ExaminatioÌ„ hath these vvords For I know the doctrine touching the holy Trinitie Nature and Offices of the Lord Iesus Free justification by him both the sacraments c. published by her Majesties authoritie and commanded by her lawes to be the Lords blessed and undoubted truthes without the knowledg and profession wherof no salvation is to be had And sheweth the things that he disliketh and for vvhat cause he durst not partake in the publik assemblies of our land notwithstanding the former truthes there taught and professed And againe in his Confession of faith he sayth The trueth of doctrine touching the holy Trinitie touching the natures and Offices of Christ Iustifying faith Sacraments and Eternall life and the rest established by her Majesties Lawes and professed by her self their Honours and such as have knowledge in the assemblies of this land I acknowledge from my heart to be such as if I mainteyned not the unitie and held not the communion of the same doctrine with them in these points I could not possibly be saved For out of the communion of the true profession which her Majestie hath established in these and the like truthes there is no hope of salvation left But ioyne notwithstanding in the publike assembles of this Land I dare not for the former causes I doe moreover willingly confesse that many both of the Teachers and also of the Professors within these Parish assemblies haue so imbraced this trueth of doctrine established and professed in this Land as the Lord of his infinite goodnes hath granted them the favour to show outwardly many tokens wherby in regard of the Lords election I professe before men and Angels that I judge them to be meÌ„bers of that body whereof the sonne of God Christ Iesus 〈◊〉 the head Onely herein the Lord be merciful unto them as to my self in regard of my synnes that they are not under that outward form of govermeÌ„t which Christ hath left c. And whereas Mr Iacob would father upon this people that they hold every person in England which holdeth the publick faith is no true Christian. Mr Iohnson in his answer pag. 7. sayth thus Touching this point I minde the state of their people two wayes the one concerning their severall persons considered a part from the constitution of your Church the other concerning their estate and standing in that constitution Concerning the former of these that is considering them a part from the coÌ„stitution I acknowledge that in divers of them there appeareth such knowledge and faith of the Gospell with the fruits thereof as they may well be thought in regard of Gods election in Christ to be heires of salvation and in that respect to be true Christians God pardoning unto them their standing under Antichrist which they doe not see or minde But I seare least many more were heretofore partaker of this grace then be now since your Antichristian estate and the unlawfulnes to aâ—ide therein hath been discovered Concerning the latter that is in respect of their estate standing in that constitution of your Church I am perswaded whosoever so stand holding your publikâ— faith and multitude of Antichristian abhominations withall they cannot by the word of God be judged true Christians as touching their outward estate in that Church of yours but stand all subject to wrath God imputing this their sinne unto them And that all therfore whosoever will be assured of Gods mercie and salvation ought with speed to goe out of your Church it still remayning in Antichristian estate c. Thus Desiderius I haue shewed you what divers of them haue written and professed in and about the point by you objected if it be not sufficient I will shew you more Desiderius You may spare that labour for I am fully satisfied Miles And for that cause I was the more large As also that when these things are published others at home abroad may likevvise receive satisfaction And if any of the people themselves have been so overseen as to speak according to the report that you heard they may by this meanes be againe brought to their owne grounds which some through simplenes rashnes or incoÌ„sideratenes may forget offend against the same But the more circumspect and wise are more considerate and wary Thus being somewhat weary I will rest from discoursing a while and in the meane time you may read these three writings which will be worth your paines and the printing And they also will cleare that people and the truth from such clamours as you haue heard concerning theÌ„ The first is a letter which one of them in Ireland wrote unto a Scottish preacher there Ao. 1594. wherein is layd downe sundrie grounds of their separation The other are two Petitions the first whereof was vvritten by Mr Henry Barrovve in the daies of Q. Elizabeth of famous memorie the secoÌ„d by another of their vvriters 〈◊〉 the time of the first Parliament holden in the happy raign of our now Soveraigne King Iames. To Mr Wood. Wisdome and grace from God most high WHereas you seemed very desirous to haue us set downe