lay-pâ—pes yours are clergie enthusiasts The propagation of the christian faith to al ages even to the end of the world we believe by the ministery of the word established by our Lord and Saviour when he ascended far above all heavens that he might fill all things and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and sâ—â—e pastours and teachers for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministery for the edifying of the body of Christ till 〈◊〉 all comâ— in the unitie of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God 〈◊〉 a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ We acknowledge also that these ministers S. Paul speaketh of and distinguisheth by the titles of evangelists doctors and pastours c. ought to be lawfully ordained and be visible and known to those who belong to the true church though not always to their blood-thirstie enemies When our blessed Lord and Saviour fled into AEgypt and the woman into the wildernesse and the primitive saints wandered in deserts and in mountaines and in dens and caves of the earth when S. Hilarie complains against many in his time who were carried away with the splendour and outward pomp of the Arrian clergie possessing the greatest cities and towns you do ill saith he to be in love with wals hils and woods and deserts and gulfs are safer for me for in these the prophets either drowned or remaining alive prophesied by the spirit of God In such perilous times as these the visible pastours you speak of kept out of the eye of the world and the walk of their enemies and were not so known as you would seem to imply yet did they preach the gospel in despight of antichristian opposits bending all their forces and banding against them and there were added to the church daily such as should be saved PARAG. V. Concerning the perpetuity of the true church and her immunitie from all fundamentall ' errours in poynts necessarie to salvation CHALENGE Whence we say it followeth that not for six hundred years only as many protestants grant there was a true church free from spot of errour but likewise in all ages following there ever waâ— and must be such a church in the union whereof all might be saved Answer That from the creation of the first Adam and his consort till the comming of the second Adam to judgement there hath been and shall continue a true church in the world to which all that belong to Christs kingdom may and ought to repair for the means of salvation we doubt not And of this church we believe that though it consist of men subject to error as well in doctrin as in practise yet that it is so preserved by the spirit of truth promised by Christ from all fundamentall errours in points necessarie to salvation that neither the militant and visible church universally nor any true member thereof finally shall ever be stained with any spot of such errour But errours of lesse dangerous consequence which may be called pulvisculi navuli or aspergines spots indeed but not stains the visible church upon earth hath seldom or never been free from For to let passe the first six hundred years because on both sides we rather appeal to them than any way appeach them Beda who flourished in the year 730. bemoans the state of the church saying every man seeth with wet eys how the state of the church daily grows worse and worse and well might he complain in such sort for Genebrard a popish chronicler confesseth that in succeeding times from Iohn the eighth till Leo the ninth all that sate in the apostolike chair fell away from the vertue of their auncestours deserved rather to be termed apotacticall and apostaticall than apostolicall And after the thousand year when satan was let loose even till the happie reformation of the church by Martin Luther let us heat what the witnesses of the truth in their severall ages have deposed touching the church failings especially in the western parts In the year 1050. Benno writeth that the popes chair was fearfully cut into more parts and that prodigie boded that those popes who were to sit in it should miserably rend the church of Christ In the year 1078. Lambertus Geasonburgensis writeth that tares ran over the whole field of Christ and that the whole body of Christs flock pined away in a consumption In the year 1160. Otho Frisingensis observeth that Rome grew in wealth and power but decayed in truth and justice In the year 1200. Ioachimus a religious Abbat discourseth how far the religion practised in his time differed from the form and manner of the primitive church and how the church now growing old like Solomon fell into idolatriâ— In the year 1290. Robert Gallus had a vision wherein he saw a pope saying masse with a lean meagre and dry head like as if it had been made of wood and the spirit said unto him this signifieth the state of the Roman church In the year 1304. Ubertinus a Casali chargeth the Roman church with grosse and foul adulterie the present church is called new Babylon which is the great whore because the true worship and love of her spouse Iesus is fouly corrupted in her and the spirit of righteous men in this time is oppressed above measure and is compelled will they nill they in many things to serve the whore in her unclean acts In the year 1320. William Occham thus declaimeth against the popes tyrannie and crueltie in wasting the church of God and suppressing the truth the bishops who now seem to govern and teach the people of God that they may compasse their wicked ends persecute those that defend the truth even to death and shed innocent blood In the year 1370. S. Brigetta describeth the miserable state of the church in her days in her writings extant in Bibliotheca patrum In the year 1416. Gerson the famous chancellor of Paris ingeâ—â—ously confesseth that many corruptions and abuses were brought into the church under the colour of religion which it were far better and more pious to omit than retain In the year 1460. Platina brandeth Christs vicaâ— with crueltie against the true servants of Christ He which calleth himself Christs vicar condemneth Christs commands and burneth them that believe in his words And in the life of Bennet the eighth he breaketh out into a bitter exclamation of the guides of the people in his time O the miserable condition saith he of these blind men who because they persist in errour against their conscience cast themselvs into everlasting perdition He that is not satisfied with this taste may glut himself if 〈◊〉 please with store of such bitter fruit gathered to his hand by the author and supplementer of Catalogus testium veritatis especially in the 14 centurie and Petrus de Alliacâ— de planctu curiae Romanâ— and de
barreth the heathen of necessary means to salvation whilst he seeketh not the true church with which to jown hands and amongst christians this invisibilitie supposed it were very hard to hold communion with her in the administration of the sacraments We then affirm and let our adversaries disprove it if they can that the Roman church hath bin always visible We affirm that the Roman church hath bin always catholike viz. universall The Romish church hath ever had a succession of true bishops and pastors derived from the Apostles still teaching the same unchanged doctrine in all substantiall poynts of faith All which going together and being onely found in her and no other church do evidently prove that she alone is truly Apostolicall and consequently out of her there neither is nor can be salvation To disprove us herin we require that a protestant church with these marks may be shewed to have bin always extant Or if they cannot do this as we well know they cannot let them labour to assign us another catholike church distinct from the Roman when she as they falsly suppose fell from the first truth Or at least they must shew us who were the true professors of protestancy in the immediate age before Luther began in what city town or countrey they dwelt and what writers speak of them which lived before our times If they cannot satisfie us in any of these demands in which alone we offer to joyn issue with them then do we think the day to be ours if they can name any who did both believe and professe the protestant doctrine in all points let them do it and then if we do not disprove