A Comparison betweene the auncient fayth of the Romans and the new Romish Religion Set foorth by Frauncis Bunny sometime fellowe of Magdalen College in Oxforde MATTHEW 15. 13. Euerie plant which my heauenly Father hath not planted shalbe rooted vp Printed by Robert Robinson for Raph Jackeson 1595. To the Right Honourable my verie good Ladie Katheren Countise of Huntingdon Frauncis Bunny wisheth increase of honour here and euerlasting life elsewhere * ⎠* IF trueth shame not more of anie thing then when she is hid as Tertullian truely writeth then it behooueth her friends to do her that fauor that by all meanes possible they will earnestly indeuor to bring her to light that shee may be seene of them that seeke her and knowen of them that loue her And although this may perchance seeme a hard attempt in these our dayes wherein falsehoode maketh so fayre a shew and hath so great appearaunce of that it is not and euery man claimeth to the trueth be their doctrines neuer so diuers yet since God hath giuen vs meanes to driue awaye those thicke cloudes of errour and ignoraunce that the sunne of trueth may shine vnto the worlde I haue indeuoured in this short treatise to take away that colourable shewe of trueth from the Church of Rome that the vndoubted trueth of the Church of Christ may the better appeare For we haue a touchstone the word of God that cannot lye a rule that cannot deceaue by which whatsoeuer we trie and examine it wil soone bee seene whether it bee true or false Truth also is a thing that is auncient and hath bin alwayes sayth Tertullian and like the good corne that was first sowen but errour is that bad seed which was cast after into that field by the enuious man Seeing therefore that is true that was first and what so euer commeth after is false howe easie a matter is it for such as search to see the light and for them that inquire after her to finde the trueth For if it bee true that the Scriptures teach that onely then al that is not agreable to that truth must needs bee false And if that onely be nowe true which in the Apostles times was true no number of dayes or yeares shall prooue that not to bee false nowe which then was not true Therefore for the benefite of all such as loue the truth I haue in this treatise set downe the doctrine which was first taught and preached at Rome in the Apostles dayes whereof no man doubteth but that it must bee the infallible worde of God and Christian religion Then also I haue added thereunto that which is nowe holden for the Romishe religion and Catholicke fayth there And because these two doe verie much differ as hee that readeth will soone see for indeede they are nothing like and wee are assured that that which Gods worde deliuereth and was first must needes bee currant that which hath no warrant in the worde and commeth after must needes be counterfeite I haue endeuoured to bee short because I hoped it woulde be the more willingly read and the better remembred And for that cause I haue not aunswered the argumentes which the Romish Catholickes vse for defence of their opinions and the rather because it is performed in an other treatise But I trust in this it will appeare that hee that will imbrace the Catholicke Fayth that was then when the faith of the Romans was commended whereof the Papistes make greate bragges must needes detest that Romish fayth that is now and accompt it most blasphemous This little worke I haue beene bold to dedicate vnto your good Ladiship not onely as a discharge of my duetie of thankefulnesse toward your Honour to whome you bounde mee long since by manie vndeserued courtesies but also because that then I knewe your great zeale and feruent desire and loue to the trueth and your Christian care to augment your knowledge of the will of GOD Whereof I nothing doubt but the Lorde hath giuen vnto you great and happie increase To whose abundant mercies in Christ I commit your good Ladishippe alwayes praying that hee will here confirme you in his trueth and continue all his good graces tovvardes you vntill hee shall take you out of this vale of miserie to raigne vvith him in endlesse glorie Amen A Comparison betweene the auncient faith of the Romans and the new Romish Religion set forth by Frauncis Bunny sometime fellow of Magdalen Colledge in Oxford CHAP. I. IT is a daungerous stombling blocke which the Church of Rome hath cast in the waies of the ignorant whereby they are made to fall into the déepe dungeon of Popish heresies and superstitions when they beare the worlde in hand as much as they can that the Apostle in commending the faith of the Romans that then was or rather in testifying that it was published through the world doth approue the faith also that now is there taught True it is that onely they that are starke blind would stumble at that stone for hée that is but halfe sighted may plainely sée that the Apostle speaketh but of the faith of the Romans that then was and doth not promise or prophecy that it should be so alwaies In the beginning God planted true Religion the feare of him in the hearts of men and women but in continuance of time that plant of the Lords own plaining was so ouergrowen with the wéeds of wickednes of life and superstitions seruing of God that it was hardly to be séene emongst men In so much as of the times of Enos it is written as if the world had for a long time forgotten that there is any God that then he began to call vpon the name of the Lord. Yea that which was at the first deliuered from