esteem both with the Emperor and our great King Alfred He was accounted a Saint and a Martyr his memory was celebrated by an Anniversary on the tenth of November He was also very learned in the Greek and other Oriental Tonguâ—s which was a rare thing in that Age. This Erigena did formally refute Paschase's Opinion assert ours It is true his Book is now lost being 200 years after burned by the C. of Vercel but though the Church of Lyons does treat him very severely in their Book against him and fastens many strange opinions upon him in which there are good grounds to think they did him wrong yet they no where chalenge him for what he wrote about the Sacrament which shews they did not condemn him for that though they speak of him with great animosity because he had written against Predestination and Grace efficacious of it self which they defended It seems most probable that it was from his Writings that the Homily read at Easter by the Saxons here in England does so formally contradict the Doctrine of Transubstantiation And now let the Reader judge if it be not clear that Paschase did innovate the Doctrine of the Church in this point but was vigorously opposed by all the great men of that Age. For the following Age all Historians agree it was an Age of most prodigious Ignorance and Debauchery and that amongst all sorts of people none being more signally vicious than the Clergy and of all the Clergy none so much as the Popes who were such a succession of Monsters that Baronius cannot forbear making the saddest exclamations possible concerning their cruelties debaucheries and other vices So that then if at any time we may conclude all were asleep and no wonder if the tares Paschase had sown did grow up and yet of the very few writings of the Age that remain the far greater number seem to favour the Doctrine of Bertram But till Berengarius his time we hear nothing of any contest about the Eucharist So here were two hundred years spent in an absolute ignorance and forgetfulness of all divine things About the middle of the 11th Cent. Bruno Bishop of Angiers and Berengarius who was born in Towrs but was Arch-Deacon and Treasurer of the Church of Angiers did openly teach that Christ was in the Sacrament only in a Figure We hear little more of Bruno but Berengarius is spoken of by many Historians as a man of great Learning and Piety and that when he was cited to the Council at Rome before Nicolaus the second none could resist him that he had an excellent faculty of speaking and was a man of great Gravity that he was held a Saint by many He did abound in Charity Humility and good Works and was so chast that he would not look at a beautiful woman And Hildebert Bishop of Mans whom S. Bernard commends highly made such an Epitaph on him that notwithstanding all the abatements we must make for Poetry yet no man could write so of an ordinary person This Berengarius wrote against the corporal Presence calling it a stupidity of Paschase's and Lanfrank's who denied that the substance of Bread and Wine remained after Consecration He had many followers as Sigebert tells us And William of Malmesbury and Matthew Paris tell us his Doctrine had overspred all France It were too long to shew with what impudent corrupting of Antiquity those who wrote against him did stuff up their Books Divers Councils were held against him and he through fear did frequently waver for when other Arguments proved too weak to convince him then the Faggot which is the sure and beloved Argument of that Church prevailed on his fears so that he burnt his own Book and signed the condemnation of his own Opinion at Rome this he did as Lanfranke upbraids him not for love of the Truth but for fear of Death which shewes he had not that love of the Truth and constancy of mind he ought to have had But it is no prejudice against the Doctrine he taught that he was a man not only subject to but overcome by so great a temptation for the fear of death is natural to all men And thus we see that in the ninth Century our Doctrine was taught by the greatest writers of that time so that it was then generally received and not at all condemned either by Pope or Council But in the eleventh Century upon its being defended it was condemned Can there be therefore any thing more plain than that there was a change made and that what in the one Age was taught by a grea number of writers without any censure upon it was in another Age anathematized Is there not then here a clear change And what has been done was certainly possible from whence we conclude with all the justice and reason in the world that a change was not only possible but was indeed made And yet the many repeated condemnations of Berengarius shew his Doctrine was too deeply rooted in the minds of that Age to be very easily suppressed for to the end of the eleventh Century the Popes continued to condemn his Opinions even after his death In the beginning of the twelfth Century Honorius of Autun who was a considerable man in that Age did clearly assert the Doctrine of the Sacraments nourishing our Bodies and is acknowledged by Thomas Waldensis to have been a follower of Berengarius his Heresie And about the eighteenth year of that Age that Doctrine was embraced by great numbers in the South of France who were from their several Teachers called Petrobrusians Henricians Waldenses and from the Countrey where their numbers were greatest Albigenses whose Confession dated the year 1120 bears That the eating of the Sacramental Bread was the eating of Iesus Christ in a figure Jesus Christ having said as oft as ye do this do it in remembrance of me It were needless to engage in any long account of these people the Writers of those times have studied to represent them in as hateful and odious Characters