about_o the_o premise_n i_o have_v not_o think_v amiss_o to_o resent_v in_o part_n by_o this_o postscript_n what_o occur_v unto_o i_o in_o this_o behalf_n 1._o and_o first_o of_o all_o be_v the_o wonderful_a providence_n of_o almighty_a god_n in_o conservation_n and_o continuation_n of_o the_o old_a ancient_a catholic_a apostolic_a &_o universal_a faith_n leave_v at_o the_o assension_n of_o our_o saviour_n unto_o his_o follower_n and_o visible_a church_n that_o then_o be_v and_o spread_v by_o they_o miraculous_o in_o very_o short_a space_n over_o all_o the_o world_n church_n and_o continue_v ever_o since_o by_o tradition_n and_o succession_n of_o one_o age_n to_o another_o until_o our_o time_n under_o the_o protection_n and_o mighty_a powerable_a defence_n of_o the_o same_o lord_n and_o saviour_n and_o under_o the_o government_n of_o his_o only_a espouse_v the_o say_v catholic_a church_n 4._o against_o which_o church_n &_o descent_n of_o faith_n therein_o 3._o though_o many_o new_a fantasye_n and_o device_n of_o particular_a man_n which_o holy_a scripture_n call_v heresy_n have_v spring_v up_o in_o every_o age_n with_o fresh_a and_o glisteringe_a title_n 2._o of_o pure_a gospel_n of_o new_a reveyled_a truth_n of_o godly_a reformation_n and_o other_o like_a pretence_n and_o that_o god_n for_o more_o trial_n and_o exercise_n of_o his_o say_a church_n end_n &_o for_o the_o speedy_a redress_n perhaps_o of_o some_o abuse_n and_o corrupt_a manner_n creep_v into_o some_o part_n thereof_o have_v permit_v the_o say_v new_a invention_n to_o prevail_v grow_v and_o ruffle_v for_o a_o time_n as_o by_o experience_n of_o all_o age_n we_o have_v see_v yet_o ever_o in_o the_o end_n he_o bring_v the_o same_o to_o confusion_n and_o shame_n accord_v to_o those_o word_n of_o the_o psalm_n 76_o percussit_fw-la inimicos_fw-la suos_fw-la in_o posteriora_fw-la opprobrium_fw-la sempiternum_fw-la dedit_fw-la eye_n he_o strike_v his_o enemy_n in_o the_o hinder_a part_n that_o be_v towards_o the_o end_n of_o their_o ruffle_n and_o confound_v they_o with_o everlasting_a shame_n which_o prophesy_v of_o the_o psalmist_n be_v principal_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o heretical_a enemy_n haer_fw-mi as_o tertullian_n epiphanius_n &_o other_o ancient_a father_n write_v against_o they_o do_v interpret_v and_o the_o experience_n of_o like_a end_n in_o all_o heresy_n past_a do_v make_v it_o plain_n and_o this_o shame_n and_o confusion_n of_o heresy_n &_o heretic_n heresy_n which_o god_n providence_n do_v here_o foretell_v and_o in_o time_n also_o bring_v to_o pass_v so_o manifest_o as_o the_o whole_a world_n may_v be_v witness_n thereof_o consist_v principal_o in_o four_o point_n themselves_o as_o holy_a father_n do_v note_n first_o that_o every_o new_a sect_n divide_v itself_o quick_o into_o many_o other_o sect_n and_o heresy_n which_o s._n augustine_n show_v large_o of_o the_o arrian_n 6._o and_o donatist_n and_o staphilus_n lyndanus_n and_o other_o writer_n of_o our_o time_n do_v show_v the_o same_o of_o luther_n sect_n divide_v into_o so_o many_o sect_n &_o branch_n in_o so_o few_o year_n as_o all_o the_o world_n see_v and_o stanislaus_n rescius_fw-la a_o learned_a man_n of_o polonian_a in_o his_o late_a book_n of_o the_o atheisine_n of_o haeretik_n show_v out_o of_o the_o write_n of_o protestant_n themselves_o that_o in_o the_o year_n 1596._o when_o he_o write_v his_o book_n which_o be_v but_o 4._o year_n pass_v that_o there_o be_v now_o extant_a in_o the_o world_n 270._o different_a sect_n all_o rise_v out_o of_o luther_n from_o the_o year_n 1517._o wherein_o luther_n begin_v all_o which_o he_o declare_v at_o length_n &_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o so_o great_a multiplication_n be_v give_v by_o tertullian_n in_o his_o book_n of_o prescription_n against_o heretic_n above_o 1400._o ibid._n year_n past_a say_v that_o for_o so_o much_o as_o every_o scholar_n of_o a_o sectary_n know_v that_o his_o master_n invent_v his_o opinion_n of_o his_o own_o head_n he_o will_v invent_v also_o something_o himself_o thereby_o to_o show_v that_o his_o wit_n be_v not_o inferior_a to_o that_o of_o his_o master_n and_o hereby_o they_o come_v to_o such_o confusion_n in_o the_o end_n that_o one_o destroy_v the_o other_o whereof_o luther_n himself_o be_v a_o good_a witness_n when_o he_o write_v these_o word_n 5._o true_o god_n do_v not_o fight_v by_o any_o other_o mean_n with_o heretic_n then_o by_o permittinge_n among_o they_o a_o certain_a seditious_a spirit_n of_o dissension_n by_o which_o their_o overthrow_n also_o and_o perdition_n do_v ensue_v so_o he_o who_o be_v a_o witness_n in_o this_o cause_n without_o exception_n as_o you_o know_v the_o second_o reproach_n follow_v sectarye_n be_v contradiction_n to_o themselves_o sect_n in_o their_o own_o write_n and_o say_n and_o shameful_a inconstancy_n in_o their_o doctrine_n the_o reason_n whereof_o be_v for_o that_o the_o say_a doctrine_n consystinge_v only_o in_o the_o invention_n judgement_n and_o memory_n of_o the_o sectarye_n himself_o that_o invent_v it_o or_o choose_v to_o follow_v it_o though_o invent_v by_o another_o for_o whatsoever_o they_o allege_v of_o scripture_n or_o other_o antiquity_n must_v depend_v of_o their_o own_o new_a invent_a interpretation_n of_o necessity_n it_o must_v follow_v that_o as_o their_o talent_n and_o wit_n discourse_n or_o memory_n do_v alter_v change_n or_o fail_v in_o time_n so_o must_v the_o doctrine_n also_o thereof_o dependinge_v be_v alter_v and_o so_o either_o forget_v what_o they_o say_v in_o one_o time_n or_o place_n or_o matter_n or_o have_v alter_v their_o judgement_n or_o opinion_n upon_o some_o further_a reason_n which_o then_o they_o see_v not_o they_o must_v needs_o come_v to_o say_v contrary_a to_o that_o they_o do_v before_o in_o which_o kind_n of_o contradiction_n some_o thousand_o have_v be_v note_v by_o learned_a man_n in_o luther_n himself_o lutheri_fw-la &_o no_o marvel_n see_v he_o be_v the_o first_o of_o that_o sect_n that_o invent_v new_a opinion_n daily_o and_o the_o same_o be_v observe_v in_o caluyns_n write_n by_o westphalus_n hesshusius_fw-la and_o other_o lutheran_n protestant_n that_o write_v against_o he_o the_o three_o confusion_n that_o follow_v common_o upon_o heresy_n heresy_n be_v coldness_n &_o doubtfulness_n in_o religion_n and_o at_o length_n also_o plain_a atheism_n and_o contempt_n and_o thereupon_o dissolution_n of_o life_n neglect_v of_o conscience_n and_o other_o suitable_a effect_n which_o therefore_o among_o heretic_n principal_o do_v ensue_v for_o that_o heresy_n call_n into_o question_n and_o shake_v the_o very_a pillar_n and_o strong_a mean_n whereby_o man_n remain_v assure_v before_o of_o their_o faith_n to_o wit_n the_o number_n quality_n and_o right_o understand_v of_o holy_a scripture_n tradition_n of_o the_o church_n from_o who_o we_o receive_v they_o the_o verity_n of_o ecclesiastical_a story_n christian_a miracle_n authority_n of_o general_a counsel_n credit_n of_o ancient_a father_n and_o the_o like_a and_o breakinge_v down_o beside_o the_o hedge_n and_o wall_n that_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v bulwark_n to_o good_a life_n as_o confession_n restitution_n satisfaction_n fastinge_v vowinge_v and_o other_o help_n of_o that_o quality_n this_o i_o say_v be_v once_o do_v which_o be_v the_o proper_a work_n of_o heresy_n a_o man_n run_v natural_o into_o doubt_n &_o contempt_n of_o all_o and_o consequent_o lose_v by_o little_a and_o little_a both_o fear_n and_o shame_n give_v himself_o over_o easy_o to_o all_o licentious_a liberty_n and_o sensuality_n of_o life_n which_o the_o apostle_n call_v desperation_n 1._o and_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o cause_n of_o this_o three_o reproach_n for_o as_o for_o the_o effect_n it_o self_n to_o wit_n that_o these_o fruit_n have_v follow_v in_o the_o world_n since_o heresy_n come_v in_o much_o more_o than_o ever_o before_o i_o can_v allege_v both_o luther_n himself_o december_n and_o erasmus_fw-la roterodavius_fw-la and_o other_o author_n of_o most_o credit_n with_o protestant_n testifyinge_v of_o their_o day_n and_o as_o for_o england_n it_o self_n the_o present_a knowledge_n &_o experience_n of_o thousand_o will_v bear_v i_o witness_v wherefore_o i_o mean_v to_o prosecute_v no_o further_o these_o first_o 3._o reproach_n follow_v heresy_n and_o heretic_n to_o wittâ—_n division_n among_o themselves_o contradiction_n to_o themselves_o and_o dissolution_n of_o life_n or_o propension_n to_o atheism_n though_o for_o the_o reader_n full_a instruction_n therein_o if_o he_o understand_v the_o latin_a tongue_n i_o must_v needs_o give_v he_o notice_n of_o two_o famous_a book_n write_v of_o late_a of_o that_o argument_n â—ookes_n by_o two_o excellent_a learned_a man_n of_o our_o time_n &_o take_v out_o of_o the_o work_n themselves_o of_o all_o the_o sectarye_n of_o this_o age_n the_o one_o be_v of_o our_o contreyman_n master_n william_n reynolds_n caluinoâ—turcismus_n once_o fellow_n of_o new-colledg_a in_o oxford_n &_o a_o protestant_a preacher_n entitle_v caluinoâ—_n turcismus_fw-la that_o be_v of_o