in writing our faith and profession concerning the true Church togither with the causes of our separation from the English and Irish parish assemblies promising your self either to asseÌ„t unto us or shew sufficient cause of your dislike by writing also with defece of your churches estate c We as willing to render an account of our beleefe and practise unto all men that shall demand the same and desirous of your salvation and fellowship in the holy faith if such be the will of God our selves of further instruction and light by any that can enform us from the word haue condiscended unto your request beleeving confessing concerning this part of the Gospel as followeth That the true Church of God on earth is communion and fellowship of righteous men and women whose harts God hath puâ—ified by saith calling and gathering them â—nto himself and under his true obedience by the scepter of his word and spirit sepaâ—ating them from the world of Infidels Turks â—ewes and false Christians to live togither under his holy covenant obeying and woâ—â—shiping him in spirit and truth keeping thâ— unitie of the Spirit in the band of peace anâ— love and unfeighned That this Church although dispersed amoÌ„g many natioÌ„s over the face of the earth is one as God is one hath one faith Lord religion law and goverment in all places unto it the scriptures and written word oâ— God is given for the direction thereof and edification in all thinges whereunto each member is bound as well Prince as people to observe inviolably whatsoever is therein commanded unto the worlds end and that no man nor the vvhole church it self hath authority to alter change inovate breake abrogate or superordeyne any thing unto or from this Lawe of the Most high neither may the church
mainteyned by them haue no better fundation then had the other And these that yet remaine are of a trueth brethren of the same broode and byrdes of the same fether had the same Syre and were all hatched after the same fashioÌ„ with the former that are driven avvay Desiderius You may therein be mistaken For those Abbats and the like vvere indeed first invented instituâ—ed ordeyned in the Romane church by authoritie of it of the head therof the Pope and if you wil I can further yet truely say by the permission of God and povver of the Divil vvas that done But our Bishops vvere made and ordeyned in our English Church of Protestants Miles Be it so yet that makes the sinne never the lesse but rather vvil cause the punishment from God to be the greaâ—er in asmuch as they knovve more and yet doe the same evil vvith others that knovv lesse And the nearer that men come unto God the greater in his sight are the sinnes that they commit Therfore the Priests in Israel offered greater sacrifices for their sinnes then ordinary Israelites that fel into the same Therfore also judgement first beginneth at the house of God c. Now as all Churches in the vvorld are bound to receive such Ministeries onely as God hath appointed and none other so vvhosoever doe institute appointe â—â—nd or receive any office of Ministerie that God hath not instituted appointed sent doe greaâ—ly sinne And if a true Church shall doe it they sinne more haynously then a false church that doeth the same Therefore your plea is nothing vvorth save against your self our church of England if it be as you hold it a true Church And vvhen Lord Abbats c. vvere cast out of it yet Lord Archbishops and Bishops c. vvere still reteyned that had their being at the same time their original vvith those that vvere rejected But such Bishops inferiâ—ur ministers as they haue made since vvas by immitatâ—oÌ„ of the Papists vvho had them in their church constantly before wee had any at all and although they made some change of persons for those places yet vvas there no change of the offices themselves but they remained the same in Q. Elizabeths dayes that they were before in Q. Maries dayes And there were divers of the same persons that were Bishops and Priestes in Q. Maries dayes that kept the same offices in Q. Elizabeths dayes by the former calling that they had in Popâ—ry and held stil the same Bishopricks Parsonagâ—s livings that vvere alotted them for maintenaÌ„ce in the very same ministerie before And they onely recanted of some popish heresies in doctrinâ— and opinion vvith renunciation of the supremaciâ— of the Bishop of Rome And some of them die not that as I haue seen under the hands of 14. witnesses vvhich vvas addressed to the Arch Bishop by vvay of complaint against their popish Parson Milâ—â— Bennes of Sevenock who vvas left upoÌ„ them froÌ„ the time of Q. Marie Neither vvere such if they recaÌ„ted esteemed vvorse then such as were made by themselves but rather reckned for the better And he that is made a Bishop or priest at Rhemes oâ— Rome coming to England with such recantation as aforesayd is admitted to administer without any newe ordination Wheras the Ministerie of Pastors made in the reformed Churches must passe under a