Rome and Romane which be particular wordes restraining the word Catholike wee are content to call it with your fellowe M. Howlet in his EPISTLE DEDICATORIE the Christian Catholike Religion or the holy catholike and Apostolike Religion of the first Instrumentes and Planters thereof as wee see set vs downe in their writinges or such like speech for the knowledge distinction and triall of our religion we refuse not We are not wedded to one forme of words in that that may be diuersely expressed as in time and with time tearmes and speeches that for a time serue men varie but we woulde auoide cloudie ambiguitie in speech if this I haue now spoken of be the true religion ye receiue embrace and beeleeue we doe so with you and you with vs that is wee agree But vnderstand withall that hereby we ouerthrowe all Poperie and Popish religion as we doe Anabaptistrie and all other false religions whatsoeuer deuised and erected by men not warranted by Gods holy written worde call ye the same Romane Italian Germane French Spanish English Scottish or what else you will where and of whome soeuer it be professed all is one either it is that I haue here shortly described or els it is false and naught The true and Christian catholike religion is not tyed to any certaine place person or time but belongeth indifferently to all the Faithful in al ages and in all places eyther therfore tel vs whether you meane by the catho like Romane religion that Religion which the faithful people dwelling at Rome helde in the time of the Apostles To whom S. Paule the Apostle of vs Gentiles and so of the Romanes wrote the epistle extant and entituled to the Romanes as he did diuers other to particular churches of y e Gentiles as y t thē was hauing yet beleeuing Iewes among them Or if you take it other wise make y e religiō you meane first agree with that religion which those Romanes then helde and were instructed in which was all one with that of the Ephesians Phillipians Thessalonians and other Churches planted by the Apostles and with ours now or ours rather is one with theirs the which is expressed vnto vs in their writinges whereto we sticke and not to the places and people or persons that haue succeeded which all haue greatly swarued since frō y t they then were Or else if you like not to call your religion to this triall keepe your supposition to your selfe as false til you haue prooued the matter for we cannot to be plain w t you nor we may not receiue the Romane religion as it is at this day and hath beene now some hundreths of yeres for the Truth much lesse for y e only truth vnlesse we mind withal to quite abandō God his eternal Truth expressed vnto vs as his reuealed will that is in the canonicall Scriptures of the olde and newe Testament which is commonly called The holy byble as directly contrary to your Romane and Popish religion at this day as white is to black Truth to Falshood Christ to Antichrist God to the Diuell wherof let that booke be the iudge betweene vs. Looke whose religion that booke will iustifie looke whose it will condemne that doe we likewise iustifie or condemne by what name soeuer it be called what coulour or shewe soeuer bee set vppon it wee must bring it to that triall It is not the name of traditions It is not vnwritten verities It is not multitude c which be the props and pillers of your Romane church and religion that can call vs from the infallible written Truth of God howeuer therefore your glosed and false supposition maye satisfie your side or serue a glosed and false religion it cannot serue this church and state you may not looke to haue it by and by receiued of the Queenes most excellent maiestie of the honourable Lordes of her priuie counsaile and other the godly learned wise of englād You might think y t could not nor would not perswade so godly and honourable personages that is meeter for the ignorant sort and fooles you must lay a better foundatiō you must bring better euidence before your Reasons can conuince Suppositions shoulde be certaine principles and euident truthes not so manifest falshoode as this is to be receiued without proofe wee can not suppose at least we cannot knowe that is not I wishe therefore ye had trauailed in proouing this captious and false supposition that after your reasons might haue come the better to their effect end of cōuincing or we seen your feeble weakenes in your cause But that you were not able to perfourme you thought best to suppose and occupie your selfe in flourishing with shew of 〈◊〉 reasons groūded on false principles rather then forciblye to prooue or to reason soundly But Aristotle could haue tolde you that in Art of reasoning thus to doe is to make a Paralogisme or in plainer english to speake it is a kinde of iugling and of false and naughtie dealing Suppose not that the Romane religion as it is at this day is the onely old religion and all other newe The religion we professe is as truer so older than your newe