So that we may most truely affirme that there is no one tenent of our Church but we haue a plaine place of Scripture for it but it may truly be retorted vpon you that you haue not one plaine place for any one of your tenents or practices so that ye are faine miserably to wrest and straine any text hence alledged and when that will not doe to fly to Apochryphall bookes traditions and ridiculous fables Elym Are all these sayings in your Bible if they bee it is more then I know but sure I am that there are sentences plainly teaching the same that we doe For what else is that saying of our Sauiour This is my body and my flesh is meat indeed and blood drinke indeed and vpon this rocke will I build my Church and to thee will I giue the Keyes of the Kingdome of heauen and againe Peter feed my sheepe And touching the Church Math. 18.17 1 Tim 3.15 If he heareth not the Church let him be to thee as an Ethnicke and the Church is the ground and pillar of truth Touching other points we need none other Scripture seeing to the Church it is promised Ioh. 16.13 When he is come which is the spirit of truth he will lead you into all truth Wherefore the Church cannot erre and whatsoeuer is by her propounded as matter of faith or practice must needs then be right But bee it knowne vnto you that wee want not plaine places for particular points Touching iustification Iam. 2.24 A man is not iustified by faith onely but by workes Touching prayer for the dead There is a sinne vnto death I say not that yee should pray for it 1 Ioh. 5.16 Iam. 5.14 Luke 7.47 Math. 25. Touching extreame vnction They shall pray for him and anoint him in the name of the Lord. Touching the merit of workes Many sinnes are forgiuen her because shee hath loued much and Come ye blessed c. for I was hungry and yee fed me c. For time would faile me if I should go on to alleage all the places that plainly make for vs. Paul You doe well so to slieglit our euidences brought out of the holy Scriptures because they are so plaine that they cannot bee answered neither indeed doe your sect much acquaint your selues with the Bible for there are some students in Diuinity of many yeares that neuer read the Bible To your places therefore How doth the speech of our Sauiour make for Transubstantiation without altering or adding It is meat indeed we confesse but he saith not is meat for the body nor yet in explaining himself afterwards hath he one word intimating a bodily substance that he would giue to be fed vpon but the clean contrary for he saith Ioh. 6.63 the flesh profiteth nothing my words are spirit and life Againe for those sayings vnto Peter there is nothing plaine for Peters supremacy for his bearing vp all as a foundation and much lesse for his pretended successours the Bishops of Rome For plainly to teach these things had beene to haue said vpon thee and thy successours will I build my Church and to thee and to him that shall succeed thee in thy Bishopricke at Rome I will giue authority ouer all others But so far is the Lord from this that when there was iust occasion offered vpon the motion of the mother of Zebedees children to declare the supreme when they contended about it amongst themselues hee speaketh no word to settle the supremacy vpon any one but altogether to stop the mouth of any from once challenging it But I haue spoken sufficiently of this before so that I shall not need to adde any thing about his commission to feed his sheepe It is maruaile that when all chiefe points of faith are so plainely expressed that this which is so much stood vpon as inferiour to none should be so obscurely passed ouer Touching the Church there is nothing plainely spoken that it shall be alwayes visible but onely it may be implyed that as long as there are Christians to doe those mutuall offices of reproouing one another for sinne there shall be a discipline exercised in the Church how corrupt soeuer for the chastisement of such as are complained of as manifest transgressors of the Law the iust proceedings whereof notwithstanding the corruptions are of force to the terror of malefactors For that saying tell the Church at that time had reference to a most corrupt Church of Scribes and Pharisees whose authority was yet by the Lord established saying Math. 23.1 whatsoeuer they bid you obserue that obserue and doe So that from hence nothing more can be rightly taught no not by inference but that there shall alwayes be some visible Church good or bad which we also acknowledge But in case that there bee two such Churches together who doubteth forsaking that which is corrupt to goe to the best and soundest Touching error from which you seeke to exempt your Church because the Church is called the gound and pillar of truth what is this to the present Church of Rome the sinke of most grosse errors and superstitions The true Church indeed such as it was in those dayes founded vpon the Prophets and Apostles Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner slone Ephes 2.20 was the ground of truth because therein the truth was preserued and vpheld and wheresoeuer it is so at this day that Church is likewise the ground and pillar of truth But it doth not necessarily follow that wheresoeuer the Church is whether sound or corrupt it is the ground of truth for so much as the truth held and eleaued vnto in all things maketh the Church the pillar and ground of truth and not the Church that to be true whatsoeuer she shall think good to propound For otherwise Christ the Prophets Apostles with their dictates institutions and writings should not bee a ground vnto men succeeding and inferiour to them but these men should bee a ground vnto them which were absurd And the same I answer to that promise of the spirit it was peculiar to the Apostles and special instruments stirred vp for those times to be so guided into all truth as not to erre because what came from them was to bee a ground to the faithfull in all succeeding ages and it is most palpably wrested to your Church now And if your fundamentall places be thus impertinently alledged the rest will fall without any labour at the least most worthy Sergius you may be able to iudge hereof by that which hath beene already spoken in laying open the faith of the reformed Church Serg. Paul When these places were first alledged by Elymas I thought it impossible to answer them and therefore did begin to incline to thinke better of the Roman Church then you had perswaded me but now I see that they are but the painting and colouring of a deformed face being without all true beauty And for the places omitted I haue them
