retaynid in a reformed Church saith Certe vt nulla est prorsus Christi Belial conuentio ita syncere Christiani nihil penitus ferre poterunt Antichristi Certaynlie as the are is vtterlie no agrement of Christ Belial so syncere Christians can abide nothing at all of Antichrist The examiner The fourth foundation or grounde that you lay is That you must needes cast away aÌ„d forsake all those thinges as haue ben brought into the Church besides or coÌ„trary to the Scripture This platte you enlarge with a dosen seuerall sentences all which paynes you myght well haue saued yf you had not mynded to hane ben bytyng and snappyng by the way at your superiours This trueth all faithfull Christians confirme with you That coÌ„cerning faith and doctrine concerning remission of sinnes and eternal saluation nothing ought to be taught or receyued which is contrary or not grounded in the Canonicall Scriptures 2. Tim. 3 For holy writ geuen by the inspiration of God is not only a lyght to our feete as Dauid saith Psal 119. but also so profitable that thereby the man of God maye be absolute being made perfecte vnto all good workes as Sainct Paule testifieth And though hit be most true touchyng the substance of Christian religion yet the maner and order of setting of it foorth is not particulary expressed 1. Cor. 14 but generally left to the disposition of Christes Churche from time to time accordiÌ„ng to those wordes of Saint Paule ¶ Let all thinges be donne comely and orderly wherein whatsoeuer shal be lawfully done to those purposes is not to be iudged beside the Scriptures The Aunsuuerer It wear follie to striue whith you in vaine wordes and malicious construing yow will nedes haue the victorie The scripture yow wil haue perfect onelie thouching substans of Christian religion The maner order of setting it forth is not particularie expressed But left generallie to the disposition of the church wee graunt but so that this disposition is barred in whith manye condicions that nothing superfluus or superstitious be brought in nothing offensiue be decreed all thinges be order lie and directlie apoyncted and that for edifing which condicions seing they want in your pretensed orders wee must nedes saye ar they beside the scripture The examiner As fro example Fasting is commaunded in Gods worde But what dayes we shoulde fast Aug. Epist 86 or what daâ—es we shoulde not being not there determined yf the Christian Churche decree it is not besydes the Scripture The ministring of Baptisme the Lordes super is commaunded in Gods worde But what dayes what tymes what places in what coÌ„panye with what prayers before and after yf the Christian Churche decree it is not besides the Scriptures And accordyng to this Sainct Augustine wryteth touching the receuyng of the Sacrament of the body bloud of Christ fasting in the mornyng Epist 118. Saluator ideo non praecepit quo dein ceps ordine sumeretur vt Apostolis per quos Ecclesias dispositurus erat seruaret hunc locum Our Sauiour therfore hath not coÌ„maunded in what order the Sacrament shoulde be afterwarde receyued because he myght reserue this place to his Apostoles by whom he woulde order the Churches Thus also the preachyng of the Go spell is commaunded in Gods worde but howe to do this office in Pulpit or otherwayes in morninglor after noone and so forth yf the Christian Churche decree it is not besides the scripture The lyke may be sayde concerning lawes politike of Princes affayres and traffike betwixt man man whose groundes and rules are in Gods worde and yet the particular circumstaunces in practising them beyng diuers in sundry Countreys according to the iudgement of magistrates are not besides scriptures when al those diuersities haue Gods worde for theyr generall rule and ende The aunsuerer So supersticion be awaye other condicioÌ„s obserued a lawe may be made off fasting prouided all wais that by no humaine constitution whichis besidethe word off god meÌ„s coÌ„scieÌ„cis be eÌ„taÌ„gled which werecoÌ„trarie to the word of god RemeÌ„bre what August writith of the fast of the Maniches which you maye se in the beginiÌ„g of this boke wherbie wee gather this general rule alwais iÌ„ this coÌ„trouersie to bemarkid that no Ceremonie is to be borowed of the aduersarie Homel pri ieun Iud And also coÌ„sidere the sayning of Chrysostome conserninge the fast of the Iewes Tel not me saith he they fast but shew me that they fast according to the will of god which if they do not then is their fast more wicked then anye dronkennes Likewise for ministriÌ„g the Sacraments order may be taken by the curch so it be most to edification according to the time place and compagnie Touching the tradicion of the Apostles that it is necessarie to receue the Communion ffasting if yow dare defend it by sainct Augustins authoritye yow maie wee suppose yow