new ordinatioÌ„ before they may administer there Which sheweth rightout what office and ordination it is that they like and love best Desiderius I pray you let me ask you what difference you put between the Israelites sinne in worshipping the calves or God by the calves as they pretended and the papists sin in worshipping their images or as they would haue it God by their images Miles I see in that small difference for Israel was then a false church though it had been of the true And the heape of papists are likewise a false church though the Church of Rome before time was true And whether men make the images of calves or of other creatures for any worship to God they are all inventions of men the workes of their â—endes and meere idols which haue no warrant in Gods word but are an open and direct breach of the second Commandement And in some ignoraÌ„t papists that pray unto the image it selfe as a thing of divine inspiration it is a transgressioÌ„ of the first But now to returne to the sound of your Bell which you brought as an instance against converting of false church livings to civil uses How contrarie was that sound to somthing which others haâ—e written of that very point in our owne tongue according to trueth Mr. Fr. Iohns in Ans. to M.H. Iacob hath words worthy of note p. 199. saying We acknowledge with thanks to God and her Majestie that cut of her highnes Dominions there be already abolished many of the abominations of the Romish Baby 16. And wee pray God that for as much as many of them be yet remayning c. that if it be the wil of God her High â—es may be the instrument to suppresse and abolish these â—lso and to establish the whole trueth of God according to this word And further that shee may take to her own Civil uses the Lordships and possessions of the Prelates and other Clergy as God hath fore told and appointed should be done with them Rev. 17.15 1 17.18 And as King Henry the eight her Majesties Fathâ—â— of famous memory did with the Abbats Monks Fryess Nunnes and with their possessions and revenewes Which happy worke by what Princes soever it be done as certainly will come to passe for the Lord of Hostes hath spoken it it will greatly redound to the glory of God the honour of themselves the free passage of the Gospell the peace of the Church benefit of the whole Common wealth Againe a faithful witnes of the trueth to â— George Ioy upon Dan. in the yeare 1545. writ downe ingeniously his own other mens judgment concerning the livings and maintenance the Prelates and other Clergy Vpon the 5. of Dâ—â—niel this question is made useâ— Then it is there thus answered The vessels prophanâ— by Belsazar were consecrated by the Word of God Wherâ—â—fore he sinned in prophaning them But the goods lewâ— of our Temples Abbâ—yes and Bishopricks are not consecrâ—â—ted to such uses by Gods Word but by their owne inventâ—â—ovetous charmings wherefore Emperours Kings anâ— Princes may take them away and put them to better vses 〈◊〉 to the maintenance of schooles vniversities c. Thuâ— wrote and witnessed those blessed servants of Goâ— heretofore Vpon which I would inferre that if thâ— Magistrates may imploy such livings to maintenaÌ„câ— of schooles vniversities then also for founding upholding of Hospitalls almes-houses the like for helpe of poore widowes fatherless strangers for the impotent sick and helpless of all sorts foâ— making and repairing of bridges hye wayes c. And also if it please the head of
the Common-wealth and neede so require they may serve for support to the state for royaltie of the Court for maintenaÌ„ce of lawfull warres against the enforcings of forreign foes or rebellions of domesticall enemies and a number the like services wherin such livings might be lawfully imployed with comfort and safe conscience all which may seem to be implyed in the former writers word et cetera to be their meaning likewise And wee may read in the Acts and Monuments in the hystories of Iohn Wicleff WilliaÌ„ Swinderby Sr. Iohn Oldcastle Lord Cobham Iohn Claydon and other the Martyrs of Christ who held professed these orders of Archbishops Lordbishops Archdeacons c. to be the Disciples of Antichrist yea very Antichrist theÌ„selves That the possessions and Lordships of the Clergie are the venime of Iudas shed into the Church c. Act. Monum edit 4. p. 150. a 468. b. 562. b. 363. a 6 9. b. Desiderius Why whither will you now run Miles Into the trueth I trust with all faithfull witnesses of the same no further theÌ„ I am taught by the word and spirite of God Desiderius But you haue not alwayes been of this minde that such livings ought not of right to apperteyne to the ministerie of the Gospell Neverthelesse if you haue seene a further light by the opposers of Prelatisme abroade then you had at home it would be good to make your friends and countrey partakers therof Miles Very gladly shall I doe that But first you are to observe this for your selfe that the holy Martyrs and witnesses of Christ were of this minde