them selues also for auoiding superstition maie surceasse and be put awaie where the thing signified is perfourmed and sufficiently beleeued And so is Baptisme like to be quite abolished with other Signes and Ceremonies For Caluine their new Apostle of Geneua teacheth that if we were mindeful yenough of Christes Death al the Sacramentes were superfluous Caluin in â— Cor. 11. I praie God in this point I be not a true Prophete Defence 150. M. Iewel laboureth al that he can in the Defence to discharge Caluin of this perilous Doctrine wherewith I burden him in my Confutation But when he hath said al he hath lost his labour bicause he coÌ„meth not to the point and dissembleth that Caluine euer said it And so he maie beginne that matter again He shal do wel to make Caluin in Antidoto to agree with Caluin in his coÌ„mentaries vpon S. Paules Epistles where he teacheth expressely that in case of sufficient remembrance of Christes Death al the Sacramentes be superfluous Whiche I gather not out of Caluines wordes by a fonde collection as M. Iewel beareth the Reader in hande but I shew it to be Caluines owne saying and for trial I directe the Reader vnto the place Concerning the Godhed of the holy Ghoste I moued no Quarel at al. The Godhed of the holy Ghoste Pag. 90. Confutat 41. b. The proceeding of the holy Ghoste Yet in the Defence of the Apologie he beareth menne in hande that I denie the holy Ghoste may be proued to be God by expresse Scripture For these be his wordes You saie M. Harding that the Godhed of the holy Ghost can not be proued by expresse wordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye saie ye are right sure This is as false as true it is that the holy Ghoste is God Reade my wordes who wil he shal finde me true and M Iewel false Mary as touching the Article of the holy Ghoste whereas the Authours of the Apologie saie it procedeth from both the Father and the Sonne whiche is most true Some thinges are to be belieued for which vve haue no expresse Scripture in consideration of this pointe of this pointe only I saie whiche is parte of the whole Article and not of the Godhed I saie in my Confutation that they haue no expresse Scripture for it nor any of the first foure Generall Councelles and that therefore we are bound of necessitie to beleeue somewhat whiche is not expressely mencioned in the Scriptures and that an other Councel where that Article was confirmed is to be receiued beside the foure first whiche only be allowed in England by Parlament Bicause he was lothe so manifest Vntruthe vttered against me should be espied he nipte awaie my wordes not suffering my whole tale to be tolde out in whiche I doo plainely signifie my denial to perteine only to the Article of the holy Ghostes proceeding and not to the Article of his Godhed For after these wordes of the Apologie Defence pag. â—0 we beleeue that the holy Ghoste who is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not create not begotten but proceeding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto menne and vnspeakeable c. In my Confutation I saie thus As we acknowledge this Article to be true CoÌ„futatioÌ„ fol. 41. b. and Catholique so we demaund of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most auctoritie Other Conucels to be allovved of necessitie besides the 4. First We are sure they haue not Therefore we doo them to vnderstand and if they heare vs not we aduertise the readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truth necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other CouÌ„celles be to be receiued besides the foure first whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * This much betvvene the tvvo starres M. Ievv nipt avvaie from the rest as that wherein this pointe touching the proceeding of the holy Ghost hath bene defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Churche when vpon a newe doubte rising an olde Truth is by later Publications declared Likewise those Councelles in whiche the doctrine hath ben defined by the Churche concerning the Two Willes and Operations of Christe whiche who so euer beleeueth not or at least refuseth to beleeue is not to be takeÌ„ for a Christian man If these Councelles be denied al these things shal come in doubt againe and if these be receiued then why should not al the reste that be vniuersal Councelles be also receiued which the Church hath allowed * Thus I saie there Iudge now good Reader whether I denie in that place that the holy Ghostes Godhed maie be proued by expresse wordes of Scripture wherewith he chargeth me in the Defence and whether this be a seeking of Quarelles against him for that he mainteineth the Proceeding and the Godhed of the holy Ghoste as he chargeth me in his Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie Likewise it is an immoderate lye where he saith I seeke Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the Faith of the holy and Glorious Trinitie Pitie it were I should be suffred to tread on Gods earth if I quarelled with any man for that he mainteineth that holy Quarel I professe my selfe bounde to mainteine that Faith with al my witte and learning and to be ready therein to spende my bloude to the last droppe Neither can I seeme to pike Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the General and Catholique professioÌ„ of the Common Creede for so should I proue my selfe an ennemie to the Faith As thus to doo it were a hainous crime so to burden me therewith in a publique Write in a printed Booke set forth for euery man to reade in a solemne Epistle Dedicatorie to a Prince and to suche a Prince the slaunder is hainous wicked and impudent Howbeit As I allow and approue the Confession of their beleefe touching the Trinitie confessing it to conteine true and Catholique doctrine so I seeme better to like of the olde accustomed manner of vtterance of the beleefe And in deede emong Christian menne when this high point of our Faith concerning the blessed Trinitie is by a publique Confession to be taught it is not yenough to vtter some parte of our beleefe whiche is true but also it behoueth vs to vtter the whole truthe and to vse suche fourme of wordes as hathe benne vsed and allowed by the Churche from the beginning What I meane and how reasonably herein I haue spoken by these my wordes vnto the indifferent Reader it shal appeare Confut. 39. b. But what fault finde ye in this confession of our Faith saith this defender Sir the first parte of your Confession wherein you vtter your Beleefe touching the Trinitie conteineth true and Catholique
iudgement and minde touching obedience to princes and that in a booke dedicated and offred to be read euen of the Quenes Maiestie her selfe Confut. 15. a. Among other thinges thus I saie in my Confutation of the Apologie It standeth not with Goddes promises made to the Church touching his being with the Church al daies to the worldes ende and the holy Ghostes remaining with it Math. 28. Iohan. 14. the spirite of Truthe for euer that he should suffer his Churche to continewe in Darkenes and lacke of Truthe these thousand yeres past and now at the later daies to reuele the truthe of his Gospel by Apostates Vowebreakers Churcherobbers and suche others most vnlike to the Apostles Hereunto thus answereth M. Iewel Iewel pag. 32. You saie it standeth not vvith Gods promise to forsake his Churche a thousand yeres It is muche for you M. Harding openly to breake Gods cōmaundementes to defile his holy Sanctuarie to turne light into Darckenesse and Darckenesse into light and yet neuerthelesse to binde him too his promise Harding Goddes promise being infallible the Churche neuer erreth Se◠good Reader The. 7. Chapt. how absurdely and wretchedly M. Iewel answereth to this most euident and inuincible argument taken out of holy scripture I reason thus God promiseth he wil neuer Math. 28. no not one daie forsake his Churche Ergo if he forsooke it a thousand yeres as these menne tel vs he broke his promise M. Iewel answereth by a lewde kinde of Sophistrie called Petitio principij Petitio Principij that is the bringing forthe for proufe the thing it selfe whiche he ought to proue and whiche chiefely lieth in question and whiche wil neuer be graunted bicause it can neuer be proued That thing I saie he bringeth forth for a proufe and procedeth thereupon as vpon a matter vndoubted and graunted You M. Harding saith he haue broken Gods commaundementes you haue defiled his holy Sanctuarie c. Ergo you ought not to binde God to his promise This Antecedent or former proposition is the thing whiche he shoulde specially haue proued and then in Gods name he might thereof haue cōcluded what he coulde Now to bring it for proufe it selfe in respecte of true doctrine being most in question and vtterly denied by vs it is a lewde kinde of reasoning Againe beholde good Reader how he ouerturneth the Argument taken out of Gods worde I reason thus God hath promised his Churche should neuer erre Ergo it hath not erred these thousand yeres past he answereth The Church by our defaulte hath erred For we saith he haue turned light into Darckenesse c. Ergo God was not bounde to his promise What meane you M. Iewel As though God promising that his Churche should not erre prouided not also suche meanes whereby to preserue it from errour As though Gods promise depended of vs and of our wel doing As though any power of man or the worlde were hable to frustrate Gods promise As though if any suche power should haue come as you imagine the Popes power to haue darckened Christes Gospel Christe could not or would not haue foresene it or foreseing it would yet notwithstanding promise that Al daies he would be with his Churche Math. 28. Esaie 59. Iohn 14. and againe that the spirite of Truthe should assiste it for euer Thinke you M. Iewel that Christe our Sauiour forsawe not the Ruine or Darckenesse of his Churche of whiche so blasphemously you affirme Or thinke you that foreseing such an vniuersal Darckenesse to come and that for the space of so many hundred yeres together he would neuerthelesse haue said The Churches errour of a thousand yeres and the foreknovvledge of Christ can not stand together onlesse vve make Christe false of his promise as he said and haue so assuredly promised vnto his Apostles and in them vnto their Successours the perpetual assistance of the holy Ghoste the spirite of truthe with his Churche How could suche foreknowledge of Christe and suche a promise stand together Choose M. Iewel which you wil. The one of these you must of necessitie graunte that either Christe forsawe not the great Darckenesse to come whiche you saie you doo see and so you see more then Christe God and man euer sawe or foresawe or that Christe promised one thing and intended to performe an other thing He promised Al daies and for euer but intended to performe only fiue hundred yeres at the beginning and after the leape of a thousand yeres to graunte certaine yeres moe God knoweth how many O haynous blasphemie whereby Christe the Sonne of God the wisdome of his Father is proued either to haue ben ignorant of that whiche Protestantes knowe or elles to haue ben false of his promise But what neede many wordes M. Iewel him selfe immediatly after his former wordes to his owne condemnation saith Al menne be liers but God only is true Psal 50. 2. Tim. 2. and preuaileth when he is iudged God knoweth his owne Christe wil be euermore with his Churche That the light of truth hath not ben put out in the Churche yea although the whole Churche of Rome conspire against him Al this is true and the same doth euidently condemne you and your Religion Al menne be liers Protestantes for example whiche saie that these thousand yeres the Church hath ben corrupted and light hath ben turned into Darknesse God only is true Christes worde is true the Light of faith hath not benne turned into Darckenesse these thousand yeres nor any one yere at al onlesse Darckenesse and the Spirite of truth maie dwel together God knoweth his owne The Churche is his therefore he knoweth his Churche And bicause it is built vpon a hil it is euer sene and is neuer vnknowen Math. 5. Math. vlt. Christe wil be euermore with his Churche But with your Congregation or Synagog how shal I cal it he hath not ben these many hundred yeres for you saie in your Apologie The Pope hath blinded the whole worlde many hundred yeres and in this your Defence you saie againe that when Doctour Luther beganne to Publish the Gospel of Christe there was a general quietnesse suche as is in the night when folke be a sleepe c. Ergo your companie is not the Churche Let vs see vvhat you can ansvver to this argumēt M. Ievv Marke the Argument I require you and auoide it if you be hable To repete it once againe thus we saie Christe promiseth euermore to be with his Churche but Christe hath not ben euer more with you and your fellowes Ergo you and your fellowes are not the Churche The maior is true not only bicause it is Christes promise but also by your owne Confession The minor you confesse also in your Apologie it resteth ye discharge your selfe of the Conclusion Touching the minor the Pope you saie blinded the whole worlde many hundred yeres Then in those so many hundred yeres no man saw the light where then were they
witnesse Touching faith and doctrine of beleefe the first fiue hundred yeres no more vvorth then the thousand yeres that folovved But in respect of faith and the necessarie doctrine of our saluation it is a manifest blasphemie to saie that the first fiue hundred yeres are more worthe then the thousand that folowed For this assertion importeth that Christe assisted his Churche the first fiue hundred yeres absolutely and perfitely so that then the Pastours and Doctours of the Churches erred not in faith and doctrine but in the later thousand yeres the Churche was not so assisted of Christe and of the holy Ghost the Spirite of Truth but rather in suche wise neglected and forsaken as Idolatrie superstition yea palpable darkenes ouercame and preuailed And thus you M. Iewel who saie before Christ wil be with his Church euermore saie nowe otherwise that these thousand yeres are litle worth which is as much to saie as that Christes special prouidence hath failed his Churche after the first fiue hundred yeres And so shal his promise of his euerlasting assistance so oftentimes auouched in the holy Scriptures be founde to faile But Al menne be liers and God is true The promise of Christe the sonne of God is infallible The Churche therefore in no age or time wanted the assistance of Christe nor of the holy Ghost the Spirite of Truthe The Churche of Rome of whiche you speake so villanously neither hath preuailed The Churche of Rome the onely and true Church of Christe neither could possibly preuaile against Christe It hath preuailed against al Heresies and therefore no other Churche in the worlde appearing al these thousand yeres then the Churche of Rome by which worde I coÌ„prehende al nations agreing with the faith of that Churche that only was the true Churche of Christe and is to this daie and according vnto Christes promise shal endure to the ende of the worlde For as we shal not haue any other Christ so neither shal we haue any other Faith nor any other Church Iewel pag. 36. That the Princes and Free Cities of Germanie euer persecuted vs it is vtterly vntrue and like the rest of your tales None of them al no not one vvould euer suffer the same Doctrine of ours to be condemned Harding That the Sacramentaries haue ben persecuted by the Princes of Germanie and by their Doctours and by the free Cities The. 9. Chapt. This is so grosse and so palpable a lye that no man bâ—â— you M. Iewel would euer I thinke haue had the harte to affirme it so constantly and that in printe First Carolostadius Carolostadius the first professour in Saxonie of your Sacramentarie heresie was bannished out of al Saxonie by the procurement of Luther in the yere 1525. as witnesseth your owne frende Iohn Sleidan Sleidan Lib. 5. Histor Againe the yonger Princes of Saxonie and the Counteis of Mansfeld in the yere 1559. published eche of them a Write wherein they recken vp and condemne the one nine Lib. contra 9. Sectas Lib. coÌ„tra 11. Sectas Lauatherus in histor coÌ„tra Sacrament the other eleuen Sectes of the whiche your Secte of the Sacramentaries by name is one This is yet extant to be seene in print and can not be denied Lauatherus a Sacramentarie him selfe reporteth it Thirdly in the yere 1561. though in the meeting at Numburg by the intreatie of certaine Princes the Zuinglians were not condemned generally in al Germanie as the Princes of the Confession of Ausburg would openly and solemnely haue done yet in the same yere afterward in a Diet holden at Luneburg Lauatherus ibideÌ„ Surius FraÌ„ciscus Philippus in histor Albert of Hardenburg a great Zuinglian was openly condemned for an heretike Last of al in the same yere 1561. the Frenche Caluinistes were coÌ„maunded and forced by the Magistrates of FraÌ„kford either to practise no more their manner and order of religion there or to departe the Citie Yet you saie you were neuer persecuted either of the PriÌ„ces or of the free Cities in Germanie What shal I here speake of your brethren at Andwerpe whom the Martinistes for so they cal the Lutherans ioining with the Catholiques and putting them selues in armes draue awaie and compelled to flee the Citie If ye beleeue not me beleeue their flight beleeue your felow minister Hermannus the Predicant that of late was in Norwiche and now as I heare saie is driuen from thence I know not whither what fauour he and his felowes founde at the handes of the Martinistes Iewel Pag. 37. In deede certaine tovvnes of Germanie subiecte to Bishoppes in outvvarde vsages of their Churches remaine stil as they vvere before Yet neuerthelesse vvhere the Churches are popish the people of al sortes are Protestantes Harding This is a sensible lie and a mere sclaunder Great partes of Germanie yet remaining vvhole and Catholique The people of al sortes in Germanie where the Churches remaine Catholique do in suche numbers resorte vnto the seruice haunt the Sermons and frequent the Sacramentes as al that haue benne at Wormes at Spires at Augusta at Ingolstadt at Vratislauia and suche other Cities can beare witnesse that a man to saie as you saie must nedes proue him selfe gilty either of purposed lying as speaking against a knowen truthe or of a malicious iudgement as to iudge of mennes hartes contrary to their whole outwarde life and behauiour For by this you condemne of detestable Hypocrisie and dissimulation not only the people of al sortes in the forenamed Cities and diuers suche others where Catholiques liue mingled with Protestantes but also you condemne the whole Countries of Austria of Bauaria the great Dioces of Saltzburg of Passaw Mentz Treueres Coulen and other Territories where the whole face and shewe of Religion is onely Cathholike It is a smal token of grace yea of ciuill honestie for the setting forth of your conceiued opinioâ— so farre and so notoriously to sclaunder whole Natioâ— and Countries Iewel Pag. 37. Linea vlt. As for the VVest Spanish Indies the people there liued not only vvithout al manner knovvledge of God but also vvilde and naked vvithout any Ciuile gouernment Being in this miserable state and naturally by the very sense and iudgement of Common reason abhorring and lothing their ovvne blindnesse vvhat merueil is it if they vvere easy to be lead into any religion Harding M. Iewel attributeth the glorious conuersion of the Indians not to the power of the Gospel but to the leading of natural reason The 10. Chapt. What M. Iewel doo you enuie at the glorie of God Doth it greue you to see great Countries conuerted to the faith of Christe by them that be not of your Faith And wil ye needes to deface the power of the Gospel attribute the miraculous conuersion of that rude people vnto natural reason Had your heathnish harte herein rather acknowledge a leading of nature then the power of our Sauiour What could Porphyrie Iulian or Celsus
written if you had not changed the honest worde blame whiche I vsed The honeste vvorde blame by M. Ievvel charged into the filthy vvorde handle into the worde of vnhonest meaning handle whiche you would haue men beleeue that I vsed how should there haue risen of my wordes any opinion of il meaning Verely M. Iewel in your alteration of my wordes and placing in the steede of the worde blame the worde handle that seemed to you to serue better for your filthy purpose to disgrace myne honestie if you coulde there appeareth an euident argument both of false and also of malicious dealing Your very frendes must needes mislike with you if they haue any honestie for this your vnhonest handling You are neuer hable to auoide it cast vpon it what colours you can What woulde you sticke to speake of me were I dead that are not ashamed thus to belie me being a liue and occupied in shewing to the worlde with what impudent lyes ye blotte your papers Yet of al your foule shiftes this is one of the fowlest and such as in common persons is called you know what I am a shamed to speake it you are not a shamed to plaie the parte The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 1. Diuision 2. Pag. 90. VVe beleeue that the holy Ghost vvho is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not created not begotten but proceding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto man and vnspeakeable c. Confutation Cōfut fol. 41. b As we acknowledge this article to be true and Catholike so we demaunde of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most authoritie We are sure they haue not Therfore we doo them to vnderstand that if they heare vs not we aduertise the Readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truthe necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other Councelles be to be receiued besides the foure firste whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * Left out by M. Ievvel as that wherein this point touching the Proceding of the holy Ghoste hath benne defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Church when vpon a new doubte rising an olde Truthe is by later publications declared c. * Iewel Pag. 90. Consider M. Harding notvvithstanding ye euermore tel vs of Fathers Fathers yet hovv contrary oftentimes ye are in iudgement to the same Fathers You saie that the Godhed of the holy Ghoste can not be proued by expresse vvordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye say ye are right sure Harding That M. Iewel is not able to proue by Scripture certaine truthes whiche with the Catholiques he teacheth touching the holy Ghoste What folie is in frowardnesse The. 3. Chapt. it appeareth by M. Iewels trauaile to proue the Godhed of the holy Ghoste by Scriptures which I neuer denied nor euer gaue him such issue to proue But where he confesseth a Trinitie and that the holy Ghost is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie whiche holy Ghost also he confesseth to proceede from the Father and the Sonne though al these partes be true and Catholique yet I saie he is neuer hable to proue any of these pointes by any expresse wordes of the Scriptures Thinges beleeued and yet not expressely writen in Scripture Where can he finde this worde Trinitie in this signification in al Scripture Where hath he this worde Person in this signification in any place of the Scripture Where hath he in any expresse wordes of the Scripture that the holy Ghoste proceedeth from the Father and the Sonne Or where hath he in al the Scripture that the holy Ghost is rather the thirde Person in Trinitie then the seconde These are the pointes that M. Iewel is charged to proue by expresse wordes of Scripture and not that the Holy Ghoste is God The word Transubstantiatiō abhorred bicause it is not foūd in scripture expressely The worde Transubstantiation they abhorre bicause it is no where founde expressely in Scripture and yet they acknowledge the worde Trinitie and the worde Person both First Seconde and Thirde though these wordes be no where founde expressely in these significations in the whole bodie of the Scriptures So can these craftie Iuglers and false peruerters of Goddes truthe doo when they be disposed changing them selues into al manner colours like the beast Chameleon excepte the colour of good meaning and plaine dealing into whiche for any long time they can not change them selues Iewel Pag. 93. I trust Gentle Reader thou vvilt not looke I should ansvver al M. Hardinges ordinarie idle talke So should I loose good time vvithout cause and be ouer troublesome to thine eares O saith he what a world is it to see these Defenders They whiche haue not kepte the Vnitie of spirite in the bande of Charitie whiche S. Paule requireth but haue seuered them selues from the body of the Churche tel vs now forsooth they beleeue that there is one Churche of God O M. Harding if vve haue herein saide il then beare vvitnesse of the il If vvee haue saide vvel vvherefore make you this bitter outcries c. Harding The Protestantes claime by the great visible Churche and by the litle inuisible Churche as it serueth best their turne O M. Iewel if your saying and doctrine were one The. 4. Chapt. I would neuer reprehend you but when you say one thing openly an other thing priuily and haue diuers pointes of secrete Doctrine contrarie the one to the other when ye are driuen to the straightes as now claiming by an inuisible Churche no where appearing many hundred yeres together whiche to say the truthe is no Churche at al and now by your great visible Churche spred abrode in al kingdomes when ye haue made your packe what is this in effecte but in woordes for the time to sette foorth your beleefe of one Churche gloriously and when time wil not beare out this gaie glorious Confession of yours then as your manner is to runne to Corners to seeke some comforte of an vnknowen Inuisible Churche where both the Ministers the preachers the Sacramentes the people and their whole life are al together inuisible In the saying wherof what doo ye elles but vtterly denie that one Churche which ye ought to Confesse Iewel Pag. 93. VVe say See Reader hovv vvel this ghear is proued M. Harding fol. 25. a. that our Doctrine and the Order of our Churches is elder then yours by fiue hundred vvhole yeres and more If ye vvil not beleeue vs yet beleeue M. Harding he vvil tel you euen the same Marke vvel his vvordes These they be It standeth not with Christes promises made to the Churche that he should suffer his Churche to continew in darkenesse these thousand yeres past And
the reprehension of my vehement speache doo fal into the selfe same Vehemencie Whose wordes are these M. Iewel M. Ievv blameth my vehemencie of speache him selfe being also no lesse vehement Pag. 94. Beholde your owne wordes so many so vaine so bitter so firie so furious al together in one place Are not these your owne wordes Are not these as vehemeÌ„t as you could deuise Wil you finde faulte with me for that you vse your selfe If vehement speache be to be vsed when the matter requireth why blame you me If not why doo you so often vse it Whether you and Luther doo vse it iustly for the zeale of Goddes glorie aske that of them that wrote the Confession of the Churche of Zurich Your owne frendes the Ministers of that congregation doo set forth Luther for his outragious and filthy railing against them in his colours and speake of him as of a very vile felow and paie him home againe with as good as he brought Reade the booke and ye shal finde it to be true Howbeit I could sende you to many other bookes of your brethren fraught with muche more vile stuffe of railing then that litle booke conteineth with al whiche you are better acquainted then I am The Confutation of the Apologie The seconde parte the 2. Chapter Confut fo 44. b Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe aâ— other waie bicause Christe is head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie Menne be called heades in as muche as they be in steede of Christ and vnder Christ after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians for if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it 2. Cor. 2. for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe And in an other place 2. Cor. 5. We are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in few 〈◊〉 vvhat sense Christe is named the Head of the Churche and in vvhat sense the Pope is so named according to inwarde influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is the head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christ and in steede of Christ is head of the same Iewel Pag. 94. To the matter ye saie that touching the influence of grace Christe onely is the head of the Churche but touching direction and gouernemeÌ„t the Pope only as the head Al this is but your ovvne tale M. Harding ye speake it onely of your selfe other authoritie of Scripture or Doctour you bringe vs none Harding Dogge eloquence proued no vnwoonted terme and how the Pope is Head of the Churche To the mater ye saie And truly wel said of you The .7 Chapt For hitherto you haue not directed your talke to the mater but to the person of your Aduersarie with whom you shew your selfe greuously offended for calling the Currish and snarling vtterance of Luther Dogge eloquence And whereas you would faine draw the same to the preiudice of my modestie I trust you that are so great a Rhetorician and so wel seene in poetes Fables wil iudge so muche the better of me for so muche as Quintilian that modeste and graue Oratour and Ouide also no Poete Satyrical thought suche phrase of speache not vnmeete for the countenance of modestie and humanitie that they bare in the worlde For if you remember Canina Eloquentia QuintiliaÌ„ lib. 12. c. 9 Ouid. in Ibin is Quintilians worde calle it dogge eloquence dogged eloqueÌ„ce or dogges eloquence or how soeuer otherwise it please you to terme it And Ouid saith Latrâ—◠〈◊〉 in toro verba canina foro If for the vse of this auncient terme I seeme to passe the boundes of modestie specially attributing it vnto Luther whose heretical and Deuilish vtterance is coÌ„monly in deede farre worse then the barking of any Dogge or the hissing of any Serpent what wil you saie of the Scolding of your hote brother M. Calfhil But now that after muche idle and impertinent talke you are come to the mater what saie you that is worth the hearing M. Iewels foule falsifying of my vvordes Thus you saie Ye saie that touching the influence of Grace Christe onely is the Head of the Churche I graunt I say so in deede Go ye forth and make no lye but touching direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Yea sir Where saie I so You should haue caused your printer to haue falsified that senteÌ„ce of mine that at your owne pleasure the simplest of your owne poore Fauourers who take al for the Gospel that you saie or write might not in your owne booke espie your shamelesse lying For euen there notwithstanding your coÌ„mon falsifyinges other where 's and also there they maie finde my saying otherwise reported It is an euident argument that myne owne wordes were to true for you to confute sith that you thought it necessarie least you should seme ouercome to alter and change them for other wordes of your own which being false to the vnlearned reader I might seeme to speake fondly and besides al truth For how is it likely I should saie that touching Direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Your fetche was to bring your vnlearned fauourers by whom you are magnified to beleeue that from the Direction and gouernement of the Church I excluded Christe and the holy Ghoste the spirite of truth Which God forbid I should doo Now the true wordes of my Confutation in this place are these Defence Pag. 92. whiche the Reader maie see also in the booke of your Defence although very much mangled and falsified of set purpose to thintent the force of truth by me opened should not be seene as by view of my booke it maie clearely appeare Where thus I saie For Head and Spouse alone he is of his kingdom in one respecte not alone in an other respect * Confut. fol. 44. a. left out by M. Ie. For a cleare declaration whereof it is to be vnderstanded that being of a Head maie be considered after two waies The being of a Head considered tvvo vvaies either according to the inward influence so as the vertue and power of mouing and of sense is deriued from the head vnto the other members or according to outward gouernment right so as a man is directed in his outward actes according to the sight and other senses AccordiÌ„g to it ward influence of grace Christe onely is Head of the Churche In respect of outvvard gouernement the name of Head is attributed to others beside Christe which haue their roote in the head Now the inwarde influence of grace is not of any other but of Christe only Bicause Christes manhood onely hath power to iustifie for that the same only is ioyned personally to the Godhead * According to this inward influence of Grace Christ properly and only is Head of his mystical body the Church But as touching
