Conferences especially when they are faithfully Penn'd down and so expos'd to the general View And this for the following-Reasons 1. Few Men have Leisure or at least Industry enough for the perusal of large Treatises whereas one of these Conferences seldom reaches to above a Sheet of Paper 2. Men are commonly so well perswaded of the Truth of their own Party or else so willing to be perswaded of it that for the most part they only Read their own Authors and so become at best but partial Judges especially when they happen to be on that Side which stands in need of some insincere Dealing for its support Whereas in these Conferences the Arguments on both Sides being interchangeably set down and mixt with one another it will not be possible for the Reader to read and understand the one without reading and considering the other 3. The strength of the Arguments is more perspicuous when they are thus plac'd by one another according to the Maxim Contraria juxtà se posita magis elucescunt As it is also when they are laid before us naked and stript of all those artificial Ornaments of Rhetorick and Satyr which make up a great part of our late Controversial Volumes and serve for nothing else than to amuse and deceive an unwary and unskilful Reader who is inclin'd to think that he who says most hath most to say and that he who hath the best Jest hath likewise the best Argument 4. In these Conferences the Disputants have not so great an opportunity of wresting and perverting one anothers Arguments as they have when each Party sitting in his Study and as it were on his own Dunghil hath his Adversary at his Mercy and makes him speak what he hath a mind to by disguising and misrepresenting his Arguments or else changeth the State of the Question and imposeth a new Task upon him dealing with him as Conjurers are said to do with the Devil who when they have rais'd him are taught never to let him rest but as soon as one Business is dispatch'd or even before 't is quite done to employ him in another lest otherwise he might want Work and then destroy the Conjurers to keep himself from Idleness And we have not far to go for some Instance of this nature For you are pleas'd to say that the Conference whereof we now speak depended on two things to be prov'd by Mr. G 1. That you Protestants have no absolute Certainty as to the Rule of your Faith viz. The Scripture altho' you have a larger and firmer Tradition for it viz. The Consent of all Christian Churches than we Catholics can have for the Points of Faith in difference between us 2. That the Tradition from Father to Son is an infallible Conveyance of Matters of Faith notwithstanding the Greek Church is charg'd by us Catholics with Error which adher'd to Tradition Now as to the First it is not deny'd That there is in truth an absolute Certainty for that Scripture wherein you agree with us but that according to your Principles who at the time of your Reformation charg'd all Christian Churches with Errors not only in other Articles of their Belief but even in the Tradition or Delivery of Scripture and yet rely on the Tradition of these Churches for it any such Certainty can be shewn We say farther that whereas you pretend to an absolute Certainty as to the Rule of your Faith from the Consent of all Christian Churches you seem to forget that your Rule is Scripture not as Interpreted or to be Interpreted by the Church but as understood or to be understood without a necessity of submitting to the Interpretation of the Church by every sober Enquirer tho' of the meanest capacity for which Rule as you know well enough you are very far from having the Consent of all Christian Churches To which purpose I spoke before Lastly we desire to know according to what I have likewise said above what those Christian Churches are whose Testimony is required towards the assuring us what is Scripture and what not and by what mark you distinguish them from others Since we cannot suppose that in this Case you require the Concurrence of all Heretical Congregations which may profess a Belief in Christ and call themselves Christians forasmuch as these amongst them some denying one Book of Scripture and some another either have or may deny the whole Canon And for this reason you ought to shew us by what Rule we are able to discern the Orthodox Deliverers of Scripture from the Heterodox lest otherwise we may be deceived by receiving too little or too much for Canonical And this was that Task which remained on your hands when the first Disputation broke off But here instead of finishing it you finely disguise it and by a certain Controversie-juggle put it into the hands of your Adversary as tho' it belonged to him In the second Point you would make the World believe that it lay on Mr. G to prove that supposing The Greek Church erred whilst it adhered to Tradition a Church adhering to Tradition could not err Whereas Mr. G never acknowledged that the Greek Church erred whilst it adhered to