Absurditie of the Demonstrator or all finite or infinite number must be chusers and opposers now They who can do no more but render an account or reason of their owne faith if they can do that must heare the audite and reckoning of others faith and trie their skill in high points of diuinitie and so the shepeheard not lead the sheepe but the sheepe the shepeheard for he must teach them the next day that examined him the day afore The 6. Demonstration They whose testimonie the people may best credite Demonstration must examine But the Elderships iudgement the people may best credite being a company of able and sufficient men Ergo All goeth to popular democracie Remonstrance To the Minor This is idem peridem The Eldership is nothing else but a few vnlearned people for the most part can no more iudge of gifts other then volubilitie of speach then a blind man of colours The 7. Demonstration They who can best perswade the people of his sufficiencie must examine Demonstration But the Eldership can best perswade Ergo To the Maior The Maior is false Remonstrance For a craftie Orator may seduce the people and best perswade in a bad matter To the Minor The bishop of the dioecesse and others vnder them can best iudge of the qualitie of learning themselues being learned As for the sillie Eldership they are vncunning to perswade and more vncunning to examine Lord what a confusion barbaritie and indignitie were this to haue vnlearned men examine ministers Can they tell who is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that neither know tongues arte liberall or methode nor can tell a Paralogisme when they heare it The sixt Chapter Assertion 1 ALl must be preachers receiued into the ministerie 2 The Church may not be gouerned by Commissaries Officials Chancellors The 1. Demonstration He that may be receiued into the ministerie Demonstration must be able to teach the people all that Christ commanded Mat. 28.20 Onely he that is able to teach the trueth and conuince the aduersarie can teach the people all that Christ commaunded Ergo none must be receiued into the ministerie but such as be able to teach the trueth and conuince gainesaiers To the Maior That whosoeuer may be receiued into the ministerie Remonstrance must be able to teach all that Christ hath commaunded for so is it here propounded vniuersallie is not true for then no man since the Apostles might or can now bee receiued to the ministerie Things that Christ commaunded to the Apostles were of two sortes either things for knowledge or for conuersation what was to be embraced and what eschewed For matter of knowledge it was so eminent in the Apostles being ledde by Gods spirite vnto all trueth as that they could not erre in their doctrine deliuered to the Churches and that the 72. Euangelists or any since were not indued with like measure of it Augustine Hierome with all the olde fathers and learned bishops that haue written haue both erred and therefore were not able to teach all knowledge that Christ had commanded his Apostles to know and in sundrie points of Scripture confesse their ignorance Beza and Caluine whose examples I vse because you doe most account of them doe differ in sundrie interpretations By this rule then the one of them light on whether it will was not able to teach all that Christ commaunded and commended to his Apostles and consequently no minister because none omniscient minister They doubt of some places and some Beza himselfe professeth he vnderstandeth not as that in the Corinthians Propter angelos and I know other places which I perswade my selfe verilie he vnderstood not at least not aright and shall not he be allowed with you an able minister Then woe be to your selues of the faction that are of this opinion for you will I hope giue place to Beza for sufficiencie in learning But especially woe to them that neuerthelesse thinke you ministers and receiue as they thinke sacraments at your hands yet in trueth nothing if wee might beleeue your owne doctrines The errour hereof riseth because the Demonstrator folowing the steps of the deuill when hee tempted Christ alleageth this Scripture defectiuelie Math. 4. For it is not teaching them all that I haue commaunded you but teaching them to obserue all that I haue commaunded you What that all nations should obserue all that Christ commaunded the Apostles either to know or to put in practise no but teach them to obserue what Christ commaunded the Apostles to haue obserued for the Apostles were to vse many things as Apostles which are not requisite of euery Christian to bee obserued and kept And as the Apostles knew many hid mysteries and depthes of knowledge which is not necessarie for euery minister to the being of his ministerie in that hie measure to know and as it is not necessarie to the being of euery Christian to haue as manie and as excellent degrees of knowledge as any bishop or minister of the worde else were no difference betweene teacher and scholer so I doubt not but that the Apostles were not indued with knowledge and other gifts all alike and therefore that the like inequalitie may bee of ministers amongst themselues and amongst common Christians in comparison one of another without derogating hereby from them the essence and being either of an Apostle minister or good christian The diuersitie of giftes are in all sortes of men of great multiplicitie and varietie and euery one hath not all but as pleaseth God to dispense There is in Scriptures milke and strong meate rudiments and perfection for a lambe to wade and an Elephant to swimme and yet as S. Augustine saith In these things which are plainly set foorth in Scripture are all things that containe faith or conuersation and maners of men Act. 20. And though S. Paul kept backe nothing of the whole will of God ver 27. from the ministers of Ephesus yet doeth hee expound himselfe afore vers 20. 2. Cor. 12. v. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I kept backe nothing that was profitable but haue shewed you c. For all was not profitable for them as namely he in reuelation heard words not to be spoken which was not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lawfull for man to vtter Euery minister cannot bee of perfectest knowledge and giftes as in the pricke of perfection for that which is superlatiue Arist in Topic. agreeth onely to one Are all Apostles are all prophets are all doctors 1. Cor. 12. v. 29 30. do all speake with tongues do all interprete c. Of necessitie therefore the ministers teaching of the people whether in matter of beliefe and knowledge or what to follow and eschew must be according to the proportion of his owne knowledge and gifts wherewith he is endued If notwithstanding all this ioined with the experience of ministers in all times and that which they might find