thus I haue faithfully related the practice of the Reformed or Protestant Church Serg. Paul But why is this called the Reformed Church hath Christ any more Churches but one Saul No the Church of Christ is but one wheresoeuer dispersed in all the world but this Church partly through the ambition and couetousnesse of the Popes of Rome and of the rest of the chiefe of the Clergie and partly through blind deuotion became very corrupt both in doctrine and manner of seruing God wherein hauing lyon many yeares to the griefe of the truely zealous and wise who did what they could or durst to rectifie things againe but without effect at length though very loth so to doe many without feare of bodily danger separated themselues from all society and communion with those that still adliered to these curruptions teaching and holding as hath be one before deelared who notwithstanding the hot brunts of persecution which they met withall increased dayly whole Countreys and Kingdomes being in a short time by Gods prouidence ioyned vnto them And because of this reformation about which they made then protestation that simply for conscience towards God and his Truth and onely according to his written Word they thus proceeded they were called the Reformed or Protestant Church others willfully cleauing to their corruptions still and to the Pope and Roman Clergy the chiefe maintainers hereof were called the Church of Rome or the Popish Church or as they needes will haue it Roman Catholikes Serg. Paul Then it seemeth that the Church anciently one is now become two the one opposite to the other Or are they both one Church still but diuided for their contrary opinions and manners in many things Saul As the Church of Christ hath beene so it still is and euer shall bee one and not two for it is Christ Spouse which is onely one I doe not therefore acknowledge but aduisedly deny the Church of Rome to be a true Church of Christ Reu. 3.1 As the Church of Sardis had a name to be aline but was dead so it may hold this name still but is indeed a very carkasse without a soule by reason of the grosse errours therein maintained and practised for truth is the life of the Church The reformed Church then is the onely true Church neither may we returne againe to them vpon paine of damnation but they must and shall come to vs at the last for truth is stronger then all Serg. Paul But the maine truth is still maintained in the Church of Rome viz. That Iesus is the Sonne of God and hast not thou thy selfe taught 1. Cor 3. that who so buildeth vpon the foundation Christ Iesus though but hay or stubble which shall hurne yet himselfe shall escape as it were through the fire What is this but that so Christ bee cleaued vnto no erroneous opinions or practice in the seruice of God shall damne the soule Saul The Church of Rome teacheth indeed generally this truth touching Christ Iesus but in the particular explication of what they hold hereabout they doe plainly raze this foundation and so their building is not vpon the foundation Christ described in the New Testament but imagined in their owne braines Againe although the foundation were rightly held yet they are builders onely that shall be saued not destroyers or demolishers as they of the Church of Rome are Serg. Paul Wherein doe they raze the foundation Christ Saul In that they doe not rely vpon Christ only for saluation and grace For this is the property of a foundation to beare vp all the building alone if it be the only foundation as I haue taught that Christ is If then the building rest partly vpon some other foundation this is in effect razed because though this be sound yet the other vpon which it partly standeth being deceitfull and vnsound when that shall faile the whole building cannot but come downe Serg. Paul It seemeth then that Christ is the foundation to them onely that rest vpon him alone and that they which together with him rely vpon any thing else are in effect gone from the foundation and so shall haue no more benefit of it then they that hold not Christ at all Can you proue the Roman Catholikes to be such Saul There is nothing more plaine to them that will vnderstand For first when Christ only is relyed vpon and so made the onely soundation his passions alone are held to be fully satisfactory for all punishments due to vs for all our sins both temporall and eternall Secondly all merit whereby we become worthy of saluation is held to be in him onely Thirdly His mediation onely to God the Father is rested vpon to obtaine any benefit or helpe in the time of need Fourthly The beginning progresse and perfection of all grace is imputed to him onely through the working of his Spirit and nothing to a mans selfe But the contrary to all these are maintained in the Church of Rome Serg. Paul Declare this more particularly and first that they rely not vpon his passions onely as fully satisfactory Saul They say that he hath satisfied for all eternall punishments in hell but not for temporall for these are left to vs to be satisfied for partly here by acts of penance and partly hereafter in purgatory And that there are certaine lesser sinnes called veniall for which we our selues must satisfie Flatly contrary to Saint Iohn who saith 1. Ioh 1.6 the blood of Iesus Christ cleanseth vs from all sin And I haue taught that Christ hath redeemed vs from the curse of the Law being made a curse for vs Gal. 3.13 Now this curse did as well extend to temporall as eternall punishments witnesse Moses his dilating vpon it Deut. 28. and Leuit. 