euerlasting which God graunt vs al. Of many other questions I haue said somewhat But herein is most profite bicause in few it conteineth al the rest For where the Churche is there al the necessarie treasure of Gods wisedome Isai 59. there is the holy Ghoste there is the worde of truth and the incorporation with Christe the spouse and husband thereof Whosoeuer loueth his soule health If thou vvilt be â—uâ—d depart not out of the Churche let him vnderstand wel which is the true Church and keepe him selfe therein For it is ordeined of God as a mother and a nourse to conteine and keepe al menne safe within it who doo not wilfully depart out of it The continuance of it is by Succession Sheepe succede after Sheepe and Bishops who be the Sheepeheardes after Bishops those to be fedde these to seede If those can not faile at any time neither can these lacke or faile We shew both M. Iewel sheweth neither any SuccessioÌ„ of Shepe nor of Bishops Therfore he that resteth with M. Iewel is out of the Folde And he that wil be the saued Sheepe of Christe must abide in or if he be out returne to the Folde of Peter to whome alone as louing more then others it was said Ioan. 21. feede my lambes feede my sheepe Of Auricular or Sacramental Confession Iewel Pag. 133. VVe saie that priuate Confession to be made vnto the Minister is neither commaunded by Christe Chrysost â—d Hebr. homil 30. nor necessary to saluation and therefore Chrysostom saith I wil thee not betraye thy selfe openly not to accuse thy selfe before others But I counsel thee to obeyâ— the Prophete saying open thy waye vnto the Lorde Harding Confâ—ssioÌ„ necessary priuate or publique Iohan. 20. NEither doo we say precisely that Priuate Confession is necessarie but that either Priuate or Publike is necessarily to be made to a Priest bicause he onely hath power of Christe to forgeue and to reteinâ— sinnes And he can not iudge who are to be forgeuen or who are to be reteined excepte the sinners do particularly open their hart and thought where the founteine of sinnes is Matt. 15. accordingly as Christ said Euil thoughts come forth from the hart S. Chrysostom in this place speaketh not in deede of Sacramental Confession but of that which is daily to be made vnto God alone Of the coÌ„fessioÌ„ that S. Chrystom speaketh of Ad Heb. hom 31. He had said before Poenitentem non oportet peccatum suum obliuioni tradere peccatum Confessione minuitur nullum inuenitur delictorum tale remedium sicut eorum continuata memoria The penitent must not forgete his sinne The sinne is diminished by Confession No such remedie of sinnes is found as the continual remembrance of them Nec tantum nos peccatores esse dicamus sed etiam ipsa peccata specialiter singula computemus Neither let vs only saye we are sinners in general but let vs recken vp euery sinne in special Vpon which wordes immediatly it foloweth I saie not to thee that thou shalt bewray thy selfe openly but open thy way vnto our Lorde Now put the whole tale of S. Chrysostome together whereas he willed men to haue continual remembrance of their sinnes to confesse them and that in special and particularly and stil to do it a man might worthily haue said vnto him why syr shal I go euery daye to the Priest and neuer leaue confessing the selfe same sinne To this obiection he maketh answer saying Ibid thee not bewraie thy selfe openly nor to accuse thy selfe before others Reuele thy wayes to God Here then we haue Particular and ofte remembrance of sinnes that it is good to cal the selfe same sinnes oftetimes particularly to remeÌ„brance and to coÌ„fesse them ofte vnto God But that they neede not at al to be confessed to the priest that S. Chrysostome saith not For in other places he hath taught vs that the priest is in better case to purge sinnes now then the priest in the lawe was to shewe that the leprouse were purged His wordes are Corporis lepram haud purgare quidem Chrysost Lib. 3. de Sacerdotio Priestes haue povver to purge the Lepre of the soule sed purgatos probare Iudaeorum sacerdotibus solis licebat At vero nostris sacerdotibus non corporis lepram verùm animae sordes non dico purgatas probare sed purgare prorsus concessum est The priestes onely of the Iewes had power not to purge the Lepre of the body but to trie them that were purged But truly vnto our Priestes it is geuen vtterly to cleanse not the Lepre of the body but the filth of the soule Marke reader these wordes To cleanse and not to trie who are cleane If our Priestes do so farre passe the Priestes of the Lawe and yet no Leprous man might be admitted into the Temple and Communion of the Iewes vntil the only Priestes of Moyses law had declared him to be cleane much lesse can any mortal sinner who in his soule is leprous be ordinarily purged but onely by the Priestes of Christ who now as S. Chrysostom saith doo not only shew that men are purged but haue power throwghly to purge the lepre that is to saie the mortal sinne of the soule But how can they discretely purge that which is not shewed vnto them Math. 8. When Christ sent away the leprouse man bidding him to shewe him selfe vnto the prieste then he declared as in a figure of the law that in the time of the new testament a great sinner should not be purged before that he had shewed him selfe that is to saie had reueled the soares of his hart and conscience vnto the priest So haue we that it is good and necessarie to confesse al our sinnes vnto God and our Lepres or mortal sinnes also vnto the Priest Of these two truthes neither impugneth other That is a continual practise of Heretikes to reproue the one kind of Confession bicause they find somtimes the other alone coÌ„meÌ„ded or spokeÌ„ of A wise and a good maÌ„ wil coÌ„ferre and ioine al truthes together and not go about to destroie one truth by another As for Gratian and al your hotchepotte of gloses I wil leaue for a more conuenient place where perhappes if it shal be thought worth the labour they shal be answered al at ones Against your heretical Proposition I wil set S. Basils catholike iudgement It was demaunded of S. Basil Qui vult confiteri peccata sua Basil In Quaest CoÌ„peud 288. num omnibus confiteri debet quibuscunque quibus He that wil confesse his sinnes whether he ought to confesse them to al men and to what soeuer personnes or els to whom Hereunto he maketh this answer Necessarium est confiteri peccata ijs quibus administratio mysterioruÌ„ Dei concredita est Sic enim qui olim poenitentiaÌ„ egerunt coram sanctis fecisse comperiuntur ScriptuÌ„ est enim in EuaÌ„gelio quideÌ„ quòd
his quotations to be in my said two Bookes whiche are not there in deede altogether in that order and meaning as he vntruly hath alleged them I proue his dealing herein partely to be agreable to his other false demeanour and partely that good and iust causes there were why I should writing against him vse suche order of language Furthermore bicause he woulde the great and manifolde Vntruthes with whiche I charged him to seeme no Vntruthes at al but that al is the Gospel what so euer commeth from his Mouthe and whereas for proufe thereof he hath set forth a View of his Vntruthes the least of al that he could espie by me noted against him and pretendeth to iustifie the same his least Vntruthes in the said View I haue made an answere to that View of Vntruthes and there doo shewe manifestly specially in the chiefe pointes where errour is most perilous that he was truely and iustly charged with those Vntruthes and that for ought he hath yet said in Defence of them he remaineth stil chargeable with the same as before This muche I haue perfourmed in the first Booke After this in foure bookes folowing I detecte his Errours Lies Cauilles shiftes Sclaunders and sundrie vntrue matters founde in the firste and seconde parte of his Defence And in respecte thereof I cal the Treatie A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. At length hauing tried by very certaine experience and exacte view of the whole Booke that there was no ende of lying what place so euer in reading my eie lighted vppon I thought it most profitable and most agreable with my profession to let passe thinges of smal importance the handeling of whiche serued him specially to scoffe to vtter vile matter againste the Churche and to fil vp his Booke in tended at the beginning to be made greate and to treate of the Articles of Doctrine in defence of the Truthe and to confute what he hath brought to the contrarie Among whiche Articles of doctrine of some I haue treated briefly as being alreadie treated of in my Confutation and otherwheres of some at good length and with more diligence as of Succession and of the vnlawful Marriages of Priestes and al other Votaries wherein he is very large and copious of Doctours sayinges of al sortes but vtterly destitute of any one saying that maketh cleerely for his parte In the ende I doo most euidently disproue and refel what he was hable to bring for Defence of two pointes which he is not ashamed to affirme seming to me the one very false the other very sclaunderous The first is as he auoucheth them that matters of faith and Ecclesiastical causes are to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The other is that the Papistes haue taught that simple Fornication is no sinne How weake proufes he bringeth for the one and for the other and yet how shamelesly he goeth about to prooue them by conference of bothe our Treaties it shal appeare Withal there I haue added a Comparison of Errours in mistaking names of menne bookes Chapters c. with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I him Matters let passe vvith treating vvhereof the Defence is grovven to a Huge Volume Thus haue I declared in fewe the Summe as it were and Order of this Treatie As for sundrie other matters as of forged Scriptures of the doctrine of Deuilles so he calleth the forbidding of Priestes Monkes Friers and Nunnes to marrie of the fruites of single life whereof he laith out great stoare of filthy sayinges of S. Iames Epistle whether it be Canonical Scripture of sundrie ancient Traditions now growen out of vse of the Fourmes and Accidentes whereat he scoffeth like a Vice plaier of the number of the Sacraments of the Churche which we defende to be seuen he affirmeth to be but two or els so many as the thinges be vnto which the name of Sacrament is by any Writer applied which are very many of the Faith of Infantes of their new found Imaginatiue Faith or rather phantastical Imaginatiō that eateth the bodie and drinketh the bloud of Christ of the Popes Dispensations of dissensions among the Fathers of Nominales and Reales of Thomistes and Scotistes of diuersitie of religious persons Apparel wherein he saith they put great holinesse of the variance betwen the Lutherās and the Zuinglians of the fable of Dame Iohane the woman Pope of the Marble Image lying in the high way at Rome of the stoole of easement of Porphyrie stoane at Lateran of Athenes and Rome whether they were Vniuersities in the time this Dame Iohane is feyned to haue liued in of the vicious life of Petrus Aloisius Duke of Parma and Placentia of Iohn Diazius death of the slaughter of the Boures of Germanie that tooke weapons against the nobilitie there prouoked by the preaching of Luther and his scholers of Constantines Donation of Poison ministred in the Sacrament as he reporteth feined fables for stories of great soothe of the abomination of desolation of the state of the Church of Rome of Antichrist of the mistaking of Cardinal Hosius of their pretensed burning of the Scriptures of S. Augustine the Apostle of the English Nation that he was a wicked man of Priestes keeping of Concubines of Images of Latine Praiers and Churche Seruice of Comparison of learning betwene the Catholiques and the Protestantes of Rome whether it be Babylon of summoning of Councelles of the Stewes in Rome whereof gladly he vttereth muche talke of kissing the Popes foote of the Popes hurling of Franciscus Daldulus fast tied in chaines vnder his table there to gnaw boanes with his Dogges of the Popes Bridle and Stirop to be holden by Princes of Pope Hildebrandes surmised wicked deedes as they fable of the Popes treadding on the Emperours necke of the Pope whether he be euer holy of the Popes Exactions of the Cheast in the Popes bosom whether the Pope be God of the Popes power feined to be ouer Angels whether the Pope can commit Simonie whether the Pope be King of Kinges whether the Pope be aboue general Councels whether the Pope maie erre or no whether the Pope be a Kinge Of these and of a great many moe suche matters whereof some be lothesom some be fabulous vaine and friuolous some be false sclaunderous and spiteful some blasphemous some alreadie sufficiently treated of briefly al tending vnto the contempt of the Catholique Religion as M. Iewel handleth them in which matters he hath vttered the stoare of his learning Of these I saie I haue said nothing much disaduantaging my selfe thereby and the common cause which I defend for so much as in the making vp of his great Booke with heaping together these ministerly matters he hath vttered as he doth euery where els good stoare of most euident and grosse Lies of which his owne frendes and best fauourers in case thei were detected would be ashamed These forenamed be the thinges which I haue briefly handled and these other and
certaine mo the like be those which I haue let passe as being partely vnnecessarie and vnprofitable partely vnmeete good houres to be bestowed about them By the handeling of these the weightier pointes it wil sufficiently appeare to al menne with what stuffe he filleth his great Bookes what smal credite he deserueth how litle pith there is to be found in his multitude of wordes how litle there is that serueth aptly to the purpose among the great heapes of testimonies that he laieth together Surely his Defence being wel examined by any man that hath skil and can iudge of these points it must needes be thought that when he saw he had not the plaine truth of his side yet with multitude of allegations he would make a shew of learning to the ignorant and trouble the answerer with confusion Euen so many Barbarous Princes as we reade in stories when they lacked a conuenient number of good and tried Souldiers haue gonne about to fraie their enemies with multitude of people who haue learned by their great ouerthrowes that oftentimes victorie is not obteined by multitude of menne In deede the Truth needeth not so many sayinges piked out of Schoolemenne of Summistes of Gloses vpon Gratian and other partes of the Canon Lawe and out of so many Canonistes of al sortes For trial of a mater to be prooued true in questions touching our beleefe one saying of the Scripture is sufficient if the expresse Scripture faile vs twoo or three Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers not being contrarie to the reste maie suffice But suche a confuse and vnorderly number of sayinges specially of suche as be not of great estimation as this man commonly allegeth of the same not one making cleerely for this purpose in moste matters what doth it els but breede a suspicion among the wise that the matter is not true for proufe whereof they be alleged But by this meane he thought to winne credit at least with the people For the people that can not iudge of these matters thinketh him best learned that hath most woordes It is knowen that when they beholde two reasoning together of any thing whereof they haue no skil commonly they commend the mainteiner of the worse cause in case he be fuller of wordes be they neuer so litle to the purpose and say in his praise that he answered the other partie to euery Quare M. Iewel vnderstanding this and making his most accompte of the people and of them that be vnlearned to whom he leaneth and by multitude of whom he and they of his side mind to stand for touching the learned they see they can winne none bestoweth great paines and charges to set out great bookes that at least in the opinion of the vnlearned and of them that haue not leisure to examine the points how substantially they are treated he maie seeme to haue done iolily and to haue acquited him selfe like a great Clerke In very deede if a man haue care howe muche he maie saie rather then how truly and feare not to vtter vntruthes he hath this aduantage ouer his aduersarie defending the truth with a conscience not to swarue from the censure of the Church that he may alwaies finde abundance of matter to vtter For as it hath of olde ben said Mendacium est multiplex veritas simplex Lying is manifolde Truth is simple Lying hath many plaites and foldinges Truth is without plaite or wrinckle Therefore it is no marueile if the Treaties of the one be narrowe and shorte of the other wide and long As for me if I prooue M. Iewel an vntrue man in so many pointes as I haue treated of I haue donne that whereby his credite must be broken His credite being broken what remaineth but that in this kinde of trade he go for a Banckroute If he be a Banckrout worthily is he to be begiled that trusteth him Some wil say perhaps it is not likely I should with so smal a booke discredit him that hath written so much But it maie please this man to remember that to saie the truth it is not M. Iewel that hath written muche He hath taken muche out of other mens bookes of his owne he hath in maÌ„ner nothing certainely very litle So that peruse his Booke who wil he shal finde that he is but a seely Translatour of other mens wordes a heaper together of al Writers sayings and that most commonly to more ostentation of tale then to the making vp of good weight So that if thinges be brought to an exact trial he shal be found no disputer no reasoner no discourser no Writer but only a gatherer together of other mennes Sentences How be it it is not the hugenesse of a booke that argueth the sufficiencie of proufes Truth is content to be set foorth with few wordes Neither yet doo I reproue him for that he allegeth what he findeth in other Writers For therby we bring credite to doubteful matters But for that alleging so much he allegeth so litle to the purpose yea in manner nothing and boldly wil I auouche it vtterly nothing for due proufe of any his new and strange doctrines being contrarie to that of ancient time hath benne beleeued in the Catholique Churche This shal seeme more probable if it be confirmed by some plaine and true examples Lette vs then examine M. Iewelles common demeanour in an example or twoo To discusse many the breuitie of a Preface wil not permitte O that he were in place to choose the example him selfe out of his whole Booke to his best aduantage that so it might euidently appeare with what weake tooles he fighteth against the truth ExaÌ„ples vvhereby it is shewed hovve vvith void and impertineÌ„t stuffe M. Ievvel filleth his great Booke Defence Pag. 163. Heb. 13. Confut. 73 b. Marke hovv M. Ievv alvvaies keepeth him selfe from coÌ„ming vnto the point in controuersie Whereas in the Apologie much is said in the commeÌ„dation of Matrimonie which no Catholique man euer discommended as that it is Holy and honorable in al sortes and states of personnes in the Apostles in the Ministers of the Church and in Bisshops and that it is an honest and lawful thing as S. Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in Matrimonie to take vpon him therewith the dignitie of a Bisshop to this I saie in my Confutation that albeit Matrimonie be holy and honorable in al and an vndefiled â—eâ— as S. Paule saith yet that it is not lawful for such personnes to marrie who haue deliberately vowed Chastitie or haue taken holy Orders This there I prooue by good and sufficient authoritie as it maie be seene in my said Confutation Now what is M. Iewels part here to proue for maintenaÌ„ce of his doctrine but that a man notwithstaÌ„ding his Vow or receiuing of holy Orders maie lawfully marrie This is the very point of the controuersie and thereto onely should he haue directed his talke If he go about any thing els it is beside the purpose But consider
others whiche he thought best to conceele and dissemble One thing good Reader it behoueth thee much to be warned of in case thou desire to stande an vpright vmpeere betwen M. Iewel and me Vpon what places so euer thou shalt happen to light in which he shal seeme to haue any good aduantage against me or against the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche passe not them ouer lightly weigh wel both our groundes examine both our allegations truste not to ought that is laid forth by either of vs presently but resort to the Bookes whence euery thing is taken Doing so thou shalt most certainely perceiue whether of vs both vseth more truth Doubtlesse in such places thou shalt seldō it were much so saie neuer find him to allege the wordes whereby he pretēdeth any colour of aduantage without some false sleight or other If thou desire to vnderstand this by some examples consider I praie thee what great a doo he maketh about the name of Vniuersal Bishop Vniuersal Bishop As he handleth that matter if a man wil beleeue him al thinges seeme to be plaine on his side Defence 120. The Coūcel of Carthage saith he decreed by expresse wordes that the Bishop of Rome should not be called the Vniuersal Bishop And behold Reader the confidēce that he hath in this cause which he sheweth with these wordes speaking vnto me This you saie is forged and falsified and is no part of that Conucel For indifferēt trial both of the truth ād of the falshed herein I besech you behold the very wordes of the Councel euen as they are alleged by your owne Doctour Gratian. These they are Prima Sedi◠Episcopus c. Let not the Bishoppe of any of the first Sees be called the Prince of Priestes Dist 99. Primae or the highest Priest or by any like name but onely the Bishoppe of the first See But let not the Bishoppe of Rome him selfe be called the Vniuersal Bishoppe c. Now M. Harding compare our wordes and the Councelles wordes together We saie none otherwise but as the Councel saith The Bishop of Rome him selfe ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop Herein we doo neither adde nor minis he but reporte the wordes plainely as we finde them If you had lookte better on your booke and would haue tried this matter as you saie by your learning ye might wel haue reserued these vnciuile reproches of falshed to your selfe and haue spared your crying of shame vpō this Defender Here is muche a doo as thou feest Reader and al standeth vpon falshed as I said at the first in my Confutation We striue not for the name of Vniuersal Bishop neither hath the Pope Challenged that title Yet these menne haue neuer donne with Vniuersal Bishop The whole matter is soone answered These wordes vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Concil Carthag 3 Cap. 26. The Bishop of Rome ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop these wordes I saie be not the wordes of the thirde Councel of Carthage nor in the Greeke nor in the Latine but the wordes of Gratian and they stande for the Summe of that parte of the distinction whiche there foloweth And thereof M. Iewel was not ignorant as it appeareth by his owne wordes in the same place Howbeit were it true that Gratian had ignorantly added them to the Councel as wordes of the Coūcel what learned man trusteth Gratian a man not greatly trusted in respect of sundrie his allegations when it is easy to see the Original For this I referre the Reader to the 39. Chapter of the third Booke of this Treatie fol. 184. b. Perusing that I haue answered to this point there thou shalt fully vnderstand how falsly M. Iewel hath dealte therein and how litle cause he had so to triumphe For neither hath the Councel any suche woordes at al nor speaketh it there so much as one worde of the Bishop of Rome nor hath Gratian put those wordes as a testimonie of the Councel but as the Summe of that parte of the 99. Distinction which immediatly foloweth As wel might M. Iewel haue said that those other wordes there placed vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis had ben the wordes of that Councel He that knoweth Gratians manner of writing can not but either laugh at M. Iewelles ignorance or maruaile at his impudencie To proue that it is lawful for a man to marrie a wife being in holy Orders The example of Eupsychius he allegeth the example of one Eupsychius who was a Laie Gentleman of Caesaria the chiefe Citie in Cappadocia and in a time of persecution suffred Martyrdom soone after that he had benne married Now most falsly he corrupteth the reporter of the Storie and maketh this Eupsychius a Bishop that it might appeare to the ignorant that one had married a wife after he had benne made a Bishop which would haue serued our married Superintendentes purpose gaily For yet after so many yeres searche they can not bring vs forth so much as one cleare example of the ancient Churche that euer there was any Bishop or Priest married after that degree and holy Order taken With such vncleane conueiance their vncleane treacherie is defended Defence 176. Cassio li. 6. cap. 14. His wordes be these Cassiodorus writeth thus In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they saie Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria died in Martyrdome hauing married a wife a litle before being yet in manner a newe married man Beholde Reader the falshod of this man First contrarie to his custome elswhere he leaueth the Greeke fonteine where this Storie was First written and goeth to the riuer of the olde translation in many places not most exactly answering the Greeke And why did he so Forsooth bicause if he had alleged Sozomenus the Greeke writer his falshod had benne fowly bewraied For he nameth this Eupsychius expressely Eupsychius a laie-man by M. Iewels forgerie made a Bishop to proue the Mariages of Priestes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as much to saie Eupsychius one of the Lordes or one of the Nobilitie of the Citie of Caesaria in Cappadocia Then bicause the Tripartite Storie of Cassiodorus setting foorth hath not so expressely that he was a nobleman of Caesaria M. Iewel was so bolde as to falsifie the place and to putte in of his owne this woorde Episcopum to helpe his matter and so corrupting his authour maketh him to cal him Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria Thus he taketh vpon him to make him a Bishoppe who was a Laie man as wel a Bishoppe as he him selfe is that it might appeare to the vnlearned that a Bisshoppe married a wife after he was Bisshoppe Fol. 302. 318. See what I haue said hereto in this Treatie where I answer his false stuffe touching
greeue the harte not onely of his Aduersarie but also of any other godly man with scorneful flowtes in thinges of greatest holinesse But Christian Reader we striue not for the Garland of that game we go not about to trie maisteries of suche witte or of humaine learning Our strife is about the Truthe The waie to shewe it and proue it whiche he him selfe by open Chalenge hath offred his Doctrine to be tried by is by laying forth the plaine Scriptures the examples of the Primitiue Church the testimonies of the General Councelles and ancient Fathers Of these who hath so great stoare saith a frende of his as M. Iewel Who euer sawe the margent of any Booke so beset with cotations as his Bookes are This were a great euidence of the Truthe on his side if the matter were alwaies tried by what so euer multitude of writers sayinges But what if the number of his testimonies be quite beside the purpose Seemeth he not then very shamelesse Is he not then farre to blame so to abuse the plaine and wel meaning Readers It shal be said perhappes in his excuse He seeth the negligence of menne he coÌ„sidered that fewe or none examine our writinges And therefore he thinketh he shal seeme to saie muche though in deede nothing be said that perteineth to the pointes presently handled And where a thing is to be done and the same for want of habilitie can not be done there it seemeth good policie to geue the assaie and to make shewe as if it could be donne or were donne It is knowen how flatterers make resemblance of frendship how Hypocrites geue forthe tokens of holinesse the intended Bankroute of good truste and credite the craking Coward of stoute courage Beggers oftentimes of welth Queanes of womanly honestie and chast demeanour Right so M. Iewel feeling him selfe destitute of the Truthe and impugning the Truthe and professing to deliuer vnto the worlde a new Truthe that is to saie a heape of olde Vntruthes busily set forth of late yeres by Luther Zuinglius Caluine Beza and the reste and by Wiklefe Hus Waldenses and others their predecessours in former times laboureth with al his witte and cunning to iustifie it calling it by the name of Goddes pure worde the Gospel and the sincere Truthe that whereas he is not hable to perfourme his intent in deed yet he might seeme to make it good with wordes Touching the life of the Clergie wel maie I confesse that M. Iewel hath somewhat to saie out of certaine writers how true I knowe not whereto I shal hardly be hable to make answer in ful defence of certaine personnes But as touching the Doctrine that the Catholike Churche holdeth at this daie and hath alwaies holden I auouche boldly as by sundrie our bookes it hath now ben clearely proued and they vnderstand so much that doo thoroughly examine the reasons authorities and proufes of both partes that he is not hable to bring so muche as one sentence out of any allowed writer that may not easily be refelled And bicause he knoweth that in pointes of Doctrine the force of Truth is clearely on our side he would faine traine me from matters of Doctrine wherein he hath smal hope of victorie or of acquitting him selfe with euen hande vnto matters of life and other bye thinges whereof what so euer be beleeued therein is no great danger touching our Saluation As for example what cracke is there made in the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche if the Nominales and the Reales if the Thomistes and Scotistes dissent about pointes Logical or Metaphysical or perhappes also about the paringes of some Scholastical pointes of Diuinitie What if some light beleeuing writers haue sadly and in ernest made mention of one Ioane a woman Pope deceiued by Martinus Polonus Martinus Polonus a man of smal credite who moued with olde wiues tales first committed that fable to writing What if some later writers haue vttered their phantasies whiche they dreamed thereof vpon occasion of an olde Marble Stone hauing in it a woman with a ladde standing by her engraued What if a fewe menne that helde with certaine euil Emperours whiche could not abide to be reuoked from their vnlawful lustes by the Pope for the time being haue written and reported il of a fewe Popes What if Iohannes Casa wrote some vnchaste Italian Sonettes and Rymes in his yewth though for filthinesse not comparable to suche as be extant of Bezaes making the Apostle of the Frenche Huguenotes What if Petrus Aloisius whom Paulus Tertius the Pope loued so tenderly were a vicious man What if Iohn Diazius the Spaniard were vnnaturally murdered by Alphonsus Diazius his brother that liued at Rome What if Luther wrote against the furious vproares of the Boures in Germanie when he sawe they were sure to be ouerthrowen by the Nobilitie there whom notwithstanding he had before by Thomas Muncer his scholer stirred to take weapons against their Lordes that he might laie some good colour vpon that he had il begonne What if some haue written though not without contradiction of others that Poison was ministred in the blessed Sacrament What if a Pope shewed him selfe cruel and without pitie in suffering Frances Dandulus the Venetians Ambassadour to lie vnder his table like a dogge whiles he was at diner What if Popes haue suffered great Princes and Monarkes to kisse their feete to holde their Stiroppes to leade their horses by the Bridle Wâ—at if Gregorie the seuenth otherwise called Hildebrande whom many graue Writers reporte to haue benne a man of great vertue and an excellent good gouernour of the Church be of some Writers of that age who flattered the Emperour then being that Popes mortal enemie accompted an il man What if Pope Alexander vsed Frederike the Emperour more proudly then became a man of his calling What if Constantines Donation can not be most sufficiently proued by record of antiquitie What if certaine Emperours and other Princes for great causes haue ben remoued froÌ„ their estates by the Popes authoritie What if the Gloser vpon Gratian and certaine other Canonistes haue immoderately magnified the Pope and to extol his power haue vsed some termes vndiscretely which neuerthelesse by fauorable interpretation maie be iustified What if the Popes at certaine times either for negligence cared not or for the wrechednesse of mannes il inclination could not or for great considerations would not vtterly purge the Citie of Rome of Courtesanes and Brodel houses What if the life of many Priestes Bishoppes Cardinals yea of some Popes also hath iustly deserued to be reproued Once to conclude what if al sortes of olde Bookes being raked out of dusty corners Schoolemen Summistes Glosers vaine Chroniclers Legendes writers of Dreames and Visions and suche Riffe raffe and menne for the purpose being set a worke to peruse them in the same be founde a fewe fonde pointes of Doctrine certaine loose Conclusions many seely Tales not worth the telling and some lewd faultes of
Defenders require vs to follow the example of S. Irenaeus in that he as they saie appealed oftentimes to the oldest Churches whiche had benne nearest to Christes time and whiche it was hard to beleeue that they had erred thus I saie Confut. â—â—4 a. Ye would seeme to be faine that we folowed the aduise of S. Irenaeus We are content with al our hartes And with Irenaeus we appeale to that Tradition Irenaeus lib 3. ca. 8. which is from the Apostles which as he saith is kepte in the Churches by Priestes that succeded them With Irenaeus leauing other Churches whose succession of Bishopes it were a long worke to reherse we require to haue recourse for trial of our Faith to the tradition of doctrine of the Romaine Churche which he termeth greatest oldest Idem lib. 3. cap. 3. best knowen to al founded and set vp by the twoo most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule We appeale to the Faith of that Churche taught abrode in the worlde and by successions of Bishoppes brought downe vnto vs. For to this Churche saith Irenaeus must al the Church of Christe repaire where so euer it be for that it is the chiefe of al and for that the tradition of the true doctrine whiche the Apostles lefte behind them is there faithfully kepte Wherfore if ye would after the counsel of Irenaeus resorte to Rome for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte you and vs and would them to be tried by that sense of doctrine whiche hath continued by Successions of Bishoppes euen from Peter to Pius the fourth now Pope and would stand to the auctoritie of that See Apostolike al strife were ended we should be at accorde But we haue litle hope that ye wil folowe this godly counsel of S. Irenaeus that blessed Martyr whose bodie your brethren the Huguenotes of Fraunce villanously burned at Lions Anno Domini 1562. after it had rested there thirteen hundred yeres and more In al these wordes as thou seest reader I say not as M. Iewel beareth her Maiestie in hande I doo that we must learne to know the wil of God only at the Popes hande But I declare whether we may most safely resorte for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte vs and the Protestantes Whereunto M. Iewel hath not yet answered ne neuer shal be hable to answere though in the Defence he haue shuffled together a great heape of allegations nothing perteining to the present purpose as his custome is to doo and a great parte of my confutation there he hath cut of M. Iewel cutteth and mangleth the Confutation in infinite places leauing out wordes of greatest vveight and therby hath fowly mangled the same as for his aduantage he hath done in infinite places leauing out the matters whereunto he had not what reasonably to answere See the place Reader Defence pag. 701. and thou shalt finde my worde true Item there Iewel That in the Popes onely holinesse standeth the vnitie and safetie of the Churche Confut. 204. b. Harding If I had so said in a right sense it might wel be allowed Howbeit thus I said Confut. 204. b. As Christe gaue vnto S. Peter and his Successours for the benefite of his Churche a supreme auctoritie and power so for the same Churches sake for whose loue he deliuered him selfe to death by petition made to his Father he obteined for him and his Successours Ioan. 14. Luc. 22. the Priuiledge of this Supreme and most excellent Grace that their Faith should neuer faile In consideration of whiche singular priuiledge obteined by Christe and graunted to the See Apostolike and to none other S. Gregorie rebuketh Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople so much as one that presumptuously vsurped that new name of vniuersal Bishop against the Statutes of the Gospel and against the decrees of the Canons To coÌ„clude if either S. Gregorie or any other maÌ„ should saie that the Churche dependeth vpon one man he might seeme to saie truthe meaning rightly and that not alone nor without good authoritie For such a saying we finde vttered by S. Hierome Hieron Contra Luciferian The saftie of the Churche saith he dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest priest who if he haue not auctoritie peerlesse and aboue al other there wil be so many schismes in the Churche as there be priestes Which peerlesse auctoritie aboue al other as S. Hierome in that place doth attribute vnto the Bishop of euery Dioces directly so consequently to Peters successour to whom it was said Feed my shepe Iohan. 21. For by what reason in ech Dioces it behoueth one priest to be highest ouer other Priestes by the same and in like proportioÌ„ no lesse it behoueth that in the whole Church one Bishop be highest ouer other Bishoppes I meane for auoiding of schismes This reason is not ne can not of M. Iewel be auoided Of other thinges impertinent he bringeth vs great stoare out of other men in the Defence Defence pag. 452. but to this very reason wherein standeth the pointe touching the maintenance and preseruation of vnitie he saith nothing Item there Iewel That vvho so euer is diuided from the Pope must be iudged an Heretique and that vvithout the obedience of him there is no hope of Saluation Confut. 306. b. Harding Who so euer is diuided not onely from the Pope but also from any other Catholique Bishoppe in faith ought to be iudged an Heretique As touching obedience Iohan. 21. whereas by Christe he is commaunded to Feede his Lambes and his sheepe and thereby hath commission to gouerne them how can he be saued from the rauening woolues who through disobedience refuseth to come into that Folde and to be fedde and guided of that high Pastor I confesse that in certaine cases besides faith a man may disobey the Pope and yet not be remoued from all hope of saluation My wordes for whiche you make so muche a doo are these vttered vpon occasion of your Apologie Confut. fol. 306. b. Ye put vs in minde to consider how that your selues are those priuate hil Aulters and darke groues For ye be they that stoppe the people from the commoÌ„ Temple of Christendom the Catholique Church out of which is no saluation the head whereof sitteth in Peters Chaire at Rome Item there Iewel And yet as though it vvere not sufficient for him so vainely to sooth a man in open errours he telleth vs also sadly and in good earnest that the same Bishop is not onely a Bishop but also a kinge Confut. fol. 80. a. 305. b. Harding Neither haue I in any place soothed the Pope in open Errours but haue graunted that certaine Popes had their Errours either before they were called to that roume or also afterwarde holding them priuately and as priuate Doctours That the Pope erreth how is it denied But that by any publique decree geuen out to be holden and obserued of the Churche they euer mainteined or gaue assent or