God as a perfect rule of life and written in the heart of man Yet was by the corruption of man so blotted out and by the darknes of our minds so defaced that God was forced as it were to write it a new that it might the better be remembred in the tables of stone Yea and such is the force of our naturall and hereditary infection that we cannot long kéep the truth sincerly deliuered vnto vs without mingling or mangling of the same And therfore Tertulian teacheth vs truly that the trueth must be before heresy euen as the body is before the shadow And he proueth it by that parable of our Sauiour Christ wherin the good séed is said first to be sowen after the â—ares And so concludeth that that doctrine is from the Lord true that is first that which commeth after is false and strange And Ciprian also confirmeth the same when for reformation of any error he teacheth vs to haue recourse to the fountain Which rule of Ciprian S. Augustin also commendeth vnto vs as a very good rule and worthy to be followed And Vincentius Lirinensis in his
Commonitory doth not more earnestly indeuor any thing then that without any addition we kéepe sincerely that which is deliuered yea it is his onely intent purpose his whole drift desire to teach vs to loue that first was taught and to eschew al new additions Therefore howsoeuer religion at the first was either at Rome or else where truly established yet that is no good argument to proue that it should so continue alwaies Whereof if we would make any doubt let vs looke backe vnto the Church amongst the Iews where God established among them for his seruice and worship euery ceremony so that in euery thing they had plaine direction by Gods lawe how to behaue themselues yet notwithstanding their owne inuentions which they added therto were so many that Christ when he came complained That by their traditions they made Gods cōmandement of no authority And if this befell vnto the people of the Iewes of whom God made especiall choice and tooke them to be his peculier people why may it not befall vnto the Church of Rome that is but one of the places among others which God had chosen to set his name in And if the goodnes which the Apostle commendeth in them was not in them such a continual or eternal inheritance but that they haue long since lost the same as themselues cannot deny how wil they be able to proue that they must haue sincerity of faith for an euerlasting succession I wil not here stand to examine what the Apostle meaneth by this word faith in this place although that perchance might serue to lay their brags For amongst many significations of this word faith there are two that may especially serue for the vnderstanding of that place Sometime faith signifieth religion it selfe or the rule of faith as it is taken in this question what faith or religion do you professe or are you of And in this sence it must be taken in this place to pleasure the papists And in another sence faith may here signify their forwardnes confidence constancy in this their religion and so it semeth that the Apostle here doth vnderstand it And then this is the sence of these words It is spoken of in al the world how readely you receiued constantly continued in the faith And thus doth Chrisostom séeme to expound this place when he saith that the Apostle giueth thanks for their faith confidence as if he would by the latter expounde the former by confidence teach what he meaneth by faith And euen Tho. of Aquin doth so take it The Romans saith he are commended for their faith because they yeelded to it so willingly and stood in it so stifly And this place thus expounded doth not proue their faith to be Catholicke for many are constant that oppugne the Catholicke faith Neither yet will I oppose vnto this some other places where the Apostle may séeme perchaunce to giue as great if not greater commendation vnto other Churches and yet were not they therby aduanced to be the onely patterns that all other should follow as they would haue this of Rome to bée For the Apostle writing to the Thessalonians testifieth of them that they were an example or patern not only to them of Macedonia Achaia but that their faith was spred abroad in all the world Is therfore the faith of the Thessaloniās at this day the true faith because it was so somtime If you say it is not what is said here more for the Church of Rome then was said for that of Thessalonica Although therfore to their immortal praise this iust due commendation belonged vnto them who followed that sincere faith and holy profession which at that time was taught at Rome yet hée cannot as much as séeme to be a Christian as Ciprian saith who continueth not in the trueth of that gospell and faith Whereby it is euident that vnlesse the Church of Rome can shew that they hold that same faith now that their predecessors did whom S. Paul commended this praise of those faithful Romans belongeth no more vnto them then this promise that God made to Abraham That God would be his God and of his séed pertaineth to Ismael and Esau who although they came of Abraham as touching the flesh yet were they and their posterity a godlesse and a gracelesse people But that it may appere as cléere as the Sunne at noone day that vnder an honest cloke of ancient religion they séeke to couer their new found superstitions and whatsoeuer man hath deuised is but new and vnder the name of holy faith they commend vnto vs their grosse Idolatries and most profaned blasphemies My purpose is if God with