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truth_n	church_n	error_n	faith_n	4,873	5	5.2360	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B04528	The lavvfulnes of hearing the publick ministers of the Church of England proved, by Mr. Philip Nye and Mr. John Robinson, two eminent Congregational divines. Together with the judgment of Dr. Goodwin, Dr. Owen, and other independents, as well ancient as modern, concerning forms of prayer, parish-churches, and communion with them: and the judgment of other nonconformists about kneeling at the sacrament.	Nye, Philip, 1596?-1672.; Robinson, John, 1575?-1625.	1683 (1683)	Wing N1496; ESTC R203023	37,350	46

for encouraging of such as shall be sent out to the several parts of the Nation in this great Work 2. There is a sum of Doctrinal Truths which in the Enlargement and Application are sufficient both for Conversion and Edification to which the Preachers are to assent and there is provision made by our Laws that such Persons only who are sound in the Faith be imployed therein 3. The Inhabitants of this Nation are required to be present and to give attendance to Instruction that they may Learn the Fear of the Lord. Assertion These things being so although some of us do enjoy the Instruction of our Pastors being in a Church-Relation yet it is a Duty that we and our Families frequent also as we have Liberty and Opportunity the more Publick and National Ministry for these Reasons Reason 1. Where the Lord hath appointed various Ways and Methods in which he will draw near to us and manifest himself we ought to make use of all in their place and season This is a several and distinct way or appointment of God not only in respect of God's Works and our Consciences but also in respect of the teachings of Church Officers as appears in these Particulars 1. The one is Cultus Naturalis from the first Commandment directed by the Light of Nature and the other is Cultus Institutus and a Duty of the second Commandment and our direction herein is only from Gospel Light 2. In respect of the Persons that are the primary Object of each Prophesying that is Church-Preaching serveth not for them that believe not but for them which believe It is principally for building for a Church-State supposeth them Believers though such preaching hath occasionally its efficacy in converting the Weak and more directly in relation to the Children of Members This National or Providential Preaching is principally for Conversion and hath for its primary and main Object Persons in their natural Condition such a Preacher was Noah 2 Pet. 2.5 1 Pet. 4.6 Mat. 16.3 Preaching is before Believing and Believing before any Church-Ordinance There were Preachers in all Nations and in every City before there were Churches in every City 3. The one is from Gifts only as necessarily requisite but Church-Instruction supposeth the Person to be not only of some eminency in Gifts but Grace also and set apart to Office according to Christ's appointment And now having seen the difference of these two Methods the Consequence will follow they ought to be attended with due reverence each of them Reason 2. As we are Members of Churches so we are Subjects and Members of this Common-Wealth and are obliged thereby to observe the lawful Command of our Governors and to be Examples therein to others As Members also of this Civil Body we ought to join with it in a thankful acknowledging this happy Providence of God by which we and our Children after us may be instructed which may be a means to have it continued and a neglect thereof would give just cause to fear the contrary Reason 3. If Church-Members or any one Godly Man hath a Warrant to forbear hearing such Ministers upon this account of unlawfulness then all Godly Men ought at all times so to do and if so the Examples of the Godly to the generality being very leading in the Matters of God this Ordinance thereby will be little frequented and of less efficacy to those that do come to it And by asserting it unlawful to hear such Ministers we imply it were better for the Nation there were no preaching but in particular Churches and if so what can we expect will become of many thousands in an ordinary way of Salvation that have no benefit at all by our Church-Instructions We are to walk wisely yea mercifully towards them that are without Objections Answered Object 1. Where there is no true Church there can be no true Ministry the Church of England is no true Church Ergo c. Answer There may be a Lawful and True Ministry or Administration of the saving Truths of God though the Nation or any parcels of it as yet be in no Church-State We say each particular Church materially considered is part of the Church Catholick The Matter must needs have being before the Form can be introduced No Man becomes a Member of the Catholick Church but by his effectual Calling and that is by preaching the Word I conclude therefore each particular Church to have its production from such an Administration and not this Ministry to have its original or state from the Church Object 2. The National Ministry is Antichristian derived from Rome Answer If Antichristian it 's either so from their Standing as deriving