such chiefe points as are necessarie to saluation For there is but one sauing doctrine there is but one way to heauen They are vnited in coniunction of mindes in true charitie and the duties of charitie especially of mutuall prayers Lastly they are vnited in the communion of one hope and expectation of promised inheritance knowing that before the foundations of the world they were predestinate I speake of the elect to be fellow heires and of the same bodie and partakers of the promise of God in Christ through the Gospell as saith the diuine Apostle Yet his Maiestie addes further that the same Church notwithstanding if any member thereof depart from the rule of faith will more esteeme of the loue of truth then the loue of vnitie He knowes that the supreme lawe in the house of God is the sinceritie of celestiall doctrine which if any man forsake he forsakes Christ which is Truth it selfe hee forsakes the Church which is the pillar and establishment of truth and by this meanes ceaseth to appertaine vnto the body of Christ With such Apostates a true Catholike neither will nor can communicate for what concent betwixt Christ and Belial Wherefore the Church will flie from communion with these and wil say with Greg Nazianzen that disagreement for godlinesse is better then ill affected concord Neither will he doubt if need be to say with the same blessed father that there is a holy contention Now that such a necessarie separation should sometimes be in the Church both wee are taught in other places of holie Scripture and that admonition also of the holie Ghost not without cause giuen to the Church doth openly declare saying Goe out of Babylon my people lest you communicate with her sinnes What that Babylon is whereout the people of God are commanded to depart the King disputes not in this place nor affirmes hee any thing concerning it yet thus much the matter it selfe doth plainly shew that whether some priuate Church be vnderstood in that place by the name of Babylon or the greater part of the whole it was before this a true Church with which the religious might religiously communicate but after it was more depraued the religious are commanded to goe out and to breake off communion Whereby it may be easilie vnderstood that not all communion with those that be called Christians is to bee desired of the faithfull but that only which may stand with the integritie of doctrine reuealed from heauen Now to come neerer to the purpose his Maiestie denies those places of S. Augustine to belong at all to him For he affirmes that all those testimonies doe euince this only that there remaines no token of saluation for them which depart from the faith of the Catholike Church or from communion with the same Church Which thing as I said before the King willingly grants But here his Maiestie desires of you most illustrious Cardinall that you would call to minde and perpend what great difference there is betwixt the times of S. Augustine and these of ours How much the Church now called Catholike differs from the ancient how the face of the Church is changed and the outward forme to say nothing of the inward For then the Church Catholike was like a citie seated vpon an hill which as Christ saith cannot be hid knowne to all conspicuous and certaine whereof no sound minde could make question Which was not as the foolish Donatists prated lying I know not where in the South driuen into some corner of the world but diffused farre and wide thorow the whole earth flourishing vnder the Emperours whose dominion extended from the East to the West and from North to South You might see the Bishops of the East and West daily communicating and when need required assisting one another For that which is written in the Constitutions of Clement that the Catholike Church is the charge of all the Bishops and by that meanes that euery one is an Oecumenicall Bishop we wonder now when we reade it neither can wee beleeue it which then daily practise did shew to be most true and may easily be demonstrated out of historie by infinit examples There were then also in frequent vse literae formate that is demissatie or testimoniall letters by commerce whereof and as it were by tokens communion was held amongst the members of the Church although farre remoued by distance of place Furthermore when it stood in neede they had Councels truly Occumenicall not as since we haue seene Occumenicall in name only but indeed assembled out of some Prouinces of Europe And in those ancient times this was the fastest bond whereby all the members of the Catholike Church were knit together in the ioynture of one bodie which bodie was for that cause very eminent conspicuous and in the faire view of all which no man could chuse but know There was one faith one state one body Catholike frequent mutuall visitation wonderfull consent of all the members a wonderfull sympathie Was any man lapsed by heresie or schisme from the communion of any one Church I speake not of any one of the chiefe which were the seates of the foure Patriarchs but of any one much smaller that man as soone as it was knowne was held to be excluded from the communion of the whole Catholike Church For whereas wee meete with some examples obserued to the contrarie that was not right but vsurpation Was any man bold to corrupt the truth a little by being of another opinion it was easie euen for a child to deprehend him Wherefore such a steale-truth being once discouered all the shepheards of the whole world if need was were raised and were neuer quiet vntill they had rooted out this euill and prouided for the securitie of Christs sheepe By these signes and markes the Church at that