his good grace shall assist me therein in this short treatise briefly to set downe both the ancient religion of the Romans which at that time was taught and receiued in Rome when this their faith was published in the whole world and also the faith or religion that is now so violently defended of the Church of Rome and is although vniustly called the Catholick Romish religion that we comparing the one of them with the other may sée how vnlike they are and that they cannot flow both from one fountaine or both of them be taught of one spirit And if we will know the auncient religion of the Romans and the faith wherevnto the Apostle giueth so good a witnesse wee can haue no way more certaine then to trie what was taught in the Church of Rome then For that onely can be called that Roman faith that was then taught in that Church and beleeued of the faithfull there All which with reuerence we receiue and most faithfully beléeue But the additions of later times and that which since they haue foysted in vnder the name of that auncient Roman faith wee iustly reiect as water mingled with the pure wine whereby the wine is corrupted or as myre or filth that hath sullied the fined gold whereby the excellencie of the gold is blemished or as tares and wéeds sowen in the field where first good corne was sowen whereby the growing of the good corne is hindered But what so euer the Apostle Saint Paule writing to the Romans doth teach them to beleeue whatsoeuer faith he would haue them to holde that we acknowledge to bee in déede the true Roman faith in the which he is desirous to confirme and strengthen them by some speciall gift and to haue mutuall conference with them no doubt to incourage them to continue constantly therein Yea what soeuer he teacheth in that Epistle whether it bee to establish them in that they had learned or to instruct them more perfectly in any poynte whereof they were yet ignorant I say all that wee imbrace as the auncient faith of the Romans Moreouer whatsoeuer Saint Peter who they say was Bishop of Rome and that hee wrote his first Epistle from Rome for rather then Saint Peter should not be proued
the phisition And why Is it not euery one that standeth in neede may haue the medicine applyed yes verily For it will not otherwise doe them any good Now saith he faith giueth vs this spirituall health which vnlesse the minde receiue withall the heart it doth no good but rather hurt As therefore it doth no good to a diseased body to know that he may haue helpe vnlesse the physicke be ministred to him euen so in these sicknesses of our soule the assaultes of sinne without this particular applicution there can be no helpe Let therefore Master Bellarmine tel vs if he will that his fellow Catholickes of the Romish stamp do hold it rather a presumption then faith To be assured of the promise of speciall grace or mercy yet will we rather holde fast that auncient faith of Rome approued also by sundry fathers then wander with them in their wauering opinion and desperate doctrine But our new Romish teachers can abide nothing lesse then that we should teach men to assure themselues by faith of their saluation And therefore they teach this faith to be but an assent not a confidence and that it may be a generall knowledge not a particular and vndoubted persuasion or trust that we are iustifyed by Christ They take for a patterne of their faith that faith that the diuels haue as before out of Saint Iames I taught that they beleeue yea feare and tremble And while they make faith to be but a bare assent they thinke it an easy matter to beleeue for in deed the most wicked may haue such a fayth by this meanes it commeth to passe that they speake euill of our doctrine which they knowe not For wee doe not teach that popish faith doth iustify which is but an historicall assent to those thinges that are spoken of GOD but we say that that assured persuasion which Sainte Paul commendeth in Abraham and whereof himselfe reioyceth And whereby we are kept by the power of GOD vnto saluation wee teach that that doth not onely iustifie vs before God because it apprehendeth and taketh holde of him by and in whom onely wee are accompted righteousse in Gods sight but God by it doth also purifie our heartes Because it cannot be but that wee will haue a delight in Gods commaundementes if once this assured and vndoubted persuasion of Gods eternall goodnesse towardes vs be planted in our heartes Although therefore we still teach constantlie with our Sauiour Christ his Apostles that fayth without workes doth iustifie speaking of a true fayth and an assured confidence which was the olde Roman fayth yet we wil also say with the new Romanistes that the fayth of the nowe Church of Rome or that fayth which the diuels may haue cannot iustifye But this doth nothing hinder our cause for wee accompt not that bastard Roman faith worthy the name of faith So that in this latter assertion wee yeelde to them And in the former wherein we affirme that faith as it is an assured confidence taking holde of Gods mercy in Christ doth iustifie I would they also woulde yeelde vnto the trueth CHAP. VIII WEe haue séene then the most auncient doctrine of iustification by faith grounded vpon the first promise of the womans seede that shoulde breake the head of the serpent taught by the Apostles who yet ment not thereby to open a gap to licentious life because they speak not there of a deuelish faith a popish faith a dead faith that may be fruitlesse but of such