hate all he deceiues himselfe and others with his old fallacie à dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter And if he say their preaching cannot breed true sauing faith I pitie him BVRTON As if a Papist though neuer so simple could be humble there can be no greater pride then that which hee takes in his ignorance and can he be peaceable whose chiefe article of his Creed is to beleeue the Pope to be supreme â—uer all Kings and princes c. Answer If the thinke all Papists to bee such as he speakes of hee is not onely vncharitable but foolish Those simple and silly ignorants of which the Author speaketh both may be and 〈◊〉 humble and peaceable notwithstanding the pride and rebellion of the Po 〈…〉 orants and besides how doth their 〈◊〉 perie hinder them froâ— humilitie and peaceablenesse when their Kings and Princes themselues will haue them so to beleeue and hold BVRTON This is the beasts marke which who so receiueth shall drinke of the wine of the wrath of God Reuel 14. 9. No Papist then as a Papist can be saued Answer That the beleefe of the Popes supremacie in all spirituall things and causes is the Beasts marke is Petitio principij And that all Papists doe receiue the Beasts marke is false vnlesse hee will say none of them all are written in the Lambes booke of life A Reuel 13. 8. Which I 〈…〉 not say The Conclusion iâ— altogether without premisse 〈…〉 if hee will-conclude any thing 〈…〉 That 〈◊〉 apist can be saued and not that No Papist 〈…〉 Papistoan be saued For the Ang 〈…〉 〈…〉 No 〈…〉 marke Ergo No papist can be saued BVRTON And of Babylon saith God Come out of her my people left ye be partakers of her sinnes Reuel 18. Babylon the dominion and religion of the beast of Antichrist Nothing then therein to be expected but the punishment of Babels sinnes Answer Babylon doth not alwayes signifie the dominion and religion of the beast sometimes it is taken 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the very Citie that is the seate of his dominion the Citie of Rome and so is it to be vnderstood Reuel 18. And for the Conclusion I say the same I said of the former that it hath no premisses for all that can well be concluded is this That God calleth his people out of the â—itie of Rome when 〈◊〉 is vpon the point of destrsction that they may not bodily perish with the wicked 〈◊〉 I hope hee will noisay that Gods people may 〈…〉 ingly pelish with them though for a time they pa 〈…〉 with them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sinnes and temporall punishments as often and ordinarily they doe So much for the first question and for the first Author The second question and Author May not a simple Papist miss-led by education or long custome or ouer-valuing the soueraigntie of the Romane Church Io in the simplicitie of his heart imbracing them find mercy at Gods hands by a general repentance and faith in the merit of Christ attended with charitie and other vertues BVRTON Here the state of the former question is quite altered by Faith and Repontance no doubt not onely an ignorant Papist but euen an Infidell may finde mercy c. Answere It is not true the state it still the same for the humble 〈…〉 able obedience of the former question implyeth the Faith and Repentence required in this question for without true faith and repentance there can be no humble and peaceable obedience And so it is true which I said before that hee diuideth one question into two and maketh his Authors differ which agree in one Besides I would desire him to tell why there hee denyed humilitie and peaceable behauiour to all Papists and yet here affords them Faith Repentance to saluation To this he answereth BVRTON But withall this silly Papist beleeuing and repenting must necessarily repent him of all his Idolatry as well as of all his other sinnes yes saith the Author by a generall repentance and faith what a strange doctrine is this for a learned Doctor to teach Surely Bellarmine himselfe with the whole rabble of Pontificians could doe no more c. Answer See here how Sarcastically hee writeth of the most wholsome and Catholike doctrine of generall Faith and Repentance and of the Author for teaching it who if hee be a Doctor of the Church of England his fault is the greater for why should this be Popish doctrine in his mouth which in Perkinses is sound and orthodoxe Doth not he say plainly in his Treatise of Repentance cap. 1. § Neither is this to trouble any That as God requires particular repentance for knowne sinnes so he accepts a generall repentance for such as be vnknowne And doth he not say also in the same place That sound Repentance for one speciall sinne brings with it Repentance for all sinnes And doth hee not say elsewhere Booke of Cases lib. 1. cap. 2. Sect. 3. paragraph But some may say That The greater this simple ignorance is the lesser is the sinne and that if we be carefull to obey God according to our knowledge hauing withall a care and desire to increase in the knowledge of God and his will God will haue vs excused And is not this the selfe-same mutatis mutandis which this Author or Doctor hath deliuered If the Pope and Bellarmine and the whole rabble of Pontificians would say no worse then so it would be the best daies worke wee did these seuenty yeares to be reconciled BVRTON But doth this generall repentance include Idolatry with all popish trumpery as things to bee repented of If not such repentance shall neuer bring him to saluation Answer Wee grant all This Repentance includeth all vnknowne sinnes and so all Idolatry and all other popish trumperie BVRTON If it doe include them then by faith in Christs merits he comes to be saued not as a Papist but as a true beleeuer renouncing Popery and then no Godamercy to his popery or to his silly ignorance Answer Loc here is the vpshot of all this is his strong hold wherein hee puts his whole trust in this question And yet God knowes it is but a meere starting hole as poore a shift and euasion as euer man can vse Here then let it be obserued that hee vseth two points of Sophistry and one of Folly of Sophistry first in the word Papist secondly in the word renouncing The word Papist is ambiguous sometime it is vsed sensu composito as the Schoolemen speake or largely sometimes sensu diviso or strictly In the compound sense it signifieth to inuert the words of Perkins an vnreformed Catholike that is one that holds the same necessary heads of Religion with the Protestant Churches yet so as he retaines all errours in doctrine whereby the said religion is corrupted in the Church of Rome ignorantly supposing them to bee the truth of God In the diuided sense it fignifies one that holds the errours of the Church of
vpon your mouth and suspend BVRTON And for my part I had rather some fire-sparkling zeale yet guided with right iudgment should euen transport mee with a detestation of the Church of Rome as a false Church then that I wot not what charity without Zeale without sound iudgement should so farre possesse me as to acknowledge the Church of Rome for a true Church yea or yet for a true or truly visible Church Answer Your zeale though transporting you is guided with right iudgement your Author though Reuerend is possessed with a charity without zeale without sound iudgement of the two you preferre your owne it seemes you dwell by bad neighbours Mr. Burton Else you fall within the compasse of Catoes Hoc faciunt stulti c. BVRTON And yet vnder correction I see no such difference betweene these two but that if we yeeld the church of Rome to be a true oâ— truely visible Church we may as well call it a true Church Answere If this will giue you content we will not striue with you though it may be wee might puzzle you And for the next Section it is already answered Author Neither for the chaffe doe we leaue the floore of God neyther for the badd fishes doe wee breake his nets BVRTON Whether that floore and those nets be Antichrists onely and not Gods shall appeare more fully anone Answer Where can you tell you promise it but you neuer performe it Author All truth is Gods wheresoeuer it is found not ours as the Kings coyne is currant though it bee found in any vncleane channell BVRTON True but when the truth of God is turned into a lye and the Kings coyne beaten into a thinne leafe c. the case is altered And so it is in the Church of Rome Answer It is vntrue and contrary to the Apologies of all the Reformed Churches who stand vpon it that they haue not made an innouation or renouation but onely a reformation which could not be if all Gods truth in the Church of Rome were turned into a lye and that Gods coyne the Scripture were vtterly defaced your selfe haue acknowledged it was not so before the Councell of Trent and I haue proued that it is no worse now if so ill as it was before And if some of those Churches which yet abide in the vnitie of the Church of Rome would depart from her and embrace the truth they would doe no otherwise then the Reformed Churches haue done already Author Fundamentall truth is like the Meronean wine which if it be mixed with twenty times so much water holds its strength BVRTON The comparison is pretty if it did hold water but what if into the Maronaean wine twenty times so much poyson be put Againe take the Maronaean wine and extract the spirits out of it what is it then but a dead vappa such is that truth which is now in the Church of Romes keeping c. Answer Here his zeale transports him almost to blasphemy for it is impossible that the fundamentall truth of Gods church should eyther be so poysoned or the spirits thereof so extracted as hee affirmeth if it were otherwise the gates of hell