time was conspicuous but this happinesse continued not many ages For after that the Empire was ouerturned and the forme of the Common-wealth altered there sprung vp many new states differing as well in manners and language as in ordinances and lawes Then vpon the distraction of the Empire followed the distraction of the Catholike Church and by little and little all those things ceased which had been before of singular vse for the preseruation of vnion and communion in the outward Catholike bodie of the Church From that time the Catholike Church hath not ceased to be for it shall continue euer neither shall the gates of hell at any time preuaile against it seeing it is founded vpon Christ the true rock and vpon the faith of Peter and the rest of the Apostles but it began to be lesse manifest being diuided into many parts which as touching externall communion were quite separated from one another Then which is chiefly to be lamented it came to passe by this dissipation that there was lesse strength in the parts then before in the whole bodie to resist the enemie of mankind who is
THE ANSVVERE OF MASTER ISAAC CASAVBON to the Epistle OF THE MOST ILLVSTRIOVS and most reuerend Cardinall PERON Translated out of Latin into English May 18. 1612. LONDON Printed by FELIX KYNGSTON for VVilliam Aspley 1612. TO SIR THOMAS EDMONDS HIS MAIESTIES Legier in France ISAAC CASAVBON wisheth Health HOnourable Sir the importunate curiositie of men hath at length ouercome my purpose which would not suffer neither this answere nor the Epistle that gaue the occasion of it to keepe priuate with other scroles in the desks of the owners As for me how vnwilling I haue been from the beginning and euer since to haue it published both you well know and others of worth can witnesse who haue earnestly requested that of me yet did not preuaile But now seeing so great a man forced to yeeld vnto other mens desire let none marueile that I also haue done the same And although this Answere was not written to the end that it should be published yet if they into whose hands it shall come be equall and moderatly minded not seruile to affections there will proue no cause I trust that I should repent of publishing it or they of reading it It shall be knowne to honest men and such as be desirous of publike agreement amongst Christian people as I haue obserued the most to be on both sides that are good men and intelligent in matters Diuine that they haue his excellent Maiestie of GREAT BRITAINE ioyning with them in their most holie wish yea with most earnest desire Who although he haue iust cause to be perswaded that his words his writings his actions heretofore haue made manifest to the whole Christian world the excellencie of his minde in this behalfe yet he thought good not to despise this occasion happened also of declaring the same Who is there so void of al sense of piety which doth not embrace and admire this affection in so mightie a Prince Who so sauage and barbarous as otherwaies to interpret it or to make doubt whether this answere of the King did proceed from a vehement desire of concord Religious and wise men shall further vnderstand what manner of peace and concord in the Church this most pious Prince wisheth and vpon what termes and conditions his Maiestie is readie to make couenant For this answere is tempered with such moderation that the zealous endeuour by all good meanes to make vp peace appeareth not to be inferiour to the Zealous endeuour of defending the truth And this surely is the Kings opinion this his firme sentence that it is but vaine for such men to thinke or talke of the peace of the Church which are not afraid to separate and disioyne this celestiall chariot which ought in no wise to be discoupled That in vaine therefore doe they vaunt of the truth of their opinion who maliciously interpreting all the sayings of other men and deducting thence such absurd consequences as they list giuing bad example of such peruerse industrie doe proue themselues destitute of charitie which is the mother of vnitie That in vaine also doe they vsurpe the golden names of Charitie and Vnitie which are not willing to admit of Truth which is the foundation of pietie that is sincere It was of old excellently spoken by S. Hilarie Beautifull is the name of peace saith he and faire is the opinion of vnitie but who may doubt that that only is the peace of the Church which is the peace of Christ The peace of Christ which alone is taught by this most holy father to bee approued off in the Church it is that by which the doctrine of Christ which he taught his Apostles and his Apostles taught the primitiue Church doth remaine safe defenced and vnshaken Let those to whom it belongeth who challenge the principall places in the Church offer vnto his Maiestie such a peace and straightway the discord is ended Let them ingeniously and faithfully separate humane matters from diuine things superstitious from things religious nouelties and late-borne deuices from such matters as be truly ancient lastly the nothing or lesse necessarie from the necessary and I say againe and I crie aloud that all may heare on his Maiesties part and for the Church of England the discord is at an end Now to come vnto so great a benefit there lieth but one Kings streete as it were which from the entrance of the Church hath been beaten by our ancestors namely the free celebration of a Generall Councell wherein the complaints of all Nations may be heard wherein controuersies may be determined and peace for the time ensuing by Gods mercie bee established For the rooting of bad opinions out of mens mindes and for the reconciliation of nations diuided