pleased God to reserue two of the strōgest in out liuing their first labours more thā 20. years the most learned and iudicious Bishop of Winton D. Reynolds the one for his dialogues against the Iesuits the other for his conference with Hart wherein they see their desire on their enimies no aduersary daring to propound against either of them Who doth not thinke the memory of D. Humfrey is yet fresh and laudable in the highest degree for his answere to Campians chalenge for elegancy of stile exactnesse of method and substance of matter without all cast of the dice as Lactantius said by St. Cyprian D. VVillet hath bin very painefull as his Synopsis and Tetrastilon doe plainely shew The venerable Deane of Exeter D. Sutcliue may not in this page of praise be omitted for answering aswel the most learned amōg the aduersaries as those that haue the most dissolute tongues Bellarmine and Gifford It woulde be too long to reakon all therfore I cōtent my selfe with picking out the choise It shal alwaies be my praiers vnto Almighty God that whensoeuer it shall please him to call these or any of these to him selfe out of this wearisome life there may others arise in your places to goe on with the cause as the Poet speaketh of the Golden bough primo avulso non deficit alter Aeneid lib 6. one being taken away there wanteth not an other and so giue the aduersarie not so much as a breathing time And when you of the Cleargie and Schollers haue thus discharged their duties to God the Prince what rests for the Laity to doe but to take vp and read and hauing read as the men of Baerea in the Acts to compare both sides with the scripture then resolue to iustifie the truth in all sinceritie Act. 17. And to you I say this againe the clearnesse and perspicuitie of your writings hath added such a plainenes to my vnderstanding to the finding out of the truth that if I should not absolutely averre that the doctrine this day taught and professed in this Realme were the true and sincere doctrine of Christ and of his Church I should surely sin against mine owne conscience the contrarie of the Church of Rome beeing only built on the rubbish of contradictions impieties gloses slights falsifications and forgeries as by the samplar which I haue drawne out of their bookes for that purpose wil manifestly appeare I say not to you who are mighty in knowledge that way already but to euerie meane reader for whose sakes only I vndertooke this labour Ignoscant scientes ne offēdātur nescientes satius est offerre habēti quà m differre non habentē Aug. de bapt contra Donat. lib. 2. cap. 1. The Lord Iehova continue the Kings Maiestie in his holie intention of furthering and fauouring the doctrine established and blesse prosper the Reuerend Bishops and Cleargy to be watchfull against the common adversarie the Papist And to giue the rest of the Kingdome sound resolutiō to ioine strongly togither to the discountenauncing of Antichrist and all his designes From Tydworth the 1. of Nouember 1607. Yours in all duty and reverence John Panke TO AL OBSTINATE AND STIFFE Recusants held in wilfull blindnesse and to all luke-warme indifferent Papists not yet fully setled in their Recusancy health of body and soundnesse of iudgment I That hitherto bin your courses poore seduced Bretheren by the charge that your Masters haue laid on you to refuse all manner of conference with vs or to read any of our treatises or books that do any way tend to the crossing of your opinions which purpose as it taketh away all sounde iudgement which may anie way come vnto you so it hath given me for my part a ful a resolute determination never to beleeue but that by that policy they only would vphold the drift of their religion that they feare it woulde fal if it shoulde come to trial To meete with this mischiefe on your part I haue taken a labor not vsual to win you if it be possible to reading I haue laide almost forty of your owne writers togither some our owne countrymen here at home others the best of your side that ever wrot The Catologue of their names and editions of their books that so you be not deceiued I haue noted vnto you in the next pages following I haue compared them in three of the principal questions betweene you and vs. The sacrifice of your Masse Reall presence or transubstantiation and Popes supremacy and do protest I never did nor yet do thinke any man living is able to take those authors and proue any of those points by them or can draw out a plaine and simple forme of speech how they would bee vnderstoode in any of those questions I am not ignorant neither do I make your teachers so simple but you and they can say This they belieue in grosse 1 you offer vp the sonne of God to his father and that is your Masse 2 you haue him really present and so you eate him and that is your sacrament And 3 that the Pope is Christs Vicar and that is your beliefe All this I beleeue you can say but this is not that which you ought to seeke at your teachers hands For come to explane what agreement your Masse hath with that which Christ did at his last supper the night before he suffered And what that was which he did at his last supper and what the morrow on the crosse And what your Masse is to either or both When we aske discourse vpon this here they stagger and turne like madde men as though it did belong to them only to affirme what they lusted and yeeld no account of what they say or indeed as though they knew not what to say Harding What wordes are there and what termes are not there Stapleton Not as vpon the Crosse explane and proue How is it vnbloudy The Rhemists say that the same bloud that Christ shed on the Crosse is in the chalice at Masse Dureus saith the sacrifice of the Masse is not without bloud in it but is offered with out shedding of bloud Cōt Whit. rat 4. fol 183. what shoulde the bloud do ther if it be not shed How the Pope claimeth his supremacy is doubted of amongst them Being demanded where be the words of scripture by which the Priest hath power to offer vp Christ to God his father they answere there be words that set forth an obligation in act and deede but no termes expressed a solution to a question much like the direction givē by a Miller to a passenger who bid him leaue the bottome and ride the lower way betweene the two hils What difference is there betweene word and tearms Can any man distinguish The Church offereth a daily sacrifice not as vpon the crosse but the selfesame thing that was offered on the crosse The thing offered is one selfe same sacrifice but in