a persuasion and so assured a confidence setled in the heart of the faithfull as will not suffer them to be idle or vnoccupied in godly workes as occasion shall bee offered And if wee looke further into the doctrine taught by the Apostles we shall also learne out of it not onely that it is necessary to doe good works but also howe and to what ende wee shoulde doe them For if our affection in doing them be not sincere if our direction and rule be not Gods holy word if our intention and ende be not Gods glory and the performance of our dutifull obedience vnto our Lord and Lawgiuer whatsoeuer our worke be called in name or seeme in shew it is not in deede a good worke First therefore for our affection not onely our Sauiour Christ who is a heauenly and true teacher of all trueth telleth vs that the trée of our heart cannot bring forth good fruite vnlesse it I meane the tree be good it selfe but also S. Paul teacheth vs that the flesh that is that part of man that is not regenerate striueth against the spirit whereby he is brought to that that Hee doth not the good thing which hee woulde but the euill which he would not And that through The rebelling Lawe in his members rebelling I say against the lawe of his mind and leading him captiue vnto the Lawe of sinne which is in his members Nowe if we marke why the Apostle maketh this complaint and addeth that grieuous and pitifull exclamation O wretched man that I am we must confesse that he was forced thereto because that Although he woulde doe good and had delight in the Lawe of God concerning the inner man yet his rebellious fleshe did trouble and molest him so that he could not so freely so holily and sincerely serue God as he shoulde haue done And that is it that in the sixt chapter he perswadeth vs that we ought not to sinne because we are dead to sinne so that we should not any more haue to doe therewith but should haue our affections freed from the same and wholly bent to serue God in holines And for this cause afterwardes when he beginneth to come to exhortations he layeth this as the ground and foundation of al That we must offer vp our selues euen our owne bodies a sacrifice to God For if we beginne not with our selues euen with our owne affections to haue them sanctified whatsoeuer we doe cannot bee holy And therefore S. Peter also who plentifully exhorteth to the performance of Christian dueties yet telleth vs before that we are elect vnto Sanctification For heereby our affections are reformed that in doing of al our works we may do them with a good heart And afterward he saith Seeing your hearts are purified in obeying the trueth through the spirite to loue brotherly without fayning loue one another with a pure heart feruently In which wordes we cannot but see how sincere an effection the Apostle requireth in performance of this dutie of loue which must also bee a patterne for vs to doe all good workes by for thy heart not béeing sincere thy workes are not pure though they seeme good As for the second point which is that our workes if we will that God shoulde accompt them good should be commaunded in Gods word and agréeable to his will it may appeare to be the auncient faith
from performing their dutyfull obedience as he doth many times by his priuiledges As for indulgences and pardons any bodie that will pray and pay for them may haue them And they that dwell at Rome get yet another maner of blessing with his two fingers wherwith he blesseth the people that gaze at him when he is caried abroad To be short at certain times he blesseth those that are called blessed graines or Agnus dei or such like stuffe and causeth these to be sent into Countries far and neer deluding and deceiuing by such toyes the hearts of the simple therwithall filling their owne panches and purses as though they had gotten or those had giuen some great spirituall gift when they haue some such toy consecrated by the Pope These are his gifts such are his blessings If you would haue better he cannot afford them For he is not for the most part able to preach teach It is against honour and estimation to seek to comfort the afflicted conscience No neither the Pope nor his Colledge of Cardinals will busie themselues in the Ministerie of the word in the abundant blessing wherof Saint Paule reioyceth Is the darknesse more contrarie to the light then are these vain promises or shewes of spirituall comfort verie cloudes without water and trees without fruit of true consolation to that perfect peace of mind and ioy of conscience which the Apostle promiseth vnto them and purposed to work among them by the powerful preaching of the Gospell of peace This this is in deed a true consecrated sword which shall pierce euen to the heart and conscience of the sinner and make a deeper wound then all the hallowed swords that the Popes can sanctifie And thus to be short we see that where Paule commeth he bringeth with him spirituall gifts euen abundance of blessing by the ministerie of the word But the Pope because he cannot skill of such blessings vseth other be blesseth fire water salt oyle swords roses books belles candles palmes ashes wax paper parchments lead pictures or payntings falsely perswading sillie soules that hee is able to put holinesse into them And thus it appeareth that if we consider the doctrine of the Church of Rome examining it with that that was taught in the dayes of Saint Paul and Saynt Peter they are nothing like If their practise they are cleane contrarie so that the new