as it was possible for them to devise and we have very little remaining that they wrote Yet as the false Witnesses that were suborned to lay heavy things to our Blessed Saviour's Charge could not agree among themselves so for all the spite with which these Writers prosecute those poor Innocents there are such noble Characters given even by these enemies of their piety their simplicity their patience constancy and other virtues that as the Apologists for Christianity do justly glory in the testimonies Pliny Lucian Tacitus Iosephus and other declared Enemies give so any that would study to redeem the memory of those multitudes from the black aspersions of their foul-mouthed Enemies would find many passages among them to glory much in on their behalf which are much more to be considered than those virulent Calumnies with which they labour to blot their Memories But neither the death of Peter de Bruis who was burnt nor
IMPRIMATUR June 1. 1676. G. Jane R. P. D. Hen. Epis. Lond. a sac dom A RELATION OF A Conference Held About RELIGION At LONDON the Third of April 1676. By Edw. Stillingfleet D.D. and Gilbert Burnet with some Gentlemen of the Church of ROME LONDON Printed and are to be sold by Moses Pitt at the Angel against the little North-door of S. Paul's Church M DC LXXVI THE CONTENTS THE Preface The Relation of the Conference An addition by N. N. to what was then said An answer to that addition A Letter demonstrating that the Doctrine of the Church for the first eight Centuries was contrary to Transubstantiation A Discourse to show how unreasonable it is to ask for express words of Scripture in proving all Articles of Faith and that a lust and good consequence from Scripture is sufficient A Discourse to shew that it was not only possible to change the Belief of the Church concerning the manner of Christs presence in the Sacrament but that it is very reasonable to conclude both that it might be done and that it was truly done ERRATA PAge 18. l. 3. said to to be read at the end of l. 4. p. 8. l. 11. after Baptism read Ethiop p. 23. l. 20. for cites read explains p. 26. l. 3. for sayes r. has these words p. 32. l. 26. after the Body of Christ these words are left out is after some manner his Body and the Sacrament of his Blood p. 72. l. 28. for must r. to p. 75. l. 19. for use r. prove p. 86. l. 26. for these r. the. p. 93 l. 7. for yet r. you p. 103. for History r. Heresy p. 135. l. 14. for remained r. appeared in the world p. 140. l. 22. for which r. who The rest the reader will correct as he goes through THE PREFACE TThere is nothing that is by a more universal agreement decried than conferences about controversies of Religion and no wonder for they have been generally managed with so much heat and passion parties being more concerned for Glory and Victory than Truth and there is such foul dealing in the accounts given of them that it is not strange to see these prejudices taken up against them And yet it cannot be denied but if Men of Candor and Calmness should discourse about matters of Religion without any other interest than to seek and follow Truth there could not be a more effectual and easy way found for satisfying scruples More can be said in one hour than read in a day Besides that what is said in a discourse discretely managed does more appositely meet with the doubtings and difficulties any body is perplexed with than is possibly to be found in a book and since almost all Books disguise the opinions of those that differ from them and represent their arguments as weak and their opinions as odious Conferences between those of different perswasions do remedy all these evils But after all the advantages of this way it must be confessed that for the greater part Men are so engaged to their opinions by interest and other ties that in Conferences most persons are resolved before-hand to yield to no conviction but to defend every thing being only concerned to say so much as may darken weaker minds that are witnesses and give them some occasion to triumph at least conceal any foil they may have received by wrapping up some pittiful shift or other in such words and pronouncing them with such accents of assurance and perhaps scorn that they may seem to come off with victory And it is no less frequent to see Men after they have been so baffled that all discerning witnesses are ashamed of them yet being resolved to make up with impudence what is wanting in Truth as a Coward is generally known to boast most where he has least cause publish about what feats they have done and tell every body they see how the cause in their mouth did triumph over their enemies that so the praise of the defeat given may be divided between the cause and themselves and though in modesty they may pretend to ascribe all to Truth and the faith they contended for yet in their hearts they desire the greatest part be offered to themselves All these considerations with a great many more did appear to us when the Lady T. asked us if we would speak with her Husband and some others of the Church of Rome as well for clearing such scruples as the perpetual converse with those of that Religion had raised in the Lady as for satisfying her Husband of whose being willing to receive instruction she seemed confident Yet being well assured of the Ladies great candor and worth and being willing to stand up for the Vindication and Honour of our Church whatever might follow on it we promised to be ready to wait on her at her house upon advertisement without any nice treating before-hand what we should confer about Therefore we neither asked who should be there nor what number nor in what method or on what particulars our discourse should run but went thither carrying only one Friend along with us for a witness If the discourse