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A34543 A second discourse of the religion of England further asserting, that reformed Christianity, setled [sic] in its due latitude, is the stability and advancement of this kingdom : wherein is included, an answer to a late book, entitled, A discourse of toleration. Corbet, John, 1620-1680. 1668 (1668) Wing C6263; ESTC R23042 29,774 53

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the indisposition of the Time and the tenderness of some mens Consciences had contracted I wonder at the confidence of that Assertion in the Answer That it is sufficiently known That none of the present Nonconformists did in the least measure agree in the use of those little things and though desired by the King to read so much of the Liturgy as themselves had not exception against and so could have no pretence from Conscience For it is well known that some of them did in compliance with the Kings desire read part of the Liturgy in their Churches As for others that did not perhaps for the prevention of scandal they might use their liberty of forbearance till some Reformation were obtained The truth is the Concessions on this side have been abused to the reproach and disadvantage of the depressed Party and from their readiness to yeild so far as they can for the common peace sake a perverse inference is made That they might yeild throughout if Humor and Faction did not rule them Is there any Justice or Charity in such dealing May not men of upright Consciences and peaceable Inclinations forbear the insisting upon some things to them very desirable and give place to some things not approved by them as the best in that kind if so be they might obtain their Peace and Liberty by Indulgence granted them in other things wherein Conscience binds them up that they cannot yeild Moreover some Concessions made by particular men of very Catholick spirits in the earnest pursuit of Peace have been wrack'd and wrested to a sense beyond their true import and then they that so handle them triumph in their own conceit over them as if they had given up the whole Cause Certasnly they are ill employed who from their Brethrens yeelding offers raise Opposition against them and endeavour to set them further off SECT XI The propounded Latitude leaves out nothing necessary to secure the Church's Peace TO set forth the propounded Latitude in the particular Limits thereof is not agreeable to a Discourse of this nature For it were presumptuous both in reference to Superiors and to the Party concerned in it And it is unnecessary for Prejudices being removed and the Conveniency of a greater Latitude being acknowledged the particular Boundaries thereof will easily be descried And indeed the generals that are expressed are a sufficient indication thereunto His Majesty's Declaration concerning Ecclesiastical Affairs hath mentioned particular Concessions on both sides and that Harmony of Affections therein He calls excellent Foundations to build upon The Moderation and Indulgence there specified would do the work I mean not so as if all Dissenters would instantly be thereby brought in but that our wide breach would presently be healed in great part and be in the surest way for a total and absolute healing and so much would be gained at present as might be able to conquer the remaining Difficulties The former Discourse had this position That the Ends of Church-Discipline do not require a Constitution of narrower bounds then things necessary to Faith and Life and Godly Order in the Church The Answerer saith That this Establishment is not enough for a Settlement because it doth not secure the Peace And to shew the insufficiency thereof he giveth two instances of Discord between the Parties First about the Persons to whose care the great things of Christianity should be intrusted to see them conveyed unto Posterity whether they shall be a Single Person or a Consistory or each single Congregation Secondly About the means of conveying those things the Worship of God and the Circumstances thereof From hence he draws this Conclusion Therefore to preserve Peace among her Members the Church had need to determine more then the great things of Christianity and to injoyn more then what is barely necessary to Faith and Order Verily it may much amuse one to think what that thing should be in the Ecclesiastical Polity which is not necessary to Christian Faith and Life and godly Order in the Church and yet necessary to secure the Church's Peace And if the aforesaid Instances of discord between the Church of England and the Dissenters are not necessary to Faith or Order what reason can be rendred of the inexorable Imposition thereof upon dissenting or doubting Consciences Can it be necessary to the Church's Peace to exclude or deprive men for such Differences in which neither Faith nor Order are concerned Or is this the Answerer's meaning That the Church's Peace consists in the exclusion of the Nonconformists and that the necessary use of some Injunctions stands in keeping them out so that not their Conformity but their Exclusion is the thing therby intended The Comprehension doth not suppose as it is mis-reported That Presbytery should be permitted or encouraged All intermedling with the Form of Church-Government was declined only the prescribed Uniformity was considered Besides for the exact Presbyterial Form to be comprehended in Episcopacy is contradictory yet that something of Presbytery should be included in it is not repugnant And such a Comprehension is approved in His Majesty's aforesaid Declaration Likewise King CHARLES the