the seas Ex officina Christophori Plant. an 1571 Iun. in epist ad illustrissimum principem Ioannem Casimi rum Hunc foetum genuerunt illi sed nascentem inter genua sua presserunt as it was a going was intercepted The verie Authenticall booke of their owne impression singulari numinis prouidentiâ by gods prouidence was brought to a great Protestant who toke the pains for thē to send it by copies vnto al Protestāt Churches in Christendome so that that birth of theirs which like another monster they were diuers daies and nights in bringing forth thought when they had brought it forth to haue stifled it between their knees doth now liue in good liking through good cherishing but to the perpetuall in famie of the parents An other helpe like vnto that before in effect they doe also vse to make their schollers to thinke that the ancient Doctors of the Church doe all make for them The elder schollers and those that read vnto the rest take paines most in the controuersies hauing found what liketh thē to confirme their doctrine doe write it in breife deliuer it in notes to their schollers out of their written sheetes neuer suffering them to looke into the doctors originalls thēselues so that whensoeuer it please the Masters to coggorly either by adding or abating the text which they finde the schollers are deceaued abused thinking such such authorities doe make for them when if the grounds bee looked into they shew nothing lesse then they quote them for which dealing of the Masters with their owne schollers caused a faithfull teacher of this land Reinolds conference with Hart. c. 1. diuis 1. fol. 4. to wish his Concumbatāt for his owne good to looke into the originall books themselues for proofe of that which he was to dispute of because he knewe hee would otherwise bee deceaued if hee trusted those on whom he meant to relie which was the greatest freest liberty that could be graunted to anie man Thus much haue I bin willing to shew by the way at first Sic. habent principia sese Ter. in Phor. Act. 3. scen 1. touching their politick but not religious courses in astonishing the world vvith that religion vvhich only is boulstred out by manie indirect courses perceaued euerie day more more I wil now according to my first intent goe forward to set before your eies the manie differences and implications which they vse in expressing their minds in that question of the sacrament betweene them vs remembring here noe other thinge then that which themselues doe euer giue in charge In the explication of the true catholike faith in the sacrament f 4. b Then is the doctrine of the Church of Rome not the truth as shall manifestly appeare hereafter to be regarded advised vpon to be ioined with that good counsel of D. Hardinge set down before Amongst manie other proofs saith Gardiner wherby truth after much trauaile in contention at the last preuaileth hath victorie there is none more notable then when the verie adversaries of truth who pretend never the lesse to be truthes freinds doe by some euident vntruth bewraie themselues For on that part ever is the truth where al sayings doings appear vniformely consonāt to the truth pretended And on what side a notable lie appeareth the rest maie be iudged after the same sort for truth needeth noe aide of lies craft or slight NOTE WEL wherwith to be supported maintained So that in the intreating of the truth of this high ineffable mysterie of the sacrament on what part thou seest craft shift slight or obliquitie or in anie one point an open manifest lie there thou maiest consider whatsoeuer pretence bee made of truth yet the victorie of truth not to be there intēded which loueth simplicitie plain nesse direct speech without admixture of shift or colour Thus farre Gardener To this purpose also speaketh D. Saunders Protestantium inter se dissensiones certissimam fidem faciuat doctrinae veritatem non penes illos verum penes ecclesiam Romanamesse Devisibili monar l. 7. f. 627. The dissentions amongst the Protestants saith he doe make evident proofe that the truth is not on their sides but altogether on the Church of Romes wherin amongst the beleiuers there is one hart one soule on tongue vnder one Pastor the Pope Now if notwithstanding their braggs of truth evidence of truth nothing but truth on their side there doe fall out in searching of their bookes that they doe nothing lesse thē further that which they most extol I hope you will not laie the fault blame on me that doe but shew that so they doe but rather on them whoe deliuer such matter Si illum obiurges vitae qui auxilium tulit Terenc in Andr act 1. scen 1 quid facias illi qui dederit damnum aut malum saith the Poet If you blame him that shal further your health by his best indeauour what wil you doe to an other that shal seeke to bring you into danger But indeed all their clamours against vs or petite glozes in defence of themselues or faire admonitions to their readers Actor P Clodius aedilis Reus sui que patronus Cice ro acta in sen anno Ciceronis 51. vrbis 697. de haruspicū respōsis to beware of vs are but as that accusation of Publius Clodius against Tully who hauing himselfe sacrilegiously abused certaine holy things appertaining to the Temple and fearing least Tuily would accuse him in the senate first complained of him that all religion was prophaned in his house Tub. I both perceaue what you would saie as also what you are willing I should conceaue touching their dealing in these matters Goe to the question of the sacrament I pray you because in that they pretend most perspicuitie clearnesse Rom. I knowe they doe In confidence wherof on that was great amongst them once said Camp rat 2. Adhuc durissimae partes Caluini sūt nostrae faciles explicatae Moreouer the Protestāts are verie harsh in this question but our arguments are cleare expedite which whether it be so or noe iudge you The counsell of Trent which they al follow Conc Trid. less 13. can 1. on whom they al depend in this and all other points hath thus defined therof Si quis negauerit c. If anie man shal denie that in the sacrament of the holy Eucharist there is not contained vere realiter substantialiter truly really substantially the body blood together with the soule diuinitie of our Lord sauiour Iesus Christ in that respect whole Christ let him bee accursed negaueritque mirabilem illam singularem conuersionem totius substantiae panis in corpus or shal denie that maruelous only conversion of the whole substance of the bread Can. 2. into the body and of the whole substance of the wine
covenant and promise aside are not worthy of eternal life Gods mercy and promise is then his best stake howsoeuer sometimes he would pul it vp To make our workes truely and properly meritorious and fully worthy of euerlasting life What they say of good works Rhem. 2. Tim. 4 v 8. Ieam c. 2 v. 22. What they say of good works and more principal causes in the matter of iustification then faith to make them the cause of heauen as ill deeds are the cause of hel To say that we may trust vnto them that they are true righteousnesse and that they are able to abide the iudgment of God And yet to say that it is of his free mercie and liberality that either he promised any such reward to our works and that the works of themselues are his none of ours and that when he crowneth our works he crowneth his owne gifts that he rewardeth them aboue our desert and al this in respect of his free promise and graunt are the words of men that are disposed to play their parts on a stage and when they are out of their parts to imagin some God to come downe amongst them to keepe their credit with the people for their tenor and breefe of all their talke is we haue truely and properlie deserued heauen because of his free bountie mercie he first promised and then gaue it vs. Stapleton after much debating of this questiòn De vniuets iustif doct lib. 10 c. 7. fol. 361. God is to himself not not to vs. commeth in the end to this That debter whensoeuer we doe read in the ancient fathers that god is debter vnto vs in the great gift of eternal life It must be vnderstood as debter to himselfe