hoc fundatus veritatis obtinet canon contra hoc robur contra hunc Inexpugnabilem murum quisquis arietat ipse confringitur Is it not on the Church her Infallible Authority St. Augustine admits the Scriptures contr Ep. fund c. 5. Ego vero Evangelio non crederem nisi me Ecclesiae commoveret Authoritas Doth he not stick so close to the same Authority of the Church that he sayes Ep. fund c. 4. If any clear testimony were brought out of Scripture against it he would neither believe Scripture nor Church for that on the Church her Authority he believed the Scripture Quod si forâ—e in Evangelio aliquid apertissimum de Manichaei apostolatu invenire potueris infirmabis mihi Catholicorum Authoritatem qui jubent ut tibi non credam quâ infirmatâ jam nec Evangelio credere potero quia per eos illi credideram Was not the Church Judge in Religion for the first two thousand years before any Scriptures were written Was not again the Church of the Jews the same Judge after the Law was given till Christ his time and this by the express Order of God in Scripture Deut. 17. v. 8. would God there direct them unto a Judge and punish them with death for not obeying in matters of the Law and Religion an Authority which might any wise deceive them Or in the Law of Grace it self has Christ in St. Matth. 18. v. 17. commanded us to hear a Church not Infallible or subject to errour Is not the Church of God built on a Rock so that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against her S. Matth. 16.19 Has not the Church this promise from Christ S. Matth. 28.20 And loe I am with you even to the end of the world Is not the Church called by the Apostle S. Paul 1 Tim. 3.13 The Ground and Pillar of Truth However Mr. Menzeis will have this ground sole Scripture In fine if these and such like Texts we should hear the Church receive her Decisions obey her commands be not clear what is clear in all the Scripture or if they be subject to diverse Interpretations who can better judge of their true sense then the same Church Will you say Natural Reason with the Socinians or the private spirit with Anabaptists and Quakers or conferring of places and passages with Protestants Is there any one more rational then the whole Church of God any spirit to be trusted rather then the Spirit of Truth promised to her or any one better versed in all the places of Scripture then all the Bishops and Pastors of the Church composing her Supreme Judicatory in a general Council Let us hear I pray you the Fathers upon this I mean the Authority both of Church and Councils as an Infallible Visible Judge the better to silence Mr. Menzeis vain glorious bragging S. Irenaeus l. 1. c. 49. We must believe those Priests that are in the Church those that have a succession from the Apostles who together with Episcopal Power have according to the good pleasure of the Father received the certain gift of truth And again the same S. Irenaeus c. 62. the Church shall be under no mans judgment he excepts not Mr. Menzeis yea nor Luther nor Calvin to reform her for to the Church all things are known in which is perfect Faith of the Father and of the dispensation of Christ and firm knowledge of the Holy Ghost who teacheth all truth Origen praef in lib. periarch That only is to be believed for truth which in nothing disagrees from the Tradition of the Church and in understanding Scripture we must not believe otherwise then as the Church of God hath by succession delivered to us S. Cyprian de unit eccl That the Church cannot be adulterated with Heresy S. Chrysostom in c. 2. is That all the Hereticks in the World cannot pervert her Doctrine S Cyril of Jerusalem Catech. Myst 18. That what she once hath received from Christ she ever holds S. Cyril of Alexandria l. 5. in Is c. 54. That she is founded by Christ in truth for 〈◊〉 S. Ambrose l. 4. Hexam c. 2. That she cannot fail Eusebius Caesariensis de praeparat Evang. l. 1. c. 3. That her Faith is invincible to the very Powers of Hell S. Augustine l. 4. de bapt c. 4. I know by Divine Revelations that the Spirit of Truth teacheth the Church all truth S. Augustine again l. de Utilit cred c. 16. Fear not to run to the bosom of the Church which by succession of Bishops descending from the Apostolical Sea manifestly even to the acknowledgment of all mankind hath obtained the height of Authority Hereticks who on every side barked against her being partly by the consent of Nations partly by the Authority of Councils partly by the Majesty of Miracles condemned to which Church not to yield primacy is a point either of highest Impiety or headlong Arrogancy In fine the same S. Augustine Ep. 118. To think not right what the Catholick Church practises is most insolent madness I leave to the Physicians judgment what foot of this Distemper and Madness had the first Reformers of the Church not only thinking and calling what she practised Idolatry and Superstition but even judging and condemning her of Apostacy Schism and Heresy as Mr. Menzeis here of Arrogancy and Pride Odi Ecclesiae illius fastum I hate says he that Churches Pride speaking of the Catholick Roman Church for calling her self Infallible but let me answer him as Plato Diogen Calcas Ecclesiae fastum majore fastu he most persumptuously accuses her of Pride no lawful establisht Judicatory being proud in censuring private Delinquents as they deserve but Rebels to their lawful Judges in censuring them both Presumptuous and Proud with him But least any with Mr. Menzeis should apply all these Testimonies of the Fathers to the diffusive body of the Church and not to the Representative in a general Council as if the one were Infallible in Believing and not the other in Teaching according to that promise of Christ in S. Matth. 28.20 Go teach all Nations and lo I am with you all days to the end of the world We must remark that when the necessary good and preservation of the Church requires the performance of Christs words and promises in future ages no less then in the Apostles time then we are to take them for all ages except there be some express limitation made as to Preach Baptise remit Sins feed his Flock lead men in all Truth c. Yet because each Apostle had a power over all the Church this is said to every one of them but to their Successors who have not each one this power together in a Council which for this all the Fathers in all ages have acknowledged as a Soveraign and Infallible Judicatory what ever Mr. Menzeis standing to his Great Principle say to the contrary Thus S. Cyril l. 10. de trin averres Decrees of General Councils to be most Holy and Divine Oracles S. Leo
off to ground their greatness on new Conquests And the Naturalists observe that Trees and Plants do presently fade when their Roots do not spread as the Branches spring up So the Protestant Religion should have instantly been chocked in its Rise and as smothered in the Cradle If Protestants standing constantly to their first Principle had still rejected the Doctrine of the Church under the specious pretence of adhering only to the pure and naked Word as a Ground most pure and clear Scriptures making so clearly against them Wherefore though the first Reformers as I shall presently shew did disclaim the Doctrine of the Church in any Age after the Apostles as infallible or Ground of Faith disclaim the Fathers disclaim Miracles disclaim a Succession from any Yet others after the first heat of passion had a little relented finding all this most disgraceful and a most evident Conviction of their Errours and fearing their Religions both fall and ruine if not speedily propped claim a Succession though from Old condemned Heresies with M. Menzeis here from the Waldenses Wickliffians Hussits as we have seen Cite the Fathers though either to no purpose or else corruptedly with Du Plessis so evidently confuted by the Cardinal Du Peron pretend to Miracles with M. Pool in his Nullity of the Romish Faith though falsly most Protestants disowning Miracles since the Apostles time and all the world witnessing it did never see a Miracle amongst them yea they grant in fine the diffusive body of the Church to be infallible in believing but not the Representative or Pastors even assembled in a General Council Infallible in Teaching with M. Menzeis again here Who upon this gives us for a second Ground of the Protestant Religon The Doctrine of the Church in the first three Centuries or Ages The sole reason he gives for the Churches Doctrine as being a Ground of Faith at that time is because if the Catholick Religion was not then purely conserved in her it was no where to be found ab sit says he blasphemia which without blasphemy cannot be thought Whereupon I first reflect that if it be blasphemy to deny the Catholick Religion must always be purely conserved in some Church many chief Protestants surely speak open blasphemy who most boldly affirm before the Reformation made by Luther and Calvin no Church to have conserved true Religion in its purity at all Luther comment in 1 Cor. 1.15 I was the first to whom God vouchsafed to reveal these Doctrines which are now Preached this praise they cannot take from us that we were the first that brought light to the world Without our help no man had ever learned one word of the Ghospel This M. Wotton both acknowledgeth and confirmeth in Exam. Jur. Rom. Luther might well say he was the first a Son without a Father a Schollar without a Master c. Calvin in an Epistle of his to Melancthon It doth not a little concern us sayes he that not the least suspition of any Discord risen amongst us descends to Posterity for it were a thing more then absurd after we have been constrained to make separation from the whole world if we in our beginning should also divide from one another Chillingworth Ch. 5. Sect. 55. as for the External Communion of the visible Church we have without Scruple formerly granted that Protestants did forsake it Bucer p. 660. All the world erred he speaks before the Reformation in that Article of the Real Presence Bibliander in orat ad princip Germ. c. 72. it is without all question that from the time of Gregory the great the Pope is the Antichrist who with his abomination hath made drunk all Kings and people from the highest to the lowest Brochard on the second Ch. Rev. p. 4. when the first assault was made upon the Papacy by Luther the knowledge of Christ was wanting in all and every one of his members White in his defence C. 37. Pa. 136. Popery was a Leprosie breeding so universally in the Church that there was no visible company of men appearing in the world free from it Bennet Morgentern in his Treatise of the Church calls it ridiculous to say any before Luther had the purity of the Gospel Simon Voyon Cat. Doct. in his Epistle to the Reader says when Pope Boniface was installed then was that universal Apostacy from the Faith which was foretold by Paul M. Jewel upon the Revelation fol. 110. The truth was then unheard of when Luther and Zwingle came to preach the Ghospel Febustian Francus in his Epistle of abrogating Ecclesiastical Statutes says for certain through the work of the Antichrist the External Church together with the faith and Sacraments vanished away presently after the Apostles departure and for these thousand and four hundred years the Church hath been no where External and Visible From all which Testimones of most renowned Protestants yea and of the very first Reformers is evidently proved First that they did not think any visible Church to have conserved at all