First in His Discourse touching the Differences between Himself and the Two Houses in this point declares that He is not against the managing of the Episcopal Presidency in one man by the joint Counsel and Consent of many Presbyters but that He had offered to restore it as a fit means to avoid those errors and corruptions and partialities which are incident to any one man also to avoid Tyranny which becomes no Christians least of all Church-men But neither this nor the former Treatise interposeth in this Matter but leaves it to the Wisdom of our Superiors The desired Latitude leaves not the Concernments of Church or State to the Ingenuity of Men nor casts out any Injunctions that are means of Peace and Unity yea or of that necessary Decency which the Apostle requires only of Rites and Opinions long disputed it would take in no more then needs must and not meerly because they have been long disputed but because they are also of little value and here confessed not to be necessary to Faith and Order yet are matters of endless Controversie in this Church and occasions of great separation from it It being asserted That the indisputable Truths of Faith and the indispensable Duties of Life are the main Object of Church-Discipline the Answerer demands What are those indisputable Truths since there is scarce any Truth of Faith that hath not been disputed against What manner of arguing is this Because All Truths have been disputed doth it follow that there are no indisputable Truths That is called Indisputable that cannot reasonably or justly be disputed though men of corrupt minds and reprobate concerning the Faith will call the greatest Truths in question and resist the clearest Evidence When the Apostle mentions matters of doubtful disputations he implies there be matters that are indubitable SECT XII Of
his divided People to be one among themselves and to keep them all in dependance upon Himself as the Procurer of their common safety The Prejudices that have been conceived and the Calumnies that have been raised against the Nonconformists gave occasion of resolving this Question Whether they be of a judgment and temper that makes them capable of being brought under the Magistrates Paternal Care and Conduct to such a stated Order as will comport with this Church and Kingdom This by the Answerer is termed a Dialect of Canting and is wilfully wrested into a Question of another nature Whether he had occasion given him to speak so scornfully let any judg that understand sober language But that they might appear uncapable of a Comprehension he sticks not to affirm That the Principles of Presbyterian Perswasion do not admit of any stability but may be drawn out to patronize the wildest Sects that are or have been And his main proof is taken from the bare word of Two of their Eminent Adversaries He might have remembred That the same Reproach is cast upon the Principles of Protestantism by Romish Writers One may well ask Where is the Truth and Candor of those men that write after this manner Consider the French Dutch Helvetian Churches how intire they keep themselves in Orthodox Unity from the Gangrene of Sects and Schisms The Church of Scotland whilst it was Presbyterian was inferior to none in the Unity of Doctrine and Church-Communion Did Prelacy ever effect the like Unity in the Church of England And shall the Sects that now are or lately were in this Nation be charged upon Presbytery that was never setled among us and against which the Sectaries had the greatest indignation Though that Way never obtained in England nor was favoured with the Magistrates vigorous aid yet it is very untrue that the first admirers and friends thereof grew sick of it and hissed for the other Sects to affront reproach and baffle it It is well known that it received those disgraces from another sort of men The asserting of this Government is far from the design of this or the former Treatise yet it may be lawful to vindicate it from unjust aspersions The Answerer is pleased to stile it No other but a Sect. I hope he doth not intend to make the Foreign Reformed Churches but so many Combinations of Sectaries If his meaning be that is no better than a Sect in England because another Government is established by Law let him tell us Whether Episcopacy would be a Sect if it should appear in those Countries where Presbytery is the Legal Government No less will follow if the Notion of Sect be extended so far as to fetch in whatsoever dissents from the Order by Law established SECT VII Of their Principles touching OBEDIENCE and GOVERNMENT ANother great Prejudice taken up against the Nonconformists is That they are inconsistent with any Regular Government And this Author reports that it is a common Maxime among the Dissenters That an Indifferent Thing becomes Vnlawful by being Commanded But let the World hear them speak for themselves out of their Account to His Majesty concerning the Review and Alteration of the Liturgy We humbly beseech Your Majesty to believe That we own no Principles of Faction or Disobedience nor patronize the Errors or Obstinacy of any It is granted us by all That nothing should be commanded us by man which is contrary to the Word of God That if it be and we know it we are bound not to perform it God being the Absolute Universal Sovereign That we must use all just means to discern the Will of God and whether the Commands of Men be contrary to it That if the Command be sinful and any through neglect of sufficient search should judg it Lawful his culpable Error excuseth not his doing it from being sin And therefore as a reasonable creature