their Ordination thence of which in the third Consideration or from their Doctrine If any such Doctrine be preached it 's the miscarriage of particular Persons and contrary to the National Provision The Articles of Religion to which the Ministers are to conform their Instructions are Orthodox framed for the casting and keeping out of Popery Object 3. It offends our weak Brethren it is a complying with the Corruption of the Times it 's an approbation and encouragement to Conformity Answer These and other Objections of the like nature have their weight and place in practice when the matter is indifferent and may be done or left undone without Sin and not in relation to any moral Duty Though I know gathering of Churches in a Congregational way preaching without Ordination Baptizing of Infants and the like as well as hearing a Conforming-Minister are a great offence to some that are truly Godly yet may I not say If such a Fellowship if such Baptizing and the rest offend my Brother I will do no such thing while the World standeth lest I should offend It were sin so to resolve because these are moral Duties and not left to my liberty as Meats and the rest 1 Cor. 8.13 and Acts 8. wherein the nature of indifferent things is laid down Consideration II. About refraining a Moral Duty for the Evil mixed with it or in the Persons performing it 1. As we are not to do Evil that Good may come of it no more ought we to leave what is morally Good undone for the Evil that is some-way mixed with it Zeal for Good is to be preferred to that which is against Evil. The greatest Good is better than the greatest Evil is back What-ever good thing we do tends towards our Union with the chiefest Good the refraining of Evil not so immediately 2. Betwixt things indifferent and what is morally good you have this difference If there be any mixture of evil with the one it becomes wholly evil there is nothing of good in it to give stop or preponderate but what is morally good will remain so still though mixed with evil We may allay the worth of it as baser Metals mixed with Gold but yet it is Gold still and may be perfectly severed 3. When I would do good saith the

People in his holy Ordinances and half imagining that they draw near enough to God if they can withdraw far enough from other Men. Great Zeal they have against the false Church Ministry and Worship so being or by them conceived so to be and against any appearing evil in the true but little for that which is true and good as their practice manifests But Evil is as contrary to Evil as Good is to Evil and so is that Zeal plainly carnal which carries a Man further against Evil than for Good seeing no Evil is so evil as Good is good Fourthly There are some to be found so sowred with moodiness and discontentment as they become unsociable and almost Lukanthropoi Werewolfs as they speak if they see nothing lamentable they are ready to lament if they take contentment in any it is in them alone whom they find discontented if they reade any Books they are only Invectives especially against Publick States and their Governours All things tending to accord and union any manner of way are unwelcome unto them They have their Portion in Ishmael's Blessing Gen. 16.12 Lastly There want not some who as Jehu in his fierce marching covered his Ambition Cruelty and Zeal for his own House under pretext of Zeal for God's think to cover and palliate their both grosser and more proper and personal Corruptions under a furious March not only against the Failings but the Persons also failing of Infirmity in matters of Church-Order and Ordinances Who if they were well acquainted and duly affected with their own both more voluntary and greater Sins would slack their Jehu's Peace yea turn their Course tho not to walk with others in Evil which God forbid yet to apply and accommodate themselves unto them in that which is good so far as possibly they could observe any way by the Lord opened unto them I could instance in and name divers particular Persons monstrously grown out of kind this way But that Course I leave unto them who rather desire the disgracing than the bettering of them against whom they deal Or perhaps conceive in their leavened Hearts that there is no other way of bettering specially Persons of mean Condition than by disgracing them But let not my Soul come in their Secret in whose Habitations are such Instruments of Cruelty Gen. 49.5 6. These things thus premised the Objections follow which I have either heard from others or can conceive of my self most colourable against the Practice by me propounded And they are of two sorts Some of them are framed upon Supposition that the Ministers in that Church are in themselves lawful and of God but now yet to be heard by reason of the Abuses and Evils to be found in their Ministrations Others withdraw herein and those the more upon the contrary Supposition To wit that the very Order and Constitution of that Church and Ministry is Papal and unlawful Now the Examination of the Grounds of the one or other I will not in this place meddle with but though both cannot be true will for the satisfying of the with-drawers on both Parts grant for the present to either Part