Romane religion As Christ his Apostles and their writings are before those vpon whom and whose writings you would haue vs to depend It may bee in some kinde that your olde vesselles be not fit to receiue this newe 〈◊〉 If the vessels breake though the wine be spilt yet the vessels perish I counsaile you therefore to bring newe vessels and newe heartes that the newe wine beeing put into newe vessels both may be preserued rather then that you abhorre and reiect the newe wine because it agreeth not with your olde leaking vessels An olde ragged coate An olde rotten tree An old decayed house c. If you will needs sticke vpon old and newe are not the best and moste to bee commended you knowe Please not your selfe therefore so much in these tearmes But leaue them and goe to the matter Let Gods booke still I say be iudge betweene vs for the thinges you bring foorth and the thinges we bring and there an end Wee purpose and hope for religion to liue and dye with that booke For your Catholikes you say there are two sortes and yet if I can iudge ought yee make three first you tell vs of such as be so wicked and their case so damnable as yee minde not to intreate of them then you tell vs of another sort of Catholikes for whome this Treatise was made to reforme their persuasion builded as you say only vppon their owne fantasie Yee might as well haue vsed your owne phrase of Conscience if it had pleased you though indeede for abusing the good worde of conscience false persuasiō or fancy were euerie where fitter for you all in your profession Thirdly you make yet an other sort of catholikes besides these two and them you call the onely true Catholikes which
ryot and complaine of the wrong and desire still that the matter may come to lawfull pleading And euen nowe os late since our new persecution beganne wee haue made vnto them diuers offers with great oddes not pretending thereby any recouery of our losses for that wee suppose to bee vnpossible but onely for the iustifiyng of our cause whereupon the honour of God dependeth and wherein wee knowe wee can not bee vanquished THus you amplifie iolilie w t similitude example your long possession as ye say of the Catholicke Church here in England our ryot also and violent intrusion vniust as you pretende which you call Law lesse proceeding You will by processe seeme to call vs afresh into the kings Bench when wee appeare your action will beare no lawefull plea against vs you accuse vs hotly M. Howlet but as good an Attorney or proctor and solicitor or man of lawe and counsellor as you are taken to bee in the Popes cause you shewe and proue nothing against vs in Gods or the Princes court we thanke God Ye suppose altogether for you say by our aduersaries confession that is for one part But wee say you say as yee are wont that is vntruly for your Church and religion as they bee at this day are not of a thousande yeeres antiquitie Some part of your corruptions may be so old we denie it not some part againe are of later time And heresies we tell you out of Tertullian doth not Newnesse so much argue as Truth whatsoeuer sauoureth against the truth that shall bee heresie euen olde Custome saith hee Againe your Iesuites a newe order of Religion instituted about fortie yeeres agoe or such such a thing seeme amōg vs at this day to be your greatest pillers and staies in this your new and strange proceeding and wee here can scarcely yet well tell what their religion is nor where it is grounded so lately though suddēly come they among vs but vpon an obscure fellowe your Pope Paul the thirde you tel vs is their foundation And in deed your Popish religion is such a confused Chaos and heape or a hotche potche that wee can not tell certainly what to make of it nor where to fetche a proper and full summe of the Popishe doctrine at this day and a confession of your fayth For leauing the Scriptures to bee the rule of your fayth and coyning vs still so many newe Articles vnder the name of vnwritten verities traditions the Churche c. Which the first and auncient Apostolique Church was ignoraunt of and referring vs for all to your Popes brest To bee playne we can finde no footing You take a similitude from a wise noble man and quiet possession of his Baronie many ages Bee as wise as yee may bee yet a similitude and example of a meaner and a more base and vile person than a Noble man of a Barne M. Howlet rather than a Baronie might fitlier serue to compare so corrupt a Church and rotten religion withall as is Poperie and the Popish Church But wee muste take suche as you offer vs. Your Prelates of the Cleargie that rule the Church are Lordes euen ouer Gods heritage they are Barons they must needes haue a Baronie No maruell therefore though in respect of thē and their vsing of the Churche yee liken it to a Baronie of a Noble man that hath many ages helde the same in quiet possession Or if you speake of the whole Catholike Churche in respect of the vnholy holinesse