times the purity of the Gospel which M. Menzeis calls blasphemy to deny Secondly that they claim not a Succession from any that went before them except only from the Apostles what ever later Protestants do falsly pretend Thirdly that they own no more the diffusive body of the Church infallible then the Representative seeing no Church prosessing the Doctrine they did teach is acknowledged by them for many hundred years before the Reformation Fourthly That Popery was the only Religion generally prevailing and openly professed for no less time then fourteen hundred years before Luther Fifthly how well M. Menzeis agreeth with other Protestants in this his second Ground of Faith You shall presently God willing hear both greater and better witnesses deposing against him but first I ask what peculiar reason he has why the Church in her childhood and younger age should be a ground of Faith and not afterwards and in her full maturity as we grant her the fulness of Divine Wisdom even from her birth which did not increase by age so by age it cannot decay We shall now presently see how like the Protestant Church is to that of the three first Centuries but before this I would know why M. Menzeis gives her Doctrine rather for a ground then in following times Is there any peculiar promise made to her any particular reason militates for her or any testimonies of the Scriptures or Fathers given to her in one time rather then in another was her Doctrine then purer her Condition more flourishing her authority greater Doth not M. Menzeis grounding his Faith upon the Doctrine of the Church in any age after the Apostles confirm that Romish Tenet of the Church Doctrine as a Ground in other Ages by parity of reason Secondly I reflect that M. Menzeis who will admit of no Infallible Visible Judg of Controversie of no Infallible Tradition not contained in Scripture nor of any Assembly of the Fathers and Pastor of the Church in
every one Point of our Religion and Faith Now to prove what I have set down to be the only true solid and infallible Grounds of the true Christian and Catholick Faith 1. That Scripture is this Ground is granted by M. Menzeis and all Protestants so needs no proof as to them 2. That sole Scripture without the Declaration and Exposition of the Church as an infallible Propounder Expounder and Judge cannot be this Ground is proved at length in my fourth Section and presently you shall see it again 3 That Apostolical Traditions are necessarily joyned with Scripture Is 1. proved from clear Scriptures most expresly commanding us to receive them 2 Thes 2.13 Therefore brethren stand fast and hold the Traditions which ye have been taught whether by word or by Epistle 2 Thess 3.6 Now I command you brethren in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that ye withdraw your selves from every Brother that walketh disorderly and not after the Traditions which he received 1 Corinth 11.2 Remember me in all things and keep the Traditions as I delivered them to you 2. By the Authority of the Fathers of the first three ages quoted in my sixth Section with that of S. Chysostome S. Augustine and others above mentioned 3. From manifest and Demonstrative reason in some chief Points which all Christians believe without any express Scripture as I have instanced in persons in the Trinity Sacraments in the Church the keeping of Sunday c. and in many Heresies condemned by the Church Councils Fathers yea and Protestants themselves without any clear Scripture can be brought against them as S. Augustine avoucheth of the Errour of Donatists c. Rests then only to prove that the Church's Authority as an infallible Propounder is necessary to make all these Divine and infallible Truths in themselves contained either in Scripture or delivered by Apostolical Tradition both solid and infallible Grounds to us For this I presuppose 1. From the Apostle S. Paul Hebrews 11. That without Faith it is impossible to please God 2. From the same Apostle Ephes 4.5 That there is but one Faith one Baptism one Lord JESUS Christ 3. From him again Hebr. 10.23 That we must hold fast the profession of our Faith without wavering From which Texts importing the Necessity of Faith the Unity of Faith and the steadiness in believing required in Divine Faith it doth follow that some infallible means which all may make use of must be appointed by God to attain to this Faith so absolutely necessary to all For to say God hath commanded us and that under the pain of Eternal Damnation to believe undoubtedly and not furnished infallible means to attain to such belief were to accuse his Goodness Providence and Wisdom And this no Christian or rational man will deny so that all the Question that can be moved is about the infallible means to attain without doubt or wavering to Divine Faith which may perswade infallibly all sort of persons that such things are revealed by God removing all reasonable doubts that can arise either concerning Gods Revelation which is the formal object of Faith or the things he hath revealed which makes its material Object and this means I say again must not only be solid and infallible objectively and in it self as M. Menzeis will have the Protestant Religion and Grounds of it but also subjectively and to us it being the same thing as to make a perswasive motive not to appear and not to be according to that Maxime Idem est non esse non apparere Wherefore a ground however infallible in it self yet not appearing so to us and known to be such availeth nothing as to our belief The Mathematicians Demonstrate the Sun to be many times greater then the Earth and their Demonstration no doubt is both certain and evident in it self yet never shall perswade a Country clown that it is greater then his Cap for that no Demonstration of this is clear and certain to him Even so is it in the Ground of Faith it must be both solid and and infallible in it self and it must be known to be such by all who prudently rely upon it This presupposed to conclude all that has been said and fully prove both the Ground of Faith in the Catholick Roman Church solid as the Rock it is built on and the means for conveying it to us infallible I first show against M. Menzeis or rather for him and his conversion the necessity of an infallible Propounder of what â—e must undoubtedly believe for if this can be made good he engageth again to turn Papist 2. That the true Church is this infallible Propounder â— That the Catholick Roman Church is the only true Church 1. Then as to the necessity of an infallible Propounder If no men no Church be infallible in propounding then holy Scripture and consequently all that is contained in it is only delivered to us by fallible means and so no infallible certainty in Faith The consequence is clear for most infallible Truths may be changed altered corrupted and both fallibly and falsly propounded to us as the first and chief Mysteries of the Christian Religion by Hereticks have been 2. Faith comes of hearing says the Apostle then as there be infallible believers and hearers so must there be infallible Teachers for Hearing and Teaching are Correlatives 3. No other infallible means is or can be assigned by Protestants to Ignorants yea to all who understand not the Original Languages for what is contained in Scripture save only the Authority of their Pastors and Church but this Authority in propounding is not acknowledged infallible by them then no infallible means is left 4. There is no less necessity the Church be infallible in propounding then the Evangelists in penning and the Apostles in Preaching no disparity can be given Gods Word being equally infallible in it self before both as iâ— is now 5. Our Saviour Christ most expresly owns the necessity of an infallible propounder granting the Jews had not sinned in refusing to believe him if by his Works and Wonders he had not evidenced himself to be the Son of God and consequently infallible in his Doctrine 6. For this the gift of Miracles is given to the Apostles and left in the Church to show their infallible assistance in propounding If you answer that was necessary at first but not now because it is the same Doctrine you teach which the Apostles did propound infallibly You say nothing for that it is we doubt of or rather undoubtedly we deny that your Doctrine is the same You presently appeal to Scripture but in vain till first you answer to all that is objected in my fourth Section how ye know infallibly what ye call Scripture to be Gods Word then the Letter you read to be uncorrupted the sense you give to the genuine c. and to all the clear places of Scripture I have brought against most of your particular Tenets I do not here ask
as the Word of God upon the sole Authority of the Church As M. Whitaker against Stapleton p. 1. c. 11. I deny not but the Churches Tradition is the Argument whereby to convince what Books are Canonical and what not M. Fulk in his Answer to a Counterfeit Catholick The Church hath judgment to discern the Word of God from the Writings of Men. M. Covel in his defence of Hooker Doubtless it is a tolerable Opinion of the Church of Rome to affirm that the Scriptures are holy in themselves but so esteemed of us for the Authority of the Church And M. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical Policy we all know that the first outward Motive leading men so to esteem of Scripture is the Authority of the Church And as these own her Authority in Propounding the Scripture Books so other Protestants in resolving all Doubts and deciding all Debates as Bancroft Lord Archbishop of Canterbury in his Sermon on the 8. of February 1588. God says he hath bound himself to his Church of purpose that men by her direction might in matters of doubt be relieved he speakes of the Representative Church which onely directeth Master Field in the Epistle to his Treatise of the Church Seeing the Controversies of Religion are grown in number so many and in Nature so Intricate that few have time and leasure fewer strength of understanding to examine them what remaineth for men desirous of satisfaction in things of such consequence but diligently to search out which among all the Societies of men in the World is that blessed company of holy ones that houshold of Faith that Spouse of Christ and Church of the living God the Pillar and Ground of Truth that so they may imbrace her Communion follow her Doctrine and rest in her judgement Here again the Representative Church both Judging and Teaching M. Hooker in the Preface of his Books of Ecclesiastical Policy We are right sure of this that Nature Scripture and Experience have taught the World to seek for the ending of Contentions by submitting it self to some judicial and definitive sentence whereunto neither part that contendeth may under any pretence refuse to submit And what is this but a General Council M. Bilson in his perpetual Government is clear for it To have no Judge sayes he for the ending of Ecclesiastical Contentions were the utter subversion of all peace Synods are surest means to decide doubts Sr. Edwin Sands in his Relation of the Religion used in the West parts of the World The Protestants are as severed and scattered Troops each drawing a diverse way without any means to take up their Controversies c. No ordinary way to Assemble a General Council of their part which is the only hope remaining ever to aswage their Contentions 3. Reason evinceth it The true Church is the School of infallible and Divine Truths then