Tradition and therefore to suppose it as you do was to beg the Question and misrepresent the State of the Argument Wherefore to stay no longer on this Subject I beg of my Readers to weigh your two Propositions and compare them carefully with the two Disputations to which they belong and if after that they shall conclude that each Question is rightly Stated by you and that the Proof in both is incumbent on Mr. G as you would have it I will be contented that my Fourth Reason against Disputing by Books viz. the hazard of Misrepresentation shall go for nothing Fifthly Much time is spent by Controversie-Writers not only in proving certain Propositions which would be granted them by their Adversaries but also in raising silly Objections which their Adversaries neither have nor are like to make Which two things besides the loss of Time which is no small mischief are very apt to misguide one who is not resolved to hear both sides by making him think that what his Author is so solicitous to prove must necessarily be denied by the adverse Party and that what the one labors to refute the other must have Objected or at least be likely to Object And what an erroneous Idea must such a person have of his Authors Adversaries whilst he takes those weak Affirmations and Denials to be Theirs which are not so in effect Now these Inconveniences are avoided by a Personal Conference where nothing is proved but what is denied and nothing refuted but what is really Objected Hereby the loss of time is prevented the just reputation of the Disputants and the due merits of each Cause preserved and what is most considerable a great hindrance to the discovery of Truth removed Sixthly The multiplication of large Volumes of Controversie is apt to
A LETTER To Dr. E. S. CONCERNING His late Letter to Mr. G. and the Account he gives in it of a Conference between Mr. G. and himself From one who was present at the Conference Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty For his Houshold and Chappel 1687. A LETTER To Dr. E. S. Concerning his late Letter to Mr. G and the Account he gives in it of a Conference between Mr. G and himself SIR MR. G being now at a very great distance from this Place and it being great pity that his Reputation should suffer so long as it must needs be till you can receive an Answer to your Letter from himself I think it will neither misbecome a Christian nor a Friend if having been a Witness to the Conference you mention and Conversed with Mr. G both before and after it I overcome the natural Repugnance I have of appearing in this manner and offer some Things to your Consideration which I ought to hope will much conduce towards the restoring him both to your good Opinion and to that of the World who being Strangers to the Matter of Fact I am confident think worse of it than you your self do tho' your Complaint seem to be so much in earnest Wherefore I take the liberty of laying what I have to say before you as faithfully as a most sincere desire of speaking nothing but Truth and as fully as my Memory shall enable me First then before the Conference Mr. G acquainted me that having affirm'd in some Company That no Protestants could shew any Ground of Absolute Certainty for their Faith one Mr. T had promis'd him That if you were not able to manifest the contrary he would forsake your Communion and that hereupon he had undertaken to Discourse with you on this Subject I mention this that my Readers may know how the Conference was occasion'd and what was design'd for the Matter of it that they may be the better Judges of what follow'd The Hour of Conference being come before any Arguments pass'd Mr. G desir'd that what was said on both Sides might be written down for the prevention of such Mistakes as might otherwise arise and are very usual in Things of this nature This Proceeding was no Mark of one who wanted an Intention of dealing fairly nor part of that great care which you say he took to keep you from expecting any great Ingenuity from him since nothing could savour of greater Candor or more Ingenuity than a Desire of putting it out of his power to represent that which pass'd any otherwise than in truth it was which he manifestly shew'd by proposing that it might be committed to Writing Wherefore if you had spar'd this Reflection I am am apt to think that you would have given a better Proof of that Ingenuity in your self which you seem to look on as wanting in him Mr. G having desir'd this three Persons sate down to Write The Gentleman whom you Employ'd was one Mr. T the Protestant whom you Confirm'd a Second and Mr. G s Friend the Third The First Thing which was Propos'd and indeed the only Subject which as I have already intimated Mr. G had any purpose to Discourse on was Whether Protestants had a Ground of Absolute Certainty for their Faith or not During this Dispute which I think lasted about two Hours tho' it was not carry'd on without some Wrangling yet at length the Questions and Answers were