long before me as I haue shewed and could shewe yet further if need require And for that I haue not alwayes been of this minde it is sufficient that I came vnto it when God gaue me meanes to see that it was the minde of his High Majestie wherunto all men ought to conforme our selves The Apostle Paul was not alwayes of the minde that Iesus oâ— Nazaret was the Christ But some while he persecuted such as professed him til he saw otherwise And then he became a preacher of the same trueth both abroade and in bands unto the death And eveâ— so Lord Iesus just and righteous give me constancy in witnessing this part of thy truth against the Prelates their offices entrance administrations manner of maintenance and large jurisdictions all which are unlawfull and contrary to the scriptures As for your desire or hope of help from abroade I could wish you rather to turne your eyes another way and look nearer home For I am perswaded that there are not greater meanes of helpe to be found in the world for this service then God hath raised up in and unto our owne land of the true borne subjects and naturall children thereof And that both of the forwarder sort of Ministers and learned men in our Church of England as also and more specially of the people called Brownists who by their diligence in the scriptures and advantage of their cause are most strongly furnished against the Prelates against their Antichristian jurisdictions and Lordly livings c. At whose handes if helpe were sought espetially of the learned among them great helpe might be had Desiderius And may not the like helpes be had from the Anabaptists also for they are likewise very opposite to the Bishops Miles They are so And to give them their due many of them are very honest men with all but yet they disadvantage themselves sundry wayes First by their hereticall opinions 2. Because they haue approve and allow of generall Bishops for baptising c. in all their assemblies at least in so many of them as hold one societie and are of one coÌ„munion And so what they condemne and cast downe in others they after a sort doe justifie and hold up in theÌ„selves by their owne practise But the practise professioÌ„ of the other mistermed ones accordeth in one and strengtheneth one another Desiderius I am glad you conceipt the wayes of the Anabaptists no better For I had you in some jealousie concerning them But it is sorow enough that you preferre the Brownists before our forward Ministers Miles I haue good reason in this case so to doe For as they hold it unlawfull for our Ministers of EnglaÌ„d to haue those idolarrous livings aforesaid so they hold it unlawfull for their owne and all other ministeries to haue them but would that they were returned againe to the Common-wealth from whence they were taken But our forward Ministers that with the Prelates downe and their livings to be taken from them would gladly haue them for their owne use as you likewise pleaded for them And I feare they hold it no better then sacrilege if they be otherwise imployed Whereof your owne selfe also made question a litle before But to speak the trueth without respect of persons and to flatter with none these things in thern are meere trifling if not also hypocrisie arising of covetousnes For if they be lawfull for themselves they are lawfull for the superior Ministers also by vvhom these inferior ones were made If they say nay For their inferior Ministerie is a true Ministerie but the Lordly Ministerie is not so therfore these livings belong unto them and not to their Lords Herein they deceive themselves but let them not deceive you nor others For seing the inferiour Ministerie is derived from and made by the superiour eyther then the superiour ministerie must be true or these of their making cannot be true But the other being false that maketh these must needs bee false that are made by them For every creature bringeth forth according to his owne kinde whether it be man or byrds or beasts whether cleane or uncleane And if the roote be holy so are the branches But if the roote be corrupt and impure the branches must needs be so likewise Adam and Eve corrupted brought forth a man in their owne likenes that is one corrupted like themselves But I can shewe you divers wayes whereby you may discerne that the Brownists aâ— you call them are the best Champions to fight this battel and are most likely to win the field Desiderius I cannot tell I am sure they are counted a sâ—ct and are every where evil spoken of Miles But the question is whether it is for evil doing or for weldoing If for well doing they are â—o beare it paciently as partakers of the crosse and suffrings of Christ whose faithfull servants and witnesses of old even in the Apostles dayes were counted a sect likewise even the sect of the Nazarites and were every where evill spoken of in like sorte But did it therefore follow that they were according to the report esteem that was amongst men concerning them Or should men therefore haue rejected them or any good thing among them Let it be farre from you so to think and further off in that sort to speake eyther of those former or yet of these later