handes or the censures of the Church inflicted in or since the Apostles time by or vnder the authoritie of those that themselues are no ministers but in all other respectes are meere lay men and but annuall or biennall officers in the Church If they cannot shewe it let them for euer hereafter holde their peace and confesse it to bee in trueth a deuise of mans braine which they woulde seeme so much to detest in Church gouernment The 1. Demonstration That which our Sauiour Christ refused ruling and gouerning the Church Demonstration and teaching the Church that is not lawfull for an ecclesiasticall person to doe but Christ refused to diuide the inheritance Luk. 12.14 Ergo Ecclesiasticall persons may not iudge in ciuill matters The syllogisme is to be concluded newe againe Remonstrance here are foure termini foure termes in three quarters of a yeere One conclusion is Ergo ecclesiasticall persons may not iudge in ciuill causes another should be Ergo ecclesiasticall persons may not diuide lande or inheritance Amphor a caepit institui currente rota sic vrceus exit To the Maior The Maior is to be denied all that our Sauiour refused euery of vs may not refuse he because he came to be a mediatour betweene God and man would not become a common diuider and iudge of euery secular cause of title of land who made me c. neither my heauenly father sent me to that end neither haue I commission from thy brother to sende thee into the moietie of the possession Besides if he had intermedled in the matters of the common weale it would haue strengthened the conceipte that he sought an earthly kingdome and to dispossesse the Romanes To reason from Christes refusal is the refuse of all good reason à non facto ad ius Christ woulde not or did not answere Pilate in iudgement must we therefore conclude Ergo at the tribunall of a Iudge it is at our discretion to answere or not to speake Christ did not condemne the woman taken in the acte of adulterie shall not therefore officers Ecclesiasticall condemne any such sinner To the Minor Christ refused to diuide the inheritance it was because hee woulde not vse the authoritie that hee had as Lorde of Heauen and earth when he came as a seruant not because either a Christian magistrate or minister shoulde after his example lay aside all authoritie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who hath appointed me emplieth rather that if he had bene appointed by both the parties he might haue done it and so may any minister arbitrate and compounde a controuersie ciuill that is committed vnto him If any Christians may be iudges of ciuill matters 1. Cor. 6. why may not some ministers in some ciuill matters If then hee may whome the Church appointeth nay whome two priuate men consent vpon though he be a person ecclesiasticall may not the Christian Soueraigne Prince much more commit a ciuill cause vnto them and they lawfully deale in it Or if it will be saide they may not so deale in causes ciuill delegated vnto them is then the sinne hereof in him who delegateth or who is delegated or in both But I neede not wade further into this matter I haue spoken something to it afore More authoritie ciuill then is delegated vnto them no Byshop hath may haue or doeth claime in this Realme and therefore except they will impugne this point their labour is superfluous By the way I will propounde this vnto them If all ciuill rule and authoritie bee denied to persons Ecclesiasticall as in it selfe impious howe may they rule their wiues children and housholde which is oeconomicall power and therefore ciuill as ciuill is opposite to ecclesiasticall Likewise howe may they cast their accompts receiue their rentes c. Nay when they are rubbed with their laye Elders and can no where finde them then they say they are not lay but Ecclesiasticall persons because they haue imposition of handes If they bee therefore so to bee accompted Countrey poyson then howe may they lawfully euen in the yeere of their Eldership be also ciuill magistrates as Sheriffes Iustices of peace maisters of their companies counsellours Syndicks and what not though most ciuill as dayly experience teacheth where that discipline is in vre Belike their assertions and rules are made onely against byshoppes not against themselues The 2. Demonstration That which was forbidden to the Apostles Demonstration is vnlawful for ecclesiastical officers but such dominiō was forbiddē Luk. 22.28 which is to rule ciuilly Ergo. That which was forbidden c. is vnlawfull Remonstrance But ambition tyranny contention for absolute seigneurial and ciuil authoritie was forbidden not a modest either ciuill or ecclesiastical superiority ergo to be ambitious contentious c. is vnlawfull In that here he applieth that of Luke to ciuill rule hee cleareth our Bishoppes from the daunger of it in exercising anie authoritie Ecclesiasticall This Argument is answered before The 3. Demonstration If necessarie dueties are to bee left rather then our duetie in the Church Demonstration then may not a Church-officer deale in ciuill iurisdiction but the former is true for a man may not burie his father Luc. 6.59 Ergo I denie the sequele of the Antecedent Remonstrance albeit