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A31661
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A dialogue between a pædo-baptist and an anti-pædo-baptist containing the strength of arguments offered on both sides at the Portsmouth disputation, with the addition of a few more arguments then ready to be offered in vindication of infant baptism / by Samuel Chandler and William Leigh.
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Chandler, Samuel.; Leigh, William.
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1699
(1699)
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Wing C1931; ESTC R35977
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16,321
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29
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A DIALOGUE BETWEEN A Paedo-Baptist AND AN Anti-Paedo-BAPTIST Containing the Strength of ARGUMENTS Offered on both sides at the Portsmouth Disputation WITH The Addition of a few more Arguments then ready to be offered in Vindication of Infant-BAPTISM By Samuel Chandler and William Leigh LONDON Printed for A. Chandler at a Glover's Shop over against the White-Hart-Inn in Aldersgate-street and Sold by A. Baldwin 1699. TO THE READER BEcause Dr. Russel or some Friend of his did a while since disgrace the Press with some scraps of their Narrative stuff'd with Nonsense and Partiality nay and by its Title did delude the Vulgar with an Imagination that it contained the true State of the Portsmouth Disputation and the same how Unjust soever being Cheap hath been scatter'd throughout most parts of the Kingdom Therefore by Advice of our Brethren from various Parts we have offered so far as this small Tract would admit the strength of Arguments then urged on both Sides omitting Names and Personal Reflections apprehending this way may be most Grateful to Persons seriously Inquisitive We have also annex'd a few Arguments which with others were then ready to be urg'd had the Company 's Satisfaction requir'd and the approaching Evening admitted If this fall into the hands of the Learned we request them to remember That it is designed for Persons of meaner Capacities that neither understand Ornaments of Speech nor affect Terms of Logick If it fall into hands more Illiterate yet willing to receìve Divine Truths we request of them that they would weigh it in the Balance of Scripture and Sanctified Reason yea and we request of God that they may Sam. Chandler Will. Leigh QUESTION I. Whether according to the Commission of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Adult Believers only are the Proper Subjects of Baptism and not Infants Asserted by Anti-paedo-Baptists THE Controversy is Whether Christ's Ministers ought 1. To deny Baptism to the Infants of professed Christians 2. To Baptize those at Mature Age who by vertue of descent from professed Christians were Baptized with a small quantity of Water in Infancy The first Argument offer'd at the Disputation by the Anti-paedo-Baptists I consider last because there it will come to be more fairly Answered Anti-poedo-Baptist I prove then That no Infants can be the Subjects of Baptism according to Christ's Commission Argument 1. No Infants can be made Disciples by the Ministry of Men therefore no Infants can be the Subjects of Baptism according to Christ's Commission Mat. 28. 19. Go teach c. or Disciple all Nations c. Paedo-Bapt I deny your whole Argument and 1. I assert If they could not be made Disciples by the Ministery of Men yet this Text would not exclude them from Baptism And then 2. I assert That they be made Disciples by the Ministery of Men. Anti-Paed Christ puts Teaching before Baptism therefore it goes before and consequently Infants are Excluded Paedo-Bapt This is a weak way of Arguing The word is placed before in Scripture therefore the thing signified must go before Were this true then Baptism must go before Confession of Sin in the Adult because it 's said They were Baptized Confessing their sins Mat. 3. 6. Nay Sanctification and Preservation in Christ must go before Calling Iude 1. But the contrary is evident to all But farther Infants may be Disciples and therefore by your own Argument may be Baptized they may be Taught in their Parents as well as the Kohathites keep the Charge of the Sanctuary in their Parents from a Month old Numb 3. 28. Or Levi pay Tithes in Abraham Heb. 7. 9. Or the Israelites in David's time rejoice in their Ancestors on the Banks of the Red Sea Ps. 66. 