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A65800 Religion and reason mutually corresponding and assisting each other first essay : a reply to the vindicative answer lately publisht against a letter, in which the sence of a bull and council concerning the duration of purgatory was discust / by Thomas White, Gent. White, Thomas, 1593-1676. 1660 (1660) Wing W1840; ESTC R13640 86,576 220

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see a necessary connexion with the deliver'd Faith if you say so you desert your vertue of prophesying and come over to our School which you so abominate as rational and faithless yet this experience teaches us is the way that Popes and Councils use to take If you say their consulting must not hold till they see it by reason then tell me what Oedipus or Geometrician can guess or fix the terminating line of counsell prerequisite These points a Scholar would have setled You distinguish nothing but jumble all your Bells together into a confused noise and deafen more then instruct your Hearers Now 't is to much purpose to talk of the force of the word Anathema whilest you have not settled a matter in which the Church hath a power to impose it What an inconsiderate manner of arguing is this You say Catholiks require no other assurance of their Faith then upon this firm foundation that our holy Mother the Church is their infallible directress The proposition is the very Tenet we mainly advance and stick to Go but consequently to this and we shall have no quarrell You add another ground that the Councils her mouth are the unerring deliverers of truth This also is very true and never deny'd by us But there rises a great question whether Councils be perpetually and in all cases the mouth of the Church look upon Cariolanus his abridgment of the Councils and read his division of General Councils into approbata and reprobata and ex parte approbata and ex parte improbata and see how ignorantly you go to work even in the grounds of your own eminent learned men who will oppose you peradventure more then I and yet you preach Christian Religion is a mockery if this be taken away I desire not to look into particulars unless you force me to it For I cannot discover even your Errours without discovering too the vanity of that School which you nickname the Church and confidently take upon you to be one of her Masters I doubt not if you attentively consider your eminent Scholars you will find many of them speak indeed gloriously of Councils but unless I be strangely deceiv'd they give them less of inward and reall Authority then I while they make them in effect but Cyphers to the Pope without whom they signify nothing though added perhaps to him they increase his signification yet surely not very much since in many of those Masters opinion he alone is infallible and I think in every ones opinion all together are not much more Whereas the Doctrin I follow gives them an absolute Inerrancy in testifying receiv'd truths which is clearly sufficient to conserve and propagate the Faith of the Church I beleeve you mistake the meaning of that grave and worthy Person whom without any ground at all for your conceit you call my Scholar since he seriously protests he never gave his mind that way nor ever read over any considerable part of my Books nor particularly this of the Middle State his true meaning I conceive is we may know when Councils and Consistory's apply themselves right by examining not Tradition it self for that's evident in the sence of the Faithfull but their proceedings by Tradition whether they be conformable to it Which is not onely a maintainable but excellent truth And by this method the Divines of those dayes examin'd the Doctrin of John 22. For Tradition is the Law of Christ planted in the hearts of all Christians not to be examin'd it being to be read fair written there by their externall words and conversations Now if a Pope or Council be supposed to delver Doctrin against this 't is past darkness and examining since all the Christian world cannot choose but resent it and know it to be against their Faith and Judgment So that you plainly misunderstand the meaning of Tradition which is no hidden thing but the publick and settled belief of the Christian world You will say 't is impossible a Pope or Council should proceed so grosly I wish there were no examples of it But the truth is if instead of a Pope consider'd onely personally you take him as presiding in his Church and Seat and joyn'd with it which is a kind of more then a Provinciall Council but much more if you take a General Council without extraordinary violence without or within both mainly visible this cannot happen and so they have infallibility in attesting the received Doctrins most absolutely sufficient to secure the Church against being mis-led by them By the same Errour you look to determin Faith by Inquest not knowing it cannot be unknown in a Catholick Country to them that live there See the story of Luther Were men doubtfull of their Faith before he and his fellows in iniquity set themselves to snarl at it Therefore Inquest may be made how to answer their Argumments but not to understand what the Church held before opposition rose How much mistaken is all your discourse about the proceeding to higher Tribunals after so great diligence of scrutiny There is no such thing as scrutiny necessary to find out Faith nor ever was the Church to seek her Faith Since she once receiv'd it from Jesus Christ she never lost it and so is to look into it not for it If any thing be to be look for it is not faith it may be some Theologicall Verity not faith