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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	church_n	ground_n	infallible_a	1,901	5	9.8298	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91879	The falsehood of Mr. VVilliam Pryn's Truth triumphing, in the antiquity of popish princes and Parliaments. To which, he attributes a sole, sovereigne, legislative, coercive power in all matters of religion; discovered to be full of absurdities, contradictions, sacriledge, and to make more in favour of Rome and Antichrist, than all the bookes and pamphlets which were ever published, whether by papall or episcopall prelates, or parisites, since the reformation. With twelve queries, eight whereof visit Mr. Pryn the second time, because they could not be satisfied at the first.	Robinson, Henry, 1605?-1664?	1645 (1645)	Wing R1672; Thomason E273_16; Thomason E282_11; ESTC R200048	28,156	36

23. 8. Their owne reason must guide them Their owne understanding must bee the ultimate resolver of their wills and none but their owne faith can save them 2 Cor. 13. 5. Gal. 6. 4. 5. Rom. 14. 12. From the non-submitting unto some Councells Synods and Parliaments which you perhaps may not thinke erronious will follow no other worse consequence than this That a man may likewise refuse to heare or not believe some Sermons which you perhaps may hold worth hearing and necessary to be beleeved though others as wise and godly as your selfe doe thinke the contrary which you may well be so indulgent as to grant your Independent Brethren since they will doe the like for you expecting with long-suffering untill you be convinc'd or you convince them peaceably Page 154. You proceed and say admit Synods Councells Parliaments have sometimes erred out of human frailty yet this is a most certaine truth that they are not so apt to erre as private men or Conventicles of persons lesse learned lesse experienc'd c. But this may not passe for orthodox neither if not many wise not many learned are called be Scripture 1 Cor. 1. 20. 26. besides experience teaches us that God doth not discover his truth by whole-sale nor to whole Nationall Churches or Generall Councells at once but rather by degrees and that for the most part at first to some contemptible person perhaps in the eyes of the world who had no earthly superfluities or so much as any naturall preheminence to tempt or to withdraw him from being Gods Ambassadour or Trumpeter to publish it unto a people or whole Nation it may be not without his utmost perill And besides doe we not finde that even these more learned of whom the Councells and Synods are pretended to be compacted are they who most of all deceive Are they not by their unsanctified human learning and wisdome the better enabled nay doe they not by that meanes become like so many decoy's to lead the multitude the rabble after them over hedge and ditch and too too often into the very ditch it selfe But what if Synods Councells and Parliaments were lesse apt to erre and best qualified to discover Truth and debate matters of controversie It will not follow from thence that either of them may therefore impose their supposed Truthes for other than suppose they cannot be for want of infallibility or finall determinations upon the other If there were a necessity that the greater part should have this spirituall dominion or rather a Civill power in a spirituall government over the lesser or the lesser over the greater then there might be some colour for the greater to have precedencie in some respects But since either of them would be absolutely sinfull we must grant it unto neither Page 155. You say That though it cannot be proved that all the Elders Brethren and whole Church of Jerusalem were infallibly inspired yet they all said it seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and them To which I answer that their saying so was an infallible signe that all of them were then as concerning what they affirmed infallibly inspired otherwise not only the Brethren with the rest of the Church but the Apostles also might possibly have told a lie in saying so in joyning with them in one common verdict Act. 15. v. 23. Nay it might even now and ever may be said hereafter to the end of the world that this passage in the Acts of the Apostles It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and us is not of infallible truth unlesse that both the Apostles Brethren and whole Church had beene infallibly assisted in saying so They spake not One for All but All of them in One or One Spirit even God himselfe who is One in All of them infallible Say but as much and upon as good grounds and reason in behalfe of the Synod which sits now at Westminster and you say something but for your great promise under the