26. throughout which Chapters he sheweth that the curse comming by sinne is temporall Serg. Paul If Christ had satisfied herein for vs were it not iniustice in God to put his to so much smart againe daily by sickenesses losses ignominies and persecutions in the world Saul It were iniustice indeed if our sins being forgiuen and clensed away in Christs blood hee should still require vs to be temporally panished Luke 23.16 This were iust Pilates iustice I finde no fault in this man I will therefore scourge him and let him goe God forbid that wee should once thinke the most righteous Lord to be such in his proceedings It is to bee vnderstood therefore that the smart imposed vpon vs here is onely either for our triall or for our correction in loue as parents are wont to deale with their children Serg. Paul What doe they hold touching merit Saul That Christs death and passion alone are not the meritorious cause of our saluation but the blessed Virgin Mary and the holy Apostles and other Saints which haue suffered death for the Gospell haue also merited for vs and that there is merit in the sacrifice of the Masse extended to all both quicke and dead and
Betweene Anno 1200 Hist Magd. Cent. 13. c. 2. and 1300 Gulielm de Sancto amers was banished for an heretike and had his bookes burnt and Robert Grosted Bishop of Lincolne greatly opposed the Pope Between An. 1300 and 1400 was Iohn Wickliffe professor of diuinitie in Oxford who opposed the Pope in sundry points Hist Magd. Cent. 14. And out of Greece came diuers by reason of the Turkish tyranny amongst whom Marsilius Patauinus was of most note he maintained that the Pope had no power ouer other Bishops much lesse ouer Kings Armachanus an Archb. in Ireland and Iohannes de Rupeseissa were of the same opinion also And after this Iohn Husse and Ierome of Prague with almost all the country of Bohemia were famous for standing for the truth Serg. Paul But these were but a few in an age neither could they make a Church how hapned it that there were no more till Wickliffes time Paul Where Bishops and learned teachers haue been stirred vp to stand for the truth there is no doubt but as lights of the world they did inlighten many more though they be to vs vnknowne Neither was the mysterie of iniquity growne to that height till about Wickliffes time and the dayes of the succeeding Worthies so that the Romane religion was not altogether so dangerous but now they being almost quite gone from Christ their superstitious deuotion increasing towards the Virgin Mary and the rest of the Saints satisfying for a mans owne sins in part being taught and the merit of workes and freedome of will set vp and the assurance of faith condemned and such horrible idolatry with the Masse more then euer committed they which had the Spirit of God in any measure within them could no longer forbeare but in great companies vtterly separate from the Church of Rome lest whilst they would bee worshippers of Christ they should become limmes of Antichrist to the destruction of their soules Elymas Nay rather are ye now become limmes of Antichrist by following Martin Luther a Monke that brake his Vow and maried a Nunne was of a notorious wicked life and had consultation with the Deuill and so went to the Deuill at the last and by following King Henry 8 a man so sensuall and tyranicall for these and such like were your leaders to this Schisme and not any good Spirit as yee pretend Paul In seeking to wound the truth through the sides of these men you doe but according to your accustomed manner it being one of the Pillars of your Religion to lay slanderous imputations vpon your Aduersaries as a late Writer of ours hath notably shewed Willet Tetrastul Papismi But as for Martin Luther it is well knowne that he was a man of great zeale for the truth and succeeded accordingly your Pope and all your power not being able to lay violent hands vpon him but that hee was preserued to dye in peace If there were any thing taxable in him in what holy man hath there not beene likewise it is no preiudice to the truth which hee stood for no more then Saint Pauls forepassed persecuting and blaspheming was to the Gospel And for King Henry 8 God can vse any instrument to beat down the pride of such an enemy as the Pope as be vsed Nebuchadnezzar to chastice idolatrous Iudah and the Syrian Presidents and Romane Emperours to destroy Christs enemies and to abrogate the legall seruice by burning vp the Temple and yet this made nothing the more for the credit of the Iewes Religion or discredit of the Christian thus aduanced But because you haue giuen mee so iust occasion I say that if the wickednesse and miscrable ends of chiefe erectors of any Religion be an argument of a bad religion as vndoubtedly it is the Religion of the Church of Rome is abundantly conuinced to bee such seeing so many Poper haue beene so notoriously wicked and perished so miserably and such apparant iudgements haue beene executed vpon others that hath holpen to aduance it Gregory the third who drew vp the Popedome to such a high pin was a most wicked man for when Phocas who had murthered Mauricius Platina and was therefore greatly taxed by the Patriarke of Constantinople for which hee was much offended with him hee sent his image to Rome and Gregory receiued it honourably and flattereth with this parricide but inioyed not long the honour of vniuersall Bishop