Esaie Esai 5â— This is my couenaunt with them my spirite whiche is in thee and my wordes that I haue put in thy mowth shal not departe from thy mowth and from the mowth of thy seede and from the mowth of thy seedes seede from this time for euer Lo here ye heare bothe the wordes of God and the Spirite of truthe by whom the wordes may be rightly vnderstanded promised to remaine with the Church for euer Thus we are wel assured that the Churche hath neuer failed nor wanted Goddes worde goddes Spirite and Goddes truthe But ye my Maisters of the new learning do say that the Churche failed and was destitute of Goddes worde and of his spirite of Truthe for the space of nyne hundred yeres and more vntil Martin Luther came and restored the lost Gospel By vertue of whiche Gospel neuer preached before ye claime the right of the Church and so would dispossesse vs wherein of necessitie ye must graunt one of these two either that Christe the Sonne of God promised more then he perfourmed whiche were heinous blasphemie or that your Churche hath continued til this day and shal continue to the worldes ende If to eschew the reproche of so wicked a blasphemie ye graunt the continuance of your Churche ye must tel vs where it was before Luther began to preache that ye cal the Gospel Name the place where was it Or was it somewhere without a place Dic quibus in terris eris mihi magnus Apollo If it were at al where were your Bishops What were their names or were they men without names Bring forth your Originals your Registers your Rolles of Bishops that folowed one after an other by lawful succession For this were a sure way for proufe of your right Tertull. In prascript Optatus August muche commended and vsed of the best learned Fathers Your Actes and Monumentes where be they Haue ye none of greater antiquitie then those late of Foxes making If ye had a continual succession how came Luther and Zuinglius first to the Gospel how was al the light quite out before how were al the fonteines of the water of life vtterly dryed vp before his time for so ye write in your Apologie This this can not stand together M. Iewel by no meanes as al the world may see So then it is we kepe our ancient Possession ye heaue and shooue to remoue vs from it We be of the howseholde ye are strangers We are the heires of the Apostles ye are forrainers We are the lawful Children of the Churche ye are Bastardes to be shorte and plaine whereas we are Catholiques what foloweth but that ye be Heretiques The case standing thus what great offence haue I committed if where I defende the common cause of the Churche being moued with dew zeale and iuste griefe of mynde to see your vngodly dealinges I forgete sometimes the flattering Titles wherewith ye woulde your proceedinges to be magnified and vse wordes more agreable to your desertes O ye saie I vse vncourteous and vnciuile speache Why sir if ye skreake like Frogges must we saie ye sing like Nightingalles If ye crowe like proude Cockes must we saie ye mourne like simple Dooues If ye byte vs like Mastiâ—â—s must we say ye licke vs like gentle Spaniâ—h If ye consume vs and deuoure vs like rauening Wolues must we say ye profite vs like good Sheepe Must we tel the worlde that your Serpentes be Fisshes your Snakes be Lamproies your Scorpions be Creauises briefly that your deadly Poison is holesom Triacle What were this but to please men and to deceiue Goddes people But let vs go from Metaphores and come to the plaine mater If your Doctrine be false as by most sufficient waies we haue proued it to be shal we be vnciuile excepte we sooth it If your deedes be vngodly as the worlde seeth and rueth shal we be vncourteous excepte we iustifie them If ye say Nay for Yea and Yea for Nay in Goddes causes shal we be blamed as men vnciuil and vncourteous except we vpholde your Yea and your Nay We can be content to lacke the praise of suche sinneful Ciuilitie of suche wicked Courtesie If any priuely pike money out of our purses steale our goodes robbe by the high waye kil men and attempte traison to their Princes person standeth it with good manner to cal them Pikepurses Theeues Robbers Murderers Traitours and whereas you and your felowes teache and stubbornly mainteine a false doctrine concerning the real presence that here I speake of no other pointes by the Churche and by Luther him selfe the first founder of your owne Gospel condemned for Heresie must it needes be an vncourteous parte to cal you Heretiques To touche some of your rawest Gaulles for making proffer to whiche ye wince and kicke so muche euery where â—nd specially where ye laye forth al my sharpe wordes with suche diligence gathered together out of my bookes into one heape before your Preface to the Reader For so muche as it is geuen forth by Luthers owne confession that by the conference and disputation which the Deuil had with him he was persuaded to defie the Masse and become enemie to the blessed Sacrifice of the Churche and your selfe M. Iewel haue geuen your verdite in fauour of Luther and Satan Sathans doctrine Sathan their Schoole Maister In the Replie art 1. Diuision 2. allowing Satans Doctrine in that point and Luthers conformitie imbracing the same also for your owne parte as you haue openly witnessed in your Replie what offence was it to say for whiche you shewe your selfe greeued that ye ioined with Satan and concerning the spite ye beare at the Masse to cal Satan your Schoolemaister That I called this new founded Churche of the Protestantes a Babylonical tower not without iuste cause It angreth you that I cal this new Church of yours for so a Gods name we must name it Your Babylonical Tower And this is for a heinous worde scored vp among the rest in your said Rolle you tel the Quene of it also in your Epistle to her Maiestie but how iustly ye be offended therewith let it be considered by that I shal here briefly declare Dissensions among the Protestantes Who knoweth not that is any thing acquainted with the affaires of oure age into how many Sectes they haue diuided them selues that forsooke the Catholique Churche sithence Luther beganne to leade vs a newe daunce in Religion what controuersies debates and strifes about the weightiest pointes of our Faith haue benne stirred vp and moste earnestly mainteined among them Who hath not heard of the brawling and skolding betwene Luther and Zuinglius and the vpholders of either side about the Doctrine of the Euchariste Neither hath the matter benne handled with any better quiet betwene the Osiandrines and the Stancarians touching the Iustification of man the one Secte attributing it vnto Christes Diuine nature the other vnto his humaine nature onely Againe what sturre hath benne made about
you are to defend it what wise man seeth not Yet bicause you thinke your selfe shamed for euer excepte you stand to it stoutely ye proceede without regard of truth or modestie And nowe seing your selfe brought to this distresse that you must either yeelde with some shame or prosecute your Chalenge with more shame ye choose rather to seeme impudent in lying and to passe al measure in craking then any thing ouerseene in that you first tooke in hande And albeit bothe I and others haue made most euident proufe hereof and the thing it selfe speaketh so muche yea and your owne very frendes see it and be right sorfor it yet forsooth to cal M. Iewel a lyer a sclaunderer a craking Chalenger by verdite of M. Iewel him selfe it was vnmannerly and vnciuilly done But sir sith you require me to be so courteous in my writinges against you why did not you your selfe in yours against me vse more courtesie Is that commendable in you whiche is reproueable in me Or els what haue you a special dispensation to say what you liste and to require al others to adore you and say Aue Rabbi Shal it be lawful for you to crie out vpon vs tolle tolle crucifige and must we sing vnto you Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus Whiles ye barke and bite must we caste a disshe of fragmentes vnto you Whiles ye play the Beare with vs must we throw honny vnto you Whiles ye play the parte of Satan must we light a candle before you S. Paule the chosen vessel of Christe teaching Titus Tit. 1. how to demeane himselfe towardes such as you are said Increpa illos durè rebuke them sharpely But what soeuer you say or doo must we needes sothe you and smooth◠you Muste we stroke you and cooxe you as men doo curst boyes after they haue done shrewd turnes If you passe al men that euer wrote in number of lyes in vanitie of boasting in the common custom of scoffing as now it hath benne prooued against you shal we feare that we seeme not to lacke the ciuilitie you speake of to cal you a lyer a boaster a scoffer What is the matter that doing so il you require to be spoken of so wel By this or no vvaie els like it is we should please M. Ievvel PErhaps whereas the Rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie cause men al to belorde you your eares being of long tyme accustomed to suche honorable greetinges you looke to be honoured at our handes as you are of your poore hungry Craftesmen that hauing learned to reade Englishe pretily sue vnto you for Ministerships And then whereas you lye impudently folowing them we muste saie were it not that your good Lordship saith so verely we should haue thought otherwise And whereas you falsifie your testimonies we must put the fault in your Spectacles When you hew and mangle the Doctours so fowly that al the worlde may see it we must beare you in hande that when your Lordship wrote so the booke was not at hande When you serue vs with a point of Scurrilitie we muste saye O howe it becommeth your L. to be meary When you shoote at randon diuerting altogether from the special point that is to be answered vnto impertinent matter we must say your L. shooteth faire though somewhat wide of the marke When by no witte nor cunning you are hable to make good your Chalenge yet then we must say that your L. lacketh no woordes and hath geuen a good Push towardes it To be shorte for these be the special pointes for whiche you accuse my vtterance of vncourtesie when you speake big and Goliathlike vpbraid al the hoste of God to witte the whole Catholique Churche of these laste thousand yeres what must we doo but to shew token of feare 1. Reg. 17. as the Israelites vnder king Saul did and geue backe that you may boast and crake alone Truly touching your dignitie what accompte so euer you make of your selfe I take you but for M. Iewel Bacheler of Diuinitie sometime person of Sunningwel betwen Oxford and Abington And that is the greatest degree that euer I knewe you called vnto If the Quenes Highnes of her special fauour towardes you haue geuen you the rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie you are the more bounde to thanke her and to consider what accompte you haue to make of it It is not money that can set you one steppe higher in ecclesiastical degree A Bishop you are not I am right sure neither can al the Kinges and Quenes of the worlde nor al the Parlamentes of England by any their owne onely power and auctoritie make you a lawful and a true Bishop The same I tolde you in my Confutation of your Apologie whiche point you haue not sufficiently answered as it shal appeare Yet was it very behoofful for you to haue fully answered But I beare with you as therein not lacking good wil but habilitie Study for it so long as you wil you shal neuer be hable to make it good that you are yet a right Bishop Therefore in this respecte you ought to beare with my bolde vtterance the more taking you for no greater man in right then you were when you subscribed in Oxford to the Real Presence to the Sacrifice of the Masse and to those other pointes that now you impugne so busily In very deede this muche I confesse that in case you were a Bishop though an vnworthy Bishop yea a wicked Bishop yet for the dignitie of that Vocation and for the Orders sake I should and would reuerence you accordingly Act. 23. Whereas it was tolde S. Paule after he had reuiled Ananias that he was the high Bishop he reuoked his worde and submitted him selfe to that was written Thou shalt not curse the gouernour of thy people Exod. 22. Whereby he doth vs to vnderstande that had he knowen he had benne no Bishop at al he woulde not haue reuoked his worde that in your opinion is vnciuile and vncourteous but haue let it stand in force You being as il a man as euer Ananias was and hauing done muche more spite vnto the Churche of Christe and more dishonour vnto God then euer he did beare with me for speaking truly and ernestly without flatterie Act. 23. The example of S. Paule saying to Ananias Thou painted wal not knowing him to be the high Bishop and yet occupying a more honorable roome then you are yet called vnto leadeth me not greatly to repent of any of those wordes spoken of you or of your felowes the Sacramentaries and Protestantes of our time whiche to impaire my credite you haue culled out of my Bookes and laid together in one heape And what so euer I haue written or said that toucheth your person specially and irketh you I take God to record therein I respected not M. Iewel the priuate man but M. Iewel the publique enemie of Christes Churche the professed Impugner of the Truth and Catholique Religion
more reuerently of Peter then of Iesus Christe 593. The Popes Aduocates Abbates Bishoppes open enemies to the Gospel 618. Your Popes Retainers 695. They make decrees expressely against Gods worde 620. The Pope wil plucke from vs the Gospel and al the confidence we haue in Christ Iesu 723. The Pope hath blinded the whole worlde this many hundred yeres and no man maie condemne him though he carrie awaie with him a thousand soules into hell 729. Frantike gouernement of the Pope 733. The second Councel of Nice was vaine peeuish wicked blasphemous 502. Before the Scriptures they preferre their owne Dreames 70. Hicke Scorners eloquence 356. Hicke Scorners logique 270. Hypocritical eloquence 2â—0 They are very Churche robbers 228. These shewes sales and markettes of Masses carrying about and worshipping of bread other idolatrous and blasphemous fondnesse 290. Blockish and olde wiues tale 296. Haruest of Massemongers 302. Truth is with crueltie and tyrannie kepte vnder 334. They agree together as the Phariseis and Saduceis as Herode and Pilate c. 342. The very foes of the Gospel and enemies to Christes Crosse 354 Your faction 611. 615. Aduoutrie ribaudrie whoredome murthering of kinne inceste brothel houses flockes of Concubines heardes of harlot haunters beastly sensualitie abominable naughtinesse 384. Like Anabaptistes and Libertines 395. Naughty personnes and hypocrites 429. They abhorre and flee the worde of God as a theefe flieth the gallowes 464. Ye rent in peeces and burne the ancient Fathers 500. Ye condemne the Scriptures 505. Your Droues and heardes of Monckes 508. They let concubines to ferme to their Priestes 510. Their cursed paltrie Seruice 511. They mumble vp their Seruice in a Barbarous tongue 515. The Canonistes at this daie for their bellies sake c. 560. They haue choked vp the fonteine of lyuing water with durtâ— and mire 573. They haue forsaken Christe and the Apostles 576. VVith most notorious sacriledge they seuer the Sacramentes 584. They leane to ignorance and darkenes 590. They haue spoiled and disanulled the ordinances and doctrine of the Primitiue Churche 592. Your wilful ignorance 602. Blinde Balams wilful purpose 602. They make decrees expressely against Goddes worde 620. They take parte with Annas and Caiphas Ibidem Vnlearned Bishoppes slow bellies 623. Errour Idolatrie Superstition tyrannie Pompe 626. The Councel of Trident is a Conspiracie not a Councel 626. Princes Ambassadours be vsed as mocking stockes at the Councelles 631. VVith spite they leaue out Princes 635. O glorious Thraso 640. They set not a iote by any point of religion saue that whiche concernes their bellie and riotte 642. This is proude this is spiteful Ibidem Princes be despitefully scorned and abused by them 697. They harden their hartes against God and his Christe 715. They are menne farre more vngraceous and wicked then any diceplaiers be 728. Tyrannie of the Popes kingdome 732. They were fooles and madde menne 733. A very spiteful dealing 54. Content thy selfe good Reader with these few taken out of the whole heape To laie forthe al were to printe his Huge booke againe For of suche stuffe in manner and of vaine Scoffes the whole consisteth Nowe bicause M. Iewel hath laid together an other Heape of wordes culled out of my bookes which of his courtesie he would needes calle Scoffes and Scornes here to make an euen reckening with him I haue thought good to returne vnto him coine of the same stampe tolde out of his owne bagges though it be more cankred then mine is Scoffes and Scornes be vnseemely saith M. Iewel Defence pag. 8. Scoffes and Scornes against God his Churche and his Sainctes I trow ye would proue that God the Father made holy water and said Masse 496. Christe an Abbate 66. S. Peter said masse with a golden Cope and a triple Crowne 300. The Apostles had keies geuen them but no house to open 163. As if Christe and the Pope were ioined purchasers 608. If Christe were not Christe then S. Patrike should be Christe 231. Peter and Paule had neuer Papale Christianitie 674. Sir Clement Iacke of Andrew 536. The Romaine faith was heard of through out the whole worlde and so was the Capitole of Rome 437. So long as the Churche of Rome can speake for her selfe al is wel 715. The spirite of Rome 606. S. Augustines vnceasoned fantasies 370. Sacramentarie Scoffes VVho taught M. Harding that Christe hath change of diuers bodies 86. Your shoppes and gaineful boothes 333. meant of Aulters Came Christe to saue bread and wine 254. Came the Sonne of man from heauen to saue Accidentes 254. VVhere was Christes bodie euer promised to your Mouth 274 The poore Spiritual Fourmes and holy Accidentes are put to al the paines 261. The man in the moone newly Christened 37. How can a few droppes of cold water bring vs to the hope of resurrection 221. These be their keies of the kingdome of heauen 249. Scoffes against the Pope Bishoppes and Priestes One Principal Archangel Pope in heauen 100. The Emperour was the Popes Summoner 671. The Pope a special Maister Keie 160. The Pope hath the holy Ghoste I trow at his commaundement 724. The Pope a lorde Paramounte 161. The Popes owne Minions and Champions 468. Dame Ioane the Pope 374. This is one of the Cardinalle vertues of Rome to take tolle of Bawdrie 369. in marg Princehoode 〈◊〉 â—postolique ioily large wordes and carry great sounde â—â—â— VVhat if Christeâ— Vicare him selfe be Antichrist 433. In Margine Your Pope no more a Bishop then Annas your Priest no more a Priest then the Priest of Dagon or Baal 659. Maie Bishoppes 664. Blinde Sir Robert the Archebishop of Armache 597. Blinde Sir Robert of Scotland and M. Pates of England seely poore Bishoppes 714. The blessed Bishoppes of the Second Nicen Councel 502. These be the great VVorthies of the worlde 714. Scoffes particular and general M. Harding skippeth into Goddes chaire 23. M. Hardinges mystical Catholique eares 232. So coye and careful M. Harding is for holy Fourmes and his kingdom of Accidentes 248. M. Hardinges Almanake 22. How long hath M. Harding benne a wisard 209. M. Hardinges face died in Scarlet 183. M. Harding Proctor for the Stewes 370. M. Hardinges Dimi Communion 195. M. Hardinges yong vntiedy Argumentes 650. Albertus Pighius the stowtest Gallant of your Campe. 24. M. Harding wil trouble his Godfathers and cause them to geue him a new name 416. M. Hardinges mouthe no iuste measure 8. If you had not studied your Copia verborum you could neuer haue benne so copious 388. And do you know his harte by towting in his eare 157. In Margine Alas your poore Chickens would die for colde 28. No Haralde could lightly haue said more in the matter 496. Al the same is substantially proued by tâ—â—â—oâ—â—e and deliuerie of a horse 499. It is not a Fearnbushe Ergo it is a Foxe 255. It is concluded in Louaine in great solemne sadnesse c. M. Hardinges Beaupeeres of Louaine 492. Your innumerable Louain Vanities 537. Your Louanian diuinitie
of your secte of whom you saie they see suche a light as vnder the Pope the worlde sawe not Of this it foloweth that the time then was in whiche Christe was not with you And so euery waie if Christes worde be true yours must be false M. Ievvel obiecteth agaiÌ„st the Churche as the old heretikes the Donatistes did But marke wel gentle Reader that whiche I wil now declare vnto thee M. Iewels obiectioÌ„ against the Church is the very olde obiection of the Donatistes For as M. Iewel saith here that it were to muche for vs hauing broken Gods commaundement c. yet neuerthelesse to binde Christe to his promise whiche was that his Church should continewe for euer and haue the Spirite of Truthe alwaies remaining in it So the Donatistes said ideo ex partibus terrarum August lib. 1. ca. 2 contra Epistol Parmen in quibus iam impletum erat perijsse Abraha semen quod est Christus euacuatas promissiones Dei quia ipsi non sunt admissi ad eorum communionem apud quos hoc iam retinebat orbis impletum That therefore the seede of AbrahaÌ„ that is Christ had perished froÌ„ out of other partes of the world where it had ben already fulfilled and therfore the promises of God touching the continuance of Christ with his Church to the worldes ende were made voide bicause they the Donatistes were not admitted to the Communion of those Christians in Fraunce Italie Spaine and other Christian Countries among whom the worlde kepte this promise of Christe already fulfilled They said the promise of Christes continuance was broken bicause al the other partes of the worlde besides and out of Africa communicated with Cecilianus and his successours whom they accused for * Traditores Deliuerers vp of the Scriptures in time of persecution and therefore accompted them for no parte of Christes Churche and refused to communicate with them euen as M. Iewel saith here that for our euil doinges Christe was not bound to his promise This obiection of the Donatistes seemed to a learned man of their owne secte Ticonius Ticonius by name vnreasonable and insufficient And therefore he wrote a booke of that matter to wit that the promises of God in the Scriptures for the continuance of his Churche vniuersally spred through the worlde could not possibly be broken through any wickednes of man or menne what soeuer This to be so S. Augustine witnesseth saying August li. 1. contra epist parmen ca. 1. Ticonius homo quidem acri ingenio praeditus vberi eloquio sed tamen Donatista omnibus sanctarum paginarum vocibus circumtusus euigilauit vidit Ecclesiam Dei toto orbe diffusam sicut de illo tanto antè per corda ora sanctorum praeuisum atque praedictum est Quo percepto suscepit aduersus ipsos suos demonstrare asserere nullius hominis quamuis sceleratum immane peccatum praescribere promissis Dei nec id agere quorumlibet intra Ecclesiam coÌ„stitutoruÌ„ quamlibet impietatem vt fides Dei de Ecclesiasâ—tura diffundenda vsque ad terminos orbis terra quae in promissis patruÌ„ retenta nunc exhibita est euacuaretur Ticonius a man endewed with a sharpe wit and with tongue at wil but yet a Donatist knockt vp on euery side with al the sayinges of the Bible waked out of slepe and saw the Church of God spred ouer al the worlde as thereof so loÌ„g time before by the hartes and by the mouthes of Saintes it was foresene and foretolde Which thing hauing perceiued he toke in hand against them of his own fide euideÌ„tly to shew and affirme that no mannes sinne being neuer so wicked and passing great doth prescribe against the promises of God and that no manner impietie of any what soeuer that be placed in the Church doth bring this to passe that the promise of God shuld be made void touching the Churche to come and to be spred abrode vnto the borders of the round world which promise was coÌ„tinued in the promises made to the Fathers of the old testameÌ„t and is now come to perfourmance Thus then wrote Ticonius the Donatiste being forced thereto by the very cleare euidence of holy Scripture Parmenianus an other Donatist foreseing as S. Augustin writeth that if the persuasion of Ticonius toke place then he and his felowes which did not coÌ„municate with the whole corps of Christendom should be no part of al the Catholik Church Dioscorde betvven the Gospellers as in olde time among the Donatistes so vniuersally dispersed and so being out of the Church should stand for Heretiques wrote first an epistle against this Ticonius and when that would not suffise procured him to be openly condeÌ„ned in a CouÌ„cel of their owne sect Euen as at this day the Lutherans write against the Sacramentaries as Westphalus against Caluine Brentius against Bullinger Illyricus against Beza Peter Martyr against BreÌ„tius Heshusius against Boquine condemning one the other al being protestants or rather as they wil be named Gospellers Against the foresaid Epistle of Parmenianus written as I said against Ticonius S. Augustin wrote three bookes learnedly defending the Scriptures alleged by Ticonius to proue that no impietie of men what soeuer and how great soeuer it were can possibly be hable to driue Christ to breache of his promise concerning the perpetuitie of his Churche in many Nations and the assistence of the holy Ghost therein You therefore M. Iewel that thinke it much for vs to claime by the promise of Christe bicause by our wretchednes he should no more be bound to his promise The Donatistes Heresie renevved by M. Ievvel do plainely renewe the wicked and detestable opinion of the Donatist Parmenian whom S. Augustine so largely confuteth I remitte the learned to the said worke of S. Augustine specially to the second booke The vnlearned I remitte to a late writteÌ„ Treatise intituled The Fortresse The Fortresse annexed to the historie of Venerable Bede translated into Englishe where he shal finde suche scriptures as proue an vniuersal and knowen continuance of Christes Churche largely laied forth and prosecuted out of the Psalmes the Prophetes and the new testament To be short therefore An Argument prouing this nevv Congregation not to be the true Churche of Christ I frame you once againe this argumeÌ„t The true Church of Christ is such a multitude as hath had euermore in al ages and times Christe present and the Spirit of truth remaining with it Your Congregation is such as was not extant in the earth many hundred yeres together before Luther was borne and therefore can not be said to haue had that presence of Christ Ergo your Congregation is not the true Church of Christ The Maior is euident by Christes owne promise and by your owne Confession The Minor you confesse also both in your Apologie and in this pretensed Defence as I said before The Conclusion therefore remaineth
great folie I wil not saie also a blasphemie A great folie it is for you and your felowes to contemne the General Councelles of late yeres for that they be newe as you say your selues and your doctrine being yet so newe and of so litle age Verely no age or time of Christes Churche to any Christen man ought to seeme newe in respecte of doctrine and faith If he beleeue the holy Scriptures describing the Church vnto vs he can not without folie in that respecte cal it newe The time may be newe or late bicause it commeth and passeth The Faithe and Doctrine remaineth one and the same not changed with the course of times Nowe as the Worde of God and our Faithe dureth for euer so Christes Churche being one and the same as it hath in al ages continewed so shal it continewe to the worldes ende This before hath benne prooued and by your selfe confessed The Councelles therefore I meane the doctrine of Faith opened discussed and agreed vppon in Councelles by the Bisshoppes whom the holy Ghost hath ordeined to rule the Churche Act. 20. Ephes 4. and by the Pastours and Doctours whome God placeth to the edefying of the Churche that we be not carried awaie by euerie winde of doctrine is not newe The discussion and plaine opening of it may be newe The doctrine is olde as truth it selfe is olde Ansvver to the obiection of the later CouÌ„celles being contrarie to the olde Your second cause why these later Councelles doo beare with you the lesse Authoritie is for that as you say they be so many waies contrarie to the olde It had benne good reason that if these later Councelles be so many waies contrarie to the olde you had shewed presently at the lest one of those so many waies Shal it be sufficient for you to geue out such a Reproche iâ— a matter of so greate Importance without any prousâ— at al It had benne plaine dealing at the lest to haue named some one Councel and to haue touched some one pointe wherein that Councel should be founde contrarie to the olde This therefore I lette passe for a Notorious and a Reprocheful Vntruthe boldely auouched but no waie proued Onely I aduertise the Reader that it is not possible any general Councel shoulde be contrarie to an other in matter of faith One Churche one faith and necessarie doctrine As the Churche in Faith is but one so the Faith discussed determined and agreed vpon in Councelles truely representing the whole body of the Churche is but one As the Churche can not be contrarie to it selfe in Faith so general Councelles assembled in the holy Ghoste can not be contrarie to them selues Marke wel good Sir what I saie One general Councel can not in a matter of faith be contrary to an other CouÌ„cel Math. 18. In doctrine and matter of Faith no lawful General Councel truely and rightly that is in vnitie and Charitie assembled hath or can at any time determine contrarie to an other likequalified For so the one should erre in Faith whereby Christes promise should seeme to faile who said wheresoeuer two or three are assembled together in my name there am I in the middest of them In my name faith S. Cyprian that is in vnitie and in the body That later Councelles haue determined some matters not before in other Councelles determined it is euident and not denied Heresies haue caused many matters to be more opened then they were before as S. Augustine noteth But new articles of the faith be not decreed in CouÌ„celles That also in matter of manners and of external order or gouernement some Councelles haue done coÌ„tratrarie to other according to the state of times and diuersitie of circumstances it is not denied Yea that it be so done sometime the state and present case of the Church of necessitie requireth it Aug. epist 5. ad Marcellinum For which S. Augustin saith notably Non itaque verum est quod dicitur semel rectè factum nullatenus esse mutanduÌ„ Mutata quippe teÌ„poris causa quod rectè antè factuÌ„ suerat ita mutari vera ratio pleruÌ„que flagitat vt cuÌ„ ipsi dicant rectè noÌ„ fieri si mutetur contrà veritas clamet rectè non fieri nisi mutetur quia vtruÌ„que tunc erit rectuÌ„ si erit pro teÌ„poruÌ„ varietate diuersum It is not therefore true which meÌ„ say looke what thing is once wel done it ought in no case to be changed For the state of the time being altered that thing which was wel done before good reason oftentimes requireth so to be changed that whereas they say it is not wel done if it be changed the truth on the other side crieth out It is not weldone if it be not changed bicause both shal then be right and wel if it shal be diuers according to the varietie of the time But that in matter of faith or doctrine Ansvver to that M Iâ—vvel obiecteth against the later CouÌ„cels for that by the same al our doctrines vvhiche they impugne 〈◊〉 conâ—irmed as is a fore said any General Councel lawfully assembled was euer contrarie to the other it is a mere vntruthe and a false sclaunder that can neuer be proued Where you say for a third cause or reason why these later CouÌ„cels are of lesse autoritie for that there is none of our errours so grosse and palpable but by some of them it hath ben coÌ„firmed to that we answer Quod das accipâ—mê° we admit gladly that in these late CouÌ„cels al such matters as we defend which it pleaseth yau to terme grosse and palpable errours haue ben confirmed We are then discharged and the whole Church of late yeres is charged But Sir being confirmed by General Councelles why cal you them Errours grosse and Palpable Saie you not also herein that the whole Churche erred at that time grossely and palpably Let vs take one Councel and one Age for example to auoide confusion of general discoursing and to bring this matter to some cleare issue The Lateran Councel vnder Innocentius 3. In the yere of our Lorde 1215. aboue three hundred yeres past in the General Councel holden at S. Iohn Laterane in Rome with ful consent of a thousand two hundred fourescore and fiue Fathers assembled there out of al partes of Christendome as wel out of the East Church as out of the West the Ambassadours and Oratours as wel of both Emperours being present as also of diuers other Kinges Princes and States it was by mature discussion found TransubstaÌ„tiatioÌ„ and agreed vpon and decreed so to be beleeued that in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter due consecration being made the substance of breade is changed into the substance of the body of Christ and the substance of wine into the substaÌ„ce of his bloode the worde Transubstantiation whereby much that belongeth to that mysterie is by a coÌ„modious breuitie expressed was allowed the opinion of Berengarius was condeÌ„ned