Gospell that God will powre out his Spirit upon all flesh surely it makes as much for Independents unlesse you suppose them to be some New-found Land-fish But you yeeld it may be objected how perhaps all or the greatest part of the Parliament and Assembly are not endued with the sanctifying Spirit of God therefore they cannot use this language It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and us This objecting of yours I confesse is somewhat ingenious but alas it seemes you desire not to continue so in that you take such paines in shruging and shifting to evade the force and truth thereof by saying 'T is only knowne to God who are his and admit there may be some few among them who have not Gods sanctifying Spirit yet I doubt not but very many if not the major part of them have Is not this profoundly answered Thousands of conscientious godly people object how it is possible that all or the greatest part of the Parliament and Assembly may not be indued with the sanctifying Spirit of God and Mr. Pryn pretends to answer them by saying he doubts not but they have Is he not a doughty champion But what if it should be objected that it may yet more fully than by perchance be said it cannot be made appeare that there is so much as one neither in the Parliament nor Assembly who have had an infallible assistance of the sanctifying Spirit in any thing they have done already or shall ever doe hereafter and must we then necessarily be of their Religion of their faith implicitly yet we submit you see unto them in Civill matters our estates our lives and what ever we have that is mortall has beene devoted if not sacrificed to justifie their power and our subjection but the rest must be reserved for him only who is Lord Paramont of spirits as well as flesh Surely Mr. Pryn 't is no small disservice which you doe both Parliament and Assembly in thus exposing their proceedings to be questioned by no little and that the most conscionable and best affected party of the Kingdome such spirits of contention as this of yours were those which made the first great breach amongst the Parliaments friends I meane betwixt the Independents and Presbyterians and now your selfe as the chiefe Ring-leader has begun a subdivision even among the Presbyterians by attributing after such an imperious and reproaching manner towards all such as dissent from your opinion that supreme legislative power to Civill Magistrates in all matters of Religion which our Brethren of Scotland appropriate only to Nationall Assemblies How great a stumbling-blocke this may grow to in time and the miserable consequences thereof I leave to your saddest morning thoughts to be better considered on and wish you would forbear to publish such midnight subitane distracted lucubrations as you your selfe well call them to the great detriment and endangering both of Church and Common-wealth Twelve Queries Eight whereof presume to make a second visit to Mr. Pryn importuning his resolution in

of Scotland Discipl pag. 89. THe Nationall Assemblies ought alwayes to be received in their owne liberty and have their owne place And all men as well Magistrates as inferiours to be subject to the judgement of the same in Ecclesiasticall causes without any reclamation or appellation to any judge Civill or Ecclesiasticall within the Realme Doctor Adam Stuart's second part of his Duply to the two Brethren p. 30. The Civill Magistrate is subject in a spirituall way unto the Church He must learne Gods will by the Ministers of the Church who are Gods Ambassadours sent to him He must be subject to Ecclesiasticall censures Mr. William Pryn in the Title page termes his Truth triumphing over Falshood A just and seasonable vindication of the undoubted Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction Right Legislative Coercive power of Christian Emperours Kings Magistrates Parliaments in all matters of Religion Church-government Discipline Ceremonies Manners Authour of the Pamphlet entituled The readinesse of the Scots advance into England 6. of November 1643. The Generall Assembly is subordinate to no Civill judicature whatsoever c. Apollonius Considerat Quarund Controvers c. p. 108. Particular Churches as well as Generall Assemblies have their authority immediately from God Mr. Thomas Edwards sayes in his Antapologia p. 163. Junius Zanchius Amesius c. make the subject matter of politicall adminstration to be res humanae humane things and matters but of Ecclesiasticall divine and sacred Page 166. Is it that you doe give a power to the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall things of the ultimate determination of matters purely Ecclesiasticall which the Presbyterians principles doe not as in matters of doctrine scandall c. And page 