and in respect of his owne promises and that hee is not debter vnto vs to himselfe not to vs for his own promises not for the worthines of vs or our woorks If this suffice them wee will stand to it God is iust saiâ— we in that he keepeth promise and doth not deceaue his of that reward Whitak cont Gul. Reynold fol. 58. which they hope for but the promise is free for freely he promised and freely hee giueth yet in that hee bound himself vnto vs by his free promise it was iust that he should performe the same not that wee haue iustly and worthilie deserued any part of that reward but because it is meete that God be alwaies faithfull in his words And so make him if debter to any theÌ„ to himselfe as Stapleton speaketh The Crowne is the reward which God hath promised to the worke not because the worke is vvorthie of it but because it pleased him so graciously and liberaly to bestowe such excellent rewards vpoÌ„ vs that haue deserued so little and so keep in with the promise and couenant and exact nothing of him because al are his as Bellarmine a voucheth Cui redderet coronam iustus iudex si noÌ„ donasset gratiaÌ„ misericors pater quomodo eslet ista corona iustitiae nisi pra cessisset gratia quae iustificat impium Augde gra lib. arb c. 6. â—nnot 2. Tim. 4. v. 8. And when he crowneth vs he crowneth his owne gifts not our workes giuing before what he repaieth after For how should hee repay as a iust iudge vnlesse he had first giuen as a merciful father how should this be a crowne of iustice if grace had not gon before which iustifieth the vngodly man as saie the Rhemists Of these notes and the rest in this whole booke following I would haue you that are seduced to demand of your teachers what they thinke praying them to reveiwe reexamine them and for your parts to marke how they answere defend their opinioÌ„s but see with your own eies trust not theirs Thinke that the verie debating of these questions vvhich they cannot chuse but handle hath drawen such confessioÌ„s from them settle your selues but once to compare their reasons First with the holie scripture then with the ancient fathers of the primitiue time and lastly by the protestant writers of this age in the Church of England and then iudge where the truth is you wil then sone perceiue I wil speake of one for all that noe man can more fully contradict Bellarmine then Bellarmine doth himselfe Nec enim poterit ab vilo Cicero quam Cicerohe vehemen ius resutari l 2. c. 9. fol. 148 Cicer pro domo sua post medium Staplet in the fortresse f. 5. b as Lactantius said of Tully If he or anie of them or al of them bee growen in your opinious great it is but the elemeÌ„ts of your sloth that wil not giue you leaue to looke on him Calamitas huius temporiss lan dem viri propagauit The miserie of this time wherin pusillanimity so much reigneth in your mindes hath gotten him the praise he hath and not the cause he handleth for looke into that and you vvill bee ashamed both of it and him Wee all iumpe in this As noe building standeth without a sure and substantial foundation so noe life no saluation is to be hoped for vvithout a right and true faith Let vs therfore look whom vve trust and what vve beleue Sireligio tollitur vulla nobis ratio cum coelo est Lactant l 3 〈◊〉 10. away religion fol. 224. Take and we haue noe societie with heauen Non hic nobis labor Invtilis ad pernitiem sed vtili ad salutem Aug ep 111. The Iewes could tel that the golden calfe which they worshiped was not God yet were they idolaters and the heathen did not thinke did not thinke that those thinges which they made with their hands to be Gods c. and yet were they grosse Idolaters A quibus si persuasionis eius rationem requiras nuilam possint reddere sed ad maio rum iudicia coÌ„fugiant quod alli sapientes fuerint illi pro bauerint illi scierint quid esset optimum seque ipsos seÌ„sibus spoliant ratione abdicant dum alienis erroribus jeredunt Lact 5. c. 20. the labour therof is not vnprofitable leading vs to destruction but profitable bringing to salvation Beleiue not them that woulde drawe you from knowledge Knowe that they abuse you that saie the scriptures are not for you to read and al to keepe you in ignorance because you shal not see what they say or doe Take you heed of them that teach you worshiping of Images praying to Saints that plead their pardons their purgatorie noe one sillable in Gods booke sounding anie waie to either of them I knowe they haue excuses that you doe it not to the image but to the thinge represented which excuse besides that it is the same that the Iewes and all Idolaters that vvere heathen could make for themselues it is a moÌ„strous vntruth in it selfe They know there be amongst them who haue written in defence of the vvorshiping of the imag of the Crosse and trinitie
the questions they treat of they treat of al betweene the church of Rome and the church of England in the Masse sacrifice real presence service in a strange tongue halfe communion Popes supremacy worshipping of Images or in any difference else and shew me any apparant abuse of holy scripture or history contradiction each from other shift couler or devise to darken the truth in any of those points let it be in the least nature as those that I haue already will further shew in the booke following and I protest before God I wil fully giue over either to write or speak any thing against you Osey c. 8. 1. Cor. 14.20 Da domine vt te quem bene credendo con fiteor male viuendo nō denegem te quem strenuâ fide sequor ac tu negligentiae operibus non offendam Aug. Epist 111. but wil wholy apprehend your religion as consonant to the truth They that sow winde shall reape a storme Brethren be not children in vnderstanding but as concerning maliciousnes be children but in vnderstanding be men of a ripe age I beseech almightle God to make vs as wise as Serpents in prouiding the food of everlasting life to nourish our soules and as innocent as doues in doing ill that the corruptions of our liues doe not taint it From Tidworth the 1. of Nouember 1607. Iohn Panke THE NAMES OF THE POPISH Writers out of which this booke hath beene gathered 1 The third part of Thomas Aquinas summes with Caietans tracts annexed printed at Lions 1588. 2 The Sentences of Lumbard at Lions 1593. 3 The Trent counsell at Antwerpe 1596 4 The Romane Catechisme set out by the decree of the Tridentine counsell 1596. at Antwerpe 5 The Index Expurgatorius by the decree of the Tridētine counsell at Lions 1586. 6 The English Testament set out by the Colledge at Rhemes anno 1582. 7 Copes Dialogues at Antwerpe 1566. 8 Gregorie Martin against our authorised translatiōs at Rhemes 1582. 9 D. Allen of the sacraments at Antwerpe 1576. 10 Stapleton of Iustification against the protestants at Paris 1582. 11 Saunders visible monarchy at VVirceburge 1592. 12 Albertus Pyghius of eccle siasticall gouernment for the Popes Monarchie at Colen 1572. 13 Alphonsus â Castro against heresies 1534. 14 Tonstall b. of Durisme of the truth of the body and bloud of Christ in the Eucharist at Paris 1554. 15 Melchior Canus his diuinitie places at Colen 1585. 16 Hieronymus Torrensis gathered S. Aug. Confessions at Paris 1580. 17 Andradius defence of the Tridentine counsell at Colen 1580. 18 Another of Andradius in defener of the diuines of Colen against Kemnitius at Colen 1564. 