had been left to our managing we resolved to have insisted chiefly on the corruptions in the worship of the Roman Church to have shewed on several Heads that there was good cause to reform these abuses and that the Bishops and Pastors of this Church the Civil Authority concurring had sufficient authority for reforming it These being the material things in controversy which must satisfy every person if well made out we intended to have discoursed about them but being put to answer we followed those we had to deal with But that we may not forestal the Reader in any thing that passed in the Ladies chamber which he will find in the following account we had no sooner left her house but we resumed among our selves all had passed that it might be written down what ever should follow to be published if need were So we agreed to meet again three days after to compare what could be written down with our memories And having met an account was read which did so exactly contain all that was spoken as far as we could remember that after a few additions we all Three Signed the Narrative then agreed to Few days had passed when we found we had need of all that care and caution for the matter had got wind and was in every bodies Mouth Many of our best Friends know how far we were from talking of it for till we were asked about it we scarce opened our Mouths of it to any Person But when it was said that we had been baffled and foiled it was necessary for us to give some account of it Not that we were much concerned in what might be thought of us but that the most excellent cause of our Church and Religion might not suffer by the misrepresentations of this conference And the truth was there was so little said
by seven or eight ages was contrary to Transubstantiation which we sent to the Lady on the seventeenth of April to be communicated to them And therefore though our Conference was generally talked of and all Persons desired an account of it might be published yet we did delay it till we should hear from them And meeting on the twenty ninth of April with him who is marked N. N. in the account of the Conference I told him the foolish talk was made by their Party about this Conference had set so many on us who all called to us to print the account of it that we were resolved on it But I desired he might any time between and Trinity Sunday bring me what exceptions He or the other Gentlemen had to the account we sent them which he confessed he had seen So I desired that by that day I might have what additions they would make either of what they had said but was forgot by us or what they would now add upon second thoughts but longer I told him I could not delay the publishing it I desired also to know by that time whether they intended any answer to the Account we sent them of the Doctrine of the Fathers about Transubstantiation He confessed he had seen that Paper But by what he then said it seemed they did not think of any answer to it And so I waited still expecting to hear from him At length on the twentieth of May N. N came to me and told me some of these Gentlemen were out of Town and so he would not take on him to give any thing in writing yet he desired me to take notice of some particulars he mentioned which I intreated he would write down that he might not complain of my misrepresenting what he said This he declined to do so I told him I would set it down the best way I could and desired him to call again that he might see if I had written it down faithfully which he promised to do that same afternoon and was as good as his word and I read to him what is subjoined to the relation of the conference which he acknowledged was a faithful account of what he had told me I have considered it I hope to the full so that it gave me more occasion of canvassing the whole matter And thus the Reader will find a great deal of reason to give an entire credit to this relation since we have proceeded in it with so much candor that it is plain we intended not to abuse the credulity of any but were willing to offer this account to the censure of the adverse party and there being nothing else excepted against it that must needs satisfy every reasonable man that all is true that he has here offered to his perusal And if these Gentlemen or any of their friends publish different or contrary Relations of this Conference without that fair and open way of procedure which we have observed towards them we hope the Reader will be so just as to consider that our method in publishing this account has been candid and plain and looks like men that were doing an honest thing of which they were neither afraid nor ashamed which cannot in reason be thought of any surreptitious account that like a work of darkness may be let fly abroad without the name of any person to answer for it on his Conscience or reputation and that at least he will suspend his belief till a competent time be given to shew what mistake or errors any such relation may be guilty of We do not expect the Reader shall receive great Instructions from the following Conference for the truth is we met with nothing but shufling So that he will find when ever we came to discourse closely to any head they very dextrously went off from it to another and so did still shift off from following any thing was suggested But we hope every Reader will be so just to us as to acknowledge it was none of our fault that we did not canvass things more exactly for we proposed many things of great Importance to be discoursed on but could never bring them to fix on any thing And this did fully satisfy the Lady T. when she saw we were ready to have justified our Church in all things but that they did still decline the entering into any matter of weight So that it appeared both to her