6. There did we rejoice c. i. e. as considered in our Parents Anti-Paed But how can this be by the Ministery of Men Paedo-Bapt 1. By the Preaching of Men Parents may be constrain'd to resign their All to God and so their Infants 2. They are immediately Discipled by Men's Ministery when Parents and Ministers concur in their Solemn Dedication to God by Baptism Anti-Paed But Teaching and Learning make the Relation between Master and Scholar Paedo-Bapt The contrary is most true the Master doth care for and command the Scholar is subject in order to Instruction and Resignation of the Scholar or his Parents for him and Acceptance of the Master constitutes the Relation and by virtue hereof the Scholar is as much obliged to submit to his Master according to his Capacity before he touches a Book as when he hath learned Seven Years If Teaching were the ground of this Relation then Persons long since Dead might be our Governors Iob 8. 8 10. The former Age and their Fathers shall teach thee Nay the Beasts of the Field may be our Masters too Iob 35. 11. Who teacheth us more than the Beasts of the Earth c. We may learn of them and yet be our own Governors But Christ's Disciples are resigned to him in order to their being both Governed Taught and Disposed of by him according to their Capacity Anti-Paed Argum. 2. Paul did declare the whole Counsel of God and yet did never declare the Baptism of Infants therefore Infant-Baptism is no part of the Counsel of God Paedo-Bapt Neither ever did Paul declare That the Baptism of Believers Children ought to be delay'd till they can Personally profess their Faith therefore thir Practice being such is no part of the Counsel of God Take the Argument to your self and make the most of it 2. But I hope to prove Infant-Baptism from Paul's Words 1 Cor. 7. 14. Rom. 11. But pray Is nothing part of the Counsel of God but what stands on Record as delivered by Paul Anti-Paed Nothing and therefore not Infant-Baptism Paedo-Bapt If nothing then how great a part of the History of the Old World of the succeeding Patriarchs of the Ceremonial Law of Prophecies Gospel-History and other Sacred Matters in Holy Writ is no part of the Counsel of God The Truth therefore is Paul might declare Infant-Baptism an hundred times in his vast number of Sermons and Pious Discourses and yet the Holy Ghost might not see fit to insert it as delivered by him this Doctrine being sufficiently Established in other New-Testament Texts But farther These words were spoken to the Church of Ephesus And all that remains on Record of what he spake to them in two Years Acts 19. 9 10 11. is but the Epistle to the Ephesians and this in Acts 20. And dare any say That he never declared it to them because it 's not herein contained Here because some Anabaptists from Dr. Russel's false Narrative do report That we pretended at the Disputation that six Leaves of Paul's Writings containing Infant-Baptism may be lost therefore we will tho otherwise 't were impertinent give a true representation of that Matter The Doctor 's weak Evasions did force us to make our Answers evident beyond all Contradiction And thus we Argued If there were
up out of the Water therefore he must be Dipped P. Bapt. The Greek Preposition for Out of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be render'd From See Mat. 24. 31. Luke 1. 78. Mat. 12. 42. And those words Mat. 3. 16. may be render'd Christ went up from the Water Now I offer a fair Paraphrase of these Texts consistent with our way Iohn Preached in the Wilderness near Iordan Ierusalem and all Iudea came to him and Christ among others The Multitude being so great he goes to Iordan as he did another time to Enon takes a step into the Water those that are Baptized do the like it being Refreshing rather than Afflicting in that hot Country and there Iohn doth Baptize or Wash them by pouring Water on them and then they go up out of or from the Water which alway runs in a lower Place This is much more probable than that Iohn or the Apostles Acts 2. should Dip according to your way Hundreds it may be Thousands in a day That Person had need have Sinews of Brass that could according to your Custom bear the weight of lay down and raise up so many in so little time Besides his Limbs and Body must be soundly soak'd I am sure the words will well bear our Sense And Probability is much stronger on our side than yours Anti-P But the Eunuch is a clear Instance for us Acts 8. 38 39. They came to a certain Water went both down into and came up out of the Water P. Bapt. This Instance doth you not the least Service The Greek Prepositions for to into out of may be render'd fairly By To From. And without the least Violence the Text may be thus Translated They came by a certain Water and went both down to the Water and came up from the Water Anti-P But could not Water be brought to them in the Chariot if a little were sufficient P. Bapt. Do you think there was convenient room in the Chariot to place themselves in a praying Posture or that they were so Irreligious as not to Pray at all Anti-P But Baptism doth represent a Burial Rom. 6. 