thus attained for he dyed within nine moneths after And Phocas the founder of the primacy proued soone after a slothfull beast Pompon Latus Paul Diacon cruelly murthering many of the Nobles rauishing many Matrons and Virgins wallowing in dayly drunkennesse and acocrdingly was rewarded For hee was taken by Priscus and Heracleon and his hands being fast cut off then his priuy member he was beheaded and his body burnt in a brazen Bull R. Barus supplem Chron. Nancl. and all his posterity destroyed with him Siluester the second was a Coniurer and was slaine by the Deuil Iob. Marius when he was saying Masse in the Chappell of the Crosse of Ierusalem Iohn the 13 committed Incest with two of his Sifters and was slaine at the last in the act of Adultery Gregory the seuenth put out the eyes of Iohn the 15 and killed him with famine in the Castle of Saint Angelo that he might reigne in his stead and hauing laboured mightily to aduance the papall Sea he was shortly cut off by a sudden death and his body was drawne by the feet through the streets Fascic Temp. Otho 1. and pierced with speares by the Romanes Whereupon the History called Fosciculus temporâ—â— noreth that the Bishops of Rome were now adayes slaine as in the Primitiue Church but were not made Martyrs as they there was the like death but not the like cause thy suffered as wailde lambes following the Lambr Christ Plat. vit pontif these as ranâ—â—ing Wolues an empting a new Empire Gregory the ninth dyed in despaise Boniface the eighth dyed of madnesse Paul the second hauing yoted as much as euer did Hesiegabalus dyed of an Apoplexy Alexander the sixt committed Incest with his owne daughter whom also he maried to his sonue Pasquil Natal comes Hist l. 4. and was at the last poysoned by him Pius the fourth dyed in the very bosome of his Concubine Paul the third when he had waxed old in a filthy course of life dyed crying out my sinne is alwayes against mee And what should I reckon vp more whoso desireth to read further of them let him looke into Pelanus Dan. part 2. p. 467 and Parker of the Grosse who sheweth what whores and Ganimedes by name seuerall Popes haue had Sergius had Marozia Gregory the seuenth Matildis Alexander the sixt Lucretia all their daughters or Sisters Sextus the fourth had for his Ganimede Riarius Iulius the second Germanus Leo the tenth Hypolitus Iulius the third Innocentius c. And Napier who in his exposition vpon the Rouelation
AN ANTIDOTE AGAINST POPERY Confected out of Scriptures Fathers Councels and Histories WHEREIN DIALOGVE-wise are shewed the points grounds and antiquitie of the Protestant Religion and the first springing vp of the points of Popery together with the Antichristianisme thereof Being alone sufficient to inable any Protestant of meane capacitie to vnderstand and yeeld a reason of his Religion and to incounter with and foyle the Aduersary By Iohn Mayer B. D. and Pastor of the Church of little Wratting in Suffolke LONDON Printed by M. F. for Iohn Grismand and are to be sold at his Shop in Pauls Alley at the signe of the Gunne 1625. TO THE HIGH AND MIGHTY JAMES BY THE grace of God King of Great Britaine France and Ireland Defender of the Faith c. Dread Soueraigne AFter that I had compiled this ensâ—ing Dialogue I thought your Maiestie the most fit Maecenas for it both in respect of the matter and manner The matter is a Dispute about Religion both Protestant and Popish the manner is by vsurping certaine names occurring in the Acts of the holy Apostles and accommodating them so as may best befit these times amongst which the chiefe is Sergius Paulus before whom Paul and Elymas enter the lists with an ayme chiefely at the ouercomming of this honourable person The issue is according to Pauls desire the setling of Sergius Paulus in the truth so that with him there was no more place now for Elymas Your Maiestie hath beene much conuersant in disputations and now at length I vvill not say being setled for it appeareth sufficiently that there hath euer been a setlednesse and resolution in your Royall brest but not thinking good to lend an eare any longer to the friuolous arguments of such as haue sought your auersion from the Truth your MAIESTIE hath prouided that they shall haue no more copÄe of disputing within your whole iurisdiction The Worke I confesse is too sleighty to bee presented before so large an vnderstanding and the Author too meane to presume to so high a patronage Epistle Dedicatory vpon the Lords Prayer But forasmuch as your Maiestie hath acknowledged it to haue beene your owne course to dedicate your royall writings to fit persons with whom each Tract might best suite my hope is that my boldnesse shall haue pardon if in following so worthy an example I haue aspired to this dedication It hath bred much sollicitude in your Maiestie as your late directions touching preachers and preaching doe testifie to consider the dayly increase of Popish superstition euen within your Maiesties Dominions And wee your faithfull subiects cannot but haue a sympathy herein for which cause wee highly applauding that direction of instructing in the Principles of Religion doe apply our selues diligently to this Catecheticall kinde of teaching if haply the mobile vulgus might thus bee faster grounded And for mine owne part according to that slender skill which GOD hath giuen mee I haue by vvriting endeauoured to further this kinde of teaching English Catechisme and to hold to the patterne of the lesser authorized Catechisme for the auoiding of confusion by an vniforme proceeding wherein I haue not beene altogether frustrated of my end neither there being many Reuerend Diuines and others amongst whom this labour of mine hath beene so accepted as that it hath long agoe come to the third impression Now if my coniecture deceiue mee not another good helpe to preserue from