and the rest of the company that what boastings soever they spread about as if none of us would or durst appear in a conference to vindicate our Church all were without ground and the Lady was by the blessing of God further confirmed in the truth in which we hope God shall continue her to her lifes end But we hope the letter and the two discourses that follow will give the Reader a more profitable entertainment In the letter we give many short hints and set down some select passages of the Fathers to shew they did not believe Transubstantiation Upon all which we are ready to join issue to make good every thing in that paper from which we believe it is apparent the primitive Church was wholly a stranger to Transubstantiation It was also judged necessary by some of our Friends that we should to purpose and once for all expose and discredit that unreasonable demand of shewing all the Articles of our Church in the express words of Scripture upon which the first discourse was written And it being found that no answer was made to what N. N. said to shew that it was not possible the Doctrine of Transubstantiation could have crept into any age if those of that age had not had it from their Fathers and they from theirs up to the Apostles dayes this being also since our Conference laid home to me by the same person it was thought fit to give a full account how this Doctrine could have been brought into the Church that so a change â—ay appear to have been not only possible but also probable and therefore the second discourse was written If these discourses have not that full finishing and life which the Reader would desire he must regrate his misfortune in this that the person who was best able to have written them and given them all possible advantages out of that vast stock of learning and judgment he is master of was so taken up with other work cut out for him by some of these Gentlemens Friends of which we shall see an excellent account very speedily that it was not possible for him to spare so much time for writing these so that it fell to the others share to do it and therefore the reader is not to expect any thing like those high strains of wit and reason which fill all that Authors writings but must give allowance to one that studies to follow him though at a great distance Therefore all can be said from him is that what is here performed was done by his direction and approbation
S. then at great length told them The Church of Rome and the Church of England differed in many great and weighty points that we were come thither to see as these Gentlemen professed they desired if we could offer good reason for them to turn Protestants and as the Ladies professed a desire to be further established in the Doctrine of the Church of England In order to which none could think it a proper method to pick out some words in the obscure corner of an Article and call for express Scriptures for them But the fair and fit way was to examine whether the Church of England had not very good reason to separate from the Communion of the Church of Rome therefore since it was for truth in which ourSouls are so deeply concerned that we enquired he desired they would join issue to examine either the grounds on which the Church of England did separate from the Church of Rome or the authority by which she did it for if there was both good reason for it and if those who did it had a sufficient authority to do it then was the Church of England fully vindicated He did appeal to all that were present if in this offer he dealt not candidly and fairly and if all other ways were not shufling Which he pressed with great earnestness as that only which could satisfy all peoples consciences M. W. and S. P. T. said God forbid they should speak one word for the Church of Rome they understood the danger they should run by speaking to that D. S. said He hoped they looked on us as Men of more Conscience and Honesty than to make an ill use of any thing they might say for their Church that for himself he would die rather than be guilty of so base a thing the very thought whereof he abhorred M. B. said That though the Law condemned the endeavouring to reconcile any to the Church of Rome yet their justifying their Church when put to it especially to Divines in order to satisfaction which they professed they desired could by no colour be made a transgression And that as we engaged our Faith to make no ill use of what should be said so if they doubted any of the other Company it was S. P. his house and he might order it to be more private if he pleased S. P. Said he was only to speak to the Articles of the Church of England and desired express words for that Article Upon this followed a long wrangling the same things were said over and over again In the end M. W. said they had not asked where that Article was read that they doubted of it for they knew it was in no place of Scripture in which they were the more confirmed because none was so much as alledged D. S. said Upon the terms in the 6. Article he was ready to undertake the 28. Article to prove it clearly by Scripture M. W. said But there must be no interpretations admitted of M. B. said It was certain the Scriptures were not given to us as Pariots are taught to speak words we were endued with a faculty of understanding and we must understand somewhat by every place of Scripture Now the true meaning of the words being that which God would teach us in the Scriptures which way soever that were expressed is the Doctrine revealed there and it was to be considered that the Scriptures were at first delivered to plain and simple men to be made use of by all without distinction therefore we were to look unto them as they did and so S. Paul wrote his Epistles which were the hardest