plessis_n do_v before_o but_o how_o do_v he_o go_v about_o think_v you_o to_o prove_v that_o scotus_n in_o his_o resolution_n touchinge_v the_o real_a presence_n do_v hold_v the_o same_o that_o in_o his_o objection_n against_o it_o you_o shall_v hear_v his_o own_o word_n immediate_o follow_v in_o the_o same_o matter_n ibid._n nay_o say_v he_o scotus_n seem_v rather_o to_o dislike_v transubstantiation_n then_o otherwise_o behold_v here_o the_o true_a dealing_v of_o m._n sutkliffe_n who_o give_v we_o quid_fw-la pro_fw-la quo_fw-la as_o apothecaryes_n be_v wont_a he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o scotus_n determine_v in_o his_o resolution_n against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o now_o he_o say_v that_o scotus_n seem_v rather_o to_o dislike_v transubstantiation_n then_o otherwise_o so_o as_o for_o the_o real_a presence_n quo_fw-la here_o be_v thrust_v in_o transubstantiation_n and_o for_o determination_n and_o resolution_n be_v shuffle_v in_o a_o seeminge_v to_o dislike_v rather_o than_o otherwise_o be_v there_o ever_o any_o such_o good_a apothecary_n that_o give_v quid_fw-la pro_fw-la quo_fw-la and_o if_o here_o to_o help_v himself_o out_o he_o will_v say_v that_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n be_v all_o one_o controversy_n he_o impugn_v himself_o in_o the_o very_a next_o place_n of_o durand_n as_o you_o shall_v see_v when_o we_o come_v to_o it_o where_o he_o affirm_v durand_n to_o hold_v and_o it_o be_v true_a and_o scotus_n hold_v the_o same_o also_o that_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n may_v have_v be_v by_o other_o mean_n then_o by_o transubstantiation_n if_o god_n will_v have_v have_v it_o so_o and_o consequent_o be_v distinct_a thing_n and_o hereof_o also_o i_o do_v convince_v o._n e._n of_o another_o false_a trick_n of_o thrustinge_v in_o the_o word_n by_o transubstantiation_n a_o little_a before_o in_o recytinge_v the_o question_n of_o scotus_n which_o be_v not_o in_o sâ—otus_n himself_o nor_o in_o his_o word_n more_o true_o allege_v in_o this_o behalf_n by_o plessis_n as_o before_o you_o may_v see_v for_o that_o scotus_n question_n be_v whether_o christ_n body_n be_v real_o contain_v under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n dealing_v and_o this_o fellow_n propose_v it_o thus_o whether_o christ_n body_n be_v real_o by_o transubstantiation_n contain_v etc._n etc._n and_o this_o to_o the_o end_n he_o may_v deceive_v his_o reader_n as_o here_o he_o do_v by_o leapinge_v from_o the_o one_o to_o the_o other_o when_o he_o be_v press_v or_o gaul_v whereas_o scotus_n do_v handle_v these_o two_o controversy_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n as_o different_a and_o distinct_a thing_n not_o only_o in_o sundry_a question_n but_o in_o sundry_a distinction_n also_o to_o wit_n the_o first_o in_o the_o ten_o the_o second_o in_o the_o eleven_o distinction_n upon_o the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n so_o as_o here_o i_o must_v represent_v unto_o you_o the_o boldness_n or_o ignorance_n of_o o._n e._n to_o exceed_v much_o that_o of_o master_n plessis_n his_o client_n and_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o controversy_n about_o the_o real_a presence_n but_o now_o lest_o you_o may_v think_v he_o have_v somewhat_o more_o to_o say_v to_o prove_v scotus_n to_o be_v against_o transubstantiation_n then_o against_o the_o real_a presence_n how_o for_o that_o he_o so_o leap_v from_o the_o one_o to_o the_o other_o let_v we_o hear_v his_o argument_n though_o you_o must_v note_v by_o the_o way_n his_o nice_a assertion_n in_o say_v that_o scotus_n seem_v rather_o to_o dislike_v transubstantiation_n then_o otherwise_o and_o his_o argument_n be_v two_o objection_n of_o scotus_n against_o transubstantiation_n as_o the_o other_o be_v before_o against_o the_o real_a presence_n the_o first_o objection_n objection_n of_o scotus_n against_o himself_o be_v for_o that_o bread_n together_o with_o his_o accident_n or_o species_n do_v more_o represent_v unto_o we_o the_o nature_n of_o spiritual_a food_n without_o transubstantiation_n than_o the_o bare_a accident_n by_o and_o after_o transubstantiation_n ergo_fw-la the_o nature_n of_o the_o encharist_n in_o this_o respect_n of_o nourishment_n may_v have_v be_v conserve_v though_o god_n have_v not_o appoint_v transubstantiation_n but_o his_o body_n to_o have_v be_v together_o with_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n which_o argument_n you_o see_v make_v against_o the_o alleager_v o._n e._n flat_o for_o that_o it_o prove_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n to_o be_v distinct_a thing_n and_o that_o the_o one_o may_v have_v be_v without_o the_o other_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v foolish_o bring_v by_o o._n e._n see_v it_o be_v not_o only_o a_o objection_n and_o no_o resolution_n but_o also_o a_o objection_n that_o impugn_v his_o assertion_n the_o second_o objection_n objection_n of_o scotus_n against_o transubstantiation_n isâ—_n that_o in_o misterye_n of_o our_o faith_n that_o interpretation_n seem_v most_o to_o be_v admit_v which_o require_v least_o miracle_n for_o maintayninge_v thereof_o but_o few_o miracle_n seem_v to_o be_v require_v without_o transubstantiation_n then_o with_o transubstantiation_n ergo_fw-la we_o shall_v rather_o admit_v the_o reality_n of_o christ_n body_n together_o with_o bread_n without_o transubstantiation_n than_o the_o same_o body_n with_o only_a accident_n of_o bread_n by_o transubstantiation_n these_o be_v two_o objection_n among_o other_o make_v by_o scotus_n against_o transubstantiation_n above_o fifty_o leaf_n after_o his_o former_a objection_n against_o the_o real_a presence_n which_o objection_n after_o his_o resolution_n set_v down_o for_o transubstantiation_n he_o answer_v &_o solve_v begin_v thus_o ad_fw-la argumenta_fw-la etc._n etc._n now_o must_v we_o answer_v the_o argument_n make_v to_o the_o contrary_a etc._n etc._n but_o yet_o about_o the_o first_o objection_n he_o repeat_v again_o dico_fw-la quod_fw-la bené_fw-fr fuisset_fw-la deo_fw-la possibile_fw-la instituisse_fw-la 3._o quod_fw-la corpus_fw-la verè_fw-la esset_fw-la praesens_fw-la substantia_fw-la panis_fw-la manente_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o say_v that_o if_o god_n will_v he_o have_v be_v well_o able_a to_o have_v appoint_v his_o body_n to_o have_v be_v present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n together_o with_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n without_o transubstantiation_n etc._n etc._n but_o have_v appoint_v otherwise_o as_o appear_v by_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n we_o be_v not_o to_o respect_v more_o or_o few_o miracle_n etc._n etc._n and_o hence_o now_o you_o see_v that_o o._n e._n endeavoringe_v to_o deliver_v plessis_n from_o the_o shame_n of_o cytinge_n scotus_n his_o objection_n for_o his_o resolution_n in_o the_o