This declaration and determination you take to be a grosse and a palpable errour For you are not ashamed you saie of Berengarius doctrine But Sir if this were a grosse and a palpable Errour how say you then did al those Patriarkes Archebisshoppes Bishoppes Abbates Doctours and learned Priestes grossely and palpably erre Did the Emperours both of the Grecians and of the Latines the Kinges of Fraunce Spaine England Hierusalem Cyprus whose Ambassadours and Oratours were there representing the personnes of their Princes and people to them subiecte did al these also erre with al their people and subiectes grossely and palpably This question then I demaund of you M. Iewel At these daies and in that age where was the Churche of Christe By you al erred grossely and palpably Berengarius him selfe whose doctrine was there condemned had both recanted his Heresie that you holde now and was longe before that time dead and buried There was not a man liuing at that daie who was knowen in the vnitie of the Churche to maineteine that doctrine whiche that Councel condemned and whiche you now doo mainteine Only Almaricus Almaricus is noted of the Chronographers to haue liued about the time of that Councel and to haue holden the heresie of Berengarius Pantaleō Bernard Lutzenburg Gaguinus Lib. 6. Pag. 48. But M. Iewel hath plainely renounced this Almaricus He said before of Abailard and Almarike and certaine other we haue no skil They are none of ours Then as I said there was not so muche as one man knowen at that time in the vnitie of the Churche and allowed by your iudgement to haue holden the opinion by that General Councel condemned This being so either that Councel helde the vnitie of Christes Churche or elles at that time Christe had no Churche at al. But Christes Churche endureth for euer Pag. 32. you haue your felfe before confessed it therefore we must beleue that the said Councel helde the vnitie of Christes Church and the doctrine by the Fathers of the same approued is the true and Catholique doctrine of the Churche and your Sacramentarie opinion to the contrarye at this daie is a condemned heresie In like sorte by Induction we might discourse of the other General Councelles But this one for example maie suffice to proue that the same pointes of doctrine which you cal grosse and palpable Errours M. Ievvel acknovvlegeth al the partes of doctrine vvher in he varieth from vs to be approued by the Churche in General Councelles fully discussed and confirmed in Councelles are no Errours at al but Catholike verities and truthes tried and confirmed by the highest and most infallible Authoritie that is in earth And we haue al good cause to reioise M. Iewel that by the force of truthe ye are driuen so freely and so plainely to graunt vnto vs the confirmation and Approbation of Councelles for al such pointes of doctrine as we defende against you termed by you modestly I trowe and without heate or choler Grosse and palpable Errours He must needes be a great fauourer of your secte that vpon the warrant of your mouth only wil holde the general determinations of Councelles for grosse and palpable Errours And very grosse must he be that seeth not the proude Luciferly sprite breathing forth of you in such a malapert and sawcy controllement of them whom God ordeined in their time to gouerne his Church No no M. Iewel your mouth is no iuste measure your penne is no right square your verdite is very insufficient for a dew resolutiō thereof to be taken in matters of such importance Yet haue you forsooth an example for your so doing and that of no lesse man then S. Augustine him selfe For thus you inferre to iustifie your former asseuerations Iewel Ibidem August Contra Maximin lib. 3. c. 14. Therefore vve maie iustly saie to you as S. Augustine sometime said to Maximinus the Arian heretike Neither maie I laie to thee the Councel of Nice nor maiest thou laie to me the Councel of Ariminum either of vs thinking thereby to finde preiudice against the other But let vs laie matter to matter cause to cause and reason to reason by the Authoritie of the Scriptures Harding How litle this place of S. Augustine serueth M. Iewels purpose and how falsly by him it is alleged How your therefore foloweth M. Iewel I see not The .19 Chapt. excepte you wil reason thus The later Councelles haue confirmed grosse and palpable errours Therefore you wil not that we should laye them against you no more then S. Augustine would laye the Nicene Coūcel against Maximinus the Arian See you not howe vntowardly this your therefore foloweth For admit that we graunted you that the late Councelles were erroneous which we wil not ne may not in any wise graunt you yet you wil not I trowe saie that the Nicene Councel also was erroneous If the Nicene Coūcel were not erroneous but a most Autentike and Catholique Councel what deduction can you make from the one to the other If S. Augustine had refused the Nicene Councel as you refuse the late Councelles that is if he had condemned the Nicene Councel of grosse and palpable errours as you doo condemne the later Councelles then had the example of S. Augustine serued your turne this being presupposed that these later Councelles were suche as you sclaunder them to be Now S. Augustine doth not so put of the Nicene Councel either as an erroneous Councel or as an Authoritie insufficient whereby to controlle the Heretike but partely bicause the Heretike quarelled about the name of an other Councel at Ariminum which was no lawful Councel in deede but a schismatical and heretical conuenticle and yet were there at it 800. Bishoppes but for wante of Damasus the Popes confirmation Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 23. Theodor. lib. 2. cap. 21. as Sozomenus and Theodoritus doo write it was accompted for none partely also bicause he sawe him selfe sufficiently instructed otherwise with holy scriptures to confute the Arian For these two causes to cut of occasion of longer brabling and to drawe the sooner to an issue for it was in an open disputation before a multitude not in priuate writinges carried to and fro S Augustine was content to laie aside the aduantage that he had of the Nicene Councel vpon condition the Arian would brable no more of the Councel of Ariminum This did S. Augustine of Christian policie and by occasion then ministred and not as geuing example to others to shake of al Authoritie of Councelles as you doo M. Iewel of a great many Againe you require vs to presse you no more with the late general Councelles of Laterane of Constāce of Florence of Trent and such other as the Arian required not to be pressed with the Nicene but you haue not so much as the name of one Councel of your parte for the whiche we might by waie of composition yelde our Councelles that you also might yelde
yours as the Arians had the names of that of Ariminum and certaine other Councelles holden by the Arians Your heresies God be praised haue not yet prospered so much that ye might haue hundreds of Bishoppes to assemble and determine on your side as the Arians had Therefore againe your case is very vnlike and your example of S. Augustine and the Arian very vneuen When you haue Councelles on your fitlâ— that shal make for the proufe of your Doctrine and for condemnation of our Doctrine then maye this place of S. Augustine seeme to serue your purpose Last of al your accustomed legierdemaine in citing this place openeth your falshood For in the sentence immediatly going before the wordes by you alleged S. Augustine professeth plainely the authoritie of the Nicene Councel to haue ben sufficient for conuincing of the Arian heretike Thus he saith Hoc est illud Homusion Lib. 3. ca. 14. contra MaximinuÌ„ ArianuÌ„ quod in Concilio Niceno aduersus haereticos Arianos à Catholicis patribus veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate firmatum est This is that Doctrine concerning Homusion whiche in the Councel of Nice was confirmed against the Arian heretiques with the Authoritie of Truthe and with the Truthe of Authoritie S. Augugustine falsly alleged by M. Ievv vvordes of chiefe importaÌ„ce quite lefte out Sed nunc Streight after it foloweth Sed nunc nec ega c. But now at this present neither wil I laye against thee c. as before you alleged it These wordes Sed nunc But nowe whiche importe the doing of S. Augustine to haue ben but for that present time and occasion and doo shewe that he meant not generally to renounce the Nicene Councel those wordes I saie M. Iewel you quite leafte out alleging S. Augustines wordes in such sorte as if he had peremptorily and precisely protested that the Arian had ben no more bounde to the Authoritie of the Nicene Councel then he him selfe was bounde to the Councel of Ariminum Whereas both before he plainely protested that the Catholike Fathers of the Nicene Councel had determined against the Arian heretiques veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate By authoritie of Truth and by truthe of Authoritie and also in this later saying restrained him selfe only to the time present for cause beforâ— mencioned O how would that blessed Father be agreeued if now he were a liue and sawe his sayinges so peruersly wrested to a sense by him neuer meant nor intended and that drawen to mainetenance of heresie wherein he relented for better meanes to be had towardes the Confutation of heresie In what credite and estimation S. Augustine had General Councelles The 20. Chapt. Howbeit this blessed Father touching the credite and authoritie of lawful Councelles not only in this present place as it now appeareth but also in others of his workes hath written so circumspectly and warely that excepte heretiques were of very purpose and mere wilfulnesse sette to peruerte the truthe they coulde neuer haue piked out of his sayinges so muche as any colour of aduantage to the preiudice of Councelles Contrarywise to the aduauncement of their credite and estimation he writeth in sundry places Verely to the Donatistes being confuted and conuinced by a great Assemblie of the Aphrican Bishoppes August epist 152. Ad populuÌ„ factionis Donatiaâ—a he saith Nulla excusatio iam remansit Nimium dura nimium diabolica sunt hominum corda quae adhuc tantae manifestationi veritatis obsistunt There remaineth now no excuse The hartes of menne are too too harde and too too deuilish whiche doo yet withstande the truth so clearely opened vnto them How much better may we saie this vnto you and your companions M. Iewel whose heresies haue ben detected and learnedly confuted in the late General Councel of Trent vnto the whiche out of al Catholique Countries of Christendome Bishopes and the best learned menne were assembled Againe disputing against the errour of S. Cyprian touching the rebaptizing of such as heretiques had baptized in the ende he concludeth with the Authoritie of a General Councel and protesteth that he him selfe would not haue ben so bolde as in such sorte to confute that holy Fathers opinion excepte he had had the General Councel on his side These are his wordes August de Baptismo coÌ„tra Donatist li. 2. cap. 4. Nec nos ipsi tale aliquid auderemus asserere nisi vniuersae Ecclesiae concordissima authoritate firmati cui ipse sine dubio cederet si iam illo tempore quaestionis huius veritas eliquata declarata per plenarium ConciliuÌ„ solidaretur Neither should we be so bolde as to affirme so much but that we are assuredly vpholden with the authoritie of the most vniforme consent of the vniuersal Church To the which S. Cyprian him selfe would vndoubtedly haue yeelded if at that time the truth of this question being boulted out and made cleare had benne by a ful general Councel established In like manner he vrgeth the Pelagians saying August CoÌ„tra Iulianum .li. 3. cap. 1. Vestra verò apud competens Iudicium communiuÌ„ episcoporum causa modò finita est Nec amplius vobiscuÌ„ agenduÌ„ est quantuÌ„ ad ius examinis pertinet nisi vt prolataÌ„ de hac re sententiaÌ„ cuÌ„ pace sequamini Quòd si nolueritis a turbulenta vel seditiosa inquietudine cohibeamini Your matter is now ended by sufficient iudgemeÌ„t of Bishops from al partes Neither ought we now to haue further dealing with you as touching right of examination to be made but now it behoueth that yâ— folowe peacebly the verdite whiche hath 〈◊〉 pronounced of this matter And if ye wil not yet that ye be restrained from al troblesome and seditious disorder August Epist 118. ad Ianuarium Last of al speaking of General Councelles he saith Quorum est in Ecclesia saluberrima authoritas their Authoritie in the Churche is most holsome And bicause M. Iewel findeth him selfe agreeued witâ— the later Councelles and is offended with the newnesse of them and claimeth by former Councels and preteÌ„deth to folow the Apostles owne Traditions let vs see what S. Augustine of whom he would so faine borow helpe if it would be wil saie for him Whereas the Donatistes for their rebaptizing of such as the Catholiques had baptized alleged th' Apostles Tradition and neglected a late General CouÌ„cel assembled against their opinion holding vpon a more auncient Tradition euen such as came from the Apostles to them in this case S. Augustine saith thus Nec quisquam dicat August li. 4. cap. 7. de Baptis coÌ„tra Donatistas quod accepimus ab Apostolis hoc sequimur Quatò robustiuo nuÌ„c dicimus Quod ecclesiae coÌ„suetudo semper tenuit quod haec disputatio dissuadere noÌ„ potuit et quod plenariuÌ„ Concilium coÌ„firmauit hoc sequimur Neither let any man saie as the Donatistes said and as Protestantes now saie we folowe that which we haue
receiued of the Apostles Howe muche more stronger is that we saie now we folowe that which the Custome of the Church hath euermore holden whiche al this reasoning to and fro hath not ben able to plucke out of mens hartes and last of al which a ful General Councel hath confirmed So highly esteemed S. Augustine those things August li. 2. de Baptisme cap. 9. which M. Iewel of al other maketh lest accompt of And againe he saieth Concilia posteriora prioribus apud posterâ—s praepâ—nuntur Later CouÌ„cels preferred before the former for what cause The posteritie preferreth the Later Councelles before the Former Not as though the later should be contrarie to the former but bicause in the later CouÌ„cels the Church is alwaies better instructed through the contradictions of heretikes by occasion whereof matters are more exactely searched discussed and more clearely opened Like as the flint stoanes being knokte harde together fier flieth out and corne the more ye fifte it the purer it is tried so truthe by our aduersaries Contradictions is beaten out and doubteful pointes by long discussion and search are made plaine and cleare Therefore againe he saith Ibidem .li. 2. cap. 3. Ipsa plenaria Concilia saepe priora posterioribus emendantur cúm aliquo experimento rerum aperitur quod clausum erat cognoscitur quod latebat The very former general Councells are oftentimes corrected by the later Councells when as by some trial of maâ—â—er that thing is opened whiche before was close shut vp and that is knowen whiche before laie hid Yeâ— and this is the chiefe and best fruite The benefit and fruite of heresies August in Psal 54. super versum Diuisi sunt prae ira c. that heresies bring vnto the Churche as the same S. Augustine otherwhere declareth where he saith The matter of the blessed Trinitie was neuer wel discussed vntil the Arianâ— barked against it The Sacrament of Penaunce was neuer throughly handled vntil the Nouatians beganne to withstande it Neither the cause of Baptisme was wel discussed vntil the rebaptizing Donatistes arose and troubled the Churche Thus M. Iewel if you geue eare vnto S. Augustine whose example you seeme to claime by you shal learne of him not to refuse and renounce the authoritie of General Councels but to obey them and to yeeld dew reuerence vnto them yea though they be later and as you cal them new Truth draue M. Iewel to iustifie al our Doctrine wherein he dissenteth from vs. The 21. Chap. This oddes therefore remaineth betwen you and vs that our doctrine yea euery pointe thereof in cotrouersie now is by your owne confession approued by the later General Councelles and so we defende no doctrine of our owne nor mainteine any prophane Nouelties of our owne deuise but we folowe Saluberrimam authoritatem the most holesome and sounde authoritie as S. Augustine termeth it of General Councels that is to saie we folowe the voice of the whole bodie of Christes Churche most truely represented in Councelles the voice of Christes spouse yea the voice of Christe him selfe speaking to vs by his Churche and so speaking that he willeth him whiche heareth not the Churche to be accompted for a Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publicane Contrariewise your Doctrine M. Iewel is not only not authorized in General Councelles but also is clearely condemned by the same as for example that one maie serue in steede of many the General Councel of Laterane condemneth your Sacramentarie heresie Yet we thanke not you but the truthe that you haue this muche confessed for vs. And as S. Augustine said of the Donatistes so we saie most truely of you Vt illa omnia vel loquendo vel legendo pro causa nostra promerent atque propalarent Aug. contra Donatist post collat ca. 34. veritas eos torsit non charitas inuitauit That the Donatistes shoulde vtter and bring forthe either by talke or by allegation out of a booke al those thinges for behoofe of our matter the truth forced them it was not any charitie that inuited them The truthe I saie M. Iewel not any loue you beare to our cause forced you to confesse that there is none of our errours so you terme sundry weightie pointes of the Catholike Faith that by some of the late Councelles hath not benne confirmed We take that you geue vs right gladly in asmuch as it declareth you to be conuinced by witnesse of your owne mouthe For if the pointes of Faith and Religion wherein ye dissent from vs be approued and confirmed by authoritie of the Churche in General Councelles who seeth not what a good staffe we haue to leane vnto And who is that Christian man whiche wil not humbly beleue the same The Thirde Booke conteineth a Detection of certaine Lies Cauilles Sclaunders c. vttered by M. Iewel in the second parte of his pretensed Defence Iewel Pag. 88. VVhere ye fantasie that the Bodie of Christe in the Sacramente hath in it selfe neither Fourme nor Proportion nor Limitation of place nor Distinction of partes S. Augustine telleth you Spatia locorum tolle c. Take awaie from Bodies Limitation of place and the Bodies wil be no where Augu. ad DardanuÌ„ epist 57. And bicause they be nowhere they wil be nothing Take awaie from Bodies the qualities of Bodies there wil be no place for them to be in and therefore the same Bodies muste needes be no Bodies at al. Hereof vve maie conclude that the Bodie of Christe vvhich you haue imagined to be contiened grosly and carnally in the Sacrament for as much as by your ovvne confession it hath neither Qualitie nor Quantitie nor Fourme nor place nor proportiâ—â— of Bodie therefore by S. Augustines doctrine it is no Bodie Harding Answer to the Obiection made out of S. Augustine to Dardanus against the real presence of Christes Bodie in the Blessed Sacrament The. 1. Chapt. THE great confidence you haue in S. Augustines two sayinges in his 57. Epistle to Dardanus may much better serue your turne to skirmish with Brentius a Master of youres Brentius the autor of the heresie of the Vbi quetaries and a graund Captaine emong the Lutherans who spareth not by publique write to teache the world that Christes Humanitie is euerie where as his Diuinitie is then against the Catholique doctrine of Christes Bodily presence in the Blessed Sacrament wherein no suche errour is allowed that Christes humanitie should be euery where with his Godhead but it is auouched that Christe by his omnipotent power doth make his Bodie present in as many places as the Blessed Sacrament is duely Natural qualities suspeÌ„ded from Bodies by Goddes special povver Exod. 3. Daniel 3. Exod. 14. and rightly consecrated You are not ignorant M. Iewel but that you know that God by his special power hath suspended from diuers sortes of Bodies sundrie natural Qualities as he did suspende the action of burning from the Fire as wel in the
thus by secrete confession he leaueth vs fiue hundred three score and sixe vvhole yeres at the least that is to say the vvhole time of Christe of his Apostles and al the Godly learned Doctours and Fathers of the primitiue Churche c. Harding That by no such secrete Confession I haue graunted them the first fiue hundred yeres c. The. 5. Chapt. To bring M. Iewel once to feele his palpable grosnesse in mistaking one thing for an other thus I made my reason Christes promise is as wel warranted to the Church◠for the later thousand yeres as for the firste fiue hundred But it saued the Churche from errour the firste fiue hundred yeres by your owne Confession M. Iewel Ergo it hath saued the Churche from errour the later thousand yeres Where is the secret confession that I gaue you the firste fiue hundred yeres of light and lefte to my selfe the later thousand of Darkenesse It lieth you vpon to driue out that my secrete Confession by some woordes of myne whiche you shal neuer be hable to doo or elles to reuoke and agnise your wilful malice or your grosse ignorance If ye had any place of Scripture that said Christes promises were no longer warranted to the Churche then for the space of the first fiue hundred yeres you had some colour to triumphe But suche places of Scripture haue ye none nay ye haue the contrarie both for the presence of Christes special assistance Math. vlt. Iohan. 14. Esai 59. and of the holy Ghostes vnto the ende of the worlde What Scripture haue ye then to warrant the first fiue hundred yeres more then the later thousand Here I cal earnestly vpon you to answere Tel vs haue ye any Scripture to warrant the one more then the other No doubtelesse I am wel assured thereof And doth M. Iewel now that was woont to cal so busily for Scripture Scripture make warrant of the one more then of the other without al Scripture Yet once againe I cal vpon you to tel vs in what parte of that sentence is my secrete Confession conteined that al the first fiue hundred yeres are yours Tel it to my shame if you can spare me not If you can by hooke or crooke by wresting wringing racking or by any good drifte of reason boult out any suche secrete Confession of myne A free and liberal offer made to M. Ievv marke wel what I saie M. Iewel when you haue done it in deede as I am wel assured you shal neuer be hable I doo promise faithfully to yelde vnto you in al the rest of your Articles vppon Condition that if you do it not you shal in like manner yeelde to al the Articles of the Catholike Doctrine wherein I haue trauailed against you Lo here is a faire offer who can denie it Take it if you dare If you refuse it take the shame to your selfe Touchinge Lirinensis of whom in this place you speake besides all reason who geueth three Notes to knowe what Doctrine is Catholique you make suche a prety Limitation of his saying Pag. 94. that his three Notes so limited shall neuer stande vs in any steede Lirinensis purpose was to shewe vs certaine assured notes or markes how to know what doctrine is Catholique and what is heretical and erroneous thereby to instructe vs how to beware of false doctrine VVhat is Catholik by Lirinensis That is Catholique saith he that euery where euer more and of al personnes hath benne beleeued that is whereas the Churches were not corrupted saith your fond◠limitation and special Restraint But the Churches saith Lirinensis that teache doctrine agreable with these three notes of Vniuersalitie can not be corrupted in doctrine For these are the very true notes whereby to knowe sownde Catholique doctrine from corrupte as he auoucheth neither he only but S. Augustine also Wherevpon it foloweth that M. Iewels newe founde Limitatiō and special Restraint is a very vaine toie of his owne deuise Yea the Limitation as it is vttered vtterly destroieth Lirinensis general rule of his three Notes to know Catholique and vncorrupte doctrine If that which hath ben beleeued euery where euermore of al personnes may be corrupte doctrine then are both Lirinensis and S. Augustine vtterly deceiued in geuing vs such deceitful Notes Aug. li. de Genes ad literā imperfect cap. 1. and M. Iewels Limitation and special Restrainte must take place On the other side if that doctrine whiche hath ben beleeued euery where euermore and of al personnes can not be but true Catholique and vncorrupte doctrine then may M. Iewel put vp his Limitation and special Restrainte in his purse which he expressed by these wordes whereas the Churches were not corrupted Verely the same is vtterly vnsauery and hath no grounde of learning nor of witte nor of common reason To liue euery where euermore emong al sortes of menne honestly to hurte no man to geue al other menne their owne are three special Notes taught by Iustinian for menne to know who doo liue Ciuilly vnder the lawe But M. Iewel if he plaie with Iustinian as he hath with Lirinensis and S. Augustine wil not leaue the matter so rawly he wil rush in with a Limitation and a special Restrainte saying it is to be vnderstanded whereas he that so liueth committeth or offendeth nothing against the lawe If it would please him to take a daie to consider the matter better he might see that he who keepeth him selfe within these Notes or preceptes appointed by Iustinian dothe no more offende against the Lawe of man in dooing then the Churches that teache doctrine agreable with Lirinensis and S. Augustines Notes offende against the Lawe of God in beleeuing which doctrine of necessitie must be vncorrupte and the Churches likewise that so teache must of necessitie be in doctrine vncorrupte if S. Augustine and Lirinensis say true But iuggle on M. Iewel your false plaie shal doo no great harme as long as it commeth to light in this sorte alwaies to your owne shame Iewel Pag. 94. The Catholique Churche of God standeth not in multitude of personnes but in vveight of Truth Harding That the Catholique Churche standeth in a multitude of personnes which M. Iewel denieth If not in multitude of personnes The. 6. Chapt. why then allege you this place of S. Augustine Aug. li. de Genes ad literā imperfect cap. 1. to choke your selfe with al Saith he not the Churche is called Catholica Catholique quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est Bicause she is vniuersally perfite and halteth in nothing and is not nowe shutte vp in one onely Countrie as the Churche of the Iewes but powred throughout the whole worlde If the Churche be powred throughout the whole worlde then must it needes stand in multitude of personnes onlesse your wisedome can conceiue a Churche spred throughout the whole worlde without a multitude of personnes that
so it be imagined to be planted in stockes stones trees grasse rootes fire water earth aier and brute beastes If not in multitude of personnes why is it said dominabitur à mari ad mare Psal 71. à flumine vsque ad terminos orbis terrarum he shal beare rule from sea to sea and from the riuer to the vttermost coastes of the world If not in multitude of persons what meant God the Father to say vnto Christ his Sonne Psal 2. as Dauid prophecied Aske of me and I wil geue vnto thee the Nations for thine inheritance and the endes of the earth for thy possession If not in multitude of personnes Apologie why triumphe ye so in your Apologie bicause al the worlde doth nowe beginne as you saie to beholde the light of your Gospel mightily spred abroade If not in multitude of personnes why is it said to Abraham Gen. 22. in semine tuo benedicentur omnes gentes in thy seede al nations shal be blessed Why is it said to the Apostles Math. vlt. euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos in nomine patris filij Spiritus sancti Goo ye and teache ye al nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghoste Why sayd Christe to his Apostles Act. 1. Eritis mihi testes in Hierusalem in omni Iudaea Samaria vsque ad vltimum terrae Ye shal beare witnesse of me in Hierusalem and in al Iewrie and in Samaria and vnto the vttermost partes of the worlde Knowe you not M. Iewel This opinion of M. Ievvel tendeth to the heresie of the Donatistes that S. Augustine allegeth al these and many mo such places against the Donatistes And what meane you After al these Heresies of our wretched time shal we haue also a Donatiste of you Menne marueile much why you are so contrarie to your selfe and that you lacke the discretion to discerne what maketh with you and what maketh against you What discretion was that to bring in S. Augustines authoritie that saith the Churche is called Catholique bicause it is spred throughout the whole worlde to prooue that the Catholique Churche standeth not in multitude of personnes Can the Churche be spred abrode into euery parte of the worlde without multitude of personnes Pag. 94. Or wil ye the two personnes you talke of out of Fortalitium Fidei M. Ievvel saieth the Catholique Churche standeth in the vveight of Truth and as for personnes it may stand in tvvo should bodily replenish euery quarter of the worlde and contrarie to your selfe graunt that one body may be in diuerse places at one time Or wil you the Weight of Truthe wherein the Catholique Churche standeth as you saie to wander rounde aboute the worlde tanquam accidens sine subiecto Or meane you by your two personnes out of Fortalitium alleged to appointe the Churche to be onely not as the Donatistes did in Aprica alone excluding al the quarters of the worlde besides whiche is more tolerable but in some two personnes as for example your selfe perhappes and M. Grindal or Frier Whitehed or Frier Couerdal or some one or other of the Puritanes and that al the rest of the Realme are no members of your Catholique Churche Or meane you in the excluding of the multitude of personnes to leaue your selfe some refuge if it happen your number to decay to the inuisible Churche as ye were wont to doo being driuen into any narrowe streightes by drifte of reason where menne shal haue as muche comforte of preaching of the Sacramentes and of good examples as the hungrie man hath comforte in his great hunger if it be his fortune to finde a stone Consider wel of your folie M. Iewel in the allegation of S. Augustine and weigh with your iudgement how contrary he is to your doctrine Aug. li. de Genes ad literaÌ„ imperfect cap. 1. He saith that the Catholique Churche is vniuersally perfited and halteth in nothing Meaning thereby that the Churche can not erre ne can not be deceiued This speaketh he expressely of the Churche that is spred throughout the whole worlde that is to say of the visible Churche Your doctrine is that the visible Churche doth erre hath erred and may erre as wel in Doctrine as in manners Thus you see your lucke is very il in the allegation of Fathers in that you beare vs in hande they make with you when they make fully against you Ibidem The truthe say you be it in many or in fewe is euer Catholique And what if it were in none at al Were it not also Catholique If no then the substance of truthe as it is truthe muste needes depende vppon some person and to haue the same called Catholique Lirinensis and S. Augustine telleth you that it must be euery where euermore and of al sortes of menne be beleeued If yea then haue ye once found out a Catholike truthe and a Catholique Churche planted not onely in a fewe personnes but in no personnes at al. The case that Fortalitium Fidei setteth out by waie of supposition which you allege though vntruly as your custom is for his wordes are not duo homines but duo veri fideles hath taken place in Adam and Eue Also in Noe and his smal familie But take the worlde as it is now ful of people I aske you whether it be agreable with Scripture to saie that the Catholique Church consisteth onely and alone in any two personnes as for exemple in M. Iewel if you wil and Sir Iames Proctor your worthy Chauncellour or in any two others But how saie you wil not the Prophete Dauid be founde altogether contrarie and put you in minde of the verse Postula à me Psal 2. dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam possessionem tuam terminos terrae Aske of me saith the Prophete in the person of God the Father speaking of the dilatation of Châ—istes Churche and I wil geue thee the Gentiles for thine inheritance and thy possession the vttermost Coastes of the worlde Can you M. Iewel make that narrow and smal to serue your turne which the whole Scripture openly auoucheth to be great and large Whereas you defende Luthers dogge eloquence by the great zeale he had of Goddes glorie and of his holy Temple Luthers eloqueÌ„ce defended by M. Ievvel eadem Pag. 94. Matthaeus Iudex after that you haue once read ouer Matthaeus Iudex a Lutheran and seene how Luther raileth at Oecolampadius and Zuinglius your graund Captaines yea the patriarkes of your progenie and considered by what names he calleth them saying they are as euil as the Deuil him selfe it is likely you wil repente that you euer became his aduocate who so roughly handleth them that are the founders of your owne Synagog In the very nexte line before you allege my wordeâ— with the vehemencie of whiche you doo greatly dislike your selfe in
