the Popish and Prelatical Synods they might have forborn all this obloquy In the mean time they know we not only differ from them concerning the subject invested with Ecclesiasticall Authority but in many other weighty circumstances as to the manner of Administration to be cleared hereafter Though yet all Governments do agree in some common principles and rules among which this Submission for which we plead is one This will evidently appear to go no further if we will but compare that Act of the Assembly 1648. above repeated with this very Canon of the Prelats which they bring in to prove our Opinion Prelatical pag. 111. for the Assembly judgeth the common principle of Submission to be a sound Maxime of Government in a true Church though they condemned the power of Prelats and their sentencing men for not corrupting of Worship and Government and therefore do expresse the substance of that Canon in their Act as fit to be observed in Presbyterial Government Yea and without mentioning that they must be lawfull Sentences whereof these Witnesses make so much noise that it is to be understood which yet is expressed in that Canon And as to that of Duvalius which we believe is a Maxime of their Canon-law as the Schoolmen do generally dispute that Head of Excommunication and other Censures out of the Canon-law Albeit we leave his consequences to himself hoping to make some other thing appear out of our opinion and albeit we disclaim his Pope and Church too whether alleaged to act as Christs Instrument or not as no Church-ruler or Judicatory invested with power from Christ and consequently not to be submitted unto Yet we know some of these Witnesses are not so ignorant as to reject all their Maxims of Government being exercised by a true and orthodox Church Otherwise they may as well reject the Baptism of Infants all Deposition of Ministers Excommunication of Members and innumerable other things as matters purely Popish and Antichristian because forsooth they are observed in the Romish Church We know that methods observed in Appeals Processes and the like Ecclesiasticall Procedures in Assemblies are not rejected as tenets purely Popish because recorded in their Canon-law and practised in their Courts they being in themselves agreeable to sound reason and the light of nature As this Maxim also is of Submission even to some unjust Sentence when it is pronounced in a rightly constituted Church sound and orthodox in Doctrine Worship and Government and only mistaking in this or the like particular case in applying Rules to persons and cases And albeit Protestant Divines do dispute against that particular Hypothesis that the Pope's Sentence is to be obeyed because the Pope hath in their judgement and that according to truth no power and would have them cast out of all Church-society and submitting thereunto because they forsake him and his errours and idolatries Yet they never dispute that Question in Thesi that in a true Reformed Church as is above described Submission is not due Having premitted these Considerations and being to fall about a more particular discussion of the Question We cannot but in the entry complain That upon the Overture propounded in the Conference about this matter they have not only all along given this sense of the Controversie that it is an arbitrary absolute and an unlimited Submission to the will and lusts of men which we crave and do aver pag. 41. that in the Conference we did upon the matter require an absolute and unlimited Submission But in their very dispute they give so lax a state of the Question and do so ramble through all the places of Invention to heap-up Arguments against our Assertion which yet may be reduced to a very few as might make the world believe we were not a Reformed Church but a crew of Papists and Arians opening the door to all abominations by our opinion and to the overturning of all Christs precious Interests Whereas any unbyassed person might perceive and themselves knew by the Conference and from these very Answers given to their Queries upon which they build their Assertion pag. 41. that our desire of Submission was relative to the present state of this Church as it is now through mercy setled in the matter of Doctrine Worship and Government and that such a Submission only was desired as had been established and constantly in practice in this Church till our late Differences And was required of them and mutually offered by us together with an agreement in all matters of difference which might possibly minister occasion of jealousie and diffidence Yea the Declaration it self which here they take to task speaketh of no other Submission than that to which they and we were solemnly engaged at our Admission to the Ministery pag. 5. and so could not be fairly declined by them and again pag. 8 9. there is a Submission required only according to the lawfull known principles wherein we have walked formerly and pag. 10. the Submission constantly observed in practice until the times of our late differences This their way as it hath been very unhandsom and not fair so it necessitateth us to take a new method in clearing this Controversie and not to follow them in their discourses and arguments which almost at every step would put us to a repetition of the state of the Question but to sum-up the state of the Controversie with the difficulties therein in some Articles where we shall as it may come in meet with any thing that hath sinnews in their discourse and reasonings which hath not been spoken to in the foregoing Considerations and tither discover the impertinency therof as to our case or the invalidity thereof to impugn our Assertion And I. As to the fountain and riâ—e of this Submission We do not derive it from nor do we urge it as a due to any Church-officer or Judicatory upon the account of their infallibility and that we must receive their Conclusions as Articles of Faith or binding the Conscience eo ipso because dictated by them This being well considered putteth a vast difference betwixt us and the Popish principles and way wherewith they so often brand us and may tell them they might well have spared their pains in many of these things premitted to their Arguments pag. 95 96 97. Seing we acknowledge all men to be fallible and liars to have no priviledge or authority to do wrong and that their Sentences are regulae regulatae and do not oblige the conscience save in so far as they are conform to the Word And upon the same account we do heartily subscribe also to what they cite out of the Jus Divinum written by the Ministers of London and Mr. Gillespies Assertion pag. 116 117 118. and out of the CXI Propositions pag. 56 57. Though yet we must tell them that these passages relate only to the matter of active obedience as is clear from the very words of Mr. Gillespie in his Assertion citing the
that except where they are pleased to give charity and that is where themselves bear sway we have no Church either Judicatories or Congregations wherein order is to be observed but an heap of rubbish wherein there may be good stones but no structure so that they must take odd wayes of neglecting both Presbyteries and Congregations in planting of Churches Impartiall observers will discern what good service this is to the opposites of our Church and Government and what a dash is hereby given to all the Reformed Churches among which this was accounted none of the worst 2. As to what they say of the constitution of the Assembly at St. Andrews and Dundee That businesse as is said hath been already cleared in the Observations and Representation and that these who differed in judgement about the Publick Resolutions were neither cited to the Assembly as here they alleage but such only as persisted to preach against these Resolutions after conference were referred to it as was the custome in like cases Nor were they excluded from being elected seing some of them were chosen by Presbyteries where the plurality did differ in judgement from them and they did both sit and act in the Assembly till they were pleased to decline it and go away 3. Whereas they lay the weight of this charge of the corruption of the Church upon the Publick Resolutions and long ago in their Nullity they professe that their Protestation and other the like actings do stand or fall upon the justice or iniquity of these Resolutions and all-along in this Piece it is their great argument both to justifie their actings and their not accepting the Overtures of Union We cannot but again put them in mind that naked assertions in this particular will not satisfie judicious men seing if they cannot by Scripture and sound Reason condemn these Resolutions they will not only be found in an errour but to have rent a true Church in the prosecution and maintenance thereof And we believe unbyassed men will judge it very unreasonable that they should take liberty thus to start new Quarrels and Debates as they do in this Pamphlet till first they make it appear they have Truth on their side in these Debates upon which they first began the Rent They know that both in the Observations and more fully in the Representation this Question hath been debated with them And they would do well to satisfie the world with an Answer to these before they draw such conclusions as that a Church must be thus overturned because these Resolutions are owned by it We are content that that Question Whether in the case of an Invasion all the Subjects of a Nation may lawfully be imployed by the Magistrate for the defence of the Publick and their own private interests and concernments be taken into consideration by all Reformed Churches and are confident that they will abominate our Brethrens principles who not only do resolve the Question negatively but have bred so much confusion because the Church did owne the affirmative as orthodox though with much tendernesse and many cautions and that after that the Nation had been already weakned not only by former stroaks but by the divisive courses of those some of whom are not yet wearied of that trade What can be concluded from this opinion of our Brethren but a condemnation of all the Protestants in Europe who not only in the case of invasion but otherwise do not scruple to joyn in the Armies of their supream Magistates and Confederates even though they be Papists But we shall not insist to repeat what hath been spoken more largely on this subject Only till they make good their assertion in this the most of their other assertions and practices mentioned in this Pamphlet will want a bottom to rest upon and can be looked upon no otherwise than as the furious actings of men ruining a Church because she will not erre with them 4. What they speak of the Mock-repentance of those men who were admitted by the Publick Resolutions may easily be answered if we consider 1. That seing by unanimous consent Anno 1648. the body of the People who had concurred in the matter of the Engagement were ecclesiasticè