and the Isralites now not of this world Ioh. 15.19 then the king thereof is not of this world as they are not of this world Ioh 17.16 aÌ„d if these spiritual lords coÌ„fesse that Chr king now of the sand aÌ„d people of Israel but yet he hath left our lord the king hâ—s deputy to make such lawes and lords over the church as pleaseth him the word of the lord is against theÌ„ â—ere is but one â—ord 1. Cor. 12.5 one law giver Iam. 4.12 over his Church Nay his Ma himself is against theÌ„ who saith There is no earthly monarch ever the Church whose word must be a law saith further Christ is his Churches monarch the holy ghost his deputy alleging luk 22.25 the kings of the Gentiles beare rule one over another c. but I shal not be so among you saying further Christ then he ascended left not Peter with them to direct theÌ„ in al truth but promissed to send the holy ghost to them for that end c. If any wishe rebellions against the word of the lord herein yet let them not be rebellious against the word of the king Oh that any thinge would prevail with theÌ„ to make them leave of these cruel courses of persecuting poore soules that desire truely to feare God and are most faithful subjects to the king and desire also the salvatioÌ„ of the soules of these their cruel persecutors who do seeke their vtter vndoeing by al the forenamed persecutions onely because they cannot of faith offer vp such worship to God as these spirituall lords comaund and the rather let them leave of persecutinge seeing the kings Ma tie acknowledgeth It is a sure rule in divinitie that God loves not to plant his church by violeÌ„ce bloodshed And if it be a law for al ChristiaÌ„s that in indifferent thinges one must not offeÌ„d another but the stronge but forbeare rather theÌ„ offeÌ„d his weake brother other wyse he wounds the weake conscience sinnes against Christ 1. Cor 8. TheÌ„ how much lesse hath any man power to be lord over the weake conscience forceing it to practice that it hath not faith in bringing it thereby vnto same and vnto condemnation Rom. 14. wee do vnfainedly acknowledg the authority of earthly Magistrats Gods blessed ordinance and that al earthly authority and comaund apperteynes vnto theÌ„ let them comaund what they will wee must obey either to do or suffer vpoÌ„ paine of Gods displeasure besides their punishment But al men must let God alone with his right which is to be lord and law-giver to the soule aÌ„d not comaund obedience for God where he comaundeth none And this is onely that which wee dare not but maintaine vpoÌ„ the peril of our soules which is greater then bodily afflictioÌ„ And onely for the maintenance of Christs right herein do false Prophets and deceivers who by that craft are clothed in fyne apparel and faire deliciously every day labor to make vs odious iÌ„ the ears aÌ„d eyes of Prince and people knoweing wel that if they had not power by persecution to force meÌ„ to dissemble to beleeve as they their kingdome and paine would soone come to nought the wickednes of which course is discovered in this writinge followeing For the manner being Dialogue-wise wee thought it the fittest in two respects First for the vnderstanding of the simple to whome especially Gods misteries apperteyne more then to the wise and prudent of the world Secondly because al the objections that wee have met with might be set downe and the playnelyer answered And because wee have faith and assurance that many wil see and acknowledg the vnlawfulnes of tyraÌ„nyzing over the conscieÌ„ce vn persecuting the bodies of such as cannot be subject wee have also thought it meet to manifest the careful estate of such subjection that they may deliver their soules if they wil be saved and also have set downe the beginning of that old and good way that Iohn Baptist Christ Iesus aÌ„d his Apostles have left vnto al that wil be saved â—nto the end of the world Beseeching that Almighty worker that he would worke in the harts and consciences of men that they may enquire for it and that out of the scriptures and walke therein theÌ„ shal they find rest vnto their soules although afflictions to their bodies Oh 〈…〉 is time for the Lord to worke for they have destroyed his law and have set vp in many Nations such worship for God as best pleaseth theÌ„ that are in authority and have power to persecute the contrary mynded Let all Gods people cry How long Lord when wilt thou come to destroy Antychrists cruel Kingdome and establish Christs meeke and peaceable Kingdome as thou haist begun even come Lord Iesus by the Spirit of thy Moueth and the brighnes of thy coming even come quickely Amen By Christs vnworthy witnesses his Majesties faithful subjects Comonly but most falsly called Annabaptists Antichristian VVhy come you not to Church Christian What should I do there A. VVorship God C. I must worship God as he requireth aÌ„d not as any mortal man requireth A. True but the worship that wee require you to offer vp is the vvorship God requireth C. If it be so I wil withal willingnes asseÌ„t vnto it but my conscience must be satisfied there of by the word of truth that I may have faith in it other wise it is my grevious sai Rom. 14.23 For I may not beleeve it so to be because you affirme it A. VVell you must go to Church othervvise you are disobedient to the law vvil fall vnder punishment C. But still remember that you would have me worship God as you pretend therefore let vs agree what worship God requireth Christ saith Ioh 4.24 God is a spirit they that worship him must worship him in spirit truth Here wee see what worship God requireth viz That wee worship him with our soules and Spirits and also that we worship him according to the truth of his word And therefore for your booke worship If it were according to truth from the which it is as far as light is from darknes yet if I cannot offer it vp with my Spirit it is not acceptable to God but most abhominable A. Well you must come to Church C. I pray let aske you a question do you seeke the glory of God and the salvation of my soule herein or your owne obedience A. I seeke the glory of God and the salvation of your soule not my ovvne obedience C. Then manifest it no by words onely but by deeds and truth which if you do you will not threaten me punishmeÌ„t to cause me to come but with meekenes and patience satisfye my conscience by the word of truth for this is the duety of the Minist of Christ 2. Tim. 2.24 that I may come with a willing mynd so shall I be accepted 2. Cor. 8.12 Psal 110.3 For if by threatning me punishment as imprisonment banishment or death