them the day is theirs And seeing all is brought to this issue we wish your learned to encounter us in this only point and whatsoever they shall return for answer not belonging hereunto we shall account it impertinent and unworthy reply as not direct to our purpose which is to find out the true catholike and visible church Ridiculous it is to answer as some do that there were true believing protestants when Luther began but durst not for fear of fire professe their faith this wee say is to condemn them to have had no faith at all but to be a dissembling company of such as were neither hot nor cold Christ saying of such he that denyeth me before men I will deny him before my father in heaven Or if your men fly this difficulty we will joyn issue with them in the maintenance of that faith and religion into which we Englishmen were first converted by Austine a monk a man of God sent by Gregory the great bishop of Rome more then a thousand years since a faith confirmed by miracle from heaven and therefore must needs be true and never noted to differ from the common received faith of christendome in those days as appeareth by the severall epistles of the said S. Gregory to the bishops of Europe Asia and Africa with all whom he held communion of faith so as if Christ had a catholike church upon earth as needs he must S. Gregory was of it and it then being a true church we say holding still the same â—enets it must needs be so now Gods truthbeing like unto himself without change and therefore if an angell should come from heaven to teach us any other doctrine then we first received we are not to hear him the good seed being ever first sowed and the Galathians were worthily reprehended by S. Paul for not constantly retaining their first planted faith Or lastly if you desire to goe nearer to the times of the apoâ—â—les we will joyn with you to prove our faith in the days of Constantine the great who first built and opened christian churches and gave freedom for christians to come together and to know and publish to the world what was held by them which before could not so well be done by reason of the great persecutions in which the church had bin till then generally eclipsed Finis The PREFACE to the ensuing ANSWER {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} To the unknown reader BE not offended courteous reader at the epithete I give thee For I call him to witnesse whom the schools rightly term primam veritatem that I am in respect of my present condition to seek a man of quality and authoritie to whom wronged truth may fly for succour and shelter Albeit the ensignes are everie where displayed for the defence of the true protestant religion for which both sides ingage their persons and estates yet upon exact search it will be found that the flags and streamers lately in Ireland and now also in England are dyed with protestant blood And for my self in particular though in the former Halcyou days of peace I could scarce name more persons of worth and quality then patrons of my weak endeavours against the common adversarie yet now I may truly say with Gregory the divine epist. 31. {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Notwithstanding aâ— Cynegyrus in a sea-fight against the Persians after his weapons were wrested from him caught hold on the ship with his right hand and when that was cut off with his left hand and after both with his teeth as Crassus the famous oratour when Philip the consul sorely threatned him for speaking so freely for the liberty of the senate answered like a true Roman senatour if thou wilt have me hold my peace in so good a cause thou must cut out my tongue which after thou hast pluckt out with my very breath my liberty shall resute and confound thy tyrannicall humour and proud insolence in like manner though I have lost both libras and libros all means of livelyhood and liberty too yet I will never be wanting in the defence of Gods truth against Romish Idolatry and tyrannis while I have a hand to write or a tongue to speak dum memor ipse mei dum spiritus hos regit artus Having therefore received a chalenge from a Romanist whose name I know not who defieth the host of the living God and like Paris in Homer {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} hath demanded a duell a single combat with any that dare to enter into the lâ—sts with him in the quarrell of the Romish church I could not contain my self though restrained at the present and unfurnished of my choicest weapons but accepting of the chalenge I have met with him in the field pitcht by himself I mean the controversie touching the perpetuall visibilitie of the true church and other difficult questions both historicall and theologicall depending thereon Now because our Romish adversaries conceive that they have most advantage in this dispute of all other and therefore seek to reduce all questions to it as you hear in the chalenge I hold it fit in this proamble to the ensuing encounter exactly to state it and set it upon its true
bases In this question touching the visibilitie of the Catholike Church three terms are to be explicated 1. Church 2. Catholike 3. Visible First church by church we understand not a particular congregation or company confined to one certain place parish city or country for such a particular Church is not always visible Where there have been visible professours in many famous cities and countries there are few or none now and where there were none before as in divers parts of America there are visible churches now The canâ—lesticks follow the light and when the light that is the preaching of the gospel is removed the congregations that is the candlesticks are also removed and from what câ—y or country soever both are translated there is darknesse and in darknesse no visibilitie Secondly catholike is taken in a double sense logicall and theologicall logicall for a generic all notion of a church which is predicated of every particular church tanquam genus de specie as when we say the Greek or the Latine is a christian church In this sense church is the object of the understanding not of the sense and catholike so taken is intelligible not sensible or visible For universalia qua talia non cadunt sub sensum Secondly theologicall for the whole companie of all that are called to the knowledge of the truth and outward means of salvation by Christ having Gods word and ordinances among them The catholike church so taken is spread over the face of the whole earth and though not in the whole lump yet in every part and parcel thereof is visible so long as that part and parcel continueth a member or portion of the catholike church and though some members like branches of the golden tree in the poet be cut off or wither yet others rise up in their places or upon some other boughs or arms of that great tree Thirdly visible when we say the catholike church in a theological notion is visible we mean in respect of outward profession of faith and publike use of sacraments common to all christians not in respect of the inward grace of the spirit and proper marks of the elect for so it is not object to sense Those marks are like the white-stone in the Apocalypse which no man knoweth but he that receiveth it and in this notion the whole companie of the elect is by our divines called the invisible church not that the elect in it are not seen but because this cannot be seene or known by sense that they are elect A child seeth a shining stone which is a diamond topaz or some precious gem but he knoweth it not to be a true jewell all men knew Nathaniel to be an Israelite but our Saviour only the beams of whose eyes pierced into the hidden corners of his heart could say behold a true Israelite in whom there is no guil That a man is a true Israelite that is hath true faith is a matter of faith and the catholike church taken for a companie of such as they are such is an article of our creed credo sanctam ecclesiam catholicam I beleeve there is such a holy catholike church but neither I nor any man else can discover it to be such by sense Yet to avoyd all mistaking the church we beleeve in the creed is not a distinct church from that which we see in the severall and particular members thereof For the elect which make the invisible