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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A12472	The doctrine of praier in generall for all men, that is, vniuersally for all mankind: Proued 1. By the true sence of the words if the Apostle 1. Tim 2. 2. By the reasons, why all men in that since should be praid for. 3. By the doctrine establishing such praier. 4. By the practises of churches, concerning that kind of praier. 5. By the obiections, ansuered. Against the position of those that say and preach, that all men are not to be praid for. By I. Smith, minister of Gods word at Reading.	Smith, John, minister at Reading.; Smith, John, 1563-1616.	1595 (1595)	STC 22797; ESTC S102599	80,671	127

all the world to euery creature shall the word be thy power to saluation to all that beleeue of the Iew first and also of the Gentile Shall the Apostles then goe into all the world and shall I be an Apostle of the Gentiles to set forth these glad tidings amongst them surely then shal I teach the vnrighteous thy waies and sinners shall be conuerted vnto thee And then let the Gentiles praise God for his mercie as it is writen For this cause I will confesse thee among the Gentiles and sing vnto thy name And again he saith Reioice yee Gentiles with his people And again Praise the Lord All ye Gentiles and laud ye him all ye people together And againe Esaias saith There shall be the root of Iesse and he that shall rise to raigne ouer the Gentiles in him shall the Gentils trust Then O Lord shew thy seruants thy worke and their children thy glorie And the glorious maiestie of the Lord our God be vpon vs prosper thou the worke of our hands vpon vs O prosper thou our handy work Let me care for all congregations let mee learne in what estate so euer I am to be content let me be made all thinges to all men that I might by all meanes saue some And first then I giue in precept vnto thy church concerning the truth of thy word and doctrine and I say vnto Timothie So doe that thou warne some that they teach none other doctrine neither that they giue heed vnto fables and genealogies which are endles which breed questions rather then godly edifieng which is by faith For the end of the commandement is loue out of a pure heart and a good conscience and of faith vnfeined c. Then after ye haue had a special care for the soundnes of the truth and wholsome doctrine I exhort that first of all supplications praiers intercessions and giuing of thanks be made for al men For kings and for all that are in authoritie c. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our sauiour who will that all men shall be saued and come vnto the acknowledging of the truth Thus the Apostle according to the instruction giuen vnto him establisheth not only in the church of Ephesus but in the same in the whole church of Christ that there be not only sound doctrine established but also publike praier for all estates and all mankind vniuersally For God inuiteth them and calleth them to bee partakers of his sauing health And great reason it should be according to the patterne set downe and will of the Lord the maine ground and foundation whereof is this To whomsoeuer the word and sacraments doe belong for them we ought to pray But the word and sacraments doe belong to all the world to all nations to all creatures Therefore wee ought to pray for all the world for all nations for all creatures The Apostle in this calling counteth it not a time to desseuer them whom God in the participation of his promises of his word and sacraments and in the preaching of the acceptable yeare of the Lord hath ioined and knit together and therefore would that all might be praied for vnto whom this mercie of the Lord is offered He doubteth not but the foundation of God remaineth sure and hath this seale T●e Lord knoweth who are his but in this charge that is laid vpon him who is offended and S. Paul burne not and therefore according to the will of the Lord he would haue all know him and come vnto the truth Againe the Apostle by the spirit of the Lord saw the wonderfull effects that should grow and spring from the preaching of the gospell For thereby and by the preaching of the same the fierce lions shall be tamed and made meeke and humble the wolfe and the lambe shall feed together the people that dwell in darkenes shall behold the true light all nations shall see the saluation of our God For this wonderfull worke and building of the Lord hauing the foundation in the great loue of God towards vs is dispensed first by Preaching and Hearing whereby in the effectuall working of the spirit from aboue faith is fashioned in vs For without faith it is impossible to please God Then are we buried with Christ by Baptisme into his death that like as Christ was raised vp from the dead to the glory of the father So we also should walke in newnes of life For to walke in newnes of life is to be to the glorie of the father also according as it is said Let your light so shine before men c. Now then that the law of the spirit of life which is in Christ Iesus hath freed vs from the law of sin and death we must haue our Education in the word and sacraments that wee may grow from faith to faith That wee may ioine vertue with faith and with vertue knowledge and with knowledge temperance and with temperance patience and with pati●nce godlines and with godlines brotherly kindnes and with brotherly kindnes loue that we benot vnfruitfull that Christ Iesus may dwell in vs that we may auoid the danger of