we maie not beleeue the Pope if he be of a contrarie iudgement to Scripture Why did not you first proue that the Pope hath determined against the Canonical Scriptures wherin the whole weight of the mater lieth But your lucke is alway to leaue that vnproued which you should chiefly prooue and to encomber the Reader most with matters impertinent and quite besides the issue S. Augustines place would haue serued better to conclude that menne ought not to beleeue Heretiques whiche are certainely deceiued if they maie not beleeue Catholiques when they be deceiued But then where were your credite become who are proued to be suche Wolues and Traitours as S. Bernard spake of in Goncilio Remensi whiche Councel you allege so often times Pag. 104. Iewel Pag. 107. S. Hierome saithe Dices super Petrum fundatur Ecclesia Hieron Aduersus Iouinian lib. 1. Licet idipsum in alio loco super omnes Apostolos fiat cuncti claues regni coelorum accipiant ex aequo super omnes Ecclesiae fortitudo solidetur Ye vvel saie The Churche is founded vpon Peter Notvvithstanding in an other place the same thing is donne vpon al the Apostles and al receiue the keies of the kingdome of heauen and the strengthe of the Churche is founded equally vpon them al. Harding M. Iewel allegeth this and other places to his owne confusion The. 22. Chapt. What il fortune hath M. Iewel euer to allege the Fathers to his owne shame That so he doth it appeareth by many other and by this very place of S. Hierome against Iouinian whiche he allegeth maimedly cutting of the halfe sentence For the other halfe sentence is this tamen propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt Capite constituto Schismatis tollatur occasio Yet emong the twelue there is one chosen out to thintent he being ordeined Head the occasion of Schisme be taken awaie Thus S. Hierome there If I had nipte of such a notable peece of a sentence M. Iewel would haue benne at me with the Chinecough c. It had serued S. Hieromes turne better reasoning against Iouinian the Heretique who affirmed the state of Virgins to be of no greater perfection then the state of married personnes as M. Iewel doth also at this daie which heresie S. Hierome confuted neuer to haue graunted that S. Peter who had ben a married man was ordeined to be the Head of the Churche if it had benne as M. Iewel would persuade But bicause the truth was that S. Peter was appointed Head emong the Apostles S. Hierome doth not denie it but sheweth the cause why he was preferred before S. Ihon the Euangelist This is M. Iewels plaine dealing What is falsehod if this be not falsehod Iewel Pag. 107. S. Chrysostome of Peter saith thus Crysost in Matth. hâ—mil 83. Duplex crimen erat tum quia repugnauit tum quia caeteris seipsum praeposuit Peter vvas in double faulte bothe for that â—e vvithstoode Christe and also fâ—r that he set him selfe before the reste Harding The common saying is the blinde eateth many a flie Euen so doth M. Iewel for lacke of dewe consideration deuoure many a soule errour S. Chrysostome hath not one iote in this place that maketh for M. Iewel He speaketh of that stoute confidence that Peter had of him selfe when he said Mat. 26. Tvvo faultes coÌ„mitted by S. Peter Zacha. 13 Although they al meaning the reste of the Apostles shal be offended by thee I wil not be offended by thee Neuerthelesse he offended twise saith S. Chrysostome First in that he withstoode Christe and considered not what was alleged out of Zacharie the Prophet before who said I wil smite the shepeheard and the sheepe shal be scattered Yet S. Peter were it for the great loue and the affection that he bare to his Maister or were he touched with some ambition and trusted to wade through of him selfe without farther helpe of special grace warranted the mater that he would neuer fal from Christe There is one of his faultes The other faulte is Quoniam praeposuit se illis bicause he prefered him selfe before the other Apostles What meaneth that M. Iewel saie you What so euer you would menne should thinke of it it maketh no mater The right meaning of the place is that Peter offended the second time bicause he thought him selfe more sure as touching standing to his Maister then al the reste of the Apostles What is this to the meaning that you would faine wring out of this place that Peter was not Head of the Apostles In the selfe same Homilie before S. Chrysostome calleth him verticem Apostolorum the very Head and chiefest of al the Apostles EtiaÌ„ ipsum ApostoloruÌ„ verticem negare permisit Christ suffered saith he the toppe or head him selfe of the Apostles to denie him Againe S. Chrysostome faithe in an other Homilie as is afore tolde that Peter had committed vnto him the charge Chrysost hom 55. in Matt. and gouernment of the whole worlde Thus you may see how al thinges go against the heare as they say with you M. Iewel thus alwaies to allege suche sayinges out of the Fathers as further not your cause but rather hinder it So shal al they doo that fight against the Truth Ievvel Pag 107. Augustin epist 86. S. Augustine maketh Peter Felovve and Equal vvith the other Apostles Inter seconcorditer vixerunt Petrus Condiscipuli eius Peter and his felovves liued agreably together Harding Peter felow Disciple with the rest and yet Head of al by S. Augustine The 23. Chapt. Peter and they that were Christes Disciples with him liued concorditer for that is S. Augustines worde in good concorde together I graunt what conclude you thereof So did Christe and the Apostles liue in concorde and agreably together and yet there was a difference betwen them pardy If you harpe vpon the terme Condiscipuli Ioan. 15. Matt. 28. whiche you interprete felowes Christe calleth his Apostles in one place his frendes and in an other place his brothers And yet euery wise man confesseth a difference and that Christe was their Head and that they were his Disciples and subiectes Euen so maie we iudge of this Felowship that was betwen Peter and the reste of the Apostles How be it in the selfe same Epistle of S. Augustine S. Peter is called Caput Apostolorum Coeli ianitor Ecclesiae fundamentum Augustin epist 86. The Head of the Apostles the porter of Heauen and the foundation of the Churche Which saying not being S. Augustines owne but an other mans yet his sileÌ„ce in not speaking against it in that place proueth that he doth wel allow it And that to be euen so the same S. Augustine in a Sermone whiche he made to the people vnto whom he spake alwaies without al obscuritie the plaine truth calleth S. Peter Head of the Churche saying Augustin de tempo Ser. 124. Head of the churche Totius corporis
any others Reade the olde Fathers in suche sorte that you may vnderstande them without mistaking their right and purposed meaning then maie you cite them both to your owne honestie and to the commoditie of others The errour of one Falcidius One Falcidius a foolishe man vtterly deceiued went aboute to preferre as S. Hierome of him to Euagrius seemeth to reporte or to matche in one equalitie as S. Augustine saith the order of Deacons with the order of Priesthood For suppression of whiche errour the rather to abbase the Deacons vanitie August in Quaest veter no. Testam Quest 101 S. Hierome disputeth that in diuers places of the Scripture in certaine respectes Priestes are taken for Bishoppes and Bishoppes for Priestes so that if the Deacons be aboute the Priestes sith the Scripture doth cal Priestes by the name of Bishoppes it wil folowe that Deacons should also be aboue Bishoppes Which absurditie is so euident as no man maie graunt it Therefore for the auoiding of this absurditie whiche would followe vpon Falcidius false assertion it behoued him and suche as helde with him vtterly to reuoke that errour that Deacons are either aboue Priestes That a Priest is aboue a Deacon or equal with them A Priest maie doo al that a Bishop doth saue that he can not geue Orders A Deacon can not doo al thinges that a Bishop doth saue onely the geuing of Orders for he can not consecrate the body and bloude of Christ in the blessed Sacrament Ergo the Priest that hath more power then the Deacon must be aboue the Deacon This is S. Hieromes very drifte in that Epistle to Euagrius with the whiche meaning of S. Hieromes your authour Erasmus doth wel agree Erasmus in Antidoto post Scholiam in epist ad Euagriū where he writeth thus vpon the same Epistle Itaque quòd hic aequat humilium vrbium Episcopos cum alijs ad Diaconos est referendum qui nonnullis locis praeferebantur presbyteris quos propemodum aquat Episcopis Where as he doth here equally matche the Bisshoppes of the meaner Cities with other that are Bisshopps of great Cities it is spoken for the Deacons sake who in certaine places were preferred before the priestes whom almost he maketh Bisshoppes felowes And againe In hoc igitur aequales sunt Episcopi presbyteri quòd vbicunquesunt Diaconis sunt praeferendi Touching this pointe Bishoppes and Priestes are equal for that they are to be preferred before Deacons where so euer they be But that there is greate difference in authoritie of gouernement betwixte Bishoppes ' Priestes and Deacons S. Hierome is plaine in the laste sentence of that Epistle where he writeth thus Et vt sciamus traditiones Apostolicas sumptas de veteri Testamento quod Aaron filij eius atque Leuitae in Templo fuerunt hoc sibi Episcopi Presbyteri Diaconi vendicent in Ecclesia And that we maie knowe the Apostles Traditions were taken out of the olde Testament what Aaron and his Sonnes and the Leuites were in the Temple Bisshoppes Priestes and Deacons maie chalenge to them selfe the same in the Churche But Aaron being the high Priest and Bisshop was in auctoritie farre aboue al the rest Ergo if Priestes be named in Scripture Bisshoppes as S. Hierome reasoneth against their folie that preferred Deacons aboue Priestes There is one Bisshoppe founde out that ought to haue special rule ouer al the reste and that by a consequent of the very Scripture Whereas S. Hierome condemned the lewde disorder of the Citie of Rome not of the Churche of Rome as M. Iewel vntruly interpreteth which he saith is one with the Churche of the whole worlde keeping one rule of truth with the rest for hauing Deacons in more honour then Priestes and putteth the mater to be tried by authoritie saying that the authoritie of the vniuersal Church of the whole worlde with the which the Church of Rome is one is rather to be folowed then the corrupte manner and custome of that one Citie there is no reason why he should seeme in that place to haue vsed the word Merite Merite for Preeminence after M. Ievvelles iudgement for this worde Preeminence as M. Iewel ful vainely iangleth and can not prooue His seely argumentes stande thus The authoritie of the worlde that is to saie of the vniuersal Churche of the whole worlde and therefore of the Churche of Rome also being One Churche with the reste is greater then the authoritie of the Citie of Rome Ergo the worde Merite in the nexte sentence folowing must signifie Preeminence Againe the power of riches and the basenesse of pouertie maketh not a Bishop either higher or lower Ergo the worde Merite in the sentence before muste signifie Preeminence This is strange Logique by vse whereof euery foole maie seeme to reason wisely if it were once allowed in open schooles The vvorld is more thē the Citie expounded Whereas S. Hierome to Euagrius speaking against the euil custome of Rome where a Deacon was preferred before a Prieste saieth Si authoritas quaeritur Orbis maior est vrbe If wee seeke for Authoritie the worlde is more then the Citie he meaneth not as the circumstance of that Epistle geueth that authoritie there should signifie authoritie in gouernement as M. Iewel hath interpreted making S. Hierome to saie that in Authoritie of gouernement the whole worlde is greater then the Citie of Roome whereby he thinketh to displace the Pope and to depriue him of his authoritie in gouernement and to bestowe it confusely abroade in al the worlde whereof in deede the Confusion whiche they may beste holde and stande by might be procured The truthe is S. Hierome there is not to be vnderstanded to speake of the Churches authoritie in gouernement but of common and publique authoritie to be folowed for auoiding of that errour that made a Deacon better then a Prieste or at least equal with a Priest In Controuersies we folowe authoritie Now saith S. Hierome If we seeke for authoritie the worlde is greater then the Citie As who should saie let no man defende the errour by the authoritie of the Citie of Rome bicause there a Deacon is preferred before a Prieste for what shal we esteme the custome of one Citie the whole world holding the contrarie And the authoritie of no one Citie can be cōparable to the authoritie of the whole worlde Therefore pretending one to obiecte vnto him that the manner was at Rome for a Priest to be ordered at the testimonie of a Deacon he saieth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis consuetudinem what bringest me foorth the custom of one Citie As who should say Neither at Rome vvas more honour geuen to Deacons then to Priestes it were not to be regarded in cōparison of the custom of the whole world Nowe that the Churche of Rome gaue not greater honour to Deacons then to Priestes by S. Hierome him selfe it seemeth to be euident for so
you maie doo muche and beguile the simple yet thinke not but the wise doo see whyther the maintenaunce of this doctrine tendeth It is il haulting before kreples they saie Truly I iudge this haulting wil appeare muche worse before princes They had neede take heede sith that ye are so bolde with them that they fal not into deadly sinne least soone after by this Doctrine they be driuen out of their kingdomes The authorities in this place by you alleged out of S. Chrysostome S. Ambrose S. Gregorie S. Cyprian Pag. 117. do not meane that such as are il liuers doo lose the Sacrament of Orders once had whiche to saie were a very great and an olde condemned heresie of the Donatistes but that al suche doo not liue as the dignitie of Priestes and Bisshoppes doth require and that they be not suche as haue al the good vertues and qualities that Priestes and Bisshoppes ought to haue Many thinges are for certaine respectes denied whiche absolutely are not denied Al that in a respecte is denied is not absoluely denied Psal 21. Ephes 6. Ego sum vermis non homo I am a worme saith the Prophete speaking of Christe and not a man Wil you hereof by like Logique conclude that Christes humanitie is denied Non est nobis colluctatio aduersus carnem sanguinem we haue no wrastling against flesh and bloude saith the Apostle in some respecte bicause our principal conflicte is not against flesh and bloud and yet we haue a conflicte and a great conflicte against fleshe and bloude and are commaunded therefore to crucifie the fleshe with his lustes Galat. 6. But bicause the Apostle saith so shal we denie that we haue to wrastle and fight against fleshe and bloude at al I trow you nor your felowes are not yet so spiritual but that ye wil confesse ye haue to fight against the fleshe Verely the world seeth your workes be not yet al of the spirite but some of the fleshe Iewel Pag. 118. If the name of Vniuersal Bishop be a provvde name in others vvhy maie it not also be a provvde name in the Bishop of Rome Harding The name of Vniuersal Bishop is not a proude name in the Pope bicause he hath it of right The .39 Chapt. Bicause the worde taken in the right sense is the very right that our Sauiour Christe gaue to S. Peter and to his Successours whiche right of vniuersal regiment he gaue not to others You maie as wisely reason thus If the name of a Queene be a prowde name applied to Margerie Horne M. Hornes dame of Winchester why maie it not also be a prowde name in Elizabeth the lawful Queene With suche geare you fil vp your paper and like a great Clerke set vs out great bookes ful fraughte with stuffe of smal substance and lesse honestie Iewel Pag. 118. May Pride be humilitie and humilitie Pride onely in respecte of diuers personnes Harding Pride is Pride and humilitie is humilitie in what so euer personne Neither can euer the one be the other But that thing whiche is prowdly or with pride donne of one man maie of an other man be donne humbly and without al breache of humilitie You might haue demaunded many wiser questions then this Know you not that the title of honour whiche is due to any person maie be acknowledged of the same without any pride at al S. Paule offended not in pride when he said he was an Apostle sent not of menne nor by man Gal. 1. Iewel Pag. 119. Likevvise Chrysostome saith Dist 40. Multi Quicunque desiderauerit primatum in terra inueniet in coelo confusionem nec inter seruos Christi computabitur qui de primatu tractauerit VVho so euer desireth primacie in earth in Heauen he shal finde confusion neither shal he be accompted emong the seruantes of Christe that vvil once intreate of primacie Harding If that be the saying of S. Chrysostome A forged saying at tributed to S Chrysostome why did you not quote the place And why make ye so muche a do for the Primacie of the Queenes highnesse in Ecclesiastical maters within the Realme Intende you to bring your selfe and her highnesse into Confusion and to shut your selfe out of Heauen S. Chrysostome hath no suche saying That which goeth before in Gratian is taken out of Opus imperfectum in Matthaeum Homil. 43. in cap Matth. 23. Maximinus Arrianus whiche is wel knowen not to be S. Chrysostomes and witht great probabilitie though to be the worke of an Arrian Heretique named Maximinus But this saying whiche here you allege out of Gratian is neither there nor in S. Chrysostome It is a forgerie and that you knewe wel ynough Yet you are not ashamed to vse it to deceiue the ignorant Reader Leaue leaue M. Iewel to abuse the simplicitie of the vnlearned with suche forged peeces and patches What you allege out of S. Chrysostome truly or out of any other Doctor we shal soone answer it by Goddes grace For we are sure that truthe alwaies agreeth with truthe As for suche forgeries we returne them backe to you againe But bicause bothe you M. Iewel and others the chiefe Pillers of your side haue said so muche touching the name of Vniuersal Bisshop and haue so vehemently inueighed against the Pope for the same bearing the vnlearned in hande ye haue a great aduantage against vs therein I thinke it good and necessarie here to treate more fully thereof and to shewe how litle ye are to be trusted as wel in this as in many other pointes of Doctrine and howe farre ye abuse the vnlearned Reader by misreporting the thirde Councel of Carthage being deceiued if it be errour and not wilful malice by a place of Gratian very ignorantly and grossely mistakeÌ„ M. Iewels Forgerie concerning the name of Vniuersal Bisshop The 40. Chapt. Vniuersal vvhiâ—therby is signified This woorde Vniuersal doth importe asmuche as one in al and al in one For the name of Vniuersalitie leaueth nothing vncomprised so that if any man be properly the vniuersal Patriarke or Bishop there is no Patriarke or â—ishop which is not in him and which he is not Therefore when Ihon of Constantinople named and wrote him selfe Vniuersal Patriarke or Bishop albeit perhaps he meant not thereby to derogate from al other Patriarkes and Bishops but only to make him selfe equal with the best whiche now also M. Iewel liketh wel of and defendeth it for lawful yet S. Gregorie and before him Pope Pelagius consydering the sclaunder that might rise by occasion of that proude Title did worthily resiste the said name and stile as proude and wicked bothe in it selfe and specially in the Bishop of Constantinople For if any man lyuing should take any such name vnto him it should be the first and chiefe of al Bishops which is the Bishop of Rome But he doth not so ne neuer didde so as the truthe is therefore much lesse any other Bishop
proufe is nedelesse the thing is manifest * Harding Here treating of Succession as thou seest Reader I haue among other things brought forth TertulliaÌ„ demauÌ„ding of the Heretikes the Original of their Churches Tertul. lib. de praescription and the Register of their Bishops succeding one an an other from the beginning til his tyme. Againe I haue alleged S. Augustine naming 38. Popes of Rome in order August Epist 165 and thereof coÌ„cluded that bicause neuer a one of them was a Donatist the Donatists were al Heretikes Whereupon I also concluded that seing among al the Popes from S. Peter til this daie none was of M. Iewels opinion he and his felowes the Zuinglians and Caluinistes must by the rule S. of Augustine be taken for Heretiques For the true Churche is where the true ordinarie and manifest Succession is from the Apostles til these our dayes This only I require of thee gentle reader that thou woldest vouchesafe to reade this matter through and not to iudge before al be heard For in deede following M. Iewelles confuse order of writing I could not dispose my thinges in such Methode and Order as the weight of the matter requireth Bicause the matter is of importance I intend to leaue out no parte of M. Iewelles woordes whereby he maie seeme to impugne the Catholique doctrine And by the treatie of this one poynte it will appeare what huge bookes we should write if we should directe a ful answer to euerie parte of his idle talke in the pretensed Defence conteined Thus then he beginneth Iewel Pag. 127. Here hath M. Harding taken some paines more then ordinarie He thought if he could by any coloure make the vvorld beleeue vve haue neither Bisshoppes nor Priestes nor Deacons this daie in the Church of England he might the more easily claime the vvhole right vnto himselfe And in deede if it vvere certaine that the religion and truth of God passeth euermore orderly by Succession and none othervvise then vvere Succession vvhereof he hath tolde vs so long a tale a verie good substantial Argument of the Truth Harding Irenaeus saith it is a certaine Rule to knowe the Truth by For hauing reckened twelue Popes who in order succeded after S. Peter to wit Linus Anacletus Clemens Euaristus Alexander Sixtus Telesphorus Hyginus Pius Aniceâ—â— Soter and Eleutherius who then was the twelfth Bishop from the Apostles Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 3. immediatly he saith thus Hac ordinatione successione ea quae est ab Apostolis in Ecclesia Traditio veritatis praeconiatio peruenit vsque ad nos Et est pleâ—issima haec â—stensio vnim eandem viuificatricem fidem esse quae in Ecclesia ab Apostolis vsque nunc sit coÌ„seruata troditain veritate By this order and Succession the Tradition and preaching of the truth whiche is in the Churche from the Apostles time came euen to our daies And this is a most ful declaration that the faith whiche is kept in the Churche and deliuered in truth from the Apostles time euen til this present hower is the one selfe same faith which is the causer of life and of saluation He saith it is a most ful declaration of the true and liuely faith And you wil confesse I trow that where that faith is there is the true Churche of God Such a Succession of Bishoppes in diuers countries we haue and can shew it from the Apostles time til this daie As the rew and order of Popes in al Chronicles doth shew to the eie and witnesseth to the vnderstanding But such a Succession M. Iewel and his fellowes haue not therefore by his owne confession we haue a good substantial Argument of the Truth Iewel Pag. 127. But Christe saith In cathedra Moysi sederunt Scribae Pharisaei by order of succession the scribes Math. 22. and Pharisees sitte in Moyses chaier Harding Wel handled M. Iewel You bring these wordes as though Christe had spoken them in the reproche of Succession Whereas Christ in that place made an ArgumeÌ„t for Succession in this wise Super cathedram Moysi sederunt Scriba Pharisaei Math. 23. omnia ergo quaecunque dixerint vobis seruate facite Vpon the chaier of Moyses the Scribes and Pharisees haue sitten Therefore kepe ye and do ye what so euer they saie vnto you or commaund you to kepe Could you not see that Ergo M. Iewel whiche is to saie Therefore Could you not perceiue that Christ made a plaine argument why and why only the Scribes and Pharisees should be obeied The matter goeth as if in moe wordes it had ben thus said The Scribes and Pharisees be naughtie men their workes are not to be folowed they â—ie heauy and importable burdens laying them on mens shoulders Math. 23. but they themselues wil not so much as once mâ—â—â— them with their finger They do al their workes for a shew Thus Christ him selfe doth paint them forth al whiche notwithstanding for onely Successions sake bicause by order of Succession they sit in Moyses chaier which my father and I haue planted in respecte thereof doo ye and kepe what so euer they commaund you to doo and kepe Mark the vvord of keeping Marke that he bindeth the people to obeie the very Scribes for Successions sake and to obeye them in keeping and obseruing the former lawes and rites To keepe I saye Beware of that Bishop who not succeding but vsurping the Chaier of good men as M. Iewel doth hauing iustled him selfe into the Chaier of good S. Osmund and others mo in the Churche of Sarisburie doth yet commaund the people not to keepe thinges but to cast them away These nevv Bisshoppes vvil not the people to kepe their faith but to chaÌ„ge their faith There is no Bishop of this newe Religion that commaundeth the people to keepe their olde faith and law but alwaies he biddeth them to change it But Christe bad the people to doo that whiche the Pharisees commaunded them to keepe and not to folow their deedes The Pharisees killed Christe but by keeping their lawes and Orders they should neuer haue come thereto If euer place of holy Scripture made for any truth in the Gospel this place which M. Iewel bringeth against Succession maketh for it and so for it that it can neuer be auoided What Doctor euer wrote vpon the holy Scriptures who might not now be brought for a witnesse of this my assertion S. Augustine saith that Christe made the people secure concerning euil Rulers Ne propter illos doctrinae salutaris Cathedra descreretur August Epist 166. in qua coguntur etiam mali bona dicere Neque enim suae sunt quae dicunt sed Dei qui in cathedra Vnitatis doctrinam posuit veritatis Lest for their sakes the chaier of holesom Doctrine should be forsaken in the whiche yea wicked men are forced to saie that whiche is good For the thinges whiche they saie are not their owne but Gods who in
ad Antichristum velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent VVould God they vvere not al gonne by consent together from religion to superstition from saith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist These fevv vvordes considering either the speaker or the place vvhere they vvere spoken may seme sufficient Harding If you had considered either the speaker or the place so as you ought to haue donne you might haue benne ashamed to haue alleged the woordes of a Catholike Prelate for your purpose For what soeuer he meant by them you may be wel assured he meant not to say that the Catholique Churche was gonne from faith to infidelitie or from Christe to Antichrist Otherwise he him selfe would not haue stil continued in that Catholique Churche which had seemed to him to haue lacked faith Cornelius episcopus Bitōtinus and Christe But nowe the man is knowen in al Italie and is aliue to this daye who stil continueth in dayly preaching and in exhorting al men to flie from your heresies to the Catholike faith and to keepe them in the Churche so that his deedes do wel shewe what he meant by his wordes The whiche rule S. Augustine would haue kepte in the vnderstanding of what so euer Writers A lesson hovv to vnderstande mennes vvordes in matter of Religion Contra epist Parmen li. 3. cap. 4. and specially touching religion And who so euer doth not so vnderstand mennes wordes by their deedes vpon his blindnesse he cryeth out in this sorte Incredibilis est coecita hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tanta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorum factorúmque patesceret vsque adeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt commemorent sanctae Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis prophetarum quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarum It is an incredible blindnesse of menne and verely I knowe not howe it might be beleeued that there is suche frowardnesse in menne onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so fast closed that they allege the testimonies of holy scripture and do not consider by the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded And straight after where S. Augustine saith those wordes he sheweth by example what he meant Hieremie had written Hier. 2. what hath Chaffe to doo with the Wheate The Donatistes thereupon reasoned that the Catholikes were Chaffe and them selues Wheate but saith S. Augustine by waie of exposition there did Hieremie that said the Iewes were Chaffe forsake their Church and fellowship No verely How so euer then Hieremie the prophete meant we ought to vnderstand his wordes according to his deedes And seing as concerning his deedes he liued in one Temple and faith with them whom he called Chaffe we may be wel assured that by the name of Chaffe he meant not that the Iewes had not true Faith and Religion but only that they had not true Charitie and Obedience Euen so if M. Iewel would consider that the Bishop of Bitonto goeth not from Italie to Geneua nor to Germanie nor to England but both abideth stil in his Bisshoprike and hath so much preached against these present Heresies of Luther Zuinglius and Caluin that now three whole Volumes of his eloquent Italian Sermons are extant in print if he would haue considered this he might haue benne ashamed with such a great brauarie and so ofte to haue alleged a Catholike mannes woordes against Rome the mother Churche of al Catholikes S. Augustine calleth it an incredible blindnesse so to doo and suche as no man would beleeue except he saw it vsed But by whom Verely by Heretikes who hauing no truth for them doo stil make vaine bragges and shewes of woordes when the very deedes of them whose woordes they bring are against them Which thing I stand the longer vppon bicause M. Iewel hath vsed this practise aboue a thowsand times in his pretensed Defence M. Ievvel euery vvhere allegeth their vvordes for him vvhom by their deedes he vvel knoweth to be against him Aboue a thousand tymes I say he hathe alleged the woordes of Schoolemen Gloses Summistes and Canonistes for his purpose whereas he wel knoweth they beleeued al suche as he is to be detestable Heretiques and for suche condemned them Yet must they be brought in and that so often so seriouslie and with suche Preambles as though he woulde beare the worlde in hande they were cleare of his side Neither did Cornelius the Bisshoppe of Bitonto speake of the Bisshoppes of Rome specially as M. Iewel would beare the Readers in hande Bitōtinus in oratione habita in Concil Tridentino but generally of the Christians saying that they haue wandered like sheepe in hilles and feeldes and that the chiefe of them are turned from authoritie vnto Lordlynes from right vnto wronge and would God saith he they were not vtterly as it were with one consent bowed from Religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist Neither doth he say they are al gonne as M. Iewel englisheth the woordes Hovv M. Ievvel falsifieth his allegation The woorde al is not there Againe he saith not they are gonne by consent altogether but velut prorsus vnanimes as it were vtterly of one minde The worde velut as it were doth temper his woordes but M. Iewel hath leafte out velut and hath put in this worde al lest if the sentence of that Bishop should be thus tempered it should not seeme greuous inough His meaning was to complaine as euery good man dayly doth vppon the vices of menne who liue as if they had neither Faithe nor Religion And that woulde haue appeared most plaine if M. Iewel had not cutte of the later woordes of Cornelius vncourteously stopping him from telling out his whole tale For in the very same sentence it foloweth A Christo ad Antichristum quin à Deo ad Epicurum vel ad Pythagoram velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent Would God they had not as it were vtterly with one consent gonne a side from Christe to Antichriste yea rather from God to Epicure or to Pythagoras These last woordes whiche made al plaine were omitted by M. Iewel as his custome is and the authours tale is falsified and his woordes abused For any man woulde soone iudge that they goe not to Epicure or Pythagoras to the ende to mainteine the doctrine and opinions that those Philosophers helde Pardonne me good Reader if herein I seeme to long For at this tyme I doo but as it were geue thee a shewe what and howe muche might be said in euery other Article of the Booke if I thought it labour worthe to discusse them particularly For I assure thee in my conscience there is not any thing in this pretensed Defence whiche might not be wel and easily answered were not that it seemeth to me a thing both superfluous so to answere suche heapes of
doctrine is to be adiudged to come of lying as that which sauoureth against the truth of the Churches of the Apostles of Christ and of God Our doctrine proued to be true by the Successiō of the Apostolique Churche Now concerning our Churches it is euident that we agree with the original and mother Churches which were planted by the Apostles For we agree in faith with the Churche of Rome which was planted by the most blessed Apostles S. Peter and S. Paule and alwaies kepte her Succession til this present daie and therefore our doctrine is true But you agree in faith with no Churche at al now extant in the worlde which came from the Apostles and therefore your doctrine by the rule of Tertullian is false and lying Whiles he then disputed with Heretikes as we doo now with you he said either these Heretikes confesse that they beganne since the Apostles time and they are false teachers or if any of them dare intrude them selues into the Apostles age Edant origines Ecclesiarum suarum then let them bring forth the beginninges or shew the original euidences of their Churches let them vnfold the order of their Bishops so ronning along from the beginning by Succession that he who is the first Bishop had for his founder and predecessour one of the Apostles or of the Apostolike men who continued til the ende with the Apostles in the same faith Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae census suos deferunt For by this way the Apostolike churches do shew forth along their publike registers At length hauing brought forth the examples of the Churche of Smyrna and of the Churche of Rome and of other like Churches he concludeth thus confidenly Consingant tale aliquid Haeretic◠let the Heretiques feine some suche matter He bad them feme For he wel knewe in truth they coulde shew no suche Succession I haue then shewed that Tertullian spake not of Heretikes who lacked the pretense of Gods worde M. Ievvels Doctrine is proued by Tertulliā erroneus for lacke of Succession proued but of them who had no Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne age And one such Succession of Bishoppes in any one Church of al the worlde seing M. Iewel can not bring forth it remaineth that he is an Heretike and that his Doctrine is erroneus false and heretical Iewel Tertullian saith not vnto vs but vnto you and suche as you be let them shevv forth the Originals of their Churches Harding Is that al he saith M. Iewel Why went you not forth to the next wordes The Scrolles or rolles of Bishops names Let them vnfold the order of their Bishoppes He calleth it vnfolding bicause the Bishoppes names were vsed to be kept and written in order in long Rolles the whiche Rolles must be vnfolded when they are to be read He meant not therefore such Originals M. Iewel as you imagine to wit particular examples of this or that facte but he meant the Original copies or instrumentes and euidences of founding and planting of their Churche who it was that preached the Faith first vnto them and who was their first Bishop who the second who the third and so forth vntil the present time Iewel Euen so vve say vnto you shevv vs the Originals of your doctrine Harding You say not euen right so as Tertullian said For he called not for the Originals of Doctrine but of Churches Originals of Churches For by the Churches the Doctrine is knowen to be good or euil to be allowable or reproueable Iewel Shevv vs any one of the Apostles of Christe or of the learned Catholike Doctours of the Churche that euer said your priuate Masse Shevv one at the lest either Greeke or Latine Harding It was not that which Tertullian required He demaunded only for the Originals of Churches and for the order and Succession of Bishops But for that you durst not cal knowing that we could shew how S. Augustine conuerted vs being sent into England from S. Gregorie the Pope whiche Pope S. Gregorie succeded S. Peter in his Chaier Thus we can shew the Originals of our Churches bringing them from the Catholike Bishops whiche are yet aliue M. Ievvslyly diuerteth from the present matter to an other mater impertinent touching priuate Masse vpward vntil S. Peter But you are fallen away from the matter of Succession which only Tertullian presseth and are now come to demaunde of a particular facte whether any Apostle or olde Father euer said priuat Masse or no. I say al of them might haue said priuate Masse and that I proue by Tertullians reason and rule bicause the vse of saying priuate Masse came to vs time out of minde by Succession without any change or innouation noted therin by any storie or Chronicle And yet was ther neuer any strange or new thing receiued and vsed in the Churche but that great trouble came thereof as now there doth of your changing of Religion the whiche trouble of Churches and common Weales is at no time omitted in the stories of that age wherein it falleth But now seing the vse of saying priuat Masse came so peaseably to vs from hand to hand and no first author thereof can be shewed it is out of al controuersie that it was euer accompted a Godly and a lawful thing But what neede I now to repeate that I haue already written in that argument Answer that parte of my booke better to the purpose then yet ye haue donne whiche treateth of that point where many plaine euidences be brought forth of Sole Receiuing Sole Receiuing in the Primitiue Churche In my ansvvere Art 1. and likevvise in my first Reioindre Aug. Epi. 165. whiche Sole Receiuing is the onely thing for whiche you reproue priuate Masse as you cal it It is cleare that S. Chrysostom and certaine others said Masse and yet had no man to receiue with them as I haue other where declared I thinke not good now to fal into that Disputation againe and therefore here I wil cal you home to the present Argument of Succession Iewel Pag. 128. 129. S. Augustine saith of so many Bishops of Rome there could not one be found that had benne a Donatiste Euen so in like sorte say vve to you of al the same Bishops of Rome there can not be one found that euer agreed vvith M. Harding in saying Masse Or if there vvere any such shevv his name vvith other Circumstances vvhen and vvhere and vvho vvere vvitnesses of the doing Shevv vs your Originals M. Harding Confesse the Truth deceiue vs no longer It is a nevv deuise ye haue it only of your selues and not by Succession from the Apostles Harding You pretend to reason like S. Augustine as though he had reasoned vpon a particular facte and not vpon the Doctrine Euen so in like sorte say you and it is not euen so nor in like sorte S. Augustine concluded that the Donatistes were Heretikes S. Augustines