some corporall or bodily offices which duetie biddeth to be done may vpon Christes commaundement be left vndone yet this is no barre to ministers and preachers of the Gospel to deale in any necessarie ciuill cause And how is it proued that no ciuill iurisdiction may stand with doing of his Church duetie There is none of themselues but they can be content to be executors to a wealthy widow or such like being no more afraid of it then they are to burie them To the Assumption Your quotation should be the 9. of Luke the meaning of which place is All Christians must lay aside all impedimentes and hinderaunces that may drawe them from comming to Christ but some ciuill authoritie amongst Christians is rather a furtherance What consequence cal ye this A man may not bury his own father rather then not follow Christ or if Christ otherwise encharge him Ergo a minister that liueth in a Christian common wealth may not lawfully haue a branch of commission from the prince for ciuil iurisdiction The 4. Demonstration If he that hath an office must attend on his office Demonstration then may hee not intermeddle with another office But the first is true Rom. 12.7 Ergo not with ciuill iurisdiction He may not intermeddle without lawfull calling or vocation Remonstrance yet the connexion hath no sequele Doe you not see some that haue two offices looke neere inough to both This will roaue at temporall men as well as at ecclesiasticall S. Paul disputeth of diligence in our function not of diuersitie of functions which diuerse functions may concurre in one See the answere to the first thus I retort against your selues He that
A REMONSTRANCE OR PLAINE DETECTION OF SOME OF THE FAVLTS AND HIDEOVS SORES OF SVCH SILLIE SYLLOGISMES AND IMPERTINENT ALLEGATIONS AS OVT OF sundrie factious Pamphlets and Rhapsodies are cobled vp together in a Booke Entituled A DEMONSTRATION OF DISCIPLINE Wherein also The true state of the Controuersie of most of the points in variance is by the way declared 2. Timoth. 3. ver 5 6 7. They haue a shew of godlinesse but haue denied the power thereof turne away therefore from such for of this sort are they which creepe into houses and lead captiue simple women laden with sinnes and led with diuers lustes which are euer learning and are neuer able to come to the knowledge of the trueth Augustinus in Psal 34. Quare in Praecisione vultis magnificare nomen Domini quare duos populos ex vno vultis facere Cyprianus lib. 4. epist 9. ad Florentium Pupianum Pupianus solus integer inuiolatus sanctus pudicus qui nobis miscere se noluit in Paradiso in regno coelorum solus habitabit Imprinted at London by GEORGE BISHOP and RAFE NEWBERIE An. Domini 1590. TO THE FACTIOVS AND TVRBVLENT T. C.VV.T I.P. AND TO THE REST OF THAT ANarchicall disordered Alphabet which trouble the quiet and peace of the Church of England MAnifold and foole-hardie haue your oppositions and practises bene against the setlement of that discipline of the Church of England which beyond all iust contradiction we rightly mainteine as lineally deduced from the Apostles and primitiue times downeward vnto vs and to be reduced from our times vpward vnto them As namely by your opposite Admonitions to the Parliament by Pamphlet-writing of Replies by Counterpoyson by Abstract by Dialoguizing by Martinizing or printing of infamous libels by penning or Penrying of malepart and treasonable letters by coursing and discoursing ouer the holy discipline of the Church And nowe at last by shewe and demonstration or by making colourable shewe and false demonstration to conclude your discipline in Syllogisme That is to seclude your selues from all pretence of the thing you would haue for euer after before you are awares and that in Moode and Figure The subtiller sorte of Heretikes haue done no more then you haue done to vexe the Church Tertullian de Praescript aduers Hâ—â—â— Apelles the disciple of Marcion had certaine priuate but extraordinarie Lectures or Readings or prophesies of his owne which they called Phaneroseis declarations or demonstrations of a certaine maide named Philumena whome he followed as a Prophetesse Habet praetereà suos libros quos inscripsit Syllogismorum Besides this he hath his bookes to which he giueth this title of Syllogismes wherein he vndertakes to proue That whatsoeuer Moses hath writteÌ„ is not true but false Semblably this scholler of T. C. besides all their prophesyings conferences priuate sermonings parlour exercising libellings hath brought vnto light this booke of demonstratiue Syllogismes an incredible and singular good method and most seruiceable to their owne times which method if either your Ecclesiasticall discipliners A. B. C. D. or T.C. or any other of your Alphabet had heretofore embraced and bound them selues fast vnto we should not haue needed to pursue after your extrauagant and stragling conceipts lying so scattered in your worthie commentaries whereby you doe nothing else then blurre paper as alwaies saying one the same thing nor your selues should be so farre off from ioyning a right issue to determine trie the cause For by this demonstratiue dealing all waste wordes had bene pared away as excrementious and superfluous to the body and state of the question and your vndutifull demeanors against the proceedings superioritie of Church-gouernors altogether spared Which stratageme as in the sight of God and his Angels detestable and damnable it hath rather with silence then with censure bene answered and your wits exceedingly misliked therefore so this sophisme or manner of paralogisme if it were somewhat more mannerly as dealing with materiall pointes and letting alone personall might deserue lesse reprehension or mislike whereunto I haue framed this briefe answere with Remonstrance shewing the absurditie of your reasons fallacie of your syllogismes indemonstrable demonstrations compiled by other in their bookes combined vp in this booke of yours worthied by you of this title to be named a Demonstration and to be