chiefly directed to dissuade hir subiects myndes to whome in hucker mucker ye sende these bookes ouer from the acknowledging of the sayde hiâ—… Maiesties supreme authoritie maye it not truly be sayde men maye iustly gather this as youre chiefe ende Is not euery wriâ—…ers chiefe ende to persuade his reader in his principall matter is not this here youre principall matter to improue the taking vpon hir of this authoritie If ye haue any chiefer ende or more principall purpose that is better than this cléere your self and shew it Uerâ—…ly our chiefest end in writing hereof is to persuade hir subiectes that by your deceiuings stand in any mammering to a godly liking of the sayd title as most dâ—…e and lawfull to hir highnesse estate And if yours be not the contrarie hereto let your doings be according and we shal like it the better But see here M. Stapleton how soone ye folter in your numbers and misse in your tale at the fyrste beginning of all ye haue scored vs vp in your marginall score two vntruthes when ye come to counting them twaine afterward in your answere ye recken vs vp thrée saying of the second in your score This is an vntrue and false surmise of Maister Horne as are the other two here also reckning vp that that ye counted for the first And thus wée knowe not whether we haue euen or odde 2. or 3. Wherby all your reckening is marde and false counted Is this your daunce M. Stap. in beginning to trip the round when one lye tumbles out so proprely in the necke of an other But hoysta God blesse them they fallout faire Howbeit as they say it is a good horse that neuer stumbled thoughe it be an euill signe to stumble yea to fall downe right at the first setting out I make proofe by the continuall practise of the Church in like gouernment as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir The thirde vntruth you neuer proue the like gouernment namely in all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes The truthe or vntruthe of this being referred to the triall in the sayde practise will soone pull backe this thirde dauncer from hopping in your rounde And as for your self ye are a false piper M. Stapleton thus soone vnto your liâ—… to pipe a wrong rounde harping on an other issue than was required of the B. to proue Wherin as your greate falshood â—…hal appeare so your selfe do here halfe graunt this to be no vntruth daring not flatly say the Bishop neuer pro ued the like gouernment which the Bishop only here affirmeth but you denie it in a respect namely say you in al ecclesiasticall things and causes â–ª which the Bishop here affirmeth not nor it is his propre issue in question demaunded of Master Feck and yet he proueth euen that also I haue put into englishe the authors myndes and sentences The fourth vntruth for he wrongfully alleageth both the wordes and meanings of his authours He bringeth no instance at al wherby to proue this that he sayth which til he can do it must go for a lie of his owne making wherby he measureth other mens translations by his owne corrupting his authors wordes sentences mindes and all as is alreadie declared This title is so replenished with vntrue reportes The fyfth vntruth in wrongfully charging M Feckenham for the title of his treatise Whether Master FeckeÌ„hams treatise had a true title or no lette others déeme Maister Feckenham made a treatise entituled by the name of An ansvvere to the Queenes Maiesties Commissioners and the same by writing be deliuered to the Bishop of Winchester and afterwarde sent abroade the sayd Treatise entituled by name The declaration of suche scruples c. as Maister Iohn Feckenham by vvryting did deliuer vnto the Lorde Bishop c. when he neuer deliuered any suche entituled treaâ—…ise vnto him Is this then vntruly or wrongfully donâ—… to charge him of the title of his treatise His sixth and seuenth vntruth trifling denials You. c. not without the helpe of the reste as may be gathered deuised wrote and purposed to deliuer this booke to the Commissioners The eyght vntruth slaunderous Neither doth the Bishop flatly affirme it but only sayth as may be gathered whervpon M. Stapl. can not iustly gather a flat asseueration one way or other â–ª to conclude his vntruth Neither doth M St. improue it any way thoughe â—…e himselfe and that verie often without any coniecturing of the matter and yet can he gather no iust coniecture therof doth boldly charge the Bishop with the helpe of other Which so often as he doth he shoulde remember that this vntruth returneth on himselfe In al which points ye were so answered that ye had nothing to obiecte but seemed resolued and in a manerfully satisfyed The. 9. vntruth M. Feck was neuer so answered And in his couÌ„terblast he saith had not the B. put in these wordes In a maner otherwise it had passed al goodmaner honestie too so vntruly to make report the contrary being so wel known that he neuer yelded vnto you in any one poynt of religion neither in Courte nor yet in mannour nor else where Ye are a mannerly man I perceyue mayster Stapleton and as full of good manners or honestie it appeareth as an egge is full of oatemeale Belike ye haue bene brought vp neyther at courte nor mannour but at Hogges norton as they saye for otherwise what good manner or honestie is this to chalenge youre better of so heynous vntruth and proue nothyng at all agaynste hym but saye the contrarie is well knowne when your selfe knowe it not at al but speake without the booke For shame M. Stapl. learne better maners to referre it to them that were present at the hearing of both parties and then shal ye hazard your honestie and truth a great deale the lesse and shewe your nourture to be the more Wherevpon I made afterwarde relation of good meaning towardes you to certayn honourable persones of the good hope I had conceyued c. The. 10. vntruth incredible VVhat good meaning coulde he haue to him when he would haue him reuolt from the religion by him receiued and professed at Baptisme to reuolt from the faith of Christes catholike churche c. Why Master Stapleton is this incredible that the Bishop hoping of his conformitie in making relation thereof to the honourable might not haue therin a good meaning yea admitte the truth whiche he professeth were as false as you woulde haue it séeme to bée mighte he not for all that haue a good meaning Saule had a good meaning ye wot when he did full ill And how say ye to your Scholemen that speake so muche good of a good meaning yea euen in ill causes But as the Bishop meant wel to him so the cause was good also and your cause naught how well so euer ye meane in an
Dominus Iesus reueâ—…auit cuidam deuoto poterit venire in breui ad amorem timorem perfectum coelestium By this meanes as the Lord Iesus reuealed to a certayne deuoute man he might in shorte tyme come to a perfecte loue and feare of heauenly things But in the meane time the people sticking in visible and earthly thinges fell without all feare or loue of Gods truthe euen to a perfection of Idolatrie Beléeuing too muche in such faygned reuelations and reiecting the word of God wherein Christ hath not to a certayne deuoute man but to all the worlde reuealed the expresse will of his heauenly father in playne words forbidding the worshippe of all Images yea of all creatures as heathen and wicked Idolatrie But ye still crye that your Images are not Idols as the heathens Images were and therefore your worshippe of them is not Idolatrie as was theirs I omitte the examining of thys sequele M. Stapl. And will onely as nowe denye the antecedent The which thoughe other more at large haue improued and I haue somewhat touched it before yet bicause at the very instant of the writing hereof there came to my hands a paper by a certen friend of youres whome I spare to name wherein was conteyned as he affirmed suche reasons as were vnanswerable to proue that your Images are nothing like the Heathen Idols Although perusing the same by Doctor Saunders foresayde booke of Images it séemeth to be drawen from his collections of the differences betwéene Idols and Images and so by some other already may be full answered yet I thought it not amisse euen héere to set it downe and sée by this whiche already is spoken howe easily or hardly it is to be answered vnto The differences betweene the Idols of the Gentiles and our Images sayth this Papistes paper First some kinde of Idols had no truthe at all in nature but were feigned monsters all our Images haue that essentiall truthe extant in the world which they represent I answere first for some of their Idols ye say truth Secondly for all your Images ye make a loude lye As for ensample the Image of S. Sunday pictured like a man with all kinde of 〈◊〉 about him as though he had bene Iohn of all craftes Wheras for the béeing of any suche man there was no suche essentiall truth at all extant in the worlde that it represented And yet for your Images this is a generall rule that you must most firmly beléeue Quod qualem imaginem vides ad extra oculo corporali â—…lem Christus habet similitudinem aed infra secundum esse diuinale Ideale That what maner of Image thou seest outwarde with thy corporal eye Christ hath the same similitude inwarde according to his diuine beeing and conceyued forme And the like he sayth of the Uirgin â—…deò habeatur Imago Mariae virginis pulchra quoniam turpis Imago teste Maximo non est vera Imago Mariae sed falsa Cum ipsa Maria sit totius pulchritudinis decoris amoris regina domina Let a fayre Image be had of the virgin Mary bicause a foule Image as Maximus witnesseth is not the true Image of Mary but a false Image sith Mary is the Queene and Lady of fayrenesse comlynesse and loue And M. Saunders concluding this poynt saythe For looke what proportion is betweene thing and thing the same proportion is betweene signe and signe of those things By which rule of leueling the Image according to the essential truth extant in the worlde of the partie represented by the Image as many other Saincts yea Christes and the blessed Uirgins maye be proued Idols being pictured amisse and swaruing from their truth represented so by no meanes can ye defende your consecrate cake your three faced picture of God the father your winged and feathered Aungels your pictures of Saint Sauiour and Saint Sunday from being manifest Idols And therefore betweene these some Images of yours and those some Idols of theirs there is no difference in this first point Secondly all their Idols were without truth concerning fayth and religion All our Images conteyne such a truth as belongeth to Christes fayth and religion I answere No Images belong to the truth of Christes fayth religion As for religion all the religion that Christ ordeyned was without Images Images in diuerse places are forbidden to be worshipped Custodiâ—…e vos à simulacâ—…ris Kepe your selues from Images And they are in no place bidden to be worshipped As for fayth Fides ex auditu auditus auteÌ„ per verbum dei Faith coÌ„meth by hearing hearing by the worde of God. But the worship of Images is without the word of god yea as is alreadie shewed by your schoolemen it is but of the Churches ordinaÌ„ce but no faith can be with out Gods worde the worship then of Images is without the truth of Christs faith religion so likewise in this 2. point they differ not from the worship of the heathen Idols Thirdly sacrifice was done to their Idols not so to oure Images but onely to God. I answere first in that ye made such sacrifice to God as God neuer ordeyned and made more dayly renuing of sacrifices to him not contented with the only sacrifice that he made once for all therein ye committed plaine Idolatrie and your massing sacrifice was the Idoll Secondly where ye say ye made sacrifice onely to God I haue proued alreadie in plaine confession of your selues that ye made sacrifice to the blessed virgin also Thirdly that ye say they made sacrifice to their Idols so do not you If sacrifice bée the worship of Latria then so doe you by your owne tales but what matter maketh this wheÌ„ ye sacrificed to them of whome the Images were the pictures and what differed that from the Heathens doing that sacrificed to Iupiter before the Image of Iupiter or honored him by sacrifice in his Image whiche thinges you did also and therefore without any difference héerein bothe theirs and your Images are Idols Fourthly their Images belonged many times to very wicked men our Images which we worship belong alwayes to blessed Saincts Not alwayes M. St. to blessed Saincts except ye iumble God his Saincts togither Yea some of those that ye worship for blessed Saincts are doubted of your selues to be daÌ„ned spirites belike they were little better than wicked meÌ„ But how blessed saincts some of theÌ„ were whoÌ„ ye worshipped read eueÌ„ your own writer sir Thomas Mores works of Images pilgrimages ye shall sée little difference betwéene theirs yours except yours were the worsse euen in that simulata sanctitas est duplex iniquita Their counterfeit sainctship made them double hypocrites Fourthly some of the Gentils professed theÌ„selues to adore the vnsensible wood and stone we do not professe or teache any such thing but rather the contrarie I answere if some of the Gentiles did teach this among them
And what if it did not necessarily if it did it what is here the necessitie to or fro the matter and what if it did some necessariliâ—… though not all Yet ye see here is somwhat gotten to helpe the matter for warde Ye graunt this doing argueth a supremacie in some Ecclesiaâ—…call causes although not necessarilie But stâ—…pping backe againe ye â–ª say And 〈◊〉 in no 〈◊〉 Eccâ—…siasticall concerning the 〈◊〉 discussing and determinâ—…cion of the same Well and what if this also were graunted you that concerning the finall discussing and determination he had supremacie in no cause ecclesiasticall yet might it followe that in all other poynts except the finall discussing and determination he had the supremacie Verily say you waxing somewhat bolder without any perchance it is most playnly and certaynly true it dothe not And howe proue you this M. Stap. For say you euen in this schâ—…maticall councell and hereticall synagoge the Byshops played the chiefe part â–ª and they gaue the finall thoughé a wrong and wicked iudgement And verily then without any perchaunce either your selfe do make a foule lye or else bothe in calling the Councell and giuing the finall sentence also the Prince had the superioritie For whatsoeuer ye deniâ—… héere not 16 lynes before ye graâ—…nted that he â—…othe summoned the Councell and also that he and they anulled and reuoked that hys father had done at the Councell at Lions Lo heere in the annulling and reuoking which was the finall discussing and determination â–ª ye bothe ioyne hiâ—… with them and place him before them And thuâ—… vnawares whyle ye speake agaynst the truthe ye wotte not what or care not howe ye wrappe your selfe in contradictions and make your selfe a lyer Your seconde parcell is onely agaynst the order of the sentences collected by the Byshop asking him what honor he hath got for al his craâ—…tie cooping or cunning â–ª and smoth â—…oyning combining and incorporating a number of Nicephorus sentences togither For all these wordes you vse to outscoffe the matâ—…er and quarell at the placing of them vnorderly But all this whyle ye answere not one worde to any one worde in them and yet set you downe your marginall note with a solemne outâ—…rie O what a craftie Cooper and smothe Ioyner is master Horne But sée how handsomely it falleth out and how orderly euen where ye talke of order â–ª For where ye 〈◊〉 haue set downe this your marginall exclamation at the comming to his second parte saying what honor haue ye go for all your craftie cooping c. Ye set it downe for haste in the matter before answered concerning the schismaticall Councel and the bishops dealing therin doing as the story telleth of Doctor Shawe in his sermon of the prayse of king Richarde the thirde that or euer the king was come to the sermon had already sayde his parte that he should haue sayde at his comming and so with shame inough out of place and out of time repeated the same But you may say thankes be to God inke and paper can not blushe and although I thinke you can do as little your self yet a Gods name let it passe be it but the Printers misplacing of the note although it fell out ill fauorâ—…dly to light euen there where ye reprehende the Byshop for ill ioyning togither of his senteÌ„ces and your booke ioyneth your marginal notes all besides your matter Now hauing thus stoode trifling in reprehending the order of the bishops collection of Nicephorus sentences bicause he setteth them downe togither béeing not so set togither but here there dispersed in the great long Preface of Nicephorus where the Reader now at the length should looke that M. Stap. should come to answere some poynt materiall of all the bishops allegations as though he had fully answered them all hauing sayde not so much as Buffe vnto any one sentence alleaged he repeateth his former vaunt full lustily saying What honor haue you I say wonne by this or by the whole thing it self little or nothing furthering your cause and yet otherwise playne schismaticall and hereticall For the which your handsome and holy dealing the author of the foresaide Homilie and you yea M. Iewell too are worthy exceeding thanks Is not héere a proper answere thus to iest out the matter with scoffes crakes raylings Surely M. St. what honor soeuer the bishop hath wonne by this or not wonne as he looketh for none at your haÌ„ds your thaÌ„ks ye may reserue for your friends you win much shame to your selfe your cause thus shamefully to â—…umble vp the matter all onely with out facing it Ye say the B. hath patched vp a number of Nicephorus sentences togither Why do ye not â—…ip a sunder those patches ' If he hath vsed craftie cooping cunning smoothe ioyning combining and incorporating it were your part to vnhoope theÌ„ to dissolue theÌ„ to answere them Tush say you what néede that they are al little or nothing furthering your cause Now M. Sta I thinke then they might be the easelier answered not so to skip ouer them like whip Sir Iohn at his morrow Masie But til you answere something to theÌ„ an vpright iudge will déeme them much to further our cause Although it is somewhat that ye grauÌ„t that yet a litle they further our cause â—… I think by that the reader hath wayed theÌ„ better he shal sée they so hinder your cause that ye thought it the best way to let them all alone And that the Reader may the better beholde bothe your dealing and the Byshops allegations so iudge how much or howe little they further the matter and whether they might haue bene thought worthy the answering as the Byshoppe hathe gathered them so will I set them downe Who hath glorified God more and shewed more feruent zeale sayth Nicephorus to the Emperour towardes him in pure religion without fayning than thou hast done Who hath with suche feruent zeale sought after the most sincere fayth muche indaungered or clensed agayne the holy table When thou sawest our true religion brought into perill with newe deuises brought in by counterfeite and naughtie doctrines thou diddest defende it moste paynefully and wisely thou diddest shewe thy selfe to be the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and staye in so horrible wauering and errour in matters beginning to faynte and to perishe as it were with shipwracke Thou arte the guyde of the profession of our fayth Thou haste restored the Catholike and vniuersall Church beeing troubled with new matters or opinions to the olde state Thou hast banished from the Church all vnlawfull and impure doctrine Thou hast clensed agayne with the worde of truthe the Temple from choppers and chaungers of the diuine doctrine and from hereticall deprauers thereof Thou haste bene set on fyre with a godly zeale for the diuine Table Thou haste established the doctrine Thou haste made constitutions for the same Thou haste entrenched the true religion with