example caÌ„not be fitly applied to M. Ievels purpose S. Augu. speaketh of doctrine M. Ievv of a particular facte bicause no Bishop of Rome taught that doctrine which they taught And you turne al the mater of doctrine to a manner of doing It were surely hard to proue that euer any one Pope not only of those 38. whom S. Augustine nameth but also of al the rest til this hower did say priuate Masse For if M. Iewel should put me to the proufe that Paulus tertius or Pius quartus Federicus Fregosius that noble and learned Bishop of Salerno or Bellaius that worthy Bishop of Paris or any the like who liued in our time had said Priuate Masse and that in such wise as if I were not hable to shew him when they said it where they said it and who were witnesses thereof I should not be credited for want of due proufe I were not hable to proue it either for that I liued not at Rome and in the places where they made their abode or elles bicause though I liued in those places I was not so curious nor careful to know what they did therin And so it would followe by this fond collection of M. Iewels Logique that euen yet to this daie no Pope nor other Bishop faith priuate Masse bicause I can not proue it and shew the circumstance where when and how it was donne Thinke you M. Iewel that the Religion of Christe dependeth vpon any particular facte of menne Is that your Diuinitie Al the Popes and al the Apostles agree with vs in Doctrine bicause wee can shewe diuerse Churches whiche haue benne planted of them and haue kepte from time to time the Religion whiche they receiued from hande to hande of them This is our demonstration of the Truthe This is that whiche Christe allowed when he commaunded his disciples to doo and keepe that which the Scribes and Pharisees who sate in Moyses chaire bad them to keepe and doo Euen so doo we M. Iewel we say priuate Masse so ye wil needes cal it bicause the Popes and other bishops who sit in Peters and in the other Apostles chaire doo tel vs that it is lawful to say priuate Masse And we doubte not also but that it hath benne vsed for euer to be said though the people either were not present or being present would not receiue with the priest as it is plaine in S. Chrysostome Chrysost homil 61. ad Pop. AntiocheÌ„ who stode at the Altare and did that which belonged to priestly duetie that is to say he said Masse and looked for some communicantes to come to receiue the communion but he stode in vaine for any that would come to him Yet did he stil come to the altare when so either the feaste or his deuotion required Iewel Pag. 129. But vvherefore telleth vs M. Harding this long tale of Succession Harding Bicause it is a special marke of the true Churche as a Lib. 3. cap. 3. Ireneus b De Praescript Tertullian c Lib. 2. contra Parmen Optatus and S. d Ep. 165. Augustine doo teach and your Church hath no Succession that is thirty yeres olde nor any Bishop at al lawfully planted But ours hath a Succession of a thowsand fiue hundred threescore and eight yeres with a great number of Bishops in al countries and times Ievvel Haue these men their ovvne Succession in so safe recorde VVho vvas then the bishop of Rome next by succession vnto Peter VVho vvas the second vvho the third vvho the fourth Irenaeus reckeneth them together in this order Petrus Linus Anacletus Clemens Epiphanius thus Petrus Linus Cletus Clemens Optatus thus Petrus Linus Clemens Anacletus Clemens saith that he him selfe vvas next vnto Peter and then must the reckening go thus Petrus Clemens Linus Anacletus Hereby it is cleare that of the first foure bishops of Rome M. Harding can not certainely tel vs vvho in order succeded other And thus talking so much of Succession they are not vvel hable to blase their ovvne Succession Harding Here is a deepe consideration I promise you What if al writers being sure of these foure Bishops of Rome yet be not sure who was before other Is therefore our Succession vncertaine We are wel assured that Peter was the first and after him there was a Second a Third and a Fourth We are also assured that the same were Linus Cletus Clemens Anacletus And what skilleth it vnto vs The true order of the first Popes succeding one another Damasus in pontificalt Clemens epist. 1. TertulliaÌ„ De praescr who was Second who Third who Fourth But now al this busines is ended if we make a distinction And that is this S. Peter being yet aliue made two Suffraganes Linus and Cletus who might doo the outward busines of his office whiles him selfe did attende to praier and preaching So saith Damasus in the life of S. Peter Againe when S. Peter saw his death to be at hand he chose Clement to be his successour as we reade in S. Clementes epistle and in Damasus Yea Tertullian also confesseth that the Church of Rome sheweth Clement to haue benne ordeined of Peter Thus were there three Bishops in Rome but not three Bishops of Rome when S. Peter died of the whiche S. Clement had most right to succede But he hauing seene before the good experience of Linus and Cletus did yelde the administration to them one after the other first to Linus and then to Cletus after whose death Clement him selfe gouerned the Apostolike See And after him came Anacletus whom some Greeke Writers tooke to be one with Cletus Thus are al matters reconciled DiscussioÌ„ of al doubte touching thorder of the first Popes in Rome Ruffin in Praefat. ad lib. Recognit And that not by me onely but by Ruffinus eleuen hundred yeres past who also receiued it of his Forefathers He saith Quidam requirunt quomodo cùm Linus Cletus in vrbe Roma ante Clementem hunc fuerint episcopi ipse Clemens ad Iacobam scribens sibi dicat a Petro docendi Cathedram traditâ—m â—cuius rei hanc accepimus esse rationem Quòd Linus Cletus fuerunt quidem ante Clementem episcopi in vrbe Roma sed superstite Petro vt illi episcopatus curam gererent ipse vero Apostolatus impleret officium Sicut inuenitur etiam apud Caesaream fuisse vbi cùm ipse esset presens Zachaeum tamen à se ordinatum habebat Episcopum Et hoc modo vtrumque verum videbitur vt illi ante Clementem numerentur Episcopi Clemens tamen post obitum Petri docendi susceperit sedem Some aske this question howe Clement him selfe writing to Iames saith that Peter leafte to him the Chaire of teaching whereas Linus and Cletus were Bishops in the Citie of Rome before this Clement Of whiche thing we haue learned this to be the reason That Linus and Cletus were bishops in the Citie of Rome but in the life
who haue vnlawfully inuaded the administration of the Sacramentes can make any iust and right answer I am sure * These being my questions M. Iewel you answer neither by what example handes were laid on you nor who sent you but only you say he made you priest that made me in king Edwardes daies Verely I neuer had any name or title of Priesthod geuen to me during the raigne of King Edward I onely tooke the Order of Deaconshippe as it was then ministred farther I went not So that if you haue none other Priesthoode then I had in King Edwardes time you are yet but a Deacon and that also not after the Catholique manner but in a Schismatical sorte Truly after that I had wel considered with my selfe those questions which in my Confutation I moued vnto you I tooke my selfe neither for a Priest nor yet for a lawful Deacon in al respectes by those orders Rom. 13. which were taken in king Edwardes daies For I cōsidered that whereas al power commeth from God most specially the power whereby the Church is gouerned commeth from him by Christe And seing al men know and see how the power whereby temporal kingdomes are gouerned is and ought to be wel witnessed by lineal descent of bloud or els by election and such other vocations as are among men and seing that external witnesse whereby their titles are proued is both good and necessary I thought that it was much more conuenient to graunt that the power whereby Christes Churche is gouerned ougtht to be wel witnessed euen outwardly ◠Timo. 3. sithens S. Paule requireth also that a Bisshoppe or Priest should be of a good name emong the Infidels if he liue with them And seing Christ came into the worlde to be seene and to minister and to institute visible Sacramentes and to sende visible Preachers Iohan. 02 I considered what an absurditie it was after his Ascension for man to chalenge an Inuisible Churche or Succession to him selfe Furthermore when I vewed the state of the Primitiue Churche and saw that Bishoppes euermore succeded lineally one after an other euen from the Apostles time and had read that same order of Succession to be vrged and pressed vpon by S. Irenaeus S. Cyprian Optatus and S. Augustine as is afore noted And perceiued that who soeuer forsooke the open and knowen Successiō of Bishops he was condemned for an Heretike as wel in the Latine as in the Greeke Churche al these thinges being set before myne eyes through Gods grace who shewed me them I esteemed not the title of any Ministerie which I might seeme to haue receiued in King Edwardes time so muche as I should haue done if I had receiued it of a Catholique Bishop and after the order of the Catholique Churche being wel assured that those who tooke vpon them to geue Orders were altogether out of Order them selues and ministred them not according to the rite and manner of the Catholique Churche as who had forsaken the whole Succession of Bishops in al Christendome and had erected a new Congregation of their owne planting the forme whereof was imagined only in their owne braines and had not benne seene nor practised in the world before Now the same reasons which with many other moued me I proponed to M. Iewel not being wholly without hope but that through Gods grace they might haue moued him also And yet he not vnwitting that I had returned to the vniuersal and onely true Churche and that I had taken a better ground of Priesthod then his Secte hath among whom al external Priesthod is vtterly denied he dissembling al this wil seeme to be a Priest by my knowledge and confession as if he and I had benne made priestes by the same man No no M. Iewel We were in parte together but I thanke God of it wee were not wholly together For I was with you with feare of God and with misliking of many your deedes and opinions and with desire to serue God in that Truthe Religion and Churche wherein I might safely reste and quiet my selfe In your fellowship I soughte that safe quietnes but I neuer founde it bicause my feete were not staied vpon the Rocke nor vpon anie sure grounde sith I sawe what ye misliked but I sawe not what ye woulde haue I sawe what ye pulled downe but I sawe not what ye set vp I sawe from what auncient Churche ye were departed but I sawe you not to goe to any elder societie of faithful men then your selues were And yet I knewe and at the length considered that Christes Churche must be aboue fifteen hundred yeres olde whereas your Churche place it at Wittenberge at Zuriche or in what other corner so euer ye wil is not yet ful fiftye yeres olde and your firste Preacher can shewe no commission either ordinarie or miraculous for him selfe These reasons with diuers other moued me the same also ought to haue moued you And bicause you can not answer them you dissemble them and therefore of your lawful Commission Vocation and Sending you speake neuer a worde Iewel 130. Father as if you vvere my Metropolitane ye demaunde of me vvhether I be a Bishop or no. I ansvver you I am a Bishop and that by the free and accustomed Canonical Election of the vvhole Chapter of Sarisburie assembled solemnely together for that purpose Harding It was no free Election M. Iewel M. Iewels canonical election to the See of Sarisburie when the Chapter whiche chose you saw that excepte it chose you it selfe shoulde be in danger of the lawe and of the Princes displeasure It was no Canonical Election when he was chosen whom the olde Canons haue iudged vnable for that Vocation For howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe Prieste who teacheth that there is not at al any external Priesthod in the Churche Howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe prieste who teacheth with the olde condemned Heretique Aerius Epiphan Haeres 75. that by Gods lawe there is no difference betwen a Bisshoppe and a priest How can he be lawfully chosen Bishoppe in Sarisburie according to the olde Canons who teacheth al the olde Canons to be superstitiouse wherein from the Apostles time Praiers for the dead were commaunded and prescribed What Canon can allowe his Election who breaketh the Vnitie of the Churche and diuideth him selfe and his flocke 〈…〉 Quenes Chappel let M. Richard Chaundler prebendarie there and Archedeacon of Sarisburie let your owne frende and faithfelowe M. Parry Chauncellour of that Churche be demaunded whether I was present at your Election and gaue free and open consent vnto it or no. I maruel that you who can remember so many sayinges of Glosers and Canonistes could not remember to cal for the Registers booke or for the witnesse of those of that Church there with you daily present to vnderstand the truth hereof before you wrote this much You knew it you knew it right wel M.
yet haue benne more plaine if you M. Iewel had not practized your olde false sleight in cutting of my wordes For when I had asked whether D. Capon Shaxton Campegius or Audley or any other bishops of Sarisburie taught your doctrine I answered thereunto it is most certaine they did not How be it I staied not there but went forward to remoue that your obiection of Capon and Shaxton whiche I forsawe you would make And thereunto I said thus How so euer those two first named Capon M. Ievvel left out al these wordes bicause thei ansvvered him fully and Shaxton onely in some parte of their life taught amisse how afterward they repented abhorred your heresies and died Catholikes it is wel knowen Now beside these whome els can you name Al these wordes of myne you leafte out M. Iewel as if I had neuer printed them You leafte them out not onely by not answering them but also you did not suffer them to be printed in your booke emong myne owne wordes leaste you should haue benne answered before you had replied as most times you are as it should appeare if it would please the Reader but to vew and peruse my woordes ouer againe and diligently to conferre them with yours Which I wish him to doo not only for trial of this point but also al others whereof so euer both we haue treated And he shal say you were answered before you made the Replie confuted before you made your pretensed Defence But what conscience haue you that liue at least mainteine the life of your estimation among them of your Secte by lying by dissembling by cutting of by adding vnto by mangling your Doctours briefly by deceiuing the reader one waie or other You were ashamed to haue no predecessour at al in the See of Sarisburie and to be like Nouatian or Donatus and such other the like Heretikes And therefore you name two Predecessours both which protested at their death that you and al your felowes are Heretikes and repented that euer they communicated with you so farre as they did Thus you come of your selfe as the Deuil doth and shal come in his chief member Antichrist And you come not holding by lineal Succession nor by lawful Sending as Christ came being sent of his father and being borne of the seede of Dauid and of Abraham But you are without Predecessours and I am sure if God for our great sinnes forsake not our Coūtrie you shal not long haue Successours Iewel For the rest of the bishops that vvere before them vvhat faith they held and vvhat they either liked or misliked by their vvritinges or sermons it doth not greatly appeare Harding What neede wordes when dedes speake It is euident they kepte that which they receiued of S. Augustine our Apostle and that which was before and afterward beleeued in al Christendome Thei said Masse they adoured Christes body in the blessed Sacrament who doubteth of it They asked their cōfirmation of the bishop of Rome and acknowledged him to be the Apostle S. Peters Successour Therefore they were not your Predecessours in faith and doctrine you may be assured M. Iewel Iewel I trust they held the foundatiō and liued and died in the faith of Christ Harding Now now M. Iewel you haue bewraid M. Ievvel be wraith him selfe what you teach in corners now that lurking heresie is cropen out whereof I spake in my Preface to you before my laste Reiondre touching the Sacrifice of the Masse There I shewed that the Catholike Church must be beleeued in al pointes of Religion and that they were Heretiques who persuaded them selues that it was inough to beleeue certaine Articles of the faith and to let the rest alone not regarding whether this or that be true But what cal you the Foundation of the true faith You knowe that al your Predecessours acknowleged the Popes Supremacie said Masse and beleeued the doctrine of the seuen Sacramentes and taught so Otherwise they had ben noted for Heretikes of others who liued together with them as you are of them who liue with you Seing then you know they did so what can you meane by the foundation but onely the beleefe of the Trinitie and of Christes birth death and Ascension As though it were inough to beleue those thinges what so euer become of the reste Math. 12. Math. 18. Luc. 10. But Christ saith he that is not with me is against me He that heareth not the Church let him be to thee as a heathē and a publicane He that heareth you heareth me he that despiseth you despiseth me and him that hath sent me And S. Paule saith 1. Tim. 3. Iacob 2. Agust epistol 29. ad Hieron The Church is the piller and sure stay of truth And S. Iames he that faileth in one is made giltie of all that is as S. Augustine expoundeth it he that faileth or sinneth against Charitie is giltie of al other faultes Nowe charitie is broken if vnitie be broken and vnitie is broken if the bishops beleeue not euery Article of the faith expressely which the Churche teacheth to be expresly beleeued Therefore either your predecessours were with you or against you There is no midle or meane With you they were not bicause they taught seuen Sacramentes and the Popes supremacie and the Sacrifice of the Masse c. Therefore they were against you And then ye are the first of that faith and doctrine whiche now ye teache You therefore came of your selfe and are without Predecessours Iewel 131. If they had liued in these dayes and seene that you see they vvould not haue ben partakers of yours vvilfulnesse Harding These are the wordes of an Antichrist who seeking to make him selfe equal with Christ doth vse such Phrases by his wicked members as Christe did vse concerning his owne person In deede Christ and only Christ might say such wordes bicause he only shewed such miraculous workes that were hable to haue turned Sidō and Tyrus Ioan. 2. 10. or any other hard harted people But what haue we seene in these dayes M. Iewel which would haue ben hable to haue made al your Predecessours to haue yelded vnto your new faith Haue ye spoken with al tonges as the Apostles did Nay ye haue cōfoūded and dispersed them as it was done at the building vp of the toure of Babylō For whereas in holy matters and specially in the Church Seruice we seemed to be deliuered from the curse of the Diuisiō of tongues bicause many nations of diuers lāguages were vnited and knit together in one Latine or Greeke Church Seruice you go about to set the worlde againe as farre a part by diuers vulgare tongues as euer it was before Christes cōming Haue ye built vs new Churches or schooles or hospitalles or colleges Nay ye haue pulled downe the olde and defaced them to the vttermost of your power Haue ye made peace in the earth and reconciled al dissensions Ye haue rather diuided the subiecte
from his Prince the child from his father and the wife from her husband What is it then wherein your Predecessours if they had now liued and had seene it would not haue benne so wilful as we are They should haue seene in you Diuisions sectes factions pride wantonesse fleshly libertie crueltie murders treasons rebellions Churche robbinges and to be short al impietie and contempte of God Pride accompained with malice couetise and lecherie was the foundation A foule mouthed Frier as euer liued on the earth and a Nūne incestuously coupled together was the building that rose vp of your doctrine which to this daie goeth forward with like increase And yet if your Predecessours had seene that which we see they would forsooth haue ben astonned to see the heauenly fruites which these men bring foorth Iewel To be short vve succede the bisshops that haue ben before our dayes vve are elected consecrated confirmed and admitted as they vvere Harding Here is no lye at al. That I may speake of no other difference the Bishops whom you succeede were al confirmed by the bishop of Rome and so is none of you Iewel .. If they vvere deceiued in any thing vve succede them in the place but not in errour Harding By their place is meant specially their doctrine and beleefe which seing you haue not you are not their successour no more then Paulus Samosatenus the heretique was the Successour in S. Peters chaire in Antioche no more then Gregorius the Arian was S. Markes successour in Alexandria no more then al the Bisshops of Christendome are to be accompted the successours of the Heathnish Priestes which in the same Cities before worshipped Idols It is the Doctrine and place together which maketh the Succession and not the walles of the towne Churche or house alone Iewel They vvere our Predecessours but not the rules and standardes of our faith Harding As long as they remained in that vnitie of Doctrine which they receiued of the Apostles or of the Apostolike Churches as Tertullian doth wel shew so long they are presidentes and their continual Succession is a good rule and standard of our faith For they are pillers of the Church the Successours of the Apostles Luc. 10. whom he that heareth heareth Christ Now when those that breake the Vnitie which was in the Church before come to sit in any bishops Chaire they in deede are no presidentes no rules nor standardes of our Faith bicause the Apostle biddeth vs obserue and beware of them 2. Thess 3. that walke inordinatly and make dissensions For the Church of God hath no suche custome to striue 1. Cor. 11. and to resiste at once al the Bishops of the whole Church as Martin Luther did Iewel 131. Or rather to set apart al comparison of persons the doctrine of Christ this day M. Harding succedeth your doctrine as the daye succedeth the night as the light succedeth darknesse and as the truth succedeth errour Harding VVhat is the daie vvhat is the night in M. Ievvelles iudgement That is to say your doinges and proceedinges are the daye the light and the truth but the Catholique faith whiche we teache and al our predecessours in al the worlde haue euer taught is the night the darkenesse and errour But sir if your doctrine be daye or light and ours night or darkenesse how chaunceth it that our doctrine was euer openly seene in the whole worlde from the Apostles time vnto these daies in so many Bishoppes throughout al nations teaching al one thing and yours was not sene by your owne confession for nine hundred yeres together This was a long night pardy M. Iewel Is it the nature of the light not to be seene Who sawe not our Altars our external Priestes and our Sacrifice of the body and bloud of Christ in the whole world from East to Weast Malac. 1. as Malachias prophecied and the euent shewed But your no Aulters your no external Priestes and your no sacrificing of Christes body briefly the Imaginatiue face of your Negatiue Religion or rather of your no Religion who could see before that now of late ye pulled downe our Aulters to shewe howe ye had no Aulters and before violently ye bannished our Priestes and draue them out of their Churches to shewe howe ye had no Priestes and denied Christes Real Presence to shew how ye had no Sacrifice Our Munkes and Friers from S. Ihon Baptistes dayes and from the tyme of those that liued a very holy life in Egypte frō the time of S. Marke the Euangeliste vnto the time of S. Basil in the East of S. Augustine S. Benedicte S. Frauncis and S. Dominike in the Weast had replenished Christendom with Cloisters and Monasteries to those our Monkes I say al the worlde beareth witnesse But your no monkes Renegates and Apostates liued in Turkie or in Hel for in the landes of Christendom no such doctrine shined none suche was heard of whiche should auouche that it is not lawful by Gods grace to make a vowe that a man wil renounce the riches and pleasures of the worlde and liue continently vnder the obedience of a spiritual Father If your doctrine be the light and the daye howe commeth it to passe that not so muche as one Churche or chappel in the whole earth can be named where before these fiftie yeres it was vnlawful to occupie holy Chrisme in bishopping of childerne or to saye Masse or to teache the seuen Sacramentes to praie for the dead to celebrate the Churche Seruice in the Latine tongue to desire the Apostles Martyrs and the other Saintes to praie for vs al which thinges now you accompt for vnlawful Can the light be so darkened that it should be vnknowen vnto you whether ye had any auncestours at al or no We can if neede were set forth a rolle of our Pastours and Bishops from this daye vpward vnto S. Peters time in such sort as you shal name no one time of whiche we are not hable to saye vnto you these many prelates and Pastours were knowen to preache Christes gospel at once in diuers nations Marcke M. Iewel what I saye to you and consider of it wel For herein your vtter Confusion appeareth that ye are not hable to bring the continuance of your doctrine vp vnto S. Peters time without interruption albeit you should be bounde to name for euery fiftie yeres in Order but one man in the whole worlde at once Thinke of it with al your witte and geue me an instance There are since Christes time fifteen hūdred yeres passed Geue me for euery hundred yeres two Catholike men one liuing after the other whom you may iustifie to haue ben of your faith holding that doctrine whiche you holde and so geue me in al but thirtye menne liuing and knowen to haue lyued eche of them about fiftie yeres one after the other and for my part I wil release you of your bond of subscription Such a lightsome Churche ye haue that
ye must go into the pit of Hel to fetch out Aêrius Pelagius Vigilantius Iouinian Heluidius Manichaeus and such others of condemned memorie to geue light vnto your Churche or els you can bring foorth none at al. For whereas al the Greekes Epiphan Haeres 75 as it may appeare by Epiphanius and al the Latines as it may appeare by S. Augustine condemned him for an heretike who said the prayers of the liue could not helpe the dead what catholike is it possible to bring foorth for the yere of our Lorde three hundred and fiftie or foure hundred who taught as ye now teache that it is not lawful nor profitable to praye for the dead Wel ye are not the light nor the daye Is your doctrine at the least the truth Nay that is the truth which is also the light For the true doctrine is taught in that Church which is built vpon an hil and can not be hid The truth is vniforme Math. 5. but emong you Luther and Zuinglius Caluine and Westphalus Bullinger and Brentius Illyricus and Beza and sundrie other couples and partes agree so wel that a man may easily know them to be false Prophetes For whereas they al disagree yet they are al without that Churche where vnitie is preserued in the perpetual Succession of many Bishops alwaies agreeing in one saith Therefore your doctrine is neither the light nor the daye nor the truth but darkenesse but night but errour Iewel 131. Novv for as much as ye haue thought it so good to examine the petite degree of Bishops of Sarisburie I trust you vvil not thinke it il if I a litle touch the lâ—ke in the Bishops of Rome that vve may thereby the better be hable to see some of the branches of your Succession Harding In dede they of whom you speake are but some of the branches of our Succession For you touch of two hundred and thirtye Bishops of Rome not thirteene and yet our Succession consisteth also of al the Bishops in Italie Spaine Fraunce Germanie Sicilie Polonia Hungarie Denmarke Suethen and England euen til king Henrie the eightes time But go too on Gods name touche whom you can I am wel assured you wil plaie the Spider to espie if any poison can be found any where Let vs see with what truth and honestie you blase their faultes The worst that can be said of al the Popes touching doctrine by the Protestantes is here gathered together and laid forth by M. Iewel and the same is truly answered Iewel Pag. 131. Therefore shortly to say you knovv that Pope Marcellinus committed Idolatrie Harding Of S. Marcellinus Martyr and Pope I know that after his Idolatrie whereto he yeelded for feare of death he repented and shed his bloud for Christe and dyed a glorious Martyr euen as S. Paule after that he had persecuted the Churche through grace repented and died for Christes name Who ought now to be more ashamed of S. Marcellinus you that chalenge him for an Idolatour or I that chalenge him for a Martyr The Idolatrie you speake of is gone and pardoned the Martyrdome whereof I speake is euerlastingly crowned in heauen The ende M. Iewel trieth al whereof you should haue taken your iudgement And yet this very Idolatoure bicause he was S. Peters Successour and sate in the first See was in case for the roume he occupied to be iudged of no man in the earth as tâ—e Councel of three hundred and thirtie Bishoppes assembled at Sinuessa pronounced aboue twelue hundred yeres past Tom 1. Concil Primasedes non iudicabitur à quoquaÌ„ The first seate shal not be iudged of any man What haue you wonne now by this example but that you do the world to vnderstand what malicious stomake ye beare against the Popes of Rome whose faultes ye are right glad to espie and blase abroade although they repented of them Verely it would haue becomme a sonne of the Churche to conceele suche actes of frailtie and not to see suche spottes that were with so abundant founteines of teares cleane washed awaie and with the bloude of so glorious Martyrdom quite blotted out Iewel 131. Pope Syluester the secoÌ„d vvas a Coniurer and gaue himselfe vvhole body and soule to the Deuil and by the Deuilles procurement vvas made Pope Harding That Syluester the second came to be Pope malis artibus by euil meanes it is not so cleare a matter as you make it Platina the chiefe author we haue for credite of that Storie vttereth it doubtefully by his Parenthesis vt aiunt as they saie Whereby he geueth vs to vnderstand that he was not hable to auouche it for a certaine truthe but referreth him selfe to the vulgare rumour of the people which most commonly bruteth abroad moe lies and vanities then truthes and certainties How beit Platina Platinae in vitis PontificuÌ„ Pope Syluester 2. his repentance at the ende who tolde you al this added also Poenitentia motus errorem suum coram populo fassus c. being moued with repentance and confessing his errour before the people he first exhorted them al that ambition and the deuilles deceites laide aside they should liue wel And afterward his body was miraculously drawen by horses to the chiefe Church of Rome and there was buried If you beleue the one you must beleue the other sithence it is but one Storie whereof you told the first parte and I the last Whereupon I attribute so much to that holy Succession that I doubte not as euil a man as he once was but God delte the more mercifully with him for his good predecessours sakes who I doubte not prayed for him that he might die penitently and be a saued soule Iewel 131. Pope Zosimus for ambition and claime of gouernment corrupted the holy Councel of Nice Harding You say it Pope Zosimus sclaundered by M. Ievv but neuer did any honest man say it from the beginning of the worlde til this time neither was the same yet euer proued For albeit he alleged such wordes of a certaine Canon as the other copies had not yet did no man lay to his charge that he had corrupted the CouÌ„cel For he alleged that which he found in his own copies I say to you M. Iewel there is nothing shewed by this your tale but that you are a man of il dispositioÌ„ who gladly reporte euil and besides that you finde reported of others inuent your selfe that which vtterly is false to diminish the estimation of a holy man that died eleueÌ„ hundred yeres past Marke the point I say if it be said of any man that euer wrote in the olde time that Pope Zosimus corrupted the Councel of Nice then you or your fellowes did not feine it but if no man said it but bawdy Bale or Illyricus and suche others the like then your part is with liers and sclaunderers and thereafter shal your iudgement be without you repente whiche God graunt you M. Stapleton in the