Your discourse therefore is wholly out of the way No wonder then you find your self at a loss and cry out like a blind man for a hand to guide you since instead of Christs faith you look for a new faith One would have it an Article of our Christian faith that his Order is a true Religious Order Another that one hang'd for treason is a true Martyr others seek some private revelation that brings in profit to be canoniz'd for faith and other such fine questions to be put in the Creeds of the Church and if it be not yeelded there 's a power in the Church to impose such beliefs upon men presently the denying Doctrin is an Exterminating School and pulls up by the roots all the foundations of Christian Religion Nor will there want some to say that though these things be true they are not to be published but Catholicks are to be left in ignorance of such tender points But will not the mischief by degrees grow intolerable if once it should come to that height that the People by a preoccupated credence be apt to be stirr'd seditiously against their naturall and lawfull Governour by any surreptitious Rescript fetch't from beyond Sea freshly seal'd with the new stamp of faith and to believe all Christianity is rain'd if such a Rescript nay the Interpretation of the procurers be any way doubted of O strange unhappy times You press farther that according to me the Church hath de facto erred in the Bull and Council so long treated of What a strange boldness is this you bring an Interpretation
RELIGION AND REASON Mutually corresponding and assisting each other FIRST ESSAY A Reply to the vindicative Answer lately publisht against a Letter in which the sence of a Bull and Council concerning the duration of Purgatory was discust By Thomas White Gent. Vinc. Lir. cap. 27. Intelligatur te exponente illustriùs quod anteà obscuriùs credebatur Per te Posteritas intellectum gratuletur quod ante Vetustas non intellectum venerabatur Eadem tamen quae didicisti ita doce ut cum dicas novè non dicas nova PARIS MMLX THE AUTHOR TO THE JUDICIOUS READER I Suppose you have perus'd the Book I here pretend to Answer And how do you like it has he done his work I dare not say demonstrated for sure he will not offer at what he thinks impossible but has he prov'd which is a modest word and he must not be offended at it has he solidly prov'd That the position he sustains is a Truth traditionarily deliver'd from the Apostles to us as a point of Catholick Faith Or secondly That It is Defin'd either in the Bull or Council if he had done this I should heartily rejoyce in his Victory though over my self But if as to the first branch he have onely prov'd it the common perswasion of later Ages and that without clearing in what quality it is held whether as Faith or Opinion even by the Moderns If instead of the Consent of Fathers he bring but One above Exception and out of that One the first and chief testimony is indifferent both to him and me and the onely difficulty of the rest objected and answer'd by my self and unreply'd to by him If of the three passages he cites out of the publick Liturgyes one onely bear any shew of difficulty the other two being either plainly neutral or grosly abus'd And if in the second branch he have onely prov'd that it was suppos'd or as their Title-page warily calls it Contain'd in the Bull and Council and not Determin'd I cannot see my case so desperate as he imagins Scripture it self oftentimes proceeding upon Suppositions conformable to the fore-entertain'd apprehensions of those it speaks to without engaging that every such supposition is a reveal'd Truth But on the other side if I have plentifully alledg'd both Scriptures and Fathers and Liturgyes and Reasons too of which me thinks a little does well even among Divines and to none of these has he given the least satisfactory answer I cannot see but my case is hopefull and when you have read this little Treatise I cannot doubt but you will see it so too But all this engages onely a particular Controversy the next is of a far more high and universal importance of a far different strain from other single and ordinary Questions For in this we agree that what the Church sayes is the truth we agree in the words wherein the Church delivers us that truth our onely dispute is about the sence of those words or rather what ought to be the means to come to the knowledge of that sence We find by dayly experience the same Creed recited in the mouths of children of men and of the learned We cannot doubt but the apprehensions of children and men are different and that our young thoughts are to be corrected by Age but whether the Learned and the Prudential make the same apprehensions is the great Controversy between us My Antagonist seeing the largest part of the Church consist of this degree of Prudential men perswades himself that not only their Belief but their very apprehensions are uncontrollable and unamendable I conceive God has given that priviledg to Learning to make us understand the truth of our Faith better then by vulgar and popular conceptions On my side stand the endeavours of the whole Schools whose direct Profession it is to explicate and declare the true sence of Scripture and the words in which Faith is left us On his side stands the multitude of the common People whose fancyes are not elevated nor their judgments improv'd by Study this Multitude he loudly calls the Church All Christianity and such brave names but be not astonisht at his great words for he distinguishes not between the Church and the weaker part of it which he follows nor offended at me that I observe not a grave and regular Progresse