Penn'd down with Quietness enough They were also constantly Read aloud after they were Written so that all the Writers had an opportunity of rectifying what should happen to be amiss in their respective Copies This Exactness continu'd during the Agitation of this First and Chief Question But this Dispute being broken off after what manner I shall tell you presently when the People grew weary and as it seldom fails on such Occasions somewhat more Peevish a new Controversie was started which lasted but a little while and being manag'd with more Noise and greater Interruptions especially towards the end than the former it might have been apprehended that the Writers would not be able to observe the same Accurateness which they had done before and that thence might follow some little Disagreement between the Copies In a word The Discourse growing hot and Passion and Personal Reflections beginning to take the place of Arguments or at least to mix with them the Company rose up and Mr. T being willing to preserve the Peace and considering as I suppose that it was late declar'd that he was abundantly satisfi'd with your Reasons and therefore signifi'd his Desire that Mr. G might not trouble you any farther whereupon he was forc'd to put an end to his Argumentation by Taking his leave And here I confess there were some Things said by both Sides which were not written down and it is not improbable but that somewhat might be taken by one Writer which was not by another The Parting also was so abrupt and hasty that no one thought of or at least mention'd the Comparing or Signing the Papers but each Writer without any farther Ceremony carry'd away his own Copy Some Readers imagine by what you speak of an Original Copy read aloud and approved by both Parties that such a Copy of the whole was Read at the end of the Conference and so approved which was not so but the Questions and Answers were for the most part still read as they were set down in the manner I have here described This is in General what I remember of the Conference of which I shall have occasion to speak more particularly hereafter After the Conference Mr. G desired the Gentleman who wrote for him to let him have the Copy he had taken And proceeding bonâ fide and knowing no Cause why this Gentleman should put a corrupt Copy into his hands as also finding what he received to agree in Substance with what he himself remembred of the Dispute he had no reason to look on it any otherwise than as sufficiently exact at least so much of it as concerned the first and principal Controversie which as I have said before was more couriously taken notice of Now whereas you say That Mr. G made great boasts of a Victory after the Conference he was so far from it that being then asked by some of his friends what had been the issue of that rencounter he answered that your Art was such that he had not been able to bring his Disputation to any Conclusion Which in my Opinion is rather a Commendation of your Skill than a boast of his own Victory He added indeed that if their Curiosity led them to know how far and in what manner the Matter was carried he could shew them the Questions and Answers that were written down on both sides Leaving them to pick out what they could from such lame and unfinished Discourses And I wonder that you your self should suppose that
he aimed at the Glory of a Conqueror by those Papers since you cannot but see that according to the Tenor of them the Victory lies on neither Side I say this on presumption that those Papers which came to your hands were true Copies of that which was given out by Mr. G But because it may be otherwise and that a great part of your Spleen on this Occasion may be raised by a mistake I shall here subjoin a true Copy of Mr. G 's Paper And that you may examine the Fidelity of it with more Convenience a Copy likewise of your own which I had from a Protestant Gentleman of great worth and integrity shall be set down by it in a Parallel Column That on a due Comparison and maturer thoughts you may judge whether Mr. G in truth deserve so black a Note of insincerity as you are pleased to lay upon him or on the other side you be obliged to make some amends for an ungentile and unchristian Insinuation Mr. G s Copy Dr. St 's Copy 1 Qu. VVHether you are absolutely Certain that you hold now the same Tenets in Faith and all that our Saviour taught to his Apostles 1 Qu. VVHether you are absolutely certain that you hold now the same Tenets in Faith and all that our Saviour taught to his Apostles 1 Answ We are absolutely certain that we now hold all the same Doctrin that was taught by Christ and his Apostles 1 Answ We are absolutely certain that we now hold all the same Doctrin that was taught by Christ and his Apostles 2 Qu. By what certain Rule do you hold it 2 Qu. By what certain Rule do you hold it 2 Answ By the Divine Revelations contained in the writings of the New Testament 2 Answ By the Divine Revelations contained