of the Pope of Romes fatherhood the matter is brought to a higher degree then a Noble man he is called our Lord God the Pope For quiet possession in deede I graunt yee helde that yee had in possession very quietly made as sure as you coulde not to bee vnquieted in your Palaces But a stronger thanks be to god came vpon you your god Prince to I meane the Pope Satan ouercame you took away your armour wherein you trusted c. For the vnfitnesse of your similitude I tell you first that if you liken your selues to a Noble man you must then liken the true Church to anothers and not to the Noble mans owne Baronie for that wee holde agreeable to the Scriptures that the Churche so likened can bee called no mans but Gods or Christs Baronie onely In title of lande Sir c. where prescription of time beareth great sway many ages of quiet possession be a great stay to Noble mens Baronies or others holdes especially where euidence and writinges by sundrie casualities may bee missing In religion that I may giue a further taste of your vnlikelie likelyhood and vnproper example the case is nothing like For authoritie of religion is not to bee esteemed by time saith one That which is true is not too late And y t good father again saith y e heathē say That that is first cannot be false As though antiquitie old custome may preiudice the truth But M. Howlet in going no higher for the age of your religion thē a 1000. yeeres and talking to vs of quiet possessiō of many ages since that time wee answere you first that our religion was aboue 500. yeere olde before yours came into the worlde or your Pope were hatcht supposing you kept quiet possession as you pretende nowe a 1000. yeeres For wee fetche ours from Christe and his Apostles who had lawfull possession of the Baronie yee talke of aboue halfe a 1000. yeeres before you came to possession thereof And if you will marke well those halfe thousande yeres before were the beter and more free from forgerie and corruption and therefore woulde bee more regarded But nowe I pray you tell vs how you entred into possessiō of y e Catholike Churche a thousande yeeres agoe For by inheritance once we denie that it came vnto you or by discent If there may be any lawfull conueighance thought of the best 〈◊〉 I see yee can with any probabilitie alleadge for the possession that your Cleargie euer had of this Baronie meaning thereby the true Church of Christe was that they helde the same but as Tenaunts and that tenants at will too standing vpon their good behauiour to continue or to bee cast out The Noble man himselfe the only Lorde and Baron that I may so speake of this Baronie is aliue his Baronie only may the true Church bee called If you meane that in this similitude neither yours nor any mortall mans besides Howeuer therefore you haue holden the Catholike Churche that way you haue beene but too long vniust possessors and so lost you nothing that was your owne when vppon misbehauiour you were by Gods lawfull Minister our dreead Soueraigne therein thrust out of possession of this true Church here as you were once before within mans remembrance about xl yeeres since So then this Baronie the Church heere is now the second time to Gods glory and our inestimable benefite lawefully taken from you
proue this as he onely affirmeth the same and occupieth himselfe in prouing that requireth no proofe with vs wee shoulde haue more a doe with him He is occupied in shewing at large howe bad Schisme and Schismatiks heresie and heretiks bee how to bee detested and their company shunned what punishment they deserue and haue to looke for c. But that our religion and we are such and in this case there is hee for proofe in effect muet And yet except that be prooued not supposed onely the rest serueth to little purpose For the vnitie of Christes Church we haue diligently to obserue that as it is and ought to bee with euery of vs precious so to consider again that the same is grounded in the vnitie that we haue with our Sauiour Christ the father without whom there is no sound vnitie Further we haue to note that it is called the vnitie of the spirit for that it is begunne continued and kept by the spi rit of God in spirituall and heauenly matters And these two pointes be expressed in the very textes here cited by this Reasoner out of the Gospell and S. Paule for one 〈◊〉 forme of beliefe one forme of Seruice one forme of Sacramentes and the like that this man sayth shoulde bee in Christes Churche as it is very obscurely and shortly spoken so I see no such 〈◊〉 thereof So we may haue the substance and matter for formes we will not greatly striue If there be any matter of importance we like well the synceritie of Christian religion and Apostolike simplicitie bee alwaies kept The wayght force of Christian vnity lieth in deed in greater pointes than in outwarde formes wherof ye make mention out of S Paule and may see more in the Acts of the Apostles c. Concerning the testimonies of the