by dissention the Church in all ages knew no other course but this nor vsed other but this they vsed not violence nor armes But seeing by reason of the generall sinnes of vs all there appeares no hope of a Generall Councell yet it would be some ease of this euill if the great libertie or rather vnbridled licence of daily writing and publishing bookes of Diuinitie were by seuere lawes on both sides restrained For now what hope can remaine when throughout all Europe euery where euer now and then new writers come abroad such as be readie to powre oyle into the fire rather then by casting on water to extinguish the flame Gregorie Nazianzen that admirable Diuine could not endure in the men of his time the curiositie in disputing of diuine matters and in diuers places of his writings hee affirmes that the only cause almost of the euils which that age suffered not vnlike to ours now adaies was this because men void of Gods spirit commonly and promiscuously did dispute of spirituall things and conuert Theologie into technology that is make no other vse of Diuinity but as a matter of learned or artificiall discourse as they talke of other arts and sciences out of humane reason From this licence which now almost euery where beareth sway rise so many new tearmes and such diuersitie of formes of speech and sentences which daily more and more breed dissention in the Church of God Away then with this libertie of prophecying which is so pleasing vnto some of these times if they vnderstand thereby a licence of broaching new deuices and departing from the doctrine which hath been receiued by consent of all men in the ages of the primitiue Church What should I tell here of those vnsauourie and vnlettered writers which are scarcely perfit in the first elements of Christian religion which daily come foorth of those places especially where without any difference made of good or euill demeanours without respect of knowledge or ignorance to the hurt of the common good rewards are propounded vnto any one that being growne impudent can set out a booke against the aduerse part though it be full of rage and emptie of all learning But what good can be hoped for from such as make
man say you desire to haue issue Againe soone after when you declare the necessitie of approbation you reckon the choice of liuing in virginitie or single life which things when his Maiestie read he disallowed them not yet he thought that vnto both examples something might conueniently be added for vpon the former it seemes to follow that there is no other necessarie cause of mariage saue hope of issue But the Apostle S. Paul doth teach vs in expresse tearmes that they also are bound to prouide for mariage which want the gift of continence If they containe not saith he let them marrie This addition is of no small moment For who knoweth not what occasion is daily ministred in the Church of Rome of many and horrible crimes through the contempt of this Apostolike rule through the neglect of this necessarie remedie Wherefore in continent persons his Maiestie exceedingly commenceth the liuing in the estate of virginitie or single life and being by the singular mercie of God more familiarly acquainted with the sacred Scripture then most Princes are bee knoweth S. Pauls sentence of the whole matter and the examples extant in both Testaments and the rewards proposed to them that containe But wheras your Diuices doe commonly teach especially the Doctors of the Canon Law that fornication whoredome and other foule sinnes not to be named are more tollerable in Ministers of the Church then lawfull mariage and the bed vndefiled that his Maiestie accounteth a most detestable crime and most worthie of the hatred of God and men His Maiestie opposeth against all the cauils of Sophisters yea against all humane authoritie whatsoeuer that oracle of the holy Spirit pronounced by the mouth of the Apostle It is better to marrie then to burne For as a wise Captaine ought to be more afraid of receiuing ouerthrow or losse to himself then of weakning his enemie so in the election of a mans life whether he would lead it maried or single his Maiestie thinks that godly men ought in the first place to decline the transgression of Gods law and then on Gods name if any man haue the power let him vse that benefit of nature It is a thredbare cauill that England is not a lawfull Church because here wanteth the practise of such vowes But what can the want of vow hinder as long as wee are not destitute of that which is vowed For here are many Bishops and other Pastors of the Church who without ostentation of vow do abstaine from mariage and yet leade their liues chastly and saintly without any taint of common sinister report Moreouer for the Monasteries themselues his Maiestie as he is most earnestly affected vnto pietie and goodnesse would not haue dissolued them or not all of them as I haue heard him often protest if he had found them vncorrupted and obseruing the Canons of their first institution But his excellent Maiestie often wisheth that the Tridentine Fathers which could not bee drawne by the entreaties of great Kings and Princes to prouide for publike honestie on this behalfe would consider with themselues from what fountaine this doctrine did flow For whereas at the first single life was placed amongst profitable orders and counsels afterwards vowes were annexed at length men came to this absolute necessitie which now raigneth amongst you the law of God being abandoned and most vilely disgraced Now whereas in the end of this obseruation it is added that they which allow of some and reiect other of those things which the ancient Church beleeued as