must needs have a judgment of discerning that he may rationally obey it so is he with the greatest care and diligence to exercise it in the greatest things even the obeying of God and the saving of his Soul And that where a strong probability of a great Sin and Danger lieth before us we must not rashly run on without search And that to go on against Conscience where it is mistaken is sin and danger to him that erreth And on the other side we are remembred that in things no way against the Law of God the Commands of our Governors must be obeyed but if they command what God forbids we must patiently submit to suffering and every soul must be subject to the Higher Powers for Conscience sake and not resist The Publike Judgment Civil or Ecclesiastical belongeth only to publike persons and not to any private man That no man must be be causlesly or pragmatically inquisitive into the reasons of his Superiors Commands nor by Pride and Self-conceitedness exalt his own understanding above its Worth and Office but all to be modestly and humbly self-suspicious That none must erroneously pretend to God's Law against the just Command of his Superiors nor pretend the doing of his duty to be a sin That he who suspecteth his Superiors Commands to be against Gods Laws must use all means for full information before he settle in a course of disobeying them And that he who indeed discovereth any thing commanded to be a sin though he must not do it must manage his Opinion with very great care and tenderness of the Publike Peace and the honour of his Governors These are our Principles If we are otherwise represented to Your Majesty we are mis-represented If we are accused of contradicting them we humbly crave that we may not be condemned before we be heard This is sound speech that cannot be reproved Wherefore if the Clemency of their Superiors shall remit those Injunctions that may wellbe dispensed with and unto which they cannot yeeld conformity for fear lest they sin against God their Principles will dispose them with an humble and thankful acquiescence to receive so great a Benefit SECT VIII Of placing them in the same rank for Crime and Guilt with the PAPISTS THE Answerer hath not feared to set the Papists and the Protestant Dissenters upon the same level in the guilt of Rebellion Cruelty and Turbulency For a high Charge having been made good against Popery That it disposeth Subjects to Rebellion That it persecutes all other Religions within its reach That wheresoever it finds encouragement it is restless till it bear down all or hath put all in disorder He comes and tells the World That the Nonconformists are no more innocent of the same Crimes Can men of sound minds and temperate spirits believe this And what greater advantage can be given the Popish Party then that a Protestant Writer should declare and publish that so great a part of Protestants are equally involved with them in those heinous Crimes with which the Protestants have always charged them And that such
to Mr. Richard Hooker about the writing of his Ecclesiastical Polity in these words It may be remembred that at the first the greatest part of the Learned in the Land were either eagerly affected or favourably inclined to that way the Books then written savoured for the most part of the Disciplinary stile it sounded every where in the Pulpits and in the common phrase of mens speech and the contrary Part began to fear they had taken a wrong course There is as little Truth and Justice in that report That the Party that were against Ceremonies caused the Troubles at Frankford and brought a Dishonor to the Reformation and Infamy upon our Nation The English Congregation at Frankford was setled after the Discipline of the Foreign Reformed Churches and enjoyed much Peace till certain eminent men zealous of the English Forms and Rites came among them and by a high hand brought in the Liturgy and brake them to pieces and forced away the Ministers and those Members that were in the first forming and setling of that Church Afterward they that remained and received the Liturgy continued not long in unity but in a short time an incurable and scandalous Schism brake out between the Pastor and almost the whole Congregation Lastly There is a great mistake in the main business of the Narrative in representing things as setled by the Church of England in the beginning of the Queen's Reign to please each Party in the abolishing of some and the retaining of other Ceremonies Whereas at the reviving the Reformation at that time the Ceremonies then abolished were offensive to all Protestants and nothing appears to be done in favour of the Anticeremonial Party about the points in difference But things were carried to a greater height against their Way than in King Edward's time whose Reformation was thought to incline more to that which was afterwards called Puritanism For which cause the Historian before mentioned hath written That that King being ill principled his Death was no infelicity to the Church of England The truth of the matter is That in the first Times of the Queen whose Reign was to be sounded in the Protestant Religion the Wisdom of the State intended chiefly the bringing over of the whole Body of the People and to settle them in that Profession and therefore thought fit to make no more alteration from their old Forms then was necessary to be made Care was taken that no part of the Liturgy might be offensive to the Papists and they accordingly resorted to our Divine Service for the first Ten years Also the retaining of the Ceremonies was a matter of condescention to the Popish Party