this infection would bee some Antidote of our tenents and grounds and of Popish tenents and practices in the worship of God without all ground set vp either by aduantage taken of the darknesse or by force there beeing none able to make resistance in seuerall times and ages of the world especially if it might bee perspicuous and plaine to any capacitie and briefe for euery ones leisure and abilitie And such is this which I here present vnto your Sacred Maiestie the which or the like vnto which I could wish that euery one who is not furnished with better would make his vade mecum That Reuerend and learned Bishop of Meath hath lately put out a Worke in answere to a Iesuite of the noueltie of Poperie in so complete a manner as that a man would thinke as it was said of the answer of our blessed Sauiour none should dare to aske that question any more If this of mine comming after it should seeme superfluous my apologie is that our Church besides the greater hath also the lesser Catechisme Babes must haue their prouision as well as those that are stronger Your Maiesties care of the good of this Church committed vnto you herein like to that of Constantine in the matter of Arâ—ianisme as it hath much reioyced my heart and the hearts of many thousands that pray for the prosperitie of Sion so it hath incouraged mee to presse into your Sacred presence with this my Goates-haire not being able to bring better Your Maiestie I know hath no need of such Tracts but many of vs that bring presents in this kinde may bee glad to learne from your Pen and to receiue knowledge from your lips yea 1 King 10. â— blessed are they that stand alwayes in thy presence to heare thy wisedome Yet vouchsafe I beseech your Maiestie to suffer it to passe vnder the protection of your countenance to your people and I doubt not but the Protestant Religion shall hereby appeare vnto them as it is so amiable and rightly grounded and the Religion of the Church of Rome so corrupt and peruerting the grounds as that thousands which shall attentiuely and without preiudice reade it shall herein blesse God for you some that were ignorant of the differences of these religions and so standing indifferently affected being better informed some that were wauering through the seeming truth of that heresie being confirmed and some that were simply seduced and gone from vs being againe to the truth reduced to the great glory of God and to the fulfilling of the number of most loyall and faithfull subiects in whom the heart of your Maiesty may most safely trust The Father of lights who hath so enlightned your knowledge the Son that life who hath so viuified your heart and the Spirit that sire who hath so inflamed your zeale for the truth increase confirme and prosper this your knowledge life and zeale to the benefiting of many soules and to the ioyfull giuing vp of your Maiesties Accounts at the great day of reckoning Amen praieth he who is Your Maiesties most humbly deuoted subiect and seruant IOHN MAYER To all that conscionably inquire after the Truth that they may be saued both of the reformed Religion and of the Romane Catholike COurteous Reader thou mayest haply blame mee for my ouer-diligence in writing-so much and now vpon a subiect so throughly canuased already in diuers bookes of learned Authors But know that I haue beene drawne to doe this by the sollicitation of others being lâ—th of my selfe to interrupt my course in another tract
set forth the Articles of our faith Gods holy will and commandements and the doctrine of Prayer and worshipping God which is all necessarie to be knowne vnto saluation so that herein a Christian of ordinarie vnderstanding needeth not to depend vpon the sense of others but immediately vpon the Word of God In places more obscure the best Doctors of the Church haue alwayes differed and therefore euen herein Christian people are not tyed to the sense of any but to that which is most agreeable to the truth plainely set forth in some other place Serg. Paul If all haue iudgement in the sense of Gods Word then it seemeth that none are to bee debarred from reading the Scriptures for feare of falling into errour by so doing whereas it is plaine that ignorant persons are peruerted sometimes by the scriptures themselues 2. Pet. 3.16 For there are many places hard to be vnderstood which the ignorant and vnstable peruert to their owne damnation Saul Nothing can be more against the minde of Christ then to debarre the people from reading and hearing the Scriptures read in a knowne tongue For hee hath bidden Search the Scriptures for therein yee looke to finde eternall life Ioh 5.39 The danger that some fall into hereby is otherwise to bee prouided against viz. by diligent preaching and opening the sense Serg. Paul But is not the Church all in all to Christian people Haue they not the Scriptures from the Church and do they not by the Church come to know that they are the Word of God and therefore howsoeuer the Church shall order the reading and setting forth of the Scriptures is it not to be held to be done very well Saul It is not to bee denied but that as the Woman of Samaria brought the people there to the knowledge of Christ so we are brought by the Church at the first to know the Scriptures to be the Word of God but as the same people said vnto her after that Christ had taught them Ioh 4.42 now we beleeue not because of thy words but because we haue heard him our selues So Christian people receiuing the Word into their hearts doe not beleeue any more because of the Church but because the Word it selfe working vpon their consciences perswadeth them that it is the Word of God And as it gaue the being at the first vnto the Church so the Church is to bee ordered thereby as by the superiour and not to order it as an inferiour Serg. Paul What is the fourteenth particular point