their Ground and so examine distinctly what Exceptions they can or do build thereupon But first for the former Supposing a Church and the Ministry thereof essentially lawful it cannot but be lawful for the Members of other Churches in general Union and Association with it to communicate therewith in things lawful and lawfully done seeing the end of Union is Communion God hath in vain united Persons and States together if they may in nothing communicate together But he who would have us receive the weak in Faith whom God hath received would not have us refuse the Fellowship of Churches in that which is good for any Weakness in them of one sort or other And this we have so plainly and plentifully commended unto us both by the Prophets yea by Christ himself in the Jewish Church and Apostles and Apostolical Men in the first Christian Churches in which many Errors and Evils of all kinds were more than manifest and the same oft-times both so far spread and deeply rooted as the reforming of them was rather to be wished than hoped for As that no place is left for doubting in that case by any who desire to follow their holy Steps in Faith towards God and Charity towards Men and effectual Desire of their own Edification The Objections of the former sort follow Object 1. There is danger of being seduced and misled by the Errors taught in the Assemblies Answ 1. We must not lose the Benefit of many main Truths taught for danger of some few Errors specially in lesser matters This were to fear the Devil more than to trust God 2. There were in the Jewish Church in Christ's time and in divers of the Apostolical Churches afterwards more and greater Errors taught than are in any or all the Churches in England of which also there are not a few which if their Ministers did as fully and faithfully teach and practise all Truths as they keep themselves carefully from Errors might compare in this Business with any reformed Church in Europe 3. This Exception hath its weight against the hearing of Priests and Jesuits specially by the weaker sort and less able to discern of things that differ But not against many Ministers of the Church of England Object 2. He that in any thing partakes with that Church in which Sins known are suffered unreformed partakes in all the Sins of that Church as he that swears by the Altar swears by the Offerings upon it which it sanctifies Mat. 23.19 20. Answ I partake not in the Sins of any how great or manifest soever the Sins be or how near unto me soever the Persons be except the same Sins either be committed or remain unreformed by my Fault Otherwise Christ our Lord had been inwrapped in the Guilt of a world of Sins in the Jewish Church with which Church he communicated in God's Ordinances living and dying a Member thereof If my Brother sin a scandalous Sin and I by just order make Complaint thereof to the Church I have done my Duty It appertains to the Church to excommunicate him if he repent not but not to me except Pope-like I would make my self the Church I am guilty of the Evil in the Commonwealth and Family for redressing whereof I do not my duty in my place which if I do in the Church as I can I am free from the Sins done and suffered there which Sins and Evils I can no more be said to suffer wanting power to reform them than to suffer it to blow or rain because I hinder it not But the proof of the Assertion from Mat. 13. is of admirable device How doth the Church sanctify the Sin of the Sinner as the Altar doth the Offering of the Offerer The Altar makes that to become actually an Offering or holy Gift which before was not an Offering actually but only Gold

loseth them in all the rest and therefore if a Man do take what is good of all sides he is apt to lose them all but he pleaseth Christ by it and so will I for this particular Dr. Owen pag. 177. of Evangelical Love saith That it is pleaded indeed the Substance of the Worship of God ought to be no other than what Jesus Christ hath appointed yet the Manner and Mode of performance of what he doth command with other Rites and Ceremonies for Order and Decency may lawfully be instituted by the Rulers of the Church let it therefore at present be granted says he that so they may be by them who are perswaded of the lawfulness of those Modes and of the things wherein they consist Indeed he very much condemns Communion with such Apostatical Churches who are guilty of Idolatry and require unscriptural Terms of Communion but what Churches those are remains to be proved I am sure he asserts that many Errors in Doctrine Disorders in Sacred Administrations irregular walking in Conversation with neglect and abuse of Discipline in Rulers may fall out in some Churches and yet not evacuate their Church-State or give sufficient warrant for any Person to leave their Communion and to separate from them Pag. 76. Evang. Love And pag. 176. We wholly deny that the Mistakes of Christians in joining themselves unto such Churches as have no warrantable Institution ought to be any cause of the diminishing of our Love towards them for they may be Persons born of God united to Christ partakers of the Spirit and belong to the Church Catholick Mystical which is the first principal