pieces of the New Testament to all in the Churches to whom he directed them M. W. said The Epistles were written upon emergent occasions and so were for the use of the Churches to whom they were directed D. S. said Though they were written upon emergent occasions yet they were written by Divine inspiration and as a Rule of Faith not only for those Churches but for all Christians But as M. W. was a going to speak M. C. came in upon which we all rose up till he was set So being set after some Civilities D. S. resumed a little what they were about and told they were calling for express Scriptures to prove the Articles of our Church by M. C. said If we be about Scriptures where is the Judge that shall pass the Sentence who expounds them aright otherwise the contest must be endless D. S. said He had proposed a matter that was indeed of weight therefore he would first shew that these of the Church of Rome were not provided of a sufficient or fit Judge of Controversies M. C. said That was not the thing they were to speak to for though we destroyed the Church of Rome all to nought yet except we built up our own we did nothing therefore he desired to hear what we had to say for our own Church he was not to meddle with the Church of Rome but to hear and be instructed if he could see reason to be of the Church of England for may be it might be somewhat in his way D. S. said He would not examine if it would be in his way to be of the Church of England or not but did heartily acknowledge with great civility that he was a very fair dealer in what he had proposed and that now he had indeed set us in the right way and the truth was we were extream glad to get out of the wrangling we had been in before and to come to treat of matters that were of importance So after some civilities had passed on both sides D. S. said The Bishops and Pastors of the Church of England finding a great many abuses crept into the Church particularly in the worship of God which was chiefly insisted upon in the reformation such as the images of the blessed Trinity the worship whereof was set up and encouraged The turning the devotions we ought to offer only to Christ to the blessed Virgin the Angels and Saints That the worship of God was in an unknown tongue That the Chalice was taken from the people against the express words of the institution That Transubstantiation and the sacrifice of the Mass were set up That our Church had good reason to judge these to be heinous abuses which did much endanger the Salvation of Souls therefore being the Pastors of the Church and being assisted in it by the Civil powers they had both good reason and sufficient authority to reform the Church from these abuses and he left it to M. C. to chuse on which of these particulars they should discourse M. B. said The Bishops and Pastors having the charge of Souls were bound to feed the flock with sound Doctrine according to the word of God So S. Paul when he charged the Bishops of Ephesus to feed the flock and to guard against Wolves or Seducers he commends them to the word of Gods Grace which is the Gospel
person the most trifling and pitiful Objection that can be offered by men of common sense and reason And therefore it is hoped that all persons who take any care of their souls will examine things more narrowly than to suffer such tricks to pass upon them or to be shaken by such Objections And if all the scruple these Gentlemen have why they do not joyn in Communion with the Church of Eâ—glâ—nd lies in this we expect they shall find it so entirely satisfied and removed out of the way that they shall think of returning back to that Church where they had their Baptism and Christian Education and which is still ready to receive them with open arms and to restore such as have been over-reached into Error and Heresy with the spirit of meekness To which I pray God of his great mercy dispose both them and all others who upon these or such like scruples have deserted the purest Church upon Earth and have turned over to a most impure and corrupt Society And let all men say Amen A Discourse to shew that it was not only possible to change the Belief of the Church concerning the manner of Christ's Presence in the Sacrament but that it is very reasonable to conclude both that it might be done and that it was truly changed THere is only one Particular of any importance that was mentioned in the Conference to which we forgot to make any Answer at all which was spoken by N.N. to this purpose How was it possible or to be imagined that the Church of God could ever have received such a Doctrine as the belief of Transubstantiation if every age had not received it and been instructed in it by their Fathers and the Age that went before it This by a pure forgetfulness was not answered and one of these Gentlemen took notice of it to me meeting with me since that time and desired me to consider what a friend of N. N. has lately printed on this Subject in a Letter concerning Transubstantiation Directed to a Person of Honour In which a great many pretended Impossibilities of any such Innovation of the Doctrine are reckoned up to shew it a thing both inconceivable and unpracticable to get the Faith of the Church changed in a thing of this nature This same Plea has been managed with all the advantages possible both of Wit Eloquence and Learning by Mr. Arnaud of the Sorbon but had been so exposed and baffled by Mr. Claud who as he equals the other in Learning Eloquence and Wit so having much the better of him in the Cause and Truth he vindicates has so foiled the other in this Plea that he seeing no other way to preserve that high reputation which his other Writings and the whole course of his Life had so justly acquired him has gone off from the main Argument on which