church are in the visible as the soul is in the bodie or a diamond in a ring or the apple in the eye or gold in the oare and we may properly call them the church of the church as Demosthenes called Athens the Greece of Greece and Cicero Leontium the Sicilie of Sicilie Of the catholike church as it is invisible we dispute not now but as it is in the parts and members thereof visible and our question is rather de modo than de re not whether the church be always visible but how farre it is visible and whether such visibilitie be a proper and inseparable note thereof We acknowledge there hath been and ever will be a true church visible but not always eminent conspicuous but not always illustrious known but not always nutorioâ—s fair and specious but not always pompous and glorious For what shew could a church make when it consisted but in Abel and he was murdered and afterwards in Enoch and he was taken from the company of men to walk with God or at the death of our Saviour when as Alenâ—â—s reacheth the true faith remained onely in the blessed virgin and one candle alone left on Easter evening burning after all the other are put out in the Roman Church implyeth as much if we may believe the interpreters of that ceremonie Certainly the Church was brought to a low ebb when the deluge overflowed the whole world and only eight persons were preserved in the ark and it is a question whether all of them were eternally saved I am sure one of them namely Cham was cursed of God Shew me the glorious lustre of a visible church in the days of the Patriarks pilgrimage in Mesopotamia or their posterities bondage in AEgypt or captivitie in Babylon in which sad times they who lived and belonged to the true church sighed to God often in private but were not suffered to pray to him in publike they lifâ—ed up their hearts no doubt continually but not their hands they were so streightly manacled they often looked towards the holy city and the place where Gods honour dwelt but they could not stir their foot towards it for they were fettered All their sacrifices they could then offer were their broken and contrite hearts and their sweetest incense their burning desires and their drink offerings their tears which they powred out by the waters of Babylon and made them waters of Marah salt and bitter No marvail that the spouse of Christ hid her self in a strange land and then covered her face when it was swoln with grief and blubbered with tears but did she ever so in her own country and kingdom Did she ever wear a mask in Judah and Israel Did she ever there shut up her self in her closet and water her plants Certainly she did as we read 2 Chro. 15. 3. Now for a long season Israel had been without the true God and without a teaching priest and without the law but when they in their trouble did turn to the Lord God of Israel and sought him he was found of them v. 5. and in those times there was no peace to him that went out not to him that came in but great vexations were upon all the inhabitants of the countries What face of a church was to be seen in the days of Elijah who maketh this grievous complaint against Israel 1 King 19. 10. The children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant thrown down thine altats and slain thy prophets with the sword and I even I only
am left and they seek my life to take it away I suppose a clearer evidence of the latencie and obscuritie of the church cannot be brought Yet our Rhemists and Romanists seek to avoyd it by laying the whole blame upon the ten tribes of Israel and clearing Judah But it is too manifest by the reformation of Ezekiah 2 King 18. 4. and Josiah 2. King 22. 23. and the judgement of God upon Manasses 2 King 24. 3. that Judah was partaker with Israel and therefore both are alike charged by the spirit of God 2 King 17. 13. Yet the Lord testified against Israel and against Iudah by all the prophets and by all the seers saying turn you from your evill ways and keep my commandements and my statutes v. 14. notwithstanding they would not hear nor obey but hardned their necks like to the necks of their fathers v. 16. they made molten images and worshiped all the host of heaven and served Baal v. 19. also Iudah kept not the commandements of the Lord their God but walked in the staâ—…es of Israel which they made therefore the Lord cast away all the seed of Israel and afflicted them and delivered them into the hands of spoylers and carried them into the land Ashur where according to the prophesie of Hosea c. 3. 4. the children of Israel abode many days without a king and without a prince and without a sacrifice and without an image without an Ephod and without a Teraphim A sad text to comment upon no king no priest no scepter no censer no throne of David no chayr of Moses no court no temple Where was now the glorious hierarchie our adversaries dream of where was the reverend assembly of prelates the numerous congregations of people the solemn feasts the stately processions the rich furniture and pompous ceremonies and glittering shews which make the lustre of such a church as they would have Where was now the citie set upon a hill that cannot be hid the tabernacle piched in the sun At this time and afterwards in the days of Jeremie and Ezekiel and likewise after the death of our Saviour during first the ten persecutions of the church by the heathen emperours and in the middle by the Arrian and last of all by antichristian princes and states the true church was more like to the moon than the sun which is ofttimes in the wane sometimes in a partiall and sometimes also in a totall eclipse and true beleevers are compared to the sands which are by the sea shore and appear innumerable in calm and fair weather but in trouble som times as it were in a rough sea tribulationum tentationum fluctibus operiuntur atque turbantur not a sand is to be seen Such times have been and we are to expect no better in the lees of time and latter days For then many false prophets shall arise and deceive many Mat. 24. 11. and because iniquitie shall abound the love of many shall wax cold there shall be a falling away or a generall apostasie from the christian faith and the man of sin shall be revealed the son of perdition and the tail of the dragon shall draw the third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth and the divell shall rage the more by how much his time is shorter and the dragon shall give power unto the beast and he shall make war with the saints and overcome them and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him whose names are not written in the book of life When iniquitie getteth the upper hand and antichrist shall be in his highest elevation shall the son of man then find faith upon the earth that is as the Romish commentators themselvs expound the word any publike outward profession of faith any beauty of holinesse or appearance of a christian church S. Augustine resolveth negatively by the sun moon and stars the church in regard of her clearest lights and eminent professors is understood when the sun shall be darkned and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven the church shall not appear wicked men persecuting her above measure Against which times the Lord arm and prepare his dearest servants that love the truth in sincerity Aldersgate London from prison in Peter-house August the first 1644. Thine in the Lord Iesus D. F. AN ANSWER TO A POPISH CHALLENGE Touching the antiquity and visibility of the true church and other questions depending thereon PARAGRAPH I. Concerning the name catholike CHALLENGE We catholikes say c. Answer IF I mistake not in my guesse you seem to be some mendicant fryer and according to that profession you begin with begging for in the very first words you beg the main point in question to wit that you are catholikes saying We catholikes prove your selvs to be so and then speak so win the name and bear it mean while say not we catholikes but we papists or if you have a months mind to the name catholike qualifie it and allay it with your distinctive term Roman and speak as your fellowes do we of the * catholike Roman church that is we of the universall particular church for if catholike be universall surely roman is particular Or rather say not we