Romish Church hath no cause to brag of that old faith of the Romanes CHAP. XIX AND these are if I bee not deceaued all the points of religion in controuersie betweene vs and the Church of Rome at this day Whereof out of the Apostles epistle to the Romanes wee may gather any certayne doctrine Wherein if we dissent from the religion of the Romish Church that now is that we may iumpe and ioyne with the auncient faith of the Romanes commended by thapostle as spoken of and that worthilie in all the worlde I trust no indifferent Christian that in singlenesse of heart seeketh the trueth either will or can iustly reprooue vs. And as hitherto I haue shewed what consent there is in the groundes of their doctrines betweene S. Paul who wrote to Rome to confirme them in the faith S. Peter who they say wrote from Rome and S. Marke also who wrot his Gospell at Rome as in histories it is recorded so now in one point let vs see what Saint Peter thinketh in one poynt I say not touched by Saint Paule in that epistle although in other places plentifully enough by him deliuered Saint Peter therefore in handling the dueties betweene man and wife doth thereby commend the honourable estate of marriage as a state of life whereof God hath a care and therefore giueth lawes and rules in obseruing whereof husbands and wiues may serue and please God And if he had so verie well liked of single life as they who call themselues his successours doe hee woulde no doubte haue taken occasion to haue put in some caueat for the same But himselfe was maried as the Rhemistes themselues confesse and though out of Hierome they would proue that being called to be an Apostle he forsooke his wife yet how false that is Saint Peter himselfe doth plainely enough declare For he exhorteth Husbands to dwel with their wiues according to knowledge that is to kéepe and continue holily and kindly with them not vngodly and vncourteously to forsake them And shall we imagine that S. Peter would teach others and not himselfe or say one thing and doe another or that in wordes exhorting them not to depart from their wiues by his example he would moue them to leaue them That be farre from vs once to imagine And this we may be sure of that if he had forsaken his wife as our popish Catholickes now or some other in former times iniurious to that holy ordinance did surmise he woulde yet so haue tempered this his general commaundement that his example shoulde not haue béene manifestly repugnant to his doctrine Therefore that he was maried the scriptures report and it is by our aduersaries confessed but that he forsooke his wife it hath no shewe of proofe no colour of trueth Yea further the Apostle doth insinuate that the dwelling together of man and wife in knowledge is a furtheraunce to their prayers And therefore vnto that former exhortation he addeth these wordes That your prayers be not hindred Thereby declaring that the dwelling together of man and wife as they ought to doe is a furtheraunce to their prayers Whereas on the contrarie their separating of themselues in bodie may breede such an alienation of mindes with other great inconueniences as may interrupt their prayers And although S. Peter meane not héereby that they shoulde so continually dwel together as that they might neuer withdraw themselues the more fréely to consecrate as it were and wholly giue them selues to prayer and fasting yet woulde he doubtlesse according to S. Paules rules haue such their abstinence when anie is To be by consent for a time and againe to come together that Sathan shoulde not tempt them for their incontinencie For all men and women are in danger of his assaultes and therefore To auoyd fornication let euery man haue his wife and let euery woman haue her owne husband saith his fellow apostle And although men or women may for a time feele themselues voide of wanton and vnchast lustes yet because Not all men can receiue this thing saue they to whom it is giuen séeing I say it is not in their power but a rare gift of God which how long they shal haue it they are not certain yea to know who giueth it is a high point of wisdome the wiseman saith what madnes is it to promise that which thou canst not performe Or to séeke for that which is not necessarie for thee or to indeuor to please God with that which he requireth not of thée How much better is it
for vs to marke the good councell and godly aduise of S. Paule It is better to marie then to burne and this commandement of the Apostle Peter Let the husbands dwell with their wiues as men of knowledge And this is the auncient faith and the holy practise of the Church of Rome in her purer age But the Church of Rome since that time which would seem more holy then euer god made her or more perfect then he requireth prophanely accompting of this holy ordinanuce as not pure inough for their vnpure Priests will not admit any into their holy orders of Prieste or deacon that will not wholy renounce for euer this holy institution and vowe to lyue alwayes a single life Which their impious and seruile ordinances hath not one probable proofe out of Gods word neither was it the auncient doctrine of the Church of Rome in somuch as some of them selues euen halfe ashamed of their forefathers doings confesse that in the primitiue Church there was no such thing required but that all men that would might marye As for such as are maryed if they wilbe made priestes or enter into their orders they must not by their tirannicall decree and decretals any more