in the writings of the New Testament 3 Qu. By what certain Rule do you know that the New Testament we now have does contain all the Divine Revelations of Christ and his Apostles 3 Qu. By what certain Rule do you know that the New Testament which we now have does contain all the Divine Revelations of Christ and his Apostles 3 Answ By the Universal Testimony of the Christian Church from the Apostles time downwards 3 Answ By the Universal Testimony of the Christian Church from the Apostles time downward 4 Qu. Was that Vniversal Testimony an Infallible Rule to assure us certainly down to our time that the New Testament contained all the Divine Revelations of Christ and his Apostles 4 Qu. Was that Universal Testimony an Infallible Rule to assure us certainly down to our time that the New Testament contained all the Divine Revelations of Christ and his Apostles 4 Answ The Vniversal Testimony of the Christian Church concerning the Book of Scripture and the Doctrin contained therein is a sufficient ground to make us certain of all matters that are necessary for our Salvation 4 Answ The Universal Testimony of the Christian Church concerning the Book of Scripture and the Doctrin contained therein is a sufficient ground to make us certain of all matters that are necessary to our Salvation 5 Qu. Being the word Christian Church may be taken in several Latitudes by persons of different Religions I desire to know how you desine the Christian Church Or what it is whose Testimony is sufficient to make us absolutely certain of all matters that are necessary to our Salvation 5 Qu. Being the words Christian Church may be taken in several Latitudes by persons of different Religions I desire to know what that Christian Church is whose Testimony concerning the Book of Scripture and the Doctrin contained therein is a sufficient ground to make us certain of all matters that are necessary to our Salvation 5 Answ By the Universal Testimony of the Christian Church concerning the Books of Scripture which are our Rule of Faith as to matters of our Salvation I mean the Vniversal Testimony of all Christian Churches from the Apostles downward 5 Answ By the Universal Testimony of the Christian Church concerning the Books of Scripture which are our Rule of Faith as to matters of Salvation I mean the Universal consent of all Christian Churches from the Apostles time downward  Here Mr. T the Person for whom the Conference was being well satisfied in the Doctors Answers desired to ask Mr. G some Questions saying he was confirmed in the Truth of his own Church and therefore demanded how he proved theirs You have here the whole and entire Writings of the first longest and most Methodical Controversie as well according to Mr. G s Edition as your own wherein the difference is so trivial that I dare appeal even to your own subtilty who are as apt to find a Knot in a Bulrush as another whether or no you have here any cause for complaint And his exactness in this Copy ought to have been an Argument with you that such Errors as you found in the other were rather to be attributed to the Confusion wherein that second Dispute ended or some other Accident than to any wilful falsification unless perhaps you imagined that the issue of the first Dispute was such as that Mr. G could have no temptation for any Forgery in the account of it which is not greatly for your Credit since this Dispute as I have said was that for which the Conference was designed and that wherein the whole time in a manner was taken up it being carried on as far as you were pleased to give it leave At the end of that Copy of your Paper which I received from the abovementioned Protestant Gentleman I found these words Here Mr. T. the person for whom the Conference was being well satisfied in the Doctors Answers c. And therefore I have likewise added them in this Transcript left I also might pass with you for a Disperser of imperfect Copies tho' I think the Gentleman told me that those words were only his own Memorandum of what you imparted to him by word of Mouth concerning that Dispute And this too I say left on the other hand you should arraign me for any Addition So scrupulously careful it behoves a man to be when for the punishment of his Sins he falls into those circumstances where not only the least inadvertence is improved into a crime but even when nothing else will serve the turn the clearest innocence is render'd guilty And now to shew the World how willing I am to do you all the right imaginable I must freely acknowledge that Mr. T at the end of your last Answer in this Dispute as he had done a Question or two before declared according to what is set down in the abovewritten Memorandum that he was fully satisfied with your Answers Neither did Mr. G ever pretend the contrary But then I hope in return you will give us and others leave to judge who give every man leave to judge in things of far greater consequence and difficulty how far this satisfaction of Mr. T