19 Lodovicus Granatensis of a publike Communion at Colen 1586. 20 Eckius Enchiridion of common places at Colen 1600. 21 Genebrards Chronicles at Colen 1581. 22 Fasciculus Temporum 23 Polidorus virgilius of the first finders out of thinges at Franckford 1599. 24 Abdtas Bishop of Babylon writing the liues of the Apostles at Colen 1576. 25 The third tome of the Homeles of the anciēt fathers set out by the decree of the Trēt coūsel at Lions 1588 26 D. Hardings answere to B. Iuell chalenge at Antverpe 1565. 27 D. Hardings Reioynder to B. Iewells Replie 28 Dormans proofe of certaine articles denied by Mr. Iewell at Antwerpe 1564. 29 The returne of vntruthes by Stapleton against B. Iuells reply at Antwerpe 1566 30 A Catechisme by Laurence Vaux Bachelour of diuinitie an 1583. 31 VVilliam Reynolds against D. VVhitaker called a refutation of sundry reprehensions written at Rhemes and printed at Paris 1583. 32 Stephen Gardiner against B. Cranmer touching the sacrament called an explication and assertion of the true Catholike faith c. 33 Another of his called a detection of the deuils sophistrie anno 1546. 34 The fortresse of the faith by Stapleton annexed to Bedes history in english 35 Iohn Dureus his confutation of D. VVhitakers answere in the behalfe of Campian Paris 1582. 36 The disputations of Bellarmine against the Protestants in generall in 9. volumes reveiwed and acknowledged by the author at Ingolst adium by Adame Sartorius anno 1599. 37 Moditations on the my steries of the Rosary of the most blessed Virgin Marie translated into english 38 A popish supplication to the Kings Maiestie 1604. 39 Guicciardines historie in english by G. Fenton 40 A table in writing hand of a Catalogue of the Popes from Saint Peter hitherto 41 The firme foundation of Catholike religion translated by Pansfoote approued by Stapleton Antwerpe 1590. 42 Platina with Onuphrius annotations on the liues of the Popes at Louaine anno 1572. 43 Anastasius the Popes librarie keeper of the liues of the Popes at Magunce anno 1602. The Speakers Tuberius the Gent. Romannus the Scholler YOV knowe Romannus if so you remember that through a meere accident or rather a determination of God about Easter was 12. moneths you and I did meet when after some words of controuersie wee fell into a discourse touching my beeing abroad at that festiual time which occasioned some further matter touching a scruple in my mind then vttered vnto you my not receauing of the Communion neither then nor at anie time before Rom. Indeed Tuberius I remember it wel as also the summe of our talke at that time deliuered I hope I satisfied you in that point how necessarie to salvation it is for euerie Christian man to participate of the flesh and bloud of Christ in the sacrament of the supper so that for that matter I hope you need no farther lessons Tub. For the necessitie therof I am resolued but yet by the settling therof there is an orher question annexed to it which I am afraid wil bee noe lesse a maine barre vnto my conscience for not receauing now as that other was before of doubt whether I might receaue at all or not the former of the thinge this other of the beleife of the thinge For not to hide from you anie thinge which maie breed my disquiet but to acquaint you therwith since my last being with you I did light into other companie where talking of questions of saluatiō I related vnto them so much of our conference as touched the maine point of necessitie of receauing that sacrament and was told by them that I did verie wel in apprehending so hie a point in the worship seruice of God But when Irelated what manner of man you were in laying open vnto me what a sacrament was of the dignitie and worth of that sacrament and lesse that I had the while that I abstained and other instructions therto belonging as at the latter end you did they perceiued what you were and were noe lesse angry vvith me for attending you therin then offended with you for instructing mee that waie They called themselues Catholikes of others they are vsuà lly stiled Papists but whatsoeuer they be in name me thinkes their care ouer me is very good that I should enter the right waie touching my bee
the text The Doctors that defeÌ„d theÌ„ The manner of handling them or quoting of places not to be found to vse any vaine and foolish shifts in answere such as any may perceaue to bee feeble weake to deliuer their mindes so doubtfully that an English man in the English tongue shal not vnderstand vvhat they meane to be so contrarie and opposite on to an other and many times each froÌ„ himselfe to dispute for that which they confesse is not so ancient nor so good as the contrary It is an olde saying a rich man need not bee a theife and a good cause at their handes cannot bee lost for lack of pleading only that which wanteth is the truth of the cause they haue bin fashioÌ„ing of it these many yeares euer anon there comme some experter masters than formerly vvith some fresher vernish but noe better prose some tast of this dealing I gaue the readers be-but a more larger euidence and veiw shal follow after in diuers of the points mentioned that all the vvorld shal see confesse that the popish religion at this day taught and professed by the verie confused handling of it is nothinge lesse then accient catholike and true which shal be so faithfully collected that they shal not be denied to be their owne and so plaine for vnderstanding Peruium cunctis iter Sence in Oct. art 2. that although you concâ—aue little or nothing of the questions theÌ„selues yet you shall perceaue the weaknesse of their side by the manner of laying downe their proofes and defences Tub. When I shal see that performed substaÌ„tially which you haue here promised confidently I wil surly stay my haÌ„d from subscribing my harte from consenting to anie such doctrine as shal stand vpon such proofes Rom. By the grace of God I wil not faile to shew it you you shal not take any thing vpon report you shall see and read their owne bookes and discourses themselues and since now you are the man vnto vvhose conscience I appeale for your consent to our side let me shew you the dutie of a reader in a case of controuersie betweene two noe otherwise then D. Harding in his Reioynder against B. Iuell touching them both doth lay it down to you and me and al men else To the reader The dutie of a reader Consider I require thee saith he what is thy duty Remember thou be not partiall towards either of our persons Let all affection be laide aside Let your conscience be the rule of both loue hatred Let neither hope nor feare haue place in your hart to win or loose by either of our fortunes yea if you can so conceaue let our bookes represent vnto thee not Iuell Harding but two men Iohn Thomas departed this worlde to noe man liuing knowen to haue liued And when you haue left of all affection touching our persons then study to discharge thy minde of all blind parciality towards both our doctrines abandoning all humane likings and carnall phantasies with a single eie simple hart behold imbrace what is good true only for loue of God and for the truthes sake Being thus desposed commend your selfe vnto God with praier beseeching him to lighten your vnderstanding by his holie spirit to lead you vnto the truth This done with an humble hart read both our Treatises and