168. Spirituall remedies and meanes must be used in the Kingdome of Christ and by them Christ doth his worke And hence in Ecclesiasticall Discipline and those scandalls in the Church which are the point in hand punishments in the body or in the purse which can be by the power of the Magistrate have no place Divines of the Church of Scotland in a booke called A Dispute against the English Popish Ceremonies obtruded upon the Church of Scotland p. 150. It followeth that Christ hath committed the power of judging defining and making lawes about those matters viz. which concern the worship of God not to Magistrates but to the Ministers of the Church Calvin Institut l. 4. c. 11. sect 16. Since the Church hath of its owne any power of compelling neither may require it I speake of Civill coercive power it is the duty of pious Kings and Princes to uphold Religion by their lawes edicts and judgements Junius Controvers 3. l. 3. c. 26. sect 12. Whereas some things are matters of conscience and belong to the judicatory of Heaven that I may speake according to the Canonists others humane and temporall appertaining to an earthly judicatorie in sacred divine and Church affaires the judgement is never lawfully committed unto the Civill Magistrate no not to the Emperour himselfe because holy things are of another Kingdome and cognizance Six Impossibilities which doe necessarily accompany persecution for cause of Conscience 1 IT is impossible that the Gospell should come to be preached unto all Nations if men may be questioned for matters of conscience 2 It is impossible that such as know but in part should grow in knowledge or from one measure and degree of faith unto another 3 It is impossible that in a rationall way there should be a firme secure peace throughout the world nay not in a Province City or Towne so long as men make a point of conscience to compell one another to their opinions 4 It is impossible to prescribe such a way for suppressing new or different opinions whatsoever which to any State or Church may seeme hereticall but there will still be left a gap a possibility of fighting against God even when such State or Church thinke they fight for him most of all 5 It is impossible that either the weake beleevers mis-beleevers or unbeleevers can be won by our godly conversation as is required 1 Pet. 2. 12. and 3. 1. 2. 1 Cor. 7. 12. 16. so long as we will not suffer them to live amongst us 6 It is impossible for a man to hold fast the truth or be fully perswaded in his owne heart of what he does of what Religion he makes choice of unlesse after he hath searched the Scriptures and try'de the spirits whether they be of God or no it be lawfull for him to reject that which shall appeare to him as evill and adhere to that which seems good in his owne judgement and apprehension The Falshood of Mr. William Prynn's Truth Triumphing briefly discovered Sir YOur Title sayes Truth triumphing over Falshood Antiquity over Novelty you meane I suppose Antick Truth over Novel Falshood And the truth is whoever considers your ensuing Discourse will finde it to bee Antick Truth very Antick such as to the Reformed World of Christians would well neere have quite been antiquated and totally become ridiculous had not such unskilfull Antiquaries as William Prynne of Lincolns Inn Esquire taken so much unnecessary and thankles paines in gathering them up from Dunghills and by whole Volumnes and Impressions to delude and cozen the unstable people of his party the truth whereof that himselfe and all others into whose hands this paper happens may suddenly perceive besides the severall absurdities and contradictions let them only take notice that both the Truth and Antiquity hee so much speakes and boasts of are deduced only from the abominable presidents of superstitious Popery some whereof I shall particularly and yet briefly mention as I finde them confusedly pestred amongst themselves in the undigested rapsody of his more vaine Discourse But before I leave the specious Title thereof I desire all Readers may observe how amongst others you terme it a Vindication of the undoubted Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction Legislative of Christian Emperours by Scripture texts as if amongst your Antick readings you had discovered some New-found-Land wherein you would make your over credulous Disciples thinke there had lived Christian Emperours before or at the writing of the Scriptures who verified your Antick Doctrine and Assertions This Grand taske like a very Atlas you pretend to take upon you in Refutation of Mr. John Goodwin without so much as disturbing any of his arguments or of the Answers to your twelve Questions which both your Epistle and the latter part of your Booke take notice of but because you cannot make a satisfactory Reply and yet are not so ingenuous as to acknowledge it and yeeld to Truth you traduce as malicious and full of virulencie against Presbytery and the Scots page 125. and worse then the Popish Gunpowder plot Epist Dedic Are not these powerfull Arguments able to confute the very Apostles had they but been alledged in their dayes by such an irreconcileable and implacable spirit as is Mr. Prynn's witnesse besides others his proceedings against Colonell Fines Surely your friends will