meanes for the publishinge of his gospell which he that had all power had not nor hath comaunded Magistracie is a power of this world the kingdome power subjects and meanes of publishing the gospell are not of this world A. A Goodly thinge indeed that Men must go about the Countrie to preach C. In your estimation it is base and contemptible your pompe and pride will not beare this it is more ease for you to hunt after promotion till you come to the highest in getting to be cheife Bishop of Bishops within these dominions and then cometh your fall full lowe iff you repent not but the wisedome of God hath appointed the cheifest Officers of Christs Kingdome even the Appostles thus basely to go vp and downe to and fro to preach his Gospel yea that worthy Apostle Paul preached this gospel night day with many teares openly throughout every house Act. 20. I. But if this bee thus as for my owne parte I am fullie perswaded it is then I see the high commission cannot stand for as I take it it is onely for causes Ecclesiasticall C. So far as it is over Church matters it is most vnlawfull for the comission for judging and punishing of the transgressors of the lawes of Christs Church is given to Christ the Monarch thereof a parte whereof he hath left to his Disciples which is no worldly comission or power but onely the power of the Lord Iesus the vttermost of which comission is excomunication 1. Cor. 5. A. The high commission is from the King dare you once call it into question C. If I do take any authority from the kings Ma tie let me be judged worthy my desert but if I defend the authoritie of Christ Iesus over mens soules which apperteyneth to no mortall Man whatsoever then knowe you that whosoever would rob him of that honor which is not of this world he wil tread theÌ„ vnder foote Earthly authoritie belongeth to earthly Kings but spirituall authoritie belongeth to that one spirituall King who is King of Kings A. Well all your pleading vvill not serve your turne either you must come to Church or els go to prison C. I have shewed you by the law of Christ that your course is most wicked to compell any by persecution to performe any service to God as you pretend Now I desire also to shewe you that the Statute law of the land requireth onely civill obedience and his Ma ties writings mainteyning the Oath of alligience Testifieth the same The law of the laÌ„d requireth that whosoever cometh not to Church or receiveth not the Sacraments the Oath of allegeance is to bee tendered to them which that it may be manifest to 〈…〉 that not onely I but al that professe the faith with me are most willing to subscribe vnto it in faithfulnes and truth I have thought good to â—presse it The words of the Oath Anno 3. Iacobi Regis I. A. B. do truely sincerely acknowledg professe testifie declare in my conscience before God the World that our Soveraigne Lord king Iames is lawful King off this Realme of al other his Ma dominions Countries And that the Pope neither of himselfe nor by any other authoritie of the Chu or Sea off Rome or by any other meanes with any other hath any power or authoritie to depose the king or to dispose any off his Majest Kingdomes of Dominions or to authorize any forraigne Prince to invade or annoy him or his Countries or to discharge any off his subjects off their allegiance obedience to his Majest or to give licence or leave to any off theÌ„ to beare armes raise tumults or to offer any violence or hurt to this Ma Royal person State or Goverment or to any off his Ma subjects within his Ma Dominions Also I do sweare from my hart that notwithstanding any declaration or sentence off excommunication or depravation made or granted or to bee made or granted by the Pope or his Successors or by any authority derived or pretended to bee derived froÌ„ him or his Sea against the said king his heires or Successors or any absolution off the said subjects from their obedience I wil beare faith and true allegiance to his Majesty his heires and Successors and him and them wil defend to the vttermost off my power against all conspiraces and attempts whatsoever which shal bee made against his or their persons their Crowne and dignity by reason or cullor off any such sentence or declaration or otherwise and will do my best endeavour to disclose and make knowne vnto his Majesty his Heires and Successors all treasons and traiterous conspiraces which I shal knowe or heare of to be against him or any of them And I do further sweare that I do from my hart abhor detest and abivre as impious and hereticall this damnable doctrine and position that Princes which be excommunicated or deprived by the Pope may be deposed or murthered by their subjects or any other whatsoever And I do beleeve and in conscience am resolved that neither the Pope nor any person whatsoever hath power to absolve me of this Oath or any part thereoff which I acknowledg by good and full authority to be lawfully ministred vnto me do renounce all pardons and dispensations to the contrary And all these thinges I do plainely sincerely acknowledge and sweare according to these expresse words by me spoken according to the plaine comon sense and vnderstanding off the same words without any Aequivocation or mental evasion or secret reservatioÌ„ whatsoever And I do make this recognition acknowledgment hartily willingly truely vpon the true faith of a Christian So helpe me God A. This Oath was intended for the Papists not for you C. It is not so For his Ma tie at the last Session of Parli Anno 1609. saith thus Some doubts have bene conceived anent the vseing off the oath off allegeance that parte off the Act that ordeynes the takeing thereoff is thought so obscure that no man can tell vvho ought to bee pressed therevvith c. And therefore iff there bee any cruple touching the ministering thereof I would wish it now to be cleared c. And therevpon this statute was made Anno 7. Regni Regis Iacobi c. Chap. 6. rowards the latter end And if any person or persons whatsoever of above thage of 18 yeres do now stand or at any time hereafter shal stand be pretented indighted convicted for not coming to church or receiving the lords supper according to the lawes statutes of this realme before the ordinary or any other haveing power to take such presentments or indightmeÌ„ts or iff the Minister pettie Constable or ChurchwardeÌ„s or any two of them shall at any time hereafter complaine to any Iustice of peace reare adioyning to the place where any person complained of shall dwell the said justice shal find cause of suspition that then
