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A07802 The dovvnefall of poperie proposed by way of a new challenge to all English Iesuits and Iesuited or Italianized papists: daring them all iointly, and euery one of them seuerally, to make answere thereunto if they can, or haue any truth on their side; knowing for a truth that otherwise all the world will crie with open mouths, fie vpon them, and their patched hotch-potch religion. Bell, Thomas, fl. 1593-1610. 1604 (1604) STC 1818; ESTC S113800 116,542 172

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may not onely truly but also iustly require reward at Gods hands in regard of his promise freely made vnto vs. But I euer denie withall that any reward is due to our best workes for any condigne merit or desert of or in our workes Gods free acceptation mercie and promise set apart For as Saint Austen grauely saith Vae etiam laudabili vitae hominum si remota misericordia discutias eam Woe euen to the best liuer vpon earth if thou examine his life thy mercy set apart Answere ô papists if ye can and if ye cannot then repent and yeeld vnto the truth for shame I challenge you I prouoke you to the combat I adiure you all ioyntlie and euery one of you seuerally for the credite of your cause for the honour of your Pope and the life of popish doctrine which now lieth bleeding and wil shortly yeeld vp the Ghost if some soueraigne remedie bee not speedily prouided for the same The sixt Article Of the Popish distinction of mortall and veniall sinnes ALthough it be true that all sinnes are not equall but one greater than another and although it be also true that in a good and godly sence some sinne may be tearmed mortall and some veniall which yet may more fitly be called sinnes regnant and not regnant neuerthelesse most true it is to the euerlasting confusion of all impenitent papists that euery sinne is mortall of it owne nature and onely veniall by way of Gods free acceptation and mercie for his owne name sake and merits of his deare sonne our Lord Iesus I prooue it first both briefely and euidently For Christ himselfe telleth vs in his holy Gospell that we must giue a straight account of euery idle word in the generall day of iudgement And for no other end doubtlesse must this account be made but onely because euery idle word is flatly against the law of God This the papists can neuer denie it is euident to euery child And yet must they likewise confesse that idle words be those sinnes which they call venials And consequently they must confesse against their wils and against their professed Romish doctrine that all sinnes are mortall that is to say against the law of God This doctrine of our Sauiour Christ Iesus is confirmed by the testimonie of S. Iohn his beloued Apostle where he telleth vs that euery sinne is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is the transgression of Gods law as is alreadie prooued at large in the fourth article of concupiscence And the Hebrew word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth a declining from the right way doth plainely confirme the same Secondly because our popish Rhemists confesse in plaine tearms that euery sinne is a swaruing from the law of God For doubtlesse that which swarueth from the law is truly said to be against the law but not agreeable to the law Thirdly because the famous popish Frier and Romish bishop Iosephus Angles teacheth the same doctrine in his booke dedicated to the Pope himselfe These are his own expresse words Omne peccatum veniale est alicuius legis transgressio Patet quia omne veniale est contra rectam rationem agere contra rectam rationē est agere contra legem naturalem precipientem non esse à regula rectae rationis deuiandum Euery sinne veniall is the transgression of some law This is cleere because euery veniall sinne is against right reason and to doe against right reason is to doe against the law of nature which commaundeth vs not to depart or swarue from the rule of right reason Loe euery veniall sinne is against right reason and against the law of nature which is giuen to euery one in his creation in his birth or natiuitie Fourthly because Durandus another famous papist confuteth the late receiued popish opinion of Thomas Aquinas which the Pope and his Iesuits hold to wit that veniall sinnes are preter legem non contra Besides the law but not against the law These are Du●ands owne words Ad argumentum dicendum quod omne peccatum est contra legem dei naturalem vel inspiratam vel ab eis deriuatam To the argument answere must be made that euery sinne is against the law of God either naturall or inspired or deriued from them And this opinion of M. Durand is this day commonly defended in the popish vniuersities and schooles So saith Frier Ioseph these are his words D. Thomas eius sectatores tenent peccatum veniale non tam esse contra legem quam preter legem Sequitur Durandus tamen alij permulti hanc sententiam impugnant affirmantes peccata venialia esse contra mandata Et haec opinio modo in scbolis videtur communior S. Thomas and