thinke you have better in your budget or be ashamed of you when they have leisure but to consider of it 'T is true you complaine that Mr. Rutherfords due Rights of Presbytery Mr. Thomas Edwards his Anti-Apologia and Gulielmus Apollonius with the Vallacrean Ministers were never answered 'T is likely the Independents doe not desire to make no nor bee thought to have any difference with their Scotch Brethren if possibly to be avoided and you know the Proverb sayes The second blow makes the fray And though you would not take notice of a compleatly fit and full answer to Mr. Edwards and so much the more because 't was made by a milde meeke spirited servant of God quite contrary to that of Mr. Edwards his I hope Mr. Pryn will no longer say Mr. Edwards is not answered now that Mr. Chidley hath so clearly and fairly foyld him the second time And that you may see Apollonius speakes no better Latine for Presbytery than you doe English please but to cast your eye upon cap. 3. p. 44 45. in answer to the Assemblies letters to the Churches of Zealand where he sayes in substance That the body of Beleevers in generall have not a power of governing and judging Ecclesiasticall matters by any spirituall jurisdiction but that the Presbyters themselves have received this power of ruling immediately from Christ the King of the Church which what ever he alleadge to prove it with these grosse absurdities besides how many others will plainely follow 1. That all Church Officers have either intruded themselves into their offices or else they must have beene thrust in by some supernaturall meanes of the latter there is no evidence of the former there is no allowance 2. If the Beleevers the Brethren did not choose the Officers so neither might they turne them out 3. Then in such case it would bee in the Officers power to tyrannize even to the highest extent their owne lust should lead them to without any just authority on earth to question or restraine them for if their Presbytery their officiating their governing ruling be by divine Right and not the peoples free choice however they behave themselves in it they cannot be turned out by the people But how doth it appeare that they have their Office or Eldership immediately from God Is it sufficient for them to say so Then may any other number of their Brethren pretend the like He alleadges 2. Cor. 5. 20. Now then we are Ambassadours for Christ as though God did beseech you by us We pray you in Christs stead be yee reconciled to God But may not so many Tinkers use the very same Text and saying they are Christs Ambassadours thrust themselves over any Congregation in the world if this be faire dealing If there goes no more thereunto but confidence and laying claime hee that can justle hardest will doubtlesse get it though Simon Magus could not carry it with money But what kinde of Ambassadours did Paul make himselfe and those Primitive Christians to be What power did they take upon them And how farre They were Christs Ambassadours we know them by their entreating mildnesse gentlenesse and long-suffering as in the same 2 Cor. 5. 20. with Rom. 15. 1. Gal. 6. 1. 2. 1. Pet. 5. 2. 2 Tim. 4. 2. Eph. 4. 2. But the Prelaticall Presbytery the pretended Ambassadours of Christ in these times wee know to be Wolves that worry sterve or flea the very Lambes of Christ alive and as if their cruelty were not satisfied with the destruction of their bodies endeavour what they can to put a yoake of bondage upon the very soules of their Brethren Act. 20. from v. 28. to 31. Matth. 20. 25 26. 3 Joh. 9. The other place produced is 1 Cor. 4. 1. Let a man so account of us as of the Ministers of Christ and Stewards of the mysteries of God but the Presbyters which wee speake of instead of taking upon them a Ministery lay claime unto a Jurisdiction Dominion a Prelaty Instead of being Stewards they command require expecting lordly obedience and submission They scorne to use entreating and beseeching as Paul the aged 2 Cor. 10. 1. 