Lvk. 20.25 Now if al the outward man bee Cesars and the inward man too so that he must be obeyed in his owne matters and in Gods matters also then tell vs what shall be given to God If you or any maÌ„ will give him more power or authority then I give him then you give him more then his Ma tie requireth as shal bee shewed A. Wee do not say that the King can compell the Soule but onely the outward Man C. If he cannot compel my soule he cannot compel me to worship God for God cannot bee worshipped without the soule Ioh. 4 24. jf you say he may compel me to offer vp a worship onely with my bodie for the spirit you confesse he cannot compell to whome is that worship not to God Then consider you who they worship that are thus compelled say you by the King Let it well be here observed that you make the King a comaunder of such worship as is not to God contrary to his Ma ties owne mynd manifest in his writings But this you do not to advance Gods glory nor the kings honor but your owne cursed kingdome of darknes which you hold by flattery aÌ„d falshood For if this coÌ„pelled worship which is not to God were takeÌ„ away then your kingdome would fal to hel froÌ„ wheÌ„ce it came and therefore all Men map here see it is supported onely by wickednes A. I confesse the Kings authority is earthly but he is head over the Church vnder Christ C. God forbid that any mortall Man should so equallize himself with Christ who allone is Head of his church as the Husband is of the VVife Ephe. 5 23. And hath left no oâ—e-gecent in that his office for he is never absent froÌ„ his Church Mat. 18.20 and 28.20 All that any mortal MaÌ„ can be is to be a subject of his Kingdome for their is but one Lord. 1. Cor. 12.5 one law-giver Iam. 3.12 And that this is so his Ma tie confirmeth by his owne testimony in his Apologie for the oath of allegeance Pag. 46.47 But as I wel allowe of the Hyrarchie of the church for distjuctioÌ„ of orders for so I vnderstand it so I vtterly deny that there is any earthly Monarch thereof whose word must bee a law and who cannot err in his sentence by an infallibility of spiritâ— because earthly kingdomes must have earthly Monarchs it doth not followe that the church must have a visible Monarch too For the VVorld hath not one earthly temporall Monarch Christ is his Churches Monarch the Holy ghost his deputie The Kings of the gentiles reigne over them but ye shall not be so Luk. 22.25 Christ did not promisse before his assention to leave Peter with them to direct instruct them in all thinges but he promissed to send the Holy ghost vnto them for that end These are his highnes owne words whereby it evidently appeareth his Ma tie challengeth no supremacie over the Church but laboreth to overthrowe that abhominable exaltacion of that Man of sin in the Romish professioÌ„ for Christ hath given no supremacie in or over his Church to any mortall man but expresly commaunded the contrary as the place of Luk mencioned by his Ma tie plainely declareth His highnes is supreame head and gouvernor over all his subjects bodies and goods within his dominions and therein I detest and abhorr all forraigne powers whatsoever But now for the thinge in controversie betwixt you and me of compelling Men by persecutions to do service to God as is pretended wherein they have not faith it shal be manifest not to be of God in that Christ Iesus himself the onely Lord and law-giver to the soule neither had any such power and authority neither taught any such thinge to his Disciples but the contrary First Mat. 28.18.19 All power is given me in Heaven in earth Go therefore teach all Nations and 2. Cor. 10.4 The VVeapons of our war fare are not carnall but mighty through God to cast downe Holds c. Here wee see Christ hath no Worldly power nor Worldly Weapons 2ly He practised and taught the contrary VVhen the Samaritanes would not receive him goeing to Ierusalem Luk. 9. his disciples would have had fire come downe from heaven devoured them Christ rebuked them said ye knowe not of what spirit ye are the Son off man is not come to destroy mens lives but to save them And the Appostle by the Spirit of Christ 2. Tim. 2.24 Comaundeth the servants off the lord not to strive but to bee gentle towards all men apt to teach suffering the evil men patiently instructing them vvith meeknes that are contrary mynded proveing if God at any time vvil give them repentance that they may knowe the truth come to amendment out of the Devils snare c. These Scriptures need no explanation for this most evident truth A. VVell yet notvvithstanding all this it is manifest in the Scriptures by the example of Thappostle Peter smiting Ananias and Saphira to death Act. 5. of Th-appostle Paul striking Flymas the socerer blind Act. 13 11. And also by delivering Hemineus Alexander vnto Sathan for the destruction of the Flesh that punishment vpon the body may bee vsed the flesh destroyed For if it were lawful for them to smite to death the like though by extraordinary meanes then it must be lawful for vs by ordinary meanes since extraordinary meanes now failed If you say it be not Lawfull for vs then you must say it was not Lawfull for them that vvere to accuse them of laying a false foundation vvhich none fearing God wil affirme C. I dare not once admit of such a thought as to disallowe the truth off that foundation which th-â—oposties as skilfull maister builders have said But for your argument of Peters extraordinary smiting of Ananias and Saphira he neither laid hand vpon them nor threatned them by word onely declared what should be san them from God and therefore serveth no thing to your purpose also that of Paul to Elimas he laid no hands vpon him but onely declared the Lords hand vpon him and the judgment that should followe If you can so pronounce and it so come to passe vpon any do it and then it may bee you may bee accounted maister builders and layers of a new foundation or another gospell And for Th-appostle Paul his delivering Hymeneus and Alexander vnto Sathan 1. Tim. 1.20 It was not by any temporall sword or power but even by the power of our Lord Iesus Christ in his name by the sword of the Spirit 1. Cor. 5.4 And this was not extraordinary but ordinarye to continue in all churches to the end and not to destroy the outward Man as you teach and practice but to destroy those iustfull affections which dwell in the flesh that so the flesh being mortified the Spirit may bee quickned and the Soule saved in the day of the Lord Iesus And whereas you say that