and streight causie may be shewed unto all men leading into the Church of God and holy practise of the gospel of Christ. They object and publish That to abolish this present Ministerie worship traditions government of their Church would be an intollerable innovation and most dangerous alteration to the subvertion of the State both in regard that these Bishops are Peares of the same and their power Courts and ordinances have been a long time established and confirmed by sundry Parliaments and so all that speak against them and their proceedings are enemies unto and speake against the peaceable estate of this Land To these politick objections and carnal reasons we answer with the Apostle That the wisdome of the flesh is death but the wisedome of the spirite life and peace for that the wisdom of the flesh is an enemie against God for it is not subject to the Law of God neyther indeed can be They therefore that thus stuÌ„ble at the word of God shal be broken and they upon whom it thus falleth shal be ground to poulder They that call all men unto the Law of God to the TestameÌ„t of Christ doe not innovate but they that depart in any jote and swerve from the same they innovate The word of God is the Archtype and ground work of all States degrees actions both ecclesiasticall and civil whereunto they must be framed whereby they shall be judged no other thing staÌ„ding before the face of that great Iudge then his owne revealed will in his word whatsoever then is agreeable unto the word of God is agreeable unto the State and whatsoever is contrary unto the word of God is contrary unto the State If then the estate of these Prelates Clergymen ministery and their proceedings can not be approved by but shal be fouÌ„d repugnant unto the Testament of Christ then are they pernicious contrary to the State drawing into the heavie wrath of God unto utter subversion and destruction Then are they for the safety of the State to be abolished and they whosoever they be enemies to God to their Prince unto the whole State that perswade the contrary upon any earthly respect or worldly policy upon any pretext of expediencie profite peace c. Alas there is no peace to the wicked and disobedient That Nation and that Kingdome that wil not obey unto the Gospel of our L. Iesus Christ shall perish and those Nations shal be utterly destroyed as the Lord hath not vainely threatned in his word And as to the persons of these Lordly Prelates and Pieres to Nobles or rather some of them without Pieres aboue all the Nobles in the Land wee abash not to affirme them to be no members of this state eyther civile or ecclesiasticall as in regard of their offices functions and dignities c. Civile they cannot be because they pretend to be Archbishops Bishops c. These are no civil honours nor offices neither may be executed by any civile persons Truely ecclesiasticall they are not because we finde no mention in Christs testament of any such Arch or Lord Bishops save our Saviour Christ himself only who is the chiefe Bishop Lord of the house He hath often and earnestly forbidden all other Bishops yea himselfe whilest he was here in the flesh refused such civile dignities titles offices and jurisdictions which these men or rather monsters are not ashamed notwithstaÌ„ding Christs express inhibition to receive and carry colouring their pride under the Princes commandement as though eyther the Prince might give or they receive that which Christ forbiddeth them Or as though their holy father the Pope might not so justifie all his blasphemous titles and fastuous pompe by Princes and Councels Thus commingle and confouÌ„d they these distinct ordinances callings of God the â—â—il and ecelesiasticall offices functions in their own persons and blasphemously usurpe the very peculiar names offices and honours proper to CHRIST alone wherby it is apparant by all these concurring notes that they are the very Antichrist that Beast that confound all the orders and ordinances both of Church coÌ„mune wealth and are the very bane poison ruine of both Church and commune wealth as if wee should search out bring to light the havock misrule they keep both in Church and commune wealth wee could make evident to all men But to our purpose They and al their traine are strangers in this coÌ„mune wealth This Kingdom stoode and florished before any Lord Bishops were and shall much more wheÌ„ they are gone What misse hath this State or commune wealth of their elder bretheren the Lord Abbats and the Munks Friers and those vermine yet were they rooted to seeming as deepely in this State both in the Church and commune wealth as they their Cleargie and Ministry now are carried as great a semblance of holines religion antiquitie vtility as these doo might as well have bene reserved and reformed as any of these They are all Brethren of a