4. Col. 2. 12. Buried with him in Baptism c. Therefore it must be administred by Dipping P. Bapt. It is one thing to be Buried with Christ in Baptism and another for Baptism to represent a Burial A Person is obliged in Baptism to die and be buried with Christ to Sin and the World but it 's not necessary that Baptism should represent these In the Lord's Supper we are obliged to this Burial Doth it therefore follow that the Lord's Supper must represent a Burial 2. But supposing not granting that Baptism must represent a Burial pouring Water on the Face the most remarkable part of the Body doth represent a Person 's being under Water and raising him up represents the Resurrection Anti-P This is like burying with a Turf on the Head P. Bapt. What then A Person may be Buried as well with a Turf on the Head as Feast abundantly at the Lord's Supper with a bit of Bread and a sup of Wine a small quantity of the Element is sufficient for its Sacramental use Anti-P But let us keep strictly to the significancy of a Burial P. Bapt. Then I am sure the Baptized Person must not go into the Water to his Wast Do dead Men walk into the Grave half bury themselves and wait for the Sexton to bury their Head and Shoulders Anti-P But the whole Body is under Water when a Person is Baptiz'd in our way P. Bapt. But the Administrator dips but one half And Doth he speak Truth when he tells the World that Baptism is dipping the whole Body under Water and that he doth according to his sense of the Word Baptize i. e. dip the whole Body under Water when he dips but one half And dare he to affix the Name of Father Son and Holy Ghost to an Untruth Do you think Iohn the Baptist and the Apostles did so And if not then you have not the least Precept or Example for your Practice Is our way attended with this Inconvenience But further Baptism is designed to signify the pouring out of Christ's Blood Spirit and Blessing the application of this Blood which is expressed by Sprinkling to signify and excite to a submissive frame of Spirit Is your way so well adapted to all these ends Can any be thrust into the Spirit or Blessing of Christ or are Persons like to be so Composed supposing them Adult when striving for Life especially in Frost and Snow as when a little water only is poured on them Anti-P But many Learned Paedo-Baptists acknowledge that our way is most agreeable to Scripture P. Bapt. 1. Will you stand by the Authority of these Men in other Matters If not why would you have us in this 2. Do any of these say that to Wash is not the New-Testament sense of the Word Or Do they prove us in the Wrong We take not Men's Opinions upon Trust but Tryal 3. Who of those Authors have not adhered to that Mat. 12. 7. I will have Mercy and not Sacrifice to justify their Baptizing with a little Water in these cold Countries 4. Will not the Opinion and Practice of your Brethren in Holland argue as strongly against you as the Opinion of these Men had their Practice been Dipping also do against us 5. Will not the Opinion and Practice of so many Thousand Men great for Learning and Piety at this day argue more strongly for us than these Mens Opinion only without their Practice do against us Anti-P But all you can pretend to for your Way is Probability it may be so and it may not P. Bapt. We acknowledge The New-Testament hath not fixed the quantity of Water and therefore we must have recourse to a Moral Precept Mat. 12. 7. I will have Mercy and not Sacrifice And this carries us beyond Probability even to a Certainty which is this That we must so Administer it as shall consist with the safety of the Subject Christ v. 2 3. justifies David's eating the Shew-Bread from these words tho a positive Ritual Law were therein broken Then certainly Christ will justify the Practice of applying a little Water in these cold Countries where Life might be endanger'd by Dipping especially when neither Gospel Precept nor Example doth in the least oppose us Nay and knowing that Christ hath appointed for the strongest Christians a Sacrament as pleasant as Eating and Drinking we cannot imagin that he would appoint one so very sharp as Plunging in Frost and Snow for the Weakest I proceed to offer an Argument or two more P. Bapt. I Argue from 1 Cor. 7. 14. Else were Children unclean but now are they holy Arg. The Infants of Believers are Holy therefore they have a right to Baptism Anti-P Legitimacy is there meant by Holiness and therefore this doth not entitle them to Baptism P. Bap. Legitimacy cannot descend from Believers as Believers but from Married