3. stet pro ratione voluntas is their motto their symboll Thus we may see the Texts produced to maintaine the Presbyteriall government to be of Divine Right make eminently against it neither is it more evident in Scripture than from reason and experience to wit That what power the Presbyters have and exercise they have it from man and not immediately from God since the Brethren doe either explicitly or implicitly make choice of them and might as well have chosen any other if they had pleased Church Officers are no more immediately from God than Civill Officers The truth is Apollonius acknowledges the Presbyterie to bee the Representative Church but denies the meanes without which I never yet knew it pretended so much as possible to bee constituted First he sayes Multitudo fidelium in Ecclesia potestatem regendi jurisdictione spirituali negotia Ecclesiastica dijudicandi non habet jure Dei proinde eam senioribus Presbyteris delegare non potest Hoc sensu igitur Representativam Ecclesiam non agnoscimus Nec talem agnoscimus Ecclesiam Representativam quae à multitudine fidelium missa absolutam potestatem per leges jurisdictiones actus suos obligandi multitudinem ejus fidem conscientias subjiciendi ita ut absque examine ut laudatum susciperet quicquid ab hac Ecclesia statutum foret At Ecclesiam Representativam hanc ex sacris literis agnoscimus quae est caetus Presbyterorum à multitudine Ecclesiae electus qui authoritate jurisdictione Ecclesiasticâ à Christo accepta Ecclesiae praeest invigilat decretis secundum sacram Scripturam factis jurisdictione spirituali eam regit which in effect is thus First That Beleevers in generall have no power to judge concerning Church affaires therefore they cannot give or derive unto the Presbyters what they themselves never had and secondly that the Lawes of Country are not sufficient to authorise Beleevers for choosing Church Commissioners who may afterwards oblige them and their consciences by whatsoever decrees shall be by them agreed upon without examining it themselves But sayes he a Representative Church is an Assembly of Presbyters chosen by the multitude who having received Ecclesiasticall authority and jurisdiction from Christ doe watch over the Church and governe it according to the Scripture To him therefore or Mr. Pryn that quotes him I should desire to make these following Queries The truth is Apollonius acknowledges the Presbyterie to bee the Representative Church but denies the meanes without which I never yet knew it pretended so much as possible to bee constituted First he sayes Multitudo fidelium in Ecclesia potestatem regendi jurisdictione spirituali negotia Ecclesiastica dijudicandi non habet jure Dei proinde eam senioribus Presbyteris delegare non potest Hoc sensu igitur

right of Christian Princes for calling such Assemblies can any wayes make legall the present sitting of the Divines at Westminster or how he can make atonement for himselfe to give occasion that both their assembling and whole proceedings may thus be called in question But p. 88. you bring in a Parenthesis which doubtlesse the Assembly will thinke had far better beene left out that the assent of the Clergy is only by way of assistance and advice not simply necessary to the Parliaments determining what is heresie however for my part I do not much dissent with you therein and if the Assembly did like as well thereof should thinke it might somewhat qualifie their over forward and eager appetites which else might too likely lead them to declare those wayes hereticall after which Paul was not ashamed to say hee worshipped the God of his Fathers Act. 24. 14. But may not both Kings and Parliaments reprove you like an unlucky Cow who having given great quantity of milke kicks it downe with her foot for contradicting your selfe and plundring them so speedily of all Ecclesiasticall power which before in a good mood you cast upon them so liberally without allowance saying p. 141. That there is the selfe same reason and equity for severall combined Churches in a Councell Synod Presbytery to have a coercive power over every particular Congregation in their limits as for any particular Congregation to claime or exercise a jurisdiction in point of direction or correction over any or every particular member of it This assertion I conceive is yet more prodigious than all your Popish presidents with which you ever were acquainted and I beleeve that never any body hereafter will so much as acknowledge you in this opinion Whereas the Title of your Booke and whole Discourse in generall ascribe all power and authority unto the Civill Magistrate both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall matters This passage gives the same unto a Synod even a Coercive that is all Power and Authority and that both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall matters provided they doe but colour and call them Ecclesiasticall for nothing of Coercive can be otherwise than Civill properly If you excuse your selfe by saying