birth they sprang all of one head and togither with their head to one end they shall for the Lord hath spoken it As to the Lawes wherewith they would fortifie themselves and bind others so long as they are but the Lawes of men and not the Lawes of God yea contrarie to the lawes of God they are but as the new cordes of the Phiâ—listimes not able to strengthen their mast they shall neyther avayle them nor yet binde our Soveraigne Queen and this whole State The Kings of this Land togither with the assent of the Nobles and Commons haue alwayes taken absolute power to correct or abrogate any Lawes that are found contrary to the word of God There is no cause they should now fear the false Prophets threats whilst they haue the warrant of God his word for what they doe For God shall bless them in the deed Further they suggest That this Reformation would extinguish all learning take away the studie of all liberal Artes and so would draw the people and whole Land into ignorance atheisme barbaritie dissolutenes and in the end change the government from a Monarchie to Democratie or Anarchie These calumniations tending to the hie coÌ„tumelie reproch of that Ministerie order and government which Christ hath prescribed in his testament yea even of the Gospel sacred person of Christ himself deserve rather censure theÌ„ answer The untruth therof is evideÌ„t in that such effects were never found to follow the sincere practise of the Gospel to which whoso consenteth not is puft up and knoweth nothing how wise or learned soever he seem in his own eyes where the Gospel is purely taught and faithfully obeyed there sayth the Prophet shall the earth overflow with knowledge as the sea with waters And as to the Church of God it is sayd the piller and sure keeper of truth the nourserie of all good
verily The Prophets Apostles and Evangelists haue in their authentick writings layd downe the ground â—herof and upon that ground is all their buiding reared up and surely setled Moreover many of the Martyrs both former and latter haue mainteyned it as is to be seen in the Acts and Monuments of the Church Also in the dayes of Queen Elizabeth there was a separated Church wherof Mr Fitz. was Pastor that professed and practised that cause before Mr Browne wrote for it But he being one of the first writers in her Majesties reigne therfore those that followed him or Christ rather thorow his means directing them by Gods word were called Brownists as if they had been baptised into his name Which were falshood to think blasphemie to speake Desiderius The name makes them very odious to others and to say the trueth it caused me to carry some prejudice against them to the forestalling of my judgement in the things they holde Miles There are too many that doe so But let not the name offend you or any for ther was never any trueth brought to light but Satan through his notable craft and cunning hath caused some to paint it out after the names of men that it might seem base and contemptible in the eyes of all and to be â—eceived of none Hereupon haue Christians been called Hussites Hugonotes Lutherans Zuingliaus Calvinists Puritans Brownists and the like But there could be no name more odious then was given to our Maister Christ himself vvhom the vvicked called Belzebub and his people must in their measure be partaker of his reproch Let none therfore seeke to haue a good name by doing any evill thing nor yet for avoiding a bad name neglect any good that God requires at our hands neither let any man mesure any truth by the face that foes doe set upon it Desiderius I perceive by your plea that if these men had their right they should be acknovvledged for true Christians and not to be calumniated by the name of Brovvnists Miles Your perceiving then is good your vvords are just and right for so they ought to be esteemed Desiderius But vvhy then doe you so often call them so your selfe Miles For distinction sake onely but not at all in reproch And if you could alvvayes understand me vvhom I meane vvhen I call them Christians then vvould I give them no other name Desiderius You haue shevved me that many of those people vvere imprisoned some brought there to their end others executed by death and novv I aske vvhether any haue been banished Miles Ye sundry tymes And once in my ovvne sight and hearing at the Sessions in London foure of them vvere enforced to abjure the land and in what sort and manner it may appeare by a vvriting that seemes then to be taken by some that were beholders thereof and affected therewith Which writing was this A Memorandum Anno Domini 1604. IN the Raigne of our now Soveraigne Lord King Iames who is a defender of the Gospel foure persons were inforced to abjure the Land for the Gospels sake who practised the OrdinaÌ„ces therof in obedience to the King Christ whom God set to Raigne in his Church by the scepter of his word separating themselves froÌ„ our Church of England refusing to communicate joyne or partake with the same in the