Object of all Christian Love and Charity notwithstanding their Errors and Wandrings from the Truth in this Matter And the said Dr. Owen who in his Discourse of the Work of the Spirit in Prayer writes against the making or composing of Forms of Prayer for our selves to be used privately desires the Reader p. 200. to observe that he doth not argue against Forms of Prayer as unlawful to be used And pag. 222. he grants that Men or Churches may agree upon a prescribed Form by common consent as judging and avowing it best for their own Edification Again pag. 228. Whether they are approved or disapproved of God whether they are lawful or unlawful we do not consider but only whether they are for Spiritual Benefit and Advantage for the good of our own Souls and the Edification of others as set up in competition with the Gift before described So that it seems the Doctor doth not judg such Forms of Prayer unlawful which are for the good of our own Souls and the Edification of others and which are not in competition with the Gift before described And therefore p. 231 232. supposing that those who make use of and plead for Forms of Prayer especially in Publick do in a due manner prepare themselves for it by holy meditation with an endeavour to bring their Souls into a holy frame of Fear delight and reverence of God let it also be supposed that they have a good End and Design in the Worship they address themselves unto namely the Glory of God and their own Spiritual Advantage the Prayers themselves tho they should be in some things irregular may give occasion to exercise those Acts of Grace which they were otherwise prepared for And I say yet further that whilst these Forms of Prayer are cloathed with the general Notions of Prayer that is are esteemed as such in the minds of them that use them are accompanied in their use with the Motives and Ends of Prayer express no Matter unlawful to be insisted on in Prayer directing the Souls of Men to none but lawful Objects of Divine Worship and Prayer the Father Son and Holy Spirit and whilst Men make use of them with the true design of Prayer looking after due assistance unto Prayer I do not judg there is any such Evil in them as that God will not communicate his Spirit to any in the use of them so as that they should have no holy Communion with him in and under them Much less will I say that God never therein regards their Persons or rejects their praying as unlawful For the Persons and Duties of Men may be accepted with God when they walk and act in sincerity according to their Light tho in many things and those of no small importance sundry Irregularities are found both in what they do and in the manner of doing it Where Persons walk before God in their Integrity and practise nothing contrary to their Light and Conviction in his Worship God is merciful unto them altho they order not every thing according to the Rule and Measure of the Word So was it with them who came to the Passover in the days of Hezekiah They had not cleansed themselves but did eat the Passover otherwise than it was written 2 Chron. 30.18 And p. 235. he grants That such Forms of Prayer have not any intrinsecal Evil in the composition of them but argues against the setting up and prescribing such Forms of Prayer universally in opposition and unto the exclusion of free Prayer And p. 236. If they appear not contrary unto or inconsistent with or are not used in a way exclusive of that Work of the Holy Spirit in Prayer which we have described from the Scripture nor are reducible to any Divine Prohibition I shall not contend with any about them Much more might have been collected even out of the Writings of the Congregational Ministers concerning these weighty Matters but this is sufficient I know the Reader will be sollicitous to know their Judgment about the Lord's Supper and kneeling thereat but I must confess at present I cannot find they say any thing particularly about it only the practice of some of them in receiving the Sacrament according to the manner of the Church of England does evince that all of them do not deny the lawfulness of it but that they may sometimes communicate there tho ordinarily they do with their own particular Churches for better-Edification as they judg Mr. Tombs a learned Minister and a great Anabaptist wrote a Book to prove it lawful both to Hear and Communicate with the Church of England and his practice at Salisbury was conformable thereunto Indeed the Nonconformists that are called Presbyterians both Ancient and Modern do generally allow the lawfulness of Communicating with the Church of England tho at the same Time they held the Ceremonies to be burthen some and therefore would avoid them if they could but if they could not have the Sacrament otherwise they took it as they could have it Thus says Mr. Baxter in his Christian Directory pag. 859. First Edition Had I my choice I would receive the Lord's Supper sitting but where I have not I will use the Gesture which the Church useth And it is to be noted that the Church of England requireth the Communicants only to receive it kneeling but not to eat and drink it kneeling when they have received it And his Resolution of this Case ought