mightie defences That which was pulled downe thou haste made vp agayne and haste made the same whole and sounde agayne with a conuenient knitting togither of all the partes and members To be shorte thou haste saythe Nicephorus to the Emperour established true religion and godlynesse with spirituall butresses namely the doctrine and rules of the auncient fathers These are the Bishops allegations out of Nicephorus for this Princes dealing in ecclesiastical matters Wherin are comprehended as eche man may sée all the chiefe ecclesiasticall causes The true religion the sincere fayth the diuine doctrine godlynesse making constitutions the fathers rules the catholike vniuersal church Neither ascribeth he to the Prince herein a power LegaÌ„tine froÌ„ Priest Byshop Patriarke or Pope muche lesse to be their onely executioner but vnder God he giueth him a supreme gouernement in calling him not onely the defender but the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay the guyde the restorer the clenser the establisher the entrencher and maker vp of all these things On the contrarie the puller downe and banisher of newe deuises counterfeit naughtie vnlawfull and impure doctrines of horrible errors and heretical deprauers And this his chief dealing herein to be most seemely for him and chiefly belonging to his princely office Dothe all this M. Stap. little or nothing further our cause if it doe not then it lyttle or nothing hindreth yours Why graunte ye not then vnto it if ye graunte but thus muche we wil vrge you little or nothing further for what is not héere conteined that is either conteined in the issue betwéene the Bishop and M. Feck or in the othe of the O. Maiesties supremacie that ye refuse to take But as light as yâ—… would séeme to make of this it pincheth you and ye dare not grauÌ„t nor answere any sentence therof Onely ye giue a snatche at a worde and bayte at the bishops marginal note vpoÌ„ these former allegatioÌ„s Wherin ye play like Alciates dogge at whom when one hurled a stone he let go him froÌ„ whom the stone came wreaked his anger on the stone So set you vpon the marginall note that in déede hitteth you a good souse but the allegations from wheÌ„ce the marginal note doth come ye let alone and fal to tugging of the note Only as I saide ye snatche at a word as though all the weight of the marginall note were setched only from thence and not from all these sentences But say you M. Home will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus He hath placed a note in the margine sufficient â—… trow to conclude his principall purpose And that is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is indeede a ioly marginall note But where findeth M Horne the same in his text for soothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering c. of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie But O more than childishe follie Coulde that craftie Cooper of thys allegation informe you no better master Horne was he no better seene in Grammer or in the profession of a schole master than thus foully and fondely to misse the true interpretation of the Latine worde for what other is suprema anchora in good Englishe than the laste anchor the laste refuge the extreme holde and staye to rest vpon As suprema verba doe signifie the laste wordes of a man in hys laste wyll as summa dies the laste daye supremum iudicium the laste iudgement with a number of lyke Phrases So suprema anchora is the laste anchor signifying the laste holde and staye as in the perill of tempeste the laste refuge is to caste anchor In suche a sense Nicephorus calleth this Emperour the laste the mightie and the holy anchor or stay in so horrible wauering and errour Signifying that nowe by him they were stayed from the storme of schisme as from a storme in the sea by casting the anchor the shippe is stayed But by the metaphore of an anchor to conclude a supremacie is as wyse as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a Saddle For as well dothe a saddle fitte a Cowe as the qualitie of an anchor resemble a supremacie But by suche beggerly shiftes a barren cause muste be vpholded First all is saide by the way of amplification to extoll the Emperour as in the same sentence he calleth him the sixt element reaching aboue Aristotels fifte body ouer the foure elementes with suche lyke Then all is but a Metaphore which were it true proueth not nor concludeth but expresseth and lightneth a truth Thirdly the Metaphore is ill translated and last of all worsse applied A sirra M. St. héere is a whot sturre and highe wordes A man would thinke all is nowe answered to the full and yet when all coÌ„mes to all héere is nothing of all this a do agaynst any one sentence of the Byshops allegations But the poore marginall note and one poore séelie worde of all these long allegations shall abye for this geare First ye say M. Stapl. that M. Horne will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus What ye meane by leesing I know not But it appeareth he may leâ—…e or finde them all for any thing ye wil answere to them Ye slinke for the nonce to the marginall note which is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is in deede say you a ioly marginal note but where findeth M. Horne the same in his texte forsoothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie Is there nothing M. Stap. in all these allegations that ye coulde sée wherfore the Bishop set downe his marginal note of the Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed but onely this sentence yea onely that worde do not all the other sentences importe as muche as this that he is the guyde of the profession of our fayth the restorer of the catholike and vniuersall Church the banisher from the Church of all vnlawful and impure doctrine the clenser of the temple with the worde of truth froÌ„ choppers and changers of the diuine doctrine and from hereticall deprauers thereof That he is the entrencher of true religion with mightie defences That he is the establisher of the doctrine and maker of constitutions for the same that he is the maker vp agayne the maker whole and sounde agayne of al that was pulled downe Might not all this to an indifferent reader be thought sufficient to answere the marginal note and comprehende in all poyntes as muche as the note yea though ye quite set aside the sentence and word wherat ye wrangle And yet with M. Stap. this one sentence must beare the weight of all that the bishop alleaged the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so
Empresses write for Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople and for the Bishop of Rome Wherein though they ascribe the dealings to the Councell and to the Bishop of Rome yet the licence and authoritie to do any thing or to stay any thing they al ascribe to the Emperour And as they ascribe this in these Epistles vnto him which argueth his supreme gouernement in all these matters so the Emperour in the answeres to these Epistles that are immediatly set downe to those by you cited acknowledgeth and claymes his supreme authoritie therein In the answere to the first from whence ye bring your allegation for the Popes primacie he saith The Emperour Theodosius to my Lord Valentinian Emperour In the beginning of your letters it is signified by your Maiestie both that your mildenesse came to Rome and that a petition was offered vp to you by Leo the most reuerende Patriarche As concerning your safe returne to the Citie of Rome O my Lorde my moste holy Sonne and honorable Emperour we render thankes accordingly to the diuine Maiestie but as concerning those things which the foresaide most reuerende man hath spoken it is already declared vnto him more plainly and fully as we suppose and he knoweth that we swarue in no parte from the Religion of our fathers and the tradition of our auncetours We will no other thing than the fathers sacraments deliuered as by succession to keepe them inuiolably For this cause therefore hauing knowledge that certaine persons with hurtfull noueltie trouble the most holy Churches we haue decreed a Synod to be holden at Ephesus VVhereas in the presence of the most reuerend Bishops with much libertie and with sounde truth both the vnworthie were remoued from their Priesthood and those that were iudged to be worthy were receyued VVe therefore know nothing committed of them contrary to the rules of faith or iustice Therefore all the contention was examined of the holy Councell Flauianus which was founde giltie of hurtfull newfanglednesse hath receiued his dew and he being remoued all peace and concorde remaineth in the Churches and nothing but truth doth florish Thus the dealing and determining of the controuersie remayning Synodically to the Priests and Bishops the decreing of the Councell the assigning of the time and place thereto the giuing them in charge to boulte out the truth the receyuing intelligence from them of their iudgements the allowing and ratifying their determination belonged to Theodosius And in respect of this his supreme doing though at other times he extoll the Bishop of Rome yet here he onely calleth him but most reuerende Patriarche and most reuerend man as he calleth other Bishops The answere to the second Epistle hath the like Theodosius to my Ladie Placidia the honorable Empresse our highnesse vnderstandeth by the letters of your mildenesse what the most reuerende patriarch Leo hath desired of your highnesse To these your letters we declare that concerning those things whiche are spoken of the most reuerende Bishop we haue written often times alreadie more fully and more at large by which writing it is without doubt manifest that we haue defined or decreed or vnderstoode nothing besides the fayth of the fathers or the diuine opinions or the definitions of the most reuerende Bishops which were gathered togither in the Citie of Nice vnder Constantine of godly memorie or of late were gathered togither at Ephesus by our precept But this onely we commaunded to be ordeyned that all persons which by noisome hurtfulnesse troubled the holy Churches should worthily be remoued c. Thus doth the Emperour commaunde the Councell to be holden He giueth a generall charge to the Bishops to ordeyne that that they ordeyned to wete the expulsion or deposition of perturbers of the Church whatsoeuer they were and in what matter ecclesiasticall soeuer they were And when the Bishops had according to the Emperours commaundement ordeynes this decrée and in their synodicall discussing of the matter found out Flauianus though therein they did him wrong to be culpable hereof then the Emperor peruseth ratifieth and confirmeth the same their synodicall iudgement and sayth he defined and decreed it himselfe bicause he approued and confirmed their definition and decrée Which is a manifest argument of Thodosius supreme authoritie ouer all the Bishops debatings and determinings of their ecclesiasticall constitutions To the same effect is the other Epistle to Eudoxia Wherin he telleth the Empresse flatly that since these things were alreadie decreed it was not possible to determine of the matter any more In which deniall of suffring the matter to be tryed any further he sheweth also his supreme authoritie of debarring and frustrating any appeales to Rome that you make so great accompt vpon The Emperour will not onely not suffer it to take place and to infringe the Councels and his owne doing but sayth it is impossible to procéede on the matter alreadie determined And thus he reiecteth Flauianus appeale from the Epheâ—…ine Councell to the Bishop of Rome Which Councell notwithstanding should also haue bene held by the Emperours leaue and appoyntment But he would not allow it although Pope Lee laboured to him and to Ualentinian Emperors to Eudoria and Placidia Empresses neuer so much therefore Lo M. St. here are the generalities and the particularities also Wherein ye may sée what belongeth to eyther partie Hearken good M. Stap. and giue good aduertisement therto since ye will not vtter it your selfe and yet woulde haue vs listen to you You say ye wander not in obscure generalities but ye go to worke plainly truly and particularly And yet of all this ye speake not one word Ye would neither answerâ—… the Bishops allegation but set another agaynst it which is no plaine nor true kinde of aunswering neither yet for that you alleage ye alleage it either plainely or truely or particularly as ye pretende But cull out a piece of that that séemeth to set forth your cause by extolling the Bishop of Rome and when the matter is plainly truly and particularly sifted out it neither proueth any supremacie for him and in all poynts sheweth the Princes supremacie against you But ye are the more to be borne withall for I thinke ye read not the whole particulars but either as your commoÌ„ places led you or the title prefixed tickled you that saith In qua quoque Romani Pontificiâ—… authoritas comâ—…ndatur VVherein also the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome is commended And so gréedily ye snatched at that sentence and let go all the residue But call ye this plainly truly and particularly going to worke master Stapleton The. 26. Diuision THe Bishop hauing hitherto as master Feck required in his issue proued by the Scriptures both by the olde testament and the newe and by some such Doctours as haue written thereon and also which was more than M. Feck requested by the ecclesiasticall writers Nicephorus and by some of those Emperors whom they commend for most godly proued the like
Princes and earnest defenders of the faith and Church of Christe And all true subiectes maye sticke the faster in all duetifull obedience to their naturall Princes detesting the foraigne vsurpation of the Pope and all the traiterous seducings of these his chaplaines That Antichrist may haue the ouerthrow the Prince may haue the regiment the truth mayâ—… haue the victorie the reader may haue the benefite and God aboue all things may haue for euer the glory through Iesus Christs our onely Lord and Sauiour So be it FINIS Psalme 2. VVherfore be ye now aduised O ye Kings be ye learned ye that are Iudges of the erth serue ye God vvith feare and reioyce vnto him with reuerence kysse the sonne leà st he be angrie and so ye perishe from the right vvay if his vvath be kindled yea but a little blessed are all they that put their trust in him Luc. 6. Prefac 2. Fol. 59. b. 1. Pref. pag. 1â—… Fol. 5 b. F de ma. te â—… qui habet serâ—…um c. 1. Prefa pa. 19 â–ª I. Fol. 1. a. Prefa diui 1. Master Feckéhaâ—…s further meaning than he durst vtter Winchest Stapleton Fol. 1. a. Pref. sect 1. 2. Bridges Our chiefe end in this coâ—…nouersia The Papistes chiefe ende in this controuersie M. Stapleton misreckâ—…neth in his nuÌ„bers 3. Winchest Stapleton Pref. â—… sect 2. Fo 2. b. M. Stap. pipeth avvâ—…oÌ„g round 4. Fol. 5. a. Pâ—…efa diuis 3. False translations 5. fo 6. c. 1. di 1. The false title of M Feckeohams treatise 6. 7. fo 6. c. 1. di 1. 8. f. 9. b. c. 1. di 2. The coÌ„lecture of others help 9. Fol. 10. diui Passing good manners 10. Winchest Stapleton Fol. 10. diui 2 Bridges A good meaning M. Stapletons well meaning in an il matter M 〈◊〉 baptisme 1. Cor. 2. 11. Fol. 10. diui â—… 12. Fol. 10. câ—…p 1. diuis 2. The feare of M. Feckenaâ—…s shrinking froÌ„ his confederates Fol. 11. b. 14. Folâ—… 13. a. diuil 3. The giuing vp of M 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 15. Foli 14. a diuis 4. M. Feckohams and the Papists disobedience 17. 18. 19. The Papistes sighs and grones for a chaÌ„ge The Pope takes vpon him to be God. The Pope clay meth the Queenes maiesties place Foli 28. Fol. 30. b. diui 6. M. Sta. confesseth that Mast. Feck spoyled Queene Mary of hir royall power What is catholike 〈◊〉 Fol. 30. cap 4. diui 6. 25. Fol. 32. diui 7. The toure M. Feckenhams holde 26. M. Fecknhams charges in the tower defrayd by his frendes 27. Folio 32. diui 7. M. Stapletons vnorderly reckoning his vntruthes 28. Fol. 35 a. diui 8. Whether falshod may bee known or no. Genes 3 Iohn 3. 29. Foli 35. a. diuis 8. Fo. 35. diui 8. M. Stapletons cunning handling the matter M. Fecknhams yelding to the supremacie in K. Edwardes reigne 31. Fo. 35. diui 8. The coÌ„ference had with maister â—…eckeÌ„ham â—…n king â—…dwards reigne 32. Foli 35. a. b diuis 8. 33. Folio 39. a. diuis 9. Fol. 40. 2. diuis 10. 34. 35. 36. 37. 38. Fo. 42. diu 11 Moyses 39. Fol. 45. a. diuis 12. Iosue 40. Foli 45. a. diuision 12. Eleazar 41. Fol. 46. b. diuis 13. Dauid 42. Folio 48. b. diuis 14. Salomon The execution of Gods sentence empayteth not the Princes suprem authoritie 3. Reg. 2. 1. Reg. 2. 1. Reg. 3. M. Stap. falsly wresteth the text to his aduauntage How Salomon fuâ—…filled the prophecie How Soule also fulfilled the prophecie Gods foretelling of things 43. Fol. 48 b. diuis 14. 2. Paral. â—… M. Stap. quarel at the print of the letter not at the matter 44. Fol. 49. diuis 14. M. S. standeth on the termes of the scripture and le ts go the matter of the scripture 45. Fol. 49 b â–ª Diuis 15. 46. Fol. 52 a. diuis 16. 47. Fol. 52. a. Diuis 16. 50. Fol. 58. Diuis 18. Fol â–ª 58. Diuis 16. M Stapletons fortresse S. Aug. iudgement of the catholike Church 52. Fol. 65 a. Diuis 19. 53. Fol 67 a. Diuis 20. 54. Fol. 67 a. diuis 20. 55. Images and Idols Fol. 67. b. Diuis 20. 59. Fol. 69. Diuis 21. 57. Fol. 70 b. Diuis 22. 59. Fol. 71. a. diuis 22. 60. Fol. 71. â—… Diuis 22. M. Sta. graunt out of Sainte August 61. Fol. 75. Diuis 23. The vnderstan ding of Eusebius Fol. 75. diuis 23. 63. Fol. 75. b. diuis 24. Fol. 76. Nicephorus compareth Emanuell or Andronicus to Constantine the greate 64. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â–ª b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Whether this Emperor were Emanuell or Andronicus 65. Fol. 76 â–ª a. Diuil 24. Fusebius his pâ—…ayse of the Emperor 66. Fol. 76 a. Diuis 24. 67. Fol 79 a. Diuis 25. The woorde godlynesse in S. Paule comprâ—…hendeth religion Fol. 79. â—… diuis 25. Racking a sentence 68. 69. Fol 81 b. Diuis 26. Stapl. Pag. 22. 23. Prefa 1. Staplet Pag. 24. Prefat 2. Stap. Pag. 24. Sâ—…p Pag. 24. Stap. Pag. 24. Stap. Pag. 25. Stap. Pag. 25. Stap. Pag. 25. Prefat 2. Stap. pag. 26. Stap. Pag. 27. Prefat 2. Stap. Pag. 27. Pref. 2. Aug. de vâ—…ilitate credendi â–ª Cap. 9. Stap. Pag. 27. Stap. Pag. 27. Pref. â—… Stap. pa. 27. Pref. 2. Stap pa. 27. 28. Stap. pag. 28. Stap pa. 28. Pref. 2. Stap. pa. 29. Pref. 2. Stap. pa 28. Pref. 2. Stap. pa. 29. Pref. 2. Ephes. 2. Stap. pag. 29. Pref. 2. Esay 48. Ierem. 17. Stap. pag. 29. Pref. 2. St. pa. 29. 30 Pref. 2. Stap. pa 30. Pref. 2. Stap pa. 31. Pref. 2. Sâ—… pa. 31. 32 Pref. 2. Stap. pa. 32. Pref. 2. Stap. pa. 33. Pref. 2. Stap. li. 1. ca. 1. Fol. 1. Stap. fol. 1. Winchester Fol. 2. b. 3. a Stapl. fol. 3. a. The state of the coÌ„trouersie and principall question M. FeckenhaÌ„ DiuisioÌ„ 8. Pag. 6. b. St. fol. 3. a. M. Sta. requireth sixe considerations to be graunted or euer he enter into the question Stapl. 3. b. The first consideration 3. Reg. 2. The seconde consideration St. fol. 3. b. The third coÌ„sideration Stap. fol. 3. b. The 4. consideration Stap. fol. â—… b. The. 5. consideration Stap. fol. 3. b. The 6. consideration Stap. fol. 3. b. Stap. fol. 4. a. Sta. fol. 3. a. b. Stap. fol. 4. â—… Stap. fol. 4. a. Stap. fol. 4. a. Stap. fol. 4. a. Stap. fol. 4. b. Stap. fol. 4. b. Stap. fol. 4. b. Winchester SecoÌ„d diuisioÌ„ Stapl fol. 5. a. Fol. 6. a. b. Feckenham Winchester Fol. DiuisioÌ„ 1. St. fol. 6. b. St. fol. 7. a. St. fol. 7. a. Stap. 7. a. Stap. 7. b. Stap. 7. b. The title of L. Bishop Sta. fol. 7. b. Stap. S. â—… The papistes argument of B. succession Galat. 2. Stap. fol. 8. â—… 1. Tim. 4. 1. Tim. 3. Hebr. 13. Canon 6. Stap. fol. 8. b Stap. 10. b. The disputation at West An. 1. Eliz. Stap. 12. a. Stap. 12. a. Stap. 12. a. b Stap. 12. b. Stap. 13. a. Stap. 13. a. Psal. 95. Stap. 13. a. Stap. fol. 13. a. Fol. 13.