purged of that scandall at a solemn Humiliation a very few only were left to be the subject matter of that debate 2. If these men who were not taken-in with the first might have been imployed for the defence of the Nation without the profession of their repentance yea suppose they had been of another Religion as we believe is made out in the Representation Then certainly the Question about their Repentance is extrinsick to the lawfulnesse or unlawfulnesse of the Publick Resolutions though de facto it be an untruth that these Resolutions were approved before it was determined that such as were to be admitted and had not yet given evidence of their repentance should be required to do it 3. When these men were enjoyned by acts of Assembly before our differences to repent of their former courses under the hazard of Excommunication why is it accounted a crime for them to obey or for the Judicatories to receive them 4. When the far greatest part of them were admitted to repentance long before these Resolutions came to be debated yea before the Assembly 1650. why is the odium thereof cast upon the Resolutions or upon the Commissioners of the Assembly 1650 who did assert them and the Assembly 1651. who did approve and ratifie the Judgment of the Commission 5. When some of the chief of those who were admitted to give evidence of their repentance about the time of the debate of the Resolutions were examined tried and admitted by men of their own party and judgement why do they lay it at our door as a mock-repentance 6. When the Rule concerning their admission to repentance was found why is the misapplication thereof if any there was charged upon the makers of the Rule or the approvers of the Resolutions and why is the wickednesse of some few desperate persons which is all we believe they can instruct if any thing at all laid to the charge of all who gave evidences of repentance for these courses as proving them all to have mocked God and that Church-order must be violate rather than they have any hand in the election of a Minister 5. As for what they say of the Acts of these Assemblies debarring men of their judgement from the Ministrie and from being members of Presbyteries and Synods If those Resolutions be found just and orthodox and those Assemblies to have been lawfully constituted as we are confident to make-out both they can have no just reason to carp at these Acts concerning those who not content to be dissatisfied or to have sufficiently exoâ—ered themselves in that matter do still continue to oppugn the same in publick preaching Yet we adde further that here was no tentation to break order seing so far as we know none of these
A REVIEW AND EXAMINATION Of a PAMPHLET lately published Bearing the Title of PROTESTERS NO SUBVERTERS AND PRESBYTERIE no PAPACY c. By some lovers of the Interests of CHRIST in the Church of SCOTLAND EDINBURGH Printed Anno Dom. 1659. A REVIEW and Examination of a Pamphlet lately published Bearing the Title of Protesters no Subverters and Presbyterie no Papacy c. THough it be a sad affliction to the spirits of men who love and thirst after Peace to be kept in a continuall fire of Contention yet we do not think it strange that desires and endeavours to quench that flame which hath been so long burning in this Church meet with no better entertainment from these Witnesses to the way of the Protestation Authors of this Pamphlet Who being as we have just cause to believe some of the prime contrivers and promoters of these evils regrated and complained of they do well not to trouble the rest many of whom we believe would not have joyned in this Answer to give any expression of their sense of the Overtures of Union made to them nor put them to spend their spirits and time that way But this being their own more kindly element they will be at the pains to put this Piece in their hands printed in such a volumn as it may be a Vade meâ—um where-ever they go That so honest-minded Ministers and People who we perswade our selves are weary of debates and might be drawn to an Union were it not for such who for their own ends keep up the Rent may in so far as they can prevail not only be induced never to think of Peace more upon the tearms offered as they expresse their design in the close of their Postscript but may be affrighted as they are pleased to speak of us pag. 15. from their Mother-Church and Brethren as Monsters as a company of Arians dealing with an Athanasius and as Tyrants Popes and Prelats whom our fathers opposed and may drink-in these corrupt principles of Church government here propined whereby every man is taught to do what is right in his own eyes to call any thing of Church-government which crosseth his humour but alterable and humane and when he pleaseth to think his Judge doth him wrong if he cannot thrust him out and set himself in his seat then to sleight and contemn him yea and to make every ordinary Minister an Apostle who had not their call by men and so were not subject to them in that matter As the sight of this Pamphlet hath quickned our desire yet more and more to mourn over the sad and deplorable case of this poor Church so long afflicted with these distempers and confusions without hope of healing and so grievously reproached and exposed as a laughing-stock to her enemies and a grief to her friends and to spread it before the Lord who knoweth her affliction and reproach So we desire these men may seriously lay to heart the accompt they have to make for their continuing thus to disquiet and tosse the Church and People of God in this Land and to ponder how truly the Spirit of God hath given warning that divisions will breed errours whereof they give sad proof in this Piece as to the point of Government And whereas they design themselves Witnesses to the way of the Protestation we wish them to consider that as to bear witnesse to an untruth or wrong cause is an horrid sin so however they arrogate that stile of Witnesses yet their consciences can tell them they give their testimony without any great hazard having verified that they are rather seeking their own things than the things of Jesus Christ However let them for us brook their title of Witnesses and let the Reader adde such epithets thereunto as he thinketh they deserve If we should draw out a Reply proportionable to their practice who have published so many sheets in answer to little more than one sheet it might certainly be said we had very little to do beside Sure we are it should be very little to edification And though we might have satisfied our selves with some Animadversions only upon their new principles leaving other matters which either are spoken to already in print or are matters of fact which however they busk them are seen in their own colours by them who know us both and impartially observe us Yet considering their great trade hath been to make more use of stories and reproches than arguments and that those may be more taking with the simple and unadvised than stronger reasons and withall that we are bound to say somewhat in defence of the Overtures of Union which they endeavour to render so odious Therefore we shall with all the brevity we can take a view of this whole Pamphlet hoping that in matters of fact which cannot be got proven to the world in print our assertion deserveth no lesse credit in name of this poor Church than theirs whose interest it is to defame her lest otherwise they incur the title of Schismaticks and Disturbers We being alwayes ready to make-out before the Judge competent the truth of our assertions Yet it is not to be expected that we should dwell on every thing they start here nor jangle on every thing in the by but only that we take notice of what is most materiall And therefore in the very entry we shall leave sober men to their own thoughts of the insolent and vain Title of that Pamphlet so injuriously reflecting upon this Church and the Government established therein Nor shall we descant much upon the designation of the Resolutioners and Resolution-party which they are pleased to confer upon us yea and upon this Nationall Church in the generality of her Judicatories Seing to omit the injustice of branding us with the name of a Party if they will adde the Epithet of Publick which they deny us not either to our Resolutions they will sound better in any indifferent ear than any privat designs of men destructive to the publick and tending to advance their own particular interest And we could easily repay them with designations as true and more unsavoury to them were it our work to be so imployed And though they are pleased to call these Resolutions Rotten Resolutions pag. 85. Yet we doubt not but they will be fragrant in the Churches of Christ as a Truth of God when they shall be dead and rotten and their opposition thereunto unsavoury We shall as little trouble our selves with what is said of the Representation seing we believe themselves do judge it is more easily traduced than solidly answered And as to what they are pleased to speak of our Reverend Brother whom they call our Agent pag. 15 16. As that Representation containeth nothing unworthy to be owned by him or whereof he needeth or will be ashamed So the innocency of his agency to prevent the evils they were endeavouring to bring upon this Church and his carriage and integrity in managing that Trust are so