surnamed a Demonstration of the holy discipline of the Church not the discipline of the holy Church because the Church is not so holy but must be hallowed by the discipline Whiles I am thus conuersant in answering I list not make of ten apparent digression from the propositions which I answere by instance to the contrarie distinction or deniall and by returning or retorting all vpon your selues as I might neither make a roadeouer to inuade other mens persons with selaunder as the Demonstrator doth particularly by producing at his pleasure euery one into the Theatre of enuious diffamation but I rather leaue a blanke or cyphre in Algorisme or an Abecedarie name And doe farther pray that all protestations of your zeale and godlines laied aside this Academicall lawe of disputing schoolelike being once enacted by your selues may not be repealed That whether your Demonstrator hath more to say he may still syllogize or if he haue ought to gaine-say it may please him to distinguish flatly denie or giue an instance to an affirmatiue point But if he haue no more to say wherewith to fortifie his part nor is able in this forme to dispose of his sayings Let the wiser sort of your sectaries suspend their iudgement from either crediting or admiring those pitifull demonstrations All that I haue said is no more in substance then that which hath bene aforesaid The solutions of your arguments are included in the answeres to the Admonition in the defense of that answere in the answere to the Abstract in the defense of the discipline of the Church of England and such other learned workes excepting some forced allegations annexed to the Demonstration and the coyned syllogismes All which by this method of Remonstrance is reanswered for it is but one answere Omne verum vero consentaneum Euery truth is but agreeeble to a trueth Veritas est simplex mendacium est multiplex there is but one trueth And although you multiply and vrge your falshood or diuide or subdiuide or part into infinite fractions yet it is but one and the same obiection one Proteus putting on diuerse mishapes the argument sometime clowded vnder an equinoction or coloured with ambiguitie of termes or vailed with inconsequencie or disorderly disposition of moode and figure or transposition of partes of the figure or borrowing Ignorationem elenchi Ignorance or vncunning whether the proposition holde Ad idem secundum idem c. respectiuely to this and not to that or by begging Petitionem principij to conclude one and the same by the selfe same Or to be beholding to the fallacte à non causa by arguing from insufficient cause vntrue effect and
reueiled as you vnderstand reueiled in the word It is vtterly vntrue whether you vnderstand matter of externall orders and circumstance or for the proportionating of externall decencie of euery part and parcell it is a matter of infinitie to find all determined particularly by the worde But to beate their owne weapon about their owne pate I make this Dilemma Euery office and action in our Church gouernment Retortion is either from heauen or from earth if from earth then all of that minde were earthly minded men from the primitiue Church downeward vnto vs and from vs vpward vnto them whereby fall into your condemnation all they whom you deeme to haue abused the same or not vsed the same sith it is cleare by Ecclesiasticall historie they for the most part vsed the same Church discipline which wee doe If from heauen how dare you withstand the same It is hard to kicke agaynst the pricke your contradiction cannot long stand agaynst it least you perish in the same The 12. Demonstration If God continued in regard of the substance Demonstration the Church administration as well as the things to be administred then is the forme of discipline described in the worde but the former is true for priests Pastours for teaching Leuites or Doctors of the lawe Teachers for rulers of the Synagogue Elders for Leuiticall lookers to the treasurie Deacons for Sanedrim the Eldership Ergo This Demonstration is Demonstratio à causa remota Remonstrance a demonstrate seldome vsed the resolution or Analysis is this If God from all succeeding ages continued as well the forme as the matter in respect of the substance then c. To the Antecedent This phrase of speach in respect of the substance emplyeth a contradiction to the sequele of the Antecedent for it commeth to this summe If God hath continued the whole discipline in respect of the essentiall partes of discipline then is the frame of accidentall pointes of discipline and externall pollicie of the Church continued therewith which Antecedent with the consequence is starke naught As if a man did reason thus hee might reason also as well Absurditie If God hath continued in regard of the substance the propagation of Adams posteritie by enduing man with an humaine bodie and infusing into man a reasonable soule then hath he endued all men alike with semblable endowment of bodie and soule As if God did garnish euerie man alike with reason and religion in the intellectuall soule or complexionate alike the naturall bodie which is vnited to the soule Nothing so like as man vnto God for he made man to the likenesse of himselfe nothing so dislike as man vnto man man in honor vnderstood not but became like to the brute beast Psal 49. and yet in regard of the substance God continueth the vnchangeable tenor of the race of man To the Assumption The assumption beggerlie beggeth that which is in question drawing a proportion of that which is not Non entis nullae qualitates Where can you euer prooue the correspondence or one word of Scripture for the maintenance of this videlicet That Pastor answereth vnto priest sith with you pastorall charge is exhortation Or Doctor of the lawe or teaching Leuite for one of your Doctors which is a bare teacher vsing explication and refusing application or a simple catechiste whereas Saint Paul doctor gentium was a full minister Or for Leuiticall lookers to the treasurie Deacons