she must have infallible Masters and Propounders A fallible Church is most properly named by a Learned Writer a Spiritual cheat it may well be called the Ground of Opinion Doubt and Despair but not of Infallible and Divine Faith If the Sheep hearing the voice of their Pastors and following them be misled who shall be their sure Guide And if all the Fathers and Doctors of the Church together assembled may mistake either the uncorrupted Letter or true sense of Scripture who I pray you can assure himself he takes it aright No infallibility in matteâ—â— of Faith and Religion is left upon Earth 〈◊〉 the high Bishop and chief Pastors of the Church unanimously Teaching and Propounding cannot err It were more then madness any man should say the contrary and yet hold himself infallibly secure of what he believes Would a Protestant be but once at the pains to speak to an Infidel for his conversion to the true Church calling all her Pastors even assembled in a Council fallible I should willingly hear what he could so much as say in general for Protestancy yea or for the Christian Religion No doubt he should first speak of one true God then of Christ and Faith in him as necessary to salvation telling his Proselyte how out of his Goodness and Mercy towards us he had made himself Man and died upon the Cross for our sins Yet afterwards had risen again and by his Miracles showen both his Civinity and Power and by these strange Works and Wonders having established his Church he had delivered his Will and Doctrine to her in his Written Word called the Holy Scripture Upon this the Infidel no little astonished at such a Discourse surely should ask him some Ground for it and how he could be perswaded it were true Here I imagine the Bible is produced as the Word of God and sole ground of Faith But who assures me of this says the infidel It was attested by many Miracles which Christ and the Apostles did work who first preâ—â—hed it Answers the Protestant they were holy men chosen by our Saviour Christ for the conversion of the World they did Teach his Word Infallibly They did set it down in Writing confirmed it with Wonders and left it to the Church How long ago replies the Infidel Nigh 1700. years answers again the Protestant One Question more says the Infidel have you any infallible Witness in your Church or any Infallible External Motive that this is the same Word of God that was Preached by the Apostles and delivered by Christ or that in confirmation of it ever any Miracle was wrought The first needs none says the Protestant it is clear to all well disposed persons turn Protestant and you will Evidently see it to be the Word of God and the second is sufficiently attested in it Presently the Infidel having received further instruction in most Points of Protestancy and made more earnest to see how all that has been taught him is true desires he may have for a time the Bible and diligently perusing it finds some things in the Historical Books look like Fables many more in the Prophets he doth not understand many seeming contradictions betwixt the two Testaments many points he was taught by his Protestant Master not in Scripture at all yea many things clearly against it Of all which he asks his Master a diligent account And first whether at present there be no man or company of men can resolve him infallibly of all these doubts None concludes the Protestant but Scripture it self for since the Apostles there is in the Church no Judg no Propounder infallible If so Sir you conclude nothing with me says the Infidel but here I end with you for the Book you ground all you have said upon as if it were clear and infallible to me like the first Principles in our Philosophers Schools is so deeply obscure and highly above the reach of reason that without some powerful motive and inducement no reasonable man can believe it And since you grant it was at first propounded with infallible Motives which now have ceased It seems God would
have it believed no more For who can prudently believe things not clear in themselves or at least not so to us without some infallible Propunder evidencing by Supernatural Motives as Miracles that such a Doctrine is from God Neither can a Protestant standing to his Principles say any more whence no conversion of Infidels amongst them But no end of their cavelling with us They here urge 1. Suppose the true Church were infallible in her Pastors assembled in a Council yet all we bring in proof of this may be retorted against our private Teachers who are not infallible in propounding But to this it is easily answered that as God most infallibly both by his general Providence and particular Promise directs rules and governs his Church so she by vertue of his special assistance oversees infallibly her private persons in order to our certainty in Faith For in the holy Hierarchy of the Church God hath placed Watchmen most vigilant over their flocks who suffer them not to be misled they have discovered the very least Errors sowen in Corners and branded their Authors as false Teachers Wherefore as unity in belief is the Form and Soul of that great body of the Catholick or Universal Church so whatever Doctrine is commonly taught and received in her without any contradiction from her Pastors is sufficiently known to be infallible 2. They object there is no infallible Propounder of this Article of our Faith The Church is Infallible Answer Yes 1. God shows himself the Propounder of this in the Markes of the Church which we shall presently see 2. As our Saviour Christ calling himself the Son of God and working Miracles did sufficiently yea infallibly evidence to the Jews that it was true what he said So the Church calling her self infallible and working the like Miracles in all Ages doth infallibly evidence to the world that it is true what she says otherwise it would follow that God did employ his Omnipotency and Power to work Miracles in favour of an Impostor thus cheating the world with a lye 3. Therefore I say the Catholick Roman Church is the only true Church in which the Doctrine of Christ is infallibly propounded and certainty in Faith and Salvation to be found This Point is of highest concern according to the Fathers For it is only the Catholick Church says Lactantius l. 4. that hath the true Worship and Service of God That is the Well-spring of Truth the dwelling place of Faith the Temple of God into which whosoever entereth not and from which whosoever departeth is without all hope of Life and Salvation Whosoever is divided from her says S. Augustine in his Epistle 152. how laudable soever he seems to himself to live for this only crime that he is separated from the unity of Christ he shall be excluded from life and the wrath of God shall remain upon him And again in his 50. Epistle as a Member cut off wants the spirit of life so a man separated from the body of Christ cannot have the spirit of Justice c. They have not the Holy Ghost who are out of the Church S. Cyprian de Unitat. Eccl. The Spouse of Christ cannot be defiled with adultery whosoever divided from this Church cleaveth to the Adulteress he is separated from the Promises of the Church he cannot have God for his Father who hath not the Church to his Mother S. Irenaeus l. 3. C. 40. in the Church God hath constituted Apostles Prophets Doctors and all the rest of the Operation of the Spirit whereof those are not partakers who repare not unto the Church where the Church is there is the Spirit of God Vincentius Lyrinensis contr haeres C. 1. 2. says That he having very often most diligently inquired of many Holy and Learned men how he might certainly distinguish the true Catholick Faith from all Heresies it was ever answered him by the Law of God and the Tradition of the Church Divinae legis authoritate Catholicae ecclesiae traditione Then making to himself the common Objection of Protestants seeing the Rule of Scripture is perfect what necessity of joyning to it the Tradition of the Church He presently Answers because all take not Scripture one way and in the same sense because of its deepness All the Fathers run upon this out of the Catholick Church no true Religion no Divine Faith no infallible Guide no sure way to Salvation no hope of Heaven no means to attain Eternal Happiness and Life Wherefore God by his Divine Appointment Order and Decree having tyed us and that under no less pain then the damnarion of our Souls to live in the Unity and Communion of this Church in which only he has placed the Chair of his Doctrine and Channels of his Graces I presuppose 1. This Church may be easily known and that by clear Marks in all Ages and by all she being so amply great and Eminently high that the Prophet Isa Ch. 2. calls her The Mountain of the Lords house established in the top of Mountains and exalted above the Hills to which all Nations should flow 2. Tat those Marks be the same now which did evidence her in Christs and in the Apostles time for all things are best conserved by the same means by which they received their being says the Phylosophers Conservatio continuata productio 3. That whatever Church is found to have these Marks should be undoubtedly acknowledged for the true one otherwise they could not have proved her the true Church at first This presupposed that the Catholick Roman Church is the only true Church I most evidently prove in short for this hath been often done in large volumns and that by a very few undoubted Signes and as it were most legible Characters of the Primitive Church in the time of the Apostles paralelling the one with the other Three things are chiefly remarkable in the Apostles and Church under them 1. Their Sanctity and Holiness of Life 2. The great conversion of Infidels wrought by them 3. Their manifold and wonderful Miracles These be the Marks of their mission by which they show themselves to be the servants of God to be sent by God and that God by his Vertue and Power concurreth and cooperateth with them Their Holy Humble Poor and Austere Life makes them like to their Master Christ and fit Instruments for the great Employment they are going about Miracles make their Credential Letters and witness the fulness of their power Conversions are the end of their Embassy which as it was to last till all the Nations of the earth were brought to the Unity of Faith and bosome of the Church according to that Promise of Christ There shall be one shepherd and one Fold so their true Successors are constantly known by the same Signs in all Ages as the undoubted Marks and Badge of the Apostles I begin at Miracles which I call the Apostles Credentials and make the chief infallible Mark of the true Church and all