controversy_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n himself_o bring_v forth_o tow_v more_o objection_n for_o resolution_n without_o see_v the_o shame_n thereof_o about_o the_o article_n of_o transubstantiation_n 12._o yea_o &_o further_o blush_v not_o to_o infer_v thereupon_o this_o conclusion_n that_o scotus_n plain_o mislike_v that_o interpretation_n that_o without_o diverse_a miracle_n can_v be_v maintain_v etc._n etc._n lie_n and_o that_o albeit_o he_o be_v content_a to_o subscribe_v to_o the_o pope_n determination_n &_o dare_v not_o do_v otherwise_o yet_o that_o he_o himselse_n think_v otherwise_o etc._n etc._n o_o jesus_n what_o shall_v a_o man_n say_v of_o these_o manner_n of_o people_n let_v we_o hear_v scotus_n his_o own_o word_n in_o the_o same_o place_n where_o he_o talk_v of_o the_o church_n determination_n &_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n for_o this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n dico_fw-la say_v he_o quod_fw-la eo_fw-la spiritu_fw-la expositae_fw-la sunt_fw-la scripturae_fw-la quo_fw-la conditae_fw-la 3._o &_o ita_fw-la supponendum_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la catholica_fw-la eo_fw-la spiritu_fw-la exposuit_fw-la quo_fw-la tradita_fw-la est_fw-la nobis_fw-la fides_fw-la spiritu_fw-la scilicet_fw-la veritatis_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o do_v day_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v expound_v by_o the_o same_o spirit_n by_o which_o they_o be_v write_v and_o so_o we_o must_v suppose_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v expound_v they_o unto_o we_o to_o wit_n the_o scripture_n that_o concern_v this_o mystery_n of_o transubstantiation_n with_o that_o spirit_n wherewith_o our_o faith_n be_v deliver_v unto_o we_o that_o be_v to_o say_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n etc._n etc._n lo_o here_o scotus_n found_v the_o truth_n of_o transubstantiation_n not_o upon_o the_o pope_n determination_n or_o upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n only_o as_o false_o o._n e._n charge_v he_o but_o upon_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n expound_v by_o the_o church_n with_o the_o same_o spirit_n of_o truth_n whereby_o they_o be_v write_v and_o consequent_o be_v far_o of_o from_o plain_o mislikinge_v this_o interpretation_n as_o o._n e._n affirm_v but_o for_o that_o among_o other_o argument_n scotus_n name_v the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n the_o calumniator_n that_o can_v not_o abide_v the_o word_n charge_v he_o present_o to_o be_v move_v only_o with_o that_o reason_n what_o will_v he_o have_v
book_n against_o the_o mass_n leaf_n by_o leaf_n and_o line_n by_o line_n as_o he_o require_v which_o demand_n of_o he_o discover_v if_o we_o shall_v yield_v thereunto_o will_v under_o a_o fair_a protext_n of_o trial_n make_v his_o offer_n equivalent_a to_o a_o flat_a refusal_n for_o beside_o that_o there_o will_v hardly_o be_v find_v out_o any_o deputye_n of_o such_o patience_n to_o try_v the_o matter_n but_o they_o will_v be_v weary_v before_o they_o have_v examine_v in_o this_o manner_n the_o ten_o part_n of_o this_o his_o work_n there_o will_v be_v find_v also_o in_o every_o leaf_n some_o allegation_n not_o so_o clear_o false_a as_o the_o rest_n the_o which_o if_o we_o shall_v 2._o pass_v over_o than_o will_v he_o take_v they_o as_o admit_v by_o we_o for_o true_a and_o so_o take_v witness_v thereof_o to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o if_o we_o stay_v and_o strive_v about_o they_o he_o will_v then_o of_o purpose_n settle_v the_o whole_a disputation_n upon_o the_o first_o of_o those_o which_o he_o shall_v think_v might_n long_o be_v continue_v to_o hinder_v thereby_o the_o examininge_n of_o the_o rest_n for_o these_o cause_n then_o as_o also_o for_o that_o it_o appertain_v notto_n he_o who_o be_v accuse_v of_o falsification_n to_o choose_v out_o the_o point_n upon_o the_o which_o he_o be_v to_o be_v examine_v but_o to_o they_o rather_o which_o do_v accuse_v he_o to_o propose_v the_o article_n which_o they_o be_v to_o object_v against_o he_o for_o these_o cause_n i_o say_v see_v here_o good_a reader_n the_o protestation_n i_o make_v before_o god_n &_o man_n i_o protest_v that_o i_o do_v bind_v myself_o to_o show_v he_o in_o any_o place_n furnish_v of_o book_n and_o in_o such_o company_n of_o capable_a man_n as_o it_o may_v please_v the_o k._n majesty_n to_o ordain_v yea_o in_o the_o presence_n of_o his_o majesty_n if_o it_o may_v please_v the_o same_o to_o take_v contentment_n to_o be_v present_a at_o some_o part_n thereof_o five_o hundred_o enormous_a he_o and_o open_a falsification_n without_o any_o amplification_n or_o exaggeration_n and_o all_o these_o contain_v in_o his_o only_a late_a book_n against_o the_o mass_n the_o which_o five_o hundred_o falsification_n i_o will_v choose_v our_o among_o a_o far_o great_a number_n to_o the_o end_n i_o may_v avoid_v tediousness_n and_o i_o will_v choose_v they_o all_o so_o plain_a and_o manifest_a as_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o need_n of_o any_o further_a disputation_n to_o prove_v &_o convince_v they_o than_o the_o only_o open_v of_o the_o book_n which_o himself_o do_v allege_v and_o more_o over_o i_o say_v that_o if_o after_o this_o our_o conference_n end_v he_o will_v take_v upon_o he_o for_o his_o part_n to_o choose_v among_o all_o the_o citation_n of_o his_o book_n or_o of_o his_o book_n becauseâ—_n he_o speak_v in_o general_n any_o such_o authoritye_n as_o he_o think_v most_o sure_a and_o to_o make_v most_o for_o his_o advantage_n &_o most_o against_o we_o i_o do_v bind_v myself_o for_o conclusion_n of_o all_o to_o refute_v the_o whole_a choice_n corrupt_a that_o he_o shall_v have_v make_v thereof_o &_o to_o show_v that_o neither_o in_o his_o say_a book_n against_o the_o mass_n nor_o in_o his_o treatise_n of_o the_o church_n nor_o in_o he_o common_a wealth_n of_o tradition_n be_v there_o to_o be_v find_v so_o much_o as_o any_o one_o place_n among_o they_o all_o which_o be_v not_o either_o false_o cite_v or_o impertinent_a to_o the_o matter_n or_o unprofitable_o allege_v and_o this_o will_v i_o show_v by_o the_o very_a text_n of_o greek_a and_o latyn_n copy_n of_o the_o author_n themselves_o print_v at_o geneva_n basill_n heydelberge_n &_o other_o town_n of_o protestant_n all_o which_o notwithstanding_o i_o desire_n shall_v be_v understand_v as_o not_o speak_v against_o the_o honour_n in_o particular_a of_o the_o l._n plessis_n who_o in_o all_o other_o thing_n which_o concern_v not_o the_o interest_n of_o religion_n i_o esteem_v accord_v to_o his_o quality_n and_o merit_n neither_o do_v i_o hereby_o pretend_v to_o blame_v he_o for_o any_o other_o thing_n then_o that_o he_o have_v be_v over_o credulous_a in_o believe_v the_o false_a relation_n &_o collection_n of_o other_o that_o have_v endeavour_v to_o abuse_v the_o industry_n &_o authority_n of_o his_o pen._n and_o whereas_o he_o demand_v instant_o that_o i_o shall_v join_v with_o he_o to_o present_v a_o supplication_n unto_o the_o k._n majesty_n for_o trial_n aforesaid_a i_o declare_v again_o by_o this_o my_o writing_n that_o i_o do_v whole_o agree_v thereunto_o and_o join_v with_o he_o therein_o plessis_n &_o do_v make_v account_n for_o this_o present_a time_n to_o have_v subscribe_v thereunto_o yea_o if_o need_n be_v with_o my_o own_o proper_a blood_n conceave_a infinite_a gladness_n that_o aâ—ter_v so_o many_o admirable_a victory_n which_o his_o majesty_n have_v get_v both_o of_o his_o enemy_n by_o his_o valour_n and_o of_o himself_o by_o his_o clemency_n the_o good_a angel_n of_o france_n do_v now_o again_o open_a to_o his_o majesty_n the_o way_n to_o obtain_v another_o victory_n no_o less_o glorious_a than_o the_o former_a whereby_o he_o may_v as_o another_o constantine_n after_o peace_n and_o tranquillity_n restore_v to_o his_o temporal_a estate_n restore_v also_o the_o like_a peace_n and_o tranquillity_n to_o the_o state_n of_o god_n which_o be_v his_o holy_a church_n for_o that_o this_o disputation_n