sinne that we may be sober and watch for the aduersary as a roaring lion goeth about seeking whom he may deuour him we must resist stedfast in the faith And therefore oft hereunto we must ioine the exercise of the faithfull the participation of the holie supper of the Lord to set forth the death of the Lord till his comming And especiallie herein the ministers of the Lord must not be straunge but to be oft with the people of God partakers and receiuers That the flocke by their example may be more stirred and moued highly to esteeme of the sacraments and the ordinance of God in his church And therfore as one saith Qui autem pastores raro communicant exemplo suo faciunt vt sacramenta veniant paulatium in comtemptum And those shepheards which seldome communicate by their example bring to passe that by little and little the sacraments grow into contempt Herein is also daily rising againe and comming to the Lord to say vnto him Forgiue vs our trespasses And O Lord though our sinnes testifie against vs deale with vs according to thy name for our rebellions are many we haue sinned against thee O the hope of Israel the Sauiour in the time of trouble why art thou as a stranger in the land as one that passeth by to tarrie for a night Why art thou as a man astonied and as a strong man that cannot helpe Yet thou Lord art in the midst of vs and thy name is called vpon forsake vs not c. And the most effectual power of the word preached vnto vs appeareth herein also For in it hope is confirmed and by hope wee are saued by the same worde faith is established and the victorie

vnto him Secondly because in the world are dayly outragious blasphemies and that it runneth on headlong into all kind of wickednesse Death hell and damnation it selfe triumpheth ouer it for the onelie beleeuers for whom Christ praid doe ouercome And for the world he praied not and therefore it abounded in euill For which cause this wo●ld by the iust iudgement of God is turned ouer into a reprobate minde left to his owne lusts and desires and therefore as it liueth in horrible sinnes and abhominations so vnto most horrible iust and seuere iudgement is it turned ouer throwne down and condemned for which cause the sonne of God said I pray not for the world He praieth then for them which the father had giuen him For the wicked world he was not carefull He was carefull for his owne flocke These had forsaken all and followed him to these hee had declared the name of the Lord these had continued with him in his temptations these he kept to send into the world That the world might beleeue by them And as thou didst send me into the world so haue I sent them into the world Such are they whom thou hast giuen to me And for these I pray and lift vp mine eies vnto heauen The Reason followeth For they are thine He calleth them not onely his Disciples because hee trained and taught them to his diuine and heauenly purpose but further entring into the secrets of God beholdeth the wonderfull iudgements of God discerneth and pronounceth of them That those that bee his are indeed Gods also We sillie men pray according to the bare sense and feeling of faith and loue But Christ the sonne of God God and man entreth into the tabernacle of the highest discerneth betweene Election and Reprobation sheweth that these his disciples whome hee hath taken out of the worlde That they are Gods owne setteth forth also him that is none of Gods owne but a Reprobate a lost child as hee saith Those that thou gauest mee haue I kept and none of them is lost but the child of perdition That the Scriptures might be fulfilled Herein then we behold the most wonderfull worke and ministerie of the high Shepherd He is of God and came from God he teacheth he reproueth In the assurance of his diuine knowledge he deuideth his sheep commendeth the elect to God entreateth his Father to preserue them in the world shutteth out and pointeth at the Reprobate the childe of perdition that betraied him A worke I hope that will make all sheepherds and people to stand in awe and feare and not to sute themselues in this worke with Christ Iesus And therefore a learned man saith Precationis autem qua hic refertur alia suit quedam specialis ratio quae in exemplum trahi non dedet Neque enim ex nudo tantum fidei charitatis sensu Christus orat sed adita coelorum ingressus antè oculos habet arcana patris iudicia quaenos latet quamdiu per fiden● ambulamus That is Of the praier which is here specified there was another speciall reason which ought not to bee drawne for an example For Christ praieth not vpon the bare feeling of faith and loue onely but entering into the pallaces of heauen hath the verie secret iudgements of his Father before his eies which things lie hid vnto vs so long as wee haue our conuersation and walke by faith To conclude then let our praiers proceed according to the commaundement of the Lord in ordinarie vocation and calling for to teach so perfectly and to discerne so deepely into Gods secretes or to yeeld vp so exact an account belongeth not vnto vs but that wee must let that alone for euer And thus much for the first part of doctrine now to the next which concerneth Calling Now followeth the second point Namely of praier hauing his foundation in calling Many a one when they talke of Calling do thinke that they speake of some vnperfect easie o●dinarie thing without strangenes without deepe conceit a thing of course that may be drawne too and fro off or on present or absent of some effect or none effect at