SCOLDING NO SCHOLARSHIP IN THE ABYSS OR GROUNDLES GROUNDS OF The Protestant Religion as holden out by M. Menzeis in his Brawlings against M. Dempster We have heard of the Pride of Moab he is very proud even of his haughtiness and his Pride and his wrath but his lyes shall not be so Isaiah 16. V. 6. According to Protestants Translation The house of God which is the Church of the living God the Pillar and Ground of Truth 1 Tim. 3.15 Printed for the Author 1669. Sr. William Baird of Newbaith Bart. AN Advertisement HAving but a very few things whereof to Advertise the Reader I address no Epistle to him Yet one thing I must friendly tell him being to ask a Courtesie or two at his hands 1. Then he shall know this short Reply to Mr. Menzeis greater Book was offered to the Press at Aberdene within a moneth after it first appeared but the Stationer being inhibited by Publick Authority and that as is thought at M. Menzeis desire I was forced first to make it to be transcribed and then fitted for abroad where it is not easie to us to have any thing well Printed or returned in hast 2. I must beg upon this account the Errata and faults in Orthography may be excused I not being present to correct them 3. I desire none would think tedious or superfluous in some Sections very many Quotations yea some even here and there repeated for that in questions of fact things cannot be otherwise proved and to remit the Reader either to the first Authours of them or the places wherein they were cited before or in other Controversie Books were to divert his thoughts and attention and put him to such pains as few will take 4. I pray that he do not mistake me in refuting M. Menzeis Grounds for I onely take to prove that the Scripture and Doctrine of the Primitive Church can be no ground to Protestants denying an Infallible Visible Judge for both these as infallibly propounded by the true Church I most cordially imbrace and wish all may do with me AN Answer to a Letter sent from Aberdene with Mr. John Menzeis his Reply to Mr. Dempster for Reclaiming a Country Gentleman from Popery SIR YOur Letter shewing equally such zeal for the Protestant Cause and affection to me hath made me read the Book inclosed with such a Character of the Writer as carefully as if it contained Responses and as impartially as if I were a Seeker The Question here moved I ingenuously grant is the main Point if solidly answered could best reclaim me and most of my Profession who amid'st so many Storms raised against us have no small motive to comply if we could look at present to our little Temporal Interest without making a greater and Eternal loss whereof there could be no hazard if Protestants as is here debated could shew any assured and infallible ground for what they profess This Sir is all Mr. Dempster through all his ten Papers requires and we with him he propounds and states the Question most clearly and smoothly though in homely terms by reason of his long absence from home he makes no Digression from the main Point what ever be replyed beside yet engageth after this Point once decided to answer what ever is here retorted instanced or urged against him he answers humbly and mildly however provok'd with most bitter and lofty words Like another Fabius or old Warriour he keeps his Post neglecting all the Flowrishes and Skirmishes of his insulting Adversary who having engaged under his hand to defend the Protestant Religion the onely occasion of this Dispute strives still nevertheless fâ—de arte punicâ that is most deceitfully to impugne the Catholick Roman Faith with a like success to that of Hannibal who let Carthage be demolished and redacted to ashes whil'st he insisted in vain to Sack and Ruine Rome And this is proper to him with most Hereticks all Heresy tending rather to destruction then edification Atheisme rather then Religion and to question what hath been since Christ and his Apostles constantly believed in the Church of God rather then to settle their own new wavering and inconstant Faith upon any solid Principle or Ground Yet Mr. Menzeis most confidently thinking he had got as an unbloody so an undoubted victory hearing his Adversary was dead Petitions the Senate of Aberdene as for a Triumph that his Papers may be put in Print His Learning Loyalty and Religion most justly deserving it for as he is of a daring and stirring spirit so in all things Martially minded his Learning being most in Polemics his Loyalty much in debate and his Religion ever in controversy nevertheless as Umpire in all he deserveth well a Crown as his late late Victory by the Pen a Chariot of Paper This his Triumphal Chariot is not drawn but carried in the Air with high and violent blasts most suitable to his fierceness in fighting with a scolding and railing Tongue which makes his Adversaries deepest wounds Before it go indeed some worthy Persons at least in black upon white and in the Paper follow immediately the flying Colours wherein his late Arms sent from Edenbrough viz. The Bible reversed do shine with this new Motto I take from the present Subject The Grounds of the Protestant Religion The acclamations of the People are not wanting in the mouthes of some sighing Sisters He is Herauld himself sounding constantly his own praises aloud nothing is brought into the Treasury as in Triumphs had wont in old but some hundred Marks for the charges of the Triumph that is the Printing of the Papers exported One thing onely is wanting practised in such glorious showes one Admonitor sitting with the Triumpher to keep him in mind of humane weakness least too great honour should so puff him up as to think himself above the condition of men And this defect Sir I intend to supply in perusing his Book advertising him now and then of some weakness both in Conduct Courage and Strength as his Answers to the Question propounded shall deserve And first if I should answer his most invective Babling Scoldings and Railings with all the Venom he spits out to Ciment the Grounds of his Religion I could easily pay him home even with the general Applause and Acclamations of most Protestants amongst whom the more Moderate and most constant Professors scarce own him his Religion or Grounds as best knowing his Arragant Proud Contentious Spirit his unbridled Tongue his scandalous Carriage in so many Encounters his wavering Belief unsetled Faith and how oft he hath been Episcopal Presbyterian Independent His Pulpit jars with his Collegue in the time of the Covenant his base complyance with the Usurper in the time of Rebellion his variance with his Bishop at the time the Government of the Church was re-establisht how many living Witnesses have heard him Preach and foment Schism and Divisions in the Church Sedition in the State and even treacherous and Treasonable Sermons against
Protestant Writers spoken of who have done this but nothing as either borrowed from them or as laid out by himself is brought in Many passages of the Fathers are misapplyed Many Cavils Criminations and Calumnies are objected Many strong words as Logomachies Vertigo's and Needle-headed Nicities with Prophecies from Poets are used a great part of Erasmus Chilias spent in Proverbs Much paper blotted but what concluded I shall not here interpose my judgment as Mr. Menzeis publishes his victory as Trumpet in the Triumph himself leaving to each one to read and judge of the papers adding only of him what was said of a Prolix and tedious Orator who on little matter spent much time in many flourishes of words and frequent Digressions Nullum vidi qui magis operosè nihil diceret Multa sed non multum Magni passus sed extra viam Seneca That is I have seen none take greater pains to say nothing he sayes many things but not much he walks at a great pace but out of the way For me as I mind not here actum agere so neither do I presume to add any thing to what Mr. Dempster has said in his way of Disputing which I acknowledge both the shortest and best to make Mr. Menzeis prove his Grounds but he ever declining this and urging we should shew in them any weakness or defect this I here undertake for Mr. Menzeis further conviction and happily some Protestants conversion by the goodness and mercy of God My design being to prove positively the falshood and nullity as well of his great Principle of no Infallible visible Judg as of both his Grounds and that very succinctly in a few Sections without Digressing in the least or medling with what hath been said SECT III. Wherein Mr. Menzeis great Principle That there is no Infallible visible Judge of Controversie in the true Church is Positively refuted as the main Ground of all Divisions Schisms and Heresies and contrary to the Scriptures Fathers and Reason AS all Rebellion in Kingdoms and Common-wealths has its rise from contempt of the lawful Authority of Princes and Magistrates upon the specious pretence of abuse of Power against the Laws of the Kingdom and Liberties of the Subjects So all Heresies in the Church begin with appeals from the Pastors of the Church the only Judges establisht by Christ to his Written Word which is to all Christians as their Law Book LEX REX cry out Rebels with their Calipha Buchanan LEX JUDEX or nolo verba quae non sunt scripta Answers the Heretick with an Arian in the Councel of Nice They will believe what they read and not what they hear though the Apostle teach us that Faith comes of hearing and the reason is because with Mr. Menzeis they acknowledge none speaking in matters of Faith and Religion Infallible No Infallible Visible Judge This is indeed that great Principle Protestants did broach to themselves in the beginning of Reformation and at their very first leaping out from the Church they would admit of no Infallible visible Judge stand to no Sentence or Decree of Church Councils Fathers Now this Principle being supposed by them to be solid and an unquestionable truth nothing can follow thereon but what is true Ex vero nil nisi verum and consequently any private Protestant reading Scripture with a sincere intention may yea ought to adhere to what he thinks to be in Scripture should all the Protestant Church with all her Assemblies Synods Preachers be of a contrary mind Upon this Luther and Calvin leave the Catholick Roman Church and all visible Congregations in the Christian World at that time because sayes Chamiers Ep. 49. though Mr. Menzeis deny it was so Then Apostacy averted the whole body from Christ. They made all the Kings and people drunk from the first to the last says Calvin Inst l. 4. c. 18. and Whitaker Cont. 4. q. 5. c. 3. No Religion but the Papistical had place in the Church Duditius apud Bezam Ep. 1. sayes more if that be true which the Fathers have professed with mutual consent it is altogether on the Papists side Upon this same Principle innumerable other Sects and Sectaries have left again Protestants and the Protestant Church upon this and this only Principle every particular man reading Scripture and taking it as he thinks both words and sense clear is made his own Judge and so as many heads almost as many sentences and diverse Opinions in Religion some thinking Scripture clear for this some for that Sect some admitting or rejecting whole Books of Scripture at their pleasure Yea some and that too too many seeing most clear Scripture tossed and wrested by contrary Sects suspend their Judgment renounce their Faith and quit all Religion not knowing with what party to side Others in fine who think themselves deeper wits as they are more speculative and searching brains having run through all can be said to ascertain any point of Faith save only the Divine Oracle in the Church have turned Scepticks in Religion grounding themselves on meer probability Which Seed of Infidelity sayes the Author of a Treatise Intituled Faith vindicated from possibility of Falshood Sowen when the Infallible Authority of the Church as the rule of Faith was renounced dared first appear publickly above ground in the Writings of Mr. Chillingworth and the L. Falkland dressed up in a plausible Rhetorick and set out under a yet more pleasant Title to Protestants as being against Popery was most graciously received by many Yea when it appeared in Mr. Tilletson his Eloquent and Famous Sermon did begin to get credit as an Evangelical truth and all this upon the foresaid great principle Upon it the holy work of Reformation by private men opposing the Law and Gospel to the judicial Sentence and Decrees of the whole Catholick Church Upon it the glorious work of the Covenant by some factious Zelots against Prince and Pastors in the Protestant Church Upon it Preachers and Pulpits clash at randome Sects and Sectaries multiply the Christian world is put in confusion with endless Jars and Debates in Religion And all this because there is no Infallible Judge of Controversie to give Sentence in favour of any one party silencing all others In a word for that according to Protestants God hath given us a Law without a Judg however inconsistent this may seem with Order Providence and wisdom This one Principle I say once more with the great St. Augustine Serm. 14. de verbis Ap. Ruines the very Grounds of Religion In aliis quaestionibus non diligenter digestis non plenâ Ecclesiae Authoritate firmatis ferendus est disputator errans ibi ferendus error non tamen progredi debet ut fundamentum ipsum Ecclesiae quatere moliatur According to the same St. Augustine ib. whosoever run their heads were they never so great with Mr. Menzeis against this Inexpugnable wall of the Church Authority are crusht Hoc habet Authoritas matris Eccelsiae