his followers hold that a veniall sinne is not so much against the law as besides the law But Durand and many others impugne this opinion auouching veniall sinnes to be against the commaundements And this opinion seemeth now adaies to be more common in the schooles Here I wish the reader to note by the way out of the word modo now adaies the mutabilitie of Romish religion For in that he saith modo now adaies he giueth vs to vnderstand that their doctrine is now otherwise than it was of old and in former ages A note worthie to be remembred For the old Romane religion was catholicke pure and sound and with it doe not I contend but I impugne late Romish faith and doctrine which the Pope and his Romish Schoole-men haue brought into the Church Fiftly because their canonized martyr Iohn Fisher the late bishop of Rochester teacheth the same doctrine so plainely as euery child must needs perceiue the truth in that behalfe These are his expresse words Quod peccatum veniale solum ex dei misericordia veniale sit in hoc tecum sentio That a veniall sinne is onely veniall through the mercie of God and not of it owne nature therein doe I agree vnto you Thus saith our bishop And as he telleth me that he agreeth with Luther therein so doe I tell our Iesuites that I agree with him with Durand Almaine and the other papists that teach the same doctrine Sixtly because Gerson another famous popish writer holdeth the same opinion These are his expresse words Nulla offensa dei est venialis de se nisi tantum modo per respectum ad diuinam misericordiam qui non vult de facto quamlibet offensam imputare ad mortem cum illud posset iustissimè Et ita concluditur quod peccatum mortale veniale in esse tali non distinguuntur intrinsecè essentialiter sed solum per respectum ad diuinam gratiam quae peccatum istud imputat ad poenam mortis aliud non No offence of God is veniall of it owne nature but onely in respect of Gods mercie who will not de facto imputa euery offence to death though he might doe it most iustly And
should raign 1000 yeeres after the generall resurrection Basilius another holy father saith that Zacharias the sonne of Barachias slaine betweene the altar and the temple was father to S. Iohn the baptist These absurdities the papists are this day ashamed to hold and yet did these fathers receiue them by Apostolicall so supposed tradition as their own famous doctor Andradius graunteth willingly Fiftly popish tradition telleth vs that all the bishops of Rome one after another haue taught succesiuely the selfesame doctrine with S. Peter Howbeit their own deere doctor and religious frier Nicholaus de Lyra auoucheth plainely roundly and boldly to the whole world that many bishops of Rome haue fallen away from the faith and become flat Apostataes And least this my narration be thought strange vnto many that our holy fathers the Popes should be Atheists or Apostataes and that their own deare brethren in high esteeme among them would neuer so write of them I will deale plainely in this important point and after my wonted manner set downe his owne expresse words Thus doth he write Ex quo patet quod ecclesia non consistit in hominibus ratione potestatis vel dignitatis ecclesiasticae vel secularis quia multi principes et summi pontifices et alij inscriores inuenti sunt a side apostatasse Propter quod ecclesia consistit in illis personis in quibus est notitia vera et confessio fidei et veritatis VVhereby it is euident that the Church doth not consist in men by reason of power or dignitie either ecclesiasticall or secular because many princes and Popes and others of the inferiour sort are found to haue beene apostataes and to haue swarued wholie from faith For which cause the Church consisteth in those persons in whom there is true knowledge and confession of the faith and of the truth Thus writeth this learned papist whom their owne so supposed martyr sir Thomas Moore called a great clearke as he was indeed whose words are well worthie to be engrauen in marble with golden letters For by his iudgement it is cleare and euident that not they who sit in S. Peters chaire are euer the true and lawfull successors of S. Peter but they only and solely that confesse and preach S. Peters faith and doctrine as also that their receiued maxime vbi Papa ibi Roma vbi Roma ibi ecclesia catholica is false vaine and friuolous VVe therefore this day impugne nothing in popish proceedings but the selfesame indeed which famous popish doctors reproued afore our time and that in their publicke writings published freely to the whole world VVhich thing whosoeuer will seriously ponder as my selfe haue done that man must perforce detest and abhorre all popish superstitious trumperie But of this argument I haue discoursed at large in my booke of Motiues Sixtly popish tradition telleth vs that the blessed virgine Marie the true mother of true God and true man was conceiued without originall sinne and that the bishop of Rome did for that end ordaine a feastiuall day of her conception to be kept vpon the eight of December But by your