necessarie to saluation although vnder diuers kindes of necessitie haue no reason to affirme that they retaine the same faith and discipline with the ancient Catholike Church his Maiestie well enough perceiueth the drift of that speech He answereth therefore that he wil not extol his own Church by comparing it to a glasse without spot or to a face perfectly faire without wrinkle or blemish he leaueth such Pharasaisme to others Yet that this he knoweth euidently that if question be made concerning the essentiall markes of the Church or if you looke at those things which are plainly necessarie to saluation or respect order and decencie in the Church you shall not finde a Church in the whole world God be praised for it more approching to the faith and fashion of the ancient Catholike His Maiestie excepts none no not the Church of Rome which by new inuentions deuised for increase of superstition and for the establishing of her dominion ouer Princes and people hath manifestly turned and changed the faith and discipline of the ancient Catholike and swarued infinitly in many things from the puritie and simplicitie of the primitiue Church THE FOVRTH OBSERVATION WHen question is made touching the faith of the ancient Church there be same which doe limit antiquitie within one or two ages after the Church was founded but it standeth with equitie for examination of the controuersies of these daies to insist vpon that time wherein al parties grant that the Church was not only a true Church but then also most florishing and possessed of that glory brightnes which the oracles of so many Prophets had promised And that is the time wherein the foure first generall Councels are included from Constantine the Emperour vnto Marcion And there is the more equitie in this because there be so few monuments extant of the former ages but very many of this time wherein the Church florished So that the faith and discipline of the ancient Catholike may easily be knowne out of the writings of the Fathers of that age HIS MAIESTIES ANSVVERE THis condition will seeme vnreasonable to them which would haue the vniuersall historie of the primitiue Church concluded within the Acts of the Apostles which is but one little though most sacred and diuine book The most equall and prudent King is farre from this opinion who in his Monitorie Epistle hath ingenuously declared how highly he esteemeth of the Fathers which liued in the fourth and fifth age Neither doth his Maiestie doubt to pronounce with S. August that look what the Church hath duly obserued from her first originall vnto those times and for any man to offer to reiect that as impious it is a point of most insolent madnes For his Maiestie heretofore hath vnfainedly protested that hee approoueth of those markes of truth giuen by Vincentius Lirinensis à principio vbique semper that is from the beginning euery where and euer Wherefore the King and the Church of England in that they admit of the foure first generall Councels therein they sufficiently declare that they conclude not the time of the true and lawfull Church within the compasse of one or two ages but that they extend it much further comprising the time of Marcion the Emperor vnder whom the Councell of Chalcedon was kept But whereas in this obseruatiō you more esteeme the times after Constantine then the times going before that his Maiestie thinketh somewhat strange and indeed
This alone is now made the article of faith whereon all the rest doe depend Wherefore what hope remaines but in the goodnesse and mercie of God to whom onely it belongeth of right to cure the maladies of his Church in him let vs hope though against hope he will effect it To returne to the purpose the Instances which you bring against the Liturgie of the English Church they be these 1. They beleeue not the reall presence of Christ in the sacred Eucharist 2. They reiect the doctrine of the sacrifice of the Christian Church 3. They pray not for the dead 4. They condemne the inuocation of Saints which are in heauen Vnto these foure his Maiestie answereth in few words To the first Instance concerning reall presence IF in the sacred mysteries of Christian religion the faithfull should bee thought to beleeue nothing but that which they perfitly vnderstand according to the manner then surely they would be found to be vnbeleeuing in many things which now they doubt not but that they do most firmely beleeue That Christ our Lord is the Sonne of God the Father begotten of the Father before all worlds that the same Christ being very God did assume humane flesh in the wombe of the blessed Virgin that hee was borne of her without any violation of the virginitie of this mother that the diuine nature is vnited in the same person with the humane these things I say and the like all Christians doe make profession to beleeue of whom notwithstanding if you demaund the manner how they are done they will answere that faith in matters of Theologie is one thing and humane science is another and they will religiouslie alleage Galen who otherwaies is no good Master of religion whose excellent words in his 15. booke De vsu partium are these How this was done if you enquire you will be taken for one that hath no vnderstanding neither of your owne infirmitie nor of the power of the Creator And as for the Fathers how often they dehort vs from this question of the manner and from curiositie of explaning the manner in diuine mysteries I should be too long if I should goe about to rehearse You know the words of Gregorie Nazianzene in his first oration De Theologia You heare the generation of the Sonne be not curious to know the manner You heare that the holy