to be considered viz. Quest May the Communion-Tables be turned Altar-wise and railed in And is it lawful to come up to the Rails to Communicate Answ 1. God hath given us no particular Command or Prohibition about these Circumstances but the general Rules for Unity Edification Order and Decency Whether the Table should stand this way or that way here or there c. he hath not particularly determined 2. They that turn the Table Altar-wise and rail it in out of a design to draw Men to Popery or in a scandalous way which will encourage Men to or in Popery do sin 3. So do they that rail in the Table to signify that the Vulgar or Lay-Christians must not come to it but be kept at a distance when Christ in his Personal Presence admitted his Disciples to communicate at the Table with himself 4. But where there are no such Ends but only to imitate the Ancients that did thus and to shew reverence to the Table on the account of the Sacrament by keeping away Dogs keeping Boys from sitting on it c. The professed Doctrine of the Church condemneth Transubstantiation the real Corporal Presence c. as ours doth In this Case Christians should take these for such as they are indifferent things and not censure or condemn each other for them nor should any inforce them on any that think them unlawful 5. And to Communicate is not only lawful in this Case where we cannot prove that the Minister sinneth but even when we suspect an evil Design in him which we cannot prove yea or when we can prove that his personal Interpretation of the Place Name Situation and Rails is unsound for we assemble there to communicate in and according to the professed Doctrine of Christianity and the Churches and our own open Profession and not after every private Opinion and Error of the Minister As I may receive from an Anabaptist or Separatist notwithstanding his Personal Errors so may I from another Mans whose Error destroyeth not his Ministry nor the Ordinance as long as I consent not to it yea and with the Church profess my dissent 6. Yet caeteris paribus every free Man that hath his choice should chuse to Communicate rather where there is most Purity and least Error than with those that swerve more from regular Exactness FINIS

THE LAVVFULNES OF Hearing the Publick Ministers OF THE Church of England PROVED By Mr. PHILIP NYE AND Mr. JOHN ROBINSON Two Eminent Congregational Divines Together with the Judgment of Dr. Goodwin Dr. Owen and other INDEPENDENTS as well Ancient as Modern concerning Forms of Prayer Parish-Churches and Communion with them And the Judgment of other Nonconformists about Kneeling at the Sacrament Published as well to satisfy those that yet scruple Communion with the Church as to vindicate those that have complied from the uncharitable Censures of those that vilify them as Temporizers or that they have done so to qualify themselves for an Office to serve a Turn or to save themselves from the Penal Laws LONDON Printed for Jonathan Robinson at the Golden Lion in St. Paul's Church-Yard 1683. TO THE READER THe design of these Sheets is to satisfy the Consciences of those Dissenters that hold Communion with the Church of England unlawful beseeching them seriously to consider what is here said in order to the Church's Peace and to prevent their designed ruin by Learned and Holy Men that are of the Separation commonly called Independents I have quoted none of the Presbyterian Perswasion only in the business of kneeling at the Sacrament because it would be an endless work they generally both Ancient and Modern having asserted the lawfulness of at least Lay-Communion with the Church of England And besides I perceive their Arguments will not prevail with Independents who deny a National Church I know there are many that are convinced it is lawful to Hear Sermons but not the Liturgy as an imposed Form They may find here what the Reverend and Learned Dr. Owen says concerning Forms of Prayer in the latter end of these Sheets And whereas they complain the Church-Prayers are empty Forms I wish they would come and fill them with Spirit and Zeal But the greatest Scruple that hinders them is kneeling at the Sacrament and that which pinches them most is that this Gesture is said to be Adoration given to the Elements but they should consider what the Church says concerning that Gesture which me thinks should remove that Scruple and satisfy every reasonable Man in that particular which for their satisfaction I here quote at large Viz. Whereas it is ordained in this Office for the Administration of the Lord's Supper that the Communicants should receive the same Kneeling which Order is well meant for a signification of our humble and grateful acknowledgment of the Benefits of Christ therein given to all worthy Receivers and for the avoiding of such prophanation and disorder in the Holy Communion as might otherwise ensue Yet lest the same Kneeling should by any Persons either out of ignorance and infirmity or out of malice and obstinacy be misconstrued and depraved It is here declared that thereby no adoration is intended or ought to be done either unto the Sacramental Bread and Wine there bodily received or unto any Corporal Presence of Christ's natural Flesh and