Fathers we graunt with Irenaee that heretikes that bring strange fire to the Lordes Aulter that is as hee expoundeth strange doctrines shalbe burned as Nadab and Abiu They that rise vp against the truth and exhort other against the Church of God remaine in hell swallowed vp with y t opening of the earth as they about Chore Dathan and Abirom They that cut and seuer the vnitie of the Church haue the same punishment of God that Ieroboam had What is this against vs why may not the same bee applyed vnto you and your doctrines and dealinges with this Church Let the Gospel and Spirit of life be the Piller and strength of the Church Let it bee the foundation and Piller of our Fayth as the same Irenaee speaketh Doe not as Irenaee sayth heretikes doe and we finde you to doe who whē they are reproued by y t scriptures are turned into the accusation of the scriptures themselues as though they were not right nor were of authoritie both because they are diuersly vttered and also because the Truth cannot be found out by them of such as know not Tradition c and you will haue little vantage Augustine also in his book or Epistle of the vnitie of the Church against Petilians Epistle helpeth you and your case very little For the question was then where the Church was whether euery where or bounde to a certaine place person and sect or no As for example Aphrica Donatus and Donatistes then Rome Pope and Papistes nowe Augustine there tyeth the Churche to no Sea maketh Christe alone the heade thereof and the Churche Christes body dispersed ouer the face of the whole earth Againe Augustine alleadgeth and prooueth also out of the holy Scriptures as none can deny the same but hee that professeth himselfe to bee an enimie to the same Scriptures Let vs not heare saith hee I say thus thou sayest thus but let vs heare Thus saith the Lord. There be verily the bookes of the Lord to the authoritie whereof we both agree we both giue credite we both serue There let vs seeke the Churche there let vs discusse our cause I will not haue the holy Church shewed by the doctrines of men but by heauenly Oracles on infallible truth of God Nowe adde your wordes that you heere alleadge out of Augustine yet so if it please you as ye take the beginning of the chapter afore you and so come orderly to your wordes here cited which are after the beginning of the chapter whole Christ sayth hee is the heade the body The head is the onely begotten sonne of God and the bodie his Church the Bridegroome and the Bride Two in one fleshe Whosoeuer dissent from the scriptures concerning the head himselfe thus doe you in making vs two spirituall heades of the Church Christ and the Pope though they be found in all places wherin there is a church to be pointed they are not in the Church And againe whoeuer agree to the holy scriptures concerning the head himselfe and communicate not with the vnitie of the Churche are not in the Church because they dissent from Christes owne testimonie of Christes body which is the Church c. These be Austens woords agreeing with that is afore that we learne to discerne and know the true Church of Christe aright by the scriptures and not otherwise And that wee learne to beginne with Christ the heade and so come downe to the Church his bodie and keepe no preposte rous order Now let the reader hardly reade and examine your wordes and iudge of the whole In y e eleuenth chapter of the same booke of the vnitie of the Churche doth Austen notably write hereof Touching Cyprian Chrisostome and the rest for the vnitie of the Church we willingly admitte that they say so as with Cyprian yee will saye concerning false peace and agreement That is no peace but warr neither is he ioyned to the Church that is separated from the Gospell And w t Chrisostome or who euer it were ioyned w t Chrisostomes works for them that will knowe whiche is the true Church of Christ There is now no way to know y e same but only by the scriptures c. The ignorāce wherof brought foorth heresie corrupt life and mingled and turned all vpside downe as Chrisostome sayth elsewhere As for vs we ioyn with those that are built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Jesus Christ him selfe being the head corner stone c. We broch no newe doctrine no newe religion we make no separation But as we beleeue that there is a Holy catholike church and a communion of Saintes so as members and partes we ioyne our selues to the same dispersed ouer the whole worlde in vnitie of Christes true doctrine and in loue and peace with all reuerence The Antichristian Sinagogue of Rome as it reiecteth vs with Christ and his doctrine so againe doe we detest and goe out from it as from that Babylon whereof mētion is so oft and much made in the scriptures In summe whether we be heritikes or you Let Christ let the worde