iudg yet this much I saie in case of necessitie not to all in generall but to certaine such as by other meanes will not bee induced to consider of the truth The reply is that which B. Iuell wrot against him for otherwise I acknowledge that both the REPLY and all other hereticall bookes by order of the Church without speciall licence bee vnlawfull to be read and are vtter he forbidden to bee read or kept vnder paine of excoÌ„municatioÌ„ Remember I saie the part of a iudge is to iudge as the Lawyers speake secundum allegata probata that is to saie as things be alleadged proued Beware everie thing is not proued for which authorities bee alleadged Nota bene neither is all made good which by probable arguments seemeth to be concluded Allegations must be true plaine simple neither weakned by taking awaie nor strengthened by putting to of wordes nor wrested from the sence they beare in the writer else they bewraie the feeblenesse of the cause for proofe whereof they be alleadged also the great vntruth of theÌ„ that for furtherance of their purpose abuseth them if they haue corrupted their witnesses or brought in false witnesses if they haue vntruly reported their Doctors shamfully falsified their sayings theÌ„ ought you to giue sentence against them then is their honestie stained then is their credit defaced and then is their challenge quiet dashed Thus farr D. Harding Mat. 27.24 And Pilate tooke water and washed his handes before the multitude saying I am innocent of the bloud of this iust man euen so cleare is M. Hardinge and his fellowes froÌ„ misreporting the Doctors or falsifying their sayings or in not committing any thing wherof they would seeme to be most free as anon shal appeare Tub. Me thinketh by these words of D. Harding by your request made before vnto me that both parties on both sides require nothing more then that al their readers should ponder waighe the allegations proofes both of the one side other and then iudge of the truth accordingly but I feare he meaneth nothing less because he saith that both the REPLY al other hereticall books by order of the church without speciall licence bee vnlawfull to bee read or kept By hereticall bookes hee meaneth the protestants writings which inference abridgeth the libertie of reading consequeÌ„tly of iudging by any indifferent way or meane to come to the knowledge of the truth For the heathen Poet could deliuer a good speech to that purpose by the very light of naturall discourse Qui statuit aliquid parte inauditâ alterâ Aequum licet statuerit haud aquus fuit Senec in Med Act. 2. He that not hearing either part ponounceth his decree Vnrighteous maÌ„ accounted is though right his sentence be Rom. I did includ so much in mine owne speech vnto you before but that perhaps you wil sooner approue of your owne obseruation then my collection And to tel you truly which you shal certainty find by conuersing more with theÌ„ they doe not suffer the common laitie amongst them to see or read or heare any thinge without speciall licence so much and such parcells as it shal please them But those that they knowe are so stiffe and obstinate that nothing will a waken their vnderstanding perhapps they will giue some small libertie of reading the better to colour their denial to others And this doe they not only touching the vse or reading either of the holy scriptures or of the protestants bookes Hard cont Iuell art 2. fol. 56. In
theÌ„ al there is noe one that standeth sure either to himselfe or to his fellowes it must needes bee iudged the weaknesse of the cause which they maintaine Conâ—ut resp Whitak rat 9. sol 601. that cause them thus to stumble Dureus the Iesuite comming to handle this matter against D Whitakers saith If Christ testified that which hee gaue to his disciples was his body assuredly it could not be bread from whence it necessarily commeth to passe that the bread which Christ took into his haÌ„ds was changed into his body by the force and vertue of his diuine wordes â—oc totam nimirum quam manicus tenebat substantiaÌ„ demonstrans est corpus meum Accipitâ— inquit Christus comedite Take saith Christ eate Quid tandem what then This shewing al that substance which he had in his hands is my body Why how now Dureus why walke you in these cloudes why doe you not tell vs what substance that was which Christ had in his handes Bread or noe bread the bodie or noe bodie That which Christ tooke he gaue although you deny it saying panem in manus accepisse fatcor Dureus rat 2. fol. 94. dedissenego That Christ tooke bread in his hands I confesse that he gaue bread I denie but was not the bread which he took that substance which you saie he shewed hauing it in his hands it cannot be otherwise for the words of chang as you saie this is my bodie not come yet If Dureus aunswere as hee will that he spake not of the bread which he tooke let him yet resolue vs what inbstance that was which he had in his han des shewed his disciples when he said Take eate this is my body Fecistis probèi incertior sum mulâ—o quaÌ„ dudum Teren in Phor. act 2. scen 3. Si verò quenquam illud ad huc moueat quomodo pro. nomina in sacramentalibus verbis possint demonstra re corpns sanguinem quae adhuc non suÌ„t cum ca efferuÌ„tur aut quomodonoÌ„ plane in dicent paneÌ„ vinum quae reuera tum ex istunt-Legat c. AlleÌ„ de sac Euch. l. 1. f. 42â— Bellar. de sacr Euc. l i c. ii f. 83 This doth not demonstrate the bread nor the body according to Thomas It doth not demonstrate the bread precisly Sic tamen vt demonstratio proprie ad species pertineat Sed in obliquo hoc modo Ibid fol. 85. Ibid. fol. 88 This Ens this thinge or this substance If he resolue not this he resolueth not our doubt but leaueth vs more vncertaine theÌ„ before for this is it that troubleth vs how the word this can demonstrate the body and blood which are not there when the word is spoken not demonstrate point the bread wine which certainly are there then as saith D. Allen And if the bread wine be there then euen when the wordes this is my body are spoken then are they there both at the breaking and giuing as they vtterly woulde denie Sâ—…ll Bellarmine the mouth of their senate conclude the coÌ„trouersie yes say they we al agree Heare him theÌ„ a maÌ„ of a polished wit Although saith hee the Catholikes doe agree in the thinge yet doe they not agree in the manner of explaining what the worde this should demonstrate Two famous opinions there are amongst them one that the pronoune this should demonstrate the body which opinion he refuseth as not consonant to the truth howsoeuer Allen and Saunders as you heard before did so teach The other is of Thomas Aquinas others verie manie whoe haue followed him that the pronoune this doth not demonstrate the bread precisely nor the bodie but a substance in common which is vnder those formes yet so that the demonstration appertaineth properly to the formes but not that the fence be This that is these formes are my body but thus on this sort this is my body that is vnder these formes is my bodie So that the word This doth not demonstrate the bread nor the body of Christ but that which is coÌ„tained vnder those forms Therfore we doe not say saith he this that is this substance or as Scotus this Ens but This that is the substance contained vnder these formes Here in Bellarmine you haue al that art