leaue Aquinas their owne Angelicall Doctor affirmeth resolutely that she was conceiued in originall sinne Yea their other holy doctor and deare frier Bernard doth very sharpely reprooue the Cathedrall Church of Lyons because they obserued the feastiuitie of the conception of the blessed virgine and the calleth that their practise the noueltie of presumption the mother of temeritie the sister of superstition and the daughtet of leuitie That done he addeth these words Hoc non est virginem honor are sed honori detrahere This is not to giue honour to the virgine but to take honour from her Yet Pope Sixtus the fourth did institute the feast of the conception Seuenthly popish tradition telleth vs that the emperour Constantine worthily surnamed the Great was baptised at Rome in a font there remaining to this day my self haue seene the same Howbeit Hieronymus Eusebius Socrates Theodoritus Sozomenus Cassiodorus and Pomponius doe all affirme very cōstantly that he was baptised at Nichomedia Eightly popish tradition hath brought flat idolatrie into the Church teaching to adore them as saints and Gods friends who were known heretickes and professed enemies to God and his Church This to be so their owne deare friend and brother Platina will tell them when he affirmeth the dead corps of Hermannus to haue been worshipped for a saints reliques at Ferrara the space of twentie yeares together who for all that was an hereticke as the same Platina auoucheth VVhere two speciall things are to be obserued seriously first the vncertainetie of vnwritten traditions secondly the danger in giuing credit to the same Now it remaineth for the better contentation of the reader to make answere to such obiections in defence of popish traditions as the papists haue euer in their mouths and boast of them as if they were insoluble The first Obiection VVe doe not know which bookes of the scripture are canonicall and which are not but onely by the vnwritten traditions of the Church And yet is this a matter of faith and very necessarie vnto saluation The answere This is that mightie obiection wherein the papists glorie and boast beyond all measure and say more rashly than wisely that it can neuer be truly answered I therefore shall desire the gentle reader to ponder well my words and then to iudge of the matter as right reason shall prescribe My answere is this First there is great ods betweene the primitiue Church and the Church of late daies VVhich to be so the famous popish doctor Durandus will contest with me For the Apostles as Durand saith wisely heard Christs doctrine saw Christs myracles and were replenished with the holy ghost and consequently they must needs be fit witnesses of all that Christ did and taught But these adiuncts cannot be rightly ascribed to the late bishops of Rome and their cursed Iesuited brood Secondly the old testament was deliuered by the Iewes and confirmed by Christ and his Apostles and therefore as the papists admit that tradition and withall doe reiect their other manifold vnwritten traditions which the Iews in their Talmud affirme to be of Moses euen so doe we receiue this tradition and reiect all vnwritten traditions contrarie to the same Thirdly the bookes of the new testament are but an exposition of the law and the Prophets as I haue alreadie prooued in the first proposition of this present article And consequently it may be discerned and tried by the same as the godly Bereans tried S. Paules preaching Fourthly when we affirme all things necessarie for our saluation to be comprised and contained in the scriptures we then speake of them as they are acknowledged and agreed vpon both among the Iewes for the old Testament in the which the new is comprehended and ioyntly for the old and new throughout the Christian world And
so I conclude that mortall and veniall sinnes as they be such are not distinguished intrinse cally and essentially but onely in respect of Gods grace which assigneth one sinne to the paine or torture of death and not another Thus writeth this famous popish bishop who was a man of high esteeme in the counsell of Constance Whose onely testimonie if his words be well marked is able to confound the papists and to strike them dead For first he telleth them plainely that euery sinne is mortall of it owne nature Secondly that no sinne is veniall saue only in respect of Gods mercie Thirdly that God may most iustly iustissimè condeme vs for the least sinne we do Note seriously gentle reader the word iustissimè Fourthly that mortall and veniall sinnes are the same intrinse cally and essentially and differ but accidentally that is to say they differ in accident but not in nature in quantitie but not in qualitie in mercy but not in deformitie in the subiect but not in the obiect in imputation but not in enormitie saue onely that the one is a greater mortall sinne than is the other For as Gerson auoucheth we may iustly be damned for the least sinne of all howsoeuer other papists doe flatter themselues in their cursed deformed venials Seuenthly because sinne in generall is