¶ The Supremacie of Christian Princes ouer all persons throughout their dominions in all causes so wel Ecclesiastical as temporall both against the Counterblast of Thomas Stapleton replying on the Reuerend father in Christe Robert Bishop of VVinchester and also Against Nicolas Sanders his Uisible Monarchie of the Romaine Church touching this controuersie of the Princes Supremacie Ansvvered by Iohn Bridges The Princes charge in his institution to ouersee the direction of Gods lawe DEVTER 17. After he shall be settled in the throne of his kingdom he shal write out for himself in a volume the copie of this Law taking the same of the Priests of the Leuitical tribe and he shal haue it with him reade it al the days of his life that he may learn to fear the Lord his God and keepe the wordes and ceremonies of him which are written in this law c. ¶ PRINTED AT LONDON by Henrie Bynneman for Humfrey Toye 1573. · HONI · SOIT · QVI · MAL · Y · PENSE · E. R ¶ To the moste high and moste excellent Princesse Elizabeth by the grace of God Queene of Englande France and Ireland defender of the Faith of Christ and in earth next vnder God of the Church of England and Ireland in all Ecclesiastical and temporall causes the supreme Head Gouernor ALbeit most Gracious Soueraigne I might be vvoorthily noted of presumption in dedicating these my trauailes to your Maiestie as vvel for the basenesse of my skill calling as for the vnreuerent demeanour of the aduersaries that here I ansvvere vnvvorthie vvhom your Highnesse should deigne to loke vpon yet bothe bicause the matter entreateth moste of a Princes estate and that vpon the chiefest point therof belonging in general to al Christian Princes but in especiall to your Maiestie against vvhom they chiefly direct their malice and in maintenaunce vvhereof your Maiestie direct your gouernement and herein haue giuen a mirror to al christian Princes to folovv and be partakers in their common vveales of the lyke blessings wherwith God hath beautified your Highnesse and established youre authoritie I thought it therfore not vnfit setting my self and them aside with all such by matters as incidently fal out in disputation betvvixt the Bishop and master Feckenham of me these my aduersaries â–ª to conâ—…ecrate this argumente of Supremacie to youre moste excellent Maiestie as to vvhom chiefly in your dominions next vnder Christ it dothe pertaine VVhich your Highnesse so nobly maintaines by practise of godlie gouernment hovve euer we by the vvord and argument do defend it There is no controuersie at this day betvvixt vs and the enimies of the gospel more impughed thaÌ„ this one of the Supremacie nor more bookes compiled more libels scattered more vaunts made of truth on their partie more sclaunders deuised of oure doctrine and your Maiesties Title more secrete conspiracies and open treasons against your Royal person and state of the Realme than our aduersaries make only for this Supremacie Shall Sathan then vse al this double diligence in promoting the pride tyrannie of his Antichrist the man of sinne the foreigne vsurper of all Christian kingdoms and shall the children of god be negligent in defence of the kingdom of Christ of the Lordes anoynted of the dutifull office and lavvfull authoritie of their naturall Soueraigne â–ª Other meanes I graunt may be had to suppresse their furious dealing And God bee blessed therefore that hath furnished your Maiestie vvith povver couÌ„sell authoritie lavv vvisedome learning vertue courage and al other Princely habilities â–ª suffiâ—…iet to maintein your Highnesse Title protect that portion of Christes Church vvhich he hath committed to your most Gracious gouernment in peace and truth prosperously 〈◊〉 your enemies VVherein as your Maiestie hath euer most zâ—…lously sought and set forth the glorie of god â—…e hath so glorified you again as he hath promised 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 glorificabo that your highnesse may say as king Dauid sayd â–ª he hath deliuered you out of your enimies hands and defeated all their purposes he hath established you a kingdom here on earth in peace and righteousnesse and hath prepared in heauen a Kingdom for you in glorie and eternitie Novv although this be so cleeâ—…e that euen the enimies themselues coÌ„fesse God vvorks vvith you God fights for you God hath takeÌ„ your hart into his handes that haue taken his quarel into yours yet sith the 〈◊〉 do mutteâ—… sclander your Highnesse to take suche kind of GouernmeÌ„t on you as vvere not coÌ„petent as the Pope had vvont to do your Highnes is furthest from if this your claime be not proued to be grouÌ„dedon Gods vvord if those enuious be not coÌ„â—…inced by euident argumeÌ„ts of the seripture al the foresaid prosperitie is couÌ„ted but earthly blessings and such as other vvorldly Princes haue All the due authoritie is 〈◊〉 but extorted violence neither is the mouth of the adoersarie stopped neyther is the mind of the subiect satisfied And therfore vvhen al is don â–ª there is no better meanâ—… to may 〈◊〉 this Title than euen by learning 〈◊〉 for to me it to the vttermost and to fight vvitâ—… the vveapon of Gods vvord for it vvhicheâ—…s sharpeâ—… to vvoâ—…nde the aduersaries heart and conscience than any tvvo edged svvord But some vvil say this is sufficiently done by otherâ—… learned labours vvhen both in the dayes of your Maiesties Father of most renoumed memorie euen the best learned of our aduersaries did not only confesse it but vvrote so effectually in defence therof that shamefully aftervvard reuolting their guiltie conscieÌ„cebore vvitnesse against themselues nor they coulde euer ansvvere their ovvne vvritings And also after that in the godlie gouernment of youre Highnesse blessed Brother many other more excellent fathers in vvriting did confirme it And novv lastly in this your Maiesties happie Reigne diuers famous and lerned men to the further confirming of the godlie and confounding the enimie therein haue vvritten vppon this argument Yet sith oure aduersaries haue neuer doone thervvith but sette on a freshe lyke to him that vvhen in vvrastling he was euer cast of pride and vainglorie vvoulde neuer acknovvledge that he had any fall I thought good to make euident to all your Maiesties subiects euen to the enimies themselues the places vvhere they shamefully fel and lie stil in their errour rather than to vvrastle vvith such vvarblers And yet if they start vp again to trie a further pluck vvith them and by the strength of Gods inuincible truth so to ouerthrovv them that as fast as they boast cauill and sclaunder the truth of our cause and the goodnesse of your Maiesties quarell shall shevve it selfe the cleerer although the simplier handled A number of other vvhom I knovve coulde haue done it farre better vvho may also at their discretions further trauaile in it And in deede vvhere the most of this vvas done a good vvhile sith it vvas layde aside thus long expecting if any other vvould attempte it
the people ignorant least they should discerne them And ye haue sayd of your hypocritiall errours of your â—…ayned myracles and legends of lies latebunt quam diu pâ—…rerunt vâ—…lebunt apud â–ª 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mendaciâ—… The ignorant people will ostéeme such lying to â—…es And therfore we may well returne your conclusion on your selfe that ye be those false Prophets and lying masters such as Saint Peter spake of bringing in wicked and damnable sects God giue them grace which are deceyued by you so well to knowe you as we that do examine your writings haue good cause to know you And thus your wordes of course fathered as ye call it in a luskie lane of some indiuiduum vagum a certaine Protestant of late dayes and for witnesse hereof aske your fellow if it be not so howe well in euery poynt they appeare that as they say the foxe was the first finder to be your owne tootoo open sayinges and doynges to charge vs withall a Gods name hardily let all the worlde be iudge His obiecting of stragling from the matter fo 4. a. Of false alleaging his Authours wordes fol. 5. b. Of omitting and concealing circumstances fol. 7. a. Of deepe silence to aunswere the pith of the matter fol. 8. a. Of obiecting fleshly pleasures fol. 8. b. Of quarelling that our Bishops be no Bishops fol. 9. a. b. Of passing good maners for misreporâ—…ing n. a. Of obiecting conspiracies and sedition fol. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. Remoue them with a writte of returne to the Papists themselues and then they are fully answered This lo at the least sayth M. St. fol. 37. b. heresie worketh in the Church that it maketh the truth to be more certenly knowne and more firmely and stedfastly afterwarde kept so sayth S. Augustine the matter of the Trinitie was neuer well discussed till the Arrians barked agaynst it c. This is truer M. St. than eyther ye wene or would The experience whereof is dayly to be séene in the Papists defending their errors and impugning the truth in their subtile practises in their tyrannicall inquisitions and cruel torments yea euen in this yours and your fellowes volumes striuing to obscure and deface the truth but all these steps notwithstanding the truth is and shal be more and more set forth the Popish errors â—…sse and lesse begutle vs and the kingdome of Antichrist detected and forsaken Fol. 40. a. M. St. telleth vs that S. Greg. Nazianzen saith Verum est ê™ vnum est mendaciuÌ„ auteÌ„ est multiplex The thing which is true is alwayes one like vnto it selfe whereas the lie the cloked and counterfeyt thing is in it selfe variable and diuerse By the which rule here giuen of so learned and graue a father I am here put to knowledge that the Papists not being content with the onely worde of God alwayes one and like it selfe but ioyning thereto mens variable and diuerse vnwritten verities That the Papistes being not content with the true spirituall worship of one God alwayes one like himselfe not with one mediator Iesus Christ but yéelding spirituall worship to Saints and Saints pictures besides God and making other variable and diuerse mediators to God besides Christ that the Papists being not content with the only merites satisfaction of Christs death always one and like itselfe â–ª but deuising variable and diuerse Masses Diriges Pilgrimages and satisfactions besides being not content with the flat scripture alwayes one and like it selfe that testifieth only faith in christ to be the meanes of appreheÌ„ding our iustification but adding variable diuerse infinit workâ—… of their own to deserue their iustification by being not content with the only title profession of Christianitie alwayes one 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 but sâ—…tting vp variable diuerse feas professioÌ„s religions names besides be but cloked counterleyy liers â–ª as Greg Nazâ—…n hath most truly said And thus ye sée M. St. how you citing falsly this sentence to proue the â—…variable 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe on â–ª the thumbes Fol. 40. b. Let the King sayth master Stapleton reode on Gods name not onely that booke but all the Bible beside it is a worthie studie for him but let him beware least this sweete honie be not turned into poyson to him c. What wordes are here that we say not also yea his permission of Princes to read and studie the Bible â–ª is our most earnest prayer and exhortation And they whatsoeuer they would seeme nowe to pretende bicause they can no longer keepe it vnder their bushell it is full sore agaynst their heart that Princes should read or studie it Otherwise why suffred they not Princes to giue them selues to so woorthie and commendable a studie heretofore And nowe that they can kéepe it in no longer who it is that turneth this sweete honie of Gods worde into poyson is easie to iudge Whether hée that giueth bread to the hungrie bringing forth the whole loafe of the onely pure wheate and willeth them that are to be fedde therewith to sée to view to féelâ—… the whole and in seasonable time breaketh it to his fellow seruants before their faces that they may fully refresh their hungrie seules or he that beateth his fellowe seruaunts hydeth the loafe from them and if he must néedes giue them some mingleth the pure wheate with his owne branne and that worse is with Darnell and more of that by thrée halues than of the wheate and will néedes haue the receyuer blindfolded nor will suffer him to take it in his owne handes but by gobbet meale thrust it into his mouth nor will let the partie sée what in this sort he crammes him with as though he were worse than the Capon in a coupe and yet for all this will beare him in hande it is the true bread Whether of these twaine be the likelier to giue this poysoned bread no man that hath any witte but will giue a shrewde ayme As for false translations false dangerous and damnable gloses wherewith master St. sayth we haue corrupted and watred the same and made it as it were of pleasant wine most soure vinegar it is so euident on his owne part that the Papistes haue so vsed the Scripture and that so shamefully that it séemeth he is past shame that he dare once mencion it and yet he obiecteth it to vs that admit the expresse scripture without any gloses at all Take heede to your selfe Maister Horne for I say to you that you and your fellowes teache false and superstitious religion manie and detestable heresies and so withall playne idolatrie Blot out these wordes Maister Horne and put in Maister Stapleton and then it is truely sayd Although wée not only say it but proue it also And therfore you and your felowes M. Stapleton had nede to take hede thereto fol 42. a. VVe say you are wicked deprauers of religion c. VVe say ye are as great enimies as euer the Church of Christ had
to forsake this religion In the first parte he sheweth that Master Fekenham could not answere the B. him selfe but he sheweth no other reason thereof than this seing his state is such Secondly that the cause why he more than any other of his complices tooke vpon him to answere this least it should appeare to come of his owne ambitious busiositie was only at the request of some of his friends he will not tell of whom for so perhaps be might detect him selfe to be a disciple of BalaaÌ„s marke hyred for lucre to curse with his cursed and blackmouthed Rhetorike the Churche and truth of god And bicause hereby be would haue the reader couertly to vnderstande what kinne a great clerke he is of what terrour to his enemies and estimation among his friendes to entreate him more than any of all the rest to atchieue this enterprise he telleth vs he was not very willing therto bicause forsooth he purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially M. Ievvell for a season to rest and stande to his owne defence if any would charge him Wherein he would not haue ye forget what a lustie prouoker of sharpe aduersaries he is And although for two causes he was lothe to medle therewith first for that many things in this booke pertaine to certaine priuate doinges betwixt M. Feckenham and M. Horne of the vvhich saith he I had no skill secondly for that a number of such priuate matters touching the state of the realme occurred as to them vvithout farder aduice I could not throughly shape any ansvvere yet notwithstaÌ„ding all these thinges that neyther touched M. Stapleton nor he had any skill of them nor could shape any ansvvere to them he must néedes intrude and busie him self to shape some mishapen ansvvere his fingers itched since none of al his sharpe aduersaries would once deigne to answere him to prouoke the B. in these things and where his skill should faile rather than his will should faile he would furnish out his answere with his foresaide common places in which he hath a very good skill and grace As for the residue of his wantes aftervvarde it so hapned saith he that by suche as I haue good cause to credite there came to my knovvledge such instructions as vvell for the one as for the other that I vvas better vvilling to employ some paines and studie in this behalfe How these instructions hapned to him we must not vnderstande all for feare it fall out as they say that asking his felow if he be a theeâ—… two false companions néede no broker As it will I feare me fall out Master Stapleton in the scanning of your false informations whereof your selfe were vnskilfull ye saye but ye haue good cause to credite them were the more vvilling to employ your paines and studie therein and good reason ye should credite them that make any thing for you For why they be credible men of your owne partie be it true or false they tell you recke not you let them beare the blame if they lie you did but tell it for them Why should ye not therefore employ your paines and studie to painte it out that the more willingly since they do paie well for it Now M Stapleton being wel instructed though he promise to take the vvillinger paines and studie in this behalf yet must ye not presuppose that he taketh this vpoÌ„ him for that saith he I thinke my selfe better able than other but for that I vvould not it should seeme there lacked any good vvill in me either to satisfie the honest desire of my friendes or to helpe and releue such as by suche kinde of bookes are already pitifully inuegled and deceaued or to stay other yet standing that this booke be not at any time for lacke of good aduertisement a stumbling stocke vnto them What soeuer here M. Sta. ye pretende of your forward good will who so coÌ„ferreth here with your CoÌ„mon place of boastings crakes may easily returne your own saying on your selfe that these are but vvordes of course to saue your poore honestie least men should sée detest your ambitious vaine glory herein Neyther doth your preposterous zeale couer it any whit except this be to helpe relieue a stuÌ„bler where scarce a straw laye in his waye before to tumble a stocke into his path to make him fall downe right Now that M. St. hath shewed the occasions that pricked him forward to set on the B. He secondly sheweth the manner of his answere Wherein first after his ordinarie crakings of his poore labour of his diligence of his vvhole and full replie he excuseth his long tediouse babling vvherein I rather feare saith he I haue saide to much than to litle which in déede he hath good cause to feare as his Common places do shal declare And yet would he haue euery word put in replied vnto him selfe in his owne coÌ„science hauing sayd to much alreadie But to excuse this faulte he hath a sufficient reason at hande that tediousnes is good to make al perfect and therefore he had rather be tediouse than shorte Thus hauing handsomly excused the matter he secondly sheweth the order of the Bishops booke M. Hornes ansvvere as he calleth it resteth in tvvo partes Why M. St. how call you it may it not thinke you be called an answere that answereth the demaunde or request of an other but as you wrangle péeuishly about the name so that curiouse fine pate of yours disdeyneth the playnâ—… and simple name of an answere or replie or any other vsuall worde as ye pretende to auoyde confusion but in déede to shew some singuler conceite and excelleÌ„cie of your booke which so finely ye Entitle A counterblaste to say the truth a blast not worth a counter to counterblowe and all to blast the Bishops answers with all The two partes that he deuides the Bishops booke into are these In the first saith he and chiefest he playeth the opponent laying forth out of the holy Scriptures both Olde and Nevve out of Councels both generall and nationall out of Histories Chronicles of all couÌ„tries running his race froÌ„ Constantine the great dovvne to Maximilian great grandfather to the Emperour that novv liueth taking by the vvay the Kings of France of Spaigne and of our owne countrie of England since the conquest all that euer he coulde finde by his ovvne studie and helpe of his friendes partly for profe of the like gouernmeÌ„t of Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes as the oth attributeth novv to the crovvne of Englande partely for the disproofe of the Popes supremacie vvhich the othe also principally extendeth to exclude In the secoÌ„d and later parte he playeth the defendaÌ„t taking vpon him to ansvvere and to satisfie certaine of M. Feck â–ª argumeÌ„ts and scruples of coÌ„scieÌ„ce vvherby he is moued not to take the othe Hovv vvell he hath played both his partes â–ª the perusall of this
most herein ye would haue him either beleue first ground him self on your false principles or else would ye sâ—…e beshrew him for traueling one whit therin and fal as fast to besech him to let the matter alone except he wil before hand on your word beleue that this supreme gouernmeÌ„t belongeth to your pope And hauing so gotteÌ„ his grauÌ„t on this which is the coÌ„trouersie it selfe theÌ„ ye besech the gentle reader most diligently to labor trauell in this controuersie But the reader may sée with no great trauell for y matter that as ye â—…etract your duty froÌ„ your prince so ye ascribe a great deale to much to your pope For where to win the reader to your partie ye say that all controuersies in effect depend vpon this Ergo admit this admit al deny this deny al the antecedent in déed in your popish church is true Where they make al articles of religioÌ„ to depend vpoÌ„ him But in christs church it is true of none other but of christ alone Upon whoÌ„ being the corner sâ—…one rock al the building is fouÌ„ded ariseth in whoÌ„ being the only chiefe vniuersal hâ—…d all the members haue lyfe all controuersies in effect depeÌ„d Admit his supreme authoritie admit all his religion Denie his supreme authoritie denie all his religion But it is not so of any limited and secondarie head or supreme gouernour in any particuler Churche of Christians That all articles or any article of fayth dependes on the Princes gouernement but the Princes gouernemeÌ„t depends on them to ouersee them duetifully set foorth And when the Reader séeth this that the Prince claymeth not an absolute Supreme gouernement and that it is your Pope onely that taketh this absolute Supromacie on him and you that giue it him then I trust the reader will not be so wonne with your fayre words which make fooles fayne as he wil abhorre your slaunders on your Soueraigne and detest the open iniurie ye offer to Chryst the onely head to make all Articles depende on your Popes supreme authoritie Nowe whereas for this ambitiouse clayme of your Pope ye alleage here nothing to fortifie the same ye thinke ye shall winne it yet at the least this way if with dispitefull raylings ye may beforehande discredite vs to the Reader and so winne credite to your selfe thereby Ye argue thus The Protestantes whom odieusly and falsly ye deuide into many sects are at mutuall and mortall enemitie among them selues but al conspire agaynst the primacie of the Pope Ergo a good resolution once had in this poynt stayeth and setleth the conscience as vvith a sure and strong anker from the insurgies and tempests of all sects and schismes This argument might as well make for Mahomets religion or any other neuer so false as for the Popes to reason from the aduersaries diuision among them selues or agréement of them selues agaynst his religion to a truthe and perfection in his false religion And thoughe the argument faile alike bothe in the Pope and the Turke yet it holdeth in Christes primacie and onely in him agaynst Pope Turke Sectarie or any other deuided from him Chiefly agaynst the Popish church wherin are diuers infinite sects errours and al at mutuall and mortall enmitie amongst them selues and yet all conspire with the Pope agaynst Christ and his truth Ergo a good resolution once had in Christ his truth stayeth and setleth the conscience as with a sure and strong anker from the insurgies and tempests of all sects and schismes This argument thus framed had bene better and truer and not to make the Popes supremacie or the exalting of any creature in heauen or earth to be the anker holde and stay of our consciences besides Christ and his truthe Which sithence all Papistes do by this your confession they can haue no good resolution resoluing them selues amisse leaning to a broken Réede Where they say Pax pax peace peace non est pax impijs dicit dominus there is no peace of conscience at all nor any sure ankerholde to stay vnto Maledictus qui confidit in boinine poâ—…it carnem brachium suum And therefore if Protestants yea al Sectaries or Schismatikes though they can not agrée amongst them selues yet if they all hate thys moste Antichristian doctrine to grounde their faythe on man no meruayle though they hate it it is so wicked and detestable that euen good and badde and all abhorre it After he hath taken this pro confesso that the anker holde of conscience consisteth in setling him selfe on the Popes primacie he reasoneth on the contrarie effecte Contrary vvise they that be once circumuented and decea ued in this Article are carryed and tossed vvith the raging vvaues and flouds of euery errour and heresie vvithoute stay or setling euen in their ovvne errours True in déede Master Stapleton if ye had rightly shewed withall what it had bene to be circumuented and deceyued in this Article otherwyse ye doe but lyke an vnskilfull and harebrayned Pilote herein that to auoyde the rocke thinketh him selfe sure and safe when he hath caste hys anker on the quickesandes or rather euen in the goulfes mouthe and so I warrant him also as you saye he shall not néede long to feare to bée caryed and tosted wyth the insurgies and tempestes of the ragyng waues and flouddes but soone be swalowed vp and drowned in them But Master Stapleton not considering or not mynding to warne the reader of this to much trusting to a false Pilote but to terrify him further wyth feare of forsakyng this Popishe ankerholde and to confirme thys argument of the contrarie effecte reasoneth from the instancies of dyuers ensamples And first of the Gréeke Churche arguing thus The Grecians forsooke the vnitie of the romaine Church Ergo they fell after to be Arrians Macedonians Nestorians Eutichians c. and in conclusion fell into the Turkishe captiuitie This argument besides other faultes hath chiefly two hoamely and foule fallations that make it vâ—…cious The one à secundum quid ad simpliciter from the Churche of Rome limitted to that tyme that it was not stayned with those errours to the Churche of Rome simplie that since that time hath falne it selfe partlye into some of those errours partly into other as great and many worse The seconde fallacion is à non causa vt causa for theyr fall was into those heresies not bicause they acknowledged not the Bishop of Rome to be their supreme heade for therein they had played like the Flownder that lept out of the frying panne into the fire but bicause they forsooke and peruerted the worde of God as the Papists since haue done and their â—…ares itched and aâ—…iended to the inuentions doctrines errors of men to lying masters as the papists haue done also This was the proper cause of their fall into these errors and of the Papists fal into the like or greater And where M. St. ioyneth to his