shall_v not_o be_v like_a to_o the_o other_o of_o former_a time_n wherein_o be_v examine_v matter_n of_o doctrine_n &_o the_o truth_n thereof_o as_o also_o of_o the_o true_a interpretation_n of_o holy_a scripture_n conference_n and_o other_o such_o like_a in_o examination_n whereof_o the_o shift_n and_o sleight_n of_o the_o disputer_n and_o other_o disguisinge_a of_o the_o matter_n may_v make_v the_o truth_n uncertain_a to_o the_o hearer_n but_o here_o all_o question_n in_o this_o disputation_n shall_v only_o be_v question_n of_o fact_n whether_o place_n be_v true_o allege_v or_o no_o for_o trial_n whereof_o it_o shall_v only_o be_v needful_a to_o bring_v eye_n for_o judge_n to_o behold_v whether_o the_o citation_n which_o we_o do_v accuse_v of_o falsehood_n be_v so_o indeed_o in_o the_o author_n as_o plessis_n have_v allege_v in_o his_o book_n and_o yet_o of_o the_o overthrow_n of_o these_o so_o many_o falsification_n gather_v together_o ensue_v the_o overthrow_n and_o dishonour_n of_o the_o cause_n which_o be_v defend_v by_o such_o weapon_n and_o consequent_o we_o be_v much_o bind_v to_o the_o holy_a providence_n of_o almighty_a god_n that_o he_o have_v permit_v in_o this_o last_o assault_n of_o heretic_n combat_n the_o minister_n of_o france_n to_o have_v place_v all_o the_o head_n of_o their_o false_a imposture_n and_o deceytfull_a deal_n upon_o one_o body_n to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v be_v all_o cut_n of_o at_o one_o blow_n and_o that_o the_o simple_a people_n by_o they_o abuse_v see_v discover_v the_o false_a &_o unfaithful_a deal_n of_o those_o upon_o who_o fidelity_n they_o ground_v their_o faith_n may_v forsake_v they_o hereafter_o and_o return_v to_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v the_o pillar_n and_o sure_a ground_n of_o all_o truth_n wherefore_o to_o the_o end_n that_o this_o happy_a success_n may_v be_v bring_v to_o effect_v without_o delay_n not_o only_o i_o do_v subscribe_v most_o willing_o together_o with_o the_o l._n of_o plessis_n to_o present_v his_o request_n to_o his_o majesty_n but_o also_o do_v further_o promise_v he_o in_o the_o execution_n thereof_o to_o use_v all_o sweetness_n modesty_n &_o love_a proceed_n towards_o his_o person_n reprehensible_a for_o that_o i_o esteem_v it_o a_o thing_n most_o conformable_a to_o reason_n that_o combatt_n which_o proceed_v of_o charity_n shall_v be_v try_v with_o charity_n &_o that_o as_o in_o old_a time_n in_o the_o matrimonial_a sacrificos_fw-la that_o be_v ordain_v for_o peace_n and_o concord_n betwixt_o man_n and_o wife_n the_o gall_n of_o beast_n offer_v up_o be_v take_v out_o even_o so_o in_o the_o disputation_n which_o be_v undertake_v for_o the_o peace_n and_o union_n of_o the_o spouse_n of_o god_n which_o be_v his_o church_n the_o gall_n and_o bitterness_n of_o hatred_n and_o evil_n will_v be_v take_v away_o make_v and_o subscribe_v by_o i_o in_o the_o castle_n of_o condie_n be_v the_o house_n of_o the_o b._n of_o eureux_fw-fr the_fw-fr 25._o of_o march_n in_o the_o year_n one_o thousand_o six_o hundred_o by_o i_o james._n b._n of_o eureux_fw-fr this_o be_v the_o answer_n and_o acceptance_n of_o the_o bishop_n full_a of_o confidence_n wit_n and_o medesty_n as_o to_o the_o reader_n must_v needs_o appear_v now_o let_v we_o see_v the_o reply_n of_o plessis_n mornay_n no_o less_o captious_a and_o subtle_a they_o this_o be_v plain_a simple_a and_o sincere_a the_o reply_n of_o the_o l._n plessis_n to_o
the_o former_a answer_n publish_v by_o the_o b._n of_o eureux_fw-fr upon_o the_o challenge_n make_v unto_o he_o by_o the_o say_v plessis_n chap._n iv._n when_o i_o have_v understand_v gentle_a reader_n the_o l._n b._n of_o eureux_fw-fr give_v forth_o that_o the_o place_n of_o the_o father_n quote_v by_o i_o in_o my_o book_n be_v false_o cite_v i_o send_v he_o a_o certain_a challenge_n write_v and_o subscribe_v by_o my_o own_o hand_n of_o the_o date_n of_o the_o 20._o of_o march_n 1600._o the_o which_o since_o that_o time_n the_o say_v b._n have_v cause_v to_o be_v print_v &_o publish_v though_o i_o send_v the_o same_o to_o he_o private_o by_o the_o way_n of_o his_o own_o brother_n hereupon_o notwithstanding_o my_o l._n bishop_n have_v cause_v to_o be_v print_v a_o certain_a advertisement_n to_o the_o reader_n of_o the_o date_n of_o the_o 25._o of_o march_n the_o which_o be_v now_o cry_v about_o the_o street_n in_o this_o city_n and_o this_o in_o steed_n of_o sendinge_v i_o his_o private_a answer_n by_o the_o same_o way_n i_o send_v to_o he_o nothing_o judge_n reader_n whether_o in_o matter_n of_o provocation_n for_o so_o he_o call_v my_o challenge_n this_o manner_n of_o proceed_v be_v to_o be_v receive_v and_o not_o rather_o subject_a unto_o sinister_a interpretation_n yet_o notwithstanding_o the_o event_n perhaps_o will_v make_v man_n judge_v better_a of_o his_o intention_n whereunto_o willing_o i_o reserve_v myself_o and_o of_o this_o my_o private_a challenge_n to_o he_o as_o of_o one_o particular_a man_n to_o another_o he_o make_v by_o &_o by_o a_o public_a defiance_n of_o one_o part_n to_o another_o as_o they_o which_o in_o a_o army_n do_v make_v their_o private_a quarrel_n to_o be_v the_o public_a cause_n of_o the_o whole_a nation_n judge_n here_o again_o reader_n of_o this_o manner_n of_o proceed_v in_o a_o conference_n of_o religion_n word_n the_o which_o shall_v tend_v to_o reniute_v and_o join_v together_o man_n mind_n and_o not_o to_o disunite_v their_o affection_n consequent_o he_o fly_v the_o examination_n unto_o the_o which_o i_o do_v submit_v my_o book_n before_o the_o k._n deputye_n from_o leaf_n to_o leaf_n and_o from_o line_n to_o line_n and_o feign_v that_o he_o fear_v the_o wearynesse_n of_o the_o deputye_n short_a judge_n here_o again_o reader_n if_o this_o trial_n may_v be_v make_v with_o more_o commodity_n or_o less_o labour_n than_o i_o have_v offer_v wherefore_o to_o this_o again_o i_o answer_v that_o we_o will_v hold_v herein_o so_o easy_a &_o short_a method_n of_o trial_n that_o i_o dare_v brag_v that_o this_o other_o pain_n shall_v be_v turn_v into_o pleasure_n most_o gretefull_a but_o that_o which_o greve_v he_o neither_o can_v he_o dissemble_v it_o be_v that_o he_o fear_v as_o he_o say_v that_o of_o some_o false_a citation_n who_o falsehood_n be_v less_o evident_a if_o he_o pass_v they_o over_o i_o will_v take_v witness_n as_o though_o they_o grant_v they_o to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o the_o truth_n be_v that_o he_o doubt_v least_o by_o his_o fly_v of_o my_o manifest_a veritye_n i_o will_v make_v a_o prejudice_n against_o his_o cavillation_n &_o calumniation_n for_o see_v this_o difference_n between_o we_o may_v be_v decide_v by_o only_o true_a himself_o read_n of_o that_o which_o be_v write_v what_o mean_n shall_v i_o have_v in_o this_o trial_n to_o deceive_v the_o judgement_n or_o rather_o the_o sight_n of_o the_o deputye_n he_o skyrmish_v final_o 2._o say_v that_o he_o will_v show_v i_o 500_o false_a citation_n by_o number_n but_o man_n will_v not_o easy_o believe_v he_o who_o know_v that_o such_o brag_n without_o effect_n have_v continue_v already_o 20._o year_n and_o more_o and_o therefore_o hereunto_o i_o have_v but_o one_o word_n to_o answer_v which_o be_v that_o when_o we_o meet_v we_o shall_v see_v trial_n what_o he_o can_v do_v and_o therefore_o not_o to_o make_v many_o word_n which_o serve_v for_o nothing_o but_o to_o put_v of_o the_o thing_n themselves_o i_o will_v notwithstanding_o all_o this_o take_v my_o offer_n as_o accept_v by_o he_o and_o even_o now_o to_o this_o intent_n i_o have_v entreat_v my_o l._n mareshall_n of_o bovillon_n who_o go_v to_o take_v his_o leave_n of_o the_o k._n at_o his_o palace_n of_o boys_n de_fw-fr vincens_fw-la to_o present_v unto_o his_o majesty_n my_o most_o humble_a request_n to_o this_o effect_n by_o the_o which_o i_o do_v beseech_v this_o majesty_n that_o it_o will_v please_v he_o to_o ordain_v some_o deputye_n to_o the_o end_n above_o mention_v which_o petition_n if_o it_o please_v god_n to_o prosper_v and_o bless_v i_o hope_v