their owne pleasure and therefore as thinking themselues able to handle greater matters they will enter into Predestination whether he be a reprobate whether such a one be elect I am sure I am chosen and elect I looke into such a man and I see that he bringeth forth the fruits of reprobation Thus man where he should not iudge is very quicke sighted and where he is taught to discerne and iudge indeed there he will not vnderstand but is stark blind For surely Vocation is a most excellent ordinary meane for man and for the church of God to know and discerne the things of God which are prepared for them that loue him on the contra●ie side his iudgements and punishments against those that are despisers and contemners of his truth and Gospell And therefore in vocation to what thing soeuer he would turne himselfe whether it be to behold the goodnes or mercie of God towards mankind either to discerne things concerning himselfe or his brother he shal find it most plentifully taught in the scriptures yea most admirablie set forth if he wil in the spirit of meeknesse and wisdome imploy himselfe and seeke for the same Such kind persons of such peremptorie persuasions are like vnto those that say If I be predestinate to bee saued I shal be saued and thinke it sufficient thus to say They neuer draw neere vnto Christ they examine not whether they be chosen in him whether they be vnder his guard and protection they consider not that they should be holy and without blame before him in loue That they are predestinat to be adopted through Iesus Christ That they should be to the praise of his glorie These things they consider not so in most daungerous sort they intangle themselues being in a maze and cannot get out So likewise these men in predestination in election in reprobation they censure others thinking most weakly of the state of Vocation being indeed the only place where we should behold our selues and others forgetting That since God hath giuen vs his Christ how shall not he with him giue vs all thinges also seeing all power is giuen vnto him both in heauen and in earth and that God hath made him heire of all things Seing therefore that this Lord is vnto vs omnisufficient and most rich and no lesse bountifull then hee is rich to all that call vpon him let vs draw neere then vnto Vocation and see what things hee hath prepared for them that loue him who of God is made vnto vs wisedome and righteousnesse and sanctification and redemption That according as it is written He that reioiceth let him reioice in the Lord. God euen the most mightie God for the gathering of the saints together hath spoken and inuited the world from the rising vp of the sunne

I did the whole seed of Ephraim So that looke how the Lord cast out Ephraim so will hee cast out them and if Ephraim was cast out as Reprobates so shall they be so that we are to consider first what is meant by Ephraim secondly how they were cast out First then Lyra saith Sicut proieci omnes fratres vestros id est decem tribus quae iam erant in captiuitate inter Assirios c. As I cast forth all your brethren that is the ten tribes which now were in captiuity amongst the Assirians c. And the whole seed of Ephraim is said because that tribe was the most principall tribe amongst the ten And because Hieroboam the first king therof was of the tribe of Ephraim Again another saith The whole seed of Ephraim that is the kingdome of the Israelits the part for the whole as Esay 7.8 So then I will cast out the whole seed of Ephraim that is the ten tribes the kingdome of Israel and this is meant by the seed of Ephraim Secondly they were cast out so as we read 2. Reg. 17.18 And he put Israel out of his sight and none was left but the tribe of Iuda only So as we may say of them as the Psalm speaketh of their fathers Thou heardest them O Lord our God thou forgauest them O God and punishedst their own inuentions So as by scripture by the causes or by the effects reprobatisme appeareth not but the most greeuous punishment and hand of God towards them which merciful father grant may work to our amendment Now the third sence is as I haue said the casting out of the vnrighteous froward and reprobate being vessels of wrath prepared to destruction And sometime they are reuealed as inough hath beene said and wee ought not to pray for them But those that are vnreuealed and doe dwell walke and haue their conuersation amongst vs for as much as these thinges are in Gods owne power it is no● knowne to vs whether they shall repent or no and therefore we must vse the rule of charitie and loue towards All men As inough hath beene said For which cause this third way That is either secret to God or reuealed by God is the right casting out of a reprobate indeed and none but this The Maior proposition then must and ought to bee thus Whomsoeuer God hath finally reprobated and cast out of his sight and so declared and reuealed them vnto his church for such we ought not to pray For they must be for euer reiected and they must bee from God reuealed That we may haue our warrant to reiect them also for God reiecteth first then hee maketh it known then we are zealous for our God and we reiect also Now let vs set the argument together Whomsoeuer God hath finally cast out of his sight and so declared and reuealed them vnto his church for such wee ought not to praie The Minor But such are All the reprobat that is the reuealed ones as for the other they are to God and not vnto vs. The conclusion Therfore we ought not to pray for