we should search throughout the Countrey for an Answer to what they alleage of some Synods entertaining their motions concerning the Declaration or of matters of fact about the way of owning it especially when their generall discourse leaves us to our conjectures what Judicatories in particular they would reflect upon This we will confidently maintain That some Presbyteries not owning of the Declaration judicially as yet is no argument that they will not owne it or suppose they do not owne it judicially nor tender it to their Brethren who are more peaceable than elsewhere and free from any accession to these disorders complained of that they do not approve of it That though other Presbyteries did only owne the Overtures of Union at first waving the Narrative if so be they might bring up their Dissenting Brethren to accept thereof yet this may well prove their peaceable temper but not their disallowing of the Narrative as their after approbation thereof hath made manifest And that what ever they say of the dissatisfaction of some of our judgement with it or some parts of it which though it be not proven yet we willingly grant it can never be expected that any should own all the particular expressions in a concluded Paper which they cannot alter nor is it necessary they should do so yet there are none of our Brethren but they owne the matter and do concur in condemning their Declinatours irregular practices proposals and what else is condemned therein and in approving the Overtures of Union Nor do we see any cause why they should quarrell that Brethren appointed to tender the Declaration to such of them as do not meet in Presbytery with their Brethren should return an authentick testimony of their diligence to them who sent them seing that is not unusuall in diverse cases without any imputation upon men And for what they say some declared of their dissent from the Government though we can speak nothing as to the truth of the thing nor do we know from what particular Presbyteries to seek information and we know some Presbyteries challenged by them upon this account have vindicated themselves that they never meant to charge upon them that intentionally they did dissent from it yet they will not soon satisfie and silence all who have that opinion that their principles and actings tend that way 2. Another quarrell they have against the Title is that hereby the Authors of the Declaration do exclude them as not being for the Government for so they complain of the Title and other passages in the Declaration pag 11 12. To which this answer in the generall may suffice That it is a truth we are for the settled Government and Judicatories of this Church it is also true they have dissented from us in the matter of that Government not only in quarrelling and endeavouring to overturn the constitution of two successive supream Judicatories of this Church but as we will hear more fully afterward in projecting and endeavouring to lay aside the ordinary way of exercising that Government by the Judicatories instituted by Christ and yet continued with us and to act in a new and extrajudiciall way And therefore though we will not judge of ther intentions and the Authors of the Declaration never minded that designation as exclusive of them yet we fear not to assert that these actings and proposals of theirs are upon the matter and as to the nature and tendencie of the work which is all they can fasten upon the passages of the Declaration cited by them contrary and destructive to the Government and consequently had need to be the better looked to by them who would clear themselves of any such imputation This in the particular prosecution of it leadeth us to the first head propounded And seing they spend much of this Pamphlet in vindicating themselves in this particular we will therefore examine how they acquit themselves leaving their defence about the matter of Subordination till the close of all as was said before In the generall they clear themselves of this charge partly by a solemn profession that their fear of our ruining the Government and other Ordinances of God and the work of Reformation and their desire to edifie His Body made them differ from us and act these things which we call irregular disorderly and destructive Partly by appealing to their actings in professing preaching printing for this Government and no other in owning themselves as members obeying just Sentences c. and partly by solemn taking God to record in this matter So pag 12 13 14 15 16. To this generall we answer 1. Whatever they retain of respect to that Government yet this Piece will abundantly clear that they will never owne it in any hands but their own They will not submit to Judicatories nor allow of a General Assembly so long as the plurality is opposit to them as we will after hear And as their actings are not only really destructive to the Government as it is now established and exercised in this Church which way of expressing our grievance we know not why they carp at pag. 18. seing their acknowledging themselves members of Presbyteries and Synods c. pag. 13. seemeth to us to import an approbation of the exercise thereof in our Judicatories as an Ordinance of Christ but inconsistent with the exercise of Presbyterial Government in any reformed Church no lesse than in this So we fear that those tentations they alleage to have been cast in their way pag. 16. though we deny that ever any just provocation hath been given have prevailed more to hide the tendendencie of their way from some of them than they are aware being but too well known to be impatient of any contradiction 2. As to what they alleage of their fears of us This is not the proper place to discusse the other particulars concerning our ruining the Ordinances of God and work of Reformation And whatever they alleage of this Yet no desire of theirs to edifie the body of Christ nor any wrong supposed to be done by us can warrant them to do a reall wrong to the Government and so sin against God who needs not their sinfull courses either to promove any of His holy ends or to prevent hurt from the sin of others But as to the matter of the Government which is the question in hand and their fears of us As we are confident they will get no Compurgators in this cause among un-byassed men friends to this Government So we hope impartiall observers will here take notice of their spirit and way whereby they may know them the better in other things who dare assert to the world That they overturn Judicatories act in matters ecclesiasticall contrary to the established order and out of the road-way as themselves afterward confesse do drive designes to have the exercise of the Government turned out of the right channel in the most materiall things intrusted to the Judicatories by Christ and
them the power of a General Assembly is but too notour in their judicial condemning the authority and constitution of General Assemblies But wherein this crime of Synods taking that power on them can be charged upon us we know not unlesse it be on this account That now when General Assemblies do not meet yearly as they were wont to do Synods do take-off the Censures of some Ministers according to the Order observed by General Assemblies themselves when they did open the mouthes of any And this we believe will not be condemned but any unbyassed person will judge it unreasonable that men being in a capacity to be imployed in the work of the Lord should be keeped back because a General Assembly who used to reserve such cases to themselves cannot meet to give them liberty We believe that in the want of General Assemblies as in Holland they will not judge that Synods may not do more in things within their own bounds than if they had them yearly And to use their own argument here we think they should not quarrel this who not only wait neither for Presbyteries nor Synods but do themselves take-off their own Censures inflicted by General Assemblies but their extrajudicial meetings do transact and conclude things of most important and general concernment to the Church III. To the complaint of their slandering of us they make a large return pag. 24 31. And First They begin with recrimination making mention of a Latin Piece lately published which they father on a dead man reflecting also on our Preachings and Prayers and other Pamphlets as they call them Ans To adde nothing to what is formerly said of their inhumanity toward the dead we shall only imbrace their own Overture and shall be obliged to any of them who shall be at the pains to turn that Piece in English and let it plead for it self And for our Preachings and Prayers though we love not to justifie our selves or cry-up our abilities and abundance of matter for that work for who is sufficient for these things Yet we make conscience to speak nothing in publick but Truths of God and such things as are suitable to the present condition of our hearers and who so reproacheth us in these things we must leave it at our Masters feet in whose Name we speak However we have learned not to credit all the news they give us of the acceptance of our Ministrie either with these of our or their own judgement being we hope approven not only to God but even in the consciences of our hearers And we may also say there was never more forbearance given in a constituted Church to irregularities in preaching than hath been given to theirs though they be so unparalleled and all out of love to peace Whatever we say or write against their cause and actings therein yet we use not to slander their persons in things extrinsick to the cause as they do to us nor did we publish any thing of that kinde till they by printing and writing had defamed us at home and abroad which necessitated us to say somthing for our selves and the Cause of God in our hands Secondly They justifie these their actings by shewing that they were necessarily drawn thereunto in their own defence wishing us to have patience if these be slanders till God clear our innocencie and discover their malice and treachery But if there be truth in them they may lawfully plead with their Mother for good ends Answ 1. Though we indeed confess it our duty to walk submissively before God under most unjust aspersions yet we believe that doth not hinder us to vindicate our own integrity and the integrity of a National Church far lesse doth it warrant them who put us to this exercise thus to insult over us with such Ironick counsels as they account them we forbear to declare whom they imitate in these pranks and are truly sorry that their pertinacious adhering to such divisive and destructive courses notwithstanding all the sad fruits which they may daily perceive to flow from them doth discover them so much to all impartial observers 2. Our controversie being with them about the Publick Resolutions and admitting of persons to imployment in a Civil State and Armie and about the constitution of a General Assembly we see not what could cast them upon the necessity of this defence of traducing all the Ministrie in that cause seing they were standing Ministers in the Church before not declared uncapable of being in a Gen. Assembly And sure they fell not within the compasse of the Question of the Publick Resolutions and therefore they might well have debated these points without reflecting upon the Ministrie save in so far as they pleased to quarrell so many of them as were upon the Commission and Assembly for their approving the Publick Resolutions wherein they have been sufficiently answered already and those who are concerned are still ready to defend and justifie themselves The truth is after these debates about the Resolutions and Assemblies were become threed-bare and invidious to all sober spirits that they should keep up a rent because of them they fell to a new clamour about purging of which they here speak and in which we did not controvert with them neither before nor in the time of their rent yea nor since save in so far as we have still complained that their disturbing of Church-unity and order made it ineffectuall in many respects What their design is in it may clearly appear from this Pamphlet wherein oftener than once they insinuat and declare that they hold our Judicatories corrupt and would not joyn in a General Assembly so long as men who as they alleage have made a defection by approving the Publick Resolutions are the plurality in them So that to have themselves again in power and others out they make this clamour against us which is unjustly said to be in their own defence but rather in prosecution of their design to overturn the Church-judicatories as now constituted that so they may get all the power in their own hands as was told them in the Declaration 3. It cannot be accounted an act of defence for them to divulge mens supposed faults in stead of seeking to have them judicially tried and censured and when none was pursuing them to blaze them abroad in another Nation and Church to make way for their obtaining of power to themselves over their Brethren 4. Albeit we should be silent as to the truth of their charge yet that passage Hos 2.2 will not justifie their way of proceeding We hope they will not make the state of this Church parallel to the state of Israel at that time when this command was given to the Godly which they now pretend to imitate For then they must conclude this Church not to be Gods wife but an harlot and though she have corrupted neither Doctrine Worship nor Government yet she must be put in the same classe with