it_o will_v prove_v a_o good_a preamble_n for_o some_o great_a designment_n worthy_a the_o magnanimity_n of_o our_o king_n towards_o some_o holy_a reformation_n of_o the_o church_n in_o his_o kingdom_n by_o the_o mean_n whereof_o we_o shall_v see_v in_o this_o our_o one_o only_a king_n flattery_n three_o most_o great_a emperor_n and_o their_o virtue_n represent_v to_o wit_v a_o caesar_n in_o conqueringe_v a_o augustus_n in_o pacifyinge_v of_o his_o estate_n &_o one_o that_o fly_v high_a than_o any_o constantine_n in_o restore_v the_o whole_a church_n of_o christendom_n by_o the_o example_n of_o his_o own_o reform_a kingdom_n this_o our_o request_n recommend_v by_o i_o to_o the_o say_v l._n mareshall_n event_n be_v yesterday_o the_o last_o of_o march_n so_o earnest_o by_o he_o present_v to_o his_o majesty_n as_o by_o his_o answer_n he_o give_v i_o no_o small_a hope_n that_o very_o soon_o he_o will_v give_v we_o mean_n to_o effectuate_v our_o desire_n and_o the_o more_o to_o hasten_v the_o matter_n i_o have_v again_o this_o morning_n entreat_v most_o humble_o his_o majesty_n by_o my_o letter_n so_o as_o now_o there_o remain_v nothing_o but_o to_o beseech_v the_o same_o of_o god_n as_o i_o do_v withal_o my_o hart_n for_o his_o glory_n &_o for_o the_o instruction_n of_o his_o people_n and_o so_o hereafter_o a_o end_n of_o all_o word_n about_o this_o matter_n written_a at_o paris_n the_o first_o of_o april_n 1600._o plessis_n hitherto_o be_v the_o challenge_n answer_n and_o reply_n of_o these_o two_o party_n which_o the_o k._n majesty_n have_v peruse_v and_o see_v so_o great_a show_n and_o confidence_n to_o be_v in_o both_o for_o enter_v the_o combat_n he_o give_v very_o noble_o &_o christianly_o his_o royal_a assent_n thereunto_o as_o by_o the_o ensue_a letter_n of_o the_o whole_a fact_n &_o circumstance_n thereof_o do_v appear_v and_o find_v present_o some_o relent_a and_o draw_v back_o in_o the_o one_o party_n as_o by_o the_o say_a letter_n you_o shall_v see_v he_o further_o lay_v his_o full_a commandment_n upon_o they_o both_o for_o performance_n of_o their_o offer_n and_o consequent_o the_o trial_n be_v make_v at_o fontayne-bleaâ—_a some_o four_o or_o five_o day_n after_o in_o the_o presence_n of_o his_o majesty_n &_o prince_n of_o blood_n with_o many_o of_o the_o great_a nobility_n with_o those_o particularitye_n which_o the_o say_v ensue_a letter_n will_v represent_v unto_o you_o but_o yet_o before_o all_o i_o have_v think_v good_a to_o set_v down_o the_o k._n own_o letter_n though_o short_a and_o brief_a yet_o very_o substantial_a and_o pithy_a relatinge_v very_o prudent_o in_o few_o word_n the_o success_n of_o that_o trial_n with_o the_o good_a effect_n that_o may_v be_v hope_v thereof_o for_o conversion_n of_o many_o protestant_n that_o be_v not_o perverse_a and_o wilful_a it_o be_v write_v at_o fontayne-bleau_a where_o the_o meeting_n be_v the_o very_a day_n of_o the_o trial_n and_o for_o the_o worthiness_n thereof_o and_o due_a respect_n to_o so_o great_a a_o personage_n it_o shall_v go_v both_o in_o french_a &_o english_a for_o they_o that_o understand_v both_o language_n copy_n des_n lettres_n dv_o roy_n a_o monsieur_fw-fr de_fw-fr espernon_n chap._n v._n mon_fw-fr amy_n lediocese_n d'_fw-fr eureux_fw-fr agaigne_n celuy_fw-fr de_fw-fr saumur_n &_o la_fw-fr doulceur_fw-fr dont_fw-fr onâ—y_n a_o procee_v host_n â—occasion_n a_o quelque_fw-fr huguenot_n que_fw-fr cesoit_fw-fr de_fw-fr dire_fw-fr que_fw-fr rien_fw-fr y_fw-fr eut_fw-fr force_fw-fr que_fw-fr la_fw-fr verité_fw-fr ce_fw-fr porteur_fw-fr y_fw-fr ostoit_fw-fr qui_fw-fr vous_fw-fr contera_fw-fr comme_fw-fr i'y_fw-fr ay_fw-fr faict_n merueilles_fw-fr certes_o c_o '_o est_fw-fr un_fw-fr des_fw-fr plus_fw-fr grands_fw-fr coup_n pour_fw-fr l'_fw-fr eglise_fw-fr de_fw-fr dieu_fw-fr qui_fw-fr s'_fw-fr est_fw-fr faict_n y_o long_a temps_fw-fr suyvant_fw-fr l'_fw-fr eclarcissement_fw-fr de_fw-fr cest_fw-fr erreur_fw-fr nous_fw-fr rammeineron_n plus_fw-la de_fw-fr separez_fw-fr de_fw-fr l'_fw-fr eglise_fw-fr en_fw-fr un_fw-fr a_fw-fr que_fw-fr par_fw-fr toute_fw-fr autre_fw-fr voy_fw-fr en_fw-fr cinquante_fw-la il_fw-fr y_fw-fr a_fw-fr un_fw-fr long_a discourse_n d'vn_v chascun_fw-fr qui_fw-fr seroit_fw-fr trop_fw-fr long_a a_fw-fr discourir_fw-fr par_fw-fr escript_n il_fw-fr vous_fw-fr dira_fw-la la_fw-fr façon_fw-fr
bable_v against_o he_o if_o he_o have_v leave_v write_v as_o s._n augustine_n have_v do_v 5._o that_o he_o will_v not_o believe_v the_o gospel_n if_o the_o authority_n of_o church_n do_v not_o move_v he_o thereunto_o and_o do_v you_o note_v further_o that_o scotus_n in_o the_o same_o place_n affirm_v that_o albeit_o this_o verity_n about_o transubstantiation_n be_v declare_v first_o in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n yet_o be_v the_o substance_n thereof_o believe_v also_o from_o the_o beginning_n begin_v under_o other_o word_n of_o conversion_n transmutation_n exchange_n of_o substance_n and_o the_o like_a which_o he_o show_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n yea_o and_o that_o it_o be_v include_v implicit_a in_o all_o the_o old_a cree_v of_o the_o apostle_n &_o other_o ponitur_fw-la say_v he_o talk_v of_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n veritas_fw-la aliquorum_fw-la credendorum_fw-la magis_fw-la explicitè_fw-fr 3._o quam_fw-la habebatur_fw-la in_o symbolo_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la vel_fw-la athanasij_n vel_fw-la niceni_n in_o this_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n the_o truth_n of_o certain_a article_n belong_v to_o faith_n be_v more_o clear_o &_o particular_o set_v down_o than_o it_o be_v before_o in_o the_o creed_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o of_o s._n athanasius_n or_o of_o the_o nicene_n council_n so_o as_o by_o this_o it_o appear_v that_o scotus_n do_v not_o believe_v the_o truth_n of_o tâ—ransubstantiation_n as_o a_o thing_n determine_v only_o by_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n but_o as_o contain_v in_o the_o scripture_n and_o believe_v in_o substance_n from_o the_o very_a beginning_n and_o declare_v or_o expound_v only_o by_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n direct_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n and_o this_o be_v sufficient_a to_o convince_v o._n e._n of_o plain_a calumniation_n and_o though_o he_o say_v in_o the_o end_n of_o his_o defence_n that_o dominicus_n soto_n and_o josephus_n angle_n be_v at_o some_o difference_n about_o scotus_n his_o meaning_n yet_o be_v his_o word_n &_o whole_a discourse_n clear_a enough_o without_o any_o commentary_n of_o other_o as_o you_o have_v see_v and_o quent_o this_o shall_v suffice_v for_o the_o examen_fw-la of_o this_o first_o place_n the_o second_o place_n out_o of_o durand_n for_o that_o we_o have_v be_v long_o in_o the_o first_o place_n to_o show_v thereby_o some_o portraiture_n of_o o._n e._n his_o manner_n of_o answer_v and_o defendinge_v his_o client_n so_o shall_v we_o be_v breeder_n in_o the_o remnant_n the_o charge_n upon_o the_o second_o place_n be_v if_o you_o remember_v that_o plessis_n have_v abuse_v durand_n as_o he_o have_v before_o do_v scotus_n but_o most_o of_o all_o his_o reader_n by_o they_o both_o in_o alleaginge_v a_o objection_n for_o a_o resolution_n which_o be_v evident_a for_o that_o durand_n beginning_n to_o comment_n upon_o the_o 11._o distinction_n of_o the_o four_o book_n of_o the_o master_n of_o sentemce_n which_o distinction_n be_v about_o transubstantiation_n as_o the_o former_a be_v about_o the_o real_a presence_n he_o frame_v his_o first_o question_n thus_o primo_fw-la quaeritur_fw-la etc._n etc._n 3._o first_o it_o be_v demand_v whether_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n by_o conversion_n of_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n into_o it_o etc._n etc._n et_fw-la arguitur_fw-la quod_fw-la noâ—_n etc._n etc._n and_o it_o be_v object_v that_o it_o be_v not_o but_o rather_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n remain_v for_o that_o sewer_a