as they did it by extra-ordinary meanes so you may do it by ordinary meanes if you would vse onely those Weapons which Christ commaunded his Disciples to vse in this busines which are not carnall wee would agree with you herein But if your ordinary meanes bee such as Christ never had nor any of his Disciples then it is a meanes of your owne devisinge for Christ hath al meanes whatsoever for bringing Men to the obedience of the truth A. Doth not Christ in the parrable Teach that he compelled all to come in C. I demaund of you wherewith doth he compel them he hath no carnall weapons doth he not compel them by his word VVhich is his tvvo edged svvord Heb. 4 12. Revel 2.12 Doth he smite the earth vvith any other vveapons then by the breath off his lips Esa 11.4 A. VVell then you see compulsion may bee vsed C. Yes I confesse to you such compulsion as much as you will if wheÌ„ you have done you wil walke in his steps who when the Gaderens praied him to departe he left them and taught his Disciples where they should preach the word of God iff they would not receive them that they should shake off the dust of their feet for a witnes against them Mat. 10.14 Which accordingly they practized Act. 13.51 and 18 6. etc. He never taught them to pull the contrary mynded out of their houses aÌ„d put them in prisons to the vndoeing of them their Wives and Children This was Sauls course when he was a blasphemer and persecutor etc. Act. 9.1 etc. Christ taught his Disciples To wait iff at any time God would give the contrary mynded repentance and not to prevent their repentance by seeking their blood Indifferent man I have heard you all this while and by that I have heard I see evideÌ„tly that none ought to be compelled by any worldly meanes to worship God neither can any bee accepted in such worship in that it is spirituall worship that he accepteth C. Blessed be the Lord that you see it I would not you onely but all Men did see that the sword of the Magistrate and al afflictions proceeding there from are onely vpon the outward man and cannot convert a soule from goeing astray nor begett faith it comes by hearing the word of God Rom. 10.17 And therefore is no instrument in this worke Al that the Magistrate can do is to compell me to bring my bodie for except their be a willing mynd which no maÌ„ can see their is no acceptance with God and therefore it is not Gods glory nor my acceptaÌ„ce with him they seeke by forceing me but meerly their owne obedience to Gods great dishonor and the distruction of my soule if I should so do But iff it would suffice them to bring my bodie to that they call their Church and require of me no worship I will go when they will onely not when their false worship is performed For I adhor the accursed doctrine off the Familists herein I. It is a lamentable thinge to consider how many thousands in this nation there be that for feare of trouble submit to thinges in Religion which they diseprove off C. Oh whose eies doth not gush out with teares in the consideration thereoff seeing in all that God is highly displeased aÌ„d al those vnder the judgments of God everlasting iff they repeÌ„t not A. If it were as you would have it that all Religions should be suffered how daÌ„gerous vvould it bee to the Kings Person State what trecheries treasons would bee plotted I. Indead that is a thing greatly to be suspected but if permission of all religions should be clered of that there is no questioÌ„ but it might prevaile with the King and State C. If it be not cleared of that then let al meÌ„ abhor it First it is the comaundement of him who is the God not of confusion but off peace order and therefore to be obeyed Mat. â—3 30 Let the good bad grovv together vnto the end off the vvorld Suffering the contrary minded patiently proveing iff god at any time vvill give them repentance that they may acknovvledg the truth c. 2. Tim. 2.24 Secondly if the just lawes in that behalf made be but duely executed which is that all his subjects should protest their faithful alligeance to his Ma ties person Crowne and dignity all that will not be obedient let them be disposed of at his Ma ties pleasure and you shall see no such trecheries and treasons practiced as hath bene First for all those that seeke and practice in themselves reformation in Religion sathan himself cannot tar them with the least jott of trecherie and for the Papists may it not justly be suspected that one cheife cause of al their treasons hath bene because of al the compulsions that hath bene vsed against their consciences in compelling them to the worship practiced in publique according to the Law of this Land Which being taken away there is no doubt but they would be much more peaceable as wee see it verified in divers other Nations where no such coÌ„pulsioÌ„ is vsed for if they might have freedome in their religion vnto their faith full alligeaÌ„ce to the King the feare of the kings Lawes and their owne prosperity and peace would make theÌ„ live more inoffencively in that respect I. Onely the Papists are dangerous in that some of them hold that Kings aÌ„d Princes that hee excomunicated by the Pope may be deposed murthered by their subjects or any other C. For that damnable and accursed doctrine as wee abhor it with our soules so wee desire al other may And therefore all the Lawes that can be made for the prevention of such exceecrable practizes are most necessarie But now I disire all men to see that the Bishops and wee justly cry out against this accursed doctrine and practice in the Pope and his associates That Princes should bee murthered by their subjects for contrary myndednes in Religion yet they teach the king to murther his subjects for the selfe same thinge viz for being coÌ„trary mynded to them in their Religion So likewise as that accursed doctrine is to bee abhorred in the Papists who teach subjects not to bee obedient to their princes that are excomunicate by the pope even so is that accursed doctrine of the Bbs. to bee abhorred who Teach Princes not to protect their subjects that are excomunicate by them in not affoarding theÌ„ either lawe or justice nor to beare testimony in any Court. Do not the Bbs herein justifie this accursed doctrine and practice in the Papists A. There is great difference in the persons for th one are Princes thother subjects subjects must be obedient C. Most true it is but is it not also true that Princes must afforde all their subjects justice aÌ„d equitie although they be as heathens and Publicans For iff Princes be freed from doeing right and justice and protectinge their subjects that be excomunicate