the transgression of Gods law as S. Ambrose defineth it yea euery word deed or desire against Gods law as S. Austen describeth it Their words are set downe in the fourth article of this discourse Eightly because the Iesuit Bellarmine vnawares confesseth the same against himselfe These are his owne words Respondeo omne peccatum esse contra legem dei non positiuam sed aternam vt Aug. rectè docet Omnis enim iusta lex siue à deo siue ab bomine detur ab aterna dei lege deriuatur Est enim aterna lex vt malum sit viol are regulam I answere that euery sinne is against the law of God not positiue but eternall as Austen teacheth rightly For euery iust law whether it be given of God or of man is deriued from the eternal law of God For the eternall law is that it is euill to offend against the rule These are our Iesuits owne words which as euery child can easily discerne doe euidently confute himselfe and his Romish doctrine For first vnder euery sinne must needs be contained their veniall sinnes or els some sinnes shall be no sinnes which implieth flat contradiction Secondly he tel●eth vs that euery sinne and consequently veniall sinnes are against the eternall law of God Thirdly he graunteth that they are not onely besides the law sed contra legem but euen against the law Fourthly hence it is cleere and euident that the law eternall is the chiefe and principall law of all other laws seeing from it all other lawes are deriued Ninthly because the papists cannot possibly yeeld any sound reason why in the sinnes of theft one shall be mortall and another veniall For example sake let vs suppose one at one time to steale so many egs as will make a mortall sinne by Romish doctrine another at another time to steale so many as will make a venial sinne by the same doctrine then I demaund of our papists Why God cannot iustly condemne the theefe to hell that stealeth but so many egs and for all that can iustly condemne him to eternall torment that stealeth but one only egge aboue the said number For this must they doe and a good reason here of must they yeeld which I am well assured they can neuer do or els confesse euery sinne to be mortall and so against their wils to subscribe to mine opinion Answere ô papists if ye can if ye cannot then repent for shame and yeeld vnto the truth The seuenth Article Of popish vnwritten traditions THe papists beare the world in hand that many things necessarie for mans saluation are not conteined in the holy scriptures of the old and new testament and consequently that none can be saued but such as beleeue their vnwritten traditions and what their Pope telleth them For the exact knowledge whereof I put downe these propositions The first Proposition with the first reason THe written word or holy scripture containeth in it selfe euery doctrine necessarie for mans saluation I prooue it by the manifold texts both of the old and new testament by the authoritie of the holy fathers and by the the testimonie of renowned and best approoued popish writers Ex testamente veteri Locus primus Ye shall not add to the word which I speak vnto you neither shall ye take any thing away from it Againe thus That which I command that only doe thou to the Lord. Neither add any thing nor take any thing away Againe thus Only be thou strong and of a valiant courage that thou mayest obserue and doe according to all the law which Moses my seruant hath cōmanded thee Thou shalt not turne away from it neither to the right hand nor to the left Bee carefull that ye keepe all things which are written in the booke of the law of Moses that ye decline not from them neither to the right hand nor to the left By these manifold texts we may see euidently that the holy scriptures are most perfect and that nothing may bee taken from them neither any thing added to them But doubtlesse if all doctrine necessarie for mans saluation were not sufficiently conteined in them then of necessitie many things should be added to them Bellarmine the mouth of all papists answereth to these and the like places that they are not spoken of the written word precisely but of Gods word generally which is partly written and partly vnwritten Non ait inquit ille ad verbum quod scripsi sed quod ego precipio He saith not quoth our Iesuite to the word which I haue written but which I command But doublesse this is a miserable shift and a very childish answere For first God himselfe wrote his owne wordes in two tables of stone and then deliuered them to Moses Yea after Moses had broken the said tables in his vehement zeale against Idolatrie God commanded Moses to hew two other tables of stone like to the first in which he writ againe the wordes that were in the first tables and commanded Moses to put them vp in an arke of wood Secondly Moses expounded the law of God to the Israelites at large VVhich large explication of the law God himselfe commanded him to write and to giue the same to the Israelites that they might put it in the side of the arke of the couenant and there keepe it for a witnesse against them Thirdly God commanded Iosue to keepe and obserue all things which were written in the booke of the law which Moses had deliuered to the Leuites charging him to meditate therein day and night that he might doe according to the same Fourthly Moses telleth