now Luther can take no place amongst vs he obiecteth another vnto vs one Andreas Modrenius And yet his saying also maketh God wote ful little for the Papists herein Who saith there ought to be some one to be taken for the chiefe and supreme head in the whole Church in all causes ecclesiasticall What conclude ye M. St. herevpon Ergo it must be your Pope or no christian prince And here as though all these were not yet sufficient testimonies ye bring in Caluin But since ye doe it but to fill vp your booke with that common allegation of your side which being also not omitted of M. FeckeÌ„ham is to be referred to be propounded and answered vnto in his proper place I therefore remit you thither Onely to that ye say he so spitefully handled King Henrie the eyght as hee neuer handled the Pope more spitefully I aunswere this is but your spitefull lie to deface the Protestantes Else why doe ye not proue the same And as for your Pope it is euident also he neuer handled him spitefully but onely reproued his vyces and errours by the worde of god But howe spitefullie your Pope and popishe Prelates so farre as they coulde handeled him and howe spitefully they handle all Protestantes that they maye once sette their spitefull spirituall fingers vppon all the worlde doeth sée And yet the silie Protestantes muste beare all the blame it is not ynoughe for them to beare the iniuryes This lesson ye learned of the Diuell of Dowgate to bite and whine also or rather ye doe as Esops Woolfe did chalenge the poore Lambe for troubling his water and to misuse him spitefully but thys mercifull Woolfe deuoured this spitefull Lambe He vrgeth vs farther in great outcryes with a sentence of one Anthonie Gilbie our own Countriman The summe of his argument is this Anthonie Gilbie an Englishe man speaketh verie vnreuerently and vnreligiously of King Henrie the eight Ergo the Protestantes now in England whatsoeuer they pretende and dissemble in wordes in heart mislike the Quéenes maiesties gouernment How doth this follow M. St and yet ye wrest Anthonie Gilbies sentence also He speaketh not of this supremacie neyther but in plaine wordes of such a supremacie in England as the Pope chalengeth all ouer Christendome Though therefore he be greatly to be blamed for his vnreuerent speach and for his vnaduised mistaking of hys Princes lawfull authoritie yet is he not to be belyed as though he spoke of all kinde of supremacie in all princes simplie It is a shame as they say M. St. euen to belie the Diuell But sée how the matter falleth out Ye haue brought Anthonie Gilbyes sentence agaynst vs and the Quéenes maiesties authoritie Haue ye not wel holpeÌ„ your self if this sentence also make flat agaynst your pope For if as he sayth therin truely Christ ought onely to be the head of the church the placing of any other displaceth him then is not the pope the head also but the placing of him displaceth christ But the Pope chalengeth to be the heade of the Churche also which our prince doth not Ergo not our prince but your Pope displaceth christ And thus thinking to beate vs ye still make a rodde for your owne Popes tale And here sodenly calling to mind how far he hath straied in forraging out these sentences he returneth a little to the Bishop setting on him for calling the Pope the Papists god in earth the archeheretike of Rome and that M. Fec would haue him reigne in the Queenes place Besturring himselfe with a heape of arguments to defende his Pope Besides his scoffes raylings and other rhetoricall floures quoted in his common places But first for his Pope sayth he VVe make no God of the Pope and sometimes perhaps no good man neyther In déede M. Stap. ye should haue more than both your handes full to make your Pope sometimes a good man â–ª ye néede not put perhaps to the matter It would pose him selfe and all the Diuels in hell and that oftentymes to worke such a miracle on him as that man of sinne that childe of perdition and aduersarie of God to become a good man. But yet I say beware howe ye speake such buggishe words of him as not to be a good man. Whose wil is law whose law is all power in heauen in earth in hell Nowe can this be an ill man Beware least this come to his eares M. Stap. and withall that ye make him not a God in earth Are not you of theyr religion that beléeue and confesse this principle 〈◊〉 deus noster Papa Our Lorde God the Pope Yea and as some say he is Plusque deuâ—… If ye be beware his thunderbolt If ye be not whie defende ye him and his errors against the truth of God whie forsake you your most vertuous Prince to follow a straunger and that an yll man but you answere And yet we reuerence him for his office and authoritie that Christ so amply and honourably gaue him for preseruation of vnitie and quietnesse in his Church That ye reuerence him in déede and that is more adore him to is manifest But the patent of that his office and authoritie that ye crake Christe so amplie and so honorably gaue your Pope ye shewe none nor where nor how nor when he gaue it Only ye tell vs of the endes wherefore he gaue it For the preseruation of vnitie and quietnes in his Church But if these were the endes M. St. he hath forfeited his patent long ago That not onely disagreeth from the expresse wordes and commauÌ„dement of Christ but swerueth one Pope from another And how chance he setteth his own scholemeÌ„ his Canonists at no better vnitie his Thomists and his Scotistes his sects of Religions at no better quietnes than a tâ—…ade a snake togither how chance he agreeth no better with his Bishops his own colledge of cardinals How chance he falleth out so often with Emperours and kings setteth Princes their subiectes by the eares togither why fighteth he so fast with both his swordes like king Arthures dubble sworded knight why had he rather at this day that al christendome were in a broyle so much blâ—…ud were cruelly shedde than he would relent one inche of his honour one penie of his filthie gaine one iâ—…te of his errors Idolatries false dectrines that eueÌ„ are coÌ„fessed of his own secte giue place to the worde of God is this his preseruing of vnitie and quietnes in the Church of Christ or had he any such patent giuen him hath he not lost and lost it againe and will ye still reuerence and adore him for it Secondly where the Bishop calleth your Pope the arch-heretike of Rome Your wisedome say you with like truth also appeareth in that ye call the Pope the Archeheretike of Rome naming no man and so your wordes so liberally waÌ„tonly cast out do as well comprehende
to go vp to Ierusalem and there to be tryed in the assemblie of the highe Priestes So Athanasius abandoned the councels at Lyre Smirna and Ephesus â–ª So Maximus abandoned the Councell at Antioche So Pauiinus abandoned the Councel at Milayne So Chrisostome abandoned the Councell at Constantinople And so we abandoned the Popes violent councels at Rome and Trident that we might say with Dauid Non consedâ—… iâ—… consilio 〈◊〉 cum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non introâ—…bo odi ecclesiâ—…m maligâ—…atium cum impijs non â—…edebo I haue not sitten in the counsell of vanitie I will not enter in with wicked doers I haue hated the Churche of the malignant and I will not sitte with the wicked These Councels we haue abandoned M. Stay. but no generall Councels wherein all things are tryed to be truthe or heresies by the touche of the worde of God and not by the Popes the councels or any creatures dâ—…cree besides Omnis homo mendax euery man is a lyer and the worde of God is onely the truthe of doctrine And therefore in all Councels we must crie with the Prophet Adlâ—…gem ad testimonium Let them râ—…nne to the lawe of God to the testimonie of his worde quod si â—…on dâ—…xerint iâ—…xta verbum hoc non erâ—…t eis â—…x 〈◊〉 If the Councell declare any thing to be heresie not according to the worde of God the morning light the 〈◊〉 of righteousnesse shall not shine on them but they shall erre in the shadowe of death But sayth Ambrose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs eâ—…rare non possis followe the â—…pture that thou mayest not erre And if the Councell do not follow them we are made free from following yea licenâ—…ed to abandon and accurse those Councels by your owne Canons Sâ—… quis prohâ—…t vobâ—… quod a Domino 〈◊〉 est rursâ—…s imperâ—…t fieri quod Dominus prohibet exeâ—…rabilis sit ab omnibus qui dilâ—…nt Deum If any body forbid you that that is commanded of the Lorde and agayne commaunde that thing to be done that the Lorde hath forbidden lâ—…t him be accursed of all that loue the Lorde And your Abbote Panormitane willeth vs so to estéeme of your Councels without the scripture that plus credendum vel simpliâ—… lâ—…co 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 qâ—… toti simul conâ—… we muste more beleeue euen a simple lay man alleaging the scripture than all the whole Councell togither And your famous doctor Iohn Gersoâ—… Chauncelour of the vniuersitie of Paris sayth Prima veritâ—…s 〈◊〉 stat c. this truthe standeth first to weete that any simple man beeing not authorized may be so excellently learned in holy writ that we muste more beleeue his assertion in a case of doctrine than the Popes declaration bicause it is euident that we must more beleeue the Gospell than the Pope Neither sayth he thus for the Pope alone but euen for your Councels yea for generall Councels in sacris c. VVe must more beleeue an excellent learned man in the scriptures and alleaging the catholike authoritie than we muste beleeue euen a generall Councell Thus by your owne doctors yea by the Pope him selfe that sayth no proofe oughte to be admitted agaynst the Scripture we may and muste abandon your Councels wherein many things besides and many thinges expressely agaynst the Scripture are determined for truthe and the expresse truthe of the scripture is condemned for heresie And therefore where ye say we renounce them onely for this cause bicause they grounde not them selues on the authoritie of the Scriptures ye shewe a good cause to cleare vs of all heresies and errors and shewe sufficient cause withall why we admitte not your Councels nowe your obstinate frowarde heresies to be suche that ye can not aâ—…ouche for them nor defende them by the holy Scriptures The authoritie whereof if those your Councels doe adâ—…itte as did the olde generall Councels then the clause in the Act of ParliameÌ„t doth no more abandon your Councels than it reiecteth those foure firste or any other that grounde their proues thereon But ye haue some better reason belike why ye set vp this fourth markâ—… of abandoning the Pope and his councels to be exemplified in the olde Testament Partly and most of all say you I say it for an other clause in the Acte of Parliament enacting that no foreigne prince spirituall or temporall shall haue any authoritie or superioritie in this realme in any spirituall cause Either your fingers itche master Stapl. at this clause wherwith ye be pidling so often before ye come to the proper place where this is handled more at large Or else ye do vse the figure of anticipation so mutch and so impertinently to puffe vp your counterblast withall But were it the chiefest cause why ye set vp this marke bicause we reiecte all foraigne authoritie then hath the Bishop hit this marke also at the full euen in all these examples Excepte you can on the other side proue that these godly Princes admitted in their dominions the authoritie of any foraigne Prelate ouer them Of which till you shal be able to bring profe the commaunding and directing of their owne priestes as is sayde before yea euen of the highest Priest of all is argument sufficient to inferre that they admitted not any other straunge Priest ouer them all straunge Priests then béeing heathen Idolaters and therefore this clause of foraigne prelates is also by the Bishop out of the olde Testament fully proued But say you The Popes authoritie ecclesiasticall is no more foraigne to this Realme than the Catholike faythe is foraygne You say so M. Stapl. I will beare ye witnesse but ye shoulde proue it and not say so onely Neuerthelesse be it not foraigne then is he not excluded by that clause nor ye néede so storme thereat that it should be the cause moste of all why ye haue sayde all this and nowe ye lyke it vvell inough saying And yet mighte the Pope reforme vs well inough for any thing before rehearsed Why rehearsed ye this clause then and found most fault therwith since those words hinder nothing his clayme Sauing that say you he is by expresse words of the statute otherwise excluded How chaunce your quarell then M. Stap. is not at that exclusion But wilily ye sawe well inough that he is exempted euen in that he is a foraigne powre And had his name not bene exempted yet the clause that before tâ—…kled ye so muche though now ye would make so light thereat did fully exclude your Pope bicause he is a foraygne power Or elsefull fondly ye quarell moste at that wherat ye had no cause Yes say you there is a cause why I mislike this clause agaynst foraigne authoritie For then I pray you if any generall Councel be made to reforme our misbeleefe if we wil not receiue it who shall force vs And so ye see we be at libertie to receiue
that said there was no difference betweene Priest and Bishop betweene him that fasted and that did not fast and that the sacrifice for the dead was fruitlesse Howe say you to Iouinian that denied virginitie to haue any excellencie aboue Matrimonie or any speciall rewarde at Gods handes to the Arians that denied the miracles done at Saints tombes to be true Miracles and that the Martyres can not cast out the Diuels and relieue them that be possessed To the Bogomiles that said the Diuels sate at the Saints tombes and did wonders there to illude and deceyue the people to cause the people to worship them To Berengarius condemned in diuerse Councels first for denying of the Real presence in the Sacrament of the Altare and then for denying the Transubstantiation To the Paulicians that said these woordes of Christ take eate this is my bodie are not to be vnderstanded of his bodie or the bread and wine vsed at the celebration of our Lordes maundie but of the holy Scriptures â–ª which the priestes should take at Christes hande and deliuer and distribute to the people To Claudius and Vigilantius that denied the inuocation of Saintes and enueighed against the blessed reliques and the vse of lightes and other ceremonies of the Church To the Massilians and other heretikes saying that concupiscence as a sinne remaineth in vs after holy baptisine And bicause ye shall not say I suppresse conceale or obscure the chiefe and most notable persons of your auncestrie how say ye to the Emperours Philippicus Leo Constantinus condemned with their adherentes by the seuenth general Councel at Nice that villayned by defacing breaking and burning the images of all the holy hallowes of Christ and Christes to to whome for your more honour and glorie I adioyne the Emperour Iulianus the Apostata VVho as ye do in your bookes and pulpits cried out vppon the Christians O ye wretched men that worship the wood of the Crosse setting vp the signe of it vppon your foreheads and dores you therefore that are of the wisest sorte are worthy to be hated and the residue to be pitied that treading after your steppes come to such a kinde of wretchednesse To the Pelagians affirming that children not Baptised shal be saued and yet are your Maisters in this point worse than the Pelagians aswell for that some of them haue saide that some infantes though vnbaptized shal be damned and some other though vnbaptized shal be saued And some of them especially Caluine and other Sacramentaries say that they shall come without Baptisme to the kingdome of heauen which the Pelagians durst not say but that they should haue the life euerlasting putting a difference but peeuishlie betwixt these two And if ye thinke the race of your worthie generation is not fetched high inough we wil mount higher and as high as may be euen to Simon Magus him selfe Of whome Marcion and Manicheus and after long and honorable succession your Patriarches Luther and Caluine haue learned their goodly doctrine against free will. Yea to touche the very fundation and wellspring of this your new Gospell which altogether is grouÌ„ded vpon Iustification without good works in that also ye draw very nigh to the said Simon Magus In all this here is nothing els but the heaping vp of an impertinent sâ—…launderous and maliciouse rable partely of Heretikes partely of no Heretikes some of them falsely belied most of them falsely applied eyther they defending no such things or some of these us Heresies nor any of their Heresies mainteyned of vs. First for the Arianisme of Aerius with whom M. Stapleton beginneth would God the Papistes had not as much defaced the glory of Christ as did the Ariaus but he findeth no faulte with them therefore He vpbraydeth to vs thrée other pointes First that Aerius said there was no difference betweene Priest and Bishop and ye aâ—…e M. Stapleton how say we to him What soeuer we say to him we haue first to say to you that sauing the reuerence of your Priesthood there is no difference betweene you and a lier to obiect Aerius herein to vs Whereas ye know well inough our Church doth acknowledge in the ministerie a difference of Deacon and Elder from a Bishop although not according to your Popish orders For as neyther Epiphanius nor yet Augugustine quoted by you speaketh there of any sacrificing Priest so he neuer knewe any such Pontificall prelates as your Popishe Churche bréedeth And yet of those that were euen then in Epiphanius time and of their difference from the Elders or Priestes if ye know not how it came Hierome that liued in the same age will tell you or if ye haue not redde him your owne Canons will tell ye what he saithe I dem est ergo Presbyter qui Episcopus antequam Diabols studia c. An Elder or Priest therefore is the same that a Bishop and before that the studies of the Diuell were made in Religion and that the people saide I holde of Paule I of Apollo I of Cephas the Churches were gouerned by the common Counsell of the Elders but after that euery one did accompt those to be his and not to be Christes whome he had Baptized in all the worlde it was decreed that one of the Elders being chosen should be placed aboue the rest to whom all the care or charge of the Church should belong and the seede of scismes be taken away And a litle after Sicut ergo Presbyteri as therefore the Elders know that they by the custome of the church are subiect to him that is set ouer them so let the Bishops know that they more by custome than by the truth of the Lordes dispeÌ„sation are greater than the Elders This was the iudgement of the auncient Fathers yet were they no Arians nor Aerians therefore Yea Peter Lombarde the maister of the sentences citing also Isidorus to witnesse saith Apud vetereâ—… idem Episcopi Presbyterâ—… fuerunt Among the auncient Fathers Bishops and Elders were all one And againe alleaging the Apostle S. Paule he saith Qualis autem â–ª c. But what manner an Elder ought to be chosen the Apostle writing to Timothie declareth where by the name of Bishop he signifieth an Elder And anon after Cumque omnes and when all of them he meaneth his false seueÌ„ orders are spirituall and holy yet the Canons account only two orders to be excelling holie that is to say Deaconship and Eldership Bicause the primitiue Churche is redde to haue these alone and we haue the Apostles commaundement of these alone for the Apostles in euery Citie ordeined Bishops and Elders Neyther the Master only writeth thus but almost all your schoolemen yea though they be them selues of the contrarie opinion yet they write this was the auncient opinion And so Durandus though he make a difference betwéene the power of Iurisdiction the power of order yet he sheweth that
so saith an other church we haue it Nay sayth the thirde neither of ye both haue it but we Héere the one partie or the other say not true yet al work miracles after their miraculous maner But will ye know the truth they were false harlots al deceiued the séely soules that now God be praysed vnderstaÌ„d the knacks of S. Wenefrids néedle the renewing of the bloud of Nayles the filth of S. FraÌ„cis bréeches c. These were your blessed Reliques They were so blessed that as your great champion frier Alfonsus sayth where he defendeth them your blessed couÌ„cell of Laterane vnder your blessep Pope Innocent the thirde was fayne to make this prouiso for them that is put in your decrées Cum ex eo c. Seeing that the Christian religion is defaced and may be defaced in time to come vpon this that certayne do set out to sale the Saints Reliques and euery where shew them foorth we haue ordeined by this present decree that froÌ„ hence foorth the olde Reliques shal in no case be shewed without a cause that is to say without a péece of money to sée them nor shall be set foorth to sale and that suche as shall be found out of newe no man presume to worshippe them till they shall be allowed by the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome that is to say till they haue payed their fées to him for before they be so litle blessed that they be not worshipfull and as for Prelates they shall not suffer those that come for to worship at their Churches to be deceyued by sundry feigned forgeries and false teachings as for lucre sake it is accustomed to be done in most places This decréed your Pope and your Councell M. Stapl. against your blessed reliques Were not here your Pope and his whole Councell heretikes also you were best to say so For this saying proueth your Prelates Priests Pardoners to haue bene false teachers and deceyuers of the people for Lucre and the people hauing bene deceyued by them to haue committed Idolatrie and the Reliques that we were borne in hand were blessed things as ye call them to haue bene faigned forgeries and false teachings not in one place or in some places but in most places that is all ouer your Churche and that not once or twise by a scape but of custome which how long time it prescribeth search you This was the generall state of your vniuersall Church for vniuersall comprehendeth the most parte concerning your blessed reliques euen by the Popes owne definitiue sentence and all his councell which oft times you boast can not erre But though the Pope coÌ„fesse thus much as â—…e could not for shame denie so manifest a matter yet he knew what he did wel inough when he made this statute For what losses so euer other poore Priests and Pardoners should féele he made sure for him selfe to get thereby not so much by retayning the old reliques in estimation that then as stale and common began to decaie as to relieue the Churches hutch whereof he saith he is the coaferer by authorising newe blessed reliques But though he gayned much by this deuice yet much water goeth by the mill that the miller knoweth not of And many miriades of blessed reliques more more encreased and neuer fette the Popes blessing from Rome for their warrant so blessedly they multiplied but had this Popes decrie bene plainly ment or truly kept bothe old and new and all your blessed reliques had bene banished from all blessednesse and worship long agoe as nothing but lies and forgeries inuented to enrich your selues with the spoyle of the peoples Idolatrie I graunt ye haue some antiquitie to pretende for Reliques not onely of S. Hieromes time but somewhat before also that with greate reuerence conserued the bodies of the glorious Martyrs But trowe you they worshipped knéeled crept and offred to them and yet some might yea some did ouershoote themselues herein euen then But did the learned Fathers allow it Doth not euen S. Hierom of whome Alphonsus saithe Qui duriuâ—… 〈◊〉 pugnare solet that was wonte to fight more harde and bitterly say to Uigilantius Quis enim O insanum caput aliquando martyres adorauit For who O thou frantike head hath at any time worshipped the Martyres He telleth how they translated them honorably as noble martyres but they worshipped them not And where other began to attribute an opinion of vertue to their vestiments Chrysestome if the worke be his greatly blameth them Alij autem qui sanctiores c. Other there be saith he that would shew them selues to men to be more holy and tie and hang about them a parte of their hem or heares O wickednesse they would shew a greater holinesse in their garmeÌ„ts than in the body of christ He which is not healed feeding on his bodie would be saued by the holinesse of his garment In so much that he trusteth in the vestiment of man which despayreth in Gods mercie Yea what did Paule did not he giue his napkins that the sicke might be helped yes before those men had the knowlege of God and the reason was that by those mens health the power of God might be knowne But now it were madnesse For after we haue knowne the power of God whereto is it necessarie that we should know the power of man No saith he as I shewed before Neattendaâ—… cinerem c. Regarde not the asshes of the saincts bodies nor the Imbers of the Reliques of the flesh and all their boanes that in time are consumed Yea your owne feigned Epistle in the name of Clement saith Nothing is more wicked and vnthankefull than to receyue a benefite of God and to giue thankes to stockes and stones S. Augustine telleth of Hypocrites in his dayes that caried about with them Reliques for sale Alij membra ossa martyrum c. Other fell the members and bones of Martyrs if yet they be Martyrs other extoll their hems and gardes c. Thus there is some antiquitie to be pretended for Reliques and that they were worshipped also but not of the godly and learned Fathers but of wicked and supersticious hypocrites Against whome they cried out but what would they haue saide had they séene the playne Idolatrie to your forged Reliques Of the which euen the defenders of them haue cried out and coÌ„fessed their abhominations For besides your Pope your Councell of Coleyn euen in defending them saith Hiâ—… tamen c. Notwithstanding here which we can not denie the gouernours of the Churche did after a meruailous fashion sleepe out the matter And anon after Sed nostro saculo c. But in our age and that through the slouth of the parishe Priestes we can not denie it but that we erred And againe Expositae sunt passim c. Reliques are euery where set forth for gaine and those vncertayne Reliques and perhaps herevppon occasion