Queenes that have formerly persecuted ād destroyed the church their harts shal be turned by the power of Gods word to be lovers and preservers of the Church ād the other place Revel 17.16 proves that Kings shal make that whore desolate etc. not by their tēporal authority or sword as some say that make more shewe of religiō then you do although thēselves be now persecuted yet if kings were of their mynds would be as cruell as you for they maintaine the same thinge but by the spirit of the lords moueth the brightnes of his cominge 2. Thes 2.8 For this kingdome of Antichrist shal be destroyed without hand Dan. 8.25 onely by the everlasting gospell the true armor indeed wherewith the witnesses feight against the Antichrist As the Kings Ma tie acknowledgeth Apol. Pag. 93. A. You are so stiffe against vseing off outvvard weapons in Church matters did not our Saviour Christ make a vvhipp of smale cords vvhipp the byers sellers out of the Temple And vvhy may not wee followe his example C. In this and many other actions of Christ our Saviour wee are to consider him as the fulfiller and ender of the law as in the actiō of the Passover sending him that was clensed of his Leprosie to offer to the Preist the gift that Moses comaunded in which thinges wee are not to ymitate him for by him the Ceremonies are fulfilled and abolished and the everlasting gospel established in the which wee are to walke and it were more then foolish to reason thus Christ whipped wicked Men out of Gods Temple made with hands with whips made of cord therefore wee may whipe wicked Men out of Gods Temple made without hands with whips made of cord There is a whole some doctrine to bee collected from the Tipe to the Truth as thus Christ drive out wicked Men out of the Temple made with hands by a carnall or worldly whipp so Christ by his people must drive wicked Men out of the Temple made without hands by a Spirituall whipp evē his word which is called a whip or rode Revel 2.27 and Psal 2.9 so is excomunication 1. Cor. 4.21 An. Iff fredome off Religion should bee granted there vvould bee such devisions as vvould bread sedition inovatiō in the State C. Thus when your shewes out of the scriptures are answered then you runne to conceits and ymaginations of sedition innovation and the like thinkeing thereby to diswade Princes and ali t◠at are in authority there from knoweing els your kingdome of iniquity would fal But that it may appeare to all that you deale deceitfully herein let vs consider first the scriptures secondly behold the successe of suffering of of Religion free in other Counries And first Christ our Saviour who is that Prince of peace Esa 9.6 not of sedition hath taught Mat. 10. and Luk. 12. That he came not to send peace on the Earth but debate to devide Fyve in one house two against three three against two the Father against the Sonne c. And a mans enimies shall bee they of his owne housholde And his desire is that the Fire of such sedition should bee kindled where wee see this Prince of peace putteth difference in Religion by preaching his Gospell which some receive as the savour of life vnto them others refuse it and so become enemies vnto the truth and witnesses thereoff as they did to Christ Iesus himselfe and his Disciples and as you do to me and others Secondly behold the Nations where freedome off Religion is permitted and you may see there are not more florishinge and prosperous Nations vnder the heavens then they are I. The convocation of Bishops and the rest have made a Canō that whosoever shal affirme that the Kings Ma tie hath not the same power in causes Eccleciasticall vnder the Gospell that the godly Kings of Israell had vnder the law let him be excomunicate Ipso facto C. Yes they have so In the beginning off his Ma ties raigne when they had got him sure vnto them of the which they so much doubted as with my owne eares I heard some of their cheife followers say whē his highnes was comming into England Now must steples downe wee shall have no more high commission with lamentation they spake it then they made this Canon because their consciences are convinced that they stand onely by his power and if his hand bee turned their Spirituall power of darknes falleth to the pit of darknes from whence it came and whether it must go there being never so much meanes vsed for the supporting off it for the stronge Lord hath spoken it Revel 18. As for their sending Men to Hell as they suppose with their ipso facto excomunications iff they had no stronger weapon for the supporting of their Kingdome it would stand but a short space If Israell now were of this world as it was vnder the lawe then they said somethinge but iff it bee not of this World as it is not Ioh. 17.14 Then the King is not off this world for when this King came the worldly Israell knewe him not I. I see evidently that al are but cavels and that no mortall Man can make any Man offer Sacrifices vnder the new Testament vntill he bee a beleever and converted for he must bee in Christ before he may offer sacrifices for in Chri onely the Father accepteth vs but what say you have they not power to compell Men to come to the place where the word is publiquely taught that they may be converted C. Wel then you see that the example of the kings of Israel who had power to compel thē to sacrifice or to cut them of applyed to earthly Princes is gone as a meere doctrine of man ād not of God And for compelling mē to heare that they be converted wee can learne of no better then of him who if wee heare not wee shal have a dreadful recompence He had al power in heaven and in earth for converting soules givē vn-him and sent his Disciples as his Father sent him Ioh. 20.21 Charging thē that whē they should come into a City etc. if they would not receive them nor their word to shake of the dust of their feet for a witnes against them saying it should bee easier for Sodom Gomorah in the day of judgmēt then for that Citie or house And so th-Apostles went from City to City accordingly Here was no Temples made nor worldly power to compel al to come vnto them to heare the word off the Lord but they comaunded to goe from City to City and from house to house I In those daies the Magistrats were vnbeleevers but the question is where Magistrats be beleevers C. Christ had al power needful for that worke if Magistracie were a power needfull for that worke thē Christ had not al power magistracy is Gods blessed ordinance in it right place but let not vs be wiser thē God to device him a