might preuaile against it but Zanchius saith a great deale better in his Preface before his Booke De natura Dei Non potuit Satan saith hee vel in ipsae Romanâ— ecclesia quacunque voluit efficere sicut in Orientals fecer at Invite enim S 〈…〉 ecclesia illa praecipua fidei fundamenta quanquam humanis doctrinis labefactata and this he said since the Councell of Trent Now let euery wise man iudge whether Zanchius or Burton be rather to bee credited Although I cannot dissemble my dissent also from Zanchy himselfe in this point for hee yeeldeth too much in my conceit That Sathan hath effected what hee would in the Orientall Church in abolishing fundamentall truth which vnder correction I suppose to be vntrue for that Church euen to this day holdeth the fundamentall truths of Christianitie as well as the Church of Rome But it may be he speaketh of defection to Mahometry which is not the Orientall Church Author The Sepulchre of Christ was ouerwhelmed by the Pagans with earth and rubbish c. yet still there was the Sepulchre of Christ And it is a ruled case of Papiniâ—n that a sacred place loseth not the holinesse with the demolished walls No more doth the Romane Church lose the claime of a true visible Church through her manifold and deplorable corruptions BVRTON How the Church of Rome may bee proued to be a true visible Church because once it was so by this comparison I see not and how a sound Christian may edifie his faith vpon a comparison from Papinians ruled case I cannot sauour All sound Diuines know that places are not further nor longer sacred then the vse remaineth whereupon at first they began to be sacred Answer Here is much adoe to small purpose he had little to doe to spend his time in confuting similitudes which were vsed of the Reuerend Author for no other purpose then that for which they were originally ordained which is not to proue but to illustrate which if hee had shewed they doe not hee had said somewhat to the purpose but that he could not for they are as apt and fit for the purpose as can be As for edification of any mans faith vpon these or other comparisons I am sure be neueâ— intended The very point wee haue it hand is no matter of faith but of fact Iâ— places remaine sacred so farre and so long as the vse remaineth whereupon at first they beganne to be sacred it 〈◊〉 all we desire for so answerably Rome must still be a true visible Church because the couenant betweene God and her still holdeth which was the thing which first made her to be a true visible Church for it followeth Author If the Church of Rome were once the Spouse of Christ and her adulteries are knowne yet the diuorce is not sued out BVRTON Is not the diuorce sued out Perhaps not in a legall formality but what if this once spouse of Christ not only play the open whore but professeth her selfe to be the maried wife of another man Is this woman still the spouse of her former husband though shee haue not sued out a legall diuorce Thus stands the case with the Church of Rome But what if Christ the first husband come and chalenge his spouse againe seeing this second mariage was a nullity Indeed the Lord is very mercifull Ier. 3. 1 Answer Now Mr. Burton as if hee had seene the head of Medusa seemes to be depriued of his senses Is it not saith he Perhaps not But what if this Is that But what if that Indeed then c. What staggering is this It seemes this argument hath so choaked him that he cannot speake without coughing If he could he should haue done well to haue left the allegory and to haue proued in plaine termes that the Couenant betweene
THE STATE OF THE NOW-ROMANE CHVRCH Discussed By way of vindication of the Right Reuerend Father in God the Lord Bishop of EXCETER From the weake cauills of HENRY BVRTON By H. C. LONDON Printed for Nathaniel Butter 1629. TO THE RIGHT REuerend Father in GOD IOSEPH by the providence of God Lord Bishop of Exeter Grace mercy and peace be multiplied Right Reuerend and Honourable MY very good Lord It was well said of old Let Baal plead for himselfe And it may be said as wel now Let Babel plead for her self yea let him be blessed that dasheth her little ones against the stones And let it be done to her as shee hath done to others And let all the people of God say Amen Neuerthelesse herein if in any thing in the world great arte and skill is to be used For it is not for every fresh water souldier to fight against Babel The Poet saith In vitium ducil culpae fuga si caret arte And it is a true saying that God loues Aduerbs better then Adiectiues so as if a man doe good things and doe them not well hee is an offender notwithstanding so is it in this case he that will make warre against Babel and will not do more hurt then good had need to bee well prouided and aduised Plutarch makes report of one who vnaduisedly casting a stone at a dogge hit and hurt his owne mother and so many there are who ignorantly and inconsiderately contending against Babel doe grieuously wound the Church of God and as your Lordship saith truly do more wrong to their cause then to their aduersaries If any man be ignorant how this may be and bee willing to learne you haue well informed him in your last Book of the Old Religion wherin you make it plaine that though Rome bee Babel yet so long as she is Babel she shall haue a people of God in her so that as Saint Paul said They are not all Israel that are of Israel so may wee in this case They are not all Babel that are in Babel and communicate with Babel If then a man haue not a spirituall eye to distinguish betweene Babel and the people of God in Babel how much mischiefe may hee doe in quarelling with Babel I would wee had not too much experience hereof in some who make good your Lordships too just censure that Zeale transports them to such a detestation of the Romane Church as if it were all error no Church and so that no soule can be saued therein A fearfull and heauie doome of which a man may say as Saint Bernard said in another case Solo auditu contremisco I tremble at the very hearing of it Now your Lordship as a good Souldier of Iesus Christ and one of the Colonels of the spirituall Armie of the Lord of hoasts endeuouring amongst other errors to reforme this and to bring all into right and perfect order that is to traine all the souldiers vnder your regiment according to the old discipline which is to entend to cure Babel and not to destroy her before the time that it may truly be said of them as well as of others We would haue cured Babel but she would not be cured the time of curing being not past so long as it is called to day There are risen vp I know not what hot-spurres and bold Braggadochioes in the Campe who mutinouslie doe turne their weapons from Babel against you as if you were therefore become their enemy because you tell them the truth And amongst others one Master Henry Burton hath publikely taken the quarrell vpon himselfe in the name of all the rest who being otherwise a man of good parts as it should seem and hauing a good meaning to doe Gods Church some seruice yet ouerweening himselfe and forgetting his place hath giuen the common aduersary too much aduantage against vs all For being defectiue in Logick our best engine after the word of God and trusting to nothing but meer sophistry and failing in the truth or true meaning of all his allegations he hath not onely shamed himselfe but put vs all out of order hindred our good proceedings weakned our owne forces by diuision and strengthned the enemy Whereupon it being not any way conuenient that your Lordship should enter into the lists with him vpon an incident occasion of speech about this matter in the beginning of September it pleased you to accept an offer of my seruice in this businesse although vpon beare-say onely at that time and not otherwise I had notice of his misbehauiour Here therefore I tender vnto your Lordship some testimony not so much of the old innocent familiarity which almost from the cradle hath beene betweene vs as of my readiness to performe all parts of that Canonicall obedience which being due to all my Diocesans I am most joyfull to yeeld vnto you aboue and before all the men in the world Accept then I beseech you and protect this vnworthy seueÌ„ daies defence of your worthy cause protect it I say thogh not as your owne being vnworthy yet for your owne in respect of the worthie cause which is your owne And so I shall be encouraged to performe all offices not onely to my ancientest nearest dearest and greatest friend but also to my Bishop Lord and Gouernour and euer rest Your Lordships Chaplaine in all humility to be commanded Hugh Cholmeley TO M. HENRY BVRTON Rector of St. Mathewes in Fridayâ—â—â—â—â— in London H. C. Rector of the portion of Clare in the Parish of Tyverton in Devon sendeth greeting MAster Burton as you are a man I altogether vnknowne to me but onely by your writings so I am not desirous to bee your aduersary in any the least point of truth I loue you in the truth and I oppose you in loue of the truth And if you can soundly and substantially conuince me of vntruth I professe before God and the world that I will yeeld vnto you without any more adoe being already willing to bee ouercome of the truth in this cause You need not disclaime the match I suppose my selfe your equall for time studies or labour and if your desire be sincere onely to finde out the truth Loe I am as you are Passe by our Reuerend Diocesan and let me beare the brunt of this skirmish Your victory shall be great enough and your foile farre more easie and tolerable Your louing friend and fellow Labourer in the work of the LORD H. C. THE STATE OF the Now Romane CHVRCH THere can be no more euident signe of a bad cause then if it be handled falsly and sophistically for as Euripides saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The truth is sound her words are plaine Falshood is sicke she needs must faine Which being so we may soone perceiue what we are to thinke of Mr. Burtons cause who hauing taken vpon himselfe to oppose men euery way better