vvhiche representeth oure Lorde Iesu Christ. This is yet somewhat better than the other And yet in effecte no better for as this mysterie was not vnderstoode so was it not regarded All the honour was to hir And therefore your Legend telleth vs a full worthie storie that euen in hir honour of hir lights Christ himselfe sang Masse to his mother VVee reade an ensample sayth your Legende of a noble Ladie vvhiche had a great deuotion in the blessed Virgin Marie and shee had a Chappell in the vvhiche shee did do say Masse of our Ladie dayly by hir Chaplaine It happened that the day of the Purification of our Ladie hir Chaplaine vvas out so that the Ladie might that daye haue no Masse and she durst not go to another Church bicause shee had giuen hir mantell to a poore man for the loue of our Ladie She vvas much sorovvfull bicause shee might not heare Masse And for to make hir deuotioÌ„ she went into the Chappell and tofore the aultar she kneeled dovvne for to make hir prayers to our Ladie and anon shee fel a slepe In vvhich shee had a vision and hir seemed that she vvas in a Church and savve come into the Churche a great companie of Virgins tofore vvhom shee favve come a right noble Virgin crowned right preciously and when they were all set eche in order came a companie of yong men which sat dovvne eche after other in order like the other after entred one that bare a burthen of Candles and departed them to them aboue first and so to ech of them by order he gaue one and at last came this man to this Ladie aforesayd and gaue to hir also a Candle of vvax The vvich Ladie savv also come a Priest a Deacon and a Subdeacon all reuested going to the aultar as for to say Masse And hir seemed that S. Laurence and S. Vincent vvere Deacon and Subdeacon Iesu Christ the Priest and two angels bearing tofore them Candles and two yong angels began the introit oâ—… the Masse and all the coÌ„panie of the virgins soong the Masse And when the Masse was soong vnto the offring hir semed that thick virgin so crowned went tofore and after all the other followed and offered to the Priest kneeling much deuoutly their Candles And when the Priest taried for this Ladie that shee shoulde also haue commen to the offring the glorious Queene of Virgins sent to hir to say that she was not curteous to make the Priest so long to â—…arie for hir And the Ladie answered that the Priest should proceede in his Masse forth for she would keepe hir Candle and not offer it And the glorious Virgine sent yet once to hir And shee sayde she would not offer hir Candle The thirde time the Queene sayde to the Messenger go and pray hir that shee come and offer hir Candle or else take it from hir by force The Messenger came to this Ladie and bicause in no wise shee woulde not come and offer vp hir Candle he set hande on the Candle that the Ladie helde drew fast And so long he drewe and haled that the Candle brake in two peeces and the one halfe abode still in the hand of the Ladie aforesayde which anon awooke and came to hir selfe and found the peece of the Candle in hir hande whereof she much marueyled and thanked our Lorde and the glorious Virgin Marie deuoutly which had suffered hir that day not to be without Masse And all the dayes of hir life after shee kept that peece of that Candle muche preciously like an holy relique And all they that were touched therwith were guarished and healed of their maladies and sicknesse Thus worde for worde sayth your golden Legende in the honour of your Candles And is not here a golden â–ª péece of worke for a waxen péece of Candle Here is loe one of your blessed Reliques that before ye spake of but it was gotten with hard hold hale and pull not all they coulde get it out of hir fingers neither the Aungel coulde pull it away nor our Ladie was obeyed any whitte yea Christ the poore Masse Priest was caused to tarie and coulde not go foorth with his Masse If this then be true as it must needes be being written in so holy a golden Legende where forsâ—…th is no lie neyther was it a dreame for the Candles end was in hir hande to make mencion of hir holde fast Is not this a foyle to Christ to his mother and all the Saints in heauen that a Candles ende was thus wroong from them all Well howsoeuer that was will ye say this sheweth a further originall of Candles euen Christ his Aungels and Saints in heauen do vse them at their Masses I thinke well master Stapleton at their Masses But if they haue no Masses in heauen and if they haue no Candles in heauen then leauing these childish and impudent lyes for very shame of Candles originall ye were best to stande to the former deuising of them from the heathen custome and returne to your Popes chaunge at Rome Now after these Romishe Pagan customes aforesayde were taken vp in Christendome they began in Spain and after in other Countreys to fall after a coniuring maner to hallow Pascall lightâ—… with exorcismes But vppon what simple reasons Alphonsus declareth in the defence thereof Concerning the halowing of lights â–ª I will onely birng saith he the decree of the fourth Toletane CouÌ„cell Ca. 18. At certaine Churches a Candle and a Taper are not hallowed at their Vigils and they enquire of vs why we hallow them VVe hallow them solemnly that we may receyue the glorious mysterie that came at the time of this auowed night by the blessing of the hallowed Candle And bicause this obseruation is commended in many Countreyes and Kingdomes of Spaine it is fit that for the vnitie of peace it should also be kept in the French Churches Neither shall any escape vnpunished but be vnder the fathers rules that contemneth this Thus we sée the originall and créeping vp of your lights to depende on men Wherevppon though Alphonsus crie out most bitterly calling vs coniurers and enchaunâ—…ers of the people from the truth of the fayth bicause we set not by them but call such superstitious maner of halowing lights to be the verie coniuring in déede as euen their names of exorcismes doth import yet is he faine to confesse that Talis ceres benedictionem omiâ—…ere noÌ„ sit contra fidem The omitting the hallowing of suche a Taper is not agaynst the fayth And if it be not agaynst the fayth to omitte them then are not we Heretikes for omitting them especially in so iust considerations of so great supersition and horrible abuses as of late time more and more they haue growne vnto being at their best but constitutions of men and growne at the length to a very plaine coniuring that an holy Candle coulde driue away lightning and tempests yea the
that are written Likewise the Lorde sending his Apostles commandeth that the nations be baptized and taught to obserue all those things that he commaunded If therefore it be commaunded in the Gospell or in the Apostles Epistles or be contayned in the Acts. c. Then let also this holy tradition be kepte And anone after he sayth Quae ista obstinatio VVhat an obstinacie is this or what a presumption to preferre an humane tradition before Gods ordinance Nor to consider that God taketh indignation and wrath so often as an humaine tradition looseth goeth beyonde the commaundements of God as he cryeth by his Prophet Esay and sayth this people honoreth me with their lippes but their hart is separate frō me they worship me in vayne whyle they teache the cōmaundements and doctrines of men The Lorde also in the Gospell blaming likewise and reprouing putteth foorth and sayth ye haue reiected Gods commaundement to establishe your tradition Of whiche commaundement S. Paule beeing mindefull dothe likewise warne and instructe ◅aying if anye teache otherwise and contenteth not him selfe with the wordes of our Lorde Iesus Christ and his doctrine ▪ he is pufte vp with blockishnesse hauing skill of nothing From suche an one we ought for to departe c. And in the same Epistle he sayth further But if so be O moste deare brother the feare of God be before vs if the tenor of fayth preuayle if we keepe Christes cōmaundements if we maynteyne the holynesse of his espouse incorrupte and inuiolate if these wordes of the Lorde sticke faste in oure vnderstanding and in oure hartes whiche he sayde thinke ye that when the sonne of man shall come he shall finde fayth in the earthe Bicause then we bee the faythfull souldiours of God bicause we wage vnder him with faythe and sincere religion let vs with a faythfull manhoode keepe hys campe committed to vs of god Nor the custome that crepte in among some oughte to hinder vs that the truthe mighte the lesse preuayle and vanquishe For custome without truthe is the antiquitie of errour VVherfore forsaking errour let vs followe the truthe Knowing that the truthe saythe as it is written in Esdras The truth florisheth and preuayleth for euer c. If we returne to the head and originall of Gods tradition mans errour ceaseth And beholde the reason of the heauenly sacraments what obscuritie soeuer lurked vnder the miste and cloude of darknesse it is opened with the light of the truthe If a conduite of water whiche before dyd slowe plentyfully and largely do sodaynely fayle do we not go to the spring there to knowe the reason why it fayleth whether by the encreasing of the vaynes it be dryed in the head or else flowing from thence whole and full it stoppe in the middle course And if it come to passe by reason the pype is broke or if it soke vp the water whereby the streame can not still keepe on his course continually the pype beeing repayred and amended the water is fette agayne as plentyfully and as holesomely as it springeth from the fountayne VVhich thing now also the Priestes of God ought to doe keeping the commaundements of god That if so bee the truth stagger and wauer in any poynt let vs then returne backe to the Lords and his Gospels original and the Apostles tradition And from whence bothe the order and originall arose from thence let the reason of our doing arise Marke this generall rule of S. Cyprian M. Sta. and I pray you set all your ceremonies vnto it and ye shall tell me another tale and say with Hilarie they are well taken away Omnem plantationem c. Euery plant which is not of my fathers setting is to be pulled vp that is to say the tradition of man is to be rooted out by the loue whereof they transgressed the commaundementes of the Lawe And therefore are they blynde leaders of the blynde promising the waye of eternall lyfe which them selues can not see and so beeing blinde them selues and guides of the blynde they tumble into the ditche togither Suche Pharisies are you M. St. with your blynde ceremonies and suche Chrisostome if the worke be hys calleth you and all other that s◅ande so muche on ceremonies Per obseruationes c. They enlarge their owne sayinges by the obseruations of dayes as thoughe it were euen the Phariseis broade gardes and in their preaching they shewe them continually to the people as thoughe they were the full keeping of the Lawe and the getting of their saluation Suche were they of whome Christe sayde they worship me in vayne teaching the doctrines and commaundementes of men The large hemmes of their garmentes he calleth the magnificall extolling of their commandements For when they prayse those trif◅ing and superstitious obseruations of their owne righteousnesse as though they were excellent and very much pleasing God then do they set out the hemmes of their garments If y◅ saye it is to be doubted whether this be Chrisostomes owne opinion of ceremonies or no in likenyng them to the Pharifeis hemmes ye shall heare euen his owne opinion Unde patet multa c. It appeareth heerevpon that many thinges were of newe broughte in by the priestes and althoughe Moyses wyth a greate terrour hadde threatned them that they shoulde neither adde too nor take awaye anything ye shall not saythe hee adde any thyng to the worde that I speake to you thys daye nor take therefrom yet for all thys had they brought in very many new thinges suche as were those not to eate meate with vnwashed handes to rince their cuppes and brasen vessell and to washe themselues And whereas they oughte in processe of tyme to haue contemned suche obseruations they tyed them selues to more and greater VVhich thing came to so gret wickednesse that their precepts were more kept than were the commaundements of god In so muche that now they seemed worthily to be reprehēded that did neglect their obseruations In which doings they committed a double fault for bothe the bringing in it selfe of the newe thinges was no small crime and in that they sharpely punished the contemner of their obseruations hauing no regarde of the commaundementes of God they became thrall to greeuous offences So right in euery poynt thefe doings of the Phariseis hit on the thumbes and liuely portray out your popish Priestes doings M. St. that oppressed the church of Christ with the like and m◅ superstitious ceremonies than euer the Phariseis did Nowe where they pretended as you do that they receiued these ceremonies of their auncestors Although sayth Chrisostome he make no mention of their Elders yet in accusing these he so dasheth downe those that he sheweth euen that to be a double fault first in that they obeyed not God then that they did them for bicause of men as though he shoulde say I tell you euen this destroyeth you bicause in euery thing ye will obey your elders whiche is one of your
the iust length saying Per virtutem gloriosa longitudâ—…nis tuae By the vertue of thy glorious length yet to come to your meditations that ye teach vs do come to vs by the beholding the Crucifixe If these were as fonde as the other worship Idolatrouse what shall we then iudge of the residue Three things saith Discipulus we must consider firste that Christ hanges downe his necke on his shoulder to kisse you and herevppon your Capochini Friers hang their heads a wrie bicause the Crucifixe is so set forth Secondly the Crucifixe hath both his handes stretched abroad to embrace you Thirdly his feete are both fastned to the Crosse to betoken that he will not starte from you Suche toyes ye imagine the Crucifixe to represent vnto vs and thereout gather your mysticall significations that a man might looke thereon till his eyes stare and neuer thinke on kissing colling or any such things Thus did ye mocke and deceyue the simple people and made them besides Idolaters very Idiotes indeede with these your Idiotes bookes But the Booke of God that setteth out to the eyes of our faith the death and benefites of Iesus Christe ye quite lefte out and would not suffer that Crucifixe to be looked vppon Wherein they should haue séene and learned to know most fully Christ Crucified without any daunger of Idolatrie at all Now if ye say all this hitherto inferreth not yet Idolatry so loÌ„g as ye giue not to the Crosse the very worship that is due to God but reserue that still to him alone which ye call Latriam and giue to the Crosse Duliam and Hyperduliam although this shifte be fully by others alreadie confuted yet admitting the same it so litle shifteth your manifest Idolatrie that it proueth ye liers on your own heads and Idolaters euen by your owne distinction Sith not onely ye gaue Latriam the Crosse but also defende that it may be giuen thereto Chiefly Thomas of Aquine your great schoolemaster yea M. Doctour Saunders himself one of your chiefest Louaine writers in his especiall treatise of the defence of Images caÌ„ scarce tell what to defende herein For firste he saythe we defende it for the more probable that the same degree of hononr is not due to the Image of Christe of our Ladie or of other Sainctes whiche is due to Christ our Ladie and to other Saincts them selues But there is a certayne proper honour due to a good remembraunce or monument Thus saith D. Sanders there But in the ende conclusioÌ„ of his whole booke one while he defendeth Thomas and graunteth the figure of the thing to haue the same honour done to it that is done to the thing it selfe and saith the worship that is done to Christ is done to his purple coate also Then fleeth he touche againe from that saying that the Church neuer taught nor doth teach that the Image of Christ must be adoured with the honour due to God. Then againe he alloweth Thomas his naturall reason But after that flying as fast from Thomas If Thomas saith he haue bene deceyued in this question it is an errour in Philosophie and not in Diuinitie And why bicause he alleageth Aristotle I pray you M. Stapleton if you may be so bolde pull him by the â—…léeue and desire him to be ware how he speaketh against Aristotle and his Metaphysikes What is Aristotles Metaphysikes no good Diuinitie with him if the Sorbonistes heare this it is to be feared they will condemne him for an Heretike as they serued Ramus Now when M. Saunders hath thus startleâ—… too and fro in docke out netle for belike he was neâ—…led with this question notwithstanding saith he I put it for an vndoubted truthe that all Images be honored in the Churche with an inferiour honour to that which is due to the first samplars and principall paterns And yet by and by quite contrarie to this he saithe For whether in any case the honour of the Image may be the same with the honour of his truth or no I neyther will nor can nor am perfectly able throughly to discusse And yet before he determined it Doctour like and saide I put it for an vndoubted truth that Images haue inferiour honour But in conclusion when he shoulde defende the Papistes from the perill of Idolatrie and fully determine how farre Images may be honoured without Idolatrie he concludes they must be honored with such honour as is giuen without furder curious discussing whether any more may be giuen them or no. And telleth vs that howe muche is dewe to the Image we neede not care When all this while this was the chiefest thing in this pointe cared for and that he him selfe so muche hath laboured in and one while denies another while grauntes one while determines another while saithe he will not can not nor is able to determine thus standing in doubt and yet putting vs out of doubte and all this adoe is onely for this question how much or how little honour should be giuen to Images least we committe Idolatrie to them by giuing the worship of Latria after his owne distinction and after all this adoe to lap vp the doubte with saying VVee neede not care how much is dewe and we must honour Images with such honour as is giuen with out furder curiouse discussing whether any more may be giuen or no what is this but to open a gap to all Idolatrie But if M. D. SauÌ„d. may thus ridde his handes of this matter by bidding the people not care how much worship they giue to Images whereto then should we care for this your shift of these three kindes of worships sith it is not to be cared how much worship be giuen them Thus ordered you the simple people then bidding them honour worship cappe knéele offer pray vnto trust vppon and care not how much they gaue to the Image And this carelesse Idolatrie M. Stapleton would you and your complices bring vs againe vnto Neyther are these things as M. Sanders pretendes to mitigate the matter Quiddities subtilties imagined of Thomas a few Schoolemen only but all your Schoolemen for the most part handle and tosse this question to and fro hauing occasion by the excéeding great â–ª Idolatrie committed in the meane while by the people Yea not onely the Schoolemen helde their opinions but the Friers as fast preached the like worship and cited the famous Scoolemen for them Discipulus citeth Thomas 3. parte Quest. 25. Artic. 6. Crux Christi potest adorari adoratione Latriae c. The Crosse of Christe may be worshipped with the worship of Latria which ye call Diuine worship bicause the Crosse besprent with the bloude of Christ is the very Image of the Crucifix spredde thereon and the Image of it also is euery wood that is formed after the fashion of a Crosse. And thus he not onely proueth that the Crosse whiche Christ dyed on but euery other
their charge than ye haue or possibly can do to M. Feckenham or any other Catholike whereof I dare make any indifferent reader Iudge True indéede M. Stapl. without supposall ye hâ—…ue an head as it were a counting house full of pregnant matter such as these your viâ—… and crakes with other your common places of sclaunderouse raylingâ—…are wherein ye excell all your comâ—… 〈◊〉 wherein for my parte I will not contende with you but onely sette it 〈◊〉 that as ye say euery indifferent reader whom you dare make your Iudge may beholde Iudge and coâ—…d your pregnancie therein And if ye haue any pregnant matter tâ—… charge vs as ye vaunt it shall suffiâ—… me aftâ—…r my hâ—…y manner not contending who hath more pregnant matter wherein ye graunt ye may be charged by vs in some pregnant matter to discharge our selues of the charge if we can and againe if we can also to returne the charge on your neckes or els let it stande for me indifferent to whome the readers indifferent iudgement shall awarde it whether you haue more pregnant matter to charge vs or we haue more and more true matters to recharge you and discharge our selues in this heresie of the Donatistes They were all ye say called first Donatistes but as they firstâ—… fell from the Church Catholike so fell they afterwarde from their own Church and maister into an horrible diuision of the Maximianists Circumcellions Rogatists Circenses others A liuely paterne of the sectes sprong from your Apostle Luther as in their pedegree in the Apologie of Staphilus euery man may see Euery man may see M. St. that he is a good cocksâ—…re witnesse of your side and therefore it is pregnantly done of you to sende vs to him but sauing your reuerence M. Stapleton I haue heard say ere this that two false harlots neede no broker Your argument is vicious diuerse waies but chiefly it standeth of your common fallacion A non causa vt causa so doth the most of this your pregnant matter For els by the like argument yè might make another liuely paterne from Christes own wordes Necesse est vt Scandala veniant It is necessarie that offences come And Christ him selfe as Simeon saide of him is Positus multis in ruinaâ—… Placed to many to their ruine And so he calleth him selfe a stombling stone and his ghospell as saith S. Paule is to the Iewes an offence and follie to the Gentiles What a number of Heresies sprang vp euen in the Apostles time through false Apostles of whom saith S. Ihon They went out from vs but of vs they were not Doth not S. Augustine describing the Church of Christ confesse Hâ—…reses 〈◊〉 de illa exiâ—…runt tanquam sarmenta inutilia de vitè precisa ipsa autem manet in radice sua All Heresies went out of the Church as vnprofitable boughs cut of from the vine but it selfe remayneth still in the roote thereof Ye should discerne betwene the sower of the wheate and the sower of the darnell M. St. and then your argument were aunswered Although it be also a sclanderous lie to Father those sectes on the gospell or from Luther that are rather deriued from Popish errours with which they more agrée as sprong out of suche superstitions and ignorance as you had noseled them withall But if ye will fetch in this point an argument from the 〈◊〉 how forgatte you the plentifull sectes of your false Friers all sprange first from Francis and Dominike but what swarmes full not of the Friers onely who as Chaâ—…er telleth came driuinge like bées out of Sathanas tayle but of the diuerse sectes of them that haue sprougâ—… out since the one no more like the other then an Apple is like an Oyster and all agreing togither like cattâ—… in a â—…tter Ye might haue tolde vs of Peter Lombarde of Thomas of Scotus c. And of the sectes sprong out of their loynes deuided so bitterly among them selues with great 〈◊〉 and â—…artakinges and that in no small pointeâ—… of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ye might haue made a fitter comparisâ—…n to the 〈◊〉 Suche pregnant 〈◊〉 aâ—… your first charge is such is your second charge The Donatistes say you would sometime crake bragge of their multitude and bring it as an argument that the truth was on their side as doth your Apologie â–ª which being restrained by the Emperours lawes and dayly diminishing â–ª theÌ„ they cried the truth resteth with the few elected and chosen persons then cried they O little flocke feare not as ye did when ye were as yet but in corners rotten barnes and luskie lanes If these be good arguments M. Stapl â–ª to prâ—…ue a Donatist to crake and bragge of multitude to bring it as an argument that the truth is on their side then are all Papistes Donatistes and we 〈◊〉 For it is your crake almost your onely vauÌ„t of 〈◊〉 of greatest multitudes of people asking vs in coÌ„tempt where our Church was when for the most parte ye saide all is â—…urs as the Diuell saide when he looked in at the Câ—… 〈◊〉 as telleth the olde by worde And if nowe it hath 〈◊〉 Goâ—… by the preaching of his â—…lessed â–ª wordâ—… 〈◊〉 he proâ—…ed after tâ—… generall defection so to detect the man of sinne and to chaine vp SathaÌ„ that he should not so much dectine the world but that we may 〈◊〉 and eâ—…race the glad and true tidinges of our saluation we do not crake nor bragge thereof Reioyse in the Lord we may praysing God that he hath reuealed these things to the simple and to lifte vp our heads Christ biddeth vs when the haruest waxeth ripe and great praying him to sende more workemen into his haruest to reape the sheaneâ—… with ioy the seede whereof we sowed before in teares This we may do be I trust no Donatists As for craking of multitudes it is proper to your Churche M. St. we make no argument to or fro thereon And if on the other parte in the time of persecution wheÌ„ iniquitie had the vpper hand we comforted our selues with this consolation of Christ Feare not O little flocke and the truth resteth with the feâ—…e eleâ—…ed and chosen persons If ye scoffe at these wordes and heâ—…vpon inferre vs to be Donatistes bicause they saide the same by this argument ye wil â—…oue the author of them Iesus Christ him self to be a Donatist to The wordes are godly true who soeuer vse theÌ„ Only ye should haue proued that we applied them falsely as the Donatistes did or elsye proue nothing Ye say we criâ—…d thus when we were as yet but in corners rotten barnes lusky lanes Were you neuer in corners rotten barnes luskie lanes M. Stapl I will not say for what purposes but God forgiue ye and I do but I thinke ye werenot there for Religion And though it seemeth by these your lusty crakes where ye are