they begun and betaken himself to a long and unprofitable Enquiry into the belief of the Greek Church since her schisme from the Latine Church The Contest has been oft renewed and all the ingenious and learned persons of both sides have looked on with great expectations Every one must confess M. Arnaud has said all can be said in such a Cause yet it seems he finds himself often pinched by the bitter I had almost said scurrilous reproaches he casts on Mr. Claud which is very unbecoming the Education and other noble Qualities of that great man whom for his Book of Frequent Communion I shall ever honour And it is a thing much to be lamented that he was taken off from these more useful Labours wherein he was engaged so much to the bettering this Age both in discovering the horrid corruption of the Jesuits and other Casuists not only in their Speculations about Casuistical Divinity but in their hearing Confessions and giving easie Absolutions upon trifling Penances and granting Absolutions before the Penance was performed and in representing to us the true Spirit of Holiness and Devotion was in the Primitive Church But on the other hand as Mr. Claud leaves nothing unsaid in a method fully answerable to the excellence of that truth he defends so he answers these reproaches in a way worthy of himself or rather of Christ and the Gospel If those excellent Writings were in English I should need to say nothing to a point that has been so canvassed but till some oblige this Nation by translating them I shall say so much on this Head as I hope shall be sufficient to convince every body of the emptiness weakness and folly of this Plea And first of all In a matter of fact concerning a change made in the Belief of the Church the only certain method of enquiry is to consider the Doctrine of the Church in former Ages and to compare that with what is now received and if we see a difference between these we are sure there has been a change though we are not able to shew by what steps it was made nay though we could not so much as make it appear probable that such a change could be made To instance this in a plain case of the change of the English Language since the dayes of William the Conqueror that there has no such swarm of Foreigners broke in upon this Island as might change our Language One may then argue thus Every one speaks the Language he heard his Parents his Nurses and others about him speak when he was a Child and this he continues to speak all his life and his Children speak as they heard him speak Upon which a man of wit and phancy might say a great many things to shew it impossible any such change should ever have been made as that we now should speak so as not to understand what was said five or six hundred years ago Yet if I find Chaucer or any much ancienter Book so written that I can hardly make a shift to understand it from thence without any further reasoning how this could be brought about I naturally must conclude our Language is altered And if any man should be so impertinent as to argue that could not be for Children speak as their Nurses and Parents taught them I could hardly answer him in patience but must tell him it is altered without more ado If a Child were amused with such pretended Impossibilities I would tell him that Strangers coming among us and our travelling to parts beyond the Seas made us acquainted with other Languages and Englishmen finding in other Tongues some words and phrases which they judged more proper than any they had being also fond of new words there was an insensible change made in every Age which after five or six Ages is more discernable Just so if I find most of all the Fathers either delivering their Opinions clearly in this matter against the Doctrine of the Roman Church or saying things utterly inconsistent with it I am sure there has been a change made though I could not shew either the whole progress of
the Decree runs chiefly against such yet there are two Clauses in it that go further one is in these words Saving alwayes the Right of the Principal Lord provided he make no obstacle about it nor cast in any impediment Whence it plainly follows that if the Soveraign such as the King of France in the case of Tholouse did make any Obstacle he forfeited his Right The other clause is in these words The same Law being nevertheless observed about those who have no principal Lords In which are clearly included all those Soveraigns who depend and hold their Crowns immediately from God Now it is apparent the Design of these words so couched was once to bring all Soveraigns under that lash before they were aware of it for had they named Emperors and Kings they might reasonably have expected great opposition from them but insinuating it so covertly it would pass the more easily Yet it is plain nothing else can be meant or was intended by it so that it is clear that the fourth Council of Lateran as it established Transubstantiation so did also Decree both Persecution and Rebellion Therefore the Reader may easily judge what account is to be made of that Council and what security any State can have of those who adhere to it Our Saviour when he states the opposition between the Children of God and the Children of the Devil he gives this for the Character of the latter that they did the works of their Father and these he mentions are Lying and Murdering We have seen sufficient evidence of the murdering Spirit which acted in that Church when this Doctrine was set up But to compleat that black Character let us but look over to the Council of Constance which decreed that bold violation of the Command of Christ Drink ye all of it by taking the Chalice from the Laity And there we find Perfidy which is the basest and worst kind of Lying also established by Law