or falshood can deuise to darken the truth with all Doth anie man yet conceaue by them what the word This poiuteth vnto but for very shame he wold saie it pointed to the bread he denieth it but in part he saith it doth not preciselie point the bread therfore I say he doth not precisely denie it His fellowes before him wil in noe sort haue it so But hee vtterly denieth that it pointeth to the body yet is he more out then they when hee saith the demonstration this doth properly belonge to the formes and yet the sence must not bee These formes are my body But not withstanding his deniall it must be so if he saiâ— true For if you referre the word this to the bread the sence wil be This bread is my body This body is my body Theâ—… formes are my body 〈◊〉 bread it my bodie therfore they denie it If it be referred to the body the sense must be this bodie is my bodie which Bellarmine denieth And what should let but if he saie it pointeth to the formes it should bee These formes are my body But he wil haue it thus That which is contained vnder these formes is my bodie And what with him them too is contained vnder those formes but the body of Christ Bread they saie there is none so according to Bellarmine the sense wil be This body vnder these formes is my bodie or otherwise to tel vs directly what it was that was contained vnder those formes In the chapter next beefore reciting out of S. Bellar de euch sacra l. 1. c. 10. fol. 69. Allen de Euc. sac l. 1. c. 15. Rhem an not Mat. 26 v. 26. parag 7. Refertur ad materiam quae erat in manibus Luc. 9. Marc. 8 Luc. vlt. Resolue me in this and I will yeild the whol Markes Gospel the order of the EvaÌ„gelists he saith it cannot bee doubred but Christ hauing taken the bread blessed it brake it gaue it to his disciples but as the breaking and giuing is referred to the matter which was in his handes so his blessing too should bee referred thither which was to the bread We grant him if so that wil pleasure him that Christ blessed the bread and that Christ neuer vsed to blesse or giue thanks but at some notable memorable worke as at the multiplying of the loaues in the Gospel and blessing of his disciples is read here in the institution of the supper But did Bellarmine euer read that the blessing of any creature sensible or insensible was the changing transubstantiation of the substance of it so that it was not the same substance after
vs Notwithstanding this saith he it must not be dissembled that there are some diuines amongst whom is Bonauenture Caietane Dominicus Soto who affirme that Christ did not blesse by the wordes of Consecration therfore to blesse the bread and to consecrate the bread was two diuers things in the action of Christ so the chāge was not made by the blessing but after by the sacramentall wordes Which opinion saith he although it may probably be defended may seeme to be agreeable to the vse of the Church which nowe blesseth the bread by the signe of the Crosse before it vse the word of Consecration and may lesse trouble the order of the Evangelists who after the mention of blessing doe put the breaking distributing then in the fourth place the word of the sacrament it bringeth also some reuerence to the sacrament for if bread should bee broken by Christ after it were consecrate some small mites of the cōsecrated host might by likely hood haue fallen away These reasons saith he although they be waighty yet the safer opinion more agreeable to antiquitie and in euerie Church almost allowed which the Tridentine counsel doth in their catechisme follow is that whē Christ blessed he consecrated the things set before him That we ought so vnderstād that Christ blessed by saying This is my body 1. Hee tooke bread 2. Blessed it said 4. This is my body 3. He brake gaue Cicer. offic l. 2. although the Euāgelists by an inverted order of the speech or seting that after which should goe before doe put the distributing the breaking betweene the blessing and the forme of the sacrament which as it is very likly was done after the consecration or else euen as Christ did speake the words Facta omnia celeriter tanquam floscule decidunt This trecherie and deceipt cannot any lōger be hid it is apparent to all mē Neither is it any maruel that they who make of the Gospell as a thing made to bee handled as they thinke good should lose themselues in the labarinth of their owne druises as if reason had euen purposly forsaken them who of purpose forsake God the author therof For haue they these 1605. yeares been mounted on the stage of arrogancie out brauing a better cause then their owne and crying the Gospell the Gospell you Protestants heretiks both denie depraue it now doth D. Allen tell vs freely and vnconstrianedly that the Gospell will not serue their turnes as the Euangelists haue deliuered the order of the Lords supper What shall now become of Campians bragge Agedum pagella scripta superiores sumus ac sententia scripticontenditur Camp 2. ratio Goe to saith he we haue the better of it by the written word now we must debate the meaning No saith Allen the Gospel is not for vs And I say nether the writing nor the meaning of the writing is any for you And therfore Christo proprior ab hac lite remotior that age or antiquity which is nearest to Christ is farthest of from thē in this controuersy And for that one hand washeth an other they both wash the face often one foote strengthneth an other and they both stay the body so the testimonie of Cardinall Caietane in this case shall stay D Allen that hee be not vtterly ruinated because of his large graunt which they both haue yeelded in confirming the truth Caiet commēt super Tho p. 3 q. 75. art 1. Caietane in his Commentary on Thomas Aquinas vpō this question whether in the sacrament there be the body of Christace cording to the truth of it saith that touching that present demaund the rest following for the more manifest cleare vnd erstanding of the difficulties in them it is to be considered that touching the being of the body of Christ in the sacrament of the Eucharist there is nothinge writtē in the holy scripture but the words of our sauiour This is my body and those words must be true And because saith he the words of the scripture are expounded two waies ether properly or figuratiuely Vel propriè vel metaphoricè the first error about those wordes is of them that did interpret them figuratiuely which both the M. of the sentences Thomas doe proue in this article Ft consistit vis reprobationis in hoc the strēgth of the reproofe resteth in this that the words of the Gospell are vnderstood of the Church properly I say of the Church beecause there is not any constraint in the Golpell to cause vs to take them properly ex subiunctis siquidem verbis There is nothinge in the Gospell to cōstraine vs to take these wordes properly without a figure De lapsis ser 5. Cont. haeres l. 3. c. 11. fol. 237 Parisijs anno 1545. Allen vt ante l. 1. c. 16 Reciteth 4. seuerall opiniōs amōgst them touching the words of consecreation The iudgment of that Pope is refused who determined transubstantiation for thē for truly by the words following which shal be giuen for you in remission of sinnes it cannot bee concluded euidently that the former wordes This is my body are to be vnderstood properly So here be two cardinals Allen Catetaine who say that