because they looke to finger treasure you will make it a corporall office but wee withall some ministerie about the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as amongst the Apostles after the expiration of that seruice at Ierusalem the primitiue Deacons did Or for Iewish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rulers of the Synagogue Elders to come in place sith that was a canker of corruption that crept in amongest them Or for Sanedrim Eldership sith no man can exactly number the time when it first came in Sith it was a deprauation of a better thing but dealing with all ciuill causes sith that was no holy nor sacred pres byterie which we doe holde all our Synodes and solemne Conuocations to be The Idaea of this discipline is a hote Meteor inuisible not hanging in any region of the aire The difference of this Sanedrim from the olde is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the imagination vpon this is Diametri ad latus incommensurable proportion the Identitie is a contrarietie in sight the vse of this discipline is a nullitie in deede But thus we retort the argument vpon them If God continued in regarde of the substance Retortion the church administration vnder the Gospell which was vnder the lawe then are there degrees of superioritie and authoritie in persons ecclesiasticall one ouer another for the priestes were aboue the Leuites and the high priests aboue all the priests of that nation in so much as he that willfullie disobeied his iudgement was to die the death But our Demonstrationer and his customer of whom he borowes it say vpon their credites the former is true ergo Superioritie in the state ecclesiasticall is continued by God vnder the Gospell and therefore not to be discontinued as Antichristian The 13. Demonstration Euerie wise king that is carefull for his subiects Demonstration setteth downe lawes but Christ is a wise king ergo a certaine forme of gouernment The second demonstration was of an householder Remonstrance this is the 13. of a king this is to parabolize not to demonstrate You cannot hence draw a consequence but inconsequentlie conclude because Christ is a king Ergo hee is bound to set downe expresse lawes for euery indiuiduall point of gouernement that may happen for no wise king doeth so especiallie where the whole pollicie which is by him continued is set downe afore as you beare vs in hand in your 12. Demonstration that the whole substance of the pollicie vnder the law is continued vnder the Gospell True it is for the inward and spirituall worship all is described in the worde and prescribed vnto vs. As for euery externall matter of dependaunce it ought rightly to be deduced from the word and reduced to the touchstone of the worde againe regard being had to the seuerall circumstances of time persons c. Me thinkes if you would haue framed an argument the consequence should bee thus Euerie wise king is carefull c. Ergo he barreth all wranglers to make false constructions and collections of his lawes But Christ is an euerlasting king and hath an euerlasting trueth concluded in the tables of his lawes Ergo none of his subiectes may call that lawe which is not lawe nor of the volume and bodie of his lawe or call that sole and an eternall trueth which is a sole and eternall lie as your formall gouernement partie-coloured coate of Laitie and Clergie linsey wolsey discipline or vncertaine forme of gouernment The 14. Demonstration That which the Ministers must teach the people to
constāt practise of the Apostles church ergo In those elections appeareth nothing that must be folowed And againe of the contrary thus That which differeth from the practise of the apostles church must not be folowed The platformers elections as in sundry points is shewed here differeth from the practise of the Apostles Church Ergo the platformers elections must not be folowed Now for the 14. Act. 25. v. Paul Barnabas ordained ministers with praier fasting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ergo they ordained them without election of the people because no mentiō is made of the election or approbation of the people antecedent or subsequent The place serueth to prooue the right of election and ordination whatsoeuer was in Paul and Barnabas and not any wise in the people as it is an inuincible argument to bee gathered out of the wordes if the Demonstrator did vnderstand or T.C. for all his bragging a Greeke text aright When they had ordained vnto them ministers or pastorall elders for one the same in one respect cannot be ordainer those for whom they were ordained the consequence therfore is they did not ordaine with them or with the promiscuous multitude but for thē for here be three sundrie persons mentioned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the ordainers Paul and Barnabas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 priests or ministers ordained and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the Churches of Antioch Iconium Lystra and Derbe That it must so be vnderstood appeareth thus Those which preached and taught v. 20. comforted the mindes and exhorted v. 21. praied with fastings v. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it was they which as I translate it by imposition of hands ordained ministers vnto those churches for all those participles haue none other verbe to relate vnto But Paul and Barnabas were the persons onely that preached c. Ergo they only were the persons that so ordained ministers But against this cleare light they seeke to shadow themselues by the doubtful and heathenish interpretation of this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifying by etimologie to stretch out the hand they say is an allusion to the maner and custome of the multitude in some popular common wealths of Greece to signifie their assents by lifting vp their hands to matters proposed To grant thē that such custome was somewhere amongst the Grecians though rarely obserued is it likely that this confused course was thence borowed and brought into the Church by the Apostles Nay rather as vpon a custome not vnlike vsed amongst the Romanes all that doe assent by what gesture soeuer euen at this day may not vnaptly be said in Latine Pedibus ire in sententiam so was this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 drawen from that vsage to any ordaining or appointing of men to functions in what maner soeuer by one or moe as may appeare by infinite places in the purest Greeke writers prophane and diuine One example in S. Luke himselfe Acts 10. v. 41. may suffice where the same word is vsed viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 witnesses afore ordeined for the ordination and choise that God himselfe made of his apostles And the like is said Act. 22. v. 14. of Paul that God did ordaine him to know his will 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a word deriued of the hand They might hereof then as wel gather so might as probably translate those places as they doe this place that the Apostles Paul were chosen not only by God but by the suffrages of the people also that testified by lifting vp of their hands a thing absurd to be deemed and is not this a pretie opinion sufficiently wel grounded to trouble the church with that is built vpon nothing sauing the doubtfull interpretation of one single word This is no maruel for in trueth vpō the diuers interpretations of 8. or 10. such wordes in the testament is the whole frame almost of the new platforme builded as were easie to bee shewed in his due place Because they wil not beleeue me perhaps herein let thē for the true vnderstanding hereof peruse al the old Latin translations to be found the fathers Greek Latin that euer either writ of this place or haue occasion to vse the word for ordination of ministers they shal find that it importeth no creatiō or election by suffrages of the people but ordination with laying on of hands for if it should not here so signifie we should be driuen to confesse that Paul Barnabas laid not their hands of the ministers whom they ordained Chrysost in Act. 6. homil 13. S. Chrysostome an ancient Greeke father and Archb. of Constantinople thus writeth Nō dicit quomodo c. he telleth not how saith he but simplie saith that they were ordained by prayers for this is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is ordination The hand is laid vpon the man but it is God who worketh all and it is his hand that doth touch the head of the ordained if he be ordained as he ought And S. Hierome most plainly Hierom. in 58. Isaiae Three other interpreters saith he did translate the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a finger stretched forth but the most of vs do interprete it the ordination of clergie men which is performed not alone by the praier of the voice but by the laying on of hands But if the Demonstrator meant not deceitfully why did he not for proofe of the constant practise of the Apostles church herein produce all ordinations of ecclesiastical persons to any function in the whole testament Forsooth he saw the further he waded the lesse likelihood of his purpose For in Act. 13. the 4. prophets doctors of Antioch beside Paul did with praier fasting and laying on of hands ordaine separate Paul Barnabas to that holy function which the spirit there called thē vnto Here are no traces of peoples propounding electing or of any eldership to concur with these ecclesiastical ordainers yet was it then a most famous Church In 1. Tim. 3.4 c. he is taught the qualities of bishops Deacons and precepts are giuen to him that he might know how to conuerse behaue himself in the church of God 1. Tim. 3. 1. Tit. Titus was left by Paul in the Isle of Candie to supply that which wanted to ordain bishops and ministers in the congregations as S. Paul had afore prescribed to him In both which whole epistles not the least tidings are to be learned of any popular or Oligarchical intermedling in elections of people or of any such elders The conclusion therefore is that there is neither constant nor inconstant rule and practise of perpetuall election by the people from any example of the Acts or other part of the new testament The 2. Demonstration If the people had interest in the liking of their teaching Leuites Demonstration Then much more the people now But the first ergo the second Num. 8. v. 9. I like
in themselues if they had the spirite of humilitie they will vrge that to be in deed a minister a man must be perfectly endued with all the enhablements by Saint Paul described and condemne me as the Countrey-poisoner hath done others for saying that Saint Paul setteth downe an Idaea that is a perfect sampler of an absolute minister for all to aime at which hee vnskilfully and calumniouslie detorteth as if it were meant to be such a matter as cannot possiblie by any man bee attained then let Saint Hierome a more learned minister then one hundred of the best of these disputing this matter professedly sit iudge betweene vs for a finall composing of this controuersie touching degrees of learning and other requisites for the ministerie As Orators and Philosophers saieth he when they describe what kind of Orator or Philosopher they would wish to haue Hier. ad Oceanum epist 83. doe none iniurie to Demosthenes or Plato who happily are not so perfect but describe the things without persons so in the description of a Bishop and in the exposition of those things that bee written a glasse Sacerdotij of Priesthood or of the ministerie is set before vs where you see the example of Idaea or samplar confirmed Touching the other point Hier. ibidem he saieth in the same Epistle thus In that Saint Paul requireth a Bishop to be without fault he comprehendeth in one word all vertues and requireth almost a thing contrarie to nature which is more then any of vs doe say of it That this may not seeme lightly to haue in that place slipped him or without deliberate aduise he disputeth it at large else-where for