For it was Decreed by them That all safe Conducts notwithstanding or by what Bonds soever any Prince had engaged himself the Council was no way prejudiced and that the Iudge competent might enquire into their Errors and proceed otherwise duly against them and punish them according to Iustice if they stubbornly refuse to retract their Errours although trusting to their safe Conduct they had come to the place of Iudgment and had not come without it and Declare That whoever had promised any such thing to them having done what in him lay was under no further Obligation Upon which Sigismund broke his Faith to Iohn Hus and Ierome of Prague and they were burnt So that their Church having in General Councils Decreed both Perfidy and Cruelty it is easie to infer by what Spirit they are acted and whose Works they did If then they did the Works of the Devil who was a Liar and Murderer from the beginning they cannot be looked on as the Children of God but as the Children of the Devil If this seem too severe it is nothing but what the force of Truth draws from me being the furthest in the world from that uncharitable temper of aggravating things beyond what is just but the Truth must be heard and the Lamb of God could call the Scribes and Pharisees a Generation of Vipers and Children of the Devil Therefore if a Church be so notoriously guilty of the most Infamous Violation of all the Laws of Humanity and the security which a publick faith must needs give none is to be blamed for laying open and exposing such a Society to the just censure of all impartial Persons that so every one may see what a hazard his soul runs by engaging in the Communion of a Church that is so foully guilty for these were not personal failings but were the Decrees of an authority which must be acknowledged by them Infallible if they be true to their own principles So that if they receive these as General Councils I know not how they can clear all that Communion from being involved in the guilt of what they Decreed Thus far we hope it hath been made evident enough that there are no impossibilities in such a change of the Doctrine of the Church about this Sacrament as they imagine And that all these are but the effects of wit and fancy and vanish into nothing when closely canvassed I have not dwelt so long on every step of the History I have vouched as was necessary designing to be as short as was possible and because these things have been at full length set down by others and particularly in that great and learned work of Albertin a French Minister concerning this Sacrament In which the Doctrines of the Primitive Church and the steps of the change that was made are so laid open that no man has yet so much as attempted the answering him and those matters of fact are so uncontestedly true that there can be little debate about them but what may be very soon cleared and I am ready to make all good to a tittle when any shall put me to it It being apparent then that the Church of Rome has usurped an undue and unjust authority over the other States and Nations of Christendom and has made use of this Dominion to introduce many great corruptions both in the Faith the Worship and Government of the Church nothing remains but to say a little to justify this Churches Reforming these abuses And First I suppose it will be granted that a National Church may judge a Doctrine to be Heretical when its opposition to the Scripture Reason and the Primitive Doctrine is apparent for in that case the Bishops and Pastors being to feed and instruct the Church they must do it according to their Consciences otherwise how can they discharge the Trust God and the Church commit to their charge And thus all the ancient Hereticks such as Samosatenus Arrius Pelagius and a great many more were first condemned in Provincial Councils Secondly if such Heresies be spread in places round about the Bishops of every Church ought to do what they can to get others concur with them in the condemning them but if they cannot prevail they ought nevertheless to purge themselves and their own Church for none can be bound to be damned for company The Pastors of every Church owe a Charity to their neighbour Churches but a Debt to their own which the Stubborness of others canot excuse them from And so those Bishops in the Primitive Church that were environed with Arrians did reform their own Churches when they were placed in any Sees that had been corrupted by Arrianism Thirdly No time can give prescription against truth and therefore had any errour been ever so antiently received in any Church yet the Pastors of that Church finding it contrary to truth ought to reform it the more antient or inveterate any errour is it needs the more to be looked to So those Nations that were long bred up in Arrianism had
good reason to reform from that errour So the Church of Rome will ackowledge that the Greek Church or our Church ought to forsake their present Doctrines though they have been long received Fourthly No later Definitions of Councils or Fathers ought to derogate from the ancienter Decrees of Councils or opinions of the Fathers otherwise the Arrians had reason to have justified their submitting to the Councils of Sirmium Arimini and Millan and rejecting that of Nice therefore we ought in the first place to consider the Decrees and opinions of the most Primitive antiquity Fifthly No succession of Bishops how clear so ever in its descent from the Apostles can secure a Church from errour Which the Church of Rome must acknowledge since they can neither deny the succession of the Greek Church nor of the Church of England Sixthly If any Church continues so hardned in their errours that they break Communion with another Church for reforming the guilt of this breach must lie at