spirit but to trie the spirits if they be of God For this cause doth S. Paule pronounce him accursed that preacheth any doctrine not contained in the scriptures For both S. Austen and S. Basill doe expound that place of the written word And the truth thereof is alreadie prooued because the Apostles taught no needfull doctrine which they did not after commit to writing S. Cyprian would not yeeld to Stephanus then bishop of Rome in the controuersie concerning rebaptization but sharpely reprooued him for leaning to tradition and demaunded of him by what scripture he could prooue his tradition For in his daies it was not ynough to alleadge tradition for the proofe of any doctrine And much lesse was it a rule in Saint Cyprians time to follow the bishop of Romes definitiue sentence in matters of faith and doctrin Though our sottish and blind papists in these latter dayes doe admit and reuerence his sentence euen as the holy Gospell See S. Cyprians words in the first proposition VVhen the Arrians would not admit the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because it was not found in the scriptures the fathers of the counsell did not then alleadge traditions for proofe thereof neither did they say that many things must be beleeued which are not written but they answered simply That though that word were not expressely written yet was it virtually and effectually contained in the scriptures This assertion is euident by the testimonie of Saint Athanasius whose words are these Sed tamen cognoscat quisquis est studiosioris animi has voces tametsi in scripturis non reperiantur habere tamen eas eam sententiam quam scripturae volunt Although the expresse words be not found in the scripture yet haue they that meaning and sence which the scripture approoueth and intendeth as euery one that studieth the scripture seriously may easily vnderstand Origen giueth counsell to trie all doctrines by the scriptures euen as pure gold is tried by the touchstone His words are set downe at large in my booke of Motiues and they are well worth the reading Tertullian hath these words Id esse verum quodcunque primum id esse adulterum quodcunque posterius VVe must know that that it is the truth whatsoeuer was first and that that is counterfeit whatsoeuer commeth after the first S. Austen hath many golden sentences and worthie testimonies to this end and purpose One only I will here recount where he hath these wordes Nemo mihi dicat ô quid dixit Donatus aut quid dixit Parmenianus aut Pontius aut quilibet illorum quia nec Catholicis episcopis consentiendum est sicubi forte falluntur vt contra canonicas dei scripturas aliquid sentiant Let no man say to me oh what said Donatus or what said Parmenianus or Pontius or any of them because wee must not consent euen to Catholicke bishops if it so fall out that they erre in any point and speake against the canonicall scriptures Saint Chrysostome surnamed the golden mouthed doctor agreeth vniformely vnto the other fathers in many places of his workes One onely period shall for the present suffice where he hath these golden wordes Quomodo autem non absurdum est propter pecunias alijs non credere sed ipsas numerare supputare prorebus autem amphoribus aliorum sententiam sequi simpliciter presertim cum habeamus omnium exactissimam trutinam gnomonem acregulam diuinarum inquam legum assertionem Ideo obsecro oro omnes vos vt relinquatis quidnam hinc vel illi videatur deque his àscripturishaec etiam iniquirite et veras diuitias difcentes eas sectemur vt aeterna bona assequamur How can it but be absurd that in money matters we will not credite others but will tell the money our selues and for all that in affaires of greater importance which concerne the health aud saluation of our soules we can be content simply to follow the iudgement and opinion of others especially when wee haue the most exact ballance squire and rule of all things I meane the plaine testimonie of Gods lawes I therefore pray and beseech you all that you will reiect what this man or that man thinketh and search the truth out of the scriptures that learning true riches we may follow them and so attaine eternall life Behold here gentle reader a most excellent and Christian exhortation a very godly and golden aduiso giuen vs by this holy father If wee will not saith he trust others to tell our money but for surenesse will tell it our selues much lesse should wee trust others and much lesse depend vpon their iudgements and sayings in matters touching our saluation but our selues must learne and know such things by diligent reading of the holy scriptures Neither must we beleeue what this or that man saith but what we find to be true by painefull studie of the holy scriptures Now let vs heare attentiuely what the best approoued papists teach vs concerning this important and most