Ghost proceedeth from the Father be not busie to enquire how and the same author in another place Let the generation of God be honored with silence it is much for thee to haue learned that hee was begotten as for the manner how wee grant it not to be vnderstood by the Angels much lesse by thee Gregorie had to deale with the Arrians those peruerse heretikes whose impious curiositie he goeth not about to satisfie with subtiltie of disputation but forbiddeth them to search into the manner of so great a mysterie and enioyneth them silence Now if his Maiestie and the Church of England doe vse this godly moderation about the mysterie of the sacred Eucharist I pray you who ought to enuie it We reade in the Gospels that our Lord instituting this Sacrament tooke the bread and said This is my body but that our Lord did so much as by one word explane how it was his bodie we doe not reade The Church of England doth religiously beleeue that which she reades and with the same religion she is not inquisitiue into that which she reades not They acknowledge and teach that this is a great mysterie which cannot be comprehended much lesse declared by the facultie of mans wit but concerning the power and efficacie of it their opinion is with all sacred reuerence They command those which come vnto this holie table diligently to search all the secret corners of their consciences to make confession of their sinnes vnto God and if need be to the Priest also They carefully warne the commers that they compose their mindes vnto all humilitie and deuotion they receiue the Communion of the bodie of Christ vpon their knees and they doe not onely diuide the mysticall bread amongst the faithfull in their publike assemblies but they giue it also to those which be towards death pro viatico that is for victuals in their iourney as the Fathers of the Nicene Councell and all antiquitie doe call it Lastly his Maiestie although he would haue his to abstaine from all manner of curiositie yet alloweth also of whatsoeuer the holie Fathers of the first ages haue spoken in the honour of that vnspeakable mysterie Neither doth he reiect the words of the Fathers as transmutation alteration transelementation and such like if they be vnderstood and expounded agreeably to their intention If this doctrine of his Maiestie and the Church of England doe not giue you satisfaction then what remaines but that hee yeeld vnto the opinion of Transubstantiation if he will be friends with you But that is not piously to beleeue the veritie of the thing but with importunate curiositie to decree the manner thereof which the King and his Church will neuer doe will neuer allow But his excellent Maiestie wondreth that whereas your Honour granteth that you require not primarily the beleeuing of Transubstantiation but that there be no doubt of the truth of the presence yet the Church of England hath not satisfied you in this point which in publike writings hath so often auouched her beleefe hereof Wherefore that you may certainly know what is beleeued and what is taught in this Church concerning that matter I haue heere set downe a whole place out of the right reuerend the Lord Bishop of Ely his booke against Cardinall Bellarmine which some few moneths agoe he published Thus he saith in the first chapter Our Sauiour Christ said this is my bodie not after this manner is my bodie whereof the Cardinall is not ignorant vnlesse willingly and wittingly We agree with you concerning the obiect all the strife is about the manner Concerning this is wee beleeue firmely that it is concerning after this manner it is to wit that the bread is transubstantiate into his bodie after what manner it is done whether by or in or vnder or beyond there is not a word in the Gospell and because there is no word therefore we haue reason to banish it from beleefe We number it per aduenture amongst the decrees of the schoole but not amongst the articles of faith That which Durandus is reported to haue said doth not dislike vs we heare the word we perceiue the sound we know not the manner we beleeue the presence we beleeue I say the true presence aswell as you concerning the manner of the presence we doe not vnaduisedly define Nay more we doe not scrupulouslie enquire No more then we doe in Baptisme how the blood of Christ clenseth vs no more then we doe in the incarnation of Christ how the diuine nature is vnited in one person with the humane We
to Christ but through the mediation of many Saints Moreouer some others haue openly taught that our Sauiour Christ hath reserued the seueritie of iustice vnto himselfe but indulgence and mercie he hath granted to the blessed Virgin Againe how haue they distributed offices and powers of healing amongst the Saints with wonderfull curiositie or rather detestable superstition And heretofore their suffrages only were desired that being gracious with God almightie they would make intercession for men but afterwards the world was filled with bookes concerning the proper seruice of this or that Saint and peculiar formes of prayer to be made vnto them Wherefore in place of that diuine booke of the Psalter which the ancient Christians neuer laid out of their hands which was the solace of men and women yong and old rich and poore learned and vnlearned there haue succeeded the Houres of our Ladie and Legends or rather impious and doting fables I speake not of the true histories of Martyrs and such vile stuffe And yet further as if it were not iniurie enough to robbe Christians of so necessarie and diuine a booke one of your men hath turned all the Psalmes to the honour of the blessed Virgin attributing vnto her as if there were no