them And this is the truth of it And this much for this Silogisme The eight Obiection ANd yet thus far the scriptures do teach vs to pray for the very knowne enemies of Gods church that the Lord would vouchsafe in his mercie to blesse them with temporall blessings as heal●h and plentie and peace for the churches sake that is among them which is manifest in Ier. 29.7 The Iewes being captiu●s in Babylon are commanded to pray for the prosperity of Babilon His reason is this For in the peace thereof you shall haue peace The Answere They that were carried captiues into Babilon had still mind of returning The Prophet saith vnto them from the Lord Build you houses to dwell in plant set giue your daughters in mariage c. And it followeth and seeke the prosperitie of the citie whether I haue caused you to be carried away captiues and pray vnto the Lord for it for in the peace thereof shall you haue peace This place therefore of Ieremie alleged comprehendeth first a commandement then the circumstance of the place then a second commaund●ment lastly a reason The first precept or commandement is Seeke the prosperitie of the citie God doth no doubt scatter his people amongst other nations that his name might be knowne vnto them that hee might exercise his people with patience and that the good conuersation and behauiour of his people might be an example and a light vnto others to forsake Idolatrie and to know the God of Israel To which end in my opinion one noteth most effectually vpon these words Ius hospitalitatis sincerè vult custodiri quenque animam suam in pati●ntia possidere The people were entred into a strange land they would faine bee returning home as soone as they came thither The Prophet biddeth them settle their hearts giue themselues to their seueral vocations and to seeke the prosperitie of the cittie where they now were noting saith this writer that God would haue kept amongst them inuiolablie and sincerely the right of entertainement or abode among that people and that euery one though he were amongst the prowd and insolent should possesse his soule in patience teaching from the wisdome of God That innocent life and patience in such great oppressions vnder so mightie enemies were worthie vertues to redeeme peace and get fauour Secondly the circumstance of the place is as the late translation of the bible saith Istius ciuitatis id est totius regni Babilonici Sinecdochicè That is seeke the prosperitie of the cittie that is as much to say of the whole kingdome of Babilon c. The part for the whole so that what the Lord commandeth them here must to their possible power reach and stretch to the whole kingdome Thirdly the second precept or commandement is this Pray vnto the Lord for it Or Orate prò ea Iehouam Intreat the Lord for it The Lord saith not here Pray for their welfare onely pray for their peace onely or for their prosperous estate but indefinitly Pray to the Lord for it for the citie for the countrey These two commandements thus differ The first concerneth their manners and behauiour in captiuitie The other their religion Therefore as they differ in work the one imediately respecting man the other imediately respecting God So in the verbe commanding they differ also as Seeke Pray for praying vnto God no doubt may be seeking but all seeking is not praying And therefore as in commanding in matter in manner in effect and end they differ so by no means they must be confounded For in the first commandement it is said Seeke prosperitie But in the second it is not said Pray for prosperitie welfare or so forth but Pray for it And therfore surely this seemeth not a praier for outward things or for temporall blessings

it were so many tyrants oppressors and euen sworne enemies of Christ and of the professors of his holie name The Apostle therefore euen meeteth with this scruple bidding them also to pray for them For surely the wickednesse of men can not cause or worke any thing but that neuerthelesse the ordinance of the Lord is to bee loued and praied for And kings and magistrates are ordained of God For euerie power is of God yea euen the wicked Rulers and gouernors are giuen for the sinnes of the people and his iudgements hanging ouer their heades Now in that he saith For kings and for al that are in authoritie might be good matter found and arguments drawne for the defence of the cause and Praier as wee haue set downe For I doe not thinke that verier Reprobates haue liued since the ascention of the Lord then haue beene some contained in this clause where it is said Kings and all that are in authoritie whome the Church from time to time hath praied for And yet as most wicked rebels and apostataes haue fallen away or haue quite renounced or neuer receiued or more cruelly persecuted or more feare●ully beene blinded from the waies of the truth and the light of the Lord which liueth and lasteth for euer But because the matter hereof is comprehended in this That praier is to be made for All mankind vniuersally and that such like arguments are comprehended therein Therefore I surcease vpon such occasions and goe forward to my prefixed article and point which is to shew the Reasons why praier should bee made for all men in generall beginning with the Apostle Saint Paule in the third verse aboue who giueth this reason For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour who will that All men shall be saued and come to the acknowledging of the truth This reason conteineth two thinges The one that this kind of praier