vile Idolaters Withall if even when a Church is not Gods wife but idolatrous yet her children are bound by that command to plead with her as a Mother before she get an actuall bill of divorce Then certainly a true Church keeping the purity of Religion should not have her nakednesse discovered to the world by divulging the faultinesse of some of her Members or Teachers without dealing with her self to take course therewith And it hath been long since told them in the Observations pag. 17. that Mr. Burroughs was of another spirit who adviseth that we should plead with a Church orderly in so far as may be and by her Judicatories and Ministers which are her mouth and peaceably sitting down when we have discharged our consciences But they have observed no such rule nor moderation Thirdly But to make out the truth of their charge they make a long deduction of a storie That the body of the Ministery had been corrupt under Prelats that the Generall Assemblies had acknowledged this remaining corruption and therefore judging that Presbyteries and Synods were not able or willing to purge themselves they found it necessary for several years to appoint Commissions to try and censure Ministers and Elders as was accordingly done That these Visitations again appointed in the year 1650. were not kept by reason of the war And that since that time few or none have been purged-out by Presbyteries and Synods but many of those who were formerly purged-out are taken-in without sufficient evidences of their repentance Answ As we are very unwillingly brought upon the necessity of vindicating our own and others integrity when we believe the Lord is calling us and our Brethren also to be rather lamenting after Him and confessing before Him our failings and miscarriages for which He is contending with us So we hope we may without vanity say what hath been openly avowed by some of their own side that whatever failings are among us we have generally as well qualified a Ministerie as any other reformed Church they know We are sure this long storie is a very poor proof of their charge and they had better made it out by proving or offering to prove it at least against the particular persons in their respective Judicatories For 1. it is a very unconcludent proof against the present Ministerie of this Church that many of them were corrupt and prelaticall before the year 1638. and that the Generall Assemblies did then and after complain of it For now in so far as we know of this Church few of them are alive or unpurged-out by the Commissions they speak of and other Church-judicatories who were corrupted under Prelacie and no wonder if twentie years make a great change of the Ministerie of a Land and generally the Ministrie doth now consist either of those who were opposit to Prelacie or who have been since planted And if some few of these be in the Ministery who were led away in the time of Prelats as we believe they have proportionably their own share of those on their side So those whom we know of them adhering to the Judicatories of the Church may hold up their faces against all malice and detracters for their sincere renouncing of that course their ability to serve God in the Gospel of His Son and their blamelesse and Godly conversation and we believe many of their opposers would be ashamed to compare with them in any Reformed Church 2. Though we judge it great presumption in them to assert the inability far more the unwillingnesse of Presbyteries and Synods to purge themselves because the Generall Assemblies did appoint Visitations Seing the Assemblies themselves did give no such reason of their deed and they might well take their own wayes of visiting and taking notice of the affairs of this Church to the good liking of the Respective Judicatories and without any such imputation upon them Yet had it been so as they assert in the time when they made complaints of the corruption of the Ministrie who did only in an externall way renounce Prelacy the case must needs now be altered when as is said these men are generally gone 3. Because the Assembly 1650. did appoint Visitations for triall and censure which did not meet must we therefore conclude the body of the Ministerie corrupt Sure their Commission was to try before they censured and may it not as well be supposed they might have tried and yet found nothing like the clamour these men raise And would not the ensuing Assembly have approven them if they had used diligence unlesse also they had cast out the generality of the Ministers as this charge must bear it where they visited This seemeth to us strange arguing that because an Assembly appointed men first to try and then to censure as they found men guilty which imports at most but a presumption that some guiltie persons might be found where they visited for we remember not that either information or accusation against any person or persons within these bounds gave a rise to most of these Visitations therfore the plurality in those bounds must be corrupt and these Visitators could not have given a faithfull account unlesse they had cast them out and that if Synods and Presbyteries have not purged out many since for even the purging of a few will not suffice them therefore they are cooled in their zeal We seriously professe that as we do not omit to search out the faults of Ministers by enquirie at Visitations Presbyteriall or Synodicall as need requires or otherwayes by formal Processe when either there is a scandal raised on them or information or accusation given-in against them And we durst appeal to the Consciences of these our Brethren joyned with us in that work whether we have not been most exact not only in continuing them under Processe were it for years so long as there was any probability to prove any thing against them but in censuring the least thing that we found which yet hath oftentimes been very little after some years toil according to the strictest Rules of Discipline So that we know no cause these Witnesses have to complain of us but that we will not thrust-out men whether we can find them guilty by an orderly way of trial or not If we took pleasure to recriminate we could easily make it appear that they have done lesse these years bygone for purging-out those of their own judgment in places where they have power than hath been done by us in reference to those of our judgement For albeit it be not our way to make such clamours of the corruptions and insufficiencie of men of their judgement as they do of us yet it is known that diverse of them are suspected of insufficiencie and diverse reports of grosse scandals have been vented of others of them of which they have taken little or no notice 4. As for the reponing of some men to the Ministrie who were formerly deposed we believe that these
seven years past there have been fewer reponed by far than used to be reponed by Assemblies and other inferiour Judicatories in so long time before And as the particular Judicatories who reponed them are ready to answer to their Judge competent for their deed and to give in the meantime a satisfactory accompt to any unbyassed person So were the matter as grosse as they can make it yet the number of those who are reponed are not so many nor in so many Synods for they insist chiefly on one as to prove this generall corruption of the Church And if any favour hath been shewed to some who are deposed simply for their being silent in the matter of the Engagement 1648. who yet did acknowledge much sin in that complex course before they had liberty to Preach as to our best remembrance it was not the deed of those of our judgment only but some of our Brethren did joyn in that matter So we believe that were the men known it would be judged no corrupting of a Church to enjoy such Labourers and we have credible information that those of their Congregations who sometime opposed them upon our Brethrens principles do judge so of them Fourthly They close the confirmation of the truth of this charge with the testimony of the Godly bewailing the same things with them declaring also that Malignants who were formerly enemies to Reformation and to the Government and Judicatories of the Kirk do now cry-up the Judicatories and Ministers who are opposit to the Protesters And that now the weapons of Kirk-government are imployed against the Godly which are appointed of God for their defence and comfort Answ We have been so long acquainted with their arrogating the title of the generality of the Godly to their party and with arguing from mens testimonies in this cause that they cannot have much weight with us only it would be thought a strange paradox with them if we should assert as truly we may that many precious and godly persons both Ministers and others are deeply afflicted for their irregular and divisive courses and that they will never give over contending nor joyn with their Brethren in the Lords work and that they are too lavish in their charity in crying-up of all who joyn with them while they spare not to load even the best of those who are opposit to them with calumnies But as to the business in hand we think it not strange that their party be ready to cry-out of the Ministerie of the Land seing that hath been their Leaders work these years bygone to traduce the generalitie of the Ministerie in their Preachings and on all occasions and to possess people with prejudices against them that so they might fix them to themselves And when we find some of their Schollers such proficients as after they had brought them to abhor the bodie of the Ministerie they came at length to renounce themselves yea and all Ministerie at least a Ministerie of the Church of Scotland and others have not feared to assert and that to some of our selves That they would not have the Apostle Paul to be their Minister were he not of their judgment and that they would count it good service to Christ to stone some of the most godly and able Ministers not of their judgment whose praise in the Gospel