catholikes say but we say that we are catholikes for this hath been the say of all hereticks and schismaticks The Arrians saith Salvianus and all other mis-beleevers are hereticks in our account but not in their own nay they so farre over wâ—â—n themselvs catholikes that they stick not to defâ—… us who are truly catholikes with the title and brand of hereticks As Sâ—… Magus stiled himself the great power of God and Iezabel called her selfe a prophetesse and Nestorius a notorious heretick covered himself with a vail of an orthodox professour and the Turks though it appear out of all stories that they came from Hagar the bond-â—oâ—â—n and are truly Hagarâ—ns yet give themselves the names of 〈◊〉 so you papists generally though you are a medley or cento of many hereticks both ancient and latter yet you voyce your selvs catholikes and your own testimony is the best if not the onely plea you have to that title For if any other whom you hove not taught to speak give you that title it is out os ignorance or in derision as the Athenians made a decree to deine Alexander quia Alexander vult esse deus sit Deus because Alexander will be a god let him be a god The term catholike cannot be taken but in one of these two senses either properly for universall and so it is opposed to particular or improperly for orthodoxall and so it is opposed to hereticall or schismaticall When this epithere is applyed to the church it is taken in the first sense {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} supple {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} but when it is applyed to faith it is for the
of the canon law flat repugnant one to the other but others have done it to my hand and saved me this labour PAR III. Concerning the immutability of divine faith CHALLINGE This one true faith generally preached through the world was not to cease with the Apostles and their immediate hearers but was by Christs promise to continue unchanged to the worlds end For so it is said Mat. 28. 20. I am with you alway unto the end of the world Joh. 14. 26. the comforter whom the father will send in my name he shall teach you all things Answer Neither of these places commeth home to prove that which you intend viz. that the christian faith is to continue unchanged and may not by any addition or detraction be altered Why did you not produce to that purpose Rev. 22. 18 19. I testifie to every man that heareth the words of the prophesic of this book if any man shall add unto these things God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book and Gal. 1. 8 9. but though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you then that which you have received let him be accursed Upon which words S. Austin thus paraphraseth whether it be saith he concerning Christor the Church or any thing else which belongeth to faith and our life I will not say if wâ— who are not to be compared to him that said it but if an angel from heaven preach unto you any thing besides that which you have received in the scriptures of the law and the gospel let him be accursed With whom accord St. Hilary St. Cyrill St. Theophilus of Alexandria St. Basil and S. Athanasius St. Hilary I admire thee in this my lord Constantine that thou requirest of us that our faith be restrained to scriptures only S. Cyril of Jerusalem we may not determin or appoint any thing no not the least without the authority of scriptures St. Theophilus of Alexandria it comes from a diâ—ellish instinct to follow the sophisms of meâ—s wits and to conceive any thing to be divine without the authority of scriptures St. Basil the great it is a manifest falling away from faith to bring in to our christian beleef any thing that it not written And S. Athanasius what exceeding folly is it in you to speak things that are not written It is the manner of Marcion and other hereticks not to walk within the bounds of the gospel but to speak out of their private fancies and you Sabellians walking in their steps go about to pervert the unstable by speaking things that are not written But you thought fit to balk those texts of scripture with the fathers glosses upon them and deductions from them though very pertinent to prove the immutability of our christian faith because they have no good meaning to your unwritten traditions As for the two texts you here alledge of Saint Matthew and Saint Iohn they are to singular purpose but not to yours they are two deep wells of salvation out of which we may draw abundance of water of comfort for if Christ be always with us we are always sure of protection if his spirit will reach us all things we shall be sure of instruction But what is this to the imimmutability of our faith or unvariablenesse of the doctrine and sacraments of the church God was always with the chosen of Israel under the law and his spirit taught them all things needfull to salvation yet was the priesthood thereof changed and the law also and a new covenant made upon new conditions and with new promises so it might be also under the gospel if God in his word revealed in scripture had not declared the contrary namely Psal. 1104. the Lord sware and will not repent thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedeck whence the apostle inferreth Heb. 7. 24. this man because he continueth over bath an unchangeable priesthood and 1 Cor. 11. 26. as oft as ye eat this bread and drink this cup ye shall shew the death of the lord till he come that is the second time to wit to judge the quick the dead the lords supper therefore shall continue till we are bid to the marriage supper of the lamb in heaven and Apoc. 14. 6. I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven having the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth and to every nation and kindred and tongue and people if the gospel preached unto us be everlasting no new gospel shall succeed it and if no new gospel no new faith The celestiall lights often turn their shadows and give to the inhabitants of the earth divers denominations of perâ—scii amphiscii and heteroscii but with the father of lightâ— there is no shadow of change Jam. 1. 17. It was true before all time and shall be after all time when heaven and earth shall passe away when the whole world shall be changed into a second chaos and that chaos shall be re-changed into a new world ego Deus non mutor Mal. 3. 6. I am the Lord I change not As God is so it his essence and as his essence is so are his attributes and as his attributes are so is his word and as his word so is our faith grounded upon it immutable Nothing is more unsteady than the needle in a dyall or compasse shaking and quivering continually yet if it be touched with a loadstone and set to the north it resteth unmoveable in like manner though nothing be more variable and unsteady than our assent to mysteries above reason and nature yet if it be touched by the spirit and fixed to the word of God it remaineth unmoveable and the church of Christ ever holding and embracing this faith may truly use the motto of the Phoenix of her age Queen Elizabeth semper eadem always the same PARAG. IV. Concerning the propagation of the christian faith to all ages by pastors and teachers lawfully sent CHALLENGE This divine truth once established to the cud it might continne was to be derived to posteritie not by angels sent to teach particular persons nor by illuminated brethren of Amsterdam still pretending new light but by a continued succession of known visible pastours and bishops lawfully ordained and sent to preach it perpetually in despâ—ght of all new sectaries and novellers whatsoever Answer Of angels sent to particular persons since the time of the apostles and the fathers of the primitive church I read no where but in your golden Legend and for fanatick and phantastick spirits at Amsterdam if any of that mad brood still remain you well know that we build our faith no more upon these illuminated brethren of Amsterdam pretending speciall revelation than upon your inspired fathers of Rome pretending infallible direction and a kind of appropriation of the holy Ghost The differences of the two oâ—â—â—les both bragging of infallible assistance is this they are