for mankind and for all men is pleasing to God the other thing is a consequent thereof shewing that it is his will that all men should be saued and come to the knowledge of the truth And therefore such a praier is pleasing vnto God and agreeable vnto his will The first part For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour A good God is not pleased but with good things he is pleased with this praier this praier therfore is a good worke a good thing Early in the morning will I direct my praier vnto thee and will looke vp for thou art the God that hast no pleasure in wickednes neither shall any euill dwell with thee truely hee is kind and louing vnto Israell euen vnto such as are of a cleane heart Bee thankfull vnto him therefore and speake good of his name for the Lord is gracious his mercie is euerlasting and his truth indureth from generation to generation It is also acceptable that is wel pleasing yea it pleaseth him better then a bullocke that hath hornes and hoofes Thinkest thou that I wil eat buls flesh and drink the blood of goates Offer vnto God thankesgiuing Who so offereth me thanks and praise he honoreth me Thou delightest not in burnt offerings the sacrifice to God is a troubled spirit The Lord said vnto Salomon ask what thou wilt that I may giue it thee Salomon said giue thy seruant an vnderstanding heart c. And this pleased the Lord well That he had desired this thing For it was to discerne righteously between brother and brother for the setting vp of iustice and iudgement and for the preseruation of his people So intreat God for his people yea and for all mankind count it not a charitie in praier more then God requireth say not it is a superfluous and foolish charitie to doe it For it is the Lords commandment and such kind of praier is good pleasing and acceptable in his sight and he shall heare it and it shall returne into my owne bosome And this much for the first clause or part The consequent of the reason is a describing of the will of God to be applied vnto thy praier wherby thou shalt know that thou seruest him For hee that calleth vpon him according to his will serueth him And the words be these Who will that All men shall be saued and come to the acknowledging of his truth Some take these words and make them absolute of themselues and apply vnto them sundrie significations according as they may bee taken in diuinitie or according as in some sence and in some respect this way or that way they may be interpreted but that is not much pertinent to this matter For the words are respectiue and are the cheife clause and weight of the reason giuen by the holy ghost establishing that praier For the exhortation concerning this rule of praier consisteth of three parts A proposition the end and effect and a reason The proposition Let praier be made for all men The end and effect That we may lead a quiet life in all godlines c. The reason Thou wilt say Why so and wherfore the holy ghost informeth thee For that is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour And he confirmeth that by his will who will haue all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the truth as if he should say Therefore is it good and acceptable in his sight because he would haue no man cast away but be saued because he would haue no man ignorant of him but all to come to the knowledge of his truth he will not the death of a sinner but rather that he should conuert and liue We need not be afraid to vnderstand the Apostles words I doubt not but the Apostle knew what he wrote for he had a good teacher Let vs therefore take them according to the mind of the teacher And since his mercie stretcheth vnto All men let vs hope and pray that we may be of that number that may receiue and enioy such his mercies laid vp in store for them that loue him But least I may seeme to speake some vnnecessarie thing let me shew by other places of scripture my further meaning and whether the reason of any doctrine or scripture be so necessarie or no or whether I haue spoken cleane from the purpose First then we read in S. Mathew While thoughts did arise in the heart of Ioseph it was said vnto him of the Angell Feare not to take to thee Mary thy wife the reason wherewithal he is confirmed is for that which is conceiued in her is of the holie ghost Againe thou shalt call his name Iesus The reason For he shal saue his people from their sins againe He that abideth in me and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruit The reason For without me can ye doe nothing Againe the true worshippers shal worship the father in spirit and truth The reason For the father requireth euen

ben hitherto holden captiue in darknes and ignorance for lacke of the knowledge of thy gospell may through the preaching thereof and the cleare light of thy holy spirit bee brought into the right way of saluation These words the booke of reformed churches of Midleburgh aboue specified somewhat changeth saying Moreouer we make our praiers vnto thee O Lord God most mercifull father for All men that as thou wouldst haue all sorts of men saued and come to the knowledge of the truth so it may please thee that such as haue ben hetherto holden captiue in darkenes and ignorance for lacke of the knowledge of thy gospell may through the preaching thereof c. As aboue so haue we here the example of other reformed churches also all which we see keepe the Apostles rule pray for All men for al such as be yet ignorant for all men in generall for such as are captiue in