to which repentance is vtterly denyed Else what shall wee say of S. Peter who both denyed and cursed the knowledge of Christ in himselfe Secondly if this be true as it is then may saluation be found and hoped for notwithstanding that deâ—iall cursing and approbation Thirdly it must be remembred that our question is of the whole body of the Church that iâ— neither of the popular part onely nor of the representatiue onely but of both together if then the one part onely shall doe as he saith and not the whole body who can say that there is no saluation to bee found therein or that it is vtterly falne away from Christ. So much for the Proposition In the next place I say the Assumption is euidently false if not more then slanderous For first the Church of Rome whether partially or wholly vnderstood neuer denyed neuer accursed sauing and iustifying Faith nor euer allowed a gracelesse faith onely which cannot saue c. Looke vpon all the Canons of the Councell of Trent and see whether any such thing bee to bee found therein or gathered therefrom doth it not distinguish betweene a living and a dead faith And doth it not say that the liuing Faith only iustifieth and not the dead what is it then that it denyeth and accurseth It is this first the forme and manner of Iustification by Faith when it is said to iustifie as the very forme of Iustification and not as a meere disposition thereto Secondly this assertion that a dead faith separate from grace is not a true faith though it cannot iustifie this is that which the Counsell denyeth and accurseth in this case and no more yet you say boldly if not impudently pag. 25. If any dare deny this hee will but bewray his shamelesse ignorance in this point In what point M. Burton That the Councell of Trent admitteth of no other faith then that which the Deuils and damned in hell haue O mouth O forehead Haue they a liuing Faith which is fruitfull in good workes Such a Faith as S. â—ames commendeth And doth not the Councell admit of this Faith yea of this onely for Iustification Reade the latter part of the seuenth Chapter of the sixt Session and bee ashamed Secondly say the Counsell had done so indeed Doth the whole Church of Rome doe it Doth the popular part therof doe it By your owne words page 25. they denie it Yea but they beleeue as the Church beleeues True but with a secret condition If the Church beleeue well and in that onely wherein it beleeueth aright Being deceiued in nothing but that they trust the Church too much for if they could be perswaded shee beleeueth amisse in any thing therein they would not beleeue as she doth But you will proue that Romes iustifying faith is different in kinde from the true sauing Faith of Christ. How Can you tell Marry thus That faith which Christ commendeth for the onely true sauing faith doth so iustifie a man that hee shall neuer come into condemnation but passe from death vnto life But the onely faith which the Church of Rome alloweth doth not so Ergo Aduertisement pag. 91. I answere A Papist or Arminian would denie the Proposition but I grant it and deny the Assumption for let the Church of Rome confesse what she will in her owne wrong I say that that faith which the Church of Rome onely alloweth for iustification viz a liuing faith fruitfull in good workes doth so saue and iustifie a man that hee cannot goe with it into condemnation and dare you say the contrary This is his first Argument The second is this That Church which cleaueth to Antichrist as her head whence she receiueth all her spirituall life is no true Church nor hath any saluation to be found or hoped for in her But the Church of Rome doth so Ergo. Aduertisement pag. 91. 92. I denie the Assumption Not for that I denie the Pope to be Antichrist or for that I would support the church of Rome in any of her abominations but first because the church of Rome doth not acknowledge the Pope to be Antichrist and so cleaueth not to him as her head in that name Secondly because although some Popes haue antichristianly said that all spirituall grace and life is deriued from the Pope and that some of their Parasites haue flatteringly acknowledged it yet neither the representatiue church of Rome by it selfe nor the popular by it selfe much lesse the whole and entire body did euer yeeld vnto it but haue from time to time opposed themselues against it especially if the question be of an absolute foueraigne and supreme head and not of a subordinate and ministeriall head as you propound it Thirdly because in these spiritual things there is such a coniunction of good and euill in this life that though the one cannot be separated from the other yet the one is not confounded with the other so as each of them receiues its life seuerally from its owne head and not from the head of the other As it is in the regenerate man in whom the flesh and the spirit are alwaies companions in this life yet so as the flesh receiueth nothing from the holy Ghost nor the spirit from Adams transgression And so is it in the case wee haue in hand for in the church of Rome there is an inseparable coniunction of Babylon and the people of God yet so as Babylon receiues no grace from Christ nor the people of GOD apostafie from the Pope for being members of both in diuers respects they haue grace from the one and apostasie from the other which in them are indeed nothing but flesh and spirit And so much for his second Argument The third pag. 34. hereof is thus framed A true visible Church hath the true markes of a true visible Church But the Church of Rome hath not those true markes Ergo. The Assumption whereof being to be denyed hee proueth it partly from the doctrine of the Church of England and partly from Bellarmine the mouth of the Church of Rome For the Church of England the Homily for Whitsunday saith The true Church of Christ hath alwayes three notes or marks whereby it is knowne Pure and sound doctrine c. Now if you would compare this with the Church of Rome c. To which I answer That these words must receiue a fauourable construction or else they make as much against him as against vs and with such construction they make more for vs then for him And what is this construction First they must bee vnderstood of the accidentall truth of the Church in regard of soundnesse as the words doe expresly import and not of essentiall truth in regard of Gods Couenant Secondly they must bee vnderstood euen of soundnesse comparatiuely and not simply that is in regard of the Primitiue Church and not otherwise Else hee must grant that the Church of Rome hath not beene a true visible Church these nine hundred yeares
where as he allowes it to haue beene so till the Councell of Trent as appeareth in all this Discourse Now for Bellarmine I am sory such a superficiall Reader should meddle with him to the shame of our whole Nation Marke how hee reasoneth Bellarmine disclaimeth these three as proper markes of the Church Ergo the Church of Rome hath them not I pray what consequence is here First may not a man disclaime that which he hath for some siâ—ister respects best knowne to himselfe as pride and presumption in medling in causes and with persons too high for him and the like Secondly doth Bellarmine disclaime them simply and not onely in comparison of meere proper markes Thirdly may not the Church of Rome haue them as markes common to all Churches true and false though not as proper to the true Church Fourthly doth not Bellarmine De Eccles. lib. 3. cap. 2. § Nostra autem sententia contradicting himselfe put these three into the definition of the Church and doth hee not by them distinguish the Church from all other sorts of men whatsoeuer Professione verae fidei Sacramentorum communione subiectione ad proprium Rastorem Fiftly is it not a Maxime of Bellarmines lib. 1. de Sacrament in genere cap. 26. § Respondeo Sacramenta that the Sacraments and the word of God and the rest semper solius esse Ecclesie etiamsi interdum extra Ecclesia in inueniantur what dealing then is this to play the Sophister so palpably à dicto secundum quid ad 〈…〉 This is his third Argument The fourth you shall finde pag. 35. to this purpose If the Church of Rome cannot demonstrate it selfe to bee a true Church then it is no true Church But it cannot Ergo 〈…〉 To this many things are to be answered because both propositions are to be denyed The former because it is inconsequent First because want of demonstration takes not away the truth and true being of any thing if it did there are infinite things in the world which should haue no being or not be that which they are euen the Scripture it selfe should not be the word of God because it cannot be demonstrated so to be to a naturall man Secondly because want of ability to make demonstration especially of the parties owne being is much lesse able to doe it for how many millions of men and women are there in the world which should cease to be that they are if that were true being vtterly vnable to demonstrate themselues so to be The latter proposition is to be denyed because it is vntrue for if by demonstration you meane the proofe of those three marks mentioned in the Homily the church of Rome can by them demonstrate her selfe to be a true Church according to the