telleth expressely Yee may bee compelled to perfourme that ye haue promised and holde that yee haue once receiued And bringeth good testimonies against you out of Augustine You I say that haue been baptized into the fayth of Christ not of Rome nor the Popish church and hardely any one of you founde within this Realme or among you English Romanistes that being of age now leaue this Realme that haue not in the time of the profession of the Gospel here gone to Church and done other actes of our religion at one time or other in blessed king Edwards dayes now or both Againe yee know that your D. Thomas his manner in his summe commonly is after he hath obiected agaynst the truth to set on the contra ry side that he taketh to be the truth in this question after he hath out of other men obiected That Infidelles are by no meanes to be compelled to the fayth he addeth as it were of his own But of the cōtrarie side is y t which is sayd in the. 14. of Luke Goe out into the wayes and hedges compell them to come in that my house may bee filled But men enter into the house of God that is into the holy church by fayth Therefore some saith he are to be com pelled to the fayth This haue I set downe that you may see what vātage you haue by sending vs to your S. Thomas and your other doctours for indeed sir to shew you might here haue spared wel enough in your margin Omnes doct I could further alleadge to the contrary your subtil Doctor Iohn Scot who had great followers He holdeth herein that it were godly and well done If Infidels were compelled of their Princes with threats feare to faith religiō Euen against your D. Thomas that you here set vs downe You knowe or may knowe howe common a thing it is in your religion not in this Article onely to finde the Scotists against the Thomists Doctor against Doctor c. But I had rather vnfoulde my selfe and the reader out of these contradictions and braules of your Popishe wryters then sticke therein Her Maiestie besides that she simply and vtterly taketh not vpon her by force and violence to compell to fayth as though shee coulde giue and imprint the same in mens heartes though shee set forth maynteine and binde all her subiectes to outwarde meanes and exercises of religion as I haue sayde thereby shewing what shee wisheth and driueth vnto which shee also vseth her self neither sitteth shee in the conscience of any which is proper to your Pope his lawes and your religion besides that her Maiestie is free herein I say Shee moreouer vseth her selfe in this case so godly so wisely so vprightly and so moderately towards you that deserue so ill as if any faulte may iustly bee founde it is in this that some of you are not straightlier lookt vnto and more roundlier proceeded withall But her Maiestie is wise ynough Zizebutus a prince is commended in one of the councelles and in your owne Decrees and counted very religious in compelling to Christianitie This is that in summe I woulde say vnto you for answere in this matter For as much as there is no societie of people so barbarous lyghtly that liue without some outwarde exercise of Religion and God hath beautified and commended Ciuill Magistrates in kingdomes Common wealthes and Cities vnder the tytle of Gods and hath ordayned them as his Ministers for our good that we may receiue prayse frō autortie in doyng well and in doing otherwise stande in feare as who beareth not the swoorde in vayne for hee is the Minister of God to take vengeance on him that doth euill Againe forasmuch as this Image of God is in nothing more seene namely in publike persons those of Autoritie then in procuring promoting aduancing dayly of Gods honour and seruice by their power and by giuing shewing good exāple to others for which cause principally they are aduanced as on a mountain placed in Royall chaire that therefore I say those Christian Kings Queens whō God hath called to this honor to be Foster Fathers and Nurses to his Churche and people doe well and very acceptable seruice to GOD and are highly highly to bee commended and heartily and continually to bee prayed for of all for that the aduersarie on the other side is mightie and suttle not onely for ranging them selues to Gods holy and true Religion taken out of the sacred Scriptures and the outward exercises of the same but for inducing also by the wisedome and power giuen them of GOD all people and personnes subiect to them vnto the like by making good and wholsome lawes by encouragement and by feare according as the qualitie and circumstance of place tyme and person require without all tyranny and vsurpation of the roome and place of the most high God of heauen ouer mens consciences on the one side and yet without all loosenesse on the other side in omitting such oportunitie and meanes as God offereth for the benefite of the holye people the Saintes of the moste High I speake of these and of suche as are by office called to publique and high charge among them in Churche cōmon wealth euen christian Kings Queens c. Of whō thus it is prophecied The kingdome and dominion and the greatnes of the kingdome vnder