is throughout the Churches of Christ When we say some have made such proficiencie it is no wonder they have prevailed with the generality of them to be dissatisfied with the bodie of the Ministerie They have if they would consider it an heavy account to make for their mis-guiding of people in this particular and for mis-employing their zeal and affection which should be taken up mainly about their own condition upon these controversies and debates and by teaching them to reject their Teachers who are neither erroneous insufficient nor scandalous have learned them we fear to run too wilde in this particular and even to weary of those whom they account good men upon an apprehension that comparatively they are not so good as others Whereas diversitie of gifts hath alwayes been in the Church and men ought not therefore to be contemned because they cannot equal others though really it were so since Christ appointed His weak Disciples to be heard in the dayes of His own Ministerie and the Apostles did appoint ordinary Ministers to be heard in their own dayes And as to what they say of Malignants we are often in this Piece cryed out upon as huggers of the Malignants countenances of and countenanced by them And yet the world seeth that some of our Brethren are the great Courtiers with diverse of them even of these whose receiving by the publick Resolutions is their great quarrell For our part as we have learned neither to love nor loath a cause because of persons owning or opposing of it but as it shall be found to agree or disagree with the Rule So we blesse Him from whom we have received mercy not to countenance or approve of Malignancie profanity or errour though we hold our selves bound to become all things to all men that we any gain some and not to give even the worst just occasion to reject or take a prejudice at our Ministerie if so be we may draw them to Christ which is the great end of the Gospel committed to our trust If men who have been or yet are Malignants do approve a truth or a good course we cannot therefore reject it but do rather see cause to blesse God that any do owne the truth of God and respect this poor Church when they are so busie to ruine it We hope they will not judge the cause of Anabaptists Quakers Antiscripturists and the like Sectaries a whit the better that they can object that profane men do countenance their opposers and the Truth 's oppugned by them And take the case as they state it let themselves be as good and holy and others as bad as they call them and all that can be inferred from it is that they have so much the more cause to mourn that they should let such men outstrip them in a good turn and be founder in their principles and way than they are We suppose it was no small aggravation of Davids fault in numbering the People that he was so violent in the matter when even a bloudy Joab is opposit thereunto and did not only witnesse against it but it is abominable unto him 1 Chron. 21.3 4 6. We do also acknowledge that Government and Discipline are appointed for the defence and comfort of godly men following the way of holinesse But we do not think it is appointed for the defence and comfort even of godly men in every course they take in hand save in so far as it is appointed as Gods own medicine to cure them when in a distemper and His rod to reclaim them when they are wandering And therefore when they are wrong were it imployed against
their evil courses though we know nothing done but the naked testimonies of Judicatories against them they ought not to repine IV. As to their vindication of their endeavours to set up extra-judiciall Committees of equal numbers for managing of the affairs of this Church to which they speak pag. 31. 39. We cannot but observe a notable piece of nimblenesse in their managing of this defence For they bring-in this challenge mentioned in the Declaration only as it is complained of that the not granting of that Overture of extrajudiciall Committees of equal numbers of both judgements to be chosen by the respective parties was a cause of breaking-up the Conference for Union without mentioning that other part of the complaint that they endeavoured and with much eagernesse prosecuted that design imploying all their credit with all sort of persons for that effect to have the same imposed upon us when they were at London Only they huddle-up what is said of that as a resuming and prosecuting that same point As if the Authors of the Declaration were complaining in both places of their breaking off the Conference only upon this matter And so all-along they hold us to the Article as propounded to us Only they give an hint of an Overture the same for substance as it was propounded to us without speaking to what an Overture it was and when or how given-in This is indeed an handsom or rather unhandsom conveyance or shifting of what they had no will to meet with For to say no more any unbyassed person will see a vast difference betwixt a desire to have an extraordinary Overture take place in a Church by the common consent of those who are concerned and some privat persons endeavouring and that after other designes to the great prejudice if not ruin of this Church had miscarried in their hand to have such things imposed upon the Church by the Civil Power when they had no Commission from the Church for that effect and knew it was dessented from in a former Conference by the Ministers of the Church upon whom they would have it imposed This is an usurpation upon a Church and her Government which we believe no sound Presbyterian will justifie nor any others who are not Erastians as was judged by godly Presbyterians upon the place when these Proposals were made to whom the Churches of Christ owe thanks for their testimonie to the Truth against such projects But to consider what they say leaving that distinction betwixt the essentials and circumstantials of Government pag. 33 34. to which we have spoken before They confesse it is an Overture out of the common road of ordinary procedure pag. 37. and therefore they are but in petitorio with it and had need to make their arguments for perswading us to run out of the way which we believe to be of God very pungent and pressing before we can yeeld to their desire We conceive their discourse on this subject may be reduced to these heads First That the decaying and distempered estate of the Church calleth for and alloweth such an Overture otherwise they professe they would be as far from pressing it as any other pag. 32 33. Which is upon the matter as we may hear more fully afterward that were they once the plurality and in power they would be loath to let it out of their hands or let any such Committee be set over them or any party presume to nominate an equall half of these Committees This we do very easily believe but now so long as they are out and cannot be content of their lot and share in Government as their number in Judicatories alloweth all must be corrupt and all the Judicatories cast loose and trod upon as unwilling and unable to do a good turn But to the matter As we know no other distemper nor unpeaceableness of this Church but what themselves have made and continued and therefore may cure it whenever they please to weary of these courses So for the supposed corruption thereof we have already considered how they have made it out Only we blesse God they will find no unsound Doctrine or Worship nor scandals in conversation approven in this Church nor yet that this Church is upon the declining hand since our differences as to the planting of able and honest Ministers And we do again assert That whatever corruption there be in Members of this Church yet this remedie once admitted of turning the Government out of the channel which we believe to be of God would be far worse than the disease and a preparative of most dangerous consequence whenever any party should be pleased to make use of the same Yea if upon the supposall of our corruption they infer the necessity of extrajudicial Commitees may not others gather much more from such premises Were it even a seperation from us or a prelacy as their Commitees are in effect in some honest hands to controul us in our actings They again inculcate pag. 33. That General Assemblies conceived extraordinary visitations needfull when the Church was in a better condition than now and when not a few in Presbyteries and Synods did say it was a foundation for an imputation upon Synods and Presbyteries Answ But to repeat nothing of what hath been said of the present case of this Church any body with half an eye may see a difference betwixt a General Assembly the Supream Nationall Church-judicatory their appointing their own Delegats chosen without respect to factions by plurality of Suffrages for going about a work and this extrajudicial Committee chosen by parties to do the affairs of Presbyteries and Synods Must it not be strange arguing That because General Assemblies appointed Visitations to try and censure therefore they should conclude guilt is found on the plurality of Ministers whereas themselves have found it otherwise where they have power and made trial of men and where they made as great a clamour of the corruption of men of our judgment as now they raise of them in other places And therefore also either must they who are a dividing party have matters tried in an extrajudiciall way without order otherwise they will do what they can to overturn the Church They retort pag. 37 38. That though they have not the same power the Generall Assembly had so to do yet the Assemblies ground and reason moving them to appoint these Visitations doth yet remain viz. that Presbyteries and Synods were not so healthy as to do these things of themselves which is much more true now when malignant men are got above hatches and sundry of them set to the helm Answ But 1. Is it not great presumption to parallel Visitations appointed by Assemblies and chosen by themselves according to Order and these Committees chosen by parties Did Synods choose such Visitations according to Order as they do upon occasion within their own bounds who would condemn it but for parties to impose a Nomination on a Synod is another matter