Blood For the Sacramental Bread and Wine remains still in their very natural substances and therefore may not be adored for that were Idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful Christians and the natural Body and Blood of our Saviour Christ are in Heaven and not here it being against the truth of Christ's natural Body to be at one time in more places than one This Caution which wholly denies Transubstantiation together with that Prayer about the Gunpowder-Treason being now incorporated in our Liturgie do as Dr. Goodwin told a Reverend Doctor of the Church of England now living make it impossible there should be any Reconciliation with the Church of Rome The Reverend and Learned Mr. Perkins an old Puritan says to this effect That that Adoration used in the Sacrament is not terminated in the Elements but a token of Godly Reverence to Christ himself sitting in Glory c. Mr. Cartwright says also That a Man must not refuse to receive the Sacrament kneeling when he cannot have it otherwise Mr. Fenner speaks to the same purpose And the Learned Mr. Vines says That Gestures at Receiving are Moveables and not of the Free-hold of this Ordinance In short whether Men are satisfied in whole or in part I wish they would consider seriously what that excellent Man Mr. Jer. Burroughs a Congregational Divine says in his Irenicon pag. 182. viz. That one great dividing Practice hath been this That because Men cannot join in all things with others they will join in nothing Mr. PHILIP NY's Resolution of this Case of Conscience Viz. Whether we may lawfully hear the Now Conforming Ministers who are Re-ordained and have renounced the Covenant and some of them supposed to be scandalous in their Lives Answer FOr the Resolution of this Case there is a three-fold Consideration pertinent Consideration I. About the Duty it self Hearing the Word There are four ways by which at this Day the Great God conveyeth the knowledg of himself and his Mind unto sinful Man 1. His Works of Creation and Providence Psalm 19.2 2. The suggest of Conscience even the remainder of God's Image in us 3. The Word or Law of God written expounded or applyed in ordinary Preaching 4. The Church which is the Ground and Pillar of Truth the Knowledg of God and his Mind is more especially there held forth by the Gifts given and Offices therein appointed by Christ These are distinct Ways and Methods of God by which he is pleased to make known himself and we are obliged even by the Law of Nature to attend when God doth speak it is therefore an undoubted moral Duty to attend the speaking of God in whatsoever way by Providence brought unto us The Scripture with the Interpretation and Application thereof commonly termed Prophesying or Preaching is one of the forementioned Means by which God makes known himself to us this is a National Gift according as God in his Providence shall dispose Psal 147.19 20. Such National or Publick Preachers may be said to have their Call from Christ he having a hand in ordering the Motions of Providence for the Good of his Church John 5.17 And particularly in this Providential sending of Ministers Mat. 9.38 and this is the calling and sending mentioned Rom. 10.15 The Lord in these Administrations by Preachers thus sent according to the good Pleasure of his Will finds out a People before they seek him This is a dispensation of God to Men as his Creatures For Application to the Case The Word of God interpreted and apply'd by preaching in this providential way is a choice Mercy and Gift wherewith God hath blessed this Nation for many Years to the Conversion and Edification of many thousands The Governors thereof have successively according to their Light made divers good Laws and Statutes for improving this Mercy for the best advantage of the Nation as appears in that 1. There are Schools and Universities maintained for the bringing up of Persons in Learning also there is a constant setled Maintenance

upon those whom you call Brownists to this day this I cleared them from and it is as great a clearning as can be The second Error was of those who hold Particular Churches those you call Parish-Churches to be no true Churches of Christ and their Ministers to be no true Ministers and upon that ground forbear all Church-Communion with them in Hearing or in any other Ordinance And as I acquitted these from that other Error so I acquitted my self from this and my Brethren in the Ministry I would not now have touched upon it again but as I said to clear not my self so much as some mistakes about it The first is this It was understood as if I said that all Parish-Churches and Ministers generally were Churches and Ministers of Christ such as with whom Communion might be held I said not so I was wary in my Expressions I will only say this unto you about it There is no Man that desireth Reformation in this Kingdom as the generality of all Godly People do but will acknowledg and say that multitude of Parishes where Ignorance and Prophaness overwhelmeth the generality Scandalousness and Simony the Ministers themselves that these are not Churches and Ministers fit to be held Communion with Only this The Ordinances that have been administred by them so