not the Gospel but the Church maketh for them Is there a Church where the Gospel is not Non iungitur Ecclesia qui ab Evangelio separatur he is not ioyned to the Church saith S. Cypriam who is separated from the Gospell S. Ireneus saith Columna firmametum ecclesie est Evāgelium spiritus vitae The Pillar and stability of the Church is the Gospel and the spirit of life But the truth is there is on their side in this question neither the Church nor the gospel nor any antiquitie at all To proceede with D. Allen in the other Chapter specified before by me wherein he laboureth to proue that the words of Christ This is my body are the words of Consecration he is further willing to let vs knowe what differences there hath bin amongst their schoole diuines who euer haue bin the vpholders of popery about the words of Consecratiō which they should be The first opinion is of Innocentius the third who called the great councel of Lateran and decreed Transubstantiatiō who said that Christ did consecrate by his divine power when he blessed and vsed therein the power of his might doing that without forme of words which we cannot do without a prescript order so that after he had consecrated he deliuered to vs these words This is my body by which words the Church should euer after consecrate This opinion of the Pope is reproved by Thomas Aquinas as beeing directly against the words of the scripture and by Allen as being vntrue The second opinion is of some who thought that Christ when hee blessed did consecrate 2. but with other words thā those where with he taught vs to consecrate But
of bread as also the natural property of nourishing feeding the body which is proper to bread Is it called bread because it hath the shew of bread by what figure Hath it the naturall properties of bread yet is it not bread say againe say truly it is called bread therfore it is bread It hath the naturall properties of bread feeding nourishing as also the accidents sauor waight tast colour and al and therfore it hath the name is indeed very bread They are so farre remoued from the center of trueth in these points that rather then they wil leaue their wils shut vp the streame of their owne affections they will leaue all hope of a sound beleefe What eateth the mouse if she or he I know not whether chance to catch of the cōsecrated host Lumb l. 4. dis◠13. a fine Aske the schoolman it becommeth their grauities to treate such questions It cannot bee said saith Lumbard that the body of Christ is eaten of bruite beastes although it seemeth so to bee when the mouse eateth then what eateth hee Deus nouit God knoweth that and hee that saith otherwise God knoweth that is adiudged an hereticke How then escapeth the Angelicall Doctor Quidam autem dixerunt 3. p. 80. q. art 3 ad 3. Some haue saide faith hee that as astone as the sacrament is touched by a Mouse or a Dogge the body of Christ ceaseth to be there But this derogateth from the truth of this sacrament neither must we say that a bruit beast doth eat the body of Christ sacramentally but it must bee saide that the Mouse eateth by chance Ibid. fol. 24. 2. as a man that shoulde eate the consecrated host vnknowne vnto him Now Gardiner saith contrary that no creature can eate the body and bloud of Christ but only man I let passe the rest of Aquinas prodigious base discourses touching some other cautels belonging to this sacramēt Ib. q. 83. art 6 ad 3. as if a spider should fall into the consecrated wine or poison should therewith be mingled which although with warrant good enough I might lay thē before you Tuberius because I am by al honest direct courses to warne you to beware you drinke not at that fountaine The maine scope of this treatise discourse whose fairest Streames are so filthy and loth some yet I will omit him now returne to some hand somer discourse and shew you that as they are found to faulter touching the particular drift of every word in the institution of the Lordes supper as the blessing breaking This is my body so if those were granted vnto them to bee as they would lay thē downe themselues that we should agree and say with them that the reall and substantiall body of Christ is present in the Eucharist yet can they not tel you neither the manner of the presence Art 5. cont Iuell fol. 127. b. Christ gaue his diciples the same body which suffered on the crosse the same body is there corporally carnally and naturally but not after a corporal carnall or natural wise but in visibly spiritually diuinly by way to him onlie knowen The maner of his presence is not locall or natural but such as God only knoweth Art 6. fol. 136. Corporally yet spiritually Carnally yet diuinely Naturally and yet supernaturally and by al these waies yet by none of these God only knoweth the way nor according to what body that presence is as whether according to that wherein hee lived heere in earth or whether as it is now qualisfied and glorious in heaven Whether with parts or without parts neither are they agreed how hee is eaten D. Harding saith it is cleare by many places of holy scripture that Christ at his last supper gaue to his disciples his very body even the same which the day following suffered death on the crosse which haue ministred iust cause to the godly learned fathers of the Church to say that Christs body is present in the sacrament really substantially corporally carnally and naturally by vse of which adverbes they haue ment only a truth of being so that we may say that in the sacrament his very body is present really that is to say indeed substantially that is in substance and corporally carnally naturally by which words is meant that his very body his very flesh and his very humane nature is there not after corporall carnall or naturall wise But invisibly vnspeakeably miraculously supernaturally spiritually divinely and by waie to him onlie knowne Againe Concerning the māner of the presence saith he being of that bodie bloud in the sacrament they that is the fathers we acknowledge and confesse that it is not locall circumscriptine definitiue or subiectiue or naturall but such as is knowen to God only In the next article The body of Christ saith he is made present in the blessed sacrament of the Altar vnder the forme of bread wine not after a grosse carnal maner but spiritually supernaturally yet substantially not by locall but by substantiall presence not by maner of quātitie or filling of a place or by chāging of place or by leaving his sitting on the right hand of God but in such a manner as God only knoweth and yet doth vs to vnderstand by faith the truth of his very presence far passing all mens capacities to comprehend the manner how Historia maxima nascitur do nihilo If M. Hardinge knowe not how it was in him an idle diligence to bee so copious in striuing to expresle the manner how Hath not he told vs He hath expressed our beleefe his owne two which is more then the manner how Corporally Carnally naturally saith he spiritually dininely say wee And yet he saith all confounding substantially spiritually God doth vs to vnderstand saith he by faith the truth of the presence What need faith sale I It is taken into the hād from the hād conferred to the mouth there they fasten their teeth Bellar. de sac euch l. 1. c. 2. f. 28. 29. and from thence to the stomacke The senses of sight feeling haue their offices here faith hath none nether is it hard to comprehend all this and more two Here is also one the same Christ with proportion of body members distinct each from other also without distinction of mēbers parts which ouerthroweth the truth of a naturall body and yet so they make him at one and the lame time at the table and vnder the shew of bread not by local but by substantiall presence not by maner of quantity or filling of a place and yet the same mā did saie before Art 5. fol. 130. b. Put laid Fide intelligamus situm in sacra illa mēsa agnum illū dei sunt verba magni Niceni Synodi ex Cut Tonstall lib. 1. de euchar fol. 40. Bellarm. de sacra