weightie controuersie Franciscus à victoria a learned schoole-man and Spanish popish frier yeelds his opinion in these expresse wordes Propter quas opiniones nullo modo debeà us discedere à regula synceritate scripturarum For which opinions we may in no wise depart from the rule and synceritie of the scriptures Againe in another place he hath these words Non est mihi certum licet in hoc conueniant omnes quia in scriptura non habetur I doe not thinke it sure and certaine although all writers agree thereunto because it is not to be found in the holy scriptures Melchior Canus another learned schoole-doctor and renowned popish bishop confirmeth the same doctrine in these words Fatemur non audiendos esse sacerdotes nisi docuerint iuxta legem domiui VVe graunt that we must not giue eare or hearken to the priests except they shall teach vs according to Gods law Loe the papists affirme plainely that no doctrine is sound or to be receiued but that onely which is tried to be true by Gods word Neither may we beleeue the doctrin of any popish priest vnlesse it be agreeable to Gods law Now doubtlesse if the Pope will be tried and iudged by this doctrine which his best doctors haue published to the world the spirit of God hauing enforced them thereunto we shall soone agree in all controuersies of religion And certes this their doctrine is so certaine and euident that the Iesuit Bellarmine singeth the same song with them which my selfe could not easily haue beleeued if I had not read his owne testimonie in his owne booke These are his expresse words Sine dubio singuli episcopi errare possunt aliquando errant inter se quandoque dissentiunt vt nesciamus quisnam eorum sequendus sit It is without all doubt that all bishops seuerally may erre and sometime doe erre and doe so disagree among themselues that we
the Popes iudgement alone is infalliable VVherefore they ad this clause to salue the Popes proceedings That councels are called not for necessitie sake but for the better contentation of the weake I therefore conclude against the popish supposed bulwarke that seeing all bishops may erre seuerally as the Iesuit Bellarmine hath taught vs and seeing also that the constitutions in popish councels are nothing else in deed but the bare decrees of one onely bishop as is alreadie prooued it followeth of necessite and cannot be denied that all bishops in the popish Church may erre egregiously and that as well iointly as seuerally as is to be seene at large in my Golden ballance of triall to which treatise I referre the reader for better satisfaction both touching the Popes double person and concerning his priuate and publike errors In the interim I must needs tell the papists that a generall councell is aboue the Pope that a generall councell hath power to depose the Pope that a generall councell did de facto depose Iohn the 12 long sithence and Iohn the 13 of that name as I haue prooued at large by sound popish testimonie in my Anatomie of popish tyrannie And thus haue I prooued that the sole and onely scripture inspired from heauen is the infalliable rule of truth and that all traditions must bee examined by the same and then addmitted when they be consonant thereunto not otherwise howsoeuer antiquitie be pretended in that behalfe The fourth Proposition Popish vnwritten traditions are so vncertaine and doubtfull that the best learned papists are at great contention about them and cannot possibly be accorded therein For the proofe of this proposition it were ynough to call to mind that great and endlesse strife which was in the Church about 1400 yeeres sithence betweene Victor then Bishop of Rome and the bishops of Asia The controuersie was among them concerning the keeping of Easter Tradition apostolicall was alledged earnestly and both sides did stoutly defend the same The same tradition was in controuersie afore Polycarpus the bishop of Smyrna and Anicetus the Bishop of Rome But neither could Polycarpe perswade Anicetus nor Anicetus perswade Polycarpus albeit they both agreed as deere friends The storie is set done at large by Eusebius a learned father and most famous historiographer But Victor the Bishop of Rome dealt so furiously in that controuersie that Ireneus and other bishops of Gallia did sharply reprooue him for the same VVhat need more bee said for the varietie and vncertaintie of traditious For first the bishops that thought and taught thus diuersly of tradions did all of them liue within 200 yeeres after Christ at which time the Church was in in good estate and stayned with very few or no corruptions at all Secondly the one side doubtlesse must needs be seduced with false and vnsound traditions For apostolicall doctrine was vniforme and constant and could not possible bee contrarie to it selfe Thirdly Saint Policarpe Polycrates and the other bishops did in those dayes make no more reckoning of the bishop of Romes opinion than they did of another mans Fourthly they all were so farre from acknowledging the bishop of Rome to be the supreme head of the Church and that he could not erre