Saul The fourteenth point is that Christ onely is the supreme head and foundation of his Church neither hath any one man nor ought to haue superioritie ouer all others in spirituall matters in all Countries and Nations being as it were a common Rocke whereupon all may stay themselues nothing doubting but that cleaning to him they cleaue to Christ 1 Cor. 3 9. and are free from errour For none can lay any other foundation sauing that which is laid Iesus Christ If vpon any other the Church be founded it is not vpon one but vpon all the Apostles alike Ephes 2.20 Gal. 2.9 and the Prophets too if vpon any as more principall they are three Iames Cephas and Iohn who seemed to be Pillars If a power spiritually to rule by opening and shutting binding and loosing be committed to any ouer all others neither is that committed to one Peter but to all the Apostles Ioh. 20 23. For whose sins ye remit saith the Lord they are remitted and whose sinnes yee retaine they are retained and if any one hath rule ouer the world as chiefe it is not Peter Gal. 2 7. but Paul For to Peter was committed the ministerie of the circumcision onely which was but of one Nation to Paul the minister of the vncircumcision which was of all the rest of the world Serg. Paul But of Peter the Lord saith singularly Math. 16.16 Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke will I build my Church and to thee I giue the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heauen And follow me and I will make thee a fisher of men And againe Peter louest thou me Ioh. 23. Feed my sheepe By all which it should seemt that howsoeuer others had power of binding and loosing too yet he was preferred as chiefe and aboue all the rest after whom such another should succeed and so another from age to age to the worlds end And this construction seemeth to bee verified by the vninterrupted succession of those Bishops who challenge to be his successors beyond all other Bishops of any other place seeing there is no such sucression else where to be found Saul If Peter had beene appointed ouer all I had beene much to blame to withstand him to his face at Antioch Gal. 2.14 and to goe on in mine office without seeking allowance and aduice from him I doe not therefore acknowledge any chiefly intimated in Peter aboue the other Apostles but that hee should be a most notable instrument of glorifying God and propagating the Gospell wherein hee should exceed the rest being fuller of the power of the Holy Ghost as he was fuller of zeale towards Christ And that last committing of the sheepe and lambs to his feeding singularly was no more then was needfull after his grosse fall by denying his Lord and Master through which hee might for euer haue beene discouraged had not his commission beene againe renued It pleased our good God for his owne glory to deale alike with him and with me both grieuous sinners and blasphemers that where sinne had most abounded zeale and grace might most abound and whereas wee were most darkned through scandall that might hence arise making vs vnfit to be lights of the world to make vs shine by miracles aboue all others that thus no scandall to hinder the Gospell might any more appeare And as for the succession so much gloried in it is no true succession of Apostolicall men but of politicall Princes maintained by the sword and not by the word euen as the successors of Mahomet haue done Of Apostlolike men there hath beene a more true succession at Constantinople Alexandria and Antioch Serg. Paul But if there be no supreame power vpon earth how shall vnity be maintained in the Church seeing diners men will be of diners minds and in case of difference about matter of faith who shall be Iudge to end it if no one man how shall it come to an end or hath the Lord left his Church in such a miserable case as that she must needs broile in contentions without end Saul There was no supreame in the Primitiue Church and yet they are said to haue beens all together with one mind Act. 2.46 the Spirit which is the Author of vnity shall keepe the true Church in vnity though there be no visible head ouer all And as for differences that arise wee haue an exemplary direction to meet in Councell Acts
are admitted to their offices they should vow chastity Yea it was a thing so generally receiued euen from the Apostles times as that till of late yeares all were single without contradiction Paul That is a notorious lye For in the first Councell after the Apostles times which was held at Ancyra in Galatia Anno 308 it was ordained that Deacons pâ—ofessing at the time of their ordination that they had not the gift of continency might afterwards marry And in the Councell of Nice Anno 330 the mariage of such as were in holy orders comming in question againe Socrat. Lib. 1.6 11. Paphnutim Bishop of a towne in Thebaids being himselfe single so perswaded to leaue euery man to his owne liberty that nothing was then concluded against these mariages And in the 2 Councell of Tolledo it was ordained Con. Toll Con. 1. as in the Ancyran Councell before Now I pitcht vpon later times because then the debating of the question is set forth and vpon what grounds your Church proceeded which is omitted in Councels foregoing But I am glad that you can goe no higher in this point then the second Carthag Councell wherein neither were their mariages condemned but continency commended so that we haue two Councels before you that left mariage free to all men that could not containe Serg. Paul You haue said enough touching this matter and it is most likely that the Dewill spake in the Councell of Canter â—ury on Dunstans side against Prusts mariages because as I remember you shewed me before that to forbid mariage is the doctrine of Denils Proceed therefore to some other point Paul The reall presence so much stood vpon shall bee