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truth_n	church_n	holy_a	word_n	6,560	5	4.2187	3	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A65878	The popish informer reprehended for his false information against the Quakers meeting in reply to ... An answer to a seditious libel, as he most falsly terms the late innocent declaration from the people of God, called, Quakers, against all seditious conventicles, &c. (wherein their innocency is cleared, and herein vindicated) : unto which is annexed, a brief recital of some accusations cast upon the said people, by one H. Thorndike, one of the prebends of Westminster, in his book entituled, A discourse of the forbearance, or the penalties which a due reformation requires.	Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.	1670 (1670)	Wing W1946; ESTC R20124	15,096	24

these the Houses which he saith God put into their heart to build him it appears they are and to them he would have all compelled but herein his Popish Spirit and Principle doth appear for did not the Papists build those Houses he pleads for for their Worship as he thinks God put it into their hearts to do but can he think that in every Country where the Gentiles are called in there must of necessity be such places or Mass-houses or must the poor Ministers of Christ forbear to go into those Nations to preach where there are no such consecrated by Pope or Bishop And then must the Gentiles in those Countries be unpreached to uncalled and unconverted till such Houses are built and dedicated I hope the Reader will easily see the obsurdity and ignorance of this malicious Informer herein who also adds that is Every place cannot be taken in the general sence for then it will take in Hell where Sacrifices shall never be c. Wherein he most absurdly reasons for the subjects of this Prophesie were neither in Hell nor to come there being the converted Gentiles as he confesseth And who is so ignorant of Scripture as to think that Christ and his Apostles were confined alwayes to meet in the Jews Temple and Synagogues for did they not meet on Mountains by the Sea-side and in Houses And did not many hundreds of the primitive Christians meet together and that at such places as were not dedicated or consecrated as the Mass-houses are And did not Christ set up the true Worship in Spirit and Truth above the worship at the Temple of Jerusalem where the Jews thought m●n ought to worship and was not that Temple a Figure and where i● there any Precept or Command in Scripture for the building such another and compelling people thereto to Worship answer by plain Scripture or else stop your Mouthes you Persecutors about Religion the true Christians who are Jews inward worship God in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the Letter they waited in the Spirit they prayed in the Spirit they sung in the Spirit they had the Spirit of Grace and Supplication powered upon them according to promise And this Worship was divine and not invented nor divised nor framed up nor yet performed in the will of man What and whence then was their Liturgie Let the holy Scriptures answer And doth not the Lyturgy of the Church of England allow of the Holy Scriptures of Truth and the Example of the primitive Christians therein recorded Let Truth and Reason answer And whereas this Accuser saith touching our Diffinitions in our Postscript viz upon the words Seditious Disloyal c. That they agree very well with our Practises and that we are guilty of all either in Posse or Esse and therefore ought to be prevented Reply As this most partial and prejudiced Informer hath all along set himself in his Pamphlet as both our false Accuser and unjust Judge so herein from his own groundless and evil surmise hath insinuated a most unjust Conclusion of guilt upon us as being Seditious and Disloyal that is loving Discord and Treachery wherein God and our Country knows he wrongs us but his proof of all against the Quakers amounts to nothing farther then an envious application of an old story of David George and John of Leyden c. and to an envious conclusion of being guilty either in Posse or Esse but whether this be any sufficient evidence either to convict or prevent us we leave to the just Witness of God in all Consciences and to the consideration of all unprejudiced impartial-minded men both Rulers and others London the 3d day of the 4th Moneth cal●●● June 1670. From some of the People of God called Quakers Here follows a Recital of some envious Information and Accusations against the Quakers by H. Thornedike Prebend of Westminster-Church so called in his Book called A Discourse of the forbearance or the Penalties which a due Reformation requires WHEREIN His unchristian and inhumane Spirit and Principle is discovered and hereby he hath shewed himself no better then the Jewish Priests Popish Prelates and other Merchants of Babylon PAge 177. Saith this Prebend But now as for the Quakers we are no more to reckon them among Christians then the Gnonosticks and Manichees of old then the Mahumetans at present Reply Here is no proof of any evil against the Quakers but ●eer railing misrepresenting them for they were never of the Principle of the Gnonosticks Manichees nor Mahumetans See what they held first concerning Gnonostici or