that they all with vniforme assent affirmed him to defend a grosse errour and to hold a false opinion that they all reputed themselues his equals touching gouernment ecclesiasticall that they all verie sharpely reprooued him and with might and maine withstood his proceedings VVhereas this day if any bishops magistrates or other potentates in the world where poperie beareth the sway should doe the like they might all roundly be excommunicated and not onely deposed from their iurisdiction but also be burnt with fire an faggot for their paines Fiftly if Saint Polycarpe had cause in his time being the flourishing age of the Church to doubt of romish traditions much more doubtlesse haue wee cause at this day to stand in doubt thereof in these doolefull dayes I say in which iniquitie hath gotten the vpper hand in which the bishops of Rome haue brought an huge multitude of errors into the Church and seduced a great part of the Christian world Another controuersie touching traditions is for and about the keeping of Lent For albeit Saint Chrysostome tel vs plainely that Christ did not commaund vs to imitate his fast but to learne of him to be humble and meeke in heart yet doe the papists this day mordicus defend it to be an apostolicall tradition yea many of them are so blinded and besotted with vnsauorie traditions and superstitious illusions that they deeme it a greater sinne to eat flesh in Lent than to commit adulterie murder or periurie Of this vnwritten tradition falsly supposed apostolical Eusebius Caesariensis a famous historigrapher of great antiquitie writeth in this maner Non solum de die paschae agiter controuersia sed de ipsa specie ieiunij Quidam enim putant vno tantum die obseruari debere ieunium alij doubus alij vero pluribus nonnulli etiam quadraginta Quae varietas obseruantiae non nunc primum neque nostris temporibus coepit sed multò ante nos ex illis vt opinor qui non simpliciter quod ab initio traditū est tenentes in alium morem vel per negligentiam vel per imperitiam postmodum dicidêre The controuersie is not onely touching the day of Easter but alos concerning the very king or manner of fasting For some thinke they must onely fast one day some two dayes others moe dayes and there bee that thinke they should fast fourtie VVhich varietie of fasting did not now begin first neither yet in our daies but long before our time I thinke by them who keeping not simply what they receiued from the beginning did afterward fall to another manner either of negligence or els of ignorance Socrates in like manner reporteth hystorically that they differed no lesse in their manner of eating than they did in their daies of abstaining For some saith he would eat no liuing thing othersome of liuing things ate onely fish some together with fish did eat also birds but some ate only bread and others at night ate all kind of meates without difference Yea he telleth vs in the same place that the Romans fast three weekes before Easter besides the Sabboth and the Lords day And that the Illyrians and Alexandrians do fast six weekes and yet do they all tearm their fasts Lent By which testimonies euery man may easily perceiue how doubtfull and vncertaine vnwritten traditions be Thirdly there was another endlesse controuersie concerning traditions betweene the Greeks and the Latins whether the Eucharist ought to be celebrated in leauened or in vnleauened bread Fourthly Irenaeus a very auntient father affirmeth out of Apostolicall tradition that Christ was fortie yeeres old when he suffered his bitter passion Papias another father saith vpon the like traditiō that Christ
the catholike Church and there hath reckoned vp the consent of peoples and nations authoritie begun with miracles nourished with hope increased with charitie established with antiquitie succession of priests from Saint Peters seat and the name of Catholike he addeth that though these things bee great motiues to keepe him in the vnitie of the Church yet must the truth of the scriptures be preferred before them all In regard whereof he promiseth to giue more credit to Manichaeus than to the Church and to yeeld vnto his doctrine if he shal be able to prooue it out of the scripture In the meane while he must giue him leaue to preferre the credit of the catholike Church before his bare wordes especially seeing the Church but not Manichaeus was the outward meanes and externall helpe that brought him to the faith of the Gospell The second Obiection The baptisme of infants is a matter of faith but not conteined in the holy scriptures ergo not all things necessarie for mans saluation are therein to be found The Answere I answere that it is contained in the scriptures and I proue it by sundry reasons The first argument is drawne from the couenant For infants being within the couenant ought not to be debarred from the signe and seale thereof I will establish my couenant betweene me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an euerlasting couenant to be God to thee and to thy seed after thee Againe you are the children of the