difference betwixt the creature and the Creator whatsoeuer was prophecied concerning the onely Sonne of God His excellent Maiestie doth extoll the happinesse of the most glorious virgin mother of our Lord affirming that she is eleuated vnto the highest degree of honour which God the Creator could impart to any humane creature he reioyceth also that the Church of England vpon set daies in the yeere doth solemnize the honoured memorie of that most blessed Virgin but the Sophisters of these times can by no cunning euer perswade him to allow or endure that Psalter of our Ladie For as touching Cardinall Bellarmine which hath lately defended it his Maiestie is perswaded that he is distasted of your owne as many as haue but any small sense of pietie Considering then that the Church of Rome is almost deadly sicke of such inward diseases his Maiestie wondred most illustrious Cardinall when hee read in your epistle that the inuocation of Saints as your men doe now practise it is the same which was in vse in the primitiue Church Wherefore his Maiestie answereth in few words First it cannot be proued that in the beginning of the primitiue Church any other but the almightie God was inuoked secondly that there is no precept in the word of God for it no one footstep of any example God onely was adored God onely was implored through the intercession of his onely begotten Sonne the one and only Mediatour betwixt God and man Afterwards was brought in the vse of praying at the sepulchres of Martyrs then began the making of apostrophees vnto Saints besides the worship of God then the making of vowes and prayers not primarily to pray them but that they should pray God Yet if these new examples had gone no further his Maiestie would not greatly haue reprooued the custome of those times at the least not so much condemned it as the abuses which hereupon ensued For his Maiestie doth honour the blessed Martyrs and other Saints which now raigne with Christ the head of both Churches triumphant and militant neither doubteth he of their continuall prayers for the necessities of the Church beleeuing stedfastly the benefit thereof but hee confesseth ingenuously that hee knoweth no reason whereby any man can promise or warrant vs that they heare our prayers and that wee should account them as our household gods and protectors Wherefore hee exceedingly disliketh that which followed in after-ages For by degrees it came to that which I haue shewed which the Church of England affirmeth to be impious in the extreame And if there bee examples extant in the Fathers of the fourth age for this inuocation as no doubt there are neither doth the King denie it yet this is a testimonie of the decay of ancient simplicitie and of an euill then growing but in no respect comparable with that which in the Church of Rome at this day is openly practised tolerated and defended Lastly although the holy Fathers did allow the custom of that time amongst things profitable or lawfull yet they neuer accounted of it as a thing necessarie to saluation which is the present argument of our speech And thus much concerning the foure obiections against the English Liturgie Now his Maiestie commendeth your iudgement that amongst all the things which you dislike in his religion you haue made choice especially of those which concerne matters of Church assemblies and diuine seruice For the communion of the faithfull consisteth much in the publike exercises of pietie and this is the chiefe bond of vnion so much desired by good men Wherefore if Christians could but agree about this why might not all Europe communicate together only granting a libertie to schoole-Diuines with moderation to debate other opinions Which were a thing much to be wished and that foundation once laid by the helpe of God much hope might be conceiued of the rest For this cause his excellent Maiestie greatly commending your iudgement herein hath himselfe likewise heere deliuered what things in your Liturgie he thinketh worthie to bee reprooued But if for the want of these foure things in the English Liturgie you think there is iust cause that they which vse it should neither be accounted nor called Catholikes then consider I pray you what his Maiestie may pronounce of the Church of Rome in whose Liturgie for hee passeth other points of your religion godly men haue obserued so many things manifestly repugnant to the word of God and the ancient Catholike faith Which things neuerthelesse the Pope had rather maintaine then reforme when the truth now shineth so cleerely And here although his Maiesty could easily rehearse many grieuous abuses in the Romane Liturgie yet it pleaseth him to name only foure which he opposeth to the other foure named by you The first is the vse of an vnknowne tongue contrarie to the precept of S. Paul and the practise of the primitiue Church to whom in their assemblies nothing was dearer then the good and edification of the hearers Wherefore the Fathers prouided the translation of Scripture into all languages and as Epiphanius noteth in the end of his third booke they had their Interpreters who if need were did translate one language into another in their readings as hee speaketh that is when the Scriptures were read vnto the people Surely that the things read were generally vnderstood this alone is sufficient proofe that in most of the Homilies of the Greeke and Latin Fathers wee meete with these words vt audistis legi or vt hodie lectum est as you heard it read or as it was read to day Which if your preachers should say were it not ridiculous when the poore people vnderstand nothing that is read out of the Scriptures notwithstanding they haue more