up formerly five Diocesses of our Prelats Further if he but gave his simple opinion upon demand in this matter and was not a projecter and procurer of it what needed any opposition to make him lay it aside and not prosecute it any further And how will he or they either convince knowing men that it flowed from his condescendence that that Order was laid aside when it was the deed of these in power here who perceiving the inexpediencie thereof and the prejudice redounding to many Ministers thereby procured the annulling thereof This also we may say further It was no sooner laid aside but they were upon new projects prejudiciall to the Church as is asserted in the Declaration 3. They say that we have done worse our selves for bringing the Ministerie into bondage by clandestine capitulations about Intrants to the Ministrie Answ We wish they had spoken out what they think needlesse to mention and if they had spoken truth it would have appeared how falsly they have charged us with any such clandestine capitulation and how much more falsly they have charged us with bringing the Ministrie under bondage In the mean time for our part we deny that there was any such thing And Mr. Rutherfurd who in his late Preface to his Survey chargeth this on a meeting of Correspondents from Synods hath given in print as much under his hand as that Engagement he speaks of amounts to so that if the rest be of his mind they quarrel not the thing it self but that they have not the credit to do it alone VI. In answer to what is said of their design in their three Proposals at London they give us an account and that in a different character of what we say of the first concerning their seeking a Commission for Plantation of Churches pag. 62. and in more than three pages following speak highly to our observations thereupon but never a word of the other two Proposals which the Authors of the Declaration laid most stresse upon for proving their Conclusion and therefore subjoyned them to the former in a different character that they might be taken notice of These Witnesses foreseeing how truly all these three together might prove the charge did therefore shufle in these as was said before with the businesse of the Conference where these same things were debated That so they might set their thumb upon them as if there were nothing of them here and then cry How weakly is it argued to conclude their attempting the ruin of this Church c because they desired a Commission of Plantation having power of disposing of the legal maintenance of Ministers As if because one of them and possibly the weakest of the three do not conclude it therefore all the three together will not And as if to endeavour the imposing upon Ecclesiasticall-judicatories in Ecclesiastick affairs by the Civil Power were but a peccadillo not worth the noticing by men who are writing Apologeticks of their respect to the Government and answering Calumnies as they call them cast upon them in that matter and when that is one of the particular and weighty charges laid at their door We believe it is no incivility to desiderate ingenuity and candor here and to suspect that this tergiversation speaketh no excesse of honesty in this particular And they know that if all the circumstances of their carriage and way in prosecuting these Proposals and other projects at London tending to the same end were laid open to the world it would give such a character of their respect to Presbyterial Government as would be little pleasing to them But what do they say even as to that Proposal 1. They tell us that they finding the inconvenience of putting the disposing of the legall maintenance of Ministers into the hands of a peculiar Court and then of the Council they did supplicate to have all that way altered and that Ministers might have full accesse to their stipends without Bonds or Engagements c. And that there might be a Commission for Plantation of Churches who might also do the duty of the Civil Magistrate anent Ecclesiastick matters c. Answ We have never heard more of the first part of their Supplication which we heartily wish were granted that they are pleased to tell us here and therefore fides penes Authores and if they have done good service in preserving the Liberties of this Church as they are pleased to take a good Testimony to themselves with a reflection upon their neighbours unbyassed men do perceive their Proposals do witness and one day which neither they nor we can get declined will declare But why do they huddle-up so darkly the matter concerning the power of disposing the Legal Maintenance of Ministers to be given to that Commission under these generals that thâ—y might do the duty of the Civil Magistrate anent Ecclesiastical matters which are the tearms they give us of their Supplication Or why do they make only a supposition of their desiring it when it is in terminis in their Proposal We shall wish them more candor than thus to deal with us and the world in print speaking so to the thing upon supposition as if it were in doubt whether they had done it or not And if their Supplication was so general there have been moe injuries than one in it to desire that all the duties of the Civil Magistrate in reference to Ecclesiastick affairs should be laid upon the shoulders of that one Commission For such a power taken in its latitude might not only include the late Order to which we spoke last in a new dresse and all the power which the Prelats had by vertue of their High Commission but all the power which Civil Courts or any Magistrate did exercise in Ecclesiasticis 2. They tell us it was no fault to endeavour to translate the exercise of that Power from one subject to another the Council being otherwayes necessarily diverted that they cannot conveniently attend it Answ But upon supposal of the resolution of the Civil Powers not to alter the former way of disposing of the Legal Maintenance which they had not only accounted inconvenient but even now pag. 62. had taxed it as a bondage upon the Ministerie by our Capitulations It had been more honestie for them not to condemn themselves in what they allow than thus to meddle to involve more in the guilt of drawing Ministers into such bondage The Council is beholden to them for caring for their ease though few Ministers are wearied with long attendance in that matter But we know these Witnesses better than to believe they would be so officious as to go to London and prosecute this Proposal so vigorously only for the Councils ease if they had not their own interest wrapped in it 3. They say that suppose their design in that Proposal had been to call the Authority of these late Assemblies in question as is charged on them in the Declaration yet not only that but
the pronouncing them null would not bring utter ruin to the Church and those that plead for them Nor do they see any inconsistencie betwixt that Commissions exercising their power and the standing of the Authority of these Assemblies Answ We must tell them again that had they taken-in all the Proposals here the Consequence had not been so dark And yet even that of their pronouncing the late Assemblies null hath given a sorer stroak to the Church than they will know well how to answer for as we have said and elsewhere cleared and keepeth men who plead for these Assemblies under the imputation of a defection and tyrannical usurpation of the power of a Gen. Assembly in this Church And this they will have still kept on foot were it but in such a matter as this till they be at leisure or have power to call them to an account for it And though we make no question but that Commission or any other Civil Court might exercise their lawfull power without any prejudice to the authority of these Assemblies or from the standing thereof yet any who please may see that their desire concerning the rule and way of that Commissions exercise of their power doth conclude them controverted Assemblies 4. In answer to that charge that the design was to have the maintenance put in the hands of men to their mind that so they might discourage all from the Ministerie who are opposit to themselves They are pleased to recriminate upon the Acts of the late Assemblies to which we have answered already and may meet with it again hereafter For they are afraid we forget it and therefore we are so oft told of it to make the volumn the bigger In the mean time we cannot but tell them That had the Church made use of those Acts as they did not yet the comparison is odious betwixt a Church taking course with those who renounce her Authority and are opposit to her just Determinations and a parties endeavouring to crush their mother-Mother-Church and such as adhere to Truth in her that they may promote themselves They tell us again that though they cannot say they are so self-denied as not to have wished it so which we as easily believe as we are sure de jure they ought not to have wished it so yet they never expected nor proposed that there might be such a Commission as might wholly consist of men to their mind Answ Neither did any charge that upon them for sure the Maintenance might have been put into the hands of men to their mind although that Commission did not wholly consist of such It might have sufficed for securing that if they had kept but such a proportion as men to their mind keep in that Order of which we spake in the last Section And though they put us off with this handsome shift yet we are sure they did not labour so hard in it to play an uncertain game to themselves by admitting an equality of parties or any thing like it in that Commission But they say further that though the Commission had consisted mostly or wholly of such there would have been room and encouragement for men of our judgment both to continue and enter into the Ministerie Answ Why they mention our continuance in the Ministerie here not to insist how much it would encroach upon the just power of Congregations and Presbyteries if our room to enter into the Ministerie did depend upon such a Commission we know not unlesse it be to put us in minde to tell them that there was a project also to meddle with the Maintenance of setled Ministers and to have the Stipends of all the Ministers admitted since the year 1650. sequestrate till they should come before such a Commission And though we do think than there were sober-minded men of their judgment let alone by such as these Witnesses and taught to meddle more with what concerned their eternal salvation and not to imbark themselves in controversies of this kind we needed not doubt of receiving all kindness from them Yet so long as they make it their trade to stir-up all who will give them any credit to traduce even the best of those who are opposit to them we will be sparing of setting our seal to their assertion unlesse there be an ambiguity intended here in the matter of encouragement which honest Ministers will never want in the work of the Lord even though Maintenance were withheld from them Having considered what they speak to this head of their own Vindication except what they say here to the matter of Subordination which we leave to come in with the rest that followeth on that subject we shall briefly consider how they remove two other prejudices before they come to the Overtures of Union I. Whereas it was laid to their charge that they began a needlesse rent in the Church upon a question so extrinsick to our Doctrine Worship and Government and that it is a tossing of a debate now so far removed out of our way meaning the debate about the Publick Resolutions To this they give several Answers pag. 67 68 69 70 71. And first They tell us we began the Rent in that some of the Commissioners of the Generall Assembly