you meant a Synod ratified by Authority of Parliament I answer that you must meane a Synod so ratified by Authority of Parliament as some Presbyterians of Scotland meane when they expect that Parliaments must doe it ex officio whether they bee willing or unwilling and if your meaning had been otherwise you might have brought your comparison betweene a Parliament and particular Congregations not a Synod besides that the power of direction which you acknowledge to be in every particular Congregation towards any or every member thereof I doe not finde to bee granted them or so much as medled with by Authority of Parliament so likewise if you will have it any wayes hold parallel you must meane the Synods Canons so confirmed by authority of Parliament as that the Parliaments confirmation must still wait upon and follow the Synods beck and requisition That part of the Statute 37. H. 8. c. 17. which you bring to establish the King Head of the Church sayes That by Holy Scripture All Authority and Power is wholly given to him to heare and determine All manner of causes Ecclesiasticall and to correct All vice and sinne whatsoever and such persons as his Majesty shall appoint thereunto So that whereas a negative voice which hath beene and is still the great controversie betwixt the King and Parliament in Civill matters only this Statute 37. H. 8. c. 17. with Mr. Pryns opinion and consequences thereupon doe freely grant the King in all spirituall causes and affaires Surely if all Englishmen did agree with Mr. Pryn in this particular the King might like enough be willing for the present to part from his negative voice in Civill matters in full assurance of regaining it in recompence of Pardons and Dispensations which he might grant by virtue of his Headship of the Church with the sole authority of correcting all vice and sinne and finall determining all causes Ecclesiasticall The truth is that Christian Kings and Princes have de facto done much with Civill censures in maintenance of Religion whether right or wrong established by Law But the point is what they did or might doe lawfully de jure Whence is their power derived Surely the power of Princes pretending to the name of Christian whether Papists Lutherans Calvinists Brownists or Anabaptists and even of Turkish and Pagan Princes is all alike So that whatsoever power the best Reformed Princes can justly assume unto themselves in Ecclesiasticall affaires even Popish Kings and the Great Turk may fully pretend and act as much in and about the Churches within their Territories and neither of them be more disobeyed or resisted than the other The power is given to them as Magistrates and Princes not as Christians otherwise they might be deposed at any time if they became Antichristian which is exploded for a Popish doctrine But as Artaxerxes did not make that Decree for building of the Temple out of love or conscience unto the God of Ezra Ezra 7. from v. 21. to 26. So can it not be concluded from Kings and Magistrates interposing their Civill power about matters meerly Ecclesiasticall that therefore they might and did doe it by full authority from God since by the selfe same manner of arguing it would follow that Popery were the truest Religion because most Christian Princes as they are called have established Popery But it may have beene observed how Princes and Magistrates in all ages who have had the Sword of Justice in their keeping have for the most part beene kept in an ignorant and superstitious overawfulnesse by the Clergy of those times who still for their owne private ends prevailed with them to countenance and enforce their Constitutions by coercive meanes upon the people by which device of theirs both Prince and People became so entangled and ensnared to them by degrees that if either of them afterwards sought to withdraw themselves forth from this bondage they still found such a party of the other as was able to curb and bring them againe into subjection of Holy Church as they pretended though never so Popish or otherwise corrupt And this series of corrupted and corrupting presidents with their tyrannicall dominion over mens faith and consciences which the Apostle Paul disclaimed 2 Cor. 1. 24. Mr. Pryn produces as orthodox requiring it should bee established after the manner of Medes and Persians irrevocable and made very Scripture of ascribing by this Antick rabble of quotations as great a power unto the Civill Magistrate in spirituall matters as ever any Pope of Rome assumed unto himselfe But if the Civill Magistrate must be masters of our faith determining all controversies in Church affaires why I pray was Mr. Pryn so refractory to the Bishops who then were authorised by the Civill Magistrate of the united Kingdome which now