that there is no succession in doctrine Now I saie ronne ouer al the Bisshops of Rome and you can saie of neuer a one this man coÌ„ming into his Predecessours See did oppugne his doctrine or preached with the Churche of Romes contentation against that which was in vse before So that in Rome al thinges are euen at this day concerning faith as S. Peter leafte them For euery man hath agreed in outward Decree senteÌ„ce and profession with al the predecessours and successours Iewel Pag. 132. S. Bernard saith Quid prodest si canonicè eligantur In concil Remen non canonicè viuant VVhat auaileth it if they be chosen in order and liue out of order Harding It auaileth nothing to the euil liuer but yet it auaileth muche to him that obeieth the good and true doctrine of the euil teacher Iewel So saith S. Augustine Ipsum characterem multi lupi Cont. Donatist lib. 6. 1. q. 3. vocantur caâ—es Character vvhat it signifieth in the Sacraments lupis imprimunt The outvvarde marke or right of a bisshop many geue to vvolues and be vvolues them selues Harding By Character is not meant an outward marke but rather an inwarde marke and print which through the receiuing of certaine Sacramentes is imprinted in the soules of them who receiue them of whiche sorte are Baptisme Confirmation and holy Orders And those sacramentes being once receiued caÌ„ not be repeated or be againe receiued of the same person For the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud although it be an outward signe yet it leaueth not any Character or suche inward print in the soule as may be no more repeated But letting that errour passe of the true interpretation of this worde Character I graunt that Heretikes may baptize heretikes euen without the Churche and the Baptisme shal stand although it be vnlawfully ministred What maketh that against the Suceession of Bishops It rather proueth that seing the Sacramentes may be ministred if not to saluation of them that are of discretion yet truly and really without the true Churche there must be an other rule taken to know the true Church by besides the administration of Sacramentes And that true and certaine rule is the perpetual Succession of the See Apostolike Iewel Pag. 132. Therefore the auncient father Irenaus geueth vs this good counsel Eis qui sunt in Ecclesia presbyteris obedire oportet Iren. lib. 4. ca. 43. qui successionem habent ab Apostolis qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum secundùm beneplacitum patris acceperunt It becommeth vs to obey those Priestes in the Churche vvhich haue their succession from the Apostles and together vvith the Succession of their bishoprikes according to the good vvil of God the Father haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truthe Harding Al this maketh against you M. Iewel For seing you can shew no such Priestes hauing their Succession from the Apostles and hauing receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth whom ye doo obeye it is certaine that ye haue not the gifte of the truthe among you On the other side seing we haue Priestes that is to say Bishoppes of Rome who are also Priestes which haue their SuccessioÌ„ from the chiefe and most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule and seing such Priestes and Bishops keeping stil the same faith and doctrine from man to man haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth according to the good wil of God the Father doubtelesse the vndoubted marke of the truth is with vs only and not with you at al who haue no Succession at al of any Priestes and much lesse of any suche Priestes that succede lineally from the Apostles them selues Iewel 132. S. Cyprian being likevvise charged for dissenting from his predecessours Lib. 2. epist 3. ansvvereth thus Si quis de antecessoribus meis c. If any of my predecessours haue not obserued and kepte the same that our Lorde hath taught vs both by his example and also by his coÌ„maundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doo the like can hope for no pardon being nowe admonished and instructed of our Lorde Harding Cough vp man it wil choke you Phy. vvhat a fowle corruption is this Lib. 2. epist 3. if you let it tarry within your throte Here is but halfe the bone there is yet in S. Cyprian no ful point it foloweth in the same sentence Vt calicem Dominicum vino mixtum secundùm quod Dominus obtulit offeramus We can hope for no pardon who are now admonished and instructed of our Lorde that we should offer our Lordes chalice mixed with wine accordingly as our Lorde offered the same Either M. Iewel tooke this saying of S. Cyprian vpon the Germaine credite as he found it noted in their bookes and then his false brethren deceiued him or els he wrote it out of S. Cyprian himselfe and then his studie and wil was to deceiue vs. He would ful gladly haue geuen vs an authoritie that we might forsake the example of our Predecessours but he was loth we should see the thing wherewith the authoritie was exemplified For if at any time he say al he is sure to speake against him selfe and no wonder because he speaketh against the truth and euerie good saying euermore agreeth with the trtuh First he corrupteth S. Cyprian in putting in meis for nostra my predecessours in stede of our predecessours For S. Cyprian speaketh not of his owne Succession but of what soeuer Priest or Bishoppe that liued before his time Againe S. Cyprian spake not of any such custome as had ben generally vsed of al Bishops for then it had ben of ful authoritie but of that which some one man vsed priuatly and without keeping the lawe of Succession And therefore S. Cyprian said Si quis if any man Thirdly the thing he spake of was that some were said to offer water alone in our Lordes supper and not wine withal Now saith he if any before our time haue vsed to offer water and not wine mingled with water wel he may be pardoned by our Lordes mercie but we that are admonished and instructed to offer our Lordes chalice mingled with wine that is to say consisting not of water alone but of water and wine mingled together we caÌ„ not be pardoned except we mingle water with wine and so do offer our Lordes Chalice as he him selfe did offer it Nowe applie this geare Christian Reader to our new brethrens deedes Do they offer our Lordes Chalice at al Or do they graunt that our Lord in his Supper offered it Do they mingle water with wine at the time of consecrating the mysteries If they do neither of both what folie yea what madnesse was it for M. Iewel to bring foorth these wordes of S. Cyprian thereby to accuse him selfe and his owne Communion as not obseruing that whiche our Lorde commaunded to be obâ—â—rued It is a worlde to see how these men applye the witnesses of
seing we are at variance let vs resorte to the very beginning and to the Original which is our Lordes worde and the Apostolike Tradition This was wel said But the Apostolike Tradition was so as Pope Steuen defended and not so as S. Cyprian woulde haue had it And this M. Iewel neither doo you nor can you denie For your selfe I trow wil not allow that they should be baptized againe in your owne Churche that haue ben before baptized in an other Churche which ye accompte for false heretical or schismatical What meant you then to consecrate S. Cyprians errour and to allege his authoritie therein where it ought not to be admitted and allowed But with you the ouersightes of the Fathers the errours of the Greekes the sayinges of heretiques the examples of Schismatiques the obiections of Schoolemen and Canonistes and the pelfe of Gloses is alwaies good stuffe Iewel S. Cyprian saith If the Pipes of the conduite vvhich before ranne vvith abundance happen to faile do vve not vse to searche to the head Harding Yeas if they could faile But in Christes Churche the Pipes can not faile The Pipes of the CoÌ„duite of Christes Church can neuer faile Math. 28. bicause Christe promised to be with his Apostles and thereby with their Successours al daies vntil the worldes ende If the Pipes of Christes grace and of his Churche faile to runne any one daie then is not Christe that daie with his Pastours and teachers and consequently he is not al daies or euery daie with them But if his worde can not be false then the Pipes neuer failed ne shall not faile and that was wel seene in S. Cyprians question For although they in Afrike had cut of the Pipes by force in changing the former custome and Tradition yet in Rome the Pipes ranne stil and therefore Christe was stil with the Bishops of Rome and with the other Bishops who remained in his Communion Example of agreeing in coÌ„munion vvhere is disagreeing in opinion Yea Christe was also with S. Cyprian bicause S. Cyprian departed not from Pope Steuens Communion But he was with S. Cyprian not in that question wherein he dissented from the Pope but in that he consented and agreed with the Pope For he both dissented concerning the particulare case and consented concerning the general bond of vnitie wishing to haue his owne sentence followed but if it were not followed as it was not content to yelde to his brethren rather then to breake of and to make a Schisme For thus he endeth that epistle which he wrote in that argument to Iubaianus Cyprianus Ad IubaianuÌ„ de Haereticis baptizaÌ„d Si quis putatur contentiosus esse nos talem consuetudinem noÌ„ habemus neque Ecclesia Dei. Seruatur à nobis patienter firmiter charitas animi collegij honor vinculum fidei et concordia Sacerdotij If any man be thought to be geuen to strife and debate we haue no such custome nor the Churche of God The Charitie of minde the honour of the societie the bonde of faith and the concorde of Priesthoode is both patiently and firmely keepte of vs. If M. Iewel if before him Luther and Caluine if al the rest of these Gospellers had none otherwise dissented from the Pope and the whole college of Bishops then S. Cyprian did they might haue ben saued as he vndoubtedly is a glorious Martyr in heauen But they imagined the Pipes whereby grace faith and al other giftes are deriued from Christ vnto vs to haue ben broken of for the space of these nine huÌ„dred yeres past deuised with them selues how they might repaire to the head and so might fetche the watter of life vnto vs by new Conduites and Pipes But they were deceiued For after Christe did once set the Pipes a ronning they neuer ceassed nor shal ceasse to ronne til the day of iudgement For the holy Ghost is promised to abide with the Apostles Ioan. 14. Esai 59. The B. of Rome is the successour of Peter Cyprian lib. 4. epi. 2 ad antâ—nianum Luc. 22. and their Successours in aeternum for euer And their Successours are the Bishops And as the Chiefe of the Apostles was S. Peter so S. Cyprian saith of Fabianus who was Bishop of Rome two hundred yeres after S. Peter Cùm Fabiani locus id est cùm locus Petri gradus Cathedrae sacerdotalis vacaret when the place of Fabian that is to say when the place of Peter and the steppe or degree of the Priestly Chaire was voide So that as Peters faith was most specially prayed for and that not only for his owne sake but to the ende he should strengthen and confirme his brethren euen so was euery Bishop of Romes Faith prayed for to the ende euery one might strengthen and confirme his brethren whiche are al Bishoppes in the truthe of the Faith and in the Gouernement of the flocke That Succession of the Bishop of Rome Augu. in in psalmuÌ„ coÌ„t parteÌ„ Donati and of the See of Peter is the Rocke which as S. Augustine saith the proude gates of Hel do not ouercome So he said eleuen hundred yeres past so vntil this howre the thing it selfe proueth so doo we beleeue that it shal be perfourmed by him that promised it vntil the worldes ende bicause it is the Rocke whiche shal euer confesse the true Faith and feede the sheepe of Christ and staye vp the howse of God and confirme al the faithful that leane vnto it Thus haue I confuted M. Iewel your treatise of Succession The Pipe of Christes doctrin hath coÌ„tinued in the catholike Churche onely which I tooke in hande specially to treate of bicause it sheweth most euidently that ye haue no true Churche bicause ye can shew no Pipe or Conduicte which from Christ vntil your Sectes hath stil continued ronning or hath stil deriued his doctrine and grace vnto them of your side It is the Catholike Church whiche you cal the Papistical Church which hath that Pipe and can euidently shew where the streame hath gonne and how it hath ben mainteined from age to age from generation to generation yea from man to man without any interruption Isai 62. Matth. 5. Philipp 2. Matt. 28. Ioan. 14. 16. Esai 59. 1. Timo. 3. Such should the state of the Churche be according to Gods worde where watche men should neuer holde their peace where the citie built vpon the hil can not be hid where the children of light shine like sterres in the middest of the infidelles where Christe is al dayes vnto the worldes ende where the holy Ghoste is for euer teaching al truthe where the piller and sure staye of truthe is visibly seene as with whiche menne be conuersant in this worlde as S. Paule saith where to be shorte Ioan. 21. Christes sheepe are fed of Peter al abiding within the vnitie of his one Folde in this worlde thence and thence only to be transferred vnto the glorious Pasture of life
is that M. Ievvel perfourmeth in this mater of Priestes and Votaries marriages Now commeth me M. Iewel in and allegeth Doctours as thicke as haile olde and newe knowen and vnknowen allowed and disallowed Schoolemen and Summistes vea the very marginal Annotations vpon the Glose of Gratian are haled in to helpe at a pintche and yet al helpeth not Of his owne in manner he saith nothing but thus Origen saith Tertullian saith suche a one saith and suche an other saith and he saith and againe he saith c. Then he laith downe their Latine be it true be it false and putteth a translation vnto it suche as becommeth shifters to vse in a false matter and thus furnisheth out a great booke that the worlde may thinke he is a great Clerke Were al that he allegeth to the purpose then were it somewhat yet were it no great commendation to make bookes onely out of Notebookes already made and gathered to his handes First to declare his order keeping him selfe a luffe of M Iewels order in his treatie of this pointe and his tvvo principles and comming nothing neare the point wherein my Confutation consisteth he bringeth the holy Fathers into suspicion of not dealing vprightly and indifferently herein bearing the Reader in hande they haue swarued from truth either in the auauncing of Virginitie or els in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie To make proufe of this he allegeth no smal number of sentences out of certaine Fathers in whiche not being thoroughly examined they seeme to speake hardly of Marriage specially of the second Mariage For this point his Doctours be these Tertullian in Exhortatione ad Castitatem the author of the vnperfite worke vpon S. Matthew whom he calleth Chrysostom whereas it is wel knowen not to be his as that whiche conteineth sundry heinous heresies S. Hierome writing against Iouinian Heluidius and to Gerontia Athenagoras in Apologia pro Christianis Nazianzen in dictum Euangelij Cùm perfecisset Iesus c. Origen in Lucam Homilia 17. for which his cotation hath Homil. 19. Nexte he reckeneth vp so many menne as he hath read of that being Married were afterwardes made Bisshops Of whom he saith that they vsed Mariage them selues in their owne personnes which is more then he is liable to proue if by vse of Marriage he meane the carnal copulation M. Iewels tvvo Principles These two that is to say the Fathers disgracing of Matrimonie and their hauing of wiues them selues he calleth by the name of his two Principles whiche being laid he maketh his stoute vaunte that he is the better hable to consider the substance of my reasons for so he saith and there at length he addresseth him selfe to shape an Answere to the parte of my Confutation aboue sette out Now to say somewhat to his Principles before I come to his Answer were it true that certaine Fathers speaking of Matrimonie vsed immoderate and extraordinarie speaches for so he termeth them Againe that many of them had ben married before they came to be Bishops what perteineth that to the defence of the marriage of Votaries and Priestes whiche was the point presently treated of What wil he make this fonde and childish Argument Certaine Fathers spake ouer vehemētly concerning Matrimonie Item some of them were called to the dignitie of Bishops from the state of married menne Ergo Priestes Monkes Friers and Nonnes who haue vowed Chastitie may lawfully marrie wiues and take husbandes Truly either this is his reason or els hitherto he hath no reason at al. And of what smal substance this reason is the veriest Cobblers of al their Ministers if they can reade any English besides their communion booke may easily perceiue Touching the Fathers speaches in reproufe of Matrimonie one answer M. Iewel Ansvver to M. Ievvels doctours in manner may serue to refute al that you would inferre of their sayinges Onely I excepte Tertullian who being fallen into the fowle Heresie of Montanus in his booke intituled Exhortatio ad castitatem wrote otherwise of Marriage specially in that he condemned second marriage then the Catholique Church holdeth or the trueth beareth And S. Hierome witnesseth as Beatus Rhenanus noteth that booke to haue ben written against the Churche Now we thinke not our selues bounde to defende what so euer they say whom the Churche condemneth for Heretiques As for Origen likewise you knowe of how litle credite he is in regard of sundry great errours albeit touching the case of the second and third Mariage The Fathers cal immoderate luste an euil thing for vvhiche they be thought of some vnlearned to reproue marriage De peccato originali contra Pelag. Coelestiū lib. 2. c. 37 Lib 1. de Nuptiu et Concupiscent c. 22 speaking where of you allege him he may better be defended then Tertullian may As concerning the other Fathers by you alleged the thing for which they seeme sometimes to speake of Matrimonie not fauorably is the immoderate concupiscence or luste now after sinne by our first parentes committed which is of the holy Fathers reported to be malum asmuch to say an euil thing and to procede not of God but of sinne without which euil thing the thing that is good in Matrimonie that is to say generation can not be perfourmed This besides other Fathers S. Augustine calleth oftentimes malum an euil thing as carnalis concupiscentiae malum the euil of fleshly luste and malum libidinis the euil thing of carnal pleasure c. He saith that natural shamefastnesse sheweth it so to be by whiche it commeth to passe that although married personnes glorie in Children yet when they attend vpon the worke of begeting Children they choose them selues secrete places and wil al witnesses to be out of their waie thereby confessing the shamefastnesse it selfe of Nature And this muche our first Parentes confessed after they had sinned Gen. 3. by that they were ashamed and coouered their shamely partes with Figge tree leaues as the Scripture plainely declareth Neither proceedeth this euil thing of Marriage but of sinne August in Psal 70. and it is the paine of sinne In married personnes it is euil but no sinne malum poenae not malum culpae as the Scholastical Diuines cal it And this is the meaning of that saying of the authour that wrote the vnperfite worke vppon S. Matthew Opere imperfecto in Matth. Hom. 1. sub finem whome you wil needes to be S. Chrysostome The saying is this Haec ipsa Coniunctio Maritalis malum est ante Deum Non dico Peccatum sed malum This very wedlocke Coniunction it selfe is an euil thing before God I saie not it is Sinne but I saie it is an euil thing In translating whiche woordes you doo very falsly demeane your selfe and beguyle your vnlearned Reader For in that place the authour meaneth not by Coniunctio Matrialis the Copulation of Matrimonie as you translate it as though he said VVhat is that vvhich is of the
added vnto Gratian and wel may this be so named bicause it is a thing forged and litle worthe And how could Damasus write of so many Popes whiche liued after his death certaine hundred yeres He saith alleging for his authour Fabian the late merchant of London Pag. 167. that Marriages of Priestes in England were free a thousand yeres together and yet it is euidēt that the English Clergie was gouerned according to the order which our Apostle S. Augustin leaft who by S. Gregories rule might not allow married Priestes He saith the Priestes of England were neuer Votaries for proufe he saith boldely it is knowen and confessed which stout asseueration maketh weake proufe And were it so then surely if any had maried although he had sinned thereby yet the mariage should haue continued whiche is knowen to haue alwaies benne vsed otherwise He calleth the Vow of Chastitie an euil promisse Pag. 168. 169. and an vnhonest Vow whiche worde was neuer yet spoken by any good or honest man For our Ladie vowed her chastitie vnto God Luc. 1. as it is euident by the interpretation of many holy Fathers vpon S. Lukes Gospel He denieth primam fidem the first faith in S. Paule to be meant of the Vow of Chastitie Pag. 170. 1. Tim. 5. whiche is directly against the aunciēt fathers doctrine For although it were expounded of baptisme also yet none but Heretikes euer denied it to apperteine to Vowes He beareth the world in hande as though we violently forced yong Maidens to receiue Vowes Pag. 171. It cōmeth of their owne choise and of Gods grace and not of any constraint of ours He turneth Offerre to Minister the oblation or holy communion Pag. 172. whereas it is to make the oblation before that it be ministred He taketh halfe the sense of S. Paule awaye concerning those whom he exhorteth to absteine from the vse of wedlocke for a certaine time of praier as I prooued before He saith Paphnutius alone was proctour for the truth against the whole Councel of Nice Pag. 173. intending thereby to bring his reader in beleefe that one is better then three hundred and seuenteen For 318. Bishoppes were at that Councel Thus he seeketh to discredite Councelles He burdeneth vs as seming to say that the cōpanie of man and wife is filthinesse which we say not but teach Marriage to be a Sacramēt but yet as not betwen father and daughter so neither betwene Frier and Nonne He saith I haue falsified S. Chrysostoms woordes But it is not so Pag. 174 For S. Chrysostom saith that neither he that had two wiues at once nor he who had ben againe married after his first wiues death may be made Priest by S. Paules rule he speaketh of the seconde Marriage after the first wiues death saying Qui defuncta vxori beneuolentiam non seruat he that rendreth not good wil to his wife being dead how can he be a good gouernour ouer the Church So that by S Chrysostomes interpretation S. Paule literally forbiddeth him to be made Priest who hath had mo Wiues then one whether it were at once or one after an other He corrupteth the text of S. Chrysostom putting for the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this Latine Pag. 175. Chrysost in epist ad Titum Hom. 2. quae discessit à se her that is gone frō him in stede of this worde defunctae which is dead His coniecture taken of the Greeke worde is void and nothing worth For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 decedo doth signifie also to depart this life And it is plainer that S. Chrysostom expressely cōfesseth this sense which we defend saying Quidam hoc ita intelligunt vt ad episcopatū is assumatur qui vnius fuerit vxoris vir Some men do vnderstand this mater that he be taken to Bishophoode who hath ben the husband of one wife And that this last sense not being reproued of S. Chrysostome is the most literal sense it may appeare by these wordes of S. Paule Let her be chosen a widowe quae fuerit vnius viri vxor 1. Tim. 5. which hath ben the wife of one husband Wherefore as by the wife of one husband she is meant which hath not ben twise married so by the husbād of one wife he likewise is vnderstanded that hath not ben twise married Cassiodorus saith M. Iewel writeth that Eupsychius who suffered Martyrdome being newe married Pag. 176. was a Bishoppe What a shameful corruption is this to adde the woorde Bishoppe vnto the text whereas it is euident by Sozomenus the authour of the Storie and by Nicephorus that Eupsychius was a laie gentleman of Cesarea in Cappadocia as is before declared What vile forgerie is this M. Iewel to turne a Gentleman or a Noble man into a Bishop only that a Bishop might seeme to haue married So litle can your Marriages of Bishoppes and Priestes be mainteined without Lies He leaueth out the better halfe of the Glose reciting that parte Pag. 175. which the Glose alloweth not leauing that which it alloweth He saith that a good and diligent Bishop serueth rather the better bicause of marriage But how vntruly he saith it it is before sufficiently declared Certainly I may say were it true then Christ who was the best Bishoppe that euer was and omitted nothing whereby he might haue ben most perfite would haue ben married He saith S. Paule gaue rules to the Clergie that Bishops Pag. 182. and Deacons should be the husbādes of one wife the sense is not wel geuen It is to be vnderstanded that none other husbandes should be Bishops or Deacōs but such as had ben or were the husbandes of one wife He saith further immediatly after the former rule of one wife in the same tenour and course of speache S. Paule sheweth that some shal forbid to marrie This is false It doth not follow immediatly For there goeth betwen a cōmendation of the Church which S. Paule nameth the piller of truth and likewise of the Incarnation of Christ After which wordes S. Paule saith ◠Tim. 4. The spirit saith plainely that in the last daies some shal depart from the faith From whiche faith Verely from that faith of the incarnation and that whereof the Churche is the piller Marke the worde discedent à fide Discedent à fide they shal depart from the faith He that departeth from the faith once had the faith We neuer had your faith M. Iewel neither in any other point nor in this concerning the marriage of Priestes But we had and haue the faith that the lawful Marriage of Christian persons is a Sacrament and that faith had you once when you were baptized and incorporate in our Church You are gon from that faith and not we S. Paul then teacheth that some shal forbid Marriages as the Manichees Encratites and Marcionistes did of whom the Apostle prophecied as S. Chrysostom and diuers other Fathers doo expounde
of God Traditions c. The second Chapter Ievvel Pag. 193. In prooem in prouer Salomon Touching the booke of the Machabees vve saie nothing but that vve finde in S. Hierome S. Augustine and they holy fathers S. Hierom saith the Church receiueth them not emong the Canonical allovved scriptures Harding The bookes of the Machabees canonical emonge the faithful S. Hierome speaketh of such Canonical Scriptures of the olde Testament as the very Iewes allowed for Canonical Such in deede the bookes of the Machabees are not But why haue you not alleged S. Augustines wordes as wel as S. Hieromes Certainely bicause they condemne you For if yee said al that of the bookes of the Machabees which S. Augustine saith you would allowe them for Canonical Scriptures amonge faithful Christians August de De Ciuitat Dei lib. 18. ca. â—6 He saith Machabaeorum libros non Iudaei sed Ecclesia pro Canonicis habet As for the bookes of the Machabees not the Iewes but the Church accoÌ„pteth them for Canonical Hereunto I maiâ— adde but M. Iewel and his Companions accompte not the bookes of the Machabees for Canonical 〈◊〉 theâ—â—in they are of the Iewes Synagog and not of the Church of Christ Now see good Reader â–ª 〈…〉 be made when he said as thou findest noted in the mâ—rgeâ— of his booke Pag. 191. that he would denie no more then S. Austine S. Hierom and other Fathers haue â—enied If you say ye deny not the bookes of the Machabees â–ª 〈◊〉 â—eproue you praying for the dead which is so sufficiâ—â—â—y proued by those bookes Soothly if you allow the one you must allow the other Ievvel Pag. 193. S. Iames epistle Eusebius saith S. Iames Epistle vvas vvritten by some other and not by S. Iames VVe must vnderstand saith Eusebius that it is a bastard epistle Harding You haue abused Eusebius For he leaueth not there but goeth forward shewing what he ment by his word li. 2. c. 23. li. 2. c. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche you turne is a bastard But Ruffinus more ciuilly translated it à noÌ„nullis non recipitur The epistle is not receiued of some men And Eusebius him selfe addeth Nos tameÌ„ scinius etiaÌ„ istas cuÌ„ caeteris publicè aplerisque fuisse Ecclesiis receptas Yet we know that S. Iames and S. Iudes Epistles with the rest haue ben publikely receiued of most Churches wherby we learne that Eusebius meaÌ„t by the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 asmuch to say as it is accompted of some men not to be S. Iames owne Touching his owne iudgement he sheweth him selfe to be of the opinion that it is S. Iames epistle Of some he coÌ„fesseth by those wordes that it was doubted of Therfore you haue reported Eusebius vntruly making him to pronounce negatiuely of the epistle which directly he hath not don Iewel S. Hierome saith It is said that the Epistle of S. Iames vvas set forth by some other man vnder his name Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Harding I graunte But S. Hierom had said before those wordes which you allege Vnam tantum scripsit Epistolam quae de septem Catholicis est He wrote onely one epistle which is one of the seuen Canonical Epistles Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Ecclesi script Againe after the wordes by you alleged it followeth that the said epistle in processe of time hath obteined authoritie Ievvel 194. VVe Lutherans and Zuinglians agree throughly together in the vvhole substance of the Religion of Christe Harding I perceiue the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud is no substantial point with you and yet he that receiueth it vnworthily 1. Cor. 11. receiueth his damnation And he can not receiue it worthily who beleeueth amisse of it But either the Lutherans or the Zuinglians or bothe beleeue amisse thereof bicause in that behalfe they â—eache cleane contrary doctrine Therefore either both as the truth is or one of those two sectes as them selues must confesse receiueth alwaies vnworthily and consequently they must confesse that one of the two sectes is vtterly damned without any hope of saluation And certainely the Zuinglians as also the Caluinistes are the worse bicause they beleeue Goddes word lesse in some degree then Luther taught and go further from the literal sense of his Gospel 1. Timo. 3. and from the beleefe of the Church which is the piller of truthe Iewel 194. The Church is not God nor is able of her selfe to make or alter any article of the faith Harding Esai 59. Ioan. 14. But she is the spouse of God and to her he hath promised both his wordes and his spirite to remaine with her for euer And therefore she is the chiefe witnes of al the articles of the faith Wherefore seing you hearâ— not her witnesse you ought to be vnto vs as an Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publican Iewel Isai 8. Esaie saith to the lavv rather and to the testimonie If they ansvver not according to this vvorde they shal haue no Morning light Harding Iere. 31. Hebre. 8. This lawe is written also in our hartes as Ieremie and S. Paul doo witnesse And the successours of the Apostles geue also a testimonie of Christe no lesse Ioan. 15. then Christe said the Apostles should doo Therefore the lawe and testimonie whereunto Esaie calleth is as wel that which is written in faithful mennes hartes and which is witnessed in the Church as that which is written in the olde and new Testament Iewel Pag. 194. M. Harding saith further If quietnesse of Conscience comme of the vvorde of God onely then had Abel no more quietnesse of conscience then vvicked restlesse Cain c. VVho vvould thinke that M. Harding bearing suche a countenance of Diuinitie vvould thus goe about to deceiue him false vvith a pointe of Sophistrie Harding Who would thinke that M. Iewel being pressed with a point whereunto he is not hable to make answere would not thus go about to deceiue his vnlearned Reader with a point of Sophistrie I praie thee reader take the paines to peruse what the Apologie saith what I haue said in my CoÌ„futation and what M. Iewel bringeth in the Defence touching this matter I desire no more but that thou read it and then iudge as thou seest cause It is an easy matter for M. Iewel when he hath made me to speake what he listeth to frame an answere accordingly But I must alwaies warne the reader not to beleue M. Iewel when so euer he reporteth either my wordes or any other mannes M. Ievv shifteth him selfe from Scripture to Goddes vvorde but to repaire to the Original Fot seldom is he founde cleere of the crime of falsifying And here he entwiteth me of Sophistrie wheras in deede he vseth the grossest sleight of Sophistrie him selfe He conueigheth him selfe from the Canonical Scriptures to Goddes worde Now I spake of the Scriptures and he answereth of Goddes worde Defence pag 191. Whereas it is said in the Apologie that
his vvord they vvould euermore haue vs stand in doubt but of the Pope and his vvord they say in any vvise vve maie not doubt Harding Our doubte is not whether Gods word ought to be beleeued no man doubteth thereof But onely what is the meaning thereof And then besides to vnderstand it the better we ioine vniuersal tradition with it and in al further doubtes we say the Pope or the General Councel is the highest and laste iudge in earth to declare vnto vs the meaning of Gods worde Otherwise we should neuer haue an end of Controuersies as we see by experience betwen the Lutherans and Zuinglians Ievvel Pag. 200. 201. Hovv knovv you saith M. Harding that the scriptures be the scriptures c. The Church of God had the spirit of vvisedom vvhereby to discerne the true scriptures from the false So saith S. a In prooemi in Luc. Ambrose S. b cōt Fau lib. 22. Augustin and c 80. li. 6. ca. 2. Eusebius Yet vvil it not folovv that the Church is aboue the scriptures Harding If the Church of God haue the spirite of wisedome to discerne the true scriptures from the false shal it not also haue the same wisedom of God to expound the holy Scriptures and also to determine any question arising thereon Neither doo we say that the Church is aboue the Scriptures in authoritie but that it is to vs better knowen and as a more liuely so a more plaine teacher then the Scriptures be For if we aske the Scriptures any question Clemēs Alexand. li. strō 1 be it neuer so hard as Clemens Alexandrinus hath wel noted They wil answer vs no more then it is written But if any man aske the Church neuer so manie questions if the knowledge be behooful for mannes soule health it wil euer make him to eche question an answer and so wil dimisse him with a ful satisfaction touching al his doubtes 1. Tim. 3. For this cause the Church is called the piller of truth And as you confesse that the Church hath shewed vs which be the true Scriptures so must you likewise graunte that the Church hath the spirite of God to shew vs the truth in al behooful cases yea euen in those which be not expressely written For where is it written expressely that the church of God should haue the spirit of God for this ende to shew vs the true Scriptures to approue the true Scriptures and to condemne the false forgeries Luc. 10. Mat. 18. Christe said generally of al matters He that heareth you heareth me Item he that heareth not the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen and a Publican Of the Sacramentes of the Churche The thirde Chapter Iewel Defence Pag. 103. 104. M. Harding saith there be seuen Sacramentes vvhich as he saith do not only signifie a holy thing but also doo make holy those to vvhom they be adhibited But hovv can Matrimonie sanctifie a man and make him holy Or by vvhat institution of Christ conteineth it grace in it selfe and povver to sanctifie Harding Ephes 5. S. Paule answereth you thus Ye husbandes loue your wiues as Christ hath loued his Church And then he proueth the wife to be the flesh of the husband as also the Church is the body of Christe And so both waies the Prophecie of Adam is verefied Gen. 2. that two shal be in one flesh Sacramentum hoc magnum est in Christe Ecclesia Sacramēt Mysterie This is a great Sacrament or a great Misterie in Christe and the Churche For we stand not now vpon the worde but vpon the thing What is that great Mysterie First Matrimonie is alwaies a coniunction of two in one both by natural consent of myndes and also if it be consummate by corporal coniunction Now by Christes institution that coniunction is also made inseparable Matt. 19. when he said That which God hath ioined together let not man separate or put a sunder Nowe then this coniunction is made to be inseparable betwen faithful persons it is directed by Christ and instituted purposely to signifie his inseparable coniunction with the Church And whiles it is instituted of Christe to signifie that thing it is made a Sacrament or Mysterie whereunto Christe geueth grace and holinesse for that purpose For when any thing or action is appointed by Christ to signifie a holy thing in Religion that action is thereby made a Sacrament and doth sanctifie the worthy receiuers of it We see that Circumcision might be made and was vsed among some Infidels and to them it was no Sacrament Gen. 17. But when the faithful were commaunded to circumcide them selues to signifie the Circumcision of the harte which Christe should make in them that beleeued by his spirit and grace then Circumcision was made a Sacrament and did sanctifie the worthy receiuer Euen so it is in Matrimonie as S. Augustine saith August lib. 1. de Nupt. Concupis cap. 10. Ephes 5. Quoddam Sacramentum nuptiarum commendatur fidelibus coniugatis Vnde dicit Apostolus viri diligite vxores vestras sicut Christus dilexit Ecclesiam A certaine Sacrament of Marriage is commended vnto the faithful married personnes Whereupon the Apostle saith ye men loue your wiues euen as Christe loued his Churche Huius proculdubio Sacramenti res est vt mas foemina connubio copulati quà m diu viuunt inseparabiliter perseuerent Nec liceat excepta causa fornicationis à coniuge coniugem dirimi hoc enim custoditur in Christo Ecclesia vt viuens cum viuente in aeternum nullo diuortio separetur The thing doubtlesse of this Sacrament is The thing of the Sacrament of Matrimonie that the man and woman ioyned together in Marriage as long as they liue continew together vndisseuered and that it be not lauful for the one to be separated from the other but for fornication For this thing is kept in Christ and the Church that he lyuing with the liuing for euer by no diuorce be separated Here we learne not only that the name but also that the thing of a Sacrament is in the Marriage of Christians which thing doth sanctifie those persons that come worthily to Marriage For as Marriage was from the beginning ordeined to begete Children so by Christ it is ordeined to a higher signification verely not to be separated whiles the parties married together doo liue and thereby to signifie Christes inseparable vniō with his Church The chief signification of Matrimonie And as that vnion of Christ with vs is an inseparable sanctification to faithful men so is the signe thereof a special sanctification to them who married in our Lorde It is knowen that as S. Augustine assigneth there are tria bona matrimonij August li. de Nuptijs Concupisc fides proles Sacramentum Three good thinges are in Mariage the faith or fidelitie of wedlocke which the man and wife must kepe rendring duetie the