where I am set to catch a bird that hops up and down from twig to twig chirps upon this a little and then flyes immediately to another but rather pity the condition of an old clumsy man too slow and heavy for so wild a Chace Wherein yet by the help of God I am resolv'd to follow him as fast as I can As the whole Book in a manner is made up of little else but boutades and flashes so you are onely to expect from me short hints of what might be said more dilatedly which I hope may suffice to counterblast those sudden gusts If any other as is threatend come out with stronger Ordnance I shall endeavour to oppose stronger Bulwarks I hope he will write hereafter more closely and with less distemper especially since now as I understand he intends to read my Books I would he had done so before he had written against them for then I might have hop'd a few hours would have suffic'd to make my Answer which now has cost me all my spare time of a whole fortnight Tho. White INDEX A EVery Act even a sinfull one has some perfection as to what 's positive in it pag. 132. That Affections got here are not distinct from the Soul no singular Opinion p. 131 132. Antiquity not favouring ante-judiciary Delivery shown from the miscarriage of his best Testimonies thence p. 105 106 107. Arraignment of the Author feebly attempted p. 90 91 92. C. CEnsuring of Doctrins and who may lawfully do it p. 6 7 8. Controversy in what manner to be handled p. 5 6. Corporeall Affections remain after separation p. 137 138 141 142 143. Best Corporeall pleasures most conducive to Beatitude from p. 133. to p. 137. The Council of Florence examin'd p. 49. It and the Bull wrongly descanted on by his eminently learned Divine p. 53. not holding ante-judiciary Delivery a materiall point nor of Faith p. 58 59 60 61. Councils how held by the Author how by some other Divines p. 64 65 66. Infallible in things necessary and proceeding advisedly p. 68 69. Their Errability speaking in common and abstractedly from all matters and manners of proceeding held by all p. 121 122 123. Fewer easier and less deceivable requisites to their Infallibility in the Authors Doctrin than in others p. 71. 121. 123. The Council of Trents Doctrin concerning Remission and Satisfaction exactly observ'd by the Author p. 177 178 179. D. DEfinitions may proceed upon Suppositions onely probable p. 96. 97. Delivery so speedily expected by Priviledg'd Altars diminishing the care of assisting our dead Friends p. 88 89. and our amendment here p. 184 185. The opinion of
it a la mode has reason neither to take offence nor give any upon that account but civilly to proceed with a gentile and unengag'd indifferency as in a business that concerns him not enough to be angry about And if you have such an esteem of your Religion you shall do very well to follow that Maxim But if you conceit writing in Religion to be one of the most efficacious courses to breed an eternall and incomparable mischief to the readers if it be so handled that he may think both sides as men call it probable and that it sinks into neithers heart then I beleeve your pen will prove sharp and stinging as wee see the Fathers is in such occasions though some milk and honey towards the Persons bee mingled for Charity and Edifications sake Now let me perform my promise You say you cannot digest their boldnes who usurp the Authority of the supreme tribunal to brand any opinion with the title of Heresy whilest the Church has not done it to their hands Yet presently after you do it your self branding this opinion of Purgatory as Hereticall and bringing your Evidence that you are convinc't it is condemned And I pray who off●●s to censure another but he takes himself to bee convinc't that it is against some Rule which he supposes sufficient to make a Catholick Truth as against Scripture Councils the generality of the Fathers or as you do against the Definition of a Pope and this to him is a Conviction that it is Condemned before he censures it Nor have you any more to build on than your own Perswasion that it is defin'd your self professing that the Question is brought to those niceties that one need have his Vnderstanding perfectly calm to judge of it So that on your perfectly calm judgment entirely relies this your censure Thus much to your self But as to the universall proposition of censuring opinions you seem a great stranger in the world For what famous Divine what University what Bishop is not thought fit to censure a malignant proposition Is there not regularly in all Dioceses some Censor Librorum expresly appointed Is not every Preacher subject to be forbidden the Chair if he advance a proposition that the Bishops Theologall thinks not fit to be suffer'd Are you ignorant of the pudder at Paris about censuring Monsieur Arnaulds letters which censure was not approved at Rome And yet you cannot digest their boldness who usurp the Authority of the supreme Tribunal to brand any opinion with the title of Heresy while the Church has not done it to their hands Know great Divine that the Pastor or Doctor who lets a wicked proposition run uncontroll'd among the people till means bee made to get it censu●'d and forbidden in Rome which how hard it is if the maintainer have great Friends may appear by the long contest betwixt the order of Saint Dominick and the Jesuits about certain propositions of Molina wrongs his own conscience and is unfaithfull to his vocation in suffering the infection to sink deeply into the hearts of the Faithfull ere he prepare an Antidote Besides when would the Pope take notice of what is publisht in France or England if no body cry Fire How many how