difficultye_n do_v follow_v that_o way_n then_o by_o put_v transubstantiation_n etc._n etc._n and_o after_o this_o he_o set_v down_o his_o resolution_n to_o the_o contrary_a 2d_o and_o answer_v this_o objection_n as_o before_o you_o have_v hear_v whereupon_o after_o diverse_a shift_n attempt_v by_o plessis_n for_o some_o evasion_n he_o find_v none_o to_o the_o purpose_n and_o so_o have_v sentence_n against_o he_o and_o what_o now_o do_v his_o advocate_n think_v you_o bring_v to_o relieve_v he_o true_o nothing_o at_o all_o for_o first_o he_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v this_o place_n of_o durand_n whereof_o the_o controversy_n be_v but_o another_o where_o durand_n say_v as_o scotus_n also_o do_v before_o that_o god_n by_o his_o omnipotency_n may_v have_v ordain_v that_o his_o body_n shall_v have_v be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n without_o transubstantiation_n if_o he_o have_v woo_a which_o no_o man_n deny_v but_o hear_v his_o word_n the_o second_o place_n say_v o._n e._n 13._o be_v take_v out_o of_o durand_n who_o say_v that_o it_o be_v rashness_n to_o affirm_v that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n may_v not_o by_o the_o power_n of_o god_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n by_o other_o manner_n then_o by_o the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n into_o his_o body_n neither_o can_v it_o be_v deny_v that_o durand_n have_v these_o word_n and_o why_o then_o be_v master_n plessis_n charge_v with_o falsification_n fersooth_o because_o they_o say_v he_o take_v the_o opposition_n for_o the_o resolution_n thus_o he_o whereto_o i_o answer_v that_o he_o be_v gross_o deceive_v for_o that_o plessis_n be_v not_o charge_v for_o set_v down_o the_o objection_n in_o steed_n of_o the_o resolution_n out_o of_o this_o place_n of_o durand_n but_o in_o the_o former_a place_n by_o i_o allege_v which_o he_o have_v here_o omit_v for_o of_o this_o place_n there_o be_v never_o any_o question_n or_o difficulty_n of_o the_o conference_n though_o it_o be_v allege_v to_o another_o purpose_n as_o before_o be_v mention_v you_o will_v ask_v i_o perhaps_o &_o why_o then_o do_v o._n e._n aggravate_v allege_v this_o wrong_n place_n of_o durand_n leave_v out_o the_o other_o whereof_o the_o controversy_n be_v sure_o i_o must_v in_o part_n excuse_v he_o for_o that_o he_o err_v also_o herein_o who_o set_v forth_o the_o particular_a passage_n without_o the_o relator_n knowledge_n after_o the_o relation_n end_v and_o print_v as_o before_o have_v be_v signify_v and_o be_v testify_v in_o the_o preface_n to_o the_o say_a passage_n yet_o be_v his_o error_n much_o more_o pardonable_a than_o this_o of_o o._n e._n for_o that_o he_o have_v only_o a_o write_v copy_n of_o a_o particular_a friend_n from_o paris_n &_o have_v not_o see_v the_o public_a act_n print_v nor_o plessis_n reply_n as_o this_o other_o have_v do_v write_v more_o than_o a_o whole_a year_n after_o they_o be_v publish_v &_o therefore_o for_o he_o to_o come_v now_o and_o dissemble_v the_o true_a place_n in_o controversy_n and_o deceive_v his_o reader_n with_o a_o new_a fraud_n say_v that_o we_o accuse_v plessis_n with_o falsification_n for_o take_v the_o objection_n for_o the_o resolution_n in_o this_o place_n whereas_o as_o all_o man_n do_v know_v it_o be_v in_o another_o show_v as_o well_o his_o condition_n devote_a to_o continual_a shiftinge_n as_o also_o his_o weakness_n to_o defend_v his_o client_n in_o the_o former_a charge_n he_o be_v glad_a to_o slip_n out_o &_o run_v away_o under_o the_o shadow_n of_o a_o other_o man_n error_n and_o yet_o to_o leave_v behind_o he_o some_o scent_n of_o what_o he_o be_v he_o will_v needs_o utter_v two_o other_o notorious_a untruth_n durand_n at_o his_o part_n the_o one_o where_o he_o say_v that_o it_o may_v plain_o be_v gather_v by_o durand_n word_n that_o the_o determination_n only_o of_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n &_o the_o romish_a church_n move_v he_o to_o hold_v transubstantiation_n whereof_o there_o be_v no_o such_o word_n in_o durand_n but_o rather_o the_o plain_a contrary_n for_o so_o much_o as_o he_o prove_v 9_o transubstantiation_n not_o only_o by_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n but_o also_o by_o diverse_a clear_a sentence_n of_o ancient_a father_n namely_o s._n ambrose_n s._n augustine_n prosper_n and_o eusebius_n which_o be_v long_o before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n the_o other_o untruth_n be_v where_o he_o say_v that_o not_o only_o they_o but_o bellarmine_n also_o do_v note_v the_o same_o in_o durand_n taxinge_v he_o for_o hard_a belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n whereas_o bellarmine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v do_v express_o say_v â—1_n durand_n to_o hold_v converti_fw-la panem_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la per_fw-la consecrationem_fw-la that_o the_o bread_n be_v convert_v by_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o yet_o that_o he_o have_v a_o certain_a particular_a opinion_n about_o the_o manner_n thereof_o which_o be_v nothing_o to_o our_o controversy_n so_o as_o o._n e._n not_o have_v relieve_v his_o client_n any_o thing_n at_o all_o in_o this_o point_n have_v load_v himself_o with_o 2._o or_o 3._o fault_n more_o than_o he_o have_v on_o his_o back_n before_o and_o so_o he_o pass_v from_o this_o place_n to_o the_o other_o that_o follow_v the_o three_o place_n out_o of_o s._n chrysostome_n the_o charge_n give_v upon_o plessis_n in_o this_o place_n be_v as_o before_o you_o have_v see_v for_o that_o he_o go_v about_o to_o
after_o for_o in_o this_o place_n he_o say_v no_o more_o but_o neither_o do_v caluyn_n say_v he_o nor_o any_o of_o these_o father_n mention_n either_o the_o use_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o practice_v of_o the_o ancient_a church_n nor_o do_v any_o father_n speak_v of_o all_o these_o ceremony_n together_o nor_o can_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o the_o sign_n and_o form_n of_o these_o ceremony_n be_v justify_v by_o father_n lo_o here_o 3._o or_o 4._o hole_n open_v to_o run_v out_o at_o at_o first_o that_o albeit_o caluyn_n confess_v these_o ceremony_n to_o be_v very_o ancient_a and_o that_o the_o foresay_a old_a father_n and_o doctor_n do_v mention_v they_o in_o their_o write_n yet_o do_v they_o not_o mention_v the_o use_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o practice_v of_o the_o ancient_a church_n before_o their_o day_n be_v not_o this_o a_o pretty_a shift_n as_o though_o themselves_o be_v not_o sufficient_a witness_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n the_o second_o be_v that_o albeit_o the_o father_n though_o dispersedly_z as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v mention_v these_o ceremony_n as_o use_v in_o the_o church_n in_o their_o day_n yet_o do_v they_o not_o set_v they_o down_o altogether_o in_o one_o place_n and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o more_o silly_a shift_n as_o though_o the_o father_n testimony_n of_o they_o in_o several_a be_v nothing_o except_o they_o do_v set_v they_o down_o altogether_o by_o which_o reason_n the_o evangelist_n themselves_o may_v be_v reject_v for_o that_o they_o put_v not_o down_o all_o thing_n together_o but_o many_o dispersedly_z as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v to_o treat_v of_o they_o the_o three_o be_v that_o albeit_o these_o ceremony_n be_v in_o use_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n yet_o not_o in_o the_o same_o particular_a sign_n and_o form_n of_o word_n as_o they_o be_v use_v now_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o so_o he_o have_v a_o little_a after_o that_o if_o we_o will_v be_v obstinate_a we_o must_v prove_v that_o the_o father_n pray_v in_o consecratinge_a light_n or_o use_v the_o same_o word_n in_o hallowinge_v water_n &_o salt_n which_o be_v now_o set_v down_o in_o the_o roman_a missal_n &_o by_o these_o &_o other_o like_a shift_n which_o for_o brevitye_n