without giving timous warning to others did in the year 1651. suddenly take these Resolutions when the whole Church of Scotland was in possession of and by Covenants and Vows engaged to the Truths to which these Resolutions are contrary and destructive Answ As to the proceeding of the Commissioners in taking these Resolutions as they needed not go into corners with that Question it being well known that though all of their judgment had been present they would not have made any considerable part of that Commission for stopping their procedure to any such conclusion so they are able to justifie that there was no surreptitious dealing in that matter But that before that Question came to be debated that party had deserted their trust in the Commission in that time of strait and would not come to it But as to the matter it self though their having truth on their side would not justifie them from being the makers of the Rent if it were not relevant or tanti as to bear all the sad consequents of a Schism Yet we are content the Rent be laid to their charge who shall be found in the error in this debate And we must again tell them that it is not fair dealing to stuffe so many Pages on all occasions with lowd outcries against these Resolutions without so much as one Argument to make good their Assertion or any endeavour to answer what is written against them in this mater Let them make it good that there is an errour in these Resolutions That they are condemned either in our Covenants or in the solemn Engagement concerning which it hath already been told them that that Paper was so contrived of purpose as it might not precondemn these Resolutions if
we love to jest in our speaking of what some Presbyteries required of men of whatsoever judgement enquiring if they laid bonds on men of their own judgement that they should not debate for the Protestation and who gave them power to lay bonds on men of their own judgement seing the Assemblies Act speaks only of men of the other judgement To which we shall only answer with silence seing the matter is plain enough to themselves when they are pleased to come to it at last and Presbyteries might do all that had there been no Act of Assemblies in these matters confessing that indeed this is no matter of sport and if we be very merry we have not so much cause as some of our neighbours if we reckon by outward advantages 3. They break high upon us That some Presbyteries should impose silence upon men of their own judgement and yet we give them so ill example in our Representation and Declaration pag. 79. And what doth all this amount to but that we would be peaceable but they would not let us but either we must let them run all down or say somewhat for our own defence And yet the scope of all that is said in these Papers is to draw them and with them our selves to lay by the debate 4. As to what they deny of their activity for strengthning their Party and do insinuate of a reflection upon the Expectants of our judgement The particulars being so notoure through the Church both what they have done and what many of these Expectants of our judgement are we shall rest confident that such assertions as these will gain them but little credit where the truth of things is known 6. They take it ill that any thing is said in behalf of the Assemblies proceeding to censure any of their number which yet they cannot condemn till they make good their charge against these Resolutions and Assemblies and that we should lay any weight upon their Non-submission Seing we are not to thank that they did not submit they having suffered so many things at our hands and with our connivance But it proceeded only from the conscience of their own innocency and the iniquity and nullity of these Sentences pag. 80 81. Answ But as we are sure many others do not judge of these Sentences as they do nor it may be will they so look upon them themselves when they are brought to think seriously of making an account for their carriage both before and since these Censures So it is true notwithstanding all they say that they have not submitted And it is no great wonder if their not submitting and not hearkening to tearms of Peace have bred themselves and us both some trouble or that many in the Land do look upon them as turbulent and implacable men Yet all they can truly complain of amounteth to no more but this That a Synod did not to refuse to admit but take time to deliberate if they should admit one of them for a Correspondent seing it would import their condemning of a Sentence inflicted by a lawfull Judicatory though his spirit could neither submit to such delay nor suffer him to go away without such a carriage toward a Judicatory of Christ as we believe himself may find cause to be ashamed of That Judicatories of which some of them formerly were members could not owne them as Ministers who had been deposed by a lawfull General Assembly but did intimate their Sentence when they found they would not hearken to tearms of Union And that some of their Congregations who could not owne them for their Ministers when they could not be rid of them did seek to themselves a lawfull Pastor to whom they might submit And for what hath been between some of their Congregations and them we believe their pursuing of their people criminally though they were assoiled in Law and it was found they had pursued them unjustly will speak who exposeth others to suffer most However all these inconveniences might easily be helped by an Union if they had not the humour to force themselves upon the consciences of Ministers and People whether they will or not 7. Albeit whatever might be said of these Sentences we were content they should be taken-off in such a way as might not bind upon them the acknowledgement of the two late Assemblies or of the lawfulness and justice of these Censures Yet that doth not please them seing the Censures are not to be declared void and null Which as themselves interpret the meaning pag. 81 and 82. importeth that they should be declared not only unjust Sentences upon the matter but no real Sentences as proceeding from those who had no Authority And if this be an equal mean of Union without imposing upon our judgments to condemn that Authority let indifferent men judge 8. Albeit it was offered to them as to the Acts concerning the Publick Resolutions that they shall be rendered of none effect as to Censure and that they shall never be alleaged against them as the definitive judgment of this Kirk to any effect And albeit it was offered as to the constitution of the two late Assemblies That though we for a salvo of our judgement asserted that no unwarrantable prelimitations were put upon the election of Commissioners to these Assemblies no unwarrantable prelimitations should be put upon future Elections but that these matters should be carried-on as in former Assemblies proceeding our differences Yet this doth not satisfie them pag 82 83 84 85. They count it insufficient that there be a cessation from executing Acts relating to Censure till they be made void and null by the next General Assembly Answ And yet we know no Judicatories far less privat Ministers who have power to repeal their Acts but themselves They count it a mock-remedy that the Question concerning the Publick Resolutions be remitted to the Determination of a Generall Assembly Answ And yet they are the only competent Judges in that matter But they alleage it is a mock-remedy because by the Acts they are secluded from being members Answ And yet it is expresly provided in the Overtures for Union at our Conference That none of the particulars of our late differences shall be alleaged on either part against the sitting of persons as Commissioners in ensuing General Assemblies They alleage further that it is a mock-remedy because we will be the plurality in an Assembly Answ And we desire a remedy for this unless they will have us renounce our judgment or cast the constitution of the Church as corrupt and gather a new one out of the rubbish And yet it is offered and assured in the Conference that upon an Union we shall in our judicial actings abstract from these by-gone differences They think it strange we should judge it a quitting of our judgement to condescend that the Publick Resolutions should not be looked-on as the publick definitive judgment of this Kirk And that seing we agree to repeal Acts
Oeconomicall Mr. Gee in his Treatise of the Civil Magistrate pag. 36 37. urgeth that indeed lawfull powers are bound to use it lawfully but yet asserteth it as yeelded by all that this is not simply necessary to the being of a lawfull power but a power that is unlawfull only as to exercise may be for its habit and being included in the Text Rom. 13. and its irregular actings only discarded from it 4. That by the Word of God Submission or passive obedience is required and commended in some cases and that of a different nature from the suffering of guilty persons Matth. 5.10 11. 1 Pet. 4.15 16. And that in some cases the People of God are called to suffer without resisting as hath been the frequent practice of Saints and asserted by all Orthodox Divines writing upon Subjection as contradistinct to Obedience 5. That as Schism is an evil disapproven and never warranted of God So a man may be guilty of Schism who not only maketh a Rent and causeth disorder upon a cause destitute of truth but also upon a cause not weighty and relevant though true in it self This is so obvious to all who are anything acquainted with the Scriptures and with the Writings of the Ancients or latter Divines upon the nature and evil of Schism that it is needlesse to insist on the probation of it Whoso pleaseth to peruse Mr. Baxter in his Explication of the Agreement of the Ministers of Worcester-shire pag. 119. will finde much to this purpose in few words And among others these passages If the Scripture were conscionably observed men would take Church-division for a greater sin than Adultery or Theft Mutinies and Divisions do more infallibly destroy an Armie than almost any other fault or weaknesse And therefore all Generals punish Mutineers with death as well as flat Traitors And a little after Commonly they that divide for the bringing in of any inferiour truth or practice do but destroy that truth and piety that was there before We might upon these grounds multiply Arguments as they have taken pleasure it seemeth that way to make a shew of many which may be reduced to very few But we shall content our selves with these 1. If there be a Submission and passive Obedience due by Christians in any case to the Sentence of a Judicatory and commended of God as hath been presupposed and cannot without contradicting the principles of Christianity be denyed Then certainly it must be due to unjust Sentences For unto just Sentences requiring a duty under pain of Censure active obedience and not passive is due by the Word of God And as for Sentences inflicting Censures it is true