kinde and proportion of truth as well as any other Church And all that will acknowledge her to bee a true Church will and must acknowledge her to haue the true markes of the true Church in the same degree of truth wherein she is acknowledged to bee a true Church But you can proue by two arguments that she cannot doe it First because Bellarmine is constrained to confesse that all his 15. markes cannot make it euidently true but onely euidently credible that it is a true Church I answer First this is not true Bellarmine saith no such thing hee hath not the word Onely but thus he speaketh Though they make it not euidently true yet doe they make it euidently credible yea hee distinguisheth betweene Heathens which admit not the Scriptures and Christians which doe and saith that to them it makes them euidently credible but to these euidently true as well as euidently credible Lib. 4. de not is Eccles. cap. 3. § Dicimus ergo This therefore is not good dealing Secondly this is the same fallacy of arguing à dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter wherein you offended afore He cannot doe it by these his fifteene markes say you Ergo he cannot doe it at all Is this a good kinde of reasoning Indeed it argueth his folly or rather madnesse in forsaking those markes which can demonstrate it and cleaning to those which cannot doe it but it doth not proue that he cannot doe it by any other meanes In the second place therefore you indeauour to proue it by Romes owne doctrine and confession about her baptisme the onely relique say you which some suppose is sufficient to proue her a true Church which is this That the efficacy of baptisme depends vpon the Priests intention whereof because no man can be certaine therefore no man can bee certaine whether hee were rightly baptised and so cannot bee certaine that he is a true member of the Church From which confession you reason thus That which no one Papist can demonstrate all of them put together cannot demonstrate But no one of them can demonstrate himselfe to be a true member of the Church Ergo not all together And what the That Church whose members either seuerally or together cannot demonstrate themselues to bee members of the true Church cannot demonstrate her selfe to be a true Church But the members of the Church of Rome neither seuerally nor together can doe it Ergo She her selfe cannot doe it That I may giue a full and sufficient answer to this large argument which is taken from Romes owne doctrine and confession I must signifie vnto him that it seemes to me that he knowes not what Romes doctrine and confession in this point is First therefore hee must know that the Church of Rome hath not yet determined fully what the intention of the Priest in baptising or of the Bishop in ordaining is They say indeed that a virtuall intention is sufficient without the actuall or habituall But what is that virtuall intention Some say that the very pronouneing of the words I baptise thee c. are sufficient thereto Nec aliud requiri ex parte ministri and that there is no more required on the behalfe of the Minister So Thomas Part. 3. de Sacr. qu. 64. art 8. ad 2. and so Catharine the Bishop of Minori in the Councell of Trent held and affirmed And Bellarmine himselfe though of the contrary opinion viz. that the inward intention of the Priest is required yet is constrained to distinguish de perfectione Sacramenti simpliciter absolutè de perfectione eiusdem coram hominibus and so agreeth that if wee respect the perfection of the Sacrament before men the outward prolation of the words is sufficient Lib. 1. de Sacr. in genere cap. 28. § Ad locum obiectum Secondly hee must know what certainty it is which the Church of Rome meaneth when she confesseth that no man can be certaine of the intention of the Priest for shee distinguisheth of certainty in this case One is certainty of faith which is infallible another humane and morall the former shee confesseth cannot ordinarily bee had but the latter may which she accounteth to be sufficient and this comes
full to Vega who denieth infallible certaintie of saluation because no man can haue infallible certainty of the truth of his baptisme for want of the like certainty of the Priests intention but on the contrary for morall and coniecturall certainty he acknowledgeth that a man may and ought to haue it of the Priests intention vnlesse hee declare his naughty minde by some outward signe and so of the truth of his baptisme and lastly of his owne saluation For which distinction see Bellarmine vbi supra § Respondeo non debere hominem These things premised his Arguments are easily answered First therefore the Assumption of the last is denied for they professe themselues able to demonstrate both seuerally and together that they are true members of the true Church because they haue sufficient certaintie of the truth of their Baptisme because they haue a like sufficient certaintie of the Priests intent on leaning secrets vnto God and so all that is builded hereon that the Church cannot demonstrate her selfe to bee a true Church falls flat to the ground which may also be said of the intention of the Bishop in ordaining Secondly how can hee proue the Assumption vnlesse he goe through all the Church of Rome from man to man and from woman to woman and examine what they can say for the truth of their Baptisme It is twenty to one but some one or other can shew a Reuelation that the Priest had an actuall intention to doe as the Church doth in baptising him Thirdly they say they can say as much to assure them of the Priests intention in their Baptisme as we which are baptised in our infancie can say to assure vs that we were baptised which is onely the Church booke and testimonie of our Parents Godfathers Godmothers and other friends which is onely humane morall coniecturall assurance and not diuine and infallible See Bellarmine vbi supra § Et Nota. So much for the fourth The last Argument pag. 32. is this That Church which wants the ordinary meanes of saluation is no true Church But the Church of Rome wants the ordinary meanes of saluation the preaching and hearing of the Gospell yea it teacheth hers to hate and abhorre it and to call it heresie Ergo. I answer they want it they want it not They hate it and they hate it not They want and hate the soundnes and puritie thereof as it is enioyed in the Reformed Churches but they neither want nor hate it as it is corrupted by their owne traditions which cannot wholly depriue it of all sauing vertue as hath been already prooued And why I pray should wee not bee content in common commiseration to beare with them in this case as we doe with those people which dwell in fenny foggy marish grounds and countries who comming into places of fresh ayre and healthy dyet doe complaine that it is not good nor wholsome because it agrees not with their more grosse constitution If another man liue by poysoned meates I will not enuie him so long as I feede on that which is sound and mans meate as wee say And so much for his Arguments Thus haue I shewed Mr. Burtons second point of disorder in misplacing his Arguments and haue as well as I can righted it and answered them The third and last followes which are his idle Repetitions and Tautologies which if they were taken out of his booke it would bee by the one halfe lesse then it is as will appeare by the answer to the particulars Now here I must craue fauor of the Christian Reader that being constrained by the misbehauiour of our aduersary to lay open his foule ouer-sights in charging the Church of Rome the Councell of Trent and Bellarmine with vntruths which hee ought not to haue done hee would not suppose me to be any whit inclining or addicted to Poperie as the manner of the world is now-a dayes No I praise God I am as farr from Popery as M. Burton himselfe is or can be But I would not haue men eyther to maintaine bad causes against the Church of Rome or to maintaine good causes with bad arguments and least of all to maintaine bad causes with worse arguments as I know too many haue done to our no little disaduantage It is an excellent point of manhood to let the enemy haue his vtmost due and not to â—eelie to ouercome him by base and cowardly meanes This I desire and haue alwayes endeoured and this is all which hitherto I haue done in this Treatise or purpose to doe hereafter And if the good Reader will be placed to beleeue mee and to grant me this reasonable motion I hope hee shall perceiue that I haue not abused either him or mine aduersary or my cause or my Lord whose cause I haue vndertaken or my selfe in vndertaking it and so I proceede BVRTON Before wee proceede to the third Viall for the fuller confirmation of what hath beene said of the estate of the church of Rome whose Sea of doctrines is all turned into mortall blood in the second viall it will bee very requisite here to discusse one question Whether the Church of Rome be eyther a true Church or a true visible Church Answer Here is a long Exordium to a short Cause of which it may truely be said Causaanceps Exordium vitiosum Such a Cause such an Exordium Such a Cup such a Couer In which containing a whole lease hee craueth fauour and attention after the manner of the Orators from three Rhetoricall arguments The qualitie of the question His owne good handling there of and The condition of his owne person The question affords him two fauourable arguments One for that it is requisite to be discussed in this place Another for that it is waightie and of great moment The necessitie of the discussion is for the fuller confirmation of that hee hath said of the Church of Rome And indeede it is very necessary that hee proue and that very substantially and soundly as hee saith in the words following That the Church of Rome is neyther a true nor a true visible Church or else all hee hath said is nor worth a rush For if it be then is not her Sea of Doctrines turned into mortall blood in this second Viall nor the Councell of Trent this Sea of mortall blood nor Chemnitius the Angell nor any thing so as hee hath said But marke here I pray his Circulation Before he proued the Church of Rome to bee no true Church because all her doctrines are mortall and now hee proues all her doctrines to be mortall because 〈◊〉 is no true Church which manner of reasoning goes for currant with him 〈◊〉 all this part of his Treatise But let that passe Now if his answers proue no better then his arguments haue done as I doubt they will not it had beene farre more requisite for him to haue left this question altogether indiscussed in this place and to haue proceeded directly to the third