Gnosticks they are recorded for Hereticks which swell●d in p●ide by some called Barbarites by reason of their beastly life Epiphanius saith the Valentines called themselves Gnostici and that all women among them were common c. Now how most unjustly this Prebend hath compared us called Quakers to such let all that know us and our Principle judge for all such Debauchery and ungodly Practises and Ran●isme we utterly deny and abhor they more suit the Spirit of many of his own Fraternity who are owned as Sons of the Church and more justly might be compared and applied unto them who are possest with the Spirit of Whoredom among whom Whoredom and Drunkenness encrease who for all that being capable to put into Priests mouthes remain unexcommunicated And as for the Manichees it s recorded they had their appellation from one M●●●s a Heretick who called himself Christ and who said that Christ was not truly born but fantastically and that he taught that there were many Gods and that the Sun was to be worshipped and that the Souls of men went from one Body to another c. But these things were never believed nor taught nor owned by the Quakers and therefore this prejudiced Prebend's instance and comparison herein together with that of the M●h●metans against us is most false and malicious and unjust and hereby he can never unchristian the Quakers for their Christianity both in Life and Principle stands over him and all such false Accusers Preb. For they do openly own the dictates of their own Spirit to be as much the Word of God as the Scriptures acknowledging the Scriptures so far as they please Reply This is also a false Accusation for it is not their own spirits but the Spirit of God which they follow the dictates of which agree with the holy Scriptures by which Spirit of God the Revelations of the Mystery of Life and Salvation in Christ is given unto us and we have received power not only to profess but to order our conversations according to the holy Scriptures Preb. Introduce the pretences of their own Revelation where they think fit Reply This is also an evil suggestion for it is not such pretences but the Revelation of Jesus Christ in reality that by his Spirit is introduced amongst us Preb. For when the private spirit is equalled with Gods Word the last dictate as in mens

THE Popish Informer REPREHENDED For his False Information against THE Quakers Meetings IN REPLY To a most Envious Abusive Seditious and Irrational Pamphlet stiled An Answer to a Sedit●●●● Libel as he most falsly terms the late Innocent Declaration from the People of God called Quakers against all Seditious Conventicles c. Wherein their Innocency is cleared and herein vindicated Unto which is annexed A brief Recital of some Accusations cast upon the said People by one H. Thorndike one of the Prebends of Westminster in his Book entituled A Discourse of the Forbearance or the Penalties which a due Reformation requires And thou O God shalt bring them down into the Pit of Corruption the Bloody and deceitfull men shall not live half their dayes Psal. 55. 23. Printed in the Year 1670. WHereas there is extant a certain Scandalous malicious Pamphlet tending to encrease Persecution against-the Innocent People of God called Quakers without any name or Author subscribed wherein our late innocent Declaration is stiled A Seditious Libel and our Meetings termed Seditious Conventicles and we accused of Dangerous Practises c. To Which we Answer That we shall not need much to vindicate our selves herein First because our innocency and clearness from these unjust charges is so manifest to our Nation and Neighbourhood Secondly because this false Informer and Accusar hath not brought forth any matter of either proof or validity against us and because he hath scandalized our Declaration as being as Seditious Libel and so slandered us therein we may again give a hint of the nature and tendancy of our Declaration so accused that it is a Declaration against all seditious Conventicles and dangerous practises of any who under colour or pretence of tender Conscience have or may contrive Insurrections this is the Title as also in our Declaration the Worship of God in his Spirit and Power the peaceable Truth and seeking peace with all men and meeting together to worship God therein according to Christ and his Apostles is vindicated and a Testimony given against all Sedition Conspiracy contriving Insurrections as also it is judged gross Hypocrisie and Dissimulation for any to pretend tenderness of Conscience and a Religious exercise and under that colour intend a quite contrary thing as to contrive Insurrections c. Concerning which we who are called Quakers can say in the presence of God we are free and clear from all such things in the sight of God Angels and Men Thus far is signified in our Declaration Now let the moderate Reader judge whether this Testimony of ours be seditious yea or nay as this false Informer hath accused it or whether his Pamphlet and Information herein be not absolutely seditious against the Government and common good of the Nation for herein he hath accused us of Sedition for our declaring against Sedition dangerous practices and contriving Insurrections And whether herein he hath not appeared more like a Popish Emissary then a good Subject Whereas