publike Ministerie worship and government ecclesiasticall with many other corruptions derived from Poperie and are still reteyned in the body bosome of the English Church This abjuration was urged upon the Statute of the 35. of Q. Eliz. after they had suffered 3. moneths imprisonment And at the publike Sessions in LoÌ„don it was thus carried That they should take their oathes to depart the Realme within one moneth and not to returne againe into any of the dominions of the late Queene without leave from his Majestie or his Highnes Successors Their chiefe speaker pleaded that they were true and faithfull subjects to his Majestie and had not deserved so to be dealt with and desired to be discharged without an oath and they would both promise and be bound to depart But that not being granted he desired that their oath might be with conditions and not so strictly against returning For sayd hee we may be occasioned to travel by sea to other couÌ„tries by crosse winds be driven again into those dominions contrary to our purpose Or we may be taken at sea and brought hither by force and divers the like and so be forsworne though against our wills Then it was tolde him that all such things was to be borne with But he replyed it could not save their oath from being broken without such things were expected Moreover he told the bench that they held themselves so bound to Parents Prince and Country that if in an other land they heard of any treason it was their duetie to come disclose the same And therefore sayd he I wil never take my oath without conditions Which he affirmed sundry times And when he saw notwithstanding that the oath was strictly administred unto them according to the Statute he adjoyned this speach himselfe But if the performance of any dutie to Prince Countrey Parents or the like doe move me to returne I will then be free of the oath And thus he would haue the Bench to understand he swore but not otherwise And they all keping silence the Towne-Clark answered that in such case they should seeke for leave And the party replyed that the case might require such hast as they could not stay for leave Then were they commanded to pay their fees and to be gone within a moneth ANd was not this a lamentable case Desiderius that in the daies of the gospell men should be thus entreated for the gospels sake and for resistance of the ordinances of Antichrist Desiderius Yes doubtlesse if it were so M. Mick Were so Yes upon the adventure of my best limme or life it selfe it was so And for those things wherein they differ from the opinions and practises in our Church of England I never savve any trueth more cleare in all my life As you also may easily perceive if you scan the difference from point to point by the scriptures And there is no trueth in England but they hold the same dissenting onely from them wherein they dissent from the word of GOD ALMIGHTY which ought to be followed in every jote tittle thereof Now by the Memorandum that I shewed you I remember a saying in the Preface of their Confession of faith at their first publishing of it which sayd They hoped God would raise up another Iohn Fox to compile togither the latter Martyrs and Witnesses of our Lo Iesus in these our dayes And it seemes that the work goes foreward in that God stirreth up some to keep records of such thinges for further use in tyme to come Now for the Statute above mentioned I knowe it was intended against popish Recusants and not against these And
being received into the soule by faith is the true nourishment therof and salvation of the whole man For he hath redeemed us from death destructiō iustified us in the sight of God and procured us life with him All which we apprehend thorow faith But in this trueth I know you are already grounded so as I need not speak further for your instruction and as for them should I speak should I write should I doe all I can it will not profite them For without the extraordinary work of God they must still beleeve as their church beleeves For that cannot erre as they fondly suppose So that it may hold what it vvill and they must hold the same vvithout all triall or mistrust Thus by one error they are fast fettered in many must be left to their blind guides till they fall togither into the ditch For other guides they will not haue Therfore I shall now spare a labour and speake no further of this point Desiderius Thus brought I you out of the way wherin you were shewing the unlawfulnes of kneeling in the sacramēt Yet vvas it not vvithout fruit for even by that vvhich you haue sayd men may playnely see that vvee ought not to conceite or imitate those supersticious idolatrous and absurd Papists vvho are so addicted to their ovvne vvayes and are like those that cried Great is Diana of the Ephesians Act. 19.28 And great vvith these is their goddesse the false church M. Mick But vvhat say you of the Christians whose cause I pleaded for that addict themselves to the wayes and word of God Desiderius I freely