far we must acknowledg them that they are not to be recalled or repeated again But here lieth the Question my Brethren and my Meaning Whereas now in some of the Parishes in this Kingdom there are many Godly Men that do constantly give themselves up to the Worship of God in publick and meet together in one Place to that end in a constant way under a Godly Minister whom they themselves have chosen to cleave to tho they did not chuse him at first These notwithstanding their mixture and want of Discipline I never thought for my part but that they were true Churches of Christ and Sister Churches and so ought to be acknowledged And the contrary was the Error that I spake against Secondly For holding Communion with them I say as Sister-Churches occasionally as Strangers Men might hold Communion with them And it is acknowledged by all Divines that there is not that Obligation lying upon a Stranger that is not a Member of a Sister-Church to find fault in that Church or in a Member of it as doth on the Church it self to which one belongeth I will give you my Reasons that moved me to speak so much It was not simply to vent my own Judgment or simply to clear my self from that Error but the Reasons or rather the Motives and Considerations that stirred me in it were these First If we should not acknowledg these Churches thus stated to be true Churches of Christ and their Ministers true Ministers and their Order such and hold Communion with them too in the sense spoken of we must acknowledg no Church in all the Reformed Churches none of all the Churches in Scotland nor in Holland nor in Germany for they are all as full of mixture as ours And to deny that to our own Churches which we do not to the Churches abroad nothing can be more absurd And it will be very hard to think that there hath been no Church since the Reformation Secondly I know nothing tendeth more to the peaceable Reformation amongst us than to break down this Partition Wall for there is nothing provokes more than this doth to deny such Churches to be true Churches of Christ For do but think with your selves and I will give you a familiar Example You come to a Man whom you think to be a Godly Man you tell him he hath these and these Sins in him and they are great ones it is as much as he can bear though you tell him he is a Saint and acknowledg him so But if you come to him and say besides this You are a Limb of the Devil and you have no Grace in you this provokes all in a Man when there is any ground in himself to think so or in another to judg him so So it is here Come to Churches and say You have these Defects among you and these Things to be reformed but if you will come and say Your Churches and your Ministers are Antichristian and come from Babylon there is nothing provokes more Therefore if there be a Truth in it as I believe there is Men should be zealous to express it for this is the great Partition Wall that hindreth of twain making one Then again This is that which I consider and it is a great Consideration also I know that Jesus Christ hath given his People Light in matters of this nature by degrees Thousands of good Souls that have been bred up and born in our Assemblies and enjoy the Ordinances of God and have done it comfortably cannot suddenly take in other Principles you must wait upon Christ to do it In this Case Men are not to be wrought off by Falshoods God hath no need of them No rather till Men do take in Light you should give them all that is comfortable in the condition they are in we should acknowledg every good Thing in every Man in every Church in every Thing and that is a way to work upon Men and to prevail with them as it is Philem. vers 6. That the Communication of thy Faith may become effectual by the acknowledgment of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus It is that which buildeth men up by acknowledgment of every good thing that is in them Lastly The last Inconvenience is this It doth deprive men of all those Gifts that are found amongst our Ministers and in this Kingdom that they cannot hold any Communion or Fellowship with them So that I profess my self as zealous in this Point as in any other I know And for my part this I say and I say it with much integrity I never yet took up Religion by Parties in the lump I have found by trial of things that there is some Truth on all sides I have found Holiness where you would little think it and so likewise Truth and I have learned this Principle which I hope I shall never lay down till I am swallowed up of Immortality and that is that which I said before To acknowledg every good Thing and hold Communion with it in Men in Churches or whatsoever else I learn this from Paul I learn this from Jesus Christ himself he filleth all in all he is in the Hearts of his People and filleth them in his Ordinances to this day and where Jesus Christ filleth why should we deny an acknowledgment and a right hand of Fellowship and Communion My Brethren this Rule that I have now mentioned which I profess I have lived by and shall do while I live I know I shall never please Men in it Why it is plain For this is the nature and condition of all Mankind if a Man dissents from others in one thing he