Viall without any more adoe for so both hee and his followers might haue fallen into the ditch without any obseruation whereas now all the world must take notice thereof to their shame and discredit BVRTON A question of so much the greater moment by how much some by their â—o small authoritie and no lesse renowned opinion in the Church doe so sway the ballance on that side that many ill affected of the aduerse party taking the aduantage are apt to catch the word out of their mouth and to say Thy mother Church of Rome c. Answer This is the second Argument by which the Question begs him some fauouâ—â— for indeed it cannot be dâ—â—yed to be very waightie tending either to the admission or expulsion of many millions of soules eyther into or out of the Church of Christ. But both his comparatiue amplification and his Rhetoricall anticipation by the one whereof hee would breede enuy to his aduersaries not onely for oppressing the truth with their authoritie and estimation in the Church but also for giuing a perillous and vnseasonable aduantage to the Papists and popishly affected and by the other would free himselfe and his from fault I say both of these doe admit many and those very iust exceptions For first who are those some in authoritie in the Church of whom he speaketh I doubt not but hee meaneth his elect aduersaries other reuerend Fathers and Ministers of our Church who are of a contrary opinion to him But our worthy fellow and friend M. William Bedle now Rector of the Colledge and Vniuersitie of Dubline in his Letters to Waddesworth pag. 75. tels him and that in truth That this opinion is not onely fauoured of many great Scholars in England but is the common opinion of all the best Diuines of the Reformed Churches that are or haue beene in the world And it is so well known to the common Aduersaries that Brierley in his Apologie of the Romane Church Tract 1. Sect. 6. Subdivis 3. And Smith in his booke of the Author and essence of the Protestant Church and Râ—ligion Lib. 1. cap. 2. haue made whole Catalogues of them wherein you shall finde truly billed The Augustane Confession Luther Caluin Iunius Zanchius Plessaeus Bucanus Polanus Saravia Boysseul Vorstius and Martyr And of our owne King Iames Andrewes Hooker Covell Whitaker Moreton Feild Powel Reinolds White and Hall our reuerend Diocesan our ioy crowne and your meeke and sweet spirited aduersary as you truly call him pag. 52. To whom they adde by necessary consequence many more as Beza Melancthon Pappus Schusselburge Ioannes Regius Leonardus Crentremius Whitgift Lubbertus Brentius Magdeburgenses Daâ—aeus Iuel Fulk Bale Zuinglius Bucer Molinaeus Bell Mason Sadeel yea and Perkins himselfe who of all the rest seemes to be furthest off from this opinion but these they adde because they allow them the Couenant the calling of Pastors the holding of all the necessary points of the foundation and saluation it selfe which being granted the true Church cannot be denyed vnto them Loe these are the some which sway the ballance on the contrary side to you being indeed of no small authority and â—o less renownd opinion in the church And not some few in our Church of note and authority as you would insinuate Secondly who are those many ill affected and of the aduerse partie who take aduantage hereof and when did they do it you would make the world beleeue that this were a new thing occasioned by these some in authority whom you haue made your aduersaries But they are no lesse then the whole Church of Rome and that euen from our first separation from her as may appeare by the Apologies of all the reformed Churches and by Bellarmine thirteenth note of the Church de Eccles. lib. 4. cap. 16. Sect. Idem de Haereticis herein therefore you are greatly to bee blamed Thirdly what is the aduantage which they take and what is the perill thereof doubtlesse some extraordinarie thing I warrant you neuer heard of before these men gaue it in these luke-warme indifferent neutralizing dayes Thy Mother Church of Rome forsooth A perillous aduantage I promise you To acknowledge that truth in luke-warme times which was alwayes openly knowne and professed For whoeuer denyed but wee were sometimes members of that Church and with what face can it be denied of which I may well say as Saint Paul said in another case if it be perilous it is perilous to them that perish in whom the god of this world hath blinded their eyes that they should beleeue lyes because they neuer entertained the truth in loue and if to them it bee perilous let it be perilous their blood be vpon their owne heads If we testifying our loue and good opinion of them in the bowells of Christ Iesus they turne it to their owne perdition wee are not vnder bondage in this case But if any aduantage be to be taken in this respect vndoubtedly saith worthy Bedel vbi supra we haue it of them and not they of vs in that what we doe we doe it of charity but they of ignorance or malice or both BVRTON Popery hath learned to get ouer the stile againe fast enough without our helpe Answer Master Burton do we helpe Popery as it were an old dogge ouer the stile againe in acknowledging this truth No this is Non causa pro causa If this would haue helped the stile had neuer beene made that which helpeth it ouer is the iust iudgement of God for our sinnes and especially for the contempt of the sincere truth of the Gospell and not the maintaining of any truth let vs truly repent of them and I dare be bold to say in the name of God that This shall neuer helpe Popery more either now or hereafter then it hath done alwaies heretofore BVRTON Though it were true that the church of Rome were a true Church yet the countenancing or pressing of it in these times might very well be spared Answer Indeed you are the onely religious Politician of these times and know better what is to bee done in these cases then they that sit at the sterne There is no man so senslesse I suppose but he knowes that all truths are not either to be published vrged or countenanced at all times There is a time for all things saith Salomon A time to keepe silence and a time to speake But when these times are it were farre better for you and me and all priuate persons to leaue to the wisedome of our Gouernours then to prescribe any thing to them therein But now a dayes all men will be Priuy Councellors and he is a very dolt that cannot gouern the whole State Church and Kingdome far better then now it is gouerned So much for the amplification BVRTON But why then say they doe others cry downe the Church of Rome for no true Church at all 〈◊〉 Surely this was a fault if it were an vntruth For giue the deuill
his due as we say It is good therefore that all men be well aduised in this point in speaking of the Church of Rome Pro or contra as a true church or no it being a matter not to be maintained by finenesse of wit or quaint rhetoricall discourse but vpon sound ground substantiall demonstration Answer This is your anticipation wherein you answer a supposed obiection therby to free your selfe from fault in crying downe the truth and true visibility of the Church of Rome It is no fault say you because it is no vntruth But you know that is the question And besides haue you so soone forgotten your owne policy That though it were true yet the countenancing or pressing of it in these times might very well bee spared Can you imagine that in these lukewarme indifferent neutralizing dayes you shall not find enow that will take vp the bucklers against you will you giue the onset and bee faultlesse and shall they only that oppose you be the offenders there is no reason at all for that In a mutiny it is hard but both sides will bee found faulty well then Let the Deuill haue his due say you and so say I too yet it is good say you that all men be well aduised in this point c. Let this word stand Only I craue that it may not be taken for granted which you rhetorically beg of your friends that you haue the sound grounds and substantiall demonstrations and that wee haue nothing but finenesse of wit and quaint rhetoricall discourses and vpon these termes let the cause bee determined And so much for the quality of the question BVRTON Now for the more cleare and full yet briefe discussion of the point it shall suffice onely to answer such arguments as are vsed for it whereupon the positiue truth will easily be concluded Answer Now you come to the second argument of your Exordium by which you scrape acquaintance with your Readers which is a promise to handle this question well that is clearly fully and briefly to which end you thinke it sufficient to answer such arguments as are vsed against you But how you offend herein I haue shewed already BVRTON Wherein I must craue pardon hauing to deale in so weighty a cause and with such mighty Authors as haue already tanquam e Cathedra defined it But God forbid that the try all of truth should depend vpon the opinion of any mans person though neuer so great or esteemed in the opinion of the learned My brethren saith Saint Iames haue not the faith of our Lord Iesus Christ the Lord of glory with respect of persons And 〈…〉 Saint Augustine against Maximinus an Arrian Bishop said Nec â—u mihi Ariminense nec ego tibi Nicenum Concilium objiciam c. Answer This is the third argument taken from the condition of your person being so weake and vnworthy to deale in such a cause and with such Authors wherein first you craue pardon of your boldnes and after cleare your selfe of such imputations as may be laid to your charge For the former it is counted the part of an vnwise man to craue pardon of a fault when it is in his owne power not to offend If it bee a fault why would you runne into it if it be none why do you craue pardon But indeed it cannot be denied to be a great fault for any man to meddle in matters too high and with persons too great for him if Dauid Psalm 131. 