this Informer accuseth us as followeth viz Inform. The Quakers do not exercise any part of Divine Worship according to the Liturgy c. Answ. The Divine Worship is in the Spirit and in the Truth and therein we meet we wait we call upon God as his People of old did who knew not how to pray but as the Spirit helped their infirmities and this is according to the Spirit of Truth which the Liturgy refers and directs men to and the Scriptures direct us to this Spirit of Truth to follow its guidance and teaching and dare this Accusar plainly affirm that the Liturgy and Practice of the Church of England do not allow of this has not he herein accused the Church of England then what Church doth he belong to and doth not the word Liturgy of the Church signifie The publick Work Action or Service of the Church and can any reasonably confine it only to Reading Confessions of sins and Prayers for is there not both a Prayer before Sermon and Preaching also used in the Church which are not particularly recorded in the Common-Prayer-Book Besides this our Accusar though he would shew himself both a Divine and a Lawyer yet he is good at neither Law nor Gospel for the words of the Act viz. Any Assembly Meeting or Conventicle under colour or pretence of any Exercise of Religion in other manner then according to the Liturgy of the Church of England c. the sence hereof he tyes up to this saith he It must be according to the form and method there prescribed that is publick Prayer in places set apart there being in the Liturgy prescribed Forms as well for private as publick Worships c. as if he would tell us that the religious exercise that is according to the Common-Prayer is the Common Prayer it self and so unless we have it read we are hereby deemed to be under a colour of religious exercise not according to it which is gross non-sence and ignorance for that which is according to ●he Liturgy is not the Liturgy it self besides the words colour or pretence of any exercise of Religion relate to the Title and Preamble of the Act as not being the real manifestation of Worship but a Cover to carry on some contrary design or intention of Sedition or Insurrection for the Title of the Act is An Act to prevent and suppress seditious Conventicles therefore not to prevent and suppress peaceable harmless Meetings which are really for the Worship and Service of God in the Spirit and Truth The Preamble which ought to be the Key and Reason of the Law is against the growing and dangerous practises of Seditious Sectaries and other disloyal Persons who under pretence of tender Conscences have or may at their Meetings contrive Insurrections hereby the words Colour and Pretence are sufficiently explained and that it ought not to be inflicted upon people who are really of tender Consciences towards God in their exercise of Religion and Worship which we being concerned in have not in the least forfeited the liberty to tender Consciences so often promised by the King both in his Letters from Breda and divers Declarations since Again whereas this Informer accuseth us of a seditious and blasphemous Pamphlet published in the year 1664. without repeating either any Sedition or Blasphemy in it or shewing by what Author c. Let the indifferent Reader note his envy and malice herein and how disingeniously he hath dealt by us And now to prove our Practises dangerous he proceeds thus Inform. That they have been dangerous Germany hath well experienced by the rebellion of David George the first of your Sect. Such another was John of Leydon and Cobbs faction in England Answ. This Informer would make the Magistrates believe strange Stories against us if they would be but so easily drawn to dance at his Pipe and do the Devils drudgery of persecution for him as his malicious spirit would have them and if they were so credulous as to believe his

words even so they relate not to the manner of living of the Alter but to the Lord 's Ordaining as even so hath the Lord ordained that they that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel 1. or 9. 14. so the Gospel makes way for the true Minsters Maintenance which is not a forced Maintenance neither is it Tythes or Offerings for as is fully testified in Heb. 7. the Priesthood being changed there is made of necessity a change also of the Law the Sons of Levy who received the Office of the Priesthood had a Command to take Tythes of their Bretheren but this is ended as it is said there is a disanulling of the Commandment going before so this man might as well have accused the Apostle with failing to pay to God his Due as have accused us in the matter of Tythes seeing our Testimony is one and the same But this Informer shews himself to have little regard to Scripture whilst he can plead the discretion of Magistrates and imposition of Governours for things in matter of Worship which he hath neither Scripture Command or president for especially among the primitive Christians and Apostles Inform. His Worship in Spirit and Truth is but the lesser part of his due It is obedience God desires rather then Sacrifice or Worship God commands you to be obedient to Authority Answ. Let the Reader mark here how absurdly he reasons First implying a Worship of God in Spirit and Truth without obedience which cannot be for that