nâ—…n at Louaine that ye would be thought no hedgeâ—…réeper â–ª nor â—…uedropper as sâ—… of your broode are peaking here in lusâ—…y lanes and lurking in corners and yet they court theÌ„ selues no more Donatistes than you NotwithstaÌ„ding it appeareth for all your crakes bragges ye haue not that stout courage fâ—…r your raâ—…se but that ye like Louaine better than M. 〈◊〉 â—…ging and had rather blow your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 lâ—…ytorer in a lusky lane or hide your head 〈◊〉 the corner of an old â—…otten barne rather than warme your selfe with a â—…aggot aâ—… a â—…ake in Smithfielde suche as was the crueltie of your Popish tyrannie to those that constantly abode the terrible brunt therof And although other giuing place to your furie either of their owne infirmitie or that God preserued them to a better oportunitie did then flée or hide them selues what dyd they héerein that Chryst gaue them not licence example and commaundement so to do Ye might aswell obiect this to those Saincts of God of whome S. Paule telleth that they wente about in the wildernesse of whome the worlde was vnworthy Why say ye not Elias lurked in lusky lanes when he sted the face of Iesabell Why say ye not that Athanasius crepte into corners when he hidde him selfe seueÌ„ yeres in a Cesterne an harder harborough than a rotten barne For shame M. Stap. learne to make a difference betwéene the perfecution and the cause of it or else this were an easie argument to make all Donatistes yea your selues also And would to God all corners rotten barnes and luskie lanes were wel ransacked some luskes I think would appeare in their likenesse whom ye would be loth should be founde out M. Stapleton Thirdly ye say The donatistes when they could not iustifie their owne doctrine nor disproue the Catholikes doctrine leauing the doctrine fell to rayling agaynst the vitious life of the Catholikes In this poynt who be Donatistes I referre me to Luthers and Caluines bookes especially to M. Iewell and to your owne Apologie Ye nâ—…ede not M. Stap. referre your selfe so farre referre your selfe to your selfe a Gods name yea go no further than this your Counterblast I warrant ye you blow such a blast héerein that ye maye well encounter master D. Harding master D. Saâ—…ders M. Dorman M. Marshall or any other of your writers thoughe they haue all godly giftes in this poynt yet this your Rhel horicall grace of rayling goeth so farre beyonde them all that they are scarse worthy to cary the wispe after you M. Stap. Onely at this I maruell that like the wiseman when he tolde how many were in the companie he neuer reckoned him selfe that you hauing so pregnant a vayne héerein do still forget your selfe But belike it is for this cause that as ye surmount all your companie so ye goe beyonde the Donatistes also who as ye saye rayled onely agaynst the vitious lyues But you where ye finde no vitious life to rayle agaynst the Protestantes fall to slaundering and reuiling euen their godly and vertuous liues Fourthly ye say The Donatistes refused the opeÌ„ knowne catholike Churche and sayde the Church remayned onely in those that were of their side in certaine corners of Afrike And sing not you the like song preferring your Geneua VVittenberge before the whole Churche beside The Donatistes as you say M. St. tied the Churche to Affrike and wrested the scripture for it forsaking the open knowne catholike Church in déede But you shoulde haue proued your popish Church to be that open knowne catholike Church now which they refused then If ye saye you proue that bicause they refused the church of Rome then your church is the church of Rome now if ye vnderstaÌ„d the church for the coÌ„gregation of the faythful ye vtter a double vntruth For they-refused not only the coÌ„gregation then at Rome but of al the world besides and agayne your church or congregation of Rome now is nothing the same or lyke the same in religion that it was then If ye meane by the church of Rome the Citie of Rome and the Popes chayre there then ye proue your selues to be Donatistes that tye the churche of Christ dispersed euery where to the seate of Rome as they did vnto Aphrike And if ye meane by the open knowne catholike Churche the multitude of people acknowledging your Popes sâ—…ate at Rome then agayne are ye Donatists by your second poynt in craking of multitude depending on Rome a corner in Italie as ye saye the Donatistes craked of their multitude depeÌ„ding on their corners in Affrike As for vs we depende neither vpon Geneua nor VVittenberge nor tye the Church of Christ vnto them nor preferre them either before the whole catholike church or any parte thereof nor referre men vnto them for the triall of the Church or to any other place else but allow them and all and singuler other places where the worde of God is sincerely set fooâ—…th where Idolatrie errours superstition are abolished We 〈◊〉 to the mountaynes as Chrysostome expoundeth it Quâ—… sunt Christiani conferant se ad scripturaâ—… They that are ChristiaÌ„s let them get them to the scriptures And why not to Rome Ierusalem and suche other mountaynes but onely to the scriptures Bicause saith he since that heresie hath possessed the Churches there caÌ„ be no triall of true christianitie nor refuge of Christians that would trie out the truthe of fayth but the deuine scriptures Before it coulde haue bene knowne diuers wayes whiche was the Church which was Gentilitie But nowe there is none other wayes to know which is in deede the very church of Christ but all onely by the Scriptures If they therefore set foorthe the Scriptures we acknowledge them to be of the Church of christ Let Rome doe this and we will as gladly acknowledge Rome to be of the Churche of Chryst as either Wittenberge or Genâ—…ua â–ª Yea as S Hierome sayth which is also put in the Popes owne decrées Eugâ—…bium Constantinople Rhegium Alexandrie Thebes Guarmatia or any other place if it professe the truthe with Geneua and Wittenberge For on this consideration sayth S. Augustine the Churche is holy and catholike not bicause it dependeth on Rome or any other place nor of any multitude obedient to Rome bothe whiche are Donatisticall but quia recte credit in DeuÌ„ bicause it beleeueth rightly on God. This is our song M. Stap. of Geneua VVittenberge Affrica yea and of Rome too And if you can sing any better note I giue you good leaue for me onely I would wish you howsoeuer ye sing to leaue your flat lying tune in saying Fifthly say you The Donatistes corrupted the fathers bookes wonderfully and were so impudent in alleaging them that in their publique conference at Carthage they pressed muche vpon Optatus wordes and layde him foorth as an author making for theÌ„ who yet wrote expresly against them and in all
it may rather confounde for they confounde their offices turning Bishops not as it were into lay men but into lay men in deede What the Bishops wordes do meane is most playne to a man of meane witte that list not to Iangle about nothing neither the wordes importe any such meaning nor this is any thing in question the ministeriall office but the supreme gouernment which are two farre different things But since that to no purpose ye chalenge the B. for curtalling Eusebius words let vs behold how you do set them downe For thus say you he saith to the Bishops Vos quidem eorum quae intus sunt in Ecclesia agenda ego vero eorum qua extra sunt Episcopus à Deo sum constitutuâ—… You are Bishops saith he of those thinges that are to be done within the Church I am Bishop of outwarde thinges which answere of his may satisfie any reasonable man for all that ye bring in here of Constantine or all that ye shall afterwarde bring in which declareth him no supreme Iudge or chiefe determiner of causes Ecclesiasticall but rather the contrarie and that he was the ouerseer in ciuill matters And the most that may be enferred hereof is that he had the procuration and execution of Churche matters which I am assured all Catholikes will graunt Ye would faine I sée M. Stapl. reuoke your graunt and it could be cleanly conueyde or so to limite it that it might not appéere ye haue granted that that all your fellowes denie But this reuocation is to late Neuerthelesse fuli pretely ye compasse the matter to defeate all these most plaine not wordes but doings of Constantine by shoouing at this name B. shop in the Emperour which in any case ye caÌ„ not abide And therefore as who though B. went aboute to confounde the offices of a Bishop and of a Prince and thereto had concealed Eusebius words ye solemnly take on yâ—…n to set them out both in Latine and in English. But tell me by that false faith of yours M. Stapleton why ye haue not translated the wordes aright in English that ye haue set downe in Latine did ye sée in déede they made nothing for you but rather much against you is the English of intus in Ecclesia within the Church And the English of eorum quae extra Outward ciuill things or matters or Ego vero c. Episcopus à ' Deo sum constitutâ—… I am a Bishop what is manifest corruption of plaine wordes and euident sense if this be not this is past cutting of the tayle M. St. or slitting his nose and paring his eares to dresse it like a perfect curtall but euen to cutte both buttockes and heade away and make it a carrion karkasse this translating is trans I ordanem in déede But the wordes of Constantine the sense are plaine You saith he speaking to the spirituall pastours are Bishops of those thinges that in the Churche are to be done within or inwardly But I am appointed of God a Bishop of those things that are forthout or outwardly As who should say your Bishoply office in Gods Churche is in the ministeris of those things that worke inwardly that perce the heart enter into the soule cleaue the thoughtes in sunder and properly belong to the inwarde man the liuely worde of god My Bishoply office in Gods Churche is distinguished from this and is in things without that is in the outwarde setting forth and publique direction of Gods worde to be duly taught by you Thus both their offices were in Gods Church the matter and groundworke of both their Bishoprikes was Gods true religion But the doing of the one was pertayning to the inwarde man the doing of the other to the outwarde man. And this is the very distinctioÌ„ that Constantine maketh which being not falsely translated as you do and so misunderstoode may satisfie as ye say any reasonable man But your vnderstanding is very vnreasonable to vnderstand by inward things things ecclesiasticall and by outward things only ciuill things in déede they be out and quite out of the consideration of the Churche But wherefore then called he him selfe a Bishop also with them yea an vniuersall Bishop as Eusebius termeth him but to declare that his ouersighte was in the same matter that was theirs the matter was Gods truth and Religion in bothe the manner was outwarde or inwarde as eithers Bishoprike required Otherwise if he had meant onely of ciuill matters as you expounde he had bene no more a Bishop thereby than the very Soldane or great Turke or any other Heathen Prince that ouersee their ciuill matters very circumspectly And so as ye did in your fourth Chapter ye make Constantine for all these notable things in him that your selfe before haue graunted no better than an infidell Prince in this behalfe For by outward ye say is meant ciuill matters But the ciuill gouernement ye say also reacheth no furder than the peoples quietnesse wealth abundance and prosperouse maintenance that these thinges are common as well to the heathen as to the Christian gouernment Thinke ye M. Stapleton these Fathers meant no furder gouernment nor in other matters than these when they called Constantine an vniuersall Bishop and that Constantine measured his office no furder when he called him selfe by the name of a Bishop â–ª for shame M. Stapleton deface not to Christian a Prince after so Turkish a manner nor thereto so manifestly falsifie your authour nor abuse your reader with such a shamelesse impudence Well say you And the moste that may be inferred thereof is that he had the procuration and execution of Churche matters which I am assured all Catholikes will graunt May we be assured M. Stapleton on your worde that all your popish Catholikes will graunt euen thus much For I verily feare they will graunt it no furder than it pleaseth them And where ye are so readie to assure vs of others graunts what assurance haue we had alreadie of all your owne liberall graunts when ye were disposed to wrangle as now againe ye do for how agreeth this euen with your former graunt that Princes might make lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion that Princes might take some regiment vppon them in Ecclesiasticall causes yea might do as much as all these ensamples specifie and that now ye make the most to be but the procuration and execution of Church matters Although what ye meane by these wordes ye tell not would ye haue them onely the Churches that is as you meane by the Churche onely the Priests proctours and executioners now truly ye limite them a full faire office But thinke ye the name of B. and vniuersall B. did importe nothing els was that the most that may be inferred thereof and yet that is more than onely to be their executioner as ye said before to be as ye adde here to it their proctour also Yea it is
the truth in this poynt and in so manie other Where in yée shew your selfe not onely discontented subiectes but in heart verie rebellions nor repining onely with discontented stomackes but with open sayings writings and other seditions attemptes agaynst the obedience ye owe to our gracious Prince and Countrey Ye call hir gracious but God defende hir gracious person from your vngracious practises and from all such Iudas kisses of hollow hearted flattring Papistes For howe vngraclously ye minde hir highnesse and your Countrey all that heare your sugred wordesnowe speaking as though that butter would not melt in your mealy mouth and read your common place withall collected of your most shamefull and notorious slaunders that ye rayse vpon so gracious a prince and your natiue Countrey would meruayle how that dubble tongue of yours coulde speake such contraries But ye are a Merchant for the nonce ye studie Louaine diuinitie that is to say to beare fire in one hand water in another to laugh in ones face and strike him with a dagger to the heart as Ioab did with Abner and Amasa But let vs sée how trimly ye cloke this geare I dare say neuer a Frier in Louaine can play the sinoother hypocrite For besides say you that we ought absolutely to obey God more than man and preferre the truth which our sauiour him selfe protesteth to be encouraging all the faythfull to professe the truth and giuing them to wit that in defending that they defende Christ himselfe before all other worldly respectes whatsoeuer What a godly pretence of zeale is here to God were it not for pure loue they heare to God master Stapleton promiseth for them as theyr spokes man they would obey their Prince Nowe surely this séemeth to procéede of an holy zeale But what is that they meane here by this absolute obedience to God God may be absolutely obeyed and the Prince also next to God conditionally be obeyed as the chiefe setter foorth of Gods absolute obedience God in his holie worde neuer spake any thing against obedience to the Prince whereby any Hypocrite might pretende a scruple of disobeying God if next vnder God he obeyed his Prince but God in his worde commaundeth vs so to obey him What meane they then to alleage God for theyr disobedience Forsooth here is a mystery ye must vnderstande by God the Pope for so he is called Dominus deus noster Papa Our Lorde God the Pope ▪ and their obedience to the Prince herein is flatte agaynst this Gods obedience And bicause master Stapleton and his fellowes are priests of this Gods making they must therefore disobey theyr Prince And this is the very matter So Thomas Becked died for Gods cause and what was that forsooth the franchisies of the Popes Church For all that is for the Pope and Popery and the Popish priests honours is only for God for Christ and for the truth when it is for the Deuill as soone as indéede it is for him the Authour of all such hypocriticall disobedience and for their owne filthie lucre But God is a good God he must beare the name of all ▪ The Papistes being thus by theyr Attourney master Stapleton excused of theyr Disobedience least this shoulde not be thought sufficient There is yet behinde one other proper waye of excusing themselues and that is to fall in accusing the Bishop that therby the papists may be thought the more excusable Beside all this I say sayth master Stapleton whosoeuer will but indifferently consider the matter shall see that M. Horne himselfe in specifying here at large the Queenes Maiesties gouernment by the statute intended doth no lesse in effect abridge the same by dissembing silence than the Catholikes doe by open and plaine contradiction Ye charge the B. here with abridging the Queenes Maiesties gouernement by dissembling silence This is your former quarrell M. Stap. yet could ye hitherto proue nothing omitted concerning the verie gouernment it selfe and therefore ye wrangled about other clauses of debarring the gouernement from any foreine person and of vniting the gouernment to the crowne of Englande which bicause the B. set not downe as parcels of the gouernment which ech man séeth are none ye chalenge him of dissembling silence and do as one that either hath nothing else to saye or that this is some such notable triumph that ye thought good to end your first booke therewith as it were a gyrde to the Bishop and a pricke fastened in the Readers minde to cause him mislyke of the Bishops dealing and suspect the whole cause thereby This indéede were somewhat oratorlyke if it were not so apparant an vntruth that euery body might behold the falshood therof the malice of you and the impertinencie of the quarrell But as you thereby are able crie it out as fast and as lowde as ye will to proue nothing in word or déede against the Bishop and therefore run to byous quarrels of silence and abridging in effect so your selfe while ye would excuse your selfe as not discontented nor repining subiectes accuse your selfe without any dissembling at all And are not ashamed to confesse that ye withstande hir Maiesties gouernment by open and plaine contradiction Though therefore your accusation of the Bishop be to any indifferent man to consider the matter no excuse of your disobedience yet any that shall indifferently consider the matter yea though he were som what partiall on your side sith so openly and plainely ye dare open your contradiction thereto will holde you altogither vnexcusable and iudge you on your owne mouth But let vs sée why ye are thus importune with the Bishop to accuse him so often nowe in the ende of this booke whether ye haue any newe matter to lay to his charge that ye haue not yet vttred how truly ye accuse him For say you whereas the statute and the othe to the which all must sweare expresseth a supreme gouernment in all things and causes without exception M. Horne taking vpon him to specifie the particulars of this generall decree and amplifying that little which he giueth to the Queenes Maiestie with copie of wordes full statutelike he leaueth yet out and by that leauing out taketh from the meaning of the statute the principall cause ecclesiasticall ▪ And what is that you aske forsooth iudgement determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise For what is more necessarie in the Church than that the supreme gouernour thereof shoulde haue power in all doubtes and controuersies to decide the truth and to make an ende of questioning this in the statute by M. Hornes silence is not comprised And yet who doubteth that of all things and causes ecclesiasticall this is absolutely the chiefest Why M. St. are ye nowe of a contrarie opinion to that if ye be remembred that ye were before for then ye reasoned that omission and silence was no deniall but concluded the contrarie Qui