the whole heauen shall be giuen to the holy people of the most high whose kingdome is an euerlasting kingdome and all powers shall serue and obey him This seemeth to bee spoken of Christ his kingdome and the time of the Gospel c. Nowe this consecrating of her selfe and her authoritie wholly to GOD and his seruice to the benefite of his Church is it and it alone which her Maiestie in this case of many yeeres hath stil doth to Gods glory her singular cōmendation put in executiō amōg vs her people growing I hope dayly from good to better And this is that also which no honest faithfull good man can iustly bee offended withall This haue I if not ouerthrowne in your opinion perhappes your bulwarkes yet sufficiently for this matter cleared the trueth I trust her Maiestie also and the state against your vniust quarrels and slanders 13 Nowe proceede I with your wordes Besides this say you as no wise Noble man after many Ages of quiet possession would suffer another to recouer his Barronie without shewinge of verie good euidence So wee in reason are not to bee blamed if wee 〈◊〉 helde the possession of the Catholike Churche in Englande for these thousand yeres by our aduer saries confession do stande with them yet and require some euidence before we consent to giue vp the same Hereto they haue shewed vs none but onely woordes and forgerie they entred into possession without tryall of the tytle they thrust vs out before sentence or proofe wee crye out of the
Humble iumble such is your religious handling of the scriptures I pray you howeuer you talke of y e sense meaning shuffle vs not out the holy Ghostes wordes phrase A man when the Apostle speaketh onely of the faythfull is too general Decerne or iudge it to be vnlawfull is put into the text by your self as is not according to his cōsciēce or knowledge The next words adioyning are also a text of your own coining In y e last of the three sentēces here cited out of the fourteenth to the Romanes where finde you in doing contrary to that he best alloweth And all these corruptions be in that one place that you would cite out of S. Paule to the Romanes It is the first text yee alleadge yee geue vs but a taste therein of the forgerie we haue to looke for at your hands if we haue not good regard to you your doinges It is not for vs now adaies to receiue things from you namely the scriptures at your handes vpon your bare credit and reporte S. James his place also somewhat halteth by your citation but let this passe M. Howlet and you iumping so close together in corrupting this text of S. Paule I neede adde no more then that I haue alreadie sayd thereof but referre the reader to my answere made to him in his place whereof if you and hee haue any shape me a good defence you wil leese nothing for quoting thrise for failing the fourteenth to the Romans in your margin Matthewe Marke and Luke for one sentence of the Gospell Iohn the 15. prooueth not that you cite it for Gregorie out of whom you tooke it citeth it fitlier a great deale Actes 9. occupieth also a roome and toucheth not this sinne against the holy Ghost vnlesse the whole had beene better vnderstoode applied howeuer you would needs set vs downe those holy writers to fill vp your margin yet might you haue spared well enough your doctors your D. Thomas is twise heere called forth Gregory the Pope is adioyned to him the place alleadged out of Augustine is sufficiently answeared by the Godly and learned brother D. Fulke It is very vnfitly applied to the multitude and common sorte suche as doe things for feare c. That Augustine sheweth is properly to be applied to captaines and ringleaders but without all proofe more vnfitly yet to such as ioyne with truth and godlines though erring in conscience is that applied which pertaineth to the leaders into error schisme 〈◊〉 but the supposition must helpe although it be no reason S. Pauls doctrine speaking of meats or things in thēselues indifferēt lawful your doctrine talking of cōmunicating with the churches wherein the Gospel of Christ is preached or abstaining from the same which is simply good or euill agree as wel as light and darknes truth falshood Ye say truly that S. Paul layeth no lesse punishmēt vpon the sinne against a mans owne conscience than iudgement damnation no more doth he vpon any sinne Be it done according to the doers conscience as you single thinges or against it for that doctrine is generall The wages of sinne is death By one offence giltines vpon all to condemnation And againe iudgement of one offence vnto condemnation c. But hee dealeth more fauourably with the parties and their persons than you doe who leaue them without all hope of pardon in this world or in the worlde to come charging them to haue sinned against the holy Ghost c. S. Paule in the 14. to the Romanes chargeth not those so farre vnlesse he be racked but that by repentance they may be renued again The matter ye talke of is but an act cōmitted against