Worship which stands in Spirit and Truth is Obedience for Truth admits of no disobedience Secondly his deeming the true Worship of God to be but the lesser part of his due and Obedience to Authority to be the greater herein he hath blasphemously set up an Authority above God and so man above his Maker for it is outward Authority his words intend but he is greatly mistaken for we in worshipping and obeying God in Spirit and Truth which is our principal Duty do not oppose nor resist any Authority or wholsom Laws which have a dependance upon the Authority and Law of God Where we said We do not meet to plot or contrive Insurrections Inform. We have but your bare word for it Answ. This is false you have more then our bare word viz. our innocent behaviour and harmless deportment evidently mani●ested through the many Afflictions Persecutions and Cruelties that we have patiently undergone since we were a People and all for the Testimony of our tender Consciences towards God therefore it is evident that we have but this mans bare word for proof that our Meetings are either seditious Conventicles or tending to Insurrection and if he were not wilfully blind he might see the contrary openly evinced by our Christian Conversation in the peaceable exercise of our Religion and Conscience Inform. It is true there is danger enough in your small meetings but much more in your greater meetings of hundreds for by lessning your meetings we may better secure both Church and State for ten or twelve can make no great disturbance in a place a Constable may suppress these but where five or six hundred more shall meet and finding an opportunity make an Insurrection may set a whole City on flames c. Answ. What danger hath this man seen in any of our Meetings either small or great we challenge him and all such malicious Informers in the World to prove any danger or hurt by us in our Meetings Besides has not he herein struck at the Parliaments allowing small meetings of four Persons above the Families besides all such as are under the age of sixteen years as i● therein they allowed of dangerous and seditious Meetings which we are confident they do not believe concerning us called Quakers And as for this Accusers judging our greater Meetings of hundreds to be much more dangerous and therefore would have them less●ed what ground or reason has he for his evil surmise in this seeing when our Meetings are large our doors being open many mixt people may come and behold us and our order that if we were of that ill mind as to contrive Evil or Sedition we could not have opportunity we should be the maddest Plotters that ever were if we should be so publick and obvious therein but the Lord has redeemed us out of all such occasions both publick and private we have given no occasion of either fear suspition or jealousy to our Persecutors in those matters it is their own guilt and envious persecuting spirits that attract fears and troubles the Witness of God persuing them for their injuries and injustice who afflict the Innocent and oppress the Poor and Needy for whose sake God will arise and plead their Cause Inform. Your antick tricks in your silent Meetings c. Answ. What antick tricks thou Slanderer and Scoffer though we have often waited in silence together upon God and received comfort and benefit therein from him by his Spirit wherein we wait and worship him And what hast thou against this thou bloody-minded Informer And what colour or pretence of Religious Exercise hast thou to inform against these harmless silent Meetings Where is the colour or pretence and what exercise provest thou therein that the Act takes hold of And what plotting or contriving hast thou ever heard or seen in any such Meetings or in any of our Meetings tending to set the City on flames And as for antick tricks if the Devil had not blinded thee and such as thou art thou mightest have made those ungodly Meetings at Play-Houses the subject of thy Information and not the innocent pious Meetings of the People called Quakers For is it not obvious what impudency antick whorish tricks and postures appear upon Stages at Play-Houses in and about the Cities of London and Westminster to draw out the mindes of People into vanity and a whorish spirit as Women without the appearance of Modesty or Sobriety in their behaviour and men dect in womens Apparel to be examples of whorish postures besides the many vain shews and sights to affect and gratifie the vain wonton eyes minds and spirits of Youth to draw them into impudency and debauchery such abominations as is a Reproach to the Profession of Christianity and a shame to the Nation And to that of Mal. 1. 11. In every place Incense or Offerings shall be offered unto my Name This Informer gives this meaning That this hath relation to the calling in of the Gentiles The Coming of Christ and Convertion of the Gentiles by his Gospel i. e. in every Country or Nation To which we say Why should we be deprived of this priviledge in our Country and Nation where so much of Christ and Gospel is profest But then he adds In places dedicated to my Name the publique Places of God's Worship his Houses dedicated set apart for his peculiar Service c. Reply But what Houses doth he intend are they Steeple-houses which were dedicated for the Mass were