power off Rome The Beast or to that Spirituall cruell power off England his Image wheresoever they or eyther of them are exalted such a one and such persons shall drinke off the wine off Gods wrath and bee tormented in fire and brimstone and shall have no rest day nor night for evermore I. Your discription of the Beast the Papists will deny so will the English Lord Bbs and their followers deny your discription of his ymage but thousands will grant both and some will deny both as the Familists who say that ReligioÌ„ standeth not in outward thinges aÌ„d therefore they wil submit to any outward service and they that do not so but suffex persecution say they are iustly persecuted C. Those enimies to the Crosse of Christ are most of them not worth enformation because for the most part they are such as do with an high hand sin after enlightninge haveing forsaken the way wherein they walked because they would not beare Christs Crosse but in that some simple soules may be seduced by them let vs a little in generall compare their opinion with the scriptures True it is that religion standeth not onely in outward thinges for God requireth the hart and truth in the inward parts but that God requireth not our subjection vpon feareful punishments to those outward ordinances which he requireth is a doctrine of devils as I shall prove And first for the outward ordinances off the old TestameÌ„t which were meerly shadowes now are beggerly rudiments Gal. 4.16 what indignation the lord had towards them that transgressed Nadab and Abihu offering straing fire which the Lord hath not comaunded a fire went out from the Lord devoured them Levit. 10.1.2 The men off Bethshâ—mosh lokeing into the outward arke which God had forbidden Num 4.20 The Lord slevve fifty thousand threescore and ten of them 1. Sam. 6.19 Ozza of a good intent leaninge his shoulder to the same outward arke which God forbad the Lord slewe him 1. Chro. 13 7.-10 Ozziah the King offering vp outward incense which God comaunded onely the Preist Num. 18.3.7 The Lord smit him with leprosye vntil his death 2. Chro. 26. Corah and his company what feareful judgments came vpon theÌ„ though he a Levite for presuming to meddle with the Preists office the earth openinge and swallowing them vp Num. 16. King Saule likewise offering vp incense in time off need as he thought the Lord rent his Kingdome from him 1. SaÌ„ 13. as also for his disobedience afterwards touchinge the fat of Amelecks cattle 1. SaÌ„ 15. How often was the wrath of the Lord powred downe vpon the Isralites because off their transgression of his outward ordinances in place person and thinges for it was a Low Levit. 17.3.4 That who so brought not his sacrifice to the place viz to the doore of the tabernacle of the congregation but offered it vp other where blood should be imputed to that man he should be cut off from among his people yea such sacrifices were estemed off God as offered to devils vers 7. the lord caused them to pronounce Dewt. 27.26 cursed be he that confirmeth not al the words of thir law to do them all the people must say so be it was God thus jealous of Moses ordinances aÌ„d is the lesse jelous of Christs must he die that dispiseth Moses law and shal he escape that dispiseth Christs vpon what pretence soever And Christ saith It becometh him all his to fulfill all righteousnes in outward ordinaÌ„ces as washinge with water Mat. 3.15 whosoever saith he knoweth God keepeth not his comaundments which are outward as wel as inward he is a lyar 1. Ioh. 2.4 whosoever breakes the least comaundment and teacheth men so he shal be called the least in the kingdome of heaven Mat. 5.19 whosoever will not heare that Prophet Chr Iesus in al thinges that he shal say vnto theÌ„ shal be destroyed out off his people Act. 3.22.23 the affectioÌ„s of the soule are to be manifested by the actions of the body according to Gods word and al other good inteÌ„ts or affections are abhominable Wee may not neither can wee Worship God with our Spirits and the Devill with our Bodies For VVee are bought VVith a price and therefore must not bee the Servants off Men but must glorifie God with our bodies with out spirits for they are his 1. Cor. 6.20 and. 7.23 And this mai suffice to satisfy any coÌ„cerning the over throwe off this accursed conceit knowing also that Christ and his Apostles and all his Disciples to the end of the world might and may live peaceably enough from persecution if this doctrine might be observed viz submissioÌ„ with our bodies to any outward service The Lord discover such Hipocrites I. I blesse God I have learned of thApostle 2. Cor. 13.8 To say nothing against the truth but for the truth and therefore when I see thinges are evidently manifested by the scriptures disirous to submit aÌ„d not to cavil But you knowe it is pleaded they have the word and Sacraments in the English assemblies C. I confesse they have the scriptures in the which Gods misceries are conteyned which is locked vp from theÌ„ aÌ„d revealed to his Saincts Col. 1.26 which they woefully pervert to their owne destruction They have also imitations of Gods ordinances as water bread and wine aÌ„d other thinges which they use after their owne inveÌ„tions which thinges maketh them boast so much of their Christianity and of their Church and which maketh them reason thus Wee are Gods people for wee have the word and Sacraments The Philistimes might better have reasoned 1. SaÌ„ 5. who had the true arke of God amongst them these have but a shewe Wee are Gods people for wee have Gods Arke and holy Oracles amongst vs. But I thinke they had no great cause to rejoyce there of in the eÌ„d No more shal these have in the end when God recompenceth al that with hold the truth in vnrighteousnes Gods dealing is not now as it was of old he now reserveth punishmeÌ„t to the last day he is patieÌ„t and would have men repent but they despise his bountifulnes and long suffering preaching peace when there is no peace I. It cannot be denyed but that the ministers preach many excellent truths and do bring people to much reformation in many thinges C. True it cannot be denyed For if the devil should come in his owne likenes men would resist him but because he traÌ„sformeth himselfe into an Angel of light therefore he deceiveth So his ministers if they should teach al lyes meÌ„ would not be deceived by them nor plead for them but because they teach many truths people receive them but first for whatsoever they teach they neither could nor should teach publiquely their moueths should be stopped if they received not that their power to teach such truths froÌ„ those the Dragon sends aÌ„d therefore none caÌ„ receive those truths from theÌ„