the next This was neuer determined nor the word transubstantiation heard of till the Councell of Lâ—â—eran vnder Pope Innocent the third Anno 1215 and the Councell held at Rome vnder Leo the ninth Anno 1050 against Berengarius who seeing that such an opinion began to take place impugned it and was therefore condemned and in another Councell vnder Pope Nicholas the second brought to recant but hee afterwards wrote againe to iustifie the same truth and to shew his repentance for his recantation Elym Herein you doe notoriously abuse the world It is true indeed that before Berengarius his opposition because no man withstood the doctrine of transubstantiation it was not in a Councell determined But doth it follow therefore that it was not before this time maintained Haue not all the Fathers that liued before from time to time as they had occasion to treat of the Masse taught with one consent a secret conuersion by the Priests consecration Ambr. vseth the very word conuersion mutation Lib. 4. de sacram v. 4. Hom. 5. de Pascale Euseb Emissenus sayth that the Priest by a secret power doth turne the visible creatures into the substance of Christs body blood what should I here reckon vp more Bellarmine hath numbred 32 Fathers speaking to the same effect Paul Although the Fathers doe vse the words conuersion mutation and making yet it is true that I sayd before they neuer taught transubstantiation yea after that Leo the ninth and his Councell had condemned Berengarius Peter Lombard one of your Schoole-men that liued Anno 1145 Lombard Sent. 1.4 dist 11. scanning vpon this conuersion saith If it be enquired what manner of conuersion it is whether formall or substantiall or of any other kind I am not able to define And after the determination of the Lateran Councell diuers others of your learnedest Schoolc-men haueing enuously acknowledged that the faith of the transubstantiation is founded only vpon the determination of the Church as Scot. in 4. Dist â—1 〈◊〉 3 art 1. and Biâ—llect 41. in Caâ— Misse Petrâ—â— de Aâ—aco in 4 Sem. qu. 5. art 2. Conc. 2. with diuers others To those sayings of the Fathers I answer that they meant not any alteration of the substance of the bread wine but that it still remaining they became in a wonderfull manner Christs very body and blood to the faithfull receiuer For thus Ambrose expresseth himselfe Amb. de sâ—â—ram 1.4 c. 4 â—ial 2. Gel in Eutych saying They are the things which they were and are changed into another thing And Theodoret saith These mysticall signes doe not gâ—â— from their nature after their sanctification And Gelasius against Eutychcs saith The signes remaine in the propriety of their nature And Drâ—thmarus that liued about An. 800 writing vpon these words ' Doe this in remembrance of mee Drutb in â—iet 26. saith the Lord turning the bread spiritually into his body the wine into his blood hath commanded vs to do the same that hereby we might remember what he hath done for vs. Augustine saith The Lord doubted not to say This is my body August Cont. Adim c. 12. when he game a signe of his body I could also reckon vp many more who haue taught that the very bread in the Sacrament is Christs body and not some other substance vndâ—r the appearance of bread as Iren. Iust in Martyr Cyprian Chrysostome Origen Nazianzen c. Elym These are your shists for though you bee vrged with places and sayings most plaine you will still haue some euasion or other Is it likely that if transubstantiation though not in word yet in effect had not beene generally receiued before Leo or the Latoran Councell that all the world without any opposition but onely of one Berengarius would haue at once yeelded vnto it Paul I wonder that you can without blushing speake of such a generall consent of all when as the whole Greeke Church withstood it tooth and nayle for howsoener they agreed vnto the Church of Rome in other things yet in this point such as were present of them at the Councell of Flerence vnder Eugenius the 4 Anno 1439 could neuer bee brought to consent yet because Eugenius was desirous of a consent for the credit of his Sea hauing drawne them to subscribe to his supremacy the proceeding of the Holy Ghost the vse of vnleauened bread in the sacrament and to Purgatory he caused a Bull to be published called Bulla consensus notwithstanding their constant opposition in the point of transubstantiation but euen in other things wherein they yeelded such distast was taken at them by the rest of the Greeke Churches at their returne home that they were publikely execrated therefore and prohibited Christian buriall And for others that opinion of the Spirits guiding the Church in the truth did so preuaile with them as that they yeelded to transubstantiation because it was in the Lateran Councell determined as appeareth by the confession of the Schoolemen before cited Scot. in 4 dist 11 qu. 3. art 1. the first of whom Scotus sayth If it be enquired why the Church hath chosen this so hard an vnderstanding of this article about transubstantiation when as the words of the Scripture might be expounded safely according to a more easie and