a foolish cōceite or diuellish opiniō which hardly can be called conscience vnlesse yee prooue it better than hitherto God open their eyes and geue them that be entangled therein grace to leaue it I answere you I defende not their sin wickednes what euer it be neither must ye think we equal al sinnes or make no degrees therein we acknowledge some be greater worse and more hainous sinnes then other but this is not vnpardonable nor sinne against the holy Ghost that we say For your description of sinne against the holye Ghost out of D. Thomas to be against an appropriate good thing as your schooles like to speake As we are not bound to beleeue them nor you in your subtilties So in the application ye make there of vpon your owne Catholikes and to sinne committed against conscience hardly agree you with D. Thomas who maketh that sinne to be committed of certain malice onely Againe I meruaile how you that are so addict to old doctors could to follow this opinion of others leaue the expositiō of the auncient doctors herein Athanasius Hilarie Ambrose Hierom Chrisostome and Augustine whose sentences of the sinne against the holy Ghost D. Thomas reckoneth vp in his summe And if this 〈◊〉 y t yee follow be admitted the sixe kinds of sinne against the holy Ghost that D. Thomas after the M. setteth down you had neede to looke well to your selfe that you bee not 〈◊〉 charged therewith rather then set so fiercely vpon other Besides this where your D. Thomas in his golden chaine vpon the words of Christ expressely treateth of the sin against the holy Ghost And after his maner reckoneth vp the approued doctors opinions he mentioneth not that exposition that you heere set vs downe And seemeth directly to charge you in this your application therof to be a Nouatian heretike who saide that the faithfull after their fal can not rise by repentance nor attaine to the forgiuenes of their sinnes principally they which being in persecution marke this did denie the truth And this is the woorst that I am sure euen you can will or doe charge your owne Catholikes with now who you say are to be accounted ac cording to S. Paule that is vntrue damned men in this life Or that they sinne against the holy Ghost whiche to say is to playe the Nouatian heretike Moreouer D. Thomas thus reporteth there not from himselfe alone I cannot see how euen the departing from christianitie or the catholike church is sinne against the holy Ghost and reason thereof is there rendred Againe it cannot be iudged of in this life for we must dispaire of none as long as the patience of God bringeth to repentance for what if those whome vou note in any kinde of error and condemne them as most desperate men before they end this life repent and finde true life in the worlde to come with manie other thinges which out of Augustine he there reciteth whom hee also most commonly followeth These thinges be contrary to your singular opinion against your false Catholikes And yet I suppose you will admit this if not for their sake out of whom it is alleged yet for that ye take that which D. Thomas wrote as a heauenly
euill day I counsayle you And yet I meane not so much in this world as in that to come God giue vs all his grace Amen Imprinted at London at the three Cranes in the Vintree by Thomas Dawson for Toby Smyth dwelling in Paules Churchyarde at the signe of the Crane 1581. An appendix or addition for aunsweare to the Authors recapitulation in the ende of his Treatise BEfore you conclude vp this first parte of your discourse you gather for 〈◊〉 sake to the vnlearned foure conclusions takē out of y t you haue to fore said which being falsly supposed rather then duely proued might easily haue been heere omitted But it is to the vnlearned You may not bee gaine standed You wil haue no nay You wil not nowe dispute of the matter you say all must be supposed indeede the vnlearned vnstable are easeliest seduced and brought to wrest euen the Scriptures to their owne destruction as blessed Peter reporteth The godlier learned wise wil cal you know for sounde proofe of the matter you thinke to carrie all afore you vpon your owne credite it is no reason it may not be Going to Hereticall assemblies we graunt you is prohibited Christians by the lawe of nature of God and of his true Church not to be dispensed with by any mortall man but where when and how proue you that our Church assēblies be hereticall this would haue beene proued which you put off before you had beene so rash to haue without warrāt or ground pronounced it vnlawfull to haunt our Churche assemblies What it aduauntageth your side to suppose that which you cannot proue and lieth in controuersie betweene vs I wote not but easily may one perceiue that it sauoureth neyther of trueth nor of learning which you so confidently affirme Till you can conuince vs therefore of heresie our assemblies to be hereticall which while we may be hearde to make answere will neuer bee giue vs leaue to