dwell with their wiues as S. Peter willeth but they must rather defraude one an other foreuer which Paul forbideth and with greate reason mysliketh Thus this their vowing of perpetuall single life they doe not onely highly commend but also do force their clergy to obserue the same yet it is not in al the Scripturs old nor new once commanded or cōmended vnto that calling aboue any other not once spoken of or practised that can appeare in the old Roman Church And formance of the duties of mariage which so straitly thapostles require of all that are maried without exception is not onely not furthered in the Romish Church that now is but also hindered in some with great seueritie And in such sort do they in all points almost behaue themselues as if they were of purpose disposed or set vp if not quite to abolish yet dangerously to corrupt alter and change whatsoeuer Christ and his Apostles left pure sincere And thus much of the contrarietie of their doctrine that nowe call themselues the Church of Rome to that which thapostles taught among the Romanes Now therefore in respect of their cloked falshood as Barnard speaketh in that they hide as he saith that which is true falsly inuent that which is not wee may iustly say of the Church of Rome as the same Father complaneth of the whole Church but especially in respect of the pride and abuse of that Church Al friends and all foes all necessaries all aduersaries all of one house none that insue after peace al neighbors all seeke their owne all Christes seruaunts all serue Antichrist Or as in another place hee bemoaneth the pitifull estate of the Church Peace in respect of pagans peace from heretikes but no peace with false children Thou O Lord Iesus hast multiplied the people but hast not increased our ioy because many are called but few are chosen And how little cause the Church of Rome hath to reioyce in her Catholikenes and to brag of her multituds how little cause she hath to increase her ioy if she thinke earnestly of it let the godly reader indifferently consider For seeing shee leadeth men from the pure waters of the worde of trueth vnto the vnsauorie pudles of her owne inuentions and hath corrupted that sincere milke that the auncient Romanes fed vpon with the poyson of her owne traditions wherewith the Church of Rome is now most dangerously aud deadly infected the moe that follow her the mo shall testifie that they are deceaued by her the greater that the multitude is that shee misleadeth the heauier in the end shall her iudgement be For seeing the inhabitants of the earth and drunken with the wine of her fornication therefore shal her plagues come at one day death and sorow and famine and shee shalbe burnt with fire for strong is the Lord God which will condemne her CHAP. XX. NOW besides these things which this degenerat Romishe Synagogue teacheth and doth contrary to the Doctrine and practice of the godly in the first and purer age of that auncient Church of Rome there are also many other things reckoned now in the Romishe Church for some principall poyntes of religion the denial or very doubting whereof would be punished among them with death and distruction which were not then among the godly once named or thought vpon nay rather which doe mightely and manifestly impugne that which they taught But because my purpose is in this treatise only to shew how farre vnlike that auncient fayth of the Romanes is to this new religion of the Romish Church by comparing that olde faith with this newe Religion which hitherto I haue siucerly doone it shall be sufficient onely to name these doctrines and doings which now they haue inso great accompt as I can remember them vntill they prooue out of such histories of that Romane faith as are of good record that they were vsed in that primitiue Roman Church First for that their gaynefull market and faire of Purgatorye fire where doe they finde it in the fore named writings In what place of S. Paules Epistle to the Romanes in what text out of S. Peter or S. Marke Out of S. Paule to the Romans they will not so much as dreame of anie proofe neither yet dare the learneder sort of them alleadge any thing out of saint Peter But yet the Rhemistes woulde fayne make the ignorant beleeue that there is somewhat in saint Peter for proofe of deliuering the soules out of some place of torment after this life What that place is they dare not tell vs confidently that it is Limbus patrum the place where they imagine the faythfull Fathers before Christ after death were kept they will not affirme And they doe the more wisely For saint Peter there saith onely thus much that Christ who was alwayes present with his Church Preached in spirit not going downe in soule to the spirits or soules that are nowe in prison which were in time past disobedient nowe this presence of Christ beeing but in power of his spirit to wit of his diuinitie of godhead Agayne it was to the destruction of those disobedient and stubberne men that would not heare Noah his preaching for but viii soules onely were saued and therefore howe little this will helpe their Purgatorie now or Limbus patrum then it is easie to sée But on the contrarie S. Marke doth plainly wring from them one of the places which especially they rest vppon for proofe of their purgatorie For whereas our Sauiour Christ in sainte Matthew speaking of the sinne against the holy Ghost saith It shall not be forgiuen him neither in this world not in the world to come Therefore say they there are sinnes