Prophets and of the couenant which God made to our fathers saying to Abraham euen in thy seede shall all the families of the earth be blessed Againe repent and be euery one of you b●ptised in the name of Iesus Christ for the remission of sinnes and ye shall receiue the gift of the holy Ghost For the promise was made to you and to your children and to all that are a farre off euen so many as the Lord our God shall call Againe if the first fruits be holy the whole lumpe also is holy And if the roote be holy the boughes also Againe suffer the yong children and stay them not from comming vnto me for to such belongeth the kingdome of heauen And where Saint Matthew hath little children then S. Luke hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 infants which can neither vnderstand nor come Againe your children are holy yong children therefore must be baptised The second argument is drawne from the analogie of the figure of the old testament For circumcision to which baptisme succeeded did pertaine to both ages as well to yoong as to old In whom also yee are circumcised with circumcisiō made without hands by putting off the body of the flesh subiect to sinne by the circumcision of Christ buried with him in baptisme in whom yee are also risen againe through the faith of the operation of God who raised him vp from the dead Thus saith Saint Paul by whose wordes we may learne sufficiently that baptisme did succeed to circumcision for the same end vse and purpose viz. that by it we may putting off the bodie of sinfull flesh be buried together with Christ and rise again with him through faith The third argument is drawne from the practise of the Church For the Apostles of our Lord Iesus were commaunded to baptise all sorts of people withour exception Goe therefore and teach all nations baptising them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy Ghost Againe we read in the historie Apostolical that the whole house of Lydia was baptised neither yong nor old being excepted Againe we may find in the acts that the keeper of the prison at Philippos was baptised all they of his houshold incontinent Againe in another place we may read that the whole family of Stepha●●s was baptised not one at all exempted The Obiection Infants haue no faith ergo they may not be baptised The Answere I denie the antecedent because their faith and profession is this to be borne of the faithfull in the vnitie of the Catholike Church Againe though they haue not actuall faith yet haue they faith fundamentallie and by inclination In which sense our Lord Iesus doth reckon them among the faithfull when he saith in this manner VVhosoeuer shall offend one of these little ones that beleeue in me it is better for him if a milstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea Infants therefore when they are baptized in the Church for faithfull are then deemed to beleeue after their manner VVho albeit they haue not faith in act yet haue they the spirit and vertue or foundation of faith by Gods operation in them Neither ought this thing to seeme strange vnto vs. For if the infants of the wicked ones haue infidelitie and impietie though not in act yet in inclinatiō by nature as writers graunt then truly may it be said that the infants of the faithfull haue faith and pietie though not in act yet in inclination by grace For grace cannot be of lesse force through Christ than nature through the fall of Adam for God saith plainely I will be thy God and the God of thy seed after thee The third Obiection VVee beleeue the trinitie of persons in vnitie of substance but this is not in the scripture Ergo. The answere I denie the assumption for the trinitie of persons is plainly auouched in the holy Gospel where it is thus written But the comforter which is the holy Ghost whom the Father will send in my name he shall teach you all things Thus saith our Lord Iesus In which words we see mention made of three distinct persons first of the Father which sendeth secondly of the holy Ghost which is sent thirdly of the Sonne in whose name he is sent Againe in another place it is thus written There are three which beare recorde in heauen the Father the VVord and the holy Ghost and these three are one Item Matth. 28. verse 19. The fourth Obiection It is not to be found in the holy scrpture that Christ is consubstantiall and of the same substance which the Father Ergo. The Answere The antecedent is false For first in the prophesie of Zacharias I find these wordes arise O sword vpon my shepheard and vpon the man that is my fellow saith the Lord of hostes Secondly in many places of the new testament First in these words I and my Father are one Secondly in these words If ye beleeue not me beleeue the works that ye may know and beleeue that the Father is in me and I in him Thirdly in these words VVho being in the forme of God thought it no robberie to be equall with God Fourthly in these words She shall bring foorth a sonne and thou shalt call his name Iesus for he shall saue his people from their sinnes For this respect saith holy