violent out-cryes were there in France before the Jesuits wicked cases were condemn'd at Rome So that this principle of yours betrayes the Church into the hands of any potent Heresy that shall spring in a far Country Let me therefore intreat you not to use so uncivill terms towards all the learned Doctors of the Church I hope you will not be offended that I omit to answer some small-shot of yours in this Section that I may pass to the next in which I find my self taxed of a wrong Method in seeking Truth out of a story which as I do not particularly remember so am I far from denying for the Method you report as I understand you is truly mine that is as a Divine to find out the Truths in Philosophy and then the Mysteries of our Faith will square well enough with them and so I doubt not but I have been subject to declare it many times Nor can I conjecture who it was that gave mee the Answer you mention but shrewdly ghess that he either did not understand mee or the matter or both And because by your proceeding I fear you are in the same Errour I will endeavour to explicate my sentiments and leave the judgment of the cause to upright Understanders My conceit of matters of Faith is that the Scriptures and Creeds and sometimes also our Doctors deliver them in words well known but whose vulgar sence Divines see impossible to bee true For example where it is sung that the Eternall son descended from heaven the vulgar conceive a locall motion by which he came down into the B. Virgins womb and as I remember I saw it painted thus at Frankford in a Catholick Church whither I went to Mass The Holy Ghost above coming towards the Virgin and sending rayes before it in which was a little child carry'd by them towards that Blessed Mother An apprehension which the learned know to bee impossible So by our expression of Christ's sitting at the right hand of his father what doth a vulgar hearer imagin but an old man sitting in an high chair and his young Son in another set at his right hand I cannot believe you think it possible this meaning should be literally true To find out then the true sense I conceive Philosophy a fitting instrument So that by Philosophy we come thus to understand our Faith and by understanding it to be able both to defend it and propagate science out of it A certain sort of Divines if I wrong them not in calling them so there is who conceiting as soon as they have the words they know the meaning reckon not upon this way but cast about to find out more and other words that shall lead them to the defence and propagation of the known truths and think they must not look what Philosophy sayes but teach her what she ought to say This I conceive to have been the difference between me and the eminent Schollar that conferr'd with me When I had read thus far I expected to see the other Method strongly maintain'd mine as strongly laid flat on the ground but looking farther I onely find your own censure and that such a one as is hard to judge whether it be a dispraise or a commendation But whatsoever it is with mistake or addition From which last to begin you suppose I intend out of Philosophy to frame a Divinity and if I understand you right independently from Revelation which I am sure you can find neither in my words nor my writings but onely that revealed propositions were to be explicated by Philosophical ones known without Revelation Do you make no difference between inventing Divinity-truths and finding out the Meanings of the Words in which they are deliver'd Do not Lawyers dispute
prudently foyl'd you in every encounter in this Question that he hath left nothing for me but to discover your falshood in such by-questions as you thrust in to stuff out your Volume FOURTH DIVISION Containing an Answer to his seventeenth Section The Authours Doctrin of Councils explicated This new opinion of Purgatory in likelihood later than Saint Gregory IN your seventeenth Section you first put upon me that I am arm'd against the Authority of Popes and Councils and then you run headlong on with declamatory invectives upon that supposition But as the world is curious I conceive some will light on my defence as well as on your calumny to whom I thus explicate the true state of the question It is known to all Christians that Christ and his Apostles taught the world the Christian faith It is known to all Catholicks that this same faith has continued in the Catholick Church now fifteen ages It is known to the same that the means of continuing this faith hath been by Pastours and Fathers teaching their Children what themselves had learn'd by the same way It is likewise known that in divers ages there arose up divers Hereticks who endeavour'd to bring in Doctrins contrary to the received Faith and that Bishops sometimes in particular especially the Bishop of Rome sometimes in Collections or Councils with-stood and confounded such Hereticks confirming the old belief and rejecting all new inventions It is evident that to do this it fuffices to have veracity enough to attest what the old Doctrin was and power enough to suppress all such as stir against it Thus far all goes well Of late Ages among our curious School-men some have been so subtle that the Old faith would not serve them but they thought it necessary to bring in new points of Faith and because what was not of Faith could not become of Faith without a new revelation they look't about for a new revelation and finding the two supreme Courts of Christian discipline seated in General Councils and the Pope they quickly resolv'd to attribute the power of encreasing Christian Faith to these two Springs of Christianity