body of Christ is in very deed and sensually handled and broken in the priests hands and ground and chewed with the teeth of the faithfull as the form of subscription enjoâ—ned to Berengarius by pope Nicholas extant in the canon law implyeth others like not of this grosse manner of eatinâ— and for Nicholas his words they put a colourable glosse upon them Some hold that mice may eat the body of Christ others doubt of it and others deny it Some hold the consecration to be made by these words Hoc est corpus meum others are of another mind 11. Touching the pope Some teach that he may err as pope and in cathedra others will by no means grant that the pope sitting in his chair may be ever beside the cushion Some teach that the pope hath power to depose kings and dispose of their kingdoms others can find no ground at all in scripture or reason for this temporall power of the pope 12. Touching coâ—â—celâ— Some hold that the councell is above the pope others that the pope is above the generall councell and both sides bring into the field pares aquilas pila minantia pilis pope against pope and councell against councell nay councell and pope against councell and pope and here you are at your wits end These and such like controversies nay speculations of far lesse moment are matters of faith when we differ from you or among our selvs about them Forsooth your determination maketh matter of faith be the question never so flight or curious your suspence makes it a neutrall point be the matter never so expedient for resolution Nor in points resolved by the church can the generall submission of the popes subjects be accounted union when as it is constrained by the strong hand of authority suppressing all contradiction rather than proceeding from any voluntary and free consent of judgements as appeareth by your clipping the tongues of Stella Ferus anâ— very many other of your own authors when they speak any thing of your errours or corruptions PAR. XI That the notes above-named are not found in the Roman church CHALLENGE All which going together and being onely found in her and not in another church do evidently prove that she alone is truly Apostolicall and consequently out of her there neither is nor can be salvation Answer When Phasis in Martial being but a peasant put himself into a rich sute of apparell and having the garb of a gentleman thrust himself amongst the gentlemen into the theater and there fell a commending the new edict of the Emperour touching the placing of all sorts of citizens according to their ranks saying tandem commodius licet sedere nunc est reddita dignitas equestris c Now we may sit without trouble now the gentry have recovered their right Before he had ended his speech in comes Lectius the Emperours officer to execute the edict and by vertue of that edict which Phasis was so highly extolling turns him out of his seat as not due to him by any title or colour save of his purple coat Istas purpureas arrogaâ—tes Jussit surgere Lectius laâ—ernas Whether Phasis his case and yours are not alike let those judge who dare look upon truth without such false spectacles as you pâ—… upon the noses of those whom you nuzell in superstition You set forth visibility and universality and unity and succession in golden and glorious colours as the proper marks of Christs true church by which marks and notes you are discovered to be none of the tâ—â—e church sorex suo indicio For as hath in part already and shall hereafter be shewed more at large if either your cause or heart will bear a second encounter popery was not visible till many hundred years after Christ when the man of sin began to be revealed universall popery was never at unity with it self it is not at this day and for the succeeding of Roman bishops it hath been such both in regard of the violent fraudulent symoniacall and schismaticall manner thereof as also in regard of the persons succeeding in that see who have been branded with the foul marks of iâ—cest and the sin not to be named and the black and hellish marks of schism heresie atheism and necromancy that if there could be a succession in hell it could not be imagined to be worse PARAG. XII Amplitude and eminent visibilitie no mark of the true Church CHALENGE To disprove us herein we require that a protestant church with these marks may be shewed to have been always extâ—â—t Answer To disprove you herein it is not requisit that a protestant church with these marks be shewed it is sufficient to shew that these are not proper and inseparable marks of the true church To â—anverse your whole discourse we need no more than to exâ—â—â—ge and rub out the false marks you have drawn of the church which may be done with a wet finger Of your â—â—itie and succession we suppose you desire to hear no more as for eminent visibilitie and uâ—iversalitie it seemeth strange that amplitude should be the mark of Christs little flock eminent visibilitie and â—ustre the character of the woman which fled into the wildernesse and there hid her self a long time If the outward conspicuousnesse of the church may not be sometime obscured and eclipsed S. Ambrose was out who compared her in this respect to the moon You your self confesse that before the days of Constantiâ—e the church was generally eclipsed and I may as certainly add that not long after the days of Constantine during the raigâ— and fury of Arriâ—â— Emperours and bishops bearing the greatest sway and occupying the chiâ—f sents in the church she was again eclipsed or rather turned into blood and yet neither the heathen nor the Arrâ—â—â— persecution by the judgement of the best learned may be compared to that {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} that last and greatest tribulation by anti-christ at which time as those of your own side confesse the publike sacrifice shall cease And as S. Austine saith expressely â—cclesia non apparebit impiâ—s ultra modum saevientibus the church shall not appâ—â—r wicked men raging and cruelly persecuting her aboue measure You see what becomes of your note of eminent visibilitie and splendour now for amplitude and multitude of professors if it were safe following it if that were the touch-stone of truth if religion must go by voices of the many the Greek church would carry it at this day from you the Mahumetans from it and the idolatrous gentiles from all For as a learned and judicious man hath exactly calculated it the christians at this day possesse neer about a sixt part of the known inhabited world the Mahumetans a fifth part and the idolatrous gentiles two thirds or little lesse so that if we divide the known regions of the world into thirty equall parts the christians part is as five the
Mahumetans as fix and the idolatrous as nineteen O lamentable estate of the world Quis talia fâ—â—dâ— temperet a lachrymis how much larger is the heard of satan than the flock of Christ if you restrain your note of universalitie to such as professe the worship of God in Christ and thereby exclude the Payniâ—â—s and Mahumâ—tans yet so it will not stead you for it is most certain that the partie of christians which oppose the papacy is incomparably the greatest in number If to the protestants in the western church you add the eastern churches professing christian faith in a great part of Europe Asia and Africa they will bear down the scale to the ground To speak nothing of the Abâ—ssinâ—â— and AEthiopians largely dispread in the kingdoms of Prâ—ster Iohn to omit the patriarch of Muscovia the archbishops of Moldâ—via and Walachia Under the Turk there are foâ—â— pâ—triarchs at this day to wit the patriarch of Constantinople of Alâ—xâ—ndria Antiochia and Ierusalem and that these patriarchs are not like some of your bishops whom Pâ—normitan fitly calls nullatenenses appeâ—rs by the catalogue of archbishops subject to the pâ—triarch of Conâ—… sâ—t down by Curopalata which are these 1. The archbishop of Casâ—rea in Câ—ppâ—dâ—cia 2. Ephesus 3. Heracleâ— 4. Aâ—… 5. 