Submission to such just Sentences is due by the Word of God but that is not the passive obedience required and so much commended in Saints in the Word but only that suffering which is contra-distinct to suffering as evil doers or for just causes as is clear from 1 Pet. 2.18 19 20. and 4.14 15 16 19. So that unlesse they will banish a command to suffer according to the will of God or cleanly suffering with a good conscience out of the Bible they cannot avoid this 2. As it is granted that Authoritie and Submission are correlative pag. 45. And that in just Sentences beside the obligation of the matter there is a formal obligation by its coming from such an Authority pag. 46. So in an unjust Sentence albeit Judges have no authority nor warrant from God to do that act and it is null before Him nor doth it oblige the conscience by vertue of the matter of it Yet so long as they continue the standing Authority of a Church somewhat is due to them relative to that Authority and that is Submission If they could make them simpliciter no Judges because they erre in a particular fact they would say somewhat but seing they are still lawfull Judges even when they pronounce that Sentence though they fail in it It must be held as of general verity that while persons continue invested with lawfull Authority Obedience or if obedience cannot with a good conscience be given Submission is due to their actings by privat persons For if Submission and passive obedience or cleanly suffering be due in any case and that not to just but to unjust Sentences and if the Submission be due not by vertue of any warrant given by God to pronounce that Sentence for there is none Then certainly there is a Submission due to the standing Authority of a Judge or Court as they continue still Gods Ordinance though they erre in that particular This consequence is not only owned and urged by Mr. Durham on the Revelation pag. 100. That submitting unto Church-power is a necessary and concerning duty and that without this Submission there could be no Government nor exercise of Power But their own very concession formerly mentioned pag. 45 46. doth put it beyond all controversie For if Authority and Submission be correlative and the one cannot subsist without the other more than one relative can actually subsist without its correlative Then we hope it is no slander to say that Submission is essential to Presbyterial Government seing Logicians have taught us and they grant it that take away a relative and the correlative ceaseth to be And therefore also either must the Authority of Judicatories when they pronounce some unjust Sentence be totally annulled or Submission must be payed as due to that Authority as hath been said This may 3. be further confirmed à pari Magistrates are bounded by the Word of God that they may not by their Commission judge unjustly nor pronounce an unjust Sentence more than Church-judicatories And yet albeit Magistrates do decree an unrighteous Sentence they may not be resisted but must be submitted unto by privat persons unlesse they would resist the Ordinance of God though coming short of the Rule in that particular act Now if this be granted to the standing Authority of Magistrates erring in a particular fact and granted it must be unlesse men will blow the Trumpet of Rebellion to every privat person and condemn Saints in former ages in their suffering under the unjust Sentences even of wicked Magistrates it cannot be denied either to the standing Authority of Church-judicatories Seing the case is alike as to the Authority of both to do evil and Subjection is due only in the Lord to the one as to the other And here we desire the Reader to take notice of a passage of Mr. Burroughs in his Lectures on Hosea chap. 1. ver 10. pag. 111. cited by Mr. Gee Treatise of the Magist pag. 257 258. where having denied that Submission active or passive is due to the Commands of men till it be brought to a Law and they be a Power He subjoyneth When things are brought into a Law understand a lawfull Authority established according to the Agreements and Covenants of the place where we live as the following words are and then suppose this Authority
Courts of Christ and consequently not to be submitted unto Yea in case such decrees were published we should hold it a case of Confession for Ministers to preach and people to frequent Ordinances so long as they had liberty or opportunity And so though neither the Apostles nor Prophets had been extraordinarily called nor cloathed with a Commission unrepealable as hath been said by any on earth their warrant was sufficiently clear in that case to hold up the oppressed truth of the Gospel against the sworn enemies of Christ and the Gospel who would neither preach Christ nor suffer Him to be preached by any other as we heard from these worthy Non-conformists Authors of the Treatise against the Brownists formerly mentioned But on the other hand When a Church doth owne all the Truths of the Gospel and all the Ordinances of Christ and doth no sooner put out one from preaching of Christ but they provide another to make up that want and do dispense the Ordinances in purity to the people of God In such a case which through mercy is the case of this Church as we have heard Suppose they do erre in discharging one to Preach and another to come to the Ordinances It is not the will of God that persons so suffering should make a Schism by their Non-submission and counteracting upon the account of their personall suffering or prejudice as the preceding Arguments do abundantly prove But having used all lawfull means of redresse by Appeals to superiour Judicatories they ought to acquiesce and submit to the will of God calling them to suffer rather than run upon the many inconveniences formerly mentioned But to clear this further 2. We would distinguish duties commanded us by God wherein we may be restrained by men For there are some morall duties incumbent to Christians simply and absolutely as they are Christians and which are simply in their own power by themselves and independently from others and enjoyned them without any respect to their Subordination or relation to others in the Church So that to their performance of them they neither need a call impowering them thereunto nor are dependent upon the concurrence of any others in or to the same Such as prayer to God and confessing of Christ which are of morall naturall right And there are other duties of morall positive institution which are not in mens own power severally and by themselves and independently from others in the Church but some way in the power of others beside themselves and are incumbent to men as they stand in relation or Subordination to others And are either duties to be performed by men as they stand cloathed with an Office received by the interveening Ministery of the Church such as the ordinary Ministeriall preaching of the Word and the administration of other publick Ordinances Or priviledges which they do enjoy by the Ministery of others who are to dispense them unto them or also by the joynt concurrence of others with them therein Such as the participation of Sacraments publick Assembly-praying and praising The difference here is very considerable Both as to the power of Disciplinary Sentences about them for Sentences of Church-censures are not conversant about performance of duties of the first sort but only of the second nor can there ever in any case a restraint be lawfully put upon men in the matter of praying and worshipping God or confessing of Christ as there lawfully may be in some cases in the second sort of duties And as to the matter of Submission to Sentences restraining men from and forbearing of the performance of them For the first sort are so intirely in our own power that we neither need a call from any warranting us to go about them nor the concurrent acting of any other for our enjoying the liberty thereof And they are so absolutely commanded without respect to any dependence upon any other and are so absolutely necessary necessitate medii for a mans glorifying of God and his own eternal salvation That it must be a sin not to observe them constantly as affirmative precepts ought to be observed yea a double sin not to adhere to them in a case of Confession as it is when these duties are prohibited by men But as for the second sort of duties Albeit as hath been said there can be no submitting to forbear them upon any decree of men prohibiting them in their very nature and kind Yet being duties that are not absolutly necessary necessitate medii and being as to the exercise thereof not wholly in our own power of and by our selves but some way dependent upon others also So that we cannot go about them without a call and warrant from others nor enjoy the exercise of them by our selves Therefore in case the Church who calleth and ordains a Minister will not suffer him to preach Or a Minister who hath the trust of dispensing Ordinances will not dispense the Sacrament to a member the sufferer breaks no command in suffering that injury after he hath essayed all lawfull means of redresse Seing his forbearance is not a voluntary and elective omission of the duty he is restrained from but a patient suffering of an injury under a necessity whereof providence hath brought him unlesse he would commit a morall evil which he is oblieged not to do by naturall right viz. make a Schism in a true Church and bring contempt on lawfull Authority It is his affliction and not his sin nor is it the violation of any commandment but only a cessation from a duty commanded when he cannot do it without the violation of another command of more universall and necessary obligation Neither is he by this cessation deprived of the exercise of any duty absolutely necessary to the honouring of God enjoying of fellowship with Christ and saving his own soul And if they deny these things they must yeeld also that in some cases beside that of an erring Conscience which is yeelded by all a man may be concluded under a necessity of sinning on all hands As that a Minister must either sin by forbearing to preach or sin in making a Schism by continuing to preach when he is deposed by a lawfull Authority in a true Church though erring in that particular As such a case and snare upon men is held by the Learned to be repugnant to the infinite Holinesse and Wisdom of God the Law-giver So we find godly sufferers before us very far from judging their Submission and suffering to be any violation of Gods command calling them to their work Parker on the Crosse Chap. 4. Sect. 14. cleareth that sufferers in the cause of Non-conformity did not voluntarily wilfully or sinfully give-over their Ministery adding It is not the leaving of the Ministery that is a sin but the causes why the end wherefore and the circumstances wherein that maketh the leaving of it sinfull To wit as he expresseth both before and after in that Section when men leave it for their gain