Now the first difference betwixt the two parties engag'd in the present controversy is whether the Faith deliver'd by the Apostles be sufficient to govern the Church by or there be necessary fresh Additions of such points as cannot be known without a new revelation In which they whom I follow hold the negative they whom I suppose you follow the affirmative Out of this question springs a second whether in the Councils and in the Pope is to be acknowledg'd a Prophetical kind of Spirit by which towards the ordinary government of the Church they have a gift to reveal some things not before revealed nor deducible out of things already revealed by the natural power of discourse which God has left to mankind to govern it self by In which point also I follow them that deny you and your eminent learned men stand up for the Affirmative I hope by this any ingenious Reader will perceive that if the Faith deliver'd by Jesus Christ joyn'd with the natural power of discoursing be sufficient to govern the Church of God then those who give power to Councils and Popes sufficient to govern by this way give them as much as is necessary for the Church But if new Articles be necessary to the government of the Church then and onely then they fall short So that no understanding person reading these lines can doubt but the true question is this whether the Faith deliver'd by Christ be sufficient for the government of the Church or that we must expect new additions to our Faith every age or when occasion presents it self Whence it will easily appear that all the great noyse you make and furious Rhetorick you use of my denying the Authority of Councils my being arm'd against them and such like angry stuff are but uncharitable uncivil and highly injurious clamours without any true cause or ground at all But we shall hear more of these hereafter Now any prudent Christian that shall with moderate attention have read but so far will judge the question already decided For who dare maintain Christ's Doctrin was imperfect And indeed all that have any little modesty on your side will not say new Articles of Faith are necessary but that whatsoever the Church defines was before revealed though when they come to declare themselves they demand really new Articles onely calling them Explications of the former or Deductions from them And if they would justify that they were but such Deductions as natural reason can deduce there would remain no controversy which in very deed the Churches practise shews to be the truth In the first Council it being recorded that there was Conquisitio magna and all Councils and Popes ever since proceeding in the same style But here I must remember you what you said in the beginning concerning Pargatory that the reason why you write against my opinion was because it was translated into English And so I now protest that you are the cause why I write of this subject in English My books generally are to debate what I think in the points I write of with learned men whose care it is to divulge truths to the people dispensing to every one the quantity he is capable of not to raise any new thoughts in ignorant heads Your crying out against me forces me to a necessary defence before the people wherefore if any disputings concerning this matter displease any person of Judgment let it light upon your head who are the provoker and compeller of me into this new task which both age and other thoughts make me slowly and unwillingly undertake But I must not be mine own chuser but follow God As to what you say against this Doctrin first you desire your Reader to consider that if these grounds to wit that the Pope and the Council can err without distinguishing in what either matter or manner of proceeding Christian Faith is a meer mockery I confess the proposition grave in words but in sence not worthy a School-boy For first I ask you whether you mean in necessary points or unnecessary ones If you say in both I doubt your whole School will desert you For who is there that hath an ounce of brains who will give authority to the Church to determin all the subtle quirks of the School But if you say onely necessary ones then before you went farther against me you should have prov'd that the verities come by inheritance from Jesus Christ are not all that are necessary which question you never think on and so brandish your Logick against the apparitions in the clouds Secondly I ask you whether without counsel or with it If you say without it again your School will desert you If you say with it I ask you how much counsell and to what period In all which you will be at a loss Must it hold till by reason they
redemption of their friends out of Purgatory which I believe are those you speak of that hear not of this Doctrin without horrour Therefore Acute Sir you will or may see that your Argument is two edged and as the Auditours you speak of did not distinguish the degree of assent to this position from that they give to Faith so neither do they make any difference between it and the sleightest assent they have Thus may your Adversary by your Argument conclude any practise of the Church or common opinion of Preachers or generally receiv'd Ecclesiasticall storyes nay even the new holy dayes to be points of faith as well and as easily as you do this What difference of assent think you do the People make between these truths that there was a Saint Philip or Saint Jacob and that there was a Saint Bennet or Saint Augustin they hear of these far oftner then of those and seldom or never of the severall degrees wherein they are recommended to their assents Even the more prudent in