speaking of Ecclesiasticall men Hier. li. 1 adu Pelag. ca. 8. he saieth Many doe treate well vpon the Gospels but in expounding the Apostle are not like themselues other that very well vnderstand the new Testament yet in the Psalmes and olde Testament are dumbe this I say because euery one cannot doe all Ibidem And againe God hath giuen diuers precepts and manifold vertues all which euery of vs cannot haue at once So it commeth to passe that which is excellent or perfect in some is in others but in part and yet he that hath not all is not blameable neither condemned for that he hath not but iustified or approoued for that he hath The example hereof he assigneth in bishops and ministers out of S. Paul and after thus Ibidem Truly God would haue all bishops and ministers such as the vessell of election teacheth First in that he saieth a bishop must be irreprehensible either none is such or hee is a very rare man for who is there who hath not as it were some blemish or wart in a body otherwise faire as Peter himselfe had then to be husband of one wife sober chast comely harborous admit you may find them but that which foloweth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he that can teach not docible as the Latin reading full simply translateth it yee shall hardly find with the other vertues I am of opinion you shall hardly find such as shall be accused of none that shall be of good account euen with those that are without so as they that cannot away with his doctrine shall like his conuersation but especially ye shall hardly finde him that is mightie to resist the aduersaries and to suppresse and conuince erronions opinions so that either there is none or he is very rare that hath all which a bishop ought to haue and yet though one or two things in the Catalogue of bishops vertues bee wanting in any he shall not thereupon want the name of a iust or fit bishop neither shall he be condemned for that hee hath not but shall bee crowned for that he hath for to haue all and to want nothing is his peculiar vertue who sinned not and in whose mouth was no guile which if they bee so hard all at once to bee found in Bishops who in comparison are but fewe how shall they be found in euery minister in so great a Church and nation as is the realme of England To the Minor Onely he c. A minister may teach the people in plainenesse and trueth though he be no exact preacher or pulpit man This exclusiue Onely hee will exclude many of our opinatiue men when they shall encounter with a craftie Iesuite I know the most of them are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 able to confute false doctrine howsoeuer they be quicke enough to reprehend faultes neither are able to dispute with a Iesuite or other subtile heretike and yet you shall doe them fowle disgrace not to count them pulpit men and ministers The 2. Demonstration That which is to be done conditionallie may not bee done Demonstration the condition not kept Men are to bee receiued into the ministerie conditionallie if they bee vnreprooueable Titus 1.5 6. Therefore if they bee not such as is there described and by consequence able to teach they are not to be receiued To the Minor This is a fond matter to be receiued into the ministerie conditionallie Remonstrance They must be before hand rather condicioned and qualified with giftes Our Sauiour receiued Iudas into the Apostleship whose conditions in his diuine foreknowledge he knew to be bad and him a deuil The Apostles bestowed or conferred the Deaconship on Nicolaus who afterwards prooued a Sectarie As for the place to Tit. 1.5 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if a man be without reprehension Not euery one who is no actuall preacher falleth into this condemnation Est quoddam prodire tenus sinon datur vltra saith Horace They may be able to teach profitably many points yet not all You heard S. Hieromes opinion hereof to bee a thing scarce possible in nature to be without all blame The 3. Demonstration That which cannot be done without manifest breach of Gods commaundement Demonstration may not bee done at all To receiue an vnable man to teach is so Ergo 1. Tim. 3.1 T it 19. v. To the Minor The whole Syllogisme is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Remonstrance yet true and not in question betweene vs if hee vnderstand that such who haue no gift at all to teach or in no measure can exhort or doe good are not to be receiued The 4. Demonstration They whom God refuseth to be made ministers may not be receiued Demonstration The Lord refuseth all that cannot teach Osea 4.6 v. The place of Osea is Remonstrance Because thou hast refused knowledge I will refuse thee thou shalt be no priest to mee because thou hast forgotten the lawe of God I will forget thy children The Prophet speaketh of wilfull blindnesse and disobedience knowledge is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a thing immanent and not transitiue in that place It is certaine the Lord refuseth all those who are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 absolutely vnfurnished of their gifts of learning It is not meant comparatiuely