Ep. 37.64 A Sentence inspired by the Holy Ghost S. Epiphanius haeres 77. A Decision not to be questioned S. Athanasius Ep. ad Episc Afric The Word of God which endureth for ever S. Basil Ep. 10. The Touch-stone to discern Hereticks Vincensius Lyrinensis in his Book against Heresies c. 4. says all who will not be accounted Hereticks must conform themselves to the Decrees of Oecumenical or General Councils S. Augustine Ep. 162. Calls them the last Sentence can be expected in matters of Faith S. Gregory the great l. 1. Ep. 24. Reverences the first four General Councils as the four Evangills And Constantine the great the first Christian Emperour Ep. ad eccle Alex. as witness Sozomenus l. 1. c. 24. and Socrates l. 1. c. 6. holds the Decrees of the Council of Nice against Arius a Divine Sentence flowing from the mouths of so many and great Bishops inspired by the Holy Ghost Wherefore S. Augustine de bapt contra donat l. 1. c. 7. concludes That no doubt ought to be made of what is by full Decree establisht in a Council Neither is Mr. Menzeis Objection from him of any force for when he speaks l. 2. de bapt c. 3. of mending Councils by Councils upon further experience his words are Cum aliquo rerum experimento aperitur quod clausum est cognoscitur quod latebat clearly shewing he means not any Decision of Faith can be mended which no experience can learn us but Divine Revelation alone can teach Thus to shun prolixity in Citations do not all the Fathers who were ever present at Councils Subscribe their Canons and Decrees annexing Anathemas and Excommunications against all who oppose them in the least I hear Mr. Menzeis Reply to all this first but where is that Infallible Church the Scriptures and Fathers speak of Answer That is not here the question but that there is one which is contradictory to his great Principle That there is no Infallible visible Judge Only I add the Protestant Church cannot be this they speak of she not being Infallible as themselves confess and consequently cannot be the Church and House of God which the Apostle calls the Ground and Pillar of Truth Secondly How many Questions may be moved touching the lawfulness of Councils now the Fathers speak not of the Council of Trent but only of lawful ones Answer a contentious spirit will question any thing but St. Augustine above cited tells you of what is by full Decree establisht in a Council no doubt or question ought to be made Whatever Protestants object against the Council of Trent did not the Arians against the Nicene Council Nolo verba quae non sunt Scripta that is I will believe nothing but the written Word which is but the eccho repeating now what was at first cryed out then Thirdly God has obliged no man to hear Church or Council against his express and clear Word Answer This is true but is not the Church the most faithful Depositary of Gods Word best Judge of what is clear and best Interpreter of what is Obscure For no Scripture says St. Peter Is of private Interpretation and doth not Christ in his written Word most clearly and expresly command us to hear his Church if we will not be holden as Publicans and Heathens Fourthly No Council can be general where all are not called and sit with a decisive voice Answer Should even Hereticks be called to and have in Councils their decisive voices What agreement could this make in Points controverted why not Socinians Anabaptists Quakers as well as Protestants should Presbyterians sit with Bishops Prelaticks in Protestant Assemblies what a pitiful shift is this If so let the Covenant be renewed Bishops again thrust out and Mr. Menzeis set high for yielding obedience to them only through compulsion and fear of loosing his place Fifthly The Church her self when fallen in errour cannot be Judge being Criminal and Impeached of most hainous crimes she cannot be both Party and Judge Answer This Objection is all Utopian and Chymerical if we hear the Scripture and Fathers assuring us she cannot err But giving and not granting she did who then her Judge When Subjects rise against their Soveraign Citizens against their Magistrates Children against their Parents leave they to be their Judges because arraigned by them Even Hereticks must submit to the Sentence and Censures of the Church when they fall at variance with her though they turn Unnatural she cannot become a Stepmother to them Sixthly Infallibility in judging is proper to God Answer yes none but God has it Essentially and by Nature but none I hope will deny he may make the Pastors of his Church as well Infallible in teaching points of Faith as his Prophets and Evangelists in penning the Scripture Books or at least as any Protestant in reading and understanding them Seventhly The Church of Rome is but a particular Church Answer we take it not so when we say the Catholick Roman Church but for all Churches in Communion with the Roman as all Countries under the Roman Emperour are called the Roman Empire and all people under the Law of Moses the Jewish Church though that name taken strictly belonged to the Tribe of Juda because the chief City appertained to that Tribe where the High Bishop resided So the Universal Church is called the Roman Catholick Church by reason of St. Peter and his Successors her high Bishops residing there whence Rome is the Centre of Ecclesiastical Communion infusing unity in the whole dispersed body as the Form of Universality or Catholickship Wherefore St. Cyprian Ep. ad Cornel. Calls her Ecclesiam principalem unde unitas Sacerdotalis exorta est That is the Principal and chief Church the Source and Centre of Unity amongst the Priests of all other Churches and consequently the people Eighthly But whereon Grounded this Infallible Authority of the Church Answer On the clear places of Scripture and Fathers above cited It is the Ground and Pillar of truth therefore cannot err It hath the promise of Gods Spirit to lead it into all truth therefore cannot err It is said to be built on the Rock against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail therefore cannot err Christ hath placed in it Apostles Doctors Pastors and Bishops to the consummation and perfection of the whole body that we be not carried away with every blast of new Doctrines therefore it cannot err It is the House the Spouse the Mystick body of Christ his Lot Kingdom and Inheritance in this world therefore cannot err On the Authority of the Church the Fathers have received the Originals Translations and Sense of Scripture Books yea some chief Points of Faith not mentioned in Scripture as persons in the Trinity Sacraments in the Church keeping holy the Sunday c. therefore cannot err Christ has commanded and that under pain of Damnation to hear the Church in matters of Faith and Religion therefore it cannot err All are obliged to live in
in the Kingdom then Out-laws and Rebels pretending to adhere immediately to them as they themselves read Think them clear or expound SECT V. Scripture however clear in Fundamentals clearly mistaken by Protestants and clearly making against them LEt us come at last to the Fundamental Points of the Protestant Religion which Mr. Menzeis holds out to be clear in Scripture Whereupon his Adversary demands what things he esteems Fundamental He Answers to ask a Catalogue of Fundamentals is to ask how to make a Coat to the Moon in all her changes And this his quick Reply he borrows from a learned Divine as he calls him Mr. Chillingworth is the man as I conceive for he has the same words a meer Sceptick in Religion and who takes away all certainty in Faith and to say true the Protestant Religion is so Obnoxious to Reformations Alterations Innovations that it is most fitly compared by him to the Moon in all her changes Yea Protestants are of so different Opinions even in what they call Fundamentals that scarce two set down the same Perkins in Cath. Reform p. 407. and in his Exposition of the Creed p. 503. will have all Fundamentals included in the Apostles Creed Duplessis in his Treatise of the Church C. 5. in the Decalogue Du Moulin after Melancton in C. 4. Matt. the Creed and Decalogue Luther Tom. 7. in Enchir. f. 118. in the Creed Decalogue and Lords Prayer Whitaker Contr. 1. q. 4. p. 340. in the Creed Lords Prayer and Sacraments Sadeel Praef. Resp ad Turr. to believe Christ crucified and the Pope to be Antichrist Chillingworth in his Treatise Intituled the Religion of Protestants a safe way to Salvation p. 408. n. 35. says plainly Protestants do not agree touching what Points are Fundamental and page 166 we know not precisely just how much is Funtamental Again page 23. he that will go about to distinguish what was written because it was profitable from what was written because necessary shall find an intricate business of it and almost impossible that he should be certain he hath done it when he hath done it Wherefore he says in the same page n. 27. that Protestants give not a Catalogue of Fundamentals it is not from Tergiversation but from Wisdom and Necessity and when they had done it it had been to no purpose there being as matters now stand as great necessity of believing those Truths of Scripture which are not Fundamental as those that are And yet other Protestants with M. Menzeis harp upon nothing more then the Distinction of Fundamentals from not Fundamentals as if those were necessarily believed these not I know in other places of the same Treatise this Author contradicts himself which shews not only Protestants disagree in Fundamentals one from another but even the same man from himself so well grounded they are in these their Fundamentals and Grounds wherein notwithstanding their monstrous Divisions they vainly bragg to agree But how can it be discerned whether all Protestants or a few agree in Fundamentals unless it be precisely known what and how many Fundamentals there be Potter in fine extends the number of Fundamentals beyond all his Brethren have said his words are page 24. it is Fundamental to a Christians Faith and necessary for his salvation that he believe all revealed Truths of God whereof he may be convinced they are of God And doth not this diversity of Opinions equal the changes of the Moon Or is not all this a most clear and manifest Demonstration