their door who are both in the Errour and first reject the other and refuse to reform or communicate with other Churches Upon every one of these particulars and they all set together compleat the plea for the Church of England I am willing to joyn Issue and shew they are not only true in themselves but must be also acknowledged by the Principles of the Church of Rome So that if the grounds of controversy on which our Reformation did proceed were good and justifiable it is most unreasonable to say our Church had not good right and authority to make it It can be made appear that for above two hundred years before the Reformation there were general complaints among all sorts of pesons both tho subtle Schoolmen and devout Contemplatives both Ecclesiasticks and Laicks did complain of the corruptions of the Church and called aloud for a Reformation both of Faith and Manners even the Council of Pisa a little before Luthers days did Decree There should be a Reformation both of Faith and Manners and that both of the Head and Members But all these complaints turned to nothing abuses grew daily the interests of the Nephews and other corrupt intrigues of the Court of Rome always obstructing good motions and cherishing ill Customs for they brought the more Grist to their Mill. When a Reformation was first called for in Germany instead of complying with so just a desire all that the Court of Rome thought on was how to suppress these complaints and destroy those who made them In end when great Commotions were like to follow by the vast multitudes of those who concurred in this desire of Reforming a Council was called after the Popes had frequently prejudged in the matter and Pope Leo had with great frankness condemned most of Luthers opinions From that Council no good could reasonably be expected for the Popes had already engaged so deep in the quarrel that there was no retreating and they ordered the matter so that nothing could be done but what they had a mind to all the Bishops were at their Consecration their sworn vassals nothing could be brought into the Council without the Legates had proposed it And when any good motions were made by the Bishops of Spain or Germany they had so many poor Italian Bishops kept there on the Popes charges that they were always masters of the vote for before they would hold a Session about any thing they had so canvassed it in the Congregations that nothing was so much as put to the hazard All these things appear even from Cardinal Pallavicini's History of that Council While this Council was sitting and some years before many of this Church were convinced of these corruptions and that they could not with a good Conscience joyn any longer in a worship so corrupted yet they were satisfied to know the truth themselves and to instruct others privately in it but formed no separated Church waiting for what issue God in his Providence might bring about But with what violence and cruelty their enemies who were generally those of the Clergy pursued them is well enough known Nor shall I repeat any thing of it lest it might be thought an invidious aggravating of things that are past But at length by the death of King Henry the eighth the Government fell in the hands of persons well affected to the Reformation It is not material what their true motives were for Jehu did a good work when he destroyed the Idolatry of Baal though neither his motives nor method of doing it are justifiable nor is it to the purpose to examine how those Bishops that reformed could have complied before with the corruptions of the Roman Church and received orders from them Meletius and Felix were placed by the Arrians the one at Antioch in the room of Eustathius the other at Rome in Liberius his room who were both banished for the Faith and yet both these were afterwards great Defenders of the truth and Felix was a martyr for it against these very Hereticks with whom they complied in the beginning So whatever mixture of carnal ends might be in any of the Secular men or what allay of humane infirmity and fear might have been in any of the Ecclesiasticks that can be no prejudice to the cause for men are always men and the power of God does often appear most eminently when there is least cause to admire the instruments he makes use of But in that juncture of affairs the Bishops and Clergy of this Church seeing great and manifest corruptions in it and it being apparent that the Church of Rome would consent to no reformation to any good purpose were obliged to reform and having the Authority of King and Parliament concurring they had betrayed their consciences and the charge of Souls for which they stood engaged and were to answer at the great day if they had dallied longer and not warned the people of their danger and made use of the inclinations of the Civil Powers for carrying on so good a work And it is the lasting glory of the reformation that when they saw the Heir of the Crown was inflexibly united to the Church of Rome they proceeded not to extream courses against her for what a few wrought on by the ambition of the Duke of Northumberland were got to do was neither the deed of the Nation nor of the Church since the Representatives of neither concurred in it But the Nation did receive the righteous Heir and then was our Church crowned with the highest glory it could have desired many of the Bishops who had been most active in the Reformation sealing it with their blood and in death giving such evident proofs of holy and Christian constancy that they may be justly matched with the most Glorious Martyrs of the Primitive Church Then did both these Churches appear in their true colours That of Rome weltring in the blood of the Saints and insatiately drinking it up and our Church bearing the Cross of