〈◊〉 6. Sardis 7. Necomedia 8. Nicea 9. Calcedon 10. Mitylene 11. Thessalonica 12. Laodicea 13. Synadae 14. Ieonium 15. Corynth 16. Athens 17. Patrae 18. Trupezuntium 19. Larissae 20. Naupactus 21. Adrianopolis These archbishops have many bishops under them the archbishop of Ephesus 2. of Moldavia 3. of Walachia 3. of Heraclea 7. of Thessalonica 9. of Corynth 10. of Athens 11. of Larissae 13. of Muscovia 17. not to over-charge your memory with more under the patriarchs All those christians besides many more of the Greek church professing Christ differ from your Roman church in many substantiall points of faith They â—cknowledge no supremacy of the Pope have no faith in his infallibility nor trust in his pardons they disclaim merits and works of supererogation purgatory transubstantiation are no articles of their faith they allow marriage of priests they cannot away with the mutilation of the sacrament by depriving the laytie of the cup they teach the perfection and sufficiencie of the scripture they have the scripture and the church lyturgie in their severall languages understood by their people The Muscâ—vits in the Muscâ—vitish the Arâ—bians in the Arabick the Georgians in the Iberick the Carmonians in the Carmanick the Colâ—hians Slavonians Grecians in their known Greek or other peculiar languages therefore it is not safe for you to put the truth of religion upon this poynt Were the rule of multitude of visible professors of religion certâ—in and infallible Miâ—hea were to be condemned and the 400. prophets of Ahaâ— to be justified Ieremy to be abandoned and all the prophets that were in Iuda and Ierusalem whom â—ose against him to be followed Nay Christ the truth it self to be traduced and reproved and the coâ—â—cell of the chief priests and elders held against him to be maintained and approved Had you lived in Athanasius his days we know where to have had you questionlesse not of his side who had all the world in a manner against him as the speech of the Arrian Emperouâ— to Liberius imports Whâ—â— a petty part art thou of the world Who art thou that â—etteâ—â— thy self against the world In S. Iohnâ— time the whole world was set on wickednesse and in Athanasius his time upâ—n heresie â—oâ—us mâ—â—dus saith S. Hierom gemuit se factâ—… Arrâ—anum the whole worlâ— grâ—aned because it became Arriaâ— What becomes now of your note of universaâ—itie To this poynt I earnestly desire particular satisfaction which I have not yeâ— received from any Româ—… catholike or universalist as they would be called PAR. XIII Where the true church was when the Roman fell CHALLENGE Or if they cannot do this as we well know they cannot let them labour to assign us another catholike church distinct from the Roman when she as they falsly suppose fell from her first truth Answer We cannot prove our true church by the false marks you have set down neither can you prove your false church by the true marks set down by us Eminent visibilitie illustrious ample unversalitie and anti-christian combination under one head the Pope are no marks as hath bin shewed of the true church And what then if we cannot prove our doctrin by them Then you say let them labour to assign us another catholike church distinct from the Roman when she as they falsly suppose fell from her first truth I have already shewed a church more ample than yours and not only distinct from your Roman but opposite to it as much as we in the most sundamentall poynt to wit the papacy yea so opposite that the first sunday in Lent when they solemnly curse all hereticks as Arrius Macedonius Eutyches Nestorius Apollinaris c. they pronounce in like manner an Anathema to the Pope But what an argument is this If you cannot prove your church by the fore-named false marks then assign us some other church distinct from the Roman in which these marks are conspicuous To passe by this your lame inference and make the best of such poor stuff as you bring out of your own words a man may pick out such an argument either the Roman church continued still the church or when she sell away some other church must be assigned which persevered in the truth else there should be no Church in the world If this be that you would say the answer to this your objection is very easie on our parts for we charge not the Latin church with defection from the true faith universally but the chief governoâ—rs and leaders thereof or to speak more fully that prevalent and predominant faction in the church of Rome that hath born sway for some hundreds of years which we say is plunged into many dangerous and pestilent errors and superstitions yet not into all errors at one leap but they sunk into them by degrees when then this faction in the Roman church which we call the papacy or the kingdom of anti-christ or the Mystery of iniquitie threw it self into an open gulf of error or heresie we say that that part of the Roman church and elsewhere which both secretly and openly impugned such error and heresie and in as much as in them lay stopt such corruptions at the entrance were the true church as for example when the fore-named faction by Boniface the third Phocas his means brought first into the church the Luciferian title and anti-christian power of oecumenicall or universall bishop and head of the whole church they in the Greek and Latin church which opposed it were the true church When the same faction by Irene and Pope Adrians means decreed the worshiping of images in the second councell of Nice those who made head against them and
this thirst but from some knowledge and fore-tast of this heavenly liquor Nemo currit ad gratiam nisi per gratiam no man followeth after grace but by the power of grace Saint Chrysostom some hundreths of yeers before Austin the monk receiv'd his commission from Gregory the great speaketh of the efficacie of the word preached the power of the christian faith in this Island And Sulpitius Severus reporteth that in the councell of Ariminum assembled An. Dom. 359. three Britain bishops were present and before this councell Athanasius makes mention of certain Britain bishops who subscribed to the councell of Sardiâ—a An. Dom. 347. And before this councell King Lucius wrote to Eleuther bishop of Rome to assist him in establishing the christian faith in his dominions which work God so blessed in his hands that Dicetus and Reade affirm that in the place of 28. heathenish priests called â—lamines and archiflamines there were substituted in his time so many bishops archbishops To go up higher yet and to come even within sight of the apostles Theodorâ—â— affirmeth that S. Paul after his first imprisonment at Rome preached the Gospel among the Britains and it is not unlikely that then he converted Pudens and Claudia his wife our countrey-woman not so much enobled by the praise of Martial Claudia câ—ruleis cum sit Ruffina Britannis Edita cur Latiâ— pectora plobis habet as by the mention of her in the sacred scriptures Eubulin saluteth thee and Pudens and Claudia Some yet ascend higher and from Gildas collect that England received the faith of Christ about the death of Tiberius What other construction can you make of these his words interea glaciali frigore rigenti Insulae velut longissime terrarum secessu soli visibili non proximae vetus ille non de firmamento solum temporali sed de summa etiam coelorum arce tempora cuncta excedente universo orbe praefulgidum sui coruscum oftendens tempore ut seimus Tyberii Caesaris summo c. By this account it should seem that Britain received the christian faith before Rome which as I will not aveâ—â— so I dare confidently affirm on the other side that Britain had a christian king before Rome had a christian Emperour residing in it neither do we ow so much to Roâ—â— for Austin the monk as Rome oweth to our nation for Constantinâ— the Emperour Neither can you blanch this your errour by restraining the name of English when you say we Englishmen were c. to those Anglo-Saxones who entred this land about or a little before Austin the monks arrivall for who taketh the word Angli or Englishmen now in that restrained sense How know you that we Englishmen now living are descended from those Anglo-Saxones rather then from the Britains or Danâ—â— or Norâ—ans who all successively inhabited this land And what if these Angli or Anglo-Saxones in Beda's time distinguished from the Picts then also inhabiting here were not first converted to the christian faith by Austin the monk I am sure Bede affirmeth that the Eastern Angli or English were firâ—â— gained to Christ by Fâ—lix the Northern by Paulinus and the middle-landers by 〈◊〉 find me ouâ— if you can a fourth sort of