but they receive the devil by whose power they teach for as our Saviour saith Mat. 10.40 He that receiveth you receiveth me and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me So he that receiveth those the Beast sends receiveth the Beast and he that receiveth the Beast receiveth him that sent him that is the devil Further did not that Southsayer Balaam teach excellent truths Num. 23.24 Chap. Yea the Southsayers of th Philistines the like 1. Sam. 6. Yea those in the Gospell preach in Christs name Mat. 7.22 as many we testimonies might be manifested and secondly For their bringing off people to reformation and therein doeing great workes did not the Southsayers before recited 1. Sam. 6. shewe the Princes their sin in deteyninge Gods Arke and the judgments against them for the same exhorting them to send it away and not to harden their harts as Pharaoh and the Egiptians hardned their harts and was not reformation wrought hereby aÌ„d did not they that preached in Christs name cast out Devils and do many and great workes of whome our Saviour testifieth he never acknowledged them But let vs a litle consider wherein the reformation consisteth procured by their preachinge in drunckennes whoredome swearing etc. Moral dueties which thinges whosoever is not reformed in shal never see Gods Kingdome yet which thinges many of the Philosophers that knewe not God abounded in as they that knowe the stories cannot deny But do they teach their hearers to hate vaine inventions and love Gods Law in a generall manner of teathing they may but iff it come to particular practice you shal see what they will do do they teach any to submit to that one law giver Christ Iesus for the guydance of his Church and not to Antichrists abhominations no they will tell you you must sigh and groane till the Magistrate will reforme for you are a private person and must bee subject and iff the powerfull working off Gods word and Spirit prevaile in you to let you see that the Magistrats not reforminge wil not excuse you at the day off account but that that soule that comitteth abhomination shall dye and that rather then you will Worship the Beast or his Image you will suffer with Christ peaceably seperating your selfe from such opeÌ„ prophanatioÌ„ as neither can nor will be reformed endevouring to square your selfe both in your entrance and walking in Christs way vnto that golden read which he hath left for direction then the best off all these preachers and reformers will be hot and bitter laboring with al the turning of devices to turne you and with hold you from reformation And iff they cannot prevaile hereby then publish you in their previleged pulpits where none may answere them You are a schismatique Brownist Annabaptist and what not to make the multytude abhor your doeings aÌ„d not to followe you therein and some of them iff not all vnder a cullor procure your imprisonment and trouble by their Canonized lords or some off their Heilish Pursevants And such preachers of Reformation are the best off them all A. Oh how have we bene besottes in these thinges for waÌ„t of true knowledg and vnderstanding from the Scriptures how have I and others satisfyed our selves with these thinges in that our estate was happy perswading our selves thereoff when alas our feare towards God was taught by the inventions of men but the reason thereof was wee iudged our selves by our owne perswations and not by Gods word C. I pray you let not that seme straing vnto you that people should perswade themselves of their good estate with God when it is not so The Isralites Gods People thought their estate good many tymes when alas at it was otherwise as the Prophets declared vnto them yea our Saviour Testifieth that they boasted of God being their Father when they not so much as knewe him Ioh. 8.19 Yea when they were of their Father the Devil vers 44. The fyve foolish Virgines though their condition good enough and that they should have bene let in but it was otherwise Luk. 20 The wicked thought they did God service that killed Christs Disciples Ioh. 16.2 Mans hart is deceytful Ier. 17.9 who are more confideÌ„t of their good estate with God then the Papists notwithstanding al their grosse abhominations even so have you and I God pardon vs thought beyond al that wee were in a good estate haveing such zealous teachers that teach so many excellent truths vnder the Title of Christs ministers til wee came to examine them as the Church of Ephesus did Revel 2. then wee found them to haÌ„ve no other ministery then that they received froÌ„ the Beast and his Image which the Dragon gave Revel 13. I. Are all without exception in this feareful estate to bee cast into the laike that burneth with fire and brimstone C. Al that submit obey or worship the Beast without exception for their is no respect of persons with God So saith the Lord If any Man worship c. These worshippers vnder the Beasts Image may bee devided into two sorts First those that ignorantly perswade themselves that al that is practiced is good aÌ„d acceptable to God Secondly those that see and aknowledg many thinges to be evill which they would gladly have removed but because they cannot without the Crosse of Christ partly for that and partly by the perswation of their Prophets that the thinges are not fundamenttall and the like pretences all submit and teach Men so I. Some affirme there be thousands in England that never worshipped the Beast etc. but be careful to kepe the comaundements of God and faith of Iesus C. Such are not vnder these judgmeÌ„ts but if there meaning be of any that submit to these ordinances appointed for these asseÌ„blies such teachers preach peace wheÌ„ there is none strengtheÌ„ the wicked that they cannot returne from their wicked way by promissing them life whose reward shal be according to the reward of such false Prophets Ezek. 13.1 and Chap. 14.10 because they followe their owne spirit and have not received it from the Lord. For thus saith the lord Such shal drinck of the wine of the wrath of God I. It is also affirmed by some that in respect of personall â—races some of the professors as they are called are the Children of God and may be communicated with privately thâ—ugh in respect of their Church actions they are members of Antichrists body to whome the iudgments of God apperteyneth C. This opinion proceedeth not from Gods word but from mans vaine hart by the suggestion of the devil which that it my evidently appeare let vs a little consider of it In truth it is to say that in one respect they have Gods promisses aperteyning to them in another respect they have Gods most fearfull tormeÌ„ts pronounced against that Beast and that false Prophet Revell 19.20 apperteyning to them In one respect they are Gods people serveing him their Maister In another respect the Devils people