one to the other the childe which is brought foorth and the Sacrament whereof Christ said That which God hath ioyned Math. 19. let not man separate Iewel 042. In this place M. Iewel setteth vs forth a great many of Phrases The Fathers intreating of the Sacramentes haue vsed vehement and great vvordes c. Harding Whiles you hunte for wordes and Phrases you consider not that the Church of God had the practise of certaine thinges whereby the Fathers wordes were perfitely vnderstanded Restore vs those thinges whiche you can not denie to haue ben in the Primitiue Churche as holy oile Chrisme Monckes consecrated Virgins Altars and Sacrifice for the quicke and dead with other suche and then talke you of wordes what you list I accompt it labour lost to dispute with you about Phrases of speach vpon which Christes faith dependeth not but vpon his Institution and the practise and custom of his Churche the best interpreter of the same Iewel Pag. 206. The Sacramentes of the old and of the nevv lavv in truth and substance are al one Harding I knowe not what you meane by Truth and Substance I confesse the effecte of them al tendeth to one ende That is to ioyne vs with God and with Christe in harte wil and glorie But after Christes incarnation grace is more copiousely distributed by corporal instrumentes to the ende we maie learne to seeke our saluation by the fleash and body of Christe SacrameÌ„tes are the ordinarie meanes vvherby to receiue grace in our Soules Marci 16. Chrysostomus ad Hebrae Homil. 14 1. Cor. 10. Iohan. 20. Iacob 5. who was made Man to saue vs. And therefore although grace be only in our soules yet the ordinarie meane of receiuing grace commeth to vs by the Sacramentes accordingly as it is said He that beleueth and is baptised shal be saued Baptismus saith S. Chrysostom corporis mundatio non est sed animae Baptisme is not the cleansing of the Body but of the Soule Now the Soule is cleansed only by grace Therefore baptisme geueth grace as an instrument appointed therto by Christ And al we being many are one bread and one body which partake of the one bread to wit of the body of Christ saith S. Paule Whose sinnes ye forgeue they are forgeuen And he that is annointed with oile by the Priestes of the Church praying for him in the name of our Lord shal haue his sinnes forgeuen him if he be in any Iewel M. Harding vvil replie S. Augustine saith In Psal 73. the Sacramentes of the new testament geue saluation But his meaning is this Our Sacramentes teache vs that Saluation is alreadie come into the vvorlde Harding So then Dare is to teach and Salus is saluation come into the world Here is gaye geare for wantons to dally with wordes in matter of our Saluation Iewel Contrà Faust Manich. lib. 19. cap. 14. S. Augustine saith in an other place The Sacraments of the olde lavv vvere promises of thinges to be accomplished our Sacraments of the nevv lavv are tokens that the same promises be alreadie accomplished Harding If your wordes had any pith in them I would laye them out at large and answer them fully But now I graunt al that you saie What then Wil it folow that bicause our Sacramentes doo shewe that Christe is alreadie come therefore our Sacramentes geue no grace For that is the point whiche you denie Nay rather they geue grace therefore bicause they shew so much by his Institution For Christe maketh not naked shewes his wordes worke and his deedes be effectual in the soule and his Sacramentes both shew that whiche is done to wit the death of Christe and make vs partakers of the grace purchased by the same He that eateth Christes fleash 1. Cor. 11. Ioan. 6. sheweth his death saith S. Paul and he that eateth my fleash saith Christ hath life euerlasting Marke how our hauing of life goeth together with our shewing of Christes death You diuide these matters and make Christes Sacramentes only to be shewes Iewel M. Harding saith our doctrine is but in a corner of the vvorld and that therfore Christ hath geuen this vvatchevvorde of vs beleue them not Hovvbeit so many kingdoms Countries Common vveales as professe this daye the Gospel vvould make a good large Corner of the Church of God Harding I looke not only to your present state M. Iewel but I looke a litle backward For Christes Church began not with Frier Luther within these fiftie yeres but fifteen hundred yeres past Your Church is not yet very great and nothing so great as the Arians was Howbeit fiftie yeres past it was so smal that not only Christ but euen Photinus or Pelagius would haue benne ashamed of you For your candle was vnder a bushel and your congregation in the desert or in the secrete partes of the house Math. 5. Math. 24. which kinde of Congregations Christ willed vs not to beleeue For his Citie is alwaies vpon a Hil and can not be hid Iewel Pag. 208. Christ meant of Antichrist as it is very likely vvhen he said In Math. Homil. 49 beleue them not For out of the very true Churches come deceiuers as Chrysostome saith Harding And you are the members of Antichrist for you came out of the true Churche when you went from vs. Iewel 208. Verely hovvsoeuer M. Harding vvil shift this matter the plaine vvordes seeme rather to touch him and his companie then either Luther or Zuinglius or any other For they can point vvith their fingers and say here is Christe and there is Christ Behold in this pixe are three Christes in that fiue in that seuen in that moe Therefore it is likely that Christ geueth vs this special vvatchvvord of them and such others beleeue them not Harding If those wordes here is Christ and there is Christ Math. 24 Marc. 13. were meant of his body in the Sacrament euen at his owne Supper it might haue ben said here is Christ and there is Christ For in euery Apostles hand or mouth Christ then was Ambro. de iis qui initiantur myster c. 9. For as S. Ambrose witnesseth In illo Sacramento Christus est quia corpus Christi Christe is in that Sacrament bicause it is the body of Christe S. Chrysostom of purpose answereth your foolish obiection Chryso ad Heb. Homil 17. Quoniam in multis locis offertur Christus multi Christi sunt Nequaquam sed vnus vbique est Christus hîc plenus existens illic plenus vnum corpus Bicause Christ is offered in manie places are there manie Christes No not so But one Christ is in euery of the places being fully here and fully there it is one body Reseruation of the Sacrament of the Alter Againe this Sacrament was preserued euen in the Primitiue Church and sent by Deacons to those that were absent as S. a In Apologia 2. Iustinê° the Martyr and S. b
alleged For pride is no substance nor creature at al. Man only in his vnderstanding considereth it as somewhat whereas it is only a defecte and failing from humilitie For God neuer made vice Pride is a vice and therefore 〈…〉 But what shal a man saie to this fellow When the name of Substance seemeth to make for him then it standeth properly as the Philosophers vse the worde which is in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but when it seemeth to make against him then it standeth for grace faith wordes and Sacramentes which in some writers are named Substance as the diuines somtimes vse the terme whereto the Greeke terme Hypostasis answereth as S. Paule vseth it Heb. 11. How the Church is resolued in doubtful cases The truth is that seing wordes for the more parte are doubteful ambiguous and subiect to cauilles Christ hath not planted his Church in such sorte vpon wordes that his faithful members should thereby be diuided into many sectes For as he considering our infirmitie lefte vnto vs his holy wil conceiued in such wordes as menne vse in their common speache he lefte also with those wordes a high Pastor Iohan. 21. Luc. 22. by whom we should be fed for whose faith he prayed and his prayer is heard To which chiefe Pastor he gaue power and commaundement to strengthen and cōfirme his brethren So that it is in dede litle worth to hange of syllables and letters but it behoueth vs alwaies to seeke for the meaning of the worde And bicause we should neuer agree among our selues vpon wordes Math. 18. he bound vs to heare the Church the chiefe and ordinarie mouth whereof S. Peter was whiles he liued and after him the Bishops of Rome his Successours haue euer had the same place He then that wil be sure to know how euery worde that belongeth to matter of the faith must be taken in this or in that place of holy Scripture or of holy writers must be ruled by the mouth of his chiefe Pastor Act. 20. Now that Pastor calling to him out of al the worlde the chiefe and best learned Bishoppes ordeined by the holy Ghoste Gouernours of particular flockes hauing seene and heard al that might be said too and fro in the middest of foure hundred threescore and ten Bishoppes and of moe then a thousand learned Diuines besides the assistance of the holy Ghoste called for mature deliberation had and diligent examination of the Scriptures and holy Fathers made founde and by al their consente determined Concil Lateranen ca. 1. that the substance of bread and wine in the Sacrament of the Aulter is by the power of Gods worde changed into the substance of Christes Body and Bloud After whiche determination we know how Gelasius and how Theodoritus must of necessitie be vnderstanded if at the lest we wil heare the Churche as vnder paine of damnation we are bound to doo This answer may suffice al the cauilles that are moued and tossed by M. Iewel touching nature substance subsistence or any like worde Al wordes are ambiguous as S. Augustine confesseth In lib. de Dialecti The highest iudge in the highest courte of Christendome hath geuen sentence He that obeieth hath humilitie and seeth his grounde He that being loth to seeme deceiued wrangleth as M. Iewel doth is proude vaine contentious and disobedient which custome Heretikes haue and euer haue had but as S. Paule saith 1. Cor. 11. the Church of God hath it not Iewel Pag. 262. 263. To leaue these vnfruitful gheasses vve saie that the cuppe of blessing vvhich Christ calleth the Cuppe of the nevv Testament notvvithstanding it vvere made in a Mysterie the Sacrament of Christes Bloude yet in nature and substance vvas very vvine stil and as Christe him selfe calleth it the very fruite and generation of the grape as it vvas before The vvordes of the Euangelist S. Mathevv are very plaine Harding Would God I could so clearely shew to the Reader as the weight of this matter requireth how lewdly you playe as wel with the Gospel as with me It is not I M. Iewel that am incōstant in saying now these wordes were spoken before consecration and now after and perhaps at both times whereat you ieast and scoffe it is not I that changed my minde But whereas one of the Euangelistes telleth the matter one waye and the other an other waye and whereas sometimes they tel thinges out of order as your selfe can not but graunt my answer must needes be such as by al meanes to saue the truthe of the Gospel that howsoeuer these wordes were spoken which be obscure yet the plaine truth should not be hindred by them You sticke to the plaine wordes of S. Matthew as you saie And why sir I praye you may not I as wel claime that S. Lukes wordes are as plaine Luc. 22. I then haue myne eye to bothe and so make a distinction shewing how bothe together may be defended You litle esteming S. Luke talke to vs onely of S. Matthew whereby you declare that you beleue none other Euangeliste ne none other word of God beside your owne fansie Likewise you dissemble how diuersly the Fathers haue expounded the fruite of the Vine and vtter many wordes about a most knowen truth The fruit of the vine which no man denieth wherein as you deserue smal praise of learning so you lose amonge the wise the commendation of discretion For answer to al which I saie that it is a certaine case and cleere out of question that there was wine in Christes chalice whereof the Sacramēt should be made and yet forsoothe you would nedes proue it in many Pages together Againe I say that as there was wine in the chalice whereof the Sacrament should be made so after it was made there was no more the substance of wine And that I wil proue so plainely That after cōsecration there vvas no more the substance of vvine in Christes cup. Luc. 22. that you shal neuer be hable to answer to it Christe him selfe said if at the leste you admitte S. Lukes Gospel This Cuppe is the newe Testament in my Bloude whiche cuppe is shedde or shal be shedde for you The Cuppe shal be shedde for vs saith Christe that is to saye the liquour conteined in the Cuppe shal be shedde for vs. But natural or artificial wine was not shed for vs but onely Christes owne Bloude was shed for vs Ergo onely Christes owne Bloude is in that Cuppe and the substance of wine is not there at al. The wordes are plaine that which is in the Cup or chalice shal be shed for vs that was onely Christes Bloude Therefore onely Christes Bloude is in the Cuppe or Chalice But Christes Bloude is no wine excepte wee cal it wine in suche respecte as Christe him selfe is called the Vine and the grape Therefore no material wine of the common grape is in the Cuppe of Christes Supper Chrysost in 1. Cor. 10. With
Bernard fol. 12. a. Hovv M. Ievv may be pleased fol. 38. b. Flovvres of M. Ievvels modeste speache fol. 50. 51. 52. M. Ievvels scoffes and scornes against God his Church and his Saintes fol. 52. a. b. M. Ievvels Sacramentarie scoffes fol. 52. b. M. Ievvels scoffes against the Pope Bishops and Priestes fol. 52. b. 53. a. M. Ievvels general and particular scoffes fol. 53. 54. M. Ievvels Outcries and scoffing Oes fol. 55. b. M. Ievvels modest marginal Notes fol. 54. b. 55. a. b. M. Ievv plaieth many vntrue partes at once fol. 68. a. M. Ievv falsifieth my ansvver made in the Confutation fol. 44. b. 45. a. 68. b. 69. a. 128. b. 141. a. 147. a. 153 b. 180. b. 223. a. what it is to confute M. Ievv vvritinges fol. 76. b. M. Ievv repeateth obiections and allegations already ansvvered ād confuted dissembling vtterly al answer made fol. 83. b. 84. a 226. a. 227. b. 248. 249. 253. b. 255. b. 256. b. M. Ievvel defendeth opē rebellion and treason 86. a. b. 88. a. Item 183. and 184. in defending wickless trayterous heresie M. Ievvel reasoneth against the Church euen as the Donatistes did fol. 90. b. 91. a. M. Ievv blasphemously maligneth the conuersion of infidels to the faith fol. 96. b. 97. a. M. Ievv contrary to him selfe fol. 98. a. 101. b. M. Ievvels extreme impudencie fol. 106. b. 160. a. b. 221. a. M. Ievvels deceite in equiuocation of termes fol. 119. a. 134. a. M. Ievvels fond limitation against Lirinensis fol. 124. b. 125. a. M. Ievv fond conditions to admit one head of the Churche fol. 138. a. M. Ievvels vaine skoffing fol. 141. b. 150. b. M. Ievvels negatiue argumentes fol. 143. a. 226. b. M. Ievv alleageth obiections of the Doctors made against the Truth as Truthes auouched by the Doctours fol. 144. a. M. Ievvels vvaie to continevve vvrangling fol. 147. b. M. Iewelles ridiculous and loose Argumentes fol. 143. a. 152. b. 155. b. 160. b. 161. a. 162. a. 184. b. M. Iewel falsely alleageth the Fathers sayinges fol. 6. b. 113. a. 156. b. 157. a. 166. b. 173. b. 208. a. 240. b. 269. a. 286. a. 333. b. 387. a. M. Iewel falsifierh the holy Scripture fol. 160. a. 202. a. 222. a. 265. a. 266. b. M. Iewelles dissembling shifte fol. 163. a. M. Iewel misseallegeth the Ciuil Lawe fol. 168. b. 169. a. 380. b. M. Iewel missealleageth and falsifieth Gratian and his Glose fol. 169. a. b. 190. a. 191. a. 204 b. 383. a M. Iewel falsifieth the Councels fol. 183. a. 189. a. M. Iewels forging of the Fathers sayinges fol. 185. a. 186. 290. a. b. 203. b. 209. a. M. Iewel chargeth me with three mayne Lyes 189. b. Item with moe Lies fol. 287. a. 285. a. 295. b. 316. b. 303. a. 285. b. 310. b. 374. b. M. Iewel a scatterer no Successour of any one Bishop fol. 203. a. M. Iewel falsifieth al his Testimonies against Succession fol. 206. b. M. Iewel plaieth the very parte of Antichrist fol. 210. b. 245. a. M. Iewel falsifieth Bitontinus fol. 213. b. M. Iew. continually alleageth those mens sayinges for him vvhose dedes he knovveth to be against him fol. 213. b 229. a M. Ievvel neuer ordered Priest nor Bishop fol. 230. b. 222. a. b. M. Ievvel sticketh not to saie vntruely I vvas present and consented to his Election fol. 232. b. M. Ievvel can shevve no one Predecessour of his Religion in the See of Sarisburie fol. 241. 242. 243. M. Ievvel bevvraieth his lurking heresie fol. 244. M. Ievvels daie and night fol. 246. b. M. Ievvels Lying and Rhetorical addition of vvordes and sentences to his Authors sayinges fol. 199. a. 201. b. 203. b. 204. a. b. 205. b. 208. a. 258. a. 265. a. 302. a. 313. b. 305. a. Intercession to Saintes to praie for vs. fol. 358. a. Iohn the. 22. his errour fol. 64. b. 65. 66 255. b. Iohn Huss fol. 83. a. b. 103. b Iohn of Sarisburie fol. 258. 259. 260. Iohn 22. charged by M. Iew. with the errour of Iohn fol. 23. 66. b. Iohn of Constantinoples ambition fol. 141. a. Iosue mistaken for Osee confessed fol. 143. b. Iouinians heresie making Marriage and virginite of equal merite fol. 296. a. Iuuenalis and Thalassius not condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon fol. 73. b. 74. a. Iuste who maie be called in this life fol. 367. a. L. LAteran great Councel fol. 105. a. 110. b. Lady Interpreter noted of presumption fol. 120. The Lawe by what meanes it is fulfilled fol. 369. a. Leaders awaie of the Flocke who be they fol. 202. b. 267. b. A Legende of Leo alleged by M. Iewel a fonde fable fol. 251. a. Lenten Fast a custom of the Churche fol. 327. a. Leo the first defended from Arianisme fol. 172. b. 173. 174. 175. 176. 177. 251. 252. Liberius defended from Arianisme fol. 62. a. b. 250. a. Life euerlasting how freely geuen and how for good workes fol. 372. b. Light not put out in the Churche for a thousand yeres fol. 90. a. This terme my Lorde vsed of the Antiquitie fol. 175. a Loose Apostates whether the diuisers of this new Gospel maie not so be called fol. 35. b. Luthers dogge eloquence fol. 127. Lutherans and Zuinglians dissension fol. 322. b. M. MAcabees booke Canonical among the faithful fol. 321. b. Magistrate Ciuil not iudge in Ecclesiastical causes fol. 377. a. Manichees heresie denying Christes true flesh fol. 345. a. Marie the Virgin aduocate for Eue. fol. 359. b. Marie our Ladie Queene of al hope of the Fathers c. fol. 365. a. Marcellinus Pope Martyr fol. 248. b. Marcus Callidius an Oratour fol. 42. b. Marriage after Vowe of Chastitie what the Fathers haue iudged thereof fol. 278. b Married twise maie not be made Bisshoppes fol. 279. b. Marriage after holy Order euer accompted vnlawful amōg Catholiques fol. 280. a. Married Priestes in England in Anselmus time fol. 280. b. Marriage vnlawful in twoo cases fol. 281. a. Marriages three good thinges fol. 284. a. Married Priestes in olde time called Apostates fol. 296. b. Marriage a let vnto perfiter life by S. Chrysostome fol. 305. a. Matrimonie a Sacrament that geueth grace fol. 328. b. Masse said by Iohn Husse in his last daies fol. 83. a. b. Menna absolued fol. 382. a. b. Merite changed by M. Iewel into Preeminence fol. 163. a. Merites of Christes death be not receiued by faith only fol. 356. b. Merites of workes fol. 369. b. sequentib Ministers of Tourney fol. 85. a. Monica S. Augustines mother laboured to conuert her husband fol. 315. a. Montanistes heresies fol. 327. a. N. NEstorius a scatterer of the flocke fol. 203. a. Nicephorus belied by M. Iew. fol. 303. a. Nilus a late Greeke Schismatike fol. 225. a. Nipping of Doctours by M. Iewel fol. 305. a. North partes conuerted to the faith in these later ages fol. 94. b. O. Oddes betwene the Protestantes and Catholiques fol. 30. a. 107. b. An Oration forged in the name of Pius fol. 4. 97. b. Order
of Popes at the first succeding one an other fol. 219. b. Ordination and Confirmation diuers fol. 227. b. Origen falsified by M. Iewel fol. 286. a. 333. b. Orders Ecclesiastical fol. 134. b. 135. a. P. Papistrie can not be shewed when it beganne fol. 106. b Patriarkes fol. 180. Peter Martyr in Strasbourg a Lutheran in England a Zuinglian fol. 34. b. Peter Martyr and dame Catherine his wife fol. 36. b. Peter Martyr at variance vvith Brentius fol. 117. b. Peters authoritie and prerogatiue fol. 174. a. 175. 176. Peter ouer the Christian Gentiles at Rome fol. 221. 〈…〉 Peter when he came to Rome fol. 221. b. Peter the feeder of al sortes in the flocke fol. 148. b. c. Peters humilitie fol. 153. Peter offended twise fol. 157. Peter foloweth the rest yet head of al by S. Augustine fol. 158. Peter receiued into indiuisible vnitie with Christ fol. 174. a. Peter ioyned with fol. Leo. 176. a. Pelagius heresie mainteined by the Caluinistes fol. 367. a. Perfection double one of Pilgrimes the other of heauen fol. 368. b Petitio principij muche vsed by M. Iewel fol. 89. a. Platina no flatterer of the Pope fol. 257. b. Pope the Heade of the Churche fol. 130. b. The Popes Supremacie proued fol. 146. 147. 148. 149. 159. b. 179. 186. a. b. The Pope Prince of Pastours fol. 177. b 178. a. The Pope leaft the Vicare of Christes loue towardes vs. fol. 148. a. The Popes confirming of Bishops fol. 223. b. 224. seq Popes charged with heresie and other enormites defended fol. 248. 249. 250. 251. 252. 253. 254. 255. 256. 257. 258. The Pope Peters Successour fol. 273. a. The Pope laufully called the Princâ—… of Pastours fol. 177. b. Possibilitie of keping Gods Commaundementes fol. 366. b. Priesthood double fol. 239. a. Priest aboue a Deacon fol. 164. b. Priestes of England are Votaries fol. 290. b. Priestes of Greece in what sence they are Votaries fol. 298. a. Priestes and religious menne whether they maie be dispensed to marrie fol. 300. b. Priestes only Iudges ouer Priestes fol. 377. a. Praying for the dead taught by S. Paule fol. 326. b. Protestantes dissent not onely one from an other but also from them selues fol. 34. a. Protestantes varie from the Primitiue Churche fol. 270. b. Protestantes be Apostates fol. 336. b. Protestantes are proued by an inuincible Argument to be no part of Christes Churche fol. 90. a. b. 92. Puritanes fol. 139. a. 332. a. R. RAymeris made king of Arragon of a Monke and married by dispensation fol. 301. a. Real presence cleerely witnessed fol. 79. a. proued 339. sequentib Rebellion against Princes mainteined by M. Iewel fol. 86. a. Religious menne married the first fouÌ„ders of this new Gospel fol. 36. b Reseruation of the Sacramente fol. 331. b. Righteousnes competent for this life fol. 368. a. Rounde capped Ministers fol. 86. b. Ruffianrie of M. Iewel detected fol. 120. b. Ruffinus belied by M. Iew. fol. 285. b. S. SAbellicus falsified by M. Iewel fol. 139. b. Sacramentes meanes to receiue grace fol. 330. a. Sacramentes seuen fol. 334 a. Sacrament of the Aulter called our maker and Lorde by S. Augustine fol. 346. a. Sacramentaries persecuted by the Lutheranes fol. 95. b. 96. a. Sacramentaries condemned by the Lutheranes fol. 104. b. Seruus seruuorum Dei the Popes stile fol. 187. b. Seuerus a blinde man by touche of a Martyrs garment recouered sight fol. 364. a. Shaxton Bishoppe no Protestant fol. 241. b. Shaxton and Capon Bishoppes of Sarisburie repented fol. 194. a. Shaxton B. not of M. Iewele side fol. 242. b. Sharpe vvordes founde in the Scriptures fol. 27. b. Sheepe of three sortes fol. 149. a. Siritius and Innocentius vvere not the first ordeiners of Clerkes coÌ„tinencie fol. 279. a. Sozomenus Gregorie Nazianzen and Eusebius belied by the Apologie fol. 309. a. Sophistrie of M. Ievvels shifting from the Scriptures to Goddes vvorde fol. 323. a. Spiridion made Bishop of a married laie man fol. 285. a Syluester 2. Pope fol. 249. a. Succession of Bishoppes treated of at large Lib. fol. 4. Succession of Bishoppes a certaine rule to knovve the Churche by fol. 198. b. 199. sequent Succession can not lacke the Truth fol. 199. 200. Succession lavvful can not be taken avvaie by man fol. 211. T. TErtulliaÌ„ of a married man made a Prieste fol. 285. a. Tertullians errour fol. 239. 240. Three vvaies of vvriting against an aduersarie fol. 42. b. Tradition fol. 270. a. Traditions belonging to SacrameÌ„ts maie not be changed Ceremonies maie fol. 326. a. Traditores what they were in the primitiue Churche fol. 91. a. Transubstantiation fol. 110. b. treated of 346. b. This is my Bodie meant properly fol. 339. a. Turkes inuasion brideled fol. 266. a. V. VAriance of opinion betwen two Ministers of Valencenes in the time of the Siege fol. 84. b. Victor the Pope his death fol. 58. a Virgilius Pope his CoÌ„stancie fol. 200. a Vnitie can not be without a supreme head fol. 140. b. 141. a. 152. 153. a. Vniuersal Bishop truly attributed to the Pope fol. 185. b. 186. 187. 188. sequent Votaries maie not conueniently marrie by M. Iewel fol. 289. a. Vow breakers in what danger they stande fol. 278. a. Vow of Chastitie annexed to holy Orders fol. 291. a. Vow of Chastitie made in facte though no vvordes be spoken fol. 292. b. Vovve made in vvhat case marriage holdeth or holdeth not by the determination of the Churche fol. 294. b Vrspergensis set out by Melanchthon onely fol. 57. b. VV VVAldenses heresies fol. 102. b. VVedlockes il thing is inordinate luste fol. 283. b. VVickleff his heresies fol. 82. b. 63. a. VViues that couerted their vnfaithful husbandes fol. 61. b. 350. a. VVordes of God not written fol. 270. a. VVorkes hovv meritorious of infinite revvarde fol. 371. b. Faultes escaped in the printing Faulte leafe line Correction my 27. a. 27. may sor 38. a. 12. sory Golfridus 83. b. 25. Galfridus lustly 135. b. 23. lusty famofum 170. b. 9. fumosum to 179. b. 28. lut it out least 180. b. 28. leaft S. of 198. a. 19. of S. In the margent 202. a.  a note superfluous Liber hic D.M.N. Thomae Hardingi lectus approbatus est à viris Anglici idiomatis Theologiae peritissimis vt sine periculo imprimi publicari possit Quanquam alioqui ipse D. Hardingus mihi tà m probè notus est vt de eius cruditione fide prudentia nihil sit dubitandum Cunerus Petri Pastor S. Petri Louanij 21. Maij. An. 1568.
lyes and gloses and also an vnprofitable bestowing of good time Iewel They are gonne from Faith to infidelitie from Christe to Antichrists Harding Which they M. Iewel Did he speake of the Popeâ—… of Rome M. Ievvel odiously layeth that to the Bishops of Rome vvhiche vvas spoken generally by vvaie of coÌ„plaint of al euil ChristiaÌ„s You say touching the Church of Rome c. And yet now you bring forth that which was generally spoken and that by waie of complaint of al euil Christians and not namely of the Bisshops of Rome Againe how are they gonne from faith to infidelitie and from Christ to Antichrist Verely bicause they are gonne froÌ„ God to Epicure that is to say bicause many of them liue as if they had neither faith nor Christ nor God Last of al he saith not they are gonne as you falsifie his wordes but with a moderation would God they were not gonne He sheweth him selfe to feare lest they be gonne he taketh not vpon him boldly to affirme it as you doo Iewel And yet al other thinges failing they must holde onely by Succession and only bicause they sit in Moyses Chaire they must claime the possession of the vvhole This is the right and vertue of their Succession Harding Is it not reason if secular men hold their kingdomes landes goodes and rightes by Succession yea when al other rightes forces and vertues faile that Gods Ministers if they had nothing els leaft should hold stil their owne also by Succession It is wel knowen that the Bishops of Rome haue more then only Succession For they make good Decrees they geue answer to great consultations they cal General and Prouincial Councelles they execute the Canons of them and send forth Preachers as of late they haue done euen vnto the new found Indies beside many other godly and vertuous actes which they exercise for the saluation of their own soules and of the people But what if they had nothing but Succession Would you then haue men forsake their folde and Church Did Isaias so did Esdras so did Iudas Machabeus so did Zacharias so did S. Iohn Baptist so Can you deuise the Popes to be worse then Caiphas or the Pharisees Math. 23. And yet Christ willed them to be obeied albeit they had litle els beside Succession It is this Succession M. Iewel which shal lie in your and in your companions waie at the dredful day of accompte It shal not be demaunded of euery man why he studied not the Scriptures which most men haue not learned to reade But it shal be demaunded why they haue no faith nor charitie No faith by forsaking the open and knowen Succession no charitie by breaking vnitie Euery man seeth Succession ignorance can not be pretended and euery man shal be iudged by it concerning his Faith Iewel The vvordes of Tertullian M. Harding vvhich you haue here alleged vvere spoken of certaine your ancient fathers that had raised vp a nevv religion of them selues as you haue also done vvithout either vvorde of God or example of the Apostles and holy fathers Harding It is happy that at the length Here at length M. Ievvel beginneth to ansvver my vvordes but how consider you beginne to answere my wordes We shal now see how wel you touche Tertullians meaning You say his wordes were spoken of certaine my ancient Fathers That can not be so For none are in this behalfe my fathers but those who loue wel the Succession of Bishops But Tertullian spake of those De Prascription aduersus Haret that esteemed the Succession of Bishops as litle as you do And therefore they are your fathers of whom he speaketh that is to say they are Heretikes of whom he speaketh For in dede no heretike can abide Succession bicause they would faine iustle out the olde Succession to schuffle in their new Intrusion You say the men of whom Tertullian speaketh raised vp a new Religion of them selues and therein you say truth You adde as I also haue donne but therein you belye me for ye are not hable to laye any one point of doctrine to my charge wherein I follow not that old Succession which abhorreth al new Religion Let al the worlde iudge who raiseth vp a newe Religion you or I. You say the Heretiques of who Tertullian spake raised vp a new Religion without the Worde of God example of the Apostles or of holy Fathers If you meane without the true meaning of Gods worde you say truth and then you also are without Gods worde bicause you are without the Church whereunto Gods worde with the true interpretation thereof was geuen and we are not without it bicause we conteine our selues within the Churche But if you meane that these heretikes did not sounde the wordes of the Scriptures in their lippes as falsely and withal as fast as you doo then you say not truly For Tertullian in that booke doth shew that the Heretikes also appealed to the Scriptures Tertullian in Prascript aduersus haeret and he answered that to striue with heretiques vpon the scriptures was a thing of vncertaine victorie bicause one saith it is not holy Scripture an other saith it is holy Scripture one saith it is meant thus an other saith it is â—â—â—â—t otherwise But saith Tertullian the interpretation of the Scriptures belongeth to them It booteth not to striue vvith heretiques about the Scriptures who haue the true faith and he concludeth that they haue the true faith who haue the perpetual Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne daies Scripturas obtendunt hac sua audacia statim quosdam mouent The Heretiques pretende to bring Scriptures for them selues and with that their impudencie forthwith they shake some And afterward Ibidem Ergo non ad scripturas prouocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen in quibus aut nulla aut incerta victoria est aut parum certa Therefore we must not alwaies appeale vnto the Scriptures neither must we striue about them in which either no victorie at al or an vncertaine or verely not very certaine victorie is obteined Then sheweth he that heretikes of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures but onely the Catholiques Heretiques of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures TertulliaÌ„ Ibidem to whom the Apostles deliuered them and not them only but other thinges also viua voce by mouth and worde without writing Si hac ita sunt constat proinde omnem doctrinam quae cum illis Ecclesiis Apostolicis matricibus et originalibus fidei conspiret veritati deputandam reliquam verò omnem doctrinam de mendacio praeiudicandam quae sapiat contra veritatem Ecclesiarum Apostolorum Christi Dei. If this be so then is it euident that al such doctrine as agreeth with those that are the Apostolique Churches the mother Churches and the original Churches of the faith is to be taken for true and that al other