English first converted by Austin the monk To coâ—clude if it b◠〈◊〉 which you affirm that there is but one true divine and infallible faith professed by the church of Christ and it hath been proved that the christian faith was professed in this Iland many hundreths of yeers before Austin the monk his time it followeth that we Englishmen were â—â—t first converted by Austin to that faith and religion of which you speak without which no man can be saved but of Austin and S. Gregory more hereafter PAR. XVIII Of the faith of Gregory and Austin the monk CHALLENGE Or if c. a faith confirmed by miracle from heaven and therefore must needs be true and never noted to differ from the common received faith of Christendom in those days as appeareth by the severall epistles of the said S. Gregory to the bishops of Europe Asia and Africa with all whom he held communion of faith so as if Christ had a catholike church on earth as needs he must S. Gregory was of it and being then a true church we say holding still the same tenets it must needs be so now Gods truth being like unto him without change And therefore if 〈◊〉 angell should some from heaven to 〈◊〉 us any other 〈◊〉 thâ—â— we first received we are not to hear him the good seed being ever first sowed and the Galatians were worthily reprehended by S. Paul for not constantly retaining the first plâ—â—ted faith Answer If by S. Gregoâ—ies care and Austin the monks pains the wells of salvation which long before that time had been digged in these countries but in divers places were â—…ed up by barbarous Payâ—â—ms sworn 〈◊〉 to the crosse of Christ were any whit opened and the water cleanâ—â—â— from 〈◊〉 â—â—nish filth and superstition we blesse God and 〈◊〉 the instruments for it The miracle you speak of if any were wrought it was to confirm the common christian faith not any Râ—mish additions thereunto or superstitiâ—ns For the monk himself he stands or falls to his own master The water as S. Aâ—â—stin noteth which passeth through a leaden 〈◊〉 into a garden waters the garden and makes it fruitfull yet it produceth 〈◊〉 such good effect upon the pipe even so oft-times it falls out that the instruments of much sanctifying grace to others retain not the like measure in themselvs Somewhat it was that the British monks could not perswade themselvs that this Austin was as you say 〈◊〉 â—an 〈◊〉 from Godâ— his insolent and irrespective carriage towards them argued in their judgement that he could be no scholler of Christ the great master of humilitie And for S. Gregory himself who sent him though he were a great light and ornament of that age in which he lived yet the Latin proverb was verified even in him omnibus Punicis malis putriduÌ„ granuÌ„ inesse No pomgranat so sweet and sound in which a curious eye may not find one rotten grain Some rotten grains your own criticks have observed in him but not neer the coat there he is sound In the substantiall points of faith now in controversie between us which he had occasion to touch upon he is truely orthodox and clearly ours I will instance in many severall points and all of them of importance 1. Then for the title of oecumenicall bishop and supream head over all bishops he declaimeth against it as prophane sacrilegious perverse proud insolent anti-christian and Luciferian contrary to the Gospel contrary to the canons and what not And very ridiculous is the answer of cardinall Bellarmine hereunto in his second book de Rom. Pont. cap. 31. That universall bishop may be taken two ways either as it signifietha power and
the emperour though it were against his heart and conscience 6. For the canon of scriptures S. Gregory holds the book of Maccabees in the same rank as we do profitable to he read for the edification of the church but not to be produced as inspired by God and of infallible authority for the confirmation of any poynt of faith for being to alledge a testimony out of those books he makes way for it by this preface de qua re non inordinatè agimus si ex libris licet non canonicis sed tamen ad adificationem ecclesia editis testimonium proferamus touching which matter we do not amisse if we bring forth a testimony out of those books viz. the book of Maccabees there cited which though they are not canonicall yet they are set forth for the edification and instruction of the church 7. For adoration of images he detests it as much as we see his epistles upon record si quis imaginem facere voluerit minimè prohibe adorare vero imagines omnibus modis devita If any man will make an image forbid him not but by all means avoyd the worshipping of images Who will now be a papist when we see the Pope is become a zealous Calvinist 8. Touching merit of works S. Gregory teacheth as we do that we ought not to repose any confidence in our own merits non in fletibus non in actis nostris sed in advocati nostri allegatione confidamus let us not trust in our own weeping and bewayling of our sins nor in our own acts but in the intercession of our advocate and upon Iob si ad virtutis opus excrevero ad vitam non ex meritis sed ex venia convalesco If I grow to any work of vertue I am restored to life not by merits but by pardon I forbear to alledgemore testimonies out of S. Gregory touching this poynt because those many clear passages which I have produced out of him before against the perfection of inherent righteousnesse by a necessary consequence overthrow all merit of works also 9. Touching certainty of salvation S. Gregory conspireth with the doctrin of the reformed church for having alledged certain promises of Christ in the gospel to found it upon thus he concludes hac it aque fulti certitudine de redemptoris nostri misericordia nihil ambigere sed spe debemus indubit at a praesumere non enim muneris sui largitate frustrabitur Deus sed vires obtinendi prorsus indulget qui velle concessit nam jam ipsum desiderant oppetere donum est that is therefore being supported with this certainty we ought not to doubt c. Gregories doctrin like ours at this day is a doctrin of faith and confidence whereas the doctrin of the church of Rome at this day is a doctrin of distrâ—… of diffidence 10. Touching the power of calling synods or ecclesiasticall assemblies which you now arrogate to the Pope in S. Gregory his time as aâ—â—ay before it was in the emperours and christian princes agreeable to the tâ—â—et of the present church of England S. Gregory taketh notice of the emperour his masters command for the assembling of a synod in Rome it self juxta Christianissimi serenissiâ—i rerum domini jussionem ad beati Petri apostoli limina cum tuis sequacibus venire to volumus ut Authore Deo aggregata synodo de eaqua inter not vertitur dubâ—etate quod justum fuerit judicetur According to the command of our most christian and â—raâ—ions Lord we require thee to appear at S. Peters c. 11. Touching the definition of the church you scoff at us for â—efining the true and most proper church of Christ which we beleeve in the creed to be the whole number of Gods elect You term it an Idea Platonica or an aeÌ„reall and invisible body a Chymaera or Phantasme and yet S. Gregory describes the church as we do Christus secundum praescientiae suae gratiam sanctam ecclesiam de sanctis in aeternum permansuris extruxit Christ according to the grace of his fore-knowledge hath built on holy church of saints eternally persevering in grace and upon Ezck una ecclesia est electorum praecedentium atque sequentium There is one church of the elect going before and following after 12. Touching the blessed sacrament of the Lords Supper to be administred in both kinds it is evident that in * S. Gregories time the whole congregation consisting of the laity as well as the clergie participated of the holy cup his words are pretiost sanguinis effusione genus humanum Chrisâ—us redemit sacro-sancti vivifici corporis sui sanguinis mysterium membris suis tribuit cujus perceptione corpus suum quod est ecclesia pascitur potatur abluitur sanctificatur Christ by the effusion of his most precious blood redeemed all mankind and giveth to his members the mystory of his most holy quickning body and blood by the participation whereof his body which is the church is nourished with meat and drink and is washed and sanctified Mark I beseech you that