1. and Siracides Ecclus 8. 1. say true For as Pyâ—â—acus counselled his friend in the case of mariage to doe as the â—â—ies playing w th top scourge said one to another 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tâ— tibi su 〈…〉 rem Take to thy selfe thy peere 〈…〉 is it good 〈◊〉 euery man to contend with his match and not to meddle with his betters vnlesse he will befoole himselfe in the end But it is the triall of truth you say and God forbid that should depend vpon the opinion of any mans person True But first a man must be sure of a warrant for his doing for euery man may not contend with his betters in triall of truth vpon his owne head Secondly he must not behaue himselfe laweâ—ly as you do here saying they haue defined the contrary tanquam è Cathedra Else it may fall out as you say to the Papists pag. 24. that God forbid will not serue the turne neither will S. Iames who would not haue many mast 〈…〉 s speake for you nor Saint Augustine who contended with his fellow Bishop plead for you And so much for your petition BVRTON Nor let any man here impute presumption to the weakness or vnworthinesse of my person as though I tooke a pride to bee 〈…〉 edling with such high matters and wherein great ones are interessed Alas God knowes I take so little pride herein c. Answer Come wee now to your purgation wherein you cleare your selfe of pride and presumption by way of anticipation Some man perhaps would say Vbi dolor ibi digitus and that where men are guilty of greatest weaknesse there they make greatest preparation and that when a man cleares himselfe without an accuser Aliquid latet quod non patet But seeing you call God to witnes I had rather beleeue you then suspect you yet giue me leaue to tell you what I could say against you if I were disposed notwithstanding all you can say for your selfe to the contrary First Dauid vbi supra makes it an infallible note of pride to be exercised in matters and with persons of this quality Secondly many passages in this your second Viall to goe no further do send forth a ranke sauor of some such thing as first those words Though it were true that the Church of Rome were a true Church yet the countenanting or pressing it in these times might very well bee spared which are very high So those It is good for all men to be well aduised in this point it being a matter not to be maintained by finenesse of wit c. wherein you couertly praise your selfe and dispraise your aduersaries intollerably So those I must craue pardon hauing to deale with such Authors as haue already tanquam 〈◊〉 Cathedra defined the cause Insolent words Then those Cucullus non facit Monachum which is as much as if you had said A Rochet makes not a Bishop And those What a strange doctrine is this for a learned Doctor and more then so of the Church of England to teach Doth he not deserue to be the Popes white sonne for it which are words of reproach Finally those Now let the Reuerend Author iudge indifferentlie hauing well waighed the former reasons whether wee doe ill or no in taking this his saying ill or whether wee had not reason to haue expected an ingenuous Palinodie or Augustine like retraction rather then such an Apologie which whether it be rather to bee pitied then any vncharitablenesse in the
reader in taking such a saying ill let iudicious charity it selfe iudge where may a man finde pride if here bee none yet for all this you professe many things to the contrary as first that BVRTON My heart is euen torne in sunder to see the rufull rents of the Church of God and the truth so opposed so oppressed Answer But Ieremie tells you the heart is deceitfull aboue measure and the learned say that it is not so deceitfull in any thing as in pride in so much as if it were possible to be without pride yet would it be proud that it is not proud and so euen while your heart is torne in sunder with sorrow you may be proud in exercising your selfe in things and with persons that be too high notwithstanding BVRTON And when Gods glory suffers pardon mee if I professe my selfe a poore defendent Answer What without a calling might not Vzza put forth his hand to stay the shaking of the Arke and may you doe it But wherein I pray doth Gods glorie suffer any thing in our case Is it any dishonour to God to be faithfull in keeping his couenant for euer euen with his enemies Is not this the highest point of his glorie wherein of all the rest he most glorieth O Master Burton pretend not the glorie of God against the glory of God there is nothing more easie more vsuall more dangerous BVRTON Yea my profession not onely as a Christian but much more as a Minister of the Gospel bindes me to it Answere Then let all Christendome goe together by the eares and let Ministers bee the Ring-leaders and Boutefewes BVRTON And I know that God regardeth no mans person Answer True But he will haue all men to be sure of a warrant for their doings BVRTON And as the prouerbe is Cucullus non facit Monachum Answere Neither doth the wearing of a Lions skin make a Lyon BVRTON And were it not a matter so nearly concerning the glory of God and the saluation of Mens soules I had far rather sit mee downe in safe and sweet silence wherein I should haue the more opportunitie to pray for the peace of Ierusalem then any way stand vp to contend Answere Indeede this is the thing which of all other you had most need to purge your selfe of This contentious humor which some say is predominant in you for if Salomon say true a man so qualified must needes bee presumptuous And how doe you doe it You pretend againe the glory of God But you haue heard that that may be but a colour Next the saluation of mens soules But how can that be when you damne all Papists to the Deuill Thirdly your choise of priuate retirednesse But that is questionable Lastly your deuotion But Quid verba audiam cum facta vidiam BVRTON But it is Gods quarrell and that against Babylon Answer First let that be proued then let God bee a God of order and not of confusion BVRTON Peace is beautifull indeed but there is a what peace In which regard Christ the Prince of peace said I came not to send peace into the earth but a sword As faire as peace is wee must not make an Idoll of it we must keepe Christs peace Answer God forbid else But we must know then of what spirit we are Wee haue had late experience of the too 〈◊〉 desire of many forward spirits to breake our peace and to vnsheathe the sword but I cannot be perswaded that eyther this is Christs sword oâ— that that was not Christs pâ—â—be BVRTON And in these perillous dayes it being almost as dangerous to bee ignorant of the mystery of iniquitie as of the mystery of Godlinesse let no man thinke it labour superfluous or presumptuous to search out the true mysterie of Popery Answer You say well But first you must not doe it like Skogan as well where it is not as whereâ—â— is Then you must not doe it so that you take away all the mystery thereof at one blow by denying the Romane Church to bee a true or true visible Church of Christ â—or where then is any mysterie Is there any mysterie in Iudaisme â—urcisme or Paganisme BVRTON But I say in this 〈◊〉 kinde of 〈…〉 vpon 〈◊〉 Answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est Necessitie with a great N. hath imposed this task vpon you and woe be to you if you do it not If you had said so much a first it had beene enough This is that I expected all this while but I hope I shall make it appeare that this Necessitie was neuer of Gods imposition And so much for your Preface Let vs now examine your sound and substantiall Answers But here I must admonish the Reader that he dealeth with three seuerall Authors with two hee contendeth very briefly and with a kinde of neglect about saluation in the Church of Rome with the third being a Reuerend Antistes of the Church of England hee findeth himselfe more to do that as I suppose because a kinde of Necessity hath imposed this taske vpon him BVRTON The first maine Argument which would conclude the Church of Rome to be a true Church is because say they a man in that Church may be saued for out of the Church no saluation Therefore the Church of Rome must be a true Church Answer These words as should seeme by the words say they are common to both the former Authors who if they haue framed their maine argument no better are worthy to be blamed vnlesse it were done popularly without suspition of opposition as it may very well bee supposed The argument is this Out of the true Church of Christ there is no saluation In the Church of Rome there is saluation Ergo The Church of Rome is not out of the true Church of Christ. BVRTON Who are they that may bee saued in the Church of Rome My Author expresseth An bonest ignorant Papist or some ignorant silly soules c. yea and this is deliuered in the name of our Church or at least of all those that being affected to the Church of Rome in some good measure would seeme to bee the Church of England Answer Whether you deale well with your Authors or no I know not for you do not seuer them so wel as you should and indeed wee shall finde in the end that you might well haue ioyned them together as one man for any disagreement that can be found between them It seemes here you haue to doe with one onely for I must goe by guesse not knowing wel what to make of your answer you seeme to deny the Assumption of the Argument by demanding who may bee saued in the Church of Rome and then bring in your author answering in the name of the Church of England and indeed taking the words you haue related in a good sense as I doubt not but the Author meant them and not as you misconstrue them they may well be deliuered not onely in the name of our Church but of all the