however Scripture be clear in Fundamentals which now I do not dispute at least it is not so even to the Learnedst and most sharp sighted Protestants who so little agree in that Point that scarce two are of the same Judgment and Mind If others did thus mistake what is perspicuous in Scripture Mr. Menzeis would presently tell us no wonder they do so by reason of their evil disposed intellect But that Protestants and these not of the Vulgar sort but even the Pillars of their Religion and Defenders of their Faith by Volumes in Print should not see what in Scripture is most clear but so vary and divide in such a multiplicity of Opinions and yet maintain Scripture in these same things wehrein they so vary is clear what a wonderful thing is this Or who I pray you can trust men both at once saying Scripture is clear in Fundamentals and yet setting down the same Fundamentals diversly By this plainly confessing either their own blindness and so that they are not good Guides nor to be believed when they speak of what in Scripture is clear or else that their Doctrine in this is false What M. Menzeis holds Fundamental so great a secret it is that neither will he tell us himself nor can any other know it he having so often changed House and built upon diverse Grounds Yet that he should not seem to say nothing a mark he gives us to know what in Scripture is Fundamental to wit if we find it commanded to be believed by all or a Character of necessity to be put upon it Whereupon I reflect first M. Menzeis Doctrine is here very Incoherent for both he teaches it is commanded in Scripture all men believe Fundamentals as things absolutely necessary to salvation and nevertheless the Catalogue of these same things he will have impossible as a Coat to the Moon Would not this argue he is ignorant himself of what all should know and believe Otherwise surely he should never have judged this Catalogue impossible it being easie to a man to call to memory what he knows yea we know no more then we can call to memory says the Roman Orator Tantum scimus quantum memoriâ tenemus Secondly I reflect that rejecting the Infallible Authority of the Church teaching every particular person what is Fundamental and what we must necessarily know and explicitely believe to attain salvation pretending all this is clear and may be found by the marks he has given in Scripture he remaines obliged to a very hard task 1. To prove in General from evident and clear Scripture that all things necessary to be believed are clear and evident in Scripture Let him answer then First where he reads this and to the Fathers teaching the contrary as we shall see below 2. To prove every Fundamental Point in particular immediately and clearly from Scripture And this so that the words cannot be taken obviously and literally in any other sense For if they can be so taken then I have no Infallible Evidence but they should be so taken without some Infallible Guide telling me they should not be so taken in the place alledged As for example these words This is my Body undoubtedly may at least signifie and that most Obviously and Litterally that Christs Body is really in the Sacrament as when I say this is a piece of Gold this a piece of Silver these words litterally signifie real Gold and Silver Wherefore if I will take the words
who in his Book against the Sacramentarians says plainly They believe in God the Father Son and Holy Ghost in vain all these things avail them nothing for as much as they deny this Article of the Real Presence and attach him of falshood who said of the Sacrament This is my Body And he had reason for St. Thomas 2.2 q. 5. a 3. with other Divines teach he has no Spiritual Faith who believeth not every thing little or great Fundamental or not Proposed to him by the same Authority Whereupon they infer that no Sectary upon his own choice adhering to this or that believeth any thing So Tertullian l. de praesc speaking against Valentine says some things of the Law and Prophets he approveth some things not that is difalloweth all whil'st he disproveth some 3. From all this appeareth how idlely this distinction of fundamntals not fundamentals in the Protestans sense was brought in by them it serving to no other purpose then to palliate their divisions at present deceive Ignorants in the pretended succession they claim to in old condemn'd Hereticks whose Errors they will have to be no Fundamentals As M. Menzeis taking Hierome of Prague John Huss Wickcliff the Waldenses and Grecians for true Protestants before Luther to make up an imaginary Succession in the Protestant Church which to do with any apparent shew of Truth 1. He should prove those Sects to have been the Catholick Church spread through the whole world and owned as such by the Fathers of those times 2. Justifie their Doctrine which we find partly in their own Writings partly in the most Authentick Records of the Ages wherein they lived to have been in many things most false erroneous and unchristian 3. Their succession from the Apostles times finding their Bishops and Pastors in the Registers of the Church History or Fathers Neither will he make this good by the Authority of Friar Reiner who speaking of the Waldenses whom he names Lionists says at most even as Illiricus quotes his words some affirm they have been from the time of Pope Sylvester others from the dayes of the Apostles M. Menzeis to make the Argument stronger will have Friar Reiner to say absolutely they were from the time of the Apostles with his ordinary ingenuity but what I pray you concludes he from this Those who said so being Lionists themselves as witnesseth Piliâ—hdorphius So a little before Waldo there arose Hereticks who falsly bragged of the same even as after them Protestants do now But if you or they either sir were in all ages from the Apostles tell us the Authours in every age who marked the succession of your Pastors where lived your people c. then refute the great number of learned Writers who lived when such Sects did start up in a suddain as a Mushrome in a night marking their Rise and noting their Errours which certainly they had never done if such Doctrine had been professed before as that of the true and visible Church But to speak a word in particular of every one of those Sects with what ignorance and falshood M. Menzeis calls them true Protestants you shall presently see And first in John Huss to whose name I am sure he has a more just claim then to his Religion if we trust all the most Authentick Records of Huss his Doctrine I cite not for this the Juridick Acts of the Council at Constance because Popish not Father Gordon of Huntley no less eminent for his Learning then Birth because a Jesuit though living in Prague in Boheme where Hussits most abound and having made most diligent enquiry of their Tenents he found as he witnesseth Cont. 3. de Euch. c. 17. they did hold Invocation of Saints Prayer for the dead the Fastings and Ceremonies of the Catholick Church with free will confession of Sins seven Sacraments c. But I hope he will trust Fox a most firy Protestant speaking thus upon the 2. Ch. of the Revelation What did Huss at any time teach or defend in the Council wherein he did not seem superstitiously to consent with the Papists what did the Popish Faith decree concerning Transubstantiation which he likewise with the Papists did not confirm who celebrated Mass more Religiously then he or more Religiously observed the Vows of Priestly Chastity Concerning Free Will Predestination informed Faith that is without Charity the cause of Justification and merit of good Works what other thing did he hold then is taught at Rome All this he and more in his Monuments that he did acknowledge seven Sacraments and the Popes Supremacy p. 216. and 227. And if he should as yet disown Fox as a private Writer yet must he trust Luther as a man extraordinarily sent by God to Reform the Church and the 14. Apostle The Papists burned Huss says he Colloq Germ. C. de Antich when as yet he departed not a fingers breadth from the Papacy for he taught the same which the Papists do only he found fault with their Vices against the Pope he did nothing To the same purpose Luther has much more Tom. 2. in Assert art 30. and Tom. 3. in Ps 2. But in fine should not Huss himself be trusted better then any his works are extant and perusing them you shall find he did hold seven Sacraments upon the fifth of S. James Transubstantiation in his Book of the Lords Supper Ch. 2. and 3. the Sacrifice of the Mass in his Sermon of Funerals Purgatory and Prayers for the Dead in the same place confession of sins to a Priest in his Treatise of pennance invocation of Saints in his Epistles 22.30.35 Veneration of Relicks upon Ps 115. yea in his question of believing the Popes Supremacie as to his office dignity and power though with this Caveat common to him with Wicliff that ecclesiastical dignity as well as Civil was grounded on Inherent Justice and so lost by Mortal Sin which neither Catholicks nor Protestants do teach Nevertheless M. Menzeis is not ashamed to own Huss for a Protestant so constant is he in professing his Fundamentals which he will have to be in Scripture so clear I insist not so much on the rest yet to say a little of every one Of Hierome of Prague Fox pag. 585. relateth whatever was his Opinion in other things yet stood he constantly in defence of the real Presence and Transubstantiation saying he did give more credit to S. Augustine and other Doctors of the Church who affirmed the same then to any that denyed it Wikcliff again M. Menzeis is not ashamed to call a Protestant who in his own Writings so expresly holds against them 1. Worship of Images in his 9. Ch. of the Eucharist Images says he we adore purely as signs but God we must adore with all our power It is therefore granted that Relicks Images and the Sacraments be with prudence to be adored He did also hold Invocation of Saints in his Sermon of the Assumption into Heaven of our blessed Lady