it pleased almighty God to send ease to his Church in making her chiefe enemies her dearest friends Then began Kings to be her nursing fathers Queenes to be her nursing mothers Then first called he Constantinus surnamed the Great to the knowledge of the truth Esay 49. v. 23. After the first 300. yeeres of a Pagan becōming a Christian putting downe Idololatry and erecting the true service of God Vnder him and his sonnes there liued the Romane Bishops Melchiades Silvester Marcus Iulius Liberius and Felix Strife about Felix Eccle 1. hier l. 4 c. 8. There is much strife in the church of Rome at this and Felix Strife about Felix Eccles hier l. 4. c. 8. There is much strife in the church of Rome at this day about this Felix some of them reakoning him for a Pope and some putting him out Albertus Pighius saith they that register him for a Pope bewray their own ignorance Bellarmine saith Bell. de Rom. pont li. 4. c. 9. fol. 509. their church worshippeth him as Pope and Martyr The strife betweene them two about Felix groweth about Liberius who was Pope next before him This Liberius in his banishment vnder Constantius the Emperour did subscribe to the Arrian heresy and so in his absence out of the Citty Felix was Pope in his roome Thus much doth Bellarmine cōnfesse of Liberius And because Pighius most impudētly denieth that he subscribed Chron. l. 3. fol. 574. Ammianus Marcellinus Comes So was Marcellinus martired yet he fell before They were wont to tell vs that Christ praied for Peter but nowe they tel vs he praied for the chaire he sitteth on Contra haer l. 1. c. 4. Defen Conc. Trid. li. 2. fol. 244. Fasc Tempor in liberio Platina in liberio Annot. Onuphrij Anast Bibl. in Lib. Feli. About the yere of our Lord. 370. A schisme at Rome between Damasus Vrsinus Polid. Verg. de inven rerū li. 5. c. 4. f. 401. Bellar. de cleric l. 1. c. 18. f. 92. Aug. epist 93. l. 2. ad Bonif. cont 2. epist Pelag. c. 4. therefore he shutteth out Felix from being Pope at all D. Genebrard cannot tel what to say directly on this Felix part First he telleth vs that Ammianus Marcellinus in his Chronicles did passe by him as suspected of heresie and Onuphrius one that wished as wel to the sea of Rome as wel might be maketh him a schismatike and an vnlawful Pope for Liberius over liued him obtained the place alone But other more truer saith he do report that he was Martired in a tumult by the Arrians And yet in the next words he saith that Felix was appointed by Acatius the disciple of Eusebius into the place of Liberius and held for an Arian But such was the force of the Chaire that it would rather hold a Martyr Pope than an heretike Pope or one that should favor the heretikes Thus farre Genebrard Alphousus a Castro maketh no question but that Liberius was an Arrian heretike Anà radius is content that we should cal him vnconstant faithlesse or vniust but in no case an heretike Fasciculus Temporū saith he was the first infamous Pope If you desire more of these two Popes Liberius and Felix read or cause to bee read vnto you Platina who wrote the liues of the Popes and Onuphrius annotations on him and Anastatius Bibliothecarius on the same argument set out by thēselues not aboue three yeeres since and you shal see diversity enough After those followed Damasus Siricius Anastasius Innocentius Sozimus Bonifacius Celestinus Sixtus 3. and Leo the great There was a schisme then in the Church of Rome betweene Damasus and one Vrsinus or Vrcisianus but Damasus obtained yet not without bloud Siricius was the first that in the west parts forbad priests to marry as Polidore Virgil alleadgeth out of Gratian whervnto Bellarmine is now fairely come That it is not forbidden by the law of God that Priests should marry Innocentius the first held and taught a dangerous errour that is That it is necessary to salvation for infants to receiue the cōmunion contrary to Saint Paules rule that none should receiue but those that are able to examine themselues and contrary to the doctrine of the Church of Rome vnder Pius quartus in the Tridentine counsell which accurseth those that thinke the Eucharist is to bee given to infantes before the yeares of discretion Sess 21. can 4. The bishops of Rome contended with the bishops of Aphrica for superiority Bonifacius 1. was the sonne of lucundus a Preist as saith Platina so was Felix 3 who immediatly followed sonne vnto Felix a Priest Leo epist 45. Fasciculus tēp Geneb in Chron. l 3. fol. 600. Eulatius against Bonifacius an 423. Gelasius was the sonne of a bishop called Valerius Plat. in vit eius The first 600. yeares Gelasius decreed in 2. maine points against them now Anastasius 2. an heretike so that the Apostolicall seate in one of these two must needs er In Sozimus Bonifacius Celestinus time there was much cōtrouersie between thē the Aphrican bishops touching appeales to Rome Sozimus began the claime and could not make it good he graced himselfe with warrant from the Nicene councell which beeing demanded no canon nor decree could be shewed The Aphricā bishops deny their appeales thither and so grew much turmoile But if all Churches in al cases were subiect to the sea of Rome iure diuino by Gods law as they would make vs beleeue now very simple was Sozimus to claime by the Canons of the councel of Nice and very forgetful of their duties were the Aphrican bishops who would put him to proue his authoritie by an humane invention when the high God had by his lawes subiected them vnto him before Leo the great yet was his authoritie so smal that hee could not remoue Abbat Eutiches from him but was forced to intreate the Empresse Pulcheria to vse her authoritie therin By this time there had bin fowre schismes in the church of Rome yet Genebrard acknowledged but three After Leo were Hillarius Simplicianus Felix 3. Gelasius Anastasius 2. Simmachus Hormisda Iohn 1. Felix 4. Bonifacius 2. Iohn 2. Agapetus Silverius Vigilius Pelagius Iohn 3. Benedictus Pelagius 2. Gregory the greate these reacheth downe to the first 600. yeares Amongst which Gelasius decreed that to minister the holy communiō in one kind is open sacriledge and againe he defined that the substance of bread and wine remaine after consecratiō both which are diametrally opposite to the doctrine of the new church of Rome Anastasius the second was an heretike as appeareth by the histories Wernerus saith he was the 2 infamous Pope he was a Nestorian heretike as before him his predecessor Liberius was an Arrian Vigilius vsed indirect means to attaine to the Popedōe Huius Vigilij ingressus parum legitimus suit cum praetet ecclesiasticas regulas praedecessore suo Silverio viuente Pōtificatus administratione