the State thereby testifying how far they would stoop to gain them by yeelding as far as they might in their own Way Now long Experience hath shewed That what was done with respect to the Peace of former Times and reconciling of Papists to Protestants is become an occasion of dividing Protestants from one another without hope of converting Papists SECT XIV The alledged Reasons why the Ceremonies are not to be taken away Examined DIvers Reasons are alledged to prove a continued necessity for these Ceremonies as Because they that are for the Church are unwilling to have them taken away To revoke them is to comply with those that will never be satisfied Imputations have been laid upon the Things injoyned as Antichristian Idolatrous Superstitious A Warr was undertook to remove them And it is a reproach to the Church whose Foundation is upon the Truth to be various Hereunto we make answer Whosoever delight in the use of the Ceremonies may enjoy their liberty but let it suffice them to use it without laying a stumbling-block before others or intangling their Consciences or hindring all of a contrary Perswasion from the Ministry from teaching School yea and from taking any Academical Degree With what soberness can it be said the Dissenters will never be satisfied when hitherto they were never tryed with any Relaxation or Indulgence although they have given evident proofs of their unfeigned desires of Accommodation They do indeed esteem the Ceremonies an excess in the Worship of God but suppose that some have been immoderate in disparaging those Rituals on the other hand shall their value be so inhansed as to be thought more worth then the Church's Unity and the exercise of mutual Charity among its Members May not the Church salve her Honour by declaring That in remitting these Injunctions she meerly yeelds to the infirmity of weak Consciences As St. Paul declared concerning abstaining from meats who had as much power to make a Canon as any sort or number of Ecclesiastical persons can now pretend unto As concerning the late Warr it is easier said then proved That it was undertaken to remove the Ceremonies and it was not so declared by those that managed it But if it were so indeed as it is here suggested let this Argument be well weighed A dreadful Warr that had a dismal issue was undertaken to remove certain Ceremonies that at the best are but indifferent therefore let them never be removed but still inforced to the uttermost upon Consciences that disallow them As for the reproach of the Church by the appearance of being various we conceive the controverted Ceremonies are no Foundation of the Church of England nor any substantial part of her Religion and do therefore hope that some Indulgence therein will not fix upon her any brand of Inconstancy It is objected That the Popish Priests would hereby take advantage It seems then that greater care must be taken that the Papists who are implacable Adversaries be not offended then that many thousand honestly minded Protestants should be relieved But the strangest Reason comes up last Dissentions about things indifferent have necessitated the Church to make these Injunctions That is say the things are but indifferent yet great dissentions have risen about them and are like to continue without end therefore the Church hath been necessitated to impose them with great severity upon multitudes who esteem them unlawful and all for this end That dissentions may be removed We are astonished at this Argument from the Pen of a Learned man The truth is these alledged Reasons have more of Animosity in them then of Equity Charity or good Advice Indeed the Apostle saith Mark those that cause divisions and offences contrary to the Doctrine that ye have received but he doth not so brand those that scruple unwritten Traditions and needless Ceremonies but adhere to the intire Doctrine of Christ and all Divine Institutions SECT XV. Of the diversity of Opinion and Practice already permitted in the Church of England THE Moderation of the Church of England in the Articles of Predestination Divine Grace and Free-will being urged against the rigorous imposition of the controverted Orders and Ceremonies this Answer is made That the case is not the same for that those points are so full of difficulty that they and questions of
that nature have been matter of dispute in all Ages and in all Religions but about the Orders and Ceremonies this is the only thing to be resolved Whether the Church hath power to injoin an indifferent Ceremony But there is no such difference in the case The Question of things Indifferent hath been mistaken for the Grand Case of the Nonconformists for those points which are the main reason and matter of their inconformity are by them accounted not indifferent but unlawful and therefore not to be admitted in their practice till their Consciences be better satisfied And it is not irrational to think that serious doubtings may arise in sober minds about some parts of the injoyned Uniformity and particularly about those Ceremonies which seem to draw near to the significancy and moral efficacy of Sacraments and thereupon may appear to some not as meer circumstances but as parts of Divine Worship and their Consciences may be struck with Terror by the sense of God's Jealousie about any instituted Worship which Himself hath not prescribed Moreover these Orders and Ceremonies have been matters of dispute in all times since the beginning of Protestant Reformation But under the degenerate state of the Christian Churches by the great Apostacy of the later times there could be no occasion of disputing