sake_n i_o omit_v he_o put_v of_o all_o that_o can_v be_v lay_v against_o he_o and_o it_o be_v as_o good_a a_o manner_n of_o answer_v as_o a_o merry_a good_a fellow_n be_v say_v to_o have_v use_v at_o oxford_n oxford_n in_o a_o visitation_n to_o avoid_v the_o punishment_n for_o the_o breach_n of_o certain_a statute_n of_o his_o college_n in_o the_o begin_v of_o the_o late_a queen_n reign_n to_o wit_n that_o when_o the_o statute_n be_v urge_v against_o he_o which_o do_v forbid_v scholar_n upon_o pain_n of_o expulsion_n to_o come_v in_o or_o go_v out_o over_o the_o wall_n he_o answer_v that_o be_v true_a when_o the_o gate_n be_v open_a and_o then_o be_v urge_v by_o another_o statute_n forbiddinge_a under_o the_o same_o pain_n to_o bear_v any_o weapon_n he_o answer_v that_o bear_v be_v understand_v in_o man_n hand_n but_o not_o as_o hang_v at_o their_o girdill_n and_o by_o these_o mean_n be_v he_o able_a to_o answer_v full_o all_o objection_n make_v against_o he_o for_o breach_n of_o statute_n and_o so_o be_v sutcliffe_n for_o falsifyinge_v of_o father_n by_o the_o like_a manner_n of_o answer_v and_o this_o shall_v suffice_v for_o the_o first_o place_n in_o the_o end_n whereof_o notwithstanding_o he_o return_v again_o to_o caluyn_n as_o be_v more_o trouble_v with_o his_o authority_n than_o all_o the_o other_o father_n bring_v against_o he_o master_n caluyn_n say_v he_o do_v not_o affirm_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o my_o word_n 5._o for_o albeit_o he_o say_v that_o he_o know_v how_o ancient_a some_o of_o these_o ceremony_n be_v which_o i_o deny_v to_o have_v be_v use_v in_o the_o first_o church_n yet_o do_v he_o not_o express_v how_o ancient_a they_o be_v nor_o speak_v any_o thing_n of_o their_o several_a form_n etc._n etc._n lo_o shiftinge_n &_o shufflinge_v upon_o caluyn_n also_o he_o do_v grant_v they_o be_v ancient_a but_o do_v not_o tell_v how_o ancient_a and_o sutcliffe_n say_v before_o that_o they_o be_v not_o practise_v in_o the_o ancient_a church_n and_o now_o he_o say_v that_o he_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v use_v in_o the_o first_o church_n and_o though_o three_o you_o shall_v prove_v that_o they_o be_v use_v as_o caluyn_n say_v in_o the_o ancient_a church_n yet_o will_v he_o say_v that_o caluyn_n do_v not_o affirm_v they_o to_o have_v be_v in_o the_o first_o church_n of_o all_o nor_o do_v he_o specify_v the_o particular_a form_n of_o word_n now_o use_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o so_o will_v he_o escape_v out_o that_o way_n but_o now_o i_o will_v ask_v the_o discreett_a reader_n in_o good_a sadness_n what_o scripture_n what_o father_n what_o most_o evident_a truth_n may_v not_o be_v shift_v of_o and_o delude_v by_o these_o kind_n of_o illusion_n let_v the_o reader_n but_o look_n over_o the_o six_o chapter_n of_o ceremony_n 6._o in_o the_o 2._o 3._o 4._o and_o five_o centurye_n of_o the_o magdeburgian_o and_o he_o shall_v see_v the_o antiquity_n of_o all_o these_o point_n against_o sutcliffe_n in_o this_o place_n the_o second_o place_n object_v by_o e._n o._n to_o o._n e._n be_v in_o the_o same_o page_n where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v no_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n place_n to_o denounce_v they_o accurse_v that_o shall_v not_o hold_v baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n be_v these_o in_o the_o four_o canon_n concern_v baptism_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la dixerit_fw-la baptismum_fw-la liberum_fw-la esse_fw-la 5._o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la necessarium_fw-la ad_fw-la salutem_fw-la anathema_n sit_v if_o any_o man_n do_v affirm_v that_o baptism_n be_v free_a that_o be_v to_o say_v not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n let_v he_o be_v accurse_v and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v re_fw-mi well_fw-mi voto_fw-la as_o general_o all_o catholic_a divine_n do_v expound_v to_o wit_n that_o a_o man_n be_v either_o real_o or_o actual_o baptize_v or_o at_o least_o wise_a have_v a_o desire_n thereof_o which_o desire_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o they_o that_o have_v year_n of_o understand_v and_o be_v let_v otherwise_o by_o some_o extrinsical_a mean_n from_o actual_a receavinge_v the_o same_o and_o what_o christian_a man_n will_v reprehend_v this_o doctrine_n or_o call_v it_o uncatholike_a as_o sutcliffe_n do_v e._n o._n assault_v he_o with_o three_o sort_n of_o weapon_n as_o himself_o confess_v first_o the_o authority_n of_o ancient_a father_n that_o affirm_v baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n second_o the_o word_n of_o their_o own_o communion_n book_n where_o talk_v of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n they_o say_v that_o none_o be_v save_v that_o be_v not_o regenerate_v by_o water_n three_o out_o of_o his_o own_o word_n diverse_a time_n repeat_v in_o other_o place_n upon_o other_o occasion_n where_o he_o say_v that_o child_n by_o baptism_n be_v receive_v into_o the_o ark_n of_o christ_n his_o church_n and_o again_o that_o want_n of_o baptism_n send_v infant_n to_o hell_n fire_n whereof_o his_o adversary_n infer_v ergo_fw-la it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o that_o neither_o out_o of_o the_o ark_n nor_o in_o hell_n fire_n can_v they_o be_v save_v which_o be_v the_o same_o doctrine_n that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n do_v teach_v and_o add_v a_o curse_n to_o they_o that_o deny_v it_o and_o these_o be_v the_o charge_v give_v now_o let_v we_o see_v how_o sutcliffe_n seek_v to_o run_v out_o of_o the_o list_n first_o he_o stand_v much_o upon_o the_o word_n let_v they_o be_v accurse_v and_o will_v we_o to_o show_v out_o of_o the_o father_n that_o they_o do_v use_v the_o word_n accurse_v 5._o neither_o do_v any_o father_n say_v he_o affirm_v that_o such_o be_v accurse_v that_o hold_v not_o baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a be_v not_o this_o a_o egregious_a foolery_n as_o though_o the_o controversy_n be_v of_o the_o word_n accurse_v &_o not_o of_o the_o doctrine_n it_o self_n see_v that_o sutcliffes_n own_o word_n in_o his_o accusation_n be_v shift_n which_o doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n do_v not_o say_v he_o appear_v to_o be_v catholic_a and_o yet_o now_o will_v he_o hide_v himself_o under_o the_o word_n accurse_v as_o though_o the_o controversy_n be_v not_o about_o the_o doctrine_n but_o about_o the_o word_n and_o yet_o of_o we_o will_v stand_v also_o upon_o the_o curse_n sutcliffe_n can_v so_o escape_v but_o must_v undergo_v the_o say_a curse_n in_o like_a manner_n for_o he_o shall_v find_v the_o same_o both_o condemn_a and_o accurse_a express_o in_o the_o counsel_n of_o carthage_n and_o milivitanum_fw-la at_o which_o
confess_v that_o these_o be_v egregious_a companion_n in_o so_o delude_v their_o reader_n by_o shameful_a shiftinge_n and_o this_o of_o s._n chrysostome_n now_o let_v we_o see_v what_o he_o say_v to_o s._n epiphanius_n and_o s._n augustine_n about_o aërius_n condemn_v of_o heresy_n well_o near_o 1300._o year_n pass_v for_o deny_v sacrifice_n and_o prayer_n to_o be_v offer_v for_o the_o dead_a unto_o the_o place_n say_v he_o of_o epiphanius_n and_o augustine_n i_o answer_v that_o aërius_n be_v condemn_v for_o disalowinge_v the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n in_o this_o commemoration_n for_o the_o dead_a dead_a and_o geve_v thanks_o for_o their_o bless_a end_n and_o this_o be_v that_o prayer_n which_o caluyn_n and_o we_o confess_v to_o have_v be_v in_o the_o church_n a_o long_a tyme._n here_o you_o see_v that_o he_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o answer_v to_o three_o several_a party_n to_o wit_n s._n epiphanius_n s._n augustine_n and_o john_n caluyn_n and_o that_o with_o the_o same_o truth_n that_o he_o answer_v before_o s._n chrysostome_n to_o wit_n with_o plain_a cozenage_n and_o shiftinge_n for_o unto_o the_o two_o father_n he_o say_v if_o he_o say_v any_o thing_n that_o they_o affirm_v