S. Gregoryâ—ith not lib. 4. Dial. cap. 58. he giveth to his members in the participation of the sacrament his body and blood for meat and drink but the mystery of his body and blood as elsewhere he speaketh in Evang. Hom. 14. Realiter passus Christus iâ—cruce in mysterio patitur quoties ecclesia milâ—â—ns sacrâ—◠〈◊〉 celebrat hoc facit in servatoris sui comâ—â—morationem Christ having suffered really upon the crosse suffereth in a mystery as 〈◊〉 as the church celebrateth his holy supper and this she doth in remembrance of her Saviour By comparing of which places any man may perceive what S. Gregory meaneth by a mystery when he opposeth it to that which was done really I leave it to you to make the inference And now to poynt these weapons drawn out of S. Gregories armory and rub them over with the oyl of your eloquence the saith of S. Gregory was never noted to differ from the common received faith of christendom in those days as appeareth by the severall epistles of the said S. Gregory to the bishops of Europe Asia and Africa with all whom he had communion of faith so as if Christ had a catholike church on earth as needs he must S. Gregory was of it and being then a true church 〈◊〉 say holding still the same tenots it must needs be so now Gods truth being like unto him without change and therefore if an angel should câ—me from heaven to teach us any other doctrin then that which we have received from S. Gregory we are not to hear him If an angell therefore from heaven teach that the books of Maccabees are canonicall or that the Pope or any other bishop may have the stile of oecumenicall bishop or supream head over all bishops or that our best works are not imperfect or defective
if God strictly examin them or that true holinesse and sanctifying grace may be lost or that masses may be celebrated without communicants or that princes have not authority over ecclesiasticall persons or that images are to be adored or that men may merit by their works eternall life or that a child of God ought to doubt of Gods mercy and may not be assured of his salvation or that it belongeth not to princes to call ecclesiasticall assemblies or that the church in the most strict sense consisteth not of the elect only or that the whole church consisting of laity as well as clergy may not participate the mysteries of the body and blood of Christ entirely drinking of the holy cup as well as eating of the bread Let him be accursed Methinks I hear you already cry out with her in the Poet Heu patior telis vulnera facta meâ—s Oâ— with the eagle in Iulians mâ—tto feeling her self deadly wounded with an arrow feathered out of her own wing Nostris configimur alis PARAG. XIX Concerning the faith of Constantine CHALLENGE Or lastly if you desire to go neerer to the times of the apostles we will joyn with you to prove our faith in the days of Constantine the great who first built and opened christian churches and gave freedom for christians to come together and to know and publish to the world what was held by them which before could not so well be done by reason of the perfecâ—tions in which the church had been 〈◊〉 then generally eclipsed Answer From S. Gregory you step up immediately to Constantine the great and at once stride over 300 years in which time the prime and flower of the Greek and Latin fathers lived and dyed would none of them father your Church You take an oath if you be magistri in theologia to expound scripture non â—isi juxta unaâ—… câ—â—sensum patrum according to the unanimous consent of the fathers this joynt consent can very hardly be found in the interpretation of the â—…ures before Constantiâ—â—s time because few before that time commented upon the holy scripture at least whose works are come to our hands and therefore you should have especially instanced in the fathers from Constantines time to S. Gregoâ—â—s but as Festus answered Paul so think I fit to answer you Caâ—…em appellâ—…â—d Câ—sarem ibis you have appealed to Constantine and to Constantine you shall go of whom I may say truely that which the Fre 〈…〉 sometimes spake before him gloâ—ingly tu no 〈…〉 illâ—◠〈◊〉 faciâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Britains by â—â—y 〈◊〉 for though Liâ—… heâ—… not Iustus goeth about to rob us of this brouch and brightest lustre of our nation denying us the honour of his birth as you do of his faith yet I doubt not but to make good against him and you that Constantine is ours body and soul and to resolve you in point of his birth and native soyle which was this our Iland I refer you to Baronius for his faith to Eusebius Socrates Sozomen Arnobius Lactantius Minutius Foelix Athanasius Epiphanius and Greg. Nazianzen and divers others who lived in the same time or not long after him Let the faith generally beleeved and received in the age wherein this blessed Emperour lived serve as a touchstone to examine our pure and precious and your drossie and counterfeit faith and first let us begin with the ground of all faith the holy scriptures 1. We teach that the canon of the old testament consisteth of 22. books only excluding the apocryphall which your councell of Trent confoundeth with the canonicall Let the first quaere then be whether did the church in Constantines time hold with your canon or ours To this let the councell of Laodicea speak qua autem oporteat legi in authoritatem recipi haec sunt Genesis Exodus c. These books which ought to be read and received as authenticall and canonicall are these following Gen. Exod c. In which catalogue none of the apocryphall books are mentioned Let Athanasius inform us who reckons but 22. books of the old testament as we do and after him Greg. Nazian. most expresly brandeth the apocrypha with a note of bastardy {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Which Greek verses a wel-willer to your church hath translated into Latin At tua ne libris fallatur mens alienis Hunc habeas certum numerum a me lector â—â—ice Tot nempe Hebrâ—â— quot sunt elementa loquelae Quicquid pratorea est hand inter certa loc anduâ— The Greek word for word is thus to be Englished I have sâ—â— down 22. books of the old testament agreeable to the number of the Hebrew letters â—â—d 〈◊〉 â—e found any besides these â—… to be counted among the true and genuine books of the old Testament 2. We with Tertullian adore the pleâ—â—tude of scriptures aâ—â—ibing to them this perfection that they contain in them all things necessary to salvation You maintain on the contrary that the written word alone is not a sufficient and perfect rule and therefore you add unto it the unwritten word which you call cradâ—ion Which part did Constantine take and the church in his time let Athanasius be heard in this case Sufficiunt per se sacroe divinâ— us inspiratae luâ—rae ad veritatis indicationem The holy inspired scriptures are sufficient of themselvs for the declaration of the truth let â—aâ—tantiâ—â— be heard Cyprian was so ravished with the excellent knowledge of the holy scriptures that he was content with them alone upon which faith is built Let us hear Constantine himself who sitting in a golden chair as president and moderator in the first and most famous councell of Nice recommendeth the books of the old and new testament to the fathers assembled in that councell in these words the books of the evangelists and apostles and the oracles of the ancient prophets do plainly instruct us what to conceive of divine matters therefore setting aside all enmity and discord let us from the words inspired by God take the resolution of those things that are in question which most christian direction of this most noble Emperour swayed much with the fathers in that synod yet cardinall Bellarmin makes light of it and gives the Emperour a slurr for it lib. 4. de verbe Dei non scripto cap. 11. Respondeo hoc testimonium non esse tanti faciendum erat enim Constantinus magnus Imperator non magnus ecclesiae Doctor I answer that this testimony is not of so great moment for Constantine was indeed a great Emperour but not a great Doctor of the church 3. We teach that the wood of Christs crosse is not to be worshipped at all much lesse with divine worship you teach on the contrary that the crosse of Christ is to be adored cultu latria that is with the highest kind of