turne on your owne heades that which you charge vs with And forasmuch as our men haue prooued Papistes Heretikes and their Idolatrous assemblies heretical giue the Pastors and other godlie Learned leaue to admonish all the faithfull to abstayne therefrom as frō prohibited vnlawfull things where you especially haue nothing to doe or not to commād at least And seeing the case thus standeth nowe betweene these two religious that of the Protestantes and Papists In the meane while till you can more sufficiently then hitherto reproue our Church assemblies let vs craue at your hands to shewe that the whole act of going to Churche is as it is of you Papistes sayde to bee prohibited also Iure diuino naturali that is by the Lawe of GOD and nature For wee holde the contrary not by Supposition as you doe but by good warrant of God his woorde reason and experience to witte that to haunt Churche assemblies is a thing 〈◊〉 on GOD his Lawe Whether we respect the olde Testament or the newe and also on the Lawe of nature as not experience onelye taken from the Heathen and the example of them that haue amongest them any exercise of Religion but reason also sufficiently teache and not to haunt Churche meetinges on the other side or vttetly to abstayne therefrom is a contempt and vtter denying of all Religion If therfore you will needes busie your selfe where you haue no cause and little thanke of autoritye for your laboure shewe eyther your selfe more religious and fauourable in speaking for Churche meetinges or prooue more substantially then hitherto the faultes wherewith you charge the same heere amonge vs especially seeing all the worlde maye knowe and iudge that our meetinges in the excercise of Religion daylye are not onelye voyde of Idolatrye wherewith your meetinges are 〈◊〉 but tende also to the 〈◊〉 and comforte of our consciences vnto the good example of other in making publike confession of our sinnes and the Christian fayth in hearing GOD his holie woorde making publike prayers participating of the holye Sacraments c. which we take to be the principall endes and chiefest vses of Christian assemblies in steede of gasing crooching crossing pyping singing and other ceremoniall fashions in vse among you For the rest whether it bee impossible to bee so that your Pope shoulde offer too her Maiestye to confirme the Englishe seruice vppon condition to recouer his Supremacie heere in Englande whiche hee is farre from and GOD so keepe him still and whether his authoritie be aboue the Scriptures so as hee may dispense with thinges agaynst GOD his Lawe or no I leaue to the Authoures that first inuented such brabbles to occupie mens heades with all Onelye this in perusing of late I remember N. Saunders an Archepapiste among you English Romanists handeling this latter question of the Popes authoritie in dispensing against the woorde of God disputeth whether the Pope may not dispence agaynst the Apostle thus mynceth hee thinges and for his aduantage propoundeth this question and hee affirmeth as one put to his shiftes therein that the Pope may doe or suffer to bee doone sometime otherwise then the Apostle commaundeth and ordereth As for example where the Apostle commaundeth if any brother haue a wife that beleeueth not If she be content to dwell with him let him not forsake her The Pope may for some respect dispēce giue the man leaue to put a way such a wife cōtent desirous to dwell with her husband and further he may giue him leaue to marry an other contrary to the Apostles doctrine and cōmaundement With which he hath authoritie to dispense though the former wife haue committed no fault against her husband after their mariage And why not I pray you when hee hath done still doth and can doe greater thinges then this whereof I enter not now to entr eate vpon this occasion particularly nor to examine Saunders cauilles and meere shifts indeede and no better The Learned know this man of sinne well ynough and the excessiue authoritie he vsurpeth and chalengeth The vnlearned I thinke are sufficiently warned before Let all that are Godlie take heede of dealing with Pope or Papistes in mariage or otherwise In the seconde conclusion you bring no newe matter but turne vs ouer to the olde and therefore I also send the Reader to that I haue before particularly answeared In the thirde conclusion it greeueth you her Maiesties Subiectes bee and shoulde bee so obedient to her godlie commaundements and therefore where obedience for going to Churche is alleadged you call it a A vayne pretence As the holie Scriptures for the grounde of our G O D his seruice were a greate blocke lying in your way wherewith you were troubled before and therevppon trauelled to inuay agaynst the sacred Scriptures So now heere her Maiesties authoritie grounded on the Scriptures and ioyning therein with the Mynisters doctrine and exhortation to call her Subiectes to holie assemblies lyeth in your way agayne and combreth you greately