aërius_n to_o have_v be_v condemn_v as_o a_o heretic_n not_o for_o denyinge_v sacrifice_n or_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a but_o for_o disallow_v the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n in_o their_o commemoration_n &_o geve_v thanks_o for_o their_o bless_a end_n which_o come_v moration_n he_o expound_v a_o little_a before_o to_o have_v be_v a_o recytall_n only_o of_o dead_a man_n name_n without_o any_o prayer_n for_o remission_n of_o sin_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o and_o that_o sutcliffe_n will_v grant_v as_o he_o seem_v to_o do_v that_o aërius_n be_v just_o condemn_v and_o hold_v for_o a_o heretic_n for_o disallowinge_v this_o commemoration_n or_o recytall_n of_o dead_a man_n name_n why_o do_v the_o protestant_n also_o disallow_v the_o same_o or_o at_o leastwise_o do_v not_o use_v it_o in_o england_n in_o their_o communion_n and_o so_o by_o omittinge_n the_o same_o do_v participate_v with_o he_o in_o the_o same_o heresy_n but_o all_o this_o be_v shameful_a shift_a turn_v and_o wyndinge_v of_o a_o lewd_a and_o lose_a conscience_n to_o deceive_v the_o reader_n for_o the_o word_n of_o saint_n epiphanius_n and_o s._n augustine_n be_v most_o plain_a &_o evident_a that_o aërius_n be_v condemn_v of_o heresy_n for_o denyinge_v prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n to_o be_v offer_v for_o the_o dead_a 53._o orare_fw-la vel_fw-la offer_n pro_fw-la mortius_fw-la non_fw-la oportere_fw-la say_v s._n augustine_n he_o hold_v that_o prayer_n and_o oblation_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v make_v for_o the_o dead_a and_o do_v you_o note_v that_o this_o be_v not_o yeaster_n day_n but_o in_o the_o time_n of_o constantine_n the_o great_a when_o aërius_n be_v condemn_v as_o a_o heretic_n by_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o that_o time_n for_o denyinge_v these_o point_n which_o our_o protestant_n deny_v also_o &_o blaspheme_v at_o this_o day_n magnum_fw-la mundo_fw-la malum_fw-la say_v epipbanius_fw-la of_o aërius_n suriosus_fw-la mente_fw-la 75._o elatus_fw-la opinion_n etc._n etc._n aërius_n be_v a_o great_a plague_n of_o the_o world_n furious_a in_o mind_n and_o proud_a in_o his_o opinion_n etc._n etc._n what_o will_v he_o have_v say_v of_o sutcliffe_n at_o this_o time_n who_o show_v himself_o no_o less_o proud_a than_o he_o and_o avouch_v the_o same_o heresye_n and_o many_o more_o beside_o but_o to_o return_v to_o sutcliffes_n answer_n to_o the_o foresaid_a two_o father_n concern_v aërius_n first_o you_o may_v see_v &_o consider_v that_o in_o his_o former_a relation_n of_o the_o matter_n he_o use_v a_o sleight_n of_o his_o budget_n when_o he_o say_v that_o epiphanius_n and_o augustine_n seem_v to_o say_v that_o aërius_n be_v condemn_v etc._n etc._n for_o they_o do_v not_o only_o seem_v to_o say_v so_o heresy_n but_o do_v absolute_o affirm_v it_o and_o s._n epiphanius_n make_v a_o long_a discourse_n thereof_o show_v the_o begin_v and_o occasion_n of_o aërius_n fall_n into_o this_o heresy_n to_o wit_n that_o he_o be_v a_o priest_n can_v not_o be_v make_v a_o bishop_n which_o s._n augustine_n also_o touch_v and_o that_o upon_o this_o envy_n spite_n &_o malice_n he_o begin_v to_o object_v against_o the_o clergy_n that_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n or_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a but_o only_o for_o the_o lyvinge_n and_o consequent_o for_o the_o same_o be_v condemn_v and_o hold_v always_o after_o for_o a_o heretic_n by_o the_o church_n of_o that_o and_o all_o other_o ensue_a age_n second_o it_o be_v another_o sleight_n to_o say_v that_o aërius_n be_v condemn_v for_o disallow_v the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n in_o this_o commemoration_n of_o the_o dead_a as_o though_o aërius_n his_o fault_n have_v not_o be_v against_o any_o point_n of_o catholic_a and_o universal_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n but_o disobedience_n only_o against_o some_o ecclesiastical_a order_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o mark_v it_o he_o never_o name_v he_o heretic_n as_o indeed_o disobedience_n to_o order_n be_v not_o proper_o heresy_n if_o it_o be_v not_o against_o some_o article_n of_o doctrine_n reader_n and_o all_o these_o be_v shift_n and_o conveyance_n of_o sutcliffe_n to_o dazzle_v the_o reader_n eye_n whereas_o the_o foresaid_a father_n say_v plain_o that_o he_o be_v condemn_v for_o heretical_a doctrine_n and_o s_o chrysostome_n as_o you_o have_v hear_v before_o allege_v affirm_v the_o contrary_a doctrine_n of_o prayinge_v for_o the_o depart_v in_o time_n of_o the_o dreadful_a misterye_n to_o have_v come_v down_o from_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o and_o the_o same_o in_o effect_n say_v epiphanius_n 13._o traditione_n a_o patribus_fw-la accepta_fw-la by_o tradition_n receive_v from_o their_o forefather_n the_o three_o shift_n be_v that_o sutcliffe_n in_o this_o his_o shufflinge_a answer_n foi_v in_o these_o word_n commemoration_n of_o the_o dead_a and_o gevinge_v thanks_o for_o their_o bless_a end_n as_o thongh_v saint_n epiphanius_n or_o s._n augustine_n have_v say_v or_o mean_v so_o which_o be_v quite_o contrary_a for_o they_o express_o affirm_v that_o this_o commemoration_n be_v to_o pray_v for_o they_o that_o be_v to_o say_v for_o those_o that_o be_v sinner_n and_o have_v need_n of_o our_o prayer_n which_o epiphanius_n express_v in_o these_o word_n ibidem_fw-la pro_fw-la just_a be_v &_o precatoribus_fw-la memoriam_fw-la facimus_fw-la peccatoribus_fw-la quidem_fw-la misericordiam_fw-la dei_fw-la implorantes_fw-la we_o make_v commemoration_n of_o just_a man_n and_o for_o sinner_n desiringe_v god_n mercy_n for_o those_o that_o be_v in_o sin_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v the_o very_a same_o that_o s._n chrysostome_n distinguish_v in_o the_o place_n before_o allege_v of_o his_o 69._o homily_n to_o the_o people_n of_o antioch_n that_o some_o be_v great_a sinner_n some_o less_o some_o perfect_a and_o holy_a but_o s._n augustine_n accord_v to_o his_o manner_n more_o clear_o &_o perspicuous_o in_o these_o word_n non_fw-la omnibus_fw-la prosunt_fw-la 110._o etc._n etc._n our_o prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n offer_v for_o the_o dead_a do_v not_o profitt_a all_o sort_n of_o man_n and_o why_o do_v they_o not_o profitt_a all_o but_o only_o for_o the_o difference_n of_o life_n which_o every_o man_n have_v lead_v in_o this_o body_n wherefore_o when_o sacrifice_n either_o of_o the_o altar_n or_o of_o any_o other_o alm_n be_v offer_v up_o for_o christian_n depart_v if_o they_o be_v very_o good_a man_n for_o who_o they_o be_v offer_v they_o be_v thank_v geving_n desceased_a &_o for_o they_o that_o be_v not_o very_o evil_a they_o be_v propitiation_n or_o appeasing_n with_o god_n but_o if_o they_o be_v very_o wicked_a then_o though_o they_o be_v no_o help_n to_o the_o dead_a yet_o be_v they_o some_o kind_n of_o comfort_n for_o the_o live_n and_o unto_o those_o decease_a who_o they_o do_v profitt_a they_o be_v profitable_a in_o this_o that_o either_o they_o procure_v they_o full_a remission_n or_o at_o least_o wise_a that_o their_o punishment_n or_o condemnation_n be_v thereby_o make_v more_o tolerable_a so_o s._n augustine_n who_o explain_v as_o you_o see_v most_o perspicuous_o the_o catholic_a doctrine_n and_o cut_v of_o all_o shift_n from_o cavillinge_v heretic_n about_o the_o different_a sort_n &_o quality_n of_o man_n desceased_a &_o with_o what_o distinction_n the_o catholic_a church_n do_v make_v commemoration_n for_o they_o in_o the_o public_a sacrifice_n either_o by_o pray_v or_o praise_v god_n for_o they_o and_o thus_o much_o of_o his_o shuffle_n and_o shift_v away_o the_o father_n authoritye_n let_v we_o now_o come_v to_o consider_v how_o he_o will_v put_v of_o his_o master_n caluyn_n willâ—tt_n and_o his_o brother_n willet_v allege_v also_o if_o you_o remember_v against_o he_o but_o as_o for_o willett_n he_o make_v he_o not_o worthy_a of_o a_o several_a answer_n but_o