BVRTON And for the essentiall principles of Christianity the Iewes at this day hold the Old Testament and if it bee said They deny Christ expressely the Papists doe so too implicitely and by their owne expresse doctrines of Trent haue no more communion with Christ then the Iewes haue Nay Papists doe expresly abiure the doctrine of Christ as wee shewed before in the Popes owne Bull. Answer The tongue that lyeth slayeth the soule Such comparisons are not onely odious but damnable If this zeale do not transport you to sinne I doubt not but euill-speakers raylers and slanderers may finde an easie passage into the kingdome of heauen Author Grant the Romanists to be but Christians how corrupt soeuer and wee cannot deny them the name of a Church BVRTON But why should we grant them that which neuer a Papist is able to demonstrate to vs or yet vndoubtedly to perswade himselfe of Answer This fond conceit is sufficiently answered already BVRTON Although for the bare name of Christians and of a Church wee will not much stand with them so they do not hereupon or any for them incroach and challenge the beeing and realitie yea or the very visibility of a true Church Answer You are very liberall of that which is none of your owne Can you bee content to afford the precious name of a Christian and of a Church of Christ to them which in mans iudgement not partially affected are not so The Iews would neuer doe it neither will the Papists doe it neither will the Reformed Churches doe it neither will any well informed Christian doe it But you will not much stand vpon it Author We are all the same Church by vertue of our outward vocation whosoeuer all the world ouer worship Iesus Christ the onely Sonne of God the Sauiour of the world and professe the same common Creed BVRTON Doth the Church of Rome worship Iesus Christ who for Christ worship the Beast and his Image bearing his mark Answer Doe all in the Church of Rome doe so what they whose names are written in the Lambs booke of life Reu. 13. 8. or are you sure that none of the Church of Rome liuing and dying professed members thereof are written therein BVRTON Doc they hold the same Creed that deny the faith without which they cannot say the first words of the Creed I beleeue in God Answer And dare you say that all and euery one in the Church of Rome doth so Author Rome doth both hold the foundation and destroy it she holds it directly destroyes it by consequent BVRTON What foundation doe they hold directly with vs wee shewed before that they haue nothing of Christ but the shell the shadow the Pope is the kernell if any Answer You said so indeed but you shewed it not yet if they haue the shell that is the outward profession of the foundation directly it is enough to make them be said to hold the foundation directly BVRTON Nay doe they hâ—ld more of Christ directly then the very society of Deuils doe yea or so much as they Answer They doe if your selfe say true for you say that To hold the foundation directly is to hold Iesus Christ so to be come in the slesh as therein to suffer and satisfie for our saluation becomming our Christ our Iesus redeeming vs from our sinnes by imputing his merits to vs that our sins might not be imputed to vs which were imputed to him by whose stripes wee are healed by whose righteousnesse imputed wee are perfectly iustified in the sight of God And all and euery point of this the Church of Rome directly holdeth BVRTON Nothing lesse yea she directly not by consequence onely directly I say shee denieth and destroyeth this foundation How and where in the Councell of Trent Sess. 6. Can. 10. Siquis dixerit homines per ipsam Christi iustitiam formaliter iustos esse Anathema sit Is not this a direct and flat expresse denyall of the foundation Answer Is this an expresse flat and direct denial of the foundatioÌ„ then Melancthon Caluin Illyricus and all sound and good Protestants doe expresly flatly and directly deny the Foundation for all of them doe and must hold this doctrine for accursed and all the Ministers of the Church of England haue cause to be ashamed of your ignorance boldnesse Mr. Burton who dare challenge the Church of Rome to denie the foundation directly in that wherein she holdeth and confirmeth the truth of the Gospel you must know therefore that in these words is condemned the damnable doctrine of Andrew Osiander and his followers who taught and held that a man is formally iustified by the very Righteousnesse by which Christ himselfe is essentially iust and righteous being partakers thereof by inhabitation This allegation therefore is a notable abuse not only of the Councel but of your selfe and the Reader See Bellarmine de Iustif. lib. 2. cap. 2. Sect. 2. His verbis though himselfe offend therein also afterwards BVRTON And in the 11th Canon If any shall say that men are iustified by the sole imputation of Christs righteousness or by sole remission of sins otherwise then by inherent righteousnesse by vs obtained thereby or also that the grace of God whereby wee are iustified is onely the fauour of God let him bee accursed What more direct deniall of the foundation Answer I might here challenge you for altering and changing the words of the Councell but I will not take all aduantages I answer therefore that it seems you know not the true meaning of the Councell for taking the word Iustification in the Councels owne sense this Canon containes very sound and Christian doctrine What then doth it mean by Iustification A compound of Protestant Iustification and Sanctification for so it defines Iustification cap. 7. of this Session in the first words Iustificatia est non sola peccatorum remissio sed sanctificatio renouatio interioris hominis per voluntariam susceptionem gratiae donorum and so the true sense and meaning of the Canon is this If any man shall say that men are so iustified by the sole imputation of Christs righteousnesse or by sole remission of sinnes that they are also sanctified thereby without inherent grace and charity or also that the grace whereby wee are so iustified is onely the fauour of God Let him bee accursed and let him be so indeed for me You will say this is nothing but meere iugling I grant it but it is not direct denyall of the foundation for here as Chemnitius acknowledgeth is both remission of sinnes and imputation of Christs righteousnesse included which though it be sufficient to iustification in the Protestant sense yet in the popish sense wherein sanctification is also required it is not sufficient BVRTON Is not this the foundation That Iesus Christ came into the world to saue sinners and how who his owne selfe bare our sinnes in his owne bodie on the tree that we being dead to sins should liue
vnto righteousnesse by whose stripes we are healed Nay saith the Councell of Trent directly wee are iustified by our inherent righteousness and so our stripes are healed and not by the righteousnesse of Christ simply imputed Thefore come out of her my people Answer How the Councell is to bee vnderstood I haue shewed already and being so vnderstood there is no direct denyall of the foundation Therefore although Gods people must come out of Babylon yet not vpon this ground And so I conclude as I beganne Apply Iohn Barber and thou shalt haue a new payre of sizors For marke the argument The foundation is Iesus Christ came to saue sinners c. But the Councel of Trent saith We are so iustified that wee are also sanctified by inherent righteousnesse Ergo Come out of her my people Author Thus I wrote well neare twenty yeares agone without clamour without censure If any of you be otherwise minded I dare boldly say hee shall doe more wrong to his cause then to his aduersary I differ not from the iudgement of our best Orthodoxe and approuedly Classicall Diuines BVRTON Let not antiquity in the holding of an opinion prescribe against truth Opinions Ancient O that S. Ambrose his words alledged by our Reuerend Author might here take place Nullus pud or est ad meliora transire then I hope he will be otherwise minded then to say He that denyeth the Church of Rome to be a true Church or a true visible Church shall doe more wrong to his cause then to his aduersarie Then he will no longer stand vpon the iudgement of particular persons in a point wherein our Reuerend Mother Church