Church that Christ hath appointed to vsed of his as also of their ministery is it therefore Chri Church and ministery They vse also the same washing water and words in baptizing their bells that they use in their baptizing their Infants is it therefore Christs baptisme If aÌ„swere be made bells are not to be baptised I answere no more are the seed of wicked persecuters by our opposites owne confession Iff this were any thinge you should see what will followe the baptisme of Rome is Christs baptisme because they use water and these words So if any vse water and these words as the Iewes or any other of Christs adversaries as the Papists are there is Christs baptisme consider this and see what truth there is in it A. Though the baptisme of the Chu of Rome should bee â—ought yet the baptisme of the Church of England may bee good in that there bee many thousands that were never baptised in the Church of Rome C. I answere that the first beginning off the Church of Engl was made of the meÌ„bers of the Chur of Rome as is apparant in the dayes off King H. the 8. and afterwards in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne after Q. Marys death and so contynueth vnto this day and the long contynuance of it maketh it not aproveable aÌ„d the Papists theÌ„selves did the ProtestaÌ„ts prove if they have or hold any other baptisme Church or ministery then that they have from them aÌ„d shewe it and they wil recant Besides the baptisme now practized in the Chur of England is no better no otherwyse then that of Rome For the Chur of Rome baptizeth al the Infants of the most wicked that are in hir dominions and so the Chu of England baptizeth al the InfaÌ„ts of the most wicked that are in the kings Ma ties dominions and of this timber are both these Churches buylt and therefore wee may truely say as is the Mother so is the doughter And as they are in their first buylding so are they in the most of their lawes Lords Law-makers Courts aÌ„d thousaÌ„ds of their abhominations in so much as it is playne enough the latter is the very Image of the first vnto which whosoever submitteth or obeyeth or maintenieth their baptisme or any other of their humaine trash he shal be tormeÌ„ted in fire aÌ„d brimstone for evermore aÌ„d shal never have rest day nor night Revel 14. therefore in Gods feare cast away that cursed actioÌ„ of washing where was neither Chr disciple administring nor his Disciple vpon whome it was administred nor Christs body or Church baptized into and obey Christs voice in becomeing his Disciple aÌ„d to his Church that you may be baptized by his Disciple and be made a member of his body or Church This onely is Christs baptisme and of him acknowledged and ought to be off al his Disciples and the contrary to be held accursed and in no sort mainteyned or kept I. It is obiected that we must cast away that which is mans ordinance and reteine that which is Gods ordinance namely washinge and water and words C. I deny that any thinge in that action was Gods ordinance or appointment what truth is there in this to say that because God apointeth water and washing and words in his baptisme therefore howsoever water and washinge and these words are vsed that is Christs ordinance I confesse water aÌ„d washinge aÌ„d words are Gods ordinance being vsed as he hath comaunded the which I acknowledg must bee held but this vse of theÌ„ or action forespoken off being not the vse of theÌ„ or action appointed off God as the adversaries confesse is to bee cast away as execrable I Further it is obiected they repent of that which is evil and reteyne that which is good C. For the better discovering of this deceit let vs consider what is the evil then coÌ„fesse aÌ„d that they repent of say they an vnlawful persoÌ„ performed an vnlawful action vpoÌ„ an vnlawful person this is the evil Now this is the questioÌ„ whether this actioÌ„ thus vnlawfully performed may be kept and yet repented of The scripture teacheth that not onely confessing but foresakeing sin is repentance Pro. 28.13 CaÌ„ a theife that hath stolne goods repent thereof to acceptance with God and not make restitutioÌ„ to the party wronged being in his power or haveing ability to restore I would knowe how this wil be maintayned for the one is a greater theft theÌ„ thother I. It is further obiected that Ieroboams followers had no right to circumcision in their ydolatrous estate yet such as were circumcised in that estate were not afterwards circumcised when they came to repentance C. It is there foregery so to object for either they had right to circuÌ„cisioÌ„ being true Isralits although in transgression or els none had right to circumcision in the world no not Iudah For what caÌ„ be said but that because the ten Tribes were in rebellioÌ„ against God therefore they had no right to circumcisioÌ„ may not the same be said in as high a mesure of Iudah was Israels sin halfe so great as Iudahs If it bee said that Israel forsooke the place of Gods worship the teÌ„ple so did Iudah to worshipping vnder every Grene tree and Grove and high place whatsoever caÌ„ be said of the one as much may be said of thother This is a meere deceitfull forgery raised vp by Sathan in the harts of his false prophets to deceive theÌ„selves and theÌ„ that shal perish if they repeÌ„t not in that they receive not the love of the truth but beleeve these lyes and have pleasure therein concluding froÌ„ this false ground that because the Isralites in transgression were circumcised and after comeing to repentance were not circumcised againe so Egiptians Sodomites and Babilonians never haveing bene Isralites baptized in the Synagogues of sathan are not to be rebaptised as they cal it there being no comparison betwixt the persons th one being true Isralites acording to the flesh Gods people to whome by Gods appointement circumcision aperteyned aÌ„d who should have increased their transgressions if they had not performed it and thother true BabiloniaÌ„s Gods adversarys vnto whome God threatneth his judgments for takeing his ordinances in their mouethes or hands I. I see indeed there is no true proportion betwixt the persons in circumcision and baptisme for the one were the persons appointed of God to be circumcised which circumcision taught them the forsakeing of their wicked waies and bound them to the observation of the law Gal. 5.3 And they had no cause to repent of that their action thither are not the persons appointed of God to be baptized but sinned in that their action and must repent thereof by your opposites owne confession But if this be granted this question ariseth who shal then baptize after Antichrists exaltation C. For answere to this there are three waies professed in the world one by the Papists and their several successors professing succession froÌ„ the Pope and his