darkenes and ignorance And sometime end the same their praiers with the Lords praier also So doe we behold praier for all men and euen the very Apostles rule in the church of God continued from time to time and thus much for the practise of the church The fift part The Obiections against it answered NOw we come to the fift and last place which is concerning the obiectiōs against this ancient publike charitable and religious praier of the church for vniuersall mankind which whosoeuer backbiteh or speaketh against he backbiteth and speaketh against the word of God and against the ancient order of praier of Gods church as sufficiently hath ben declared The first Obiection WE ought not to pray for all because All shall not bee saued The Answere We haue no such rule in scripture that saith wee ought not to pray for all but we haue a rule of S. Pauls that saith Pray for al men But a rule that saith Pray not for all men I find none such Him therefore that flatly inferreth a contradictiō against the scriptures of God the church of God ought to suspect For Christ wee know and Paule wee know but who is this That hee should set downe a rule against the Lord his God We may say vnto him as Moises said sometime to the presumptuous Ye take too much vpon you ye sons of Leui. Secondly the proposition here inferred hath his foundation in calling and in the outward seruice due vnto God in praier in his congregation vpon earth the conclusion or reason is drawen from the purpose of God in election and applied ioined therunto which ought not to be For from outward calling to secret election we may not reason Thirdly the Apostle preuenting all such cauelling teacheth vs to reason far better saieng Pray for all men For God will haue all men to bee saued The second Obiection IN mankind there are reprobates and we ought not to pray for reprobates The Answere The Lord in his C●mmission saith not Goe preach to elect and ●●probate bu● P●each the Gospell to ●uery creature he doth not ●●stinguish th●m to our hands but looketh for increase Againe We pray for the saluation of All whom w● know to be created to the image of God and vnto whom t●ere is the same nature with vs on the other side we leane the d●struction of those to Gods iudgem●nt whom h●e himselfe knoweth to be reprobat●s Lastly we say as maister Caluin saith Hunc illum s●ngulos optare debemus saluos esse atque ita complecti totum humanum genus quià nen dum distinguere licet electos à reprobis Wee ought to wish this man and the other man and so euery man to be saued and so comprehend All mankind For as yet we may not distinguish or seperate the elect from the reprobate The third Obiection OVr sauiour Christ saith I pray not for the world c. He would not pray for the wicked ones in the world Wee should do so to c. The Answere This praier of the Lord was particular vnto himselfe as the great shepheard of our soules and therefore not to be drawne into example of vs whereof is inough spoken before Againe as one noteth vpon the words Chr●stus vt deus homo nouit distinctè plenè qui quot essent saluandi qui etiam quot essent damnādi c. Christ as God and man both distinctly and fully knoweth who and how many should be saued who also and how manie should be damned Wee prostrate before his maiestie dare not speake or presume any such thing But let vs see how Christ hath praied and how he teacheth ●o pray for in the same Chapter he saieth I pray not for these alone but for them also which shall beleeue in me through their worde He praied not only for them which were pr●sent as in the ninth verse but also for them which were to come and should beleeue in him Also according to the prophesie long before of him he prayed for the transgressours So as we read in the Gospell hee fulfilled it saying Father forgiue them for they know not what they doe Vpon which words a learned Father saith Oblitus suorum malorum prò suis crucifixoribus id est prò nobis orat qui nostris peccatis illum crucifiximus Ignosce illis qui à nesciunt quid faciunt Hee forgetting his owne iniuries prayed for his Tormentors or crucifiers That is for vs who with our sinnes haue crucified him saying Father forgiue them for they know not what they doe And in this we are to follow the Lord in the other to know the Lord and in both to honour him The fourth Obiection IF it be lawfull to pray for the saluation of Reprobates Then is it lawfull to pray for Iudas and Saul and Esau of whom the Scriptures doe testifie That they bee reiected of the Lord. Iudas is called the lost child of perdition and a diuel Iohn 6. Esau is said to find no place to repentance Though he sought the blessing with teares Heb. 12. And of Saul the Lord himselfe in expresse words said that he had reiected him 2. Sam. 7. The Answere Let vs suppose that Esau Saul and Iudas were aliue and so first let vs speake of them Secondly of the Reprobates Of Esau first For yer the children were borne and when they had done neither good nor euill c. It was said vnto her The elder shall serue the yonger Now after this voice of the Lord concerning the children Let vs see whether the Church cast him off also as reiected of the Lord and vnworthie of his house vnworthie of their praier vnworthie of their companie First it is said And the boies grew Then it is said And Isaac loued Esau Then it is said Make me sauory meat that my soule may blesse thee or I die Surely master Caluin giueth this iudgement Consortes externa vocationis peraequè fuisse Esau Iacob vndè patet arcano dei consilio