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A41618 Papists protesting against Protestant-popery in answer to a discourse entituled, A papist not mis-represented by Protestants : being a vindication of The papist mis-represented and represented, and the reflections upon the answer. Gother, John, d. 1704. 1686 (1686) Wing G1340; ESTC R227532 21,123 40

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PAPISTS PROTESTING Against Protestant-Popery IN Answer to a Discourse Entituled A Papist not Mis-represented by Protestants BEING A VINDICATION Of the Papist Mis represented and Represented And the Reflections upon the Answer LONDON Printed by Hen. Hills Printer to the King 's most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel 1686. PAPISTS PROTESTING AGAINST Protestant-Popery MY Replier begins with Complements and I cannot but admire his art of weaving raillery into them so neatly that every Eye will not discern which is which But of all his Complements I take the Reply it self to be the greatest Now in good manners I should take my turn with my compliments but am forc'd to drop these and stand upon my guard for the Replier while he Compliments me with one hand is giving me a box with the other in his very next lines calling in question my honesty without any mincing it at all In the Misrepresentation of a Papist he says I have shew'd some Art but very little Honesty The Replier said just before that he would compliment no more and is as good as his word As for me I am much mistaken if I find not upon occasion more vouchers for my honesty then Art If I did by chance stumble into it 't was against my inclination and I am sure I fell up-hill But he would have my Art lye in this that whereas I was told in the Answer that some of those misrepresentations which I had made of a Papist and given out for the Protestant Character of Popery were my own ignorant or childish or willful Mistakes I craftily insinuate that they grant all my Mis-representations of a Papist to be ignorant childish or willful Mistakes Which is in short the Answer gives some and I take all And yet those two little words upon which the whole Stress and Truth of his charge lie are neither in the Answer nor Reflections but are providentially juggled in here by himself to give the Reader an early tast of his own Honesty while he challenges mine The Answerer had said must the Character now suppos'd to be common to Protestants be taken from his ignorant c. Mistakes The Reflecter says Because you say my Character is made up of false apprehensions ignorant c. Mistakes What difference is here in sense at all And what difference even in words save that I add false apprehensions which the Answerer likewise has in the very next page Neither of us mention all or some which the Replyer not without reason suspects of craft As the Answerer thereof meant I assure him I meant the whole Character if he meant so and part only if he meant no more Nor did I ever think of extending his Authority farther than he extended it himself If the Replyer find any Art in this I for my part find no dishonesty and think I have ill luck to fall into his bad opinion for keeping precisely to my Adversaries sense and almost precisely to his words The Replyer comes after this with full Cry and asks what is the meaning of all this pother and noise about this double Character of a Papist Mis-represented and Represented Truely I cannot tell and think he would do well to ask those who make it for they in all likely-hood know best I for my part thought it a very inoffensive thing to let people know what Papists are and pray God there be not a fear they should appear what they are least they be found to be unlike what they are made appear They have been cry'd out upon for keeping the people in Ignorance of their Doctrines and when they expose them to open view 't is strange there should be a noise about it Truly I did not expect it and I could not imagine a bare Narrative of matter of Fact should fructifie into Answers and Reflections and Replies I did but relate playing the Historian not the Controvertist Not but that with the liberty of Historians who deliver their own judgment of the matters they relate and their reasons for it I discover'd what I thought and sometimes said briefly why But every Body will see I made not Disputing my business And yet I know not how it is taken it seems for a piece of Controversie and which is more unreasonable against the Church of England and defences made for her as if my Mis-represented Papist were a Represented Church of England Protestant Whenas I never gave that Character out for a Church of England Character of Popery thought nothing of her Rule or Judgement nor dreamt of concerning her or any Body in my Mis-representation whose Conscience do's not of it self concern them All those who have such Idea's of us as I there draw I said Mis-represent us and to those who have not I said nothing He that would know whether he be concern'd or no has but to ask his own Heart to which I did then and do still leave him And yet notwithstanding this harmless justifying our selves there is a pother and noise it seems about the Papist Mis-represented and Represented and it is as fiercely assaulted on every side as if it came to declare open war and bid defiance to the world The Answerer set upon it in the Mis-repesenting part and will have that to be false apprehensions of the Author to be taken from his ignorant Childish or Wilful mistakes And then the Papist Represented he endeavours to overthrow with whole vollies of Objections Now comes the Replier and tho he makes it wonderful hard p. 40. to know what the Faith of a Papist is yet he acknowledges it in the