many such points run currently on with an undistinguishing assent till something jog their thoughts and awaken them to look into the business then they begin to make it a question to examin and sift it and at last to settle it in its true box of Catholick or Theological or Historical faith or of some other inferiour assent You go on to perswade your Readers that those who accept of this Doctrin do it through comfortable apprehensions in lieu of great horrours before they were in and because it eases their consciences from the incumbent care of assisting their dead friends In the first you manifestly shew you understand not the Doctrin of your own Divines for we agree in the grievousness of the punishments or if we disagree in any thing it is that mine is the severer For the difference of our positions is not in what the punishments are which we both agree to be acts of the will Our difference is whether these acts of the will be caused by the force of nature in spirits as I say or by the force of material fire as your Divines maintain Which was the cause why when I explicated the nature of Hell in a Divinity lecture one of my Scholars told me I made Hell worse then it was For in truth the force of a material body is not to be compared to the strong activity of a subsistent spirit as any Divine will easily guess In your other point you seem to have fram'd your conceit out of conversation with Women and Children whose desires are violent at the instant but soon pass away and not out of the consideration of men whose counsels are govern'd by a far prospect and aym at perpetuity So you flatter poor Women with the hopes of relieving their friends the first morning or the first Saturday or in some speedy time and get present monies fit to make merry with for one day never reflecting that the ancient and manly charity for the dead was to establish Foundations and perpetual Anniversaries by which the memory of our friends and prayers for them was often renew'd and long continu'd whereas taking your Principles we need neither much fear the terrours of Purgatory nor seek new wayes to ease our Consciences from the incumbent care of assisting our departed friends since one Mass at a priviledg'd Altar will do the work alone and a very little sum of mony procure that Mass without going to the cost of Dirige's and such like chargable Offices And here I must ask my Readers my Adversary's leave to correct one suspition I had unawares entertain'd that Interest might have some influence upon the Defenders of this short stay in Purgatory I was deceiv'd and now I see they are no wayes accusable of that odious crime anciently great alms were given and those often repeated for the assistance of one Soul and so the Church and Church-men gain'd much and grew rich apace Now there is open'd a far cheaper way one piece alone and that of silver too dispatches the business Surely out fair and numerous and rich Monasteryes were not built and endow'd with such petty Contributions After this you proceed to the arraignment of me before my Bishop or a Nuncius Apostolicus But there want two things to make your arraignment good first that the people be inur'd to Tradition and to prefer the received Faith of the Church before all other Doctrins From the danger of which your Divines will secure me while they teach the People that the Church when it is sayd to be inerrable signifies the Pope alone that all the People may err that General Councils have no strength till they be seal'd by the Pope and so I shal have this help to appeal from them to the Pope let my Doctrin be as opposit as it will to all that hath been hitherto the belief of the Christian world The second thing that wants to the perfect arraignment is that you have not yet found out so weak a Bishop that will believe a Doctrin sprung from uncertain Visions foster'd by unlearned zeal and strengthen'd with an Exposition of a Council or of a Popes Bull against the rules of Grammar Logick and Divinity is the belief of the present Church In the mean while I give you great thanks both for your setting forth my plea against Luther and honouring it with so high an approbation that it thunders and lightens home For besides that the knowledge of that form of proceeding against Hereticks is very necessary it will give me a testimony that I am a good Christian and if I be not a very beast I have not committed an errour to fall under so gross and so well fore-seen a Censure To the charge it self from what I have already said you may gather my clear and full Ansver that the Doctrin I sustain is not by me pretended to be of faith but onely not against faith as also that the doctrin I oppose is not and Article of faith and supported by Fathers and Monuments of Antiquity and immemorable Custome but onely an Opinion not very ancient nor ratify'd by the consent of Fathers nor of so long a standing that it's beginning is not well enough known perhaps the later yet for its time as much prevailing doctrin of priviledg'd Altars may live to be as old as this is now and as common too will it therfore deserve to be put into our Creed or can it ever become an Article of faith which the whole Church professes is but an Opinion now And are not these differences betwixt Luthers case and mine whom you so charitably endevour to parallel sufficient to distinguish our dooms Examin them but once more and I will make you my Judg. Onely forget not these words which your self put down as part of my method to convince an heretick That the Authority of things which wee stand bound to beleeve descends handed down from CHRIST our B. SAVIOVR and no otherwise