tâ—…cet consentire videtur for he that holdeth his peace seemeth to consent Howbeit I crie you mercie the case is altered For there ye defend your client here ye oppugne your aduersarie And belike ye haue some priuiledge from Rome euer to turne the matter so as may best serue your turne But and it were not for this your priuiledge surely I woulde further aske ye howe chaunce so soone ye haue forgotten your late vaunt and euen in this leafe wherin ye crake that ye walke not in generall wordes but restrayne your selfe to particulars now stande quarrelling about the generall words of the statute and mocke the B. for particulars if ye shalâ—… laye forth your priuiledge to doe this when ye thinke ye may get some aduauntage thereby yet I thinke your priuiledge stretcheth not both to wrest the state of the question in hande and of the issue to the statute and to wrest and belâ—…e the statute as ye please and thereof to gather what false conclusion ye lyst For first ye do the Bishop wrong â—…th Maister Feckenham hath set vp his issue to be prooued Anye suche gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes to driue the bishop from thence to the wordes of the statute that expresse it in all ecclesiasticall causes Herein ye offer the bishop wrong For by this issue betwéene them though the Bishop in euery Prince continually alleage not ensamples in euery Ecclesiasticall cause but nowe and then in all nowe and then in some for your Popes daily encroched on Princes and at length got the mâ—…st of all yet hath the Bishop proued and satisfied the vertue of this issue Any such gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes Howbeit ye do him further wrong to chalenge him here for leauing out any poynt of gouernment in any Ecclesiasticall cause that euen the statute giueth hir maiestie that is to say A supreme gouernement in all things and causes Doth not the bishop set downe this M. St hath he not specified euen the same wordes oftentimes already and doth not his particular specifications coÌ„teine as much here also Nâ—… say you he leaueth out the principall cause ecclesiasticall and most necessarie meete and conuenient for a supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall Soft M. St. stay here or euer we demaund what this cause should be I demaunde only now why ye say supreme gouernour Ecclesiasticall is this your honestie in handling the statute doth the Quéene take vpon hir to be a supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall or doth the statute giue this title to hir maiestie A supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall the statute saith A supreme gouernor in all Ecclesiastical causes â–ª And is there no differeÌ„ce betwene an ecclesiastical gouernor a gouernor in eccles causes but you vse this your false captious speach to make that people beleue the slaÌ„der that ye raise on hir Maiesty as though she toke vpon hir to bean ecclesiasticall person to be a B. and a minister of the worde sacraments and by hir chiefe gouernmeÌ„t ouer bishops chalenged to be a chief or head bishop of Bishops like vnto your Pope And so hauing raised vp this slauÌ„der on the Quenes maiestie the statute ye chalenge the Bishop for omitting a principall ecclesiastical cause But what is that you aske forsooth iudgement say you determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise Here againe M. Stapl. ye speake as captiously for if by this iudgement ye meane an authoritie aboue the doctrine of Gods worde as all your side maintaineth that the word of God receyueth his authoritie of the Churches iudgement â–ª which Church ye call the Priestes and is authenticall bicause they haue ratified it so to be otherwise it were not true nor good then in déede as the Bishop hath set downe no such iudgement determining or approuing of doctrine neyther so coulde he haue done for the Quéenes Maiestie â—…keth no such supreme gouernement vpon hir nor such supreme gouernement is due to any other than to God alone who hath by Iesus Christ his sonne already fully determined in his holy worde what doctrine is good and true â–ª And what doctrine soeuer is besides that is neyther true nor good whosoeuer take vpon him to iudge determine and approue the same be it eyther your Pope or your Church neuer so much yea were it an angell from heauen â—…e must 〈◊〉 helde accursed But if ye meane by iudging determining and approuing of doctrine such authority as only acknowledgeth giueth testimonie admitteth alloweth setteth forth and strengthneth the doctrine of Christes onely worde not aâ—… ruler ouer it but as seruant vnto it and the reiecting or abolishing of all other doctrine against or besides that wordâ—… then hath the bishop not left out this ecclesiasticall cause in the statute though not iudging in that maner that the ecclesiasticall gouernour Bishop or Minister doth in his sermons or debating thereon but for so much as belongeth to a supreme gouernour And so sayth the bishop The gouernment that the Queenes Maiestie most iustly taketh on hir in ecclesiasticall causes is the guiding caring prouiding ordering directing and ayding the eccl. state within hir dominions to the furtherance maintenance and setting foorth of true religion buitie and quietnesse of Christes Church visiting reforming restrayning amending and correcting all maner persons with all maner errours superstitions heresies schisâ—…es abuses offences contempts and enormities in or about Christes religion whatsoeuer Marke these words a little better M. Stap. and I trust you shall sée it was you that ouershot your selfe and lefte out good attention béeing caried away in a cocke brayne â—…ume with too hastie a preiudice And that the bishop left out héere no part of such iudgement determination and approuing of doctrine which is true and good which is otherwise as belongeth to suche a supreme gouernour as groundeth himselfe on Gods iudgement â–ª determining and approbation What do ye thinke is true religion no good doctrine with you If it be the bishop hath not omitted it Can he care and prouide for it direct and set it foorth without iudgement without the determining of it to be good and true without the approbation of it On the other side are errours and heresies no false nor naughtie doctrine with you if they be then the bishop named them and thinke ye the visiting reforming restrayning amending and correcting can be without a iudgement and determination agaynst them Then sithe he in playne spéeche ascribeth all this to the Prince which fully answereth all this that ye call for if as I sayd ye vnderstande this iudgement determining and approuing a right ye shewe what a very continuall wrangler ye be where no cause at all is giuen But incontinent ye declare what ye meane by this iudgement of doctrine For what say you is more necessarie in the Churche than that the supreme gouernour therof shoulde haue power in all doubtes and controuersies to decide the truthe and
doo Will ye haue a woman weare a mans apparell it is flat forbidden by Gods worde Will ye haue a Quéene fight hir self in a battaile and breake a speare as a king may do In déed some mannish women as the Quéene of Amazons Thomyris Semiramis and other haue so doone but it is not sitting And by your owne reason the imbecillitie of theyr kynde doth cléere them And a number of such other things may be reckoned vp Shall we now saye the Quéene is not supreme gouernour ouer these persons and causes bicause hir selfe can not doe them Likewyse for a king that is a chylde you know he can not fight in battell himselfe neyther can he himselfe sit in iudgement and debate rights and wrongs in ciuil doubtes manie mo things can he himselfe not doe euen bicause as ye say he hath a defect in iudgemeÌ„t Hath he therfore in these ciuill and temporall thyngs no supreme gouernment Thus ye sée still your examples faile yea they make cleane agaynst you for as a supreme gouernor may wel be a supreme gouernor in those things that he himself can not do so a christeÌ„ princes supreme gouernmeÌ„t ouer al ecclesiastical persons in al ecclesiastical causes is nowhit hindred although the prince he or she yong or old can not do the functions ecclesiastical nor be an ecclesiast person The second argument is that he so often and al the Papists vse of the excellencie of the minister in his ministration aboue the Prince To this he citeth the saying of Saint Paule Let men â—…o esteeme vs as ministers of Christ and dispensers of his mysteries To whiche ministerie kings are not called And here is againe alledged the storie of â—…ziae that presumed to offer incense and was punished with â—…eaprie The effect of all the argument he knitteth vp thus Siergo minister c. If therfore the minister of the Church of Christ exercise a greater and more diuine ministerie than the king or any other prince howe is the king the Supreme heade of that churche wherein he seeth certaine ministers greater than himselfe I answere this is a fallation secundum quid ad simpliciter We graunt in the respect of his ministerie the minister is aboue all Princes But this pertayneth to the actions and function of the minister and not to the ouersight and direction that all those actions and functions be orderly done Nowe this béeing but a common argument Master Saunders vrgeth it further by comparison of eyther estate the Prince and the Priest from the olde Testament to the newe saying Ac nimirum illud c. And thys namely I seeme to take by my right the authoritie of any Christian king in his christian kingdom is not greater than was in tymes paste the authoritie of any Iewishe kyng among the people of the Iewes for if the Citie of God to whyche Chryste of his owne name hathe giuen a newe name maye verily bee the more woorthie but can not be inferiour to the Churche of the Iewes â–ª Surely then it followeth that a christian king ouer his christian kingdome can not obtaine more power than a kyng of the Hebrue nation did obteyne among the Hebrâ—…wes For howe muche the more any Common weale is subiecte too their earthly Kyng the authoritie of that common weaâ—…e is so muche the lesse But the authoritie of the Churche of Christe is not lesse than the authoritie of the Synagoge of the Iewes bycause in the churche of Christe those thinges were fulfilled to the verie image of the things whiche in the Synagoge of the Iewes were scarce figured by the naked shadowes As the truthe in deede in greater than the image so againe the image is greater than the shadowe but this is euident that the authoritie in times past of the only king is lesser than the authoritie of his christian kingdome or of hys Bishops But if it be so then the christian king which is both lesse than the church and the bishops of his kingdom cannot be immediatly vnder Christ the head of the churche This argument is intricate and full of many inuersed cringle crangles to shewe a face of déepe and subtill knowledge beyonde the simple mans capacitie whyche kynd of reasonyng is more suspicious than to edifying The effecte of the argument standeth all on this The greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the Priestes and the churche But the priestes and the churche haue not lesse authoritie but aboue a christian king Ergo the king hath not supreme authoritie To the Maior that the greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the priests and the churche he sayeth nothing And yet some what is to be sayde thereto it is not so cléere as he makes it For sith eyther of these thrée haue their authorities in dyuers considerations the Priests authoritie may be greater than the kings authoritie in one respecte that is of his diuine actions and ministerie and yet in an other of the gouernement and publike direction the kinges authoritie is greater than his And so althoughe the Churches authoritie in one respecte be greater than bothe the Kings and the Priestes as they are bothe but membres and children of the Churche yet in regarde that the one is a Pastour and the other a gouernour and both of them Fathers and guyders as it were vnto the church their authorities againe are greater than the Churches And this also sheweth the falshood of the Minor that the Priestes and the Churche haue not lesse authoritie but are aboue the prince Which is not true but in suche respectes as nothing hinder the supreme gouernement that we giue the prince But Maister Saunders to confirme this to bée simply true the prince to be inferior to the Priests and people will proue it by his comparison of the state of the olde and newe Testament And first he will haue the state of the olde Testament in the Churches gouernement to be a figure of the newe But in the estate of the old Testament the Prince was vnder the priest and the people Ergo it must be so in the new To the maior we graunte him the gouernment of the Church in the old testament to be a figure of the churches gouernment in the new testameÌ„t And remember this well that here M. Saunders buyldes vpon For if he himselfe shal be found to swarue from it afterwarde when he findeth it shall make agaynst hym then let him blame himselfe and let vs note bothe inconstancie and cantradiction in him who playeth the snayle puttyng in and out his hornes and will say and eate his worde as he thinketh best to his aduantage And this is the fashions of them all in the examples of the old testament as we haue séene the practise of M. Feckenham M. Stapleton which is a subtile false and vnstedfast kind of dealing But go to we denie the minor that in the state of the
made a King Quéene alone Now to this he addeth out of Esai saying Esai foretolde that kings shoulde bee the nourishers of the Church of Christe and casting dovvne their countenance to the earth shall vvorship hir and streight he adioyneth thou shalt knovv that I am the Lord for this verely is the signe that the Lord raigneth in vs if vve yelde so much vnto his church that the Ministers of Christe are greater than any King or Queene As this sentence is placed both withoute all order and coherencie so the reason is very sclender and standes on this that the Priests are the Churche that Esai here speakes on which as it is apparaÌ„t false so it is not to this purpose For the supreme gouernment of a godly Prince giueth not onely an honour to the Churche but to the Priests also and yet his supremacie safe But sée how this sentence hits him as the rest For if kings and Quéenes be likened to Nourses and Nourses haue charge not onely of féeding but also of gouerning then do Kings Quéenes both féede the Church although not by teching yet by causing the truth to be taught and gouerne the Church also And if by the Church is chiefly ment the priestes then the same kind of Princes feeding and gouerning like to Nourses stretcheth to priestes also and so the similitude makes against him His other argument of dispensing Gods mysteries and Sacramentes to the king is diuers times alreadie aunswered vnto and therefore as superfluous I passe it ouer And thus farre for his argumentes of his Priestes superioritie Nowe secondly to the reasons he sheweth why he thinkes vs deceyued But thus in this case deceiueth many that they see the king is a Christian and gouerneth Christians For they knowe not or at least will not know what difference it is whether a man goueren a Christian bycause hee is a man or bycause hee is a Christian. The king indeed gouerneth Christian men but not bycause they are Christians but bycause they are men And bycause the Byshoppes also themselues are men the kings also in part are aboue Byshops The which hereby goeth cleare away if wee consâ—…ider Christian kings not onely to gouerne Christian men but euen alike oftentimes Iewes now and then Moores and Tartars for this onely that they are kings But Byshops gouerne Christians so as they can gouerne no other as they are Byshoppes Sith therefore the gouernement of the king pertaineth to all men alike but Byshops principalitie is reached to onely Christians and sith the state of our Christianitie excelleth the humaine nature that is in vs with what sence is he endued that preâ—…erreth the gouernoure of our bodily and fleshely nature before the prieste that watcheth for our soules and that either loseth our sinnes if wee make worthie fruites of repentance or bindeth them if we beare about an impenitent heart For the Ministers binding and loosing is an other question Let vs nowe kepe vs to this of the Princes supreme gouernment We are deceyued you say for lacke of considering this difference that the king gouerneth Christians not as Christians but as men and we thinke you arâ—… deceyued your selfe M. Saunders and would 〈◊〉 others for not considering this difference in the king him selfe in whoÌ„ we ought to consider not onely that he is a king but also a Christian king In that he is a king he geuerneth aâ—… his subjects as ye say a like so farre as the likenesse or 〈◊〉 of their sâ—…ates will permit whether they be Christian Iewes Turkes Mores â—…aitars Ethniks or whatsoeuer religioÌ„ they be of not in respecte of their religions nor in the they are 〈◊〉 neither but in respect they are his 〈◊〉 For ther are other men also that are none of his subjectes â—…ra euery man in that he is a man is no subiect to another man but frée Neither in that he is a christian to speake preperly of the abstracte he is vnder any other than Christe in whom there is no difference of countrey state degrée or person as your selfe afterwarde coÌ„fesse in the 4. chapter How â–ª beit as the king himselfe is of the Christianâ—… religion and a Christian king of a christian kingdome as al kings kingdomes ought to be although they be not so hath he an other charge and gouernement of his christian subiectes farre aboue that they be naturall men or this or that cruÌ„trey meÌ„ euen that they be christians committed to his gouernment And therefore this charge was giuen the king of Gods people in his institution Dâ—…ute 17. That he should haue Gods worde alwayes with him and make religion the chiefe end of his gouernement And this your selfe haue graunted alreadie pag. 80 excepte ye will contrary your selfe as ye often doe But this case is too apparant that a christian Prince regardeth further than the body or than the naturall or polytike man For being a christian Prince he regardeth them as christian subiectes and not alike to such subiectes as are Heathen Turkes and Tartars which is a shameful sclander For as the christian Prince hath a speciall regarde to his christian subiectes before his Infidell subiects so they being subiects of vnlike condition he gouerns them nothing a like The one being out of the houshold of fayth although in the housholde of his kingdome The other being of bothe the housholdes and therefore the faythfull Prince hath fuller authoritie ouer them as wel for the religion of their soules as for their goodes and bodies But saye you the Byshoppe bath respecte only to the soule I say still would to God your Byshops had so But doth this hinder the Princes superioriue that hath respect to soule and bodie too The argumentes of Constantine Theodosius and Constantius are somewhat touched alreadie and I reserue the further handling of theÌ„ to the practise and treatise of the stories The 3. part of this chapter is a dissuasioÌ„ from the Princes supreme gouernment by the successe thereof Wherin first he begins with the most famous Prince King Henrie the. 8 the Queenes Matesties father the noblest and moste fortunate king that euer bare crowne in England now when his soule is crouned in the kingdome of heauen with eternal glorie his body with honor interred in his Sepulcher his immortal fame yet fresh liuing in the memorie mouthes of al nations sée these spitefull Papistes will leaue off with more than villanous reproches moste traiterously to rayle vpoÌ„ him Saying that he first called himself the Chief head of the Church of England Ireland immediately vnder Christ Besides that he was neuer the happier but much more vnhappie Upbrayding his wiues vnto him The couÌ„terfeting of the money and the pilling of his subiects â—… wicked Papistes past all shame and grace Howe truely dyd the Apostle Iude prophecie of you that 〈◊〉 â—…ulers and blaspheme â—…hem that 〈◊〉 authoritie Was King Henrie the
and the childe after the sixth yeare of his gouernement beyng deade God placed a woman ouer the kingdome of Englande who also ought to haue bene furder from gouerning the Church than a childe for euen the kinde whiche at the laste displeased not in a childe so displeased the holy Ghost in a woman so farre as pertaineth to the gouernment of the Church that he in whom Christ spake doubted not to write I permitte not a woman to teach in the Church If you recken the yeares of King Edwardes raigne to inferre by the taking of him awaye so soone Gods misliking of his gouernement as you still shewe your malicious and ouer saucie constructions of gods iudgementes so ye bewray withall the foudnesse of your argumentes Did not Quéene Marie raigne a shorter while than hée and why note ye not the yeares of hir raigne also but this you ouerpasse in sylence and turne your argumente to hir kynde in that shee was a woman to argue Gods displeasure for the Princes gouernemente of the Churche but ye alleage nothyng that ye alledged not before oute of Sainte Paule I permitte not a vvoman to teache in the Churche neyther to vsurpe authoritie ouer the man but to bee in sylence Trow you Maister Saunders this is to bée stretched to gouernemente that no woman maye haue anye authoritie to gouerne a man if ye construe it thus howe will ye make your former saying good that the ryghte of a kingdome pertayneth no lesse to vvomen than to men alledging the examples of Debora Athalia and Alexandra and the lawe Num. 27. ye muste néedes therefore confesse that he speaketh there no otherwyse than â—…ée dothe 1. Corinthians 14. of women not simply but of suche women as are wiues Neyther of all authoritie but of authoritie ouer the husbande Neyther of all speaking exhorting or commaunding but of the publique ministerie of preaching And thus doth your owne Cardinall Caietane expounde it Docere supple publice c. neque dominari directe hoc respicit vxores to teach to wite publikly c. neither to rule this is directly spokeÌ„ of vviues And so Catharinus hic locus manifeste de coniugata intelligitur c. This place manifestlye is vnderstoode of a vvife in the same sence vvherein it is read in another place let vvomen holde their peace in the Churches for it is not permitted to them to speake but to bee subiecte euen as the lavve saith But by the vvaye vvee muste bevvare that iniurie be done to none Although by no meanes it be the office of anye vvoman to teache notvvythstanding if anye vvoman bee endued vvith singular grace of God for God is free from all lavve that coulde bee able to doe these thyngs vvhen it shoulde bee thought meete shee vvere not to be hindred chiefelye hauing the gifte of prophecie but it vvere lavvfull for hir to speake freelye As is read of Olda and Debora that iudged the people of Israell as is apparant in the booke of the iudges Doth not the Apostle also warne that the former holde his peace if it be reuealed to another For we know that that glorious and one of the most deere spoâ—…ses of Christ Saint Katherine of Senes taught in times paâ—…e and hath made sermons yea euen in the publique consistoâ—…e of the Pope although she toke not vpon hir these things but with good leaue of Christs owne vicaâ—… who best knewe in 〈◊〉 to be the true spirite of God and the feruencie of charitie to be giuen hir to edifie the Churche in those troublous tymes when the scisme raigned c. Thus farre and furder saith this Popishe Bishop whereby it appereth that the Papists theÌ„ selues vnderstande not this sentence of Saint Paule for a simple debarre to all women no not to preache in the open Churche if neede so required so that she haue the Popes leaue And can the Pope giue leaue in a time of scisme to maintaine his factioÌ„ when two or thrée Popes striue for the triple diademe and to Saint hir for hir labour And shall it not be lawfull for a Christian Quéene not attempting hir selfe to preache to set forth by the authoritie due to all princes suche lawes whereby gods truth maye be preached by those that are lawfully called therevnto may not a Quéenâ—… by vertue of hir royall office in the open assemblye of hir owne subiects speake exhort persuade and commaunde hir people being also the Church of Christ to abolish al errors and receiue the onely truth of God was it lawfull for the Empresse Irene to publishe hir decrees in the Churche for the erecting of Images against the worde of God and is it not lawfull for the Quéenes Maiestie by publique decrées to pull them downe and forbid the worship of them according to gods worde this sentence therefore euen by theyr owne witnesse is but wrested to debarre a womans gouernment of the Church But Maister Saunders procéeding on his argument for Quéene Marie saith To the same purpose it came that the greate goodnesse of God called such a Queene to the rule of the kingdome that both sawe this selfe same thing and confessed it For Queene Marie not onely toke not this proude title of the head of the Church but also when she was admonished of others â–ª that she would be like hir father she brought forth most weightie reasons why she ought not to do it VVhervpon she chiefely exhorting therto that title was omitted and the proper honour restored to the successors of Peter If the title as ye saye M. Saunders be proude Quéene Marie had done wel to leaue it but your Pope not ouer wel to take it howbeit this title as King Henry and King Edwarde before toke it was no proude title but a title of their charge and duetie And therefore she ought to haue retained it nor did well in leauing it and rendring it to a foraigne prelate that had nought to do therwith And in whoÌ„ in deede it is both a proude and an Antichristian title both spoyling Christian Princes of their principall office in their particular estates and also bereauing Christ of his glory ouer his vniuersall Churche Neither can he claime it as successor of Peter Peter neuer hauing the possessioÌ„ of it And what waightie reasons soeuer she persuaded hir selfe withall to shake it off she taking the kingdome on hir the waight and burden lay still on hir charge before god And if your reason be ought of the effect and sequele of this hir refusall into what extréeme miserie was this Realme broughte in so shorte a time by the Legates spoyling by the Prelats burning by the Italians pilling by the FrenchmeÌ„s winning by the Spaniardes oppressing and by gods diuine Iustice scourging the Realme with strange diseases droughts waters dearthes to conclude the Quéene hir selfe and crowne impouerished all the Realme in daunger of perpetuall thraldome and vtter vndoyng if God of his infinite mercie