true sense in appearance I answer that the Catholike Church hath expounded the Scripture by the same Spirit of truth whereby it was at the first deliucred Elym All this will not elude the antiquity of this doctrine For if transubstantiation were not alwayes held why was the Masse called a sacrifice the table an altar the Minister a Priest why hath it alwayes beene shewed to the people to be worshipped and offered in one kind to the people and carryed about with that reuerence and the remainder of it kept for the same purpose in a Pixe to be ready vpon all occasions Paul Wee doe acknowledge that very anciently these names of sacrifice Altar and Priest were vsurped but not in your sense The table of the Lord was called an altar because the offerings of Christian people comming to the holy Communion which were brought for the reliefe of the poore were layd vpon it according to Ireuaus who sayth Lib. 2. Cap. 32. that Christ by taking bread and wine taught the Disciples a new oblation of the new Testament the first fruits of his creatures In those Cannons which are sayd to be the Apostles Can. 4. it is orâ—â—yned that nothing should be offered vpon the alter but eares of corne and frankinscense and in the 3 Councell of Carthage Can. 24. that nothing should bee offered but fruits of come and grapes And hence partly came the name sacrifice for almes are a sacrifice to God and partly because of the representation of Christs sacrifice made hereby seeing it is vsuall to call the thing representing by the name of the thing represented Lomb 1.4 dist 12. And so Peter Lombâ—rd sayth that it is not properly called a sacrifice but because it is a memoriall and representation of the true sacrifice of Christ vpon the crosse And lastly for the sacrifice of praise and thankesgiuing then offered vnto God That Christians had not altars properly so called is most plaine from Arnobins Arnob. lib. 6. contra gant Orig. lib. 8. cent Cals who sayth that the Gentiles accused the Christians because they had no altars and from Origen who acknowledgeth that Christians had neither altars nor images And therefore as it is called an altar so sometime it is also called a table See August cont lit Petil. l. 2. c. 47. Touching adoration it was not vsed till Honorius the third Anno 1220 fiue yeares after the Councell of Laterans Touching the administration in one kinde that was neues vsed Def. lib. de offic py viri till 1000 yeares after Christ as Cassauder sheweth and it was first decreed in the Councell of Constance vnder Pope Iobu the 23 Anno 1414 Touching the reseruation of the remainder there was a long time no such vse for they burnt it in the fire Hesych lib. 2. in Leuit â— 8. as Hesych testifieth and if sometime it was reserued it was by priuate persons who caryed it home with them but was not so generally approued and after more consideration in Councells condemned as in the Councell called Caesar Augustau Cap. 3. If any bee preued not to haue conformed the Eucharist receiued in the Church let him be anathema And in the first Tolletan Councell Cap. 14. If they shall remaine â—ill the morrow let them not be any longer reserued but by the diligence of the Clerciks consumed The name of your Masse is very ancient but then the Masse or missa was a dismissing of the Catecumeni when others remained to receiue and thus it continued to Anno 600 according to I sidor lib. 6. Orig. c. 19. The Masse therefore in your Church now is new and so are all your vsages of it and iustly by Christians to be exploded Serg. Paul I thinke this point hath beene so seanned that there needs no more to be sayd for mine owne part you hour giuen we such light into these things as I neuer had before for the ancient name of the Masse and Sacrifice and Altar c. made still some scruple in my minde that transubstantiation was a most ancient tenent of the Church But seeing I am now fully satisfied proceed to some other point Paul The next new thing is the Latine tongue wherein the Masse is offered and prayers are made and the Scriptures are kept This was not but where Latine was vnderstood till the dayes of Vitalian Pope An. 666 Osâ—â—d Cont. 7. in vvhose time Latine was first vsed in Constantinople Neither doth your Nauclerus much differ For hee assigneth it to the time of Pope Agatho Anno 675. In the other Countreys which vnderstood Latine as in France Britaine and in Africa it was vsed more anciently for the Latine tongue was familiar to them for the space of 700 yeares and vpwards as appeareth in one passage of the third Councell of Tours Cap. 17. Anno 770 wherein it is appointed that Homilies should bee turned into a rusticke Latine tongue or Theotiske that they might the better be vnderstood So that if the seruice vvas more anciently performed in the Latine tongue it vvas because they commonly vnderstood it best but since it not being vnderstood it is an absurd noueltie to vse it Elym It is necessarie that seeing Christs Church is one the seruice should be vniforme and for the Scriptures great reason to keepe them in an vnknowne tongue to preuent error Paul It is necessarie indeed as conducing to establish the Latine Monarchy but it were more necessary for edification to haue all in a knowne tongue as anciently it was wont to be as may be gathered from Chrysostom who saith Hom. 18. in 2. Cor. that common prayers are made both by the Priest and the people and Isidor When Psalmes are sung they ought to be sung of all De Ecst. off ib. 1. cap. 10. when Prayer is made let it be made by all and when there is reading let silence be made that all may heare And for your pretended feare of heresie that may be an excuse but seeing anciently all had the Bible in their owne languages it cannot but passe for a nouclty Serg. Paul Be there any more points the antiquitis whereof you can disprous as you haue done these Paul Yes the doctrine of Purgatory and praying for the dead came in also long after the Apostles The first that make mention of Purgatory are Tertullian and Origen whose authoritie is not so great because the one was a Montamst Hereticke and the other was condemned for many errours In Augustines time which was 400 yeares after Christ it was spoken of but doubtfully Tnchit c. 67.69 Whether there shall bee such a thing or no it may be enquired and either be found out or be kept secret from some faithfull persons In Esa l. 28. c. 〈◊〉 saith Augustine And Ierome saith that these things are to be left to the iudgement and knowledge of God Grog in Iob 13. c. 20. And Gregory the first Bishop of Rome who was after