of England hath in her publique doctrine resolued the contrary So shall our diuine Seneca partake also of great Saint Augustines praise while by an humble and ingenuous Retractation he shall both purge away the staine and put a more glorious lustre to his most sweet pious and for their kinde vnparalleld workes And for me a poore vnworthy Minister I hope his meeke and sweet spirit hauing well weighed my reasons and pitied my weaknesses will be pleased to excuse me of any transportation of zeale vnlesse herein I haue exceeded the bounds in presuming so farre vpon the patience of such a Reuerend Antistes of our Church But I trust he will not impute this to any arrogancy of spirit when it shall appeare it is to vindicate Christs truth and glorie against the Synagogue of the proud Antichrist Answer It is well obserued that this fellow hath a notable dexterity in dedicating Epistles before his Bookes and in Prefaces Digressions Epilogues and the like but that in his Tracts Discourses and Disputations he is as hungry and dry as Famine it selfe This as it is true in all his writings so especially in this as I hope I haue in good measure made it appeare by the premisses And for this his conclusion All the glozing thereof â—ends to obtaine two requests One that the Reuerend Author would be brought to humble himselfe to him in an ingenuous Retractation And the other that he would hold him excused for his presumption Both are vnreasonable vnlesse hee will take that for a Retractation which before hath beene tendred and for an excuse that he supposeth it ignorant arrogance rather then zeale that hath transported him He would strike an impression into the innocent soule of the Reuerend Author that he hath contracted some stain by this assertion That the Church of Rome is a true or truly visible Church And indeed it is too well knowne that such companions as he is haue for a long time taken vpon them to bee the Censors of all mens doings and to cry vp and downe euery mans credit and reputation at their pleasure But God bee praised he is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 out of their gunshot for it is well knowne to God and man that all his courses from the cradle haue beene such that Fame her selfe may lay her hand vpon her mouth so as he need not endeauor to purge away any staine which they shall impute vnto him The close of his Aduertisement will so possesse the soules of all good and honest men that the strife of tongues shall neuer bee able to molest him Thus saith he in a desire to stand but so right as I am in all honest iudgments I haue made this speedy and true Apology beseeching all Readers in the feare of God before whose barre we shall once giue an account of all our ouerlashings to iudge wisely and vprightly of what I haue written In a word to do me but iustice in their opinions and when I beg it fauour FINIS Iudg. 6. 31. Psalme 137. 9. Reuel 18. 6. The want of skill to shun a shame Doth bring a man to mickle blame Reuel 18. 4. Rom. 9. 6. Ier. 51. 45. Heb. 3. 13. Gal. 4 16. * See the 7. Chap. of the same Sess.
Rome without respect to the orthodoxe truth maintained therein Now to apply this to our purpose when wee say a papist may bee saued wee vnderstand it in the former more large sense And when the saith a papist cannot be faued he vnderstands it in the latter and more strict sense and so we are all agreed for as a theefe or a murderer or any other malefactor cannot be saued as he is such a one no more can a Papist as hee holdeth his errours for no vncleane thing shall enter into the kingdome of heauen this is the former point of his sophistrie The other is in the word renouncing For there are two kindes of renouncing One actuall and expresse another virtuall and infolded The actuall is when a man doth both in word and practice separate himselfe from the religion of the Church of Rome The virtuall is when in preparation of minde a man is ready to doc it so soone as it shall appeare to him to be sinfull and damnable when therefore he requireth that a Papist that must be saued should renounce his popery if he vnderstand the actuall renouncing thereof we acknowledge that it is necessary so soone as hee shall know and be conuicted of the euill of Popery but if he neuer be conuicted thereof so long as he liueth then we say the virtuall is sufficient which is included in generall repentance otherwise wee must confound sinnes knowne with vnknowne and generall repentance with particular This being considered a man may easily perceiue how a simple ignorant Papist whether learned or vnlearned may bee said to renounce his poperie and to be saued though he liue and die in the communion of that faith and religion So much for Sophistry Now his folly appeareth in this that he would haue us to hold that a Papist which we say may be iaued by a generall faith and repentance is saued as a Papist by vertue of his Popish ignorance idolatry and other trumpery and not as a true beleeuer by faith in Christs merits And that wee would haue some Godamercy to be giuen to Popery or silly ignorance for his saluation which ought to be so farre from the conceit of any well disposed Christian that all of vs must acknowledge that no Protestant as a Protestant communicating with the corruptions of seuerall Churches Dutch French Germane or the rest none of which are free from some enormities No Protestant I say as a Protestant can bee saued without this generall faith and repentance so as there can be no God amercy giuen to our Protestancy but onely to faith in Christs merits by which we come to be saued not as Protestants but as true beleeuers renouncing the corruptions of seuerall Churches And so a Protestant liuing and dying a Protestant may bee damned and a Papist liuing and dying a Papist may be saued BVRTON My conclusion is to be briefe No Papist as a Papist whether learned or ignorant can be saued My reason is because Popery denyeth the sauing faith of Christ and they want the meanes of faith therefore if they bee saued it must be extraordinarily c. Answere All this which followeth in this Section is nothing but an idle repetition of those things which haue beene formerly vrged and answered at large and therefore with reference thereto I pass it ouer The same also I say to the next wherein he takes it for granted that he speakes the truth and that his aduersaries do diuorce themselues from sound iudgement and right reason and haue no right charity but such as calleth euill good Because they say It is an hard sentence yea malicious and rash to say That in the Church of Rome there is no saluation All which I leaue to the discretion of the Reader So much for the two questions and the two former Authors BVRTON But others would not have it denyed that the Church of Rome is a true visible Church though not a true beleeuing Church Answer Hauing rid his hands of his two former Authors with a kinde of neglect as I said afore hee comes now to his meeke and sweet spirited Author a Reuerend Antistes of the Church of England our diuine Seneca c. against whom he bends all his forces and yet like Iudas as you see betrayeth him with kissing May not I say to him as Horace to Lydia in another case Lydia dic per omnes Te deos oro Sybarim cur properas amande Perdere So Burton for Gods sake tell me I thee pray Why thou so louingly dost Exon flay I acknowledge my poetry may bee blamed but the conceit may bee prety and tolerable though I say it my selfe for to say the truth he laboureth to kill him with kindnesse in that as much as in him lyeth hee blemisheth his well deserued Reuerend and Honorable name in the Church with his flattering opposition But he must be pardoned for he hath done it to the glory of God and the confusion of Babylon which if it might proue to be true I dare bee bold to say his Author would not only be ready to make an humble and ingenuous palinody or retractation as he sawcily requireth but euen to sacrifice his goods good name soule and body for euer But I doubt hee hath done Gods glory more hurt and Babylon more good then any Babylonian Papist hath done these many yeares Author That which Laertius speakes of Menodemus that in disputing his very eyes would sparkle is true of many of ours whose zeale transports them to such a detestation of the Romane Church as if it were all errour no Church affecting nothing more then an vtter opposition to their doctrine and ceremonies because theirs BVRTON What if we should deny this that the Church of Rome is a true visible Church Must we at the first dash be censured as men transported with zeale out of the detestation of the Church of Rome as if it were all error no Church c Answer How are you not ashamed to abuse your Reuerend Author doth hee censure all of them that deny the Church of Rome to be a true visible Church in this sort and manner are not his expresse words that it is true of many of them not of all Master Burton this dealing beseemes not one that contends for the glory of God and confusion of Babylon In my conscience no truly religious wise man will deny but many of them doe well deserue this censure and you for one BVRTON Because theirs that 's not it but because wholly Antichristian therefore we detest the whore Answer Is not that it M. Burton why then said you before in the depth of your policy that though it were true that the Church of Rome were a true Church yet the countenancing or pressing of it in these times might very well be spared haue you so soone forgotten your selfe and are the doctrine and ceremonies of that Church wholly Antichristian when you haue proued it say so but till then lay your hand