Demonstration If no particular Congregation haue priuiledge greater giuen then other Demonstrat then must eyther no Eldershippe be at all or else in eurie Congregation But euerie Congregation hath like priuiledge because it is a perfect bodie Ergo To the Assumption No Congregation hath anie priuiledge for Eldership Remonstrance and yet is a bodie perfect of it selfe To adde anie thing to the perfection of Arte is curiositie to the perfection of nature monstruousnes as for the Charter of the priuiledge of your Eldership you haue not shewed it Let our Syllogisme be this If euery Congregation haue like priuiledge then euery one or none must haue Doctors But euery one neede not but where it may be as you say Ergo none must haue a Doctor or else your owne collection is foolish The 4. Demonstration The same warrant that is for an Eldershippe in one place is the warrant to haue it in all Demonstrat for GOD tyeth it not to Churches in cities but to the Churche But there is a warrant to haue in some Ergo in all To the Maior You say the verie trueth Remonstrance for your Consistoriall Eldership is warranted in no place as for pastorall Eldershippe it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expounde it howe you will for towneship or citie although Paul and Barnabas ordeyned them Actes 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 through Iconium Lystra c. for the commoditie of the Church To the Minor The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your fansied Eldership appeareth in no place If any man be contentious for it as for a diuine institution the Churches of God haue receiued no such custome for 1550. yeres together The Assertion That the Eldership is perpetuall Demonstration The 1. Demonstration If the causes why Christ would haue an Eldership be perpetual then is the thing it selfe perpetuall but the causes vz. to gouerne the Church by the rules of the worde Ecclesiastically are perpetuall Ergo. The Antecedent is true if all the causes be perpetuall Remonstrance but here is mention onely of the finall cause But a man may atteyne well to the ende of gouernment Ecclesiasticall and peace of conscience without the complot of this Eldership Ergo all this is but a strong imagination Why man cannot the Church be gouerned by the rules of the worde vnder no kind of persons gouernment but of such an Eldership The 2. Demonstration If Christ bee the authour and left it by his Apostles to be established Demonstration then it is perpetuall But Christ is the Authout in that hee gaue giftes for the particular members and the whole bodie thereof So it appeareth 1. Cor. 12.12 And the Apostles not going beyonde their commission established it Ergo it is perpetuall To the Maior It is not necessarily true Remonstrance for Christ by his spirite was the Authour of that which the Apostles established for absteining from blood and strangled yet was not this perpetuall To the Minor The very place which you meane but quote wrong vz. 1. Cor. 12.12 and afore neither prooueth anie giftes giuen to the particular members of any such eldership nor to the whole bodie of it the place is as the body is one and hath many members al the members of that one body being many is but one body so Christ What doeth this proue any giftes giuen either to the particular members or whole bodie of your Eldership The giftes that a litle afore are reckoned to be seuerally giuen to seueral persons are The worde of wisedome the worde of knowledge faith giftes of healing the working of great or miraculous workes prophesie discerning of spirites diuersitie of tongues and interpretation of tongues If enery of these be a seuerall gift for a seueral officer in your Elderships then in steede of three vz. Doctors Pastors and Elders for I think you now haue learned of the French discipline to exclude Deacons you haue nine officers in al. To runne ouer therfore but those officers you are hitherto agreed on which of these seuerall giftes shall the pastour haue which the Doctour and which the Elders He that hath the worde of wisedome shall he not haue the worde of knowledge nor faith and he that hath faith the last of these three shall he be knowne by it as by a specificall difference from the rest and haue neither of the other and hee that hath knowledge shall he neither haue wisedome nor faith Here you had neede to haue Ariadnes threede to winde your selues out of this Labyrinth and how will ye accommodate the other sixe giftes and to whom the most whereof if not all are long agone ceassed I knowe you cannot shew an ocular demonstration of these sixe giftes remaining and atchieued not by industry but without all ordinary meanes as it was then in any Eldership or Synode in the world nor euer shal be able if you liue out Methuselah his yeeres You see then the grosse absurdities that followe your appropriating and tying of seuerall giftes to your seuerall and peculiar officers yet is it almost the onely reason in substance which with a little diuersitie of dressing you serue out in twentie seuerall dishes And you may with confusion of faces acknowledge your licentious boldenesse in abusing the Scriptures both here and elsewhere to make shewe of seruing your turnes Which ariseth hereof that you bring not your senses to the scripture but draw the Scripture that is not of priuate interpretation vnto your owne fantasticall senses and vnderstandings The 3. Demonstration Whatsoeuer is commanded and neuer repealed the Church must receiue that as perpetuall But such is the gouernment of the Church by the Eldership Demonstration in that S. Paul mentioneth them and are to be esteemed as commandements of the Lord. 1. Cor. 14.37 Ergo To the Maior One instance vndoeth this to absteine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from strangled Remonstrance was a commandement neuer repealed yet not binding vs nor perpetuall To the Minor That is not the meaning of S. Paul Whosoeuer is a Prophet or spirituall let him acknowledge that the things which I write vnto you are the Lords commandements what for a presbytery or eldership where is any such commandement in S. Paul if it be we embrace it as the Lords The wordes alleadged are spoken of those Prophesyings in course by any Christian to whom it was reueiled which was an vse of the primitiue Church yet not retained now in any the reformed Churches and is condemned euen by our Consistorials in the Barrowists a broode of their owne hatching At Geneua Caluin once erected such prophesyings at which a learned Phisition woulde often speake against the course of the doctrine of Predestination in that sort as Caluin taught it whereupon Caluin caused that Exercise to be strangled in his swadling clothes so that a more pregnant place could not be brought to proue some commaundements of Christ vnto the first Church to be such as cannot be