these things when Will-worship was generally exalted and the grossest Idolatries had prevailed I question the truth of that Assertion That the Dissenters cannot name one Church besides ours in which there was a Schism made for a Ceremony For a great Rent was made in the Christian Church throughout the World about a Ceremony or as small a matter to wit the time of celebrating the Feast of Easter But whensoever a Schism is made let them that cause it look to it and lay it to heart Wo to the world because of offences and wo to that man by whom the offence cometh But we still insist upon this Argument That these Rites being at the best but indifferent in the opinion of the Imposers the observation of them cannot in reason be esteemed of such importance to the substance of Religion as the different Opinions about the Articles aforesaid are And who knows not with what animosity and vehemence the Parties that are called Arminian and Antiarminian have fought against one another and what dreadful and destructive Consequences they pretend to draw from each others Opinions Now put case the more prevalent Party in the Church of England should go about to determine those Controversies on the one side or the other and truly they were sometimes determined by a Synod in His Majesty's Dominions namely by that of Dublin in the year 1615 also by the greatest Prelates and most eminent Doctors in England in the Lambeth-Articles and what hath been may again come to pass would not that side against whom the Decision passeth be ready to cry out of Oppression Yea how great a Rent would be made by it through the whole Fabrick of this Church Furthermore in Ceremonies publikely used and matters of open practice the Church of England hath thought good to indulge Dissents as in that of bowing toward the Altar or the East unless it be required by the local Statutes of particular Societies And in this the Sons of the Church do bear with one another according to the direction of the Canons made in the year 1640. Unto which may be added That the Mode of Worship in Cathedrals is much different from that in Parochial Churches Likewise some Ministers before their Sermon use a Prayer of their own conceiving others onely as the phrase is bid Prayer If these and other Varieties be no reproach to our Church will it reproach her to suffer one to Officiate with a Surpliss and another without it SECT XVI Men differently perswaded in the present Controversies may live together in Peace IT is no vain speculation to think we may have peace if men perswaded in their Consciences that the controverted Ceremonies are superstitious or at the best but Trifles and that the Liturgy and Ecclesiastical Polity need some Reformation should be joined with men far otherwise perswaded And the preserving of Peace in that case doth not suppose or require that all these differently perswaded men will be wise on both sides to content themselves with their own opinions But it supposeth the State and the chief Guides of the Church to be wise as it is always requisite they should be and that many of Reputation and Eminency on both sides will be prudent and temperate and examples of Moderation to others and not to suppose this is to disparage and debase our present Age but above all it supposeth the Publike Constitution so well stated and setled as to be able to curb the Imprudent and Unsober and to encourage the Modest and Well-advised Surely all Dissenters upon Conscience will not be prevailed with by the same Conscience to endeavour the propagation of their own way in these differences to the depression of others If some offer to disturb the Peace can no Rule of Government restrain them It is a deplorable case indeed if there be no remedy but for those that are favoured by the Higher Powers utterly to exclude and reject those that want the like favour and countenance At this day the Church of England by Her present Latitude or at least Connivence keeps peace among Her Sons of such different Perswasions as formerly stirred up great Dissentions in this Church Who is ignorant of the Contentions raised about the Arminian Controversies in the several Reigns of Queen Elizabeth King James and King Charles the First But in the present Times the mutual forbearance on both sides but chiefly the Church's Prudence hath lay'd asleep those Controversies whereas if one side presuming upon its Power and Prevalency should go about as formerly to decry and depress the other and to advance and magnifie themselves and ingross the Preferments doubtless the like flames would break out again For there is a great dislike and abhorrency setled at the Heart-root of both these Parties against each others Opinions and a sutable occasion would soon draw it out to an open Contestation Now if the Church's Peace and Unity be already maintained in such seemingly dangerous diversity of Opinion among her Members and Officers and those not of the meanest rank why should her Prudence and Polity he suspected as insufficient to maintain Unity and Peace in the indulging of the differently perswaded in the now disputed Rites and Opinions SECT XVII Of DISSENTERS of Narrower Principles and of TOLERATION THE Latitude discoursed in the former Treatise is unjustly impeached as providing onely for the Presbyterians and relinquishing all other Dissenters for it comprehends within the Establishment those of all sorts that are of Principles congruous to stated Order in the Church so that no sort is excluded whose Principles make them capable And was this Capacity any where restrained to the Presbyterians Some Nonconformists are for