2 Thes 2. says it is evident that the Apostles did not deliver all things by Writing but many things without and those be as worthy of credit as others Which he could not have said if Fundamentals were only the infallible Truths and they clearly revealed in Scripture S. Epiphanius Heres 61. we must use Traditions for the Scriptures have not all things yet no necessity of using Traditions if all Fundamentals were in Scripture they only being necessary according to Protestants S. Augustine l. 5. de Bapt. Contr. Donat Ch. 23. the custome of the Church in baptizing Infants is neither to be contemned or any wise thought superfluous yet not to be believed if it were not an Apostolical Tradition If this was not in his Judgment a Fundamental hear himself again l. 3. de Orig. Anim. C 9. if thou will be a Catholick believe not teach not say not that Infants prevented by death before they are baptized can come to the pardon of their Original sin Is it not a Fundamental to believe Scripture to be the Word of God which S. Augustine takes on Tradition What if a man should receive the New Testament as sufficiently containing Fundamentals and reject the Old with the Manichees admit of some of the Evangels but not others with the Ebionits What if one should deny the word Person the name and definition of a Sacrament the keeping of Sunday because not clear in Scripture and consequently no Fundamentals according to M. Menzeis Rule Marcion and with him the Anabaptists teach Baptism should be conferred more then once The Donatists that Baptisme of Hereticks at least should be reiterated Sabellius one only Person in the Godhead Nestorius two Persons in Christ and for this are accounted Hereticks yet no clear Scripture is brought condemning their Errours S. Augustine l. de unitate Eccl. says expresly of the Donatists Errour this neither you nor I read in express words 7. How many Scriptures are clear against Protestants in all controverted Tenets So that however it be clear in Fundamentals it clearly speaketh against them See for this the Touchstone of the Reformed Gospel with the Manual of Controversie and after you have pondered the places quoted in them judge whether the Protestant Religion be rightly defined by M. Menzeis The Christian Religion as contained in Scripture and their protestancy only their protesting against Popish Errours Which Definition if good having its Genus proximum differentiam ultimam should distinguish Protestants from all other Sectaries but this it doth not it being common to them with most Hereticks who have ever been all of them professing with you Sir to adhere to the written Word they received and as understood by themselves as the Arians Nestorians Pelagians Photinians c. and all protesting against the Churches Errours and Popes Authority For as the sole Roman Church did ever oppose all Hereticks as the only zealous Defender of the true Faith and Doctrine which S. Paul calls the Depositum entrusted to her So all generally how soon they turn Hereticks Protest prattle Preach chieflly against her turn over all the Writings of Authours who have made mention of Heresies and you shall find that all from the first to the last have opposed themselves to that company of Christians which was in communion with the Pope and Bishop of Rome for the time and that this company hath opposed it self to them all neither did they oppose themselves all to any other company whatsoever Yea this was ever the distinctive mark of Hereticks not to communicate with the Pope and Sea of Rome as may be seen in the Writings of the Fathers St. Irenaeus l. 3. C. 3. S. Hierome Ep. 57. S. Cyprian in his Epistle to Pope Cornelius S. Augustine in Ps Contr. part Don. and generally in all ages and by all so that you protesting with them against the Church and Pope take their very Badg and Livery and shamefully declare by this Charactaristick Mark of your Defection from the ever acknowledged true Church and high Bishop thereof by all the Fathers your Apostacy Heresie and Schism It is very plausible I must confess to poor Ignorants when Preachers make them believe they teach nothing save only the pure Scripture and written Word protesting against all unwritten Traditions as Popish Errours But if any man consider a little with himself your Tenets in particular he shall presently find it is openly against God and his written Word ye protest in all points of Controversie under the false pretence of protesting against Popery and that not so much as one Tenet peculiar to you is contained in Scripture This I evidence in most Articles of Popish Doctrine you protest against where all may see and judge how well your Religion is contained in Scripture Is it not to protest against the goodness of God to say with you he created some for Hell independently of their works and likewise against his Word 1 Tim. 2. where it is said he will have all to be saved and in the 2. Ep. of St. Peter 3. where he is declared not willing any should perish Is it not to protest against his Mercy and express word again to say he died not for all The Apostle S. Paul assuring he did die for all and as that in Adam all died so in Christ all be restored to life 1 Cor. 13. Is it not to protest against his Justice and Word to teach that he punisheth us for what we cannot do as for the want of good Works which Protestants will have not to be in our power Yet the Apostle says Heb. 6.10 God is not unjust that he should forget our work Is it not to protest against the Wisdom and Word of God to say he obliges us to perform things impossible as Protestants call the Commandements where as Saint John in 1 Ep. C. 5. says they are not so much as heavy Is it not to protest against his Veracity and Word to affirm that the Church can teach Errours and stand in need of Reformation Christ having commanded us to hear it in S. Matt. 18. and the Apostle S. Paul 1 Tim. 3. calling it the Pillar and Ground of Truth Is it not to protest against his Providence and Word to assert that he has given us the dead Letter of the Law without an Infallible Visible Judge leaving to every poor Ignorant to Interpret Scripture according to his fancy S. Peter having said no Scripture is of private interpretation and Christ having commanded us to hear his Church Is it not to protest against the Efficacy of Christs Mediation Sufferings Death and also his Word to hold that he hath freed us from the pain but not from the guilt of sin S. Joh. 1. Rev. 5. Saying he washed us from our sins in his own blood And S. Paul 1 Cor. 6. we are Washed justified Sanctified Is it not to protest against his Divine Order to tye our Sanctification to Faith only and his express word in S. James
and speaks thus l. de anima C. 58. Seeing we understand that prison which the Gospel demonstrates to be places below and the last farthing we interpret every small fault there to be punished by the delay of the Resurrection no man will doubt but that the soul doth recompence something in the places below Ibid. we make yearly Oblations says he for the dead Origen hom 6. in Exod. he that is saved is saved by fire so that if a man have something mixed with Lead that the fire doth purge and resolve that all may become pure Gold S. Cyprian l. 4. Ep. 2. It is one thing to be purged a long time for sins by Torment and cleansed by a long fire and another thing to purge all sins by patience and sufferings What fire is more clear then S. Augustine and others be with S. Cyprian and Origen here for a purging fire I know Protestants Expound that place of S. Paul 1 Cor. 3. v. 13 14. of the fire of Tribulation in this life but not so S. Augustine in Ps 37. where citing the words of the Apostle he shall be safe yet so as by fire says and because it is said he shall be safe that fire is contemned yet that fire shall be more grievous then what ever a man can suffer in this life and then entring in a most fervent Prayer continues Purge me O Lord in this life that I need not that mending fire 6. Protestants deny Invocation and honouring of Saints But in the first Age S. Denis eccl Hierarch C. 7. says I constantly affirm with the Divine Scripture that the Prayers of the Saints are very profitable for us in this life when a man is inflamed with a desire to imitate the Saints and distrusting his own weakness he betakes himself to any Saint beseeching him to be his helper and petitioner to God for him he shall obtain by that means very great assistance In the same Age S. Clement l. Apost Constit 5. We command you that the Martyrs be in all honor among you even as James the Bishop and Stephen our fellow Deacon have been amongst us for God has made them blessed and holy men have honoured them In the second Age S. Cornelius Ep. 1. exhorteth to beseech God and our Lord Jesus Christ that his holy Apostles making Intercession for you he would purge you from your sins And Justin Martyr Apol. 2. We worship and adore both God the Father and his Son c. as also the company of his followers and the good Angels and we worship them both by words and deeds and in truth even as we our selves have been taught and instructed In the third Age S. Cyprian l. 4. Ep. 9. The sufferings and days of Martyrs we celebrate with a yearly remembracne And Origen in Lament I will begin to fall down on my knees and pray to all his Saints to succour me who dare not ask God for the exceeding greatness of my sins O Saints of my God with tears I beseech you to fall down before his mercy for me a wretch 7. Protestants deny the use of the sign of the Cross and Images But in the first Age S. Denis l. 2. Eccl. Hierarch c. 2. The sign of the Cross is so much honoured that it is often used both in baptism and other Sacraments In the same Age S. Martial Ep. ad Burdegal Remember the Cross of our Lord keep it in your mind speak often of it have it in the Sign for it is your invincible Armour against Satan Tertullian l. de Coron milit c. 3. In every thing we do we sign our forehead with the sign of the Cross of which practice Tradition is the defender Custome the conserver and Faith the observer And in his time he sayes l. 2. de pudicit The Image of Christ bearing a Lamb was graven on the Chalices used in Churches And how famous is the memory of many more Images in the first three Ages as that of our Saviour sent to Abgarus Prince of Edessa of which see Evagrius l. 4. c. 26. Mataphrastes in the life of Constantine S. John Damascon in his book of Images That which the woman cured of a Flux set up in brass at Caesaraea Philippi as witness Eusebius in his 7. Book Ch. 14. So Zomenus l. 5. c. 20. and Damascene again Ibid. a third made by Nicodemus which being afterward taken by the Jews and in mockery crucified was honored by God with many Miracles as is related by S. Athanasius or some other most antient Author of the Book Intituled of the Passion of our Lords Image Besides these Theodorus Lect. l. 1. Collectan maketh mention of one of our blessed Lady drawn by S Luke Eusebius relateth that he did see many antient Images of Christ placed betwixt S. Peter and S. Paul as much witnesseth S. Augustine l. 1. De cons Evan. c. 10. Damasus in the life of S. Silvester writeth that Constantine in the place where he was Baptized Erected Silver Images of our Saviour and S. John Baptist as also others in the Church of S. John Lateran which the first Christian Emperour had never done nor S. Silvester permitted if the practice of the Church from the Apostles had not been such 8. Protestants deny Free will after the fall of Adam but in the first Age S. Clement l. 3. recognit Asketh how doth God judge every man by his deeds according to truth if he have not in his power to do what is commanded if this be held all things are frustrate in vain shall the study be of following better things In the same Age S. Ignatius Ep. ad Magn. If any man do wickedly he is a man of the Devil not made so by Nature but by his own free will In the second Age S. Justin Martyr in Apol. Unless mankind can both fly foul and undecent things and follow fair and good things of his own free will it is without all cause and blame of theirs howsoever things be done S. Irenaeus l. 4. c. 72. not only in works but even in Faith hath Almighty God reserved liberty of will to Man saying be it to thee according to thy Faith In the third Age S. Cyprian in Deut. l. 3. ad Quirin c. 52. The freedome of believing or not believing is placed in the will In the same Age Origen hom 12. in Num. O Israel what doth thy Lord God require of thee let them be ashamed of these words who deny free will in man how should God require of man unless man had in his power what to offer to God requiring 9. Protestants deny merit of Works But in the first Age S. Ignatius Ep. ad Rom. says Give me leave to become the food of beasts that by that means I might merit and win God In the second Justin Martyr Apol. 2. We think that men who by works have shewed themselves worthy c. shall by their Merits live and Reign with him In the third S. Cyprian l.