life for me he can not be my Disciple much more then must he hate his kingdome and be readie to leaue his kingdome and all the good in the vvorlde for Christe or else hee is no Christian. You say true M. Sanders he must forsake and hate al for Christes sake But that he must do this for your Byshoppes sakes when they will say it is expedient he should so do that I finde not in the words of Christe and yet muste you beware howe you expounde that saying For he is bound also to loue and to kéepe to the vttermost all these thinges in their kindes not to renounce nor hate theÌ„ except they hinder him from Christ whom he must prefer before al things But this loue to Christe in principall maye stande togither with these loues wel inough Neither is he any more bounde to resigne his kingdome than to resigne his vvife into the Priestes hands Nor if he abuse his kingdome the Prieste can no more turne him out of it than he can if he abuse his goods and his vvife turne him not of his dores and take his goodes and his vvife from him and kéepe hir himself or giue hir vnto an other This can not the Byshop do although the Prince and euerie man be bounde to lose al for Christes cause Yea the Byshop is bounde hereto as well as any other And God knowes how some of them kepe this bonde and yet wil not they léese one halfpennie for Christes sake howsoeuer they breake it But the kingdome is a â—…oule moate in their eye and therefore the King poore soule must lose all and they must take it from him But now to Master Saunders other arguments Moreouer the kingdomes of faithfull Princes whose people feare God are not altogether earthly or worldlye For in that part that they haue beleued in Christ they haue as it were lefte to be of this worlde and haue begonne to be members of the eternall kingdome for although the outwarde face of things which is founde in kingdomes meere secular be in a Christian kingdome yet sith the spirite of man is farre the more excellent parte of hym and the whole spirite acknowledgeth Christ his King and onely Lorde I see nothing why Christian kingdomes ought not rather to be Iudged spirituall according to their better part than earthly And this is the cause why nowe long since those which gouerned the people of God were wont to be annoynted of his Ministers no otherwise than were the Prophetes and Priestes For euen the Kings them selues also are after a sort partakers of the spirituall Ministerie when they are annoynted not that they should do those things that are committed to the onely Priestes herevnto orderly consecrated but that those things which other Kings referre to a prophane and worldly ende these Kings should now remember that they oughte to directe to an holye ende For when they themselues are made spirituall it is fitte they should will that all their things should be counted as it were spirituall But nowe are spirituall things so vnder the Church of Christ that the Church may freely dispose and decree of them to the profite of the whole mysticall body Syth therefore the people of Israell woulde needes desire a King to be giuen them Samuel by the commaundement of God toke a cruse of oyle and powred it vpon the heade of Saule and kissed him and sayd beholde God annoynteth thee to be the Prince ouer his inheritaunce VVhich to me seemeth to signifie euen as though it had bene sayde except the Lord annoynted thee to be the Prince thou couldest not rightly and orderly be the Prince ouer hys people whiche hee hathe chosen and reserued out of all the worlde to be as it were peculiar to hymselfe For in that that is gods no man can take power to him selfe without Gods permission But God anoynted Saul to be the Prince not by himselfe but by Samuel his minister wherfore whosoeuer ruleth ouer the Christian people which is no lesse acceptable to God than was the people of the Iewes hee besides the right which he receyueth of God by the consent of the people ought also to acknowledge his power to be of Christe by his Ministers if so be that he be suche an one that worshippeth the Fayth of Christe VVherevpon to thys day all Christian kingdomes are annoynted of some Christian Bishop or some other Minister of God referring therein their principalitie not onely to the people and so vnto God but that moreouer by the Priests of Christ they referre it vnto Christ whose Ministers they are For Pope Leo wrote elegantly vnto Leo the Emperour Thou oughtest to marke stedfastly the Kingly power not onely to bee giuen to thee to the gouernement of the worlde but to be giuen thee chiefly for the succour of the Churche that in suppressing naughtie attemptes thou shouldest bothe defende those things that are well decreed and restore the true peace to those things that are troubled If Maister Saunders woulde goe plainely to woorke and make his argumentes shorte and formall and woulde rather shewe his Logike than his Rethorike the truth or falsehoode woulde appéere the sooner the reader perhappes mighte be the lesse delyghted but withoute perhappes hee shoulde be lesse beguyled and the aunswere mighte bée the clearer and the shorter â—…ll this long argument in effect is this All spirituall things are so vnder the Church of Christ that the Church may freely dispose and decree of them to the prosite of the whole mysticall body All Christian Kings and kingdomes are spirituall things Ergo all Christian Kings and Kingdomes are so vnder the Church of Christ that she maye freely dispose and decree of them to the prosite of the whole mysticall body And firste Maister Saunders trauels in the Minor. To proue Christian Kyngs and Kyngdomes spirituall that bycause the better parte of them is spirituall therefore hée seeth nothyng why they oughte not to bee rather iudged spirituall Yea Kings were woâ—…e to bee annoynted no otherwyse than Prophetes and Priestes not to doe theyr actions but to referre all theyr affayres to holy and spirituall dedes And can you sée this Maister Sanders Now how chance you coulde not seeit before when you made the Christian Princes ciuill power to be no better than the Turkes or Tartars to stretch no furder thaÌ„ to the body a quiet lyfe haue you now espied not onely the endes wherevnto they rule but the estate also itselfe by reason of the better parte to be spirituall what hath made you see so cléerely nowe forsooth now is now and then was then You were pleading then that the Christian Princes ciuill estate was so farre different and vnlike that Princes might not meddle in spirituall matters and therfore then was fitte oportunitie to denie that Christian Princes Ciuill power had any spirituall thing in it But nowe we are in another argument that Priestes maye order and dispose
togither that your Pope might haue both powers in him but still what is this to the purpose that Bishops may depose Kings VVhether of these therfore say you shal obtaine the chiefer parts in the body of the Churche shall not the spirituall power which is giuen of God himself by Iesus Christ to that end that it might minister iustice spirite and life vnto vs as for the kingly power came in deede froÌ„ God but not onely properly by Christ as he is the Sauior but also by the sense of the minde conspiring the will of the people whether it were faithful or vnfaithful neither could of it self at any time pertaine vnto heaueÌ„ or minister life vnto hir subiects If therfore the chiefe parts in the body of the Church belong to the spirituall power â–ª truely that ought of righte to gouerne and rule the kingly and all earthly power that is founde in the same body of the Church Yet again M. San. I think aboue twentie times we haue graunted you the due superioritie of the true spiritual power I put to these words due and true bicause neither is your spiritual power the true spiritual power but rather an earthly and carnall power and that spiritualnesse that it hathe is rather from the spirituall power of darknesse than of the spirite of truthe and was neuer of God nor by Christ nor administreth iustice spirite nor lyfe but iniquitie sensualitie and death nor pertayneth to heauen but leadeth to hell I meane the spirituall power of the Popishe spiritualtie The spirituall power of the Ministers of Christe I graunte dothe all these thinges you speake of and therefore it hathe a superioritie but suche as is due vnto it in the ministration of these aforesayde things and not to encroche vpon suche superioritie as belongeth to Christian Princes But to stayne the Princes power you call it earthly and so it is in some respecte but it is heauenly in other respects also bicause it came from God and it representeth the diuine power of god It came from God you saye but not by Christe but by the peoples consent Howe true this is is partly answeres before and S. Paule sayth Omnis potestas est à Deo all power is of God. Is not Christ God howe then came it not from Christ And is not this spoken of the wisedome of God which is Christ Per me reges regnant Kings rule by me You make exception not by Christ as sauiour Is not Christ aswel a sauiour in that he is king as he is a sauior in that he is priest Not that say you the Princes power of it selfe pertaynes to heaueÌ„ or ministreth life What it doth of it selfe we force not M. sand we speake of Christian kinges representing Christe the sauior Not that the Kinges power saueth no more doth the Priestes power but onely the power of Christ that is both King and Priest but that by either of these Christ worketh meanes towardes our saluation and so bothe pertayne to heauen and minister life also the Bishops power in setting foorthe Gods worde and SacrameÌ„ts the Princes power in ouerséeing that both the Bishops and clergie set them foorthe duely and that the people duetifully recoyue them But still what is this to the purpose for the Bishop to depose Princes shall we neuer come to our matter agayne this is a long vagarie But go on M. sand euen whether you list to wander For as in the same body of man all the members ought to obey the commaundement of reason onely of the minde bicause in the same body is nothing higher than the minde so also in the Churche whiche is like a mans body sithe the spirituall power gouerneth as the minde and reason all other power that is founde in the Churche besides ought of necessitie to be subiect to the spirituall power Ought I saye to be subiect not euery where nor altogither but onely in those things that pertaine to the saluation of soules and to the proper iurisdiction of the Churche And haue you spyed this nowe â–ª M. Sanders that the spirituall power in the churche is like to the rule of reason in our body but onely in these things How then pertayneth it to depose kinges to dispose translate and occupie kingdomes to cause subiects rebell which is the proper question héere in hande Do these thinges pertaine to saluation are these thinges the proper iurisdiction of the Churche â–ª then surely it is a proper Churche and it hath a proper iurisdiction or we shall make a proper saluation of â—…oules and you haue made a proper péece of worke so properly to proue your argument of the Princes deposition for the whiche I sâ—…ill â—…rie for some proofe but you haue belike forgotten it For shame M. Saund. come once agayne to your matter but go to nowe at the length you wil drawe neerer to it For if the earthly power do iniurie to the spouse of Christ or do not defende it from the iniurie of other when it may or in any thing faynte from iustice and truthe those that gouerne the church of God ought to admonish the ciuil Magistrate that he should decline from euill and do good But and if the ciuill Magistrate will not so amende himselfe they must make haste to other remedies for it can not be in a wel ordered citie but that for euery euill that may fall out there is a remedie prepared Nowe M. sand this geare beginnes to cotten For remembring at length your idle vagarie you drawe neerer to your matters for the Princes deposing And héere you presuppose thrée things either that the Church hath iniurie offred hir by the Prince either that the Prince where he may defendes hir not from others iniuries either that he himself faynteth from iustice and truthe Héere say you what remedie Those that gouerne the Church of God ought to admonishe the ciuill Magistrate that he shoulde decline from euill and do good For the admonition it is well and truly sayde M. sand and would to God the Pastors woulde thus do in these your presupposed cases â–ª But héere is no deposition of the Magistrate Howbeit craftily euen héere you haue as good as deposed him already For you make your selues â—…ose only that gouerne the Church of God and call the Prince â–ª but the ciuill Magistrate as thoughe he gouerned not also the Church of God and had nothing to do therwith but onely with ciuill affaires and that the Priestes haue all the gouernaunce of Gods Churche But as this is false neither haue you nor can you proue this but still reason à petitione principij taking that for an vndoubted true principle that is chiefly denied that you are the onely gouernors of the Church of God. So nowe that whiche you presuppose in the Prince let vs presuppose the like in you If you that call your selues the Church â–ª haue at any
eyes to see eares to heare and handes to feele we can not choose but beholde it in the face 434. a. Ye had neede looke well to your selfe remember nowe among other things master Horne c. Take heede master Horne Thinke vpon this at your good laysure remember also howe ye stande c. VVherein I pray you resteth a great part of your newe clergie B. But in Butchers C. Cookes Catchpoles and Coblers D. Diers Daubers F. Fellons Fishermen G. Gunners H. Harpers I. Inkeepers M. Merchants and Mariners N. Netmakers P. Potters Poticaries and Porters of Belingsgate R. Ruffling Ruffians S. Sadlers Sheremen and Shepeheardes T. Tanners Tylers Tinkers Trumpetters VV. VVeauers VVherrymen 481. a. b. This and such other is his Rhetorik eyther flourishing with 〈◊〉 wordes running on a letter and nowe and then sifting the whole crosse rowe for them Or else doubling and trâ—…bling of 〈◊〉 phrases or multiplying of wordes with which euery sentence is in a maner farced For 〈◊〉 is not commonly content to expresse his minde with one worde be it 〈◊〉 so plaine except he vnderproppâ—… it with an other at the least as thus miserable and wretched peruerting and deprauing The full illustration and opening of whole and entyre matter Euidently and openly disciphered and disclosed espied and vnbuckled bewrayed and detected opened illustred and confirmed Which as it is most vaine babling so is it altogither vnworthy the noting except briefly to shew the reader what kinde of vanitie he hath puft vp this his Counterblast withall His sixt common place of impertinent discourses His ovvne obiection of the same LIke a wanton Spaniell hee runneth from his game at riot 243. Master Horne sayth he seeketh out bye matters leauing the principall as the Donatistes did 321. a. That thou mayest the better sée howe he obserueth this and kéepeth himselfe to his matter or no first beholde the issue and state of the question betwéene the Bishop and M. Fëckhenham which is this VVhether any Prince haue taken on them any such supreme gouernment as dothe the Q. Maiestie in ecclesiasticall causes Which issue to be resolued in Master Feckenham desireth the proufe by any of these foure wayes eyther by the Scriptures or by the Doctors or by the Councels or by the continuall practise in any one part of Christendome To the which issue by all these foure said wayes the Bishop directeth all his prooues and in this first booke he prooueth it by two of them the Scriptures and the Doctors Now whether Master Stapleton kéepe himself to this issue or to the proufes thereof or to the Bishops answere without playing the wanton Spaniell and the part of the Donâ—… iudge when thou hast read this his sixt common place And withall thou shalt sée what good plentie of bye matters he had in store when substantiall matter â—…ayled him In his first Preface taking on him to gather abriefe summe of such things as he thought specially he might deface the Bishop withall throughout all his Preface he neuer setteth 〈◊〉 the issue in controuersie but quarelleth about other things with the Bishops rashnesse follie Grammer Logike Rhetorike Arithmetike And where at the length he speaketh of king Henrie 1. his dealings in punishing Priestes whoredome to shewe â—…ow of purpose he séeketh out his quarelles he slinketh from the Princes dealing wherewith he is vrged and sayth this is not the thing we now seeke for but to know what kinde of whoredome it was that the Priestes shoulde be punished for Pag. 12. And Pag. 18. letting go the matter that he is in hande withall he discourseth agaynst the Bishop of Sarum about Sabellicus titles In the 2. Preface where he bindeth himselfe 〈◊〉 than in the. 1. to declare the whole pith of the question and course of the Bishops and his owne â—…ke he digresseth into a common quarell about diuersitie of fects and heresies which he ascribeth to the Protestants he câ—…eth into Greece Affrica Bohemia Hungarie Lifelande pag. 30 and so commeth home to Englande digressing from the question and issue to English bookes to forbidding of the Bible to be read to the iudgemeÌ„t of Lambert to burning to religious houses Pag. 31. to vowes to repealing lawes to setting forth a newe religion to mariage of Priestes to consecrating â–ª Bishops to the reall presence Pag. 32. Then runneth he to search out discorde in the Protestants and quarelling about wordes in the act and iniunction he maketh an exhortation to returne to the Romaine Church 33. 34. 35. In the aunswere to the Bishops Preface the first whole diuision fo 1. 2. a. b. A loâ—…g impertinent discourse to molliâ—…e master Feckenhams pretence for setting out his booke A number of bie matters falsely charging the Bishop with diuerse impertinent slaunders 2. b. 3. a. Pretending to direct the reader to the question here in trouersie for the nonce he setteth vp a number of newe markes that master Feckenham and the Bishop medleth not withall 3. b. Fol. 4. a. He quarelleth at the Bishop of Sarum for the 600. yeares and the Bishop of Winchester for alleaging testimonies of later yeares calling this vneuen dealing of the Protestants He quarelleth about precise wordes He maketh a new chalenge to the Bishop he chargeth the Bishop of a late bragge none of all these things belonging any whit to the matter 4. b. 5. a. In his first booke A long outrode whether the Bishop were well called by M. Feck the Lorde Bishop of VVinchester or no. 7. a. b. Whether he be Bishop or prelate of the Garter 7. b. succession of Bishops 8. a â–ª against the mariage of Bishops of flesh on Frydayes of a Pigge turned into a Pike That the Protestants be Heretikes euen by the Apologie of England 8. b. An inuectiue against the actes of Parliament of altering religion agaynst the will of the whole clergie that the Bishop can not defende himselfe to bee a Bishop by any lawe of the Realme About the reall presence transubstantiation and adoration 9. a. Deniall of free will the necessitie of baptising children vnlawfull mariage 9. b. A long inuectiue agaynst the disputation at VVestminster Anno. reginae 1. with a number of friuolous excuses whie they shranke from it 12. a. b. 13. a. A long digression almost of 13. leaues togither nothing to the question but discoursing into all countreys Boheme Germanie Denmarke Swethland Brabant Hollande Flaunders Lukelande Englande Fraunce Scotlande Saxonie Hessia VVestphalia besides many townes and Cities chiefly about the businesse in the lowe Countreys to deface the Gospell by the tumults there raysed as the worlde well séeth onely by the practises of the Papists Fol. 33. b. Hauing mentioned the plague he falleth into wicked ghessing that the procedings in that Parliament were the cause of the plague that reigned at London and once againe a â—…ing at the Bishops that they be no Church nor yet Parliament Bishops A long impertinent bibble babble about master Feckenhams ioly disputations begon at London and ended at
VVorcester 36. b. 37. a An Inuectiue against heresie that it openeth the truth 37. a A comparison of the ignoraunce of thâ—… greatest learned men among the Papists in king Henryes dayes and the cleare knowledge that the Louanists haue nâ—…we 38 a. b. Master Feckenham his repentaunce for confessing the Kings title of supremacie 38. b. A biâ—… quarell at the Bishop for calling this sentence of the Booke of Wisedome In 〈◊〉 ammam non introâ—…it sapientia A sentence of the holy ghost Whervpon he concludeth a discorde in the Protestants writing 39. a. Where he should replie 39. b. 40. a To the Bishops answere he aunswereth not a worde but séeketh starting holes out of another aunswere that he threapeth on the Bishop to haue made before to chalenge him thereby with falshood as being variable in his aunsweres and so aunswering nothing runneth quite from the matter In steade of aunswere in the Bishops argument out of Deut. 13. and. 17. he runneth to a néedelesse proufe that Heresie is a very Idoll And once againe that we haue no warrant by act of Parliament for mariage of ministers for oure doctrine of the Sacrament for our wrytinges and preachings 42. a. When he should aunswere in the ensample of Iosue he is in hand with M. D. Harding and the Apologie with M. Dorman and M. Nowell quarelling for ciphers in misquoting for 〈◊〉 maâ—…er Dâ—…rmans theâ—…tes for laye mens presumption to go before Priestes for altering religion at the conuocation 46. b. Challenging the Bishop for running at randon from the marke and willing the Reader to regarde the marke he setteth vp of purpose ix false markes nothing nere the issue in question betwene the Bishop and M. Feck and vnder pretence of those nine markes runneth himselfe at randon into aboue xix impertinent matters of the Iewes acknowledging one high Priest of altering religion of the auncientnesse of Poperie 53. b. of the Priests othe on their Priesthood of abandoning the Pope and general councels of the authoritie of the Scriptures of the determining heresies by them of foraigne authoritie of bestowing ecclesiastical liuings Of Bishops letters patents of restraining their iurisdiction of inhibiting from preaching of payment of tenthes and first fruites of the priuilege of the heathen priestes of Egypt of writing the Queenes title of Priestes receiuing the othe of exempting the nobilitie of a woman Prince and in the ende of all this of Robin Hood and little Iohn and bicause he shooteth at these markes he sayth he hath shot awrie like a blinde man. 54. a. b. 55. a. Where he shoulde directly aunswere to that wherewith master Feckenham is by the Bishop charged for refusing all the prooues of the olde Testament to play the part of a Donatist Master Stapleton snatcheth herevpon occasion to runne out from his matter and to gather togither first a great rabble partly of heresies partly of no heresies to charge vs withall and then trauayleth to heape vp a number of poynts labouring thereby to proue the Protestants to be Donatists medling by this occasion with euery matter that he thought he might enlarge his booke withall with sectes and diuisions with bragging of multitudes with viciousnesse of life of tying the Church to this or that place of corrupting the fathers of visions and myracles of vaunting of Councels of a generall Apostacie of beginning and continuance of doctrine and Bishops of complayning of good Princes and praysing of ill of defacing the Sacraments and incredible crueltie of the Emperours lawes and the holye Gospels of murthering others and themselues of false martyrs all which sauing his long discourse of thrée or foure pages agaynst master Foxes booke which I remitte to him to be answered is aunswered for his importunitie sake though much of it be more fullie aunswered by others and also quite extrauagant from the matter in hande 57. 58. 59. 60. 61. 62. Fol. 65. He chalengeth vs to be blasphemers he is in hande with contempt of the number of the sacraments with prouinciall and generall Councels with another fling at M. Foxes booke of Martyrs about the articles of Sir Thomas Hitton priest 〈◊〉 Sir Iohn Oldcastle Knight the Lorde of Cobham for putting of heretikes to death for compelling to receyue the fayth for manslaughter 66. a. b. Once againe he is in hande with his olde quarell of Images Idols and the Crosse. 68. b. Where he should aunswere to the Bishops allegations out of Nicephorus he letteth them all alone and medleth with other matters nothing to the purpose as with Michael Paleologus Emperour of Greece with thalenging the Grecians for heresies with the heresie of the holy ghost to proceede onely from the father and not from the sonne with the Councell at Lions with the accordment betwene the Grecians and the Latine Church with their reuolt from the same with the spite of the Greeke Bishops From thence he runneth to other matters rayling on the Authour of the Homelie agaynst Idolatrie for calling Michael â–ª Theodorus about his depriuing and funerals that the question of Images was not mooued at the Councell of Lions of the setting vp and continuance of Images in the Greeke Church From hence he runneth to quarelling about the names of Valence and Valentinian and of his and Theodosius his lawe agaynst the picture of the Crosse. Against Bishop Iewel for citing it out of Crinitus simplie as the same Crinitus doth Hereon he entreth into a generall inuectiue agaynst the reading of the Homelies nowe â—…et forth and falleth in praysing of the Homelies in the Popish Church 76. b. 77. a. In steade of aunswering to the Bishops argument out of Saint Paule and Chrysostomes allegation thereon he is in hande againe with master Foxe for setting forth the doyngs of Doctour VVesalian with the Bishop to be but a poore Clearke with the aduauncing of Bishop VVhite and Bishop Gardiner with chalenging the Bishop to be of the Grecians opinion agaynst the proceeding of the holye Ghost from the father and the sonne with the decaye of the Empyre of Greece with a comparison betwéene the decay of Hierusalem besieged at Easter by the Romaynes and the Captiuitie of Constantinople besieged at VVhitsontide by the Turkes with the poynting of Gods â—…ynger wyth the Realmes of Fraunce Scotlande Germanie with the vaunting of his owne plaine and true going to woorke with Michaell and Andronicus once againe and none of all these things eyther aunswering the Bishop or perteyning to the question Last of al where he taketh on him to set downe the state of the question he setteth vp many newe questions neyther in hand betwéene the Bishop and master Feckenham nor any whit defended by vs but méere slaunders of the Papistes of the Princes preaching the woorde of God ministring the Sacraments binding and losing c. Thus handsomely hath he kept himselfe close to the matter and yet euer he crieth haue an eye to the marke and willeth vs still to call for the question and yet himselfe hath thus