acknowledge that such ought to be lovingly respected And you haue brought me to like better of them then ever I did but espetially that you so well cleared their doctrine of faith to be sound and their separation to be but from sin and such outward orders and ordinances that are unsound and sinfull which they therefore forsake that they might doe the will of God according to his written word the light of our feet and lanterne to all our pathes M. Mick You haue sayd ynough to cleare them both from heresie and schisme for he is no heretique that is sound in the faith And he is no schismatique that separates onely from disorder sin For we ought not to communicate in sin either with men or Angels Desiderius And that is the ground whereupon I my selfe neyther doe nor dare communicate in the Church of England with that sinful ordinance of man the service book or book of cōmon prayer M. Mick If you professe so much in England by your practise as you haue here confessed with your mouth you may happen to be called a Brownist if not to tast of other hard intreaty Des. Yet the truth is the truth Which as it appeareth unto me so stand I bound to obey unto it But I pray you why doe the foresayd people solemnize mariage in civil Assemblies or dwellings M. Mick Because it is a civil action and ought civilly to be performed according to the true nature of it Desiderius Why it is the judgment almost of all men to haue it done in the Church by a Minister And in England it is a common received custome to haue it so performed M. Mick I wish rather that for the proofe of it you could haue sayd Thus saith the Lord. And then to haue shewed the chapter and verse where it is so sayd But you haue done nothing lesse neither in deed it is impossible to be done there being no such thing once named or implied in all the scripture And consequently the ground whereon you stand is not rocky and firme but unsure and sandy which shall wash away with the raine every house built upon such a foundation when the flouds come and the windes blowe shall certainly fall as we may learne both by Christs own doctrine in the Gospell and reason it selfe doth shewe the same And if an Argument drawen from a common custome be good then if it be a common custome to haue the Lords holy Sabbaths profaned with Beare and Bull baiting with dicing and carding with May games and morrice dance with laciviousnes and luxurie with rifling or revelling c. then all is good and all may be done sane conscientia But I hope that both you and every childe of God truely sanctified doe defie and abhorre all such things not onely on the Sabbath dayes but every day of the week and of their whole life And is it not a common received custome in England to worship God by their book of cōmon prayer in English as the Papists by their Massebook in Latin and by their Images beades crucifixes and other the like in stead of true invocation upon the Name of God by the work of his Spirite But being all vvithout and against the vvarrant of the vvord of God your self dare neyther practise nor approve them And vvhy then doe you not minde the like in other things no less unvvarrantable As is the solemnization of mariage ecclesiastically and other such like Many abominations might be pleaded for by common custome and multitude of men in that minde But lay aside these sandy grounds and heare the vvords of the Lavve Thou shalt not follow a multitude to doe evill neyther agree in a controversie to decline after many and overthrow the truth Exod. 23.2 Beleeve it for truth That All Church actions are layd dovvne in the scriptures vvhich is the rule of truth But in them vve finde no mention of mariage to be a Church action Therefore it ought not to be so made or used And againe All the dueties of the Ministerie are expressed in the scriptures But in them there is no more mention or vvarrant for the ministers solemnizing of mariages to the living then is for their burying of the dead vvhich is just none at all Ergo they are both unlavvfull and ought not to be done And where you affirme the contrary saying it ought to be done by a Minister doe you meane a minister indefinitely without any respect whether he be true or false Desiderius No But I meane a true Minister onely For no true Christian ought to goe to false minister for any such end M. Mick Your reason is right and good But then the Ministers of England haue no right in that work they being in respect of their offices not true but false Ministers and so proved Desiderius But in respect of their guiftes they may be sayd to be the Ministers of Christ. For many of them haue excellent giftes M. M. So had Balaam likewise who yet was but a false Minister and a Southsayer And so haue many Lawyers others in our Land if they would and might be suffred to exercise their gifts who yet are no Ministers at all Gifts then doe help to make men fit for a Ministerie but doe not make them ministers much lesse true Ministers For every true Minister must not onely be