ye 〈◊〉 prove that to be infallibly Gods Word which was preached by the Apostles this they did sufficiently themselves Neither that the Doctrine of Authentick Scripture is infallibly true that was also done before there was a Protestant in the world but coming from those Generals which make all the Answers of your best Writers we desire ye shew by some infallible sign that your Bible is Gods pure Word and your Glosses on it conform to the Sense and Letter To reply Scripture doth evidence it self by its innate light to be Gods Word so that all may sufficiently know it by this and all be obliged to believe it is refuted by Christ himself presently telling us his own hearers had not sinned in not receiving it as such if he had given no External Evidence of his infallibility in propounding for as I have remarked above Scripture hath no greater Efficacy Evidence or Light in our Books then in our blessed Saviours own mouth Neither will the Majesty of the Stile or the purity of the Doctrine do it both these being as great in the the Books of Wisdome and Ecclesiasticus which Protestants reject as in the Ecclesiastes and Canticles which they receive Besides that the first of these two is imaginary as to the Letter there being less Majesty in the Letter of Scripture then in the Philosophers and Orators Writings as is conâ—essed by Paul And the second is in question chiefly in Protestant Bibles which do not agree with any Original or Copy that before Luther can be found if we trust their own Authours whom I have quoted Lastly If all Councils all the Fathers all the Pastors of the Church be fallible then let Protestants bring nothing but Scripture against us for we will receive nothing but upon infallible Authority and all their Volumes of Controversie shall not come to one line Yea further could they bring Scripture for what they teach as they will never be able to do yet without an infallible Propounder and Judg well might we dispute but conclude nothing wrangle but agree in nothing to the Worlds end For as sole Scripture without an infallible Church propounding and Explaining it so a naked Church without infallible Marks and a Doctrine without infallible Motives prove nothing Secondly I say the true Church is this infallible propounder on whose Authority we must rely For proof of this It is to be observed that in holy Scripture there be three Foundations or Grounds of Faith mentioned by the Apostle S. Paul The 1. Is our blessed Saviour Christ 1 Cor. 3.11 Another Foundation no man can lay then that is laid which is Jesus Christ The 2. Is the Apostles and Prophets Ephes 2.29 Built upon the Foundation of Apostles and Prophets The 3. The Church 1 Tim. 3. The house of God which is the Church of the living God the Pillar and Ground of Truth From which clear places of Scripture I remark 1. The Foundation of Faith is ever a Living Visible and Speaking Ground to wit Christ the Apostles Prophets and Church the dead Letter of Scripture being no where called this Ground 2. That these three Grounds of Faith both in the Old and New Law properly speaking make but one according to the same Apostle for another Foundation no man can lay sayes he beside Christ JESUS So that the Prophets Apostles and Church must not be thought different Foundations from Christ all their Vertue in upholding Faith and Veracity in propounding Faith Whence they are called the Foundation and Ground of it coming from the particular assistance of his Spirit Strengthening Inspiring and Directing them Hence also is their infallibility for the Foundation of Christ stands sure says the Apostle 2 Tim. 2.19 And consequently is altogether infallible 3. That the Church here called a Ground which supporteth our Faith is not to be said the only diffusive body of all true Believers but more the Representative Church in her chief Pastors as the Prophets and Apostles in old Wherefore some few Catholick Authors so often objected as holding the Canons and Decrees of Councils only infallible when they are generally received by the whole Church in my opinion are highly mistaken and surely to be understood if any in Express terms speaks so of Councils not wholly Oecumenical or not Lawfully convocated and knownly approved by the Pope or whereof some rational doubt may be made in things essentially required in which cases I grant the general belief of the Church could best warrant the infallibility of their Decrees Otherwise a few particular persons might cope with General Councels as Luther and his Adherents at first Vendicating to himself the Negative voice as if he had been high Bishop in the whole Church which were to take away all possible means of preserving Unity in Faith yea to foment all Schisms and Divisions every one pretending the whole Church holds no such Doctrine whil'st he who is a Member dissents So that such Doctors if they should allow no obligation in receiving the Decrees of the Representative Church to the which they do and must submit even this their Sentence could neither be thought Catholicks or rational men But however some few speak or think God did promise us an infallible Church Isa 2. V. 2 3. Wherein he should teach us his ways and judge amongst the Nations himself not personally for he never went out of Jewry but by her Pastors He has establish'd this infallible Church in St. Matth. 16. V. 19. Upon the Rock Christ hath commanded us to hear her in St. Matth. 18. V. 17. And the persons we should hear in this Church as well as the end wherefore we would hear them and rest upon their Authority is clearly set down in these words 4. Ephes 11. He gave some Apostles some Prophets some Evangelists some Pastors and Teachers for perfecting of the Saints for the work of the Ministry till we all come in the Union of Faith that we henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of Doctrine c. From all which places of Scripture it is Demonstratively manifest that as the true Church is infallible and we bound to hear her yea and to rely upon her Authority as the Pillar and Ground of our Faith so is it most evidently clear that as she speaketh only to us infallibly by the voice of her Pastors and teachers united it is them we should hear seeing God in her not personally as I have said but by them both Judgeth and Teacheth as the infallible Propounders of his Divine Truths with the Prophets and Apostles in old and the infallible Judges of our Controversies and Debates 2. The same is proven from the unanimous consent of the Fathers quoted at length in my third Section for the infallibility both of the Church and Councils And may be confirmed even by the confession of many Rational and Moderate Protestants who receive the Scripture and consequently all and every Point contained in it
his Prince and King I instance only that base and perfidious bewraying of Gods Word belying of the known truth and betraying of his Countrey and King in that most unchristian Sermon upon these words How long wilt thou mourn for Saul whom I have rejected Applying them to our most Gracious Soveraign which I should have been ashamed to relate if this notorious Impostor and most absurd abuser of Gods Word had not first in the Preface of a Sermon in Print and now again so often in this his Book most deceitfully and maliciously cryed out Papists could be no good Subjects as if their Tenets did tend to Rebellion whil'st all Loyal Protestants in the three Kingdoms both love and respect our Loyalty how ever they hate our Profession and look upon him with all his Covenanting Fry as a most fiery Incendiary of Rebellion Now Sir if such a man whom you most cry up for his Eloquence as if like another Samson his strength consisted in his hair be a Person fitted to give the Grounds of Religion defend the Protestant Faith or convert any one to his Belief for that with a Pharisaical countenance a Puritanical tone and a strong voice colouring some slight Learning and reading of Pamphlets with plagiary Phrases and Passages to stuff up a Book in Print and turn the Glass twice in his Sermons let any be judge As that Philosopher of old hearing himself praised by the rabble who commonly approve nothing but such stuff as is in themselves did presently make an examen of his actions I hope Protestants seeing their Religion Defended by such a Writer will more diligently enquire of its weakness which they can never better see then in his Papers where having undertaken to give the Grounds of the Protestant Religion the only Subject of this Dispute either by Word or Writ in them all has not as his Adversary well re-marks so much as ten lines to settle clear or defend them in the least but scraping together objections against Catholicks so often answered by them borrows some passages to no purpose at present and heaps up undervaluing words with such injurious scoldings railings and imprecations against an Old Grave Learned and Modest Man that after he hath called him an impudent Liar a Knave Rogue Sycophant Fool a dull and Lethargick-head a Neat-herd in Ignorance a Devil in Malice and what not He imprecates in fine out of his corrupt Bible changing the word Imperet with imâ—reâ—et the same curse Saint Michael did in their conflict to the Devil such is the Pride Passion and poison of his heart so contrary to the Spirit of God After this what may we expect of such a person if we hear the Wise mans saying In malevolam animam non introibit sapientia True Wisdom never enters into a wicked and malicious soul yet Sir to satisfie your loving and friendly desire I intend to examine more at length what Wit and Learning he shews and first in his two long Epistles Dedicatory and to the Reader which could receive no Answer from Mr. Dempster as appearing but a twelvemonth after his death After this God willing I wil positively refute which he so urges may be done First his great Principle of No Infallible visible Judge of Controversie and then both his Ruinous Grounds SECT I. Some brief Reflections on the Title of Mr. Menzei's Book and his two long Epistles Dedicatory and to the Reader HIs Title being in Latine Papismus Lucifugus according to that saying a strong Thief shall have a strange name must needs be explained and surely understood of that New Gospel Light in the Covenant for in it Mr. Menzeis was a bright Star of the first Magnitude or Fiery Comet himself of which Light a Prelatick Poet in answer to a Satyre upon the Consecration of a Bishop Writes thus Your Phoebus from the West did rise A light that did put out mens eyes Welcome Confusion This Light indeed Popery shuns as all other New Lights against old received Christian Verities but not that either of Scripture or Antiquity the onely true Light of the Christian World as flowing from Christ the Sâ—n of Justice and carried by so many holy Popes Bishops and Priests in Communion with them even unto the most remote corners of the Earth as the conversion of all Kings and Countries to the Christian Religion do testifie which Light Mr. Dempster no where declines but constantly holds out to make nothing for clearing the Grounds of the Protestant Religion except it be in shewing them both ruinous and false so that Mr. Menzeis here Offendit in Luce in limine that is stumbles both in the light and in the specious Title of his Book whereof the very first line is not to the purpose The Question being only of the Grounds of the Protestant Religion and not of Popery at all He begins with a great show of humility who am I the meanest of the thousands of Israel Answer Est qui se nequiter humiliat interiora ejus plena dolo Eccles 19. But let his late Bishop in the Church Principal in the Colledge and fellow Brethren in the Ministery bear witness of this when they have opposed him in the least Yea his own Jactancy through all his Papers and Book with his base revilings in every page and under-valuing of his Adversary It is those his humble thoughts of his own abilities makes him so boldly assert there was consultation used in the present Dispute Surprizal intended and a choice Champion pitched upon to Encounter with him as a Hector But the known truth is to all them who had a hand in the undertaking as they did witness in his presence at the Meeting that they had only yielded to his Importunity in desiring a Meeting and that they had taken him only who was next at hand for the time a man most able indeed for a civil Conference but most unable for a Clamorous Dispute as being of a very weak Constitution and of a totally confiscated health But all this Conference must be set out by him in a disguised Dress Mr. Dempster proclaimed an Ignorant Catholicks charged with Calumnies the better to Paint out his Victory and Triumph As in like case another Conference as he quotes by Dr. Prideaux and Dr. Featly of late whom he might have spared to name being as good at Calumniating Inventions as either of them and no doubt but he will be cited hereafter as they now who nevertheless most deceitfully relates both the occasion of the Conference and what passed in it The clamours of women he speaks of if any for it was a most modest person did speak was onely to suppress his clamours heard even at the Cross and witness to his face that he had passed from his engagement to them which was to give and defend the Grounds of the Protestant Religion as he had engaged under his hand and this his missive was the Paper Mr. Dempster kept open at the Meeting which