same page to be true as the Representer has declar'd it excepting some few points and therefore passing by the Papist Represented with some light touches only his main attack is against the Papist Mis-represented and not being willing this should be understood as if made up of Childish Ignorant or Wilful Mistakes he will have it to be the very avow'd Doctrine and Practice of the Church of Rome He will have the Papist Mis-represented and Represented to be all the same excepting some very few cases And this he has urg'd so far that I think 't is not now so much my Personal concern to make an Answer as the concern of as many as throughout the whole World profess themselves Catholicks to consider the truth of what is here charg'd against them The Salvation of their Souls their Eternity is at stake If what is here positively asserted against them be true 't is high time for them to reform and to leave off the Doctrine and Practice of so much Heathenism under a Christian Name Protestants in hopes of a mutual condescendence may flatter them as they please and tell them they have Charity enough to think they may be saved for my part I declare if Popery be guilty of what he says it cannot enter into my thoughts there 's any room for it in Heaven and that there 's any more possibility of a
Men do such Actions as are Idolatrous how can the intention excuse them from Idolatry So that by this way of reasoning he can never throw us down but we must fall both together For tho the Sacrament or the Altar are not express'd in the Commandment yet since the External Action of Adoration is a Religious and Divine Worship according to the Repliers Principle before establish'd the Bowing down and Kneeling to them cannot be excus'd from the guilt of Constructive Idolatry And whatsoever hole the Replier can possibly find to get out at with his Altar the Representer will easily follow him at the same with his Image But that the Replier may see how far his Argument concludes I would fain know whether a Quaker might not as reasonably make use of the same for the justifying his Yea's and his Nay's and his other points of Quakerism For if he should say No intention can alter the Nature of Actions which are determin'd by a Divine or Humane Law But Swear not at all Neither be ye called Masters and let your Communication be Yea Yea Nay Nay are Actions or things determined by the Divine Law Therefore the Intention of doing no Evil in them cannot excuse the doing otherwise then is there determin'd from the guilt of sin This has equal force from a Quaker as from a Replier and makes evident that the same Arguments which persuade to a Reformation from Popery do upon the same grounds plead still for a farther Reformation Thus far have I follow'd the Replier beyond my business of Representing and I hope I have so far oblig'd him in it that however he has Question'd my Honesty he will not at lest now call me Vncivil Before I take my leave I will be so free as to offer him a Request or two which will not be thought unreasonable I hope since he himself has put them into my Mouth 1. That he will use his interest with Protestants to hold to what he says they do and charge us with nothing but what we expresly Profess to Believe and Practice 2. That they pick not up the Abuses of some the Vices and Cruelties of others the odd Opinions of particular Authors and hold these forth for the Doctrine and Practice of our Church And that in charging any Practices they charge them upon no more then are concern'd 3. That as often as they tell what they think of our Doctrines and Practices They would likewise at the same time inform their Hearers that those Thoughts are as the Replier says Opinions Interpretations and Consequences of their own concerning our Doctrine and not our avow'd Doctrine But that we think as ill of those Crimes which they charge as they themselves do and that We our Doctrine and Practices are as free from them as They think of their own and that in this consists the Difference betwixt us These are but very Reasonable Requests I think and what every Man may very well expect from his Christian Neighbour they being not so much Favours as Duties And what every one who understands that Golden Rule of Doing as they would be done by will comply with without long entreaties This is desir'd by those of the Reformation too who require in their Synod of Dort that None judge of the Faith of their Churches from Calumnies pick'd up here and there or passages of Particular Authors which are often falsly cited or wrested to a sence contrary to their Intention But from the Confessions of Faith of their Churches and from the Declarataion of their Orthodox Doctrine unanimously made in that Synod And this is a caution of so great importance that where 't is not observ'd 't is no wonder to see Men contending for the Truth of Christianity and to lose it amidst their Uncharitable Dissentions 'T was my intention not to increase but to diminish these heats and for this end I put forth the double Character of a Papist Mis-represented and Represented 'T was this was the design of the Bishop of Condom in his Exposition of the Faith of the Catholick Church and of the Clergy of France in the Acts of the General Assembly lately publish'd The method is inoffensive and free from provoking Reflections and if by this I have let the World know what our Church Believes and Teaches 't is what I intended And as for Disputing I leave that to such who think it worth their while FINIS p. 1. p. 10. p. 3. p. 3. p. 4. p. 2. 3. p. 2. P. 3. p. 2. P. 3. P. 4 5. New Edit p. 50. p. 40. p. 40. p. 51. p. 53. p. 55. p. 54. p. 63. p. 66. p. 67. Def. p. 862. 603. Mat. 5. 24. Mat. 23. 10. Mat. 5. 37. Conel Syn.