will not defend all the doctrine that was commonlie receiued in his time by him thaught much lesse all rites ceremonies To be short the scripture hath lefl nothing so free or in different to mans lawes but it must agree with those generalle condicions before rehersed such like The Examiner And blessed be God our times are here suche Deut. 24 that no man in our Churches presumeth to adde to Gods word as acknowledging the perfitnes therof to our saluation And that our gouernours in the feare of God Rom. 15 eschewe Saules disobedience and by righteous clemencie flee the tirannie of Reboam and through the direction of Gods spirite walke zelously in the pathes of Godly Ezechias in all those thinges whiche they finde wrytteÌ„ in the boke of godes lawe to appertayne to his true seruice aÌ„d worship not so much weyghiÌ„g the displeasures of worldly potentates as the curses that the most mightie God powreth vpon all suche as truely and sincerely regarde not his religioÌ„ and glory The Aunsuuerer Wee giue thankes to god for our good gouerners desiering him to encresse in them those god qualities which yow commend the perfect obediens of Dauid to hate the verie name of Idolls the righteous clemencie of Salamon to maintaine the godlie and punish the wicked the godlie zeale of Ezechias to breake the brasen serpeÌ„t and doe all thing accordiÌ„g to the precise rulees of godes word The examiner And blessed be the name of the Lorde for euer that hath stirred vp such Bishops and preachers among vs whiche neyther haue nor do flatter Princes to set vp their pleasures aboue the will and commaundement of God though some surmise the coÌ„trary As Audiani Epi. lib. 3 Tom prim certaine sectaries lay de to the Fathers charge of Nicaene couÌ„ sell that they tooke an order in the troublesome dissention for keping Easter day to please and flatter Constantine the Emperour whereas they did it vpon iust consideration and to auoyde scisme The aunsuuerer God be praysed for allgood Bishoppes and preachers
this your naturall Countrey for reading and cherishing matter agaynst their ouune suretie and against the state of Realme But trueth is to hye set for you to plulze her out of heauen to manyfestlye lznouuen eo be by your papers obscured and to surely stablished to drouune her in the myrie lalzes of your Sophisticall licorous uuritinges Houusoeuer ye embosse out your glorious stiles they be but Superuacaneae cōflictationes hominū mēte corruptorá 1. Tim. 6. quibus adēpta est veritas qui existimāt quaestū esse piet uuith the fore part of the text there expressed that is but superfluous brauulings of men peruerse in hart Psaal 2. 1. Tim. 3. from uuhom the truth is uuithdrauuen uuhich thinlz that lucre is godlynes c. Ye uuere best to understand Quod qui habitat in coelis c. irridebit omnes Ianes Mābres qui resistūt veritati homines mēte corrupti reprobi circa fidē sed nō proficiēt amplius siquidē amēt ia istorū euidēs erit omni bus quēadmodū il He uuiche is in heauen shal deride all Lannes Mambres uuhich resist the trueth men of corrupt mindes reprobate in the fayth but they shal preualye no longer for their madnes shal be utterly lznouuen to all men as theyrs uuas Ye shoulde do uuell to remember Quod Dominus est qui custodit veritatē Psal 145. 3. Ese 4. quod veritas magua est fortior prae omnibus veritas enim manet inualescit in aeternū viuit obt c. hat it is the Lorde uuhiche preserueth the trueth for the trueth is of great force and is stronger then all other thynges for ueritie uuill remayne uuill preualie for euer and uuyll lyue and hauo the uictory uuorlde uuithout ende Yt weare to be wished that the aduersares of trew religion had not causeto reioyse at these your ouersightes who being not many if men many bee measured by there iudgemēts do so boldye pronounce of the rest of your brethern that they are not of the syncere and lerned protestātes that thei trobell the church that they be contrefaits that yow shall litill ioye and vse us in the defence of the gospel against them that wee are like Iudas who yet god be praysed neuar fell from Christ with that traytor but iustlie depart frome yovv yet but in a Ceremony and that vvee are gone frome yovv for that belike vvee vveare neuar of yovv c. vvho are yovv that vve vvere neuar of yovv By the exemple of S. Paull vvee may say thus much for our selues yovv ar Christians so are vvee yovv are ministrs of Christ so are vvee yovv haue suffered for the Gospell of Christ so haue vvee That vvich yovv contend so much for vvhen yovv haue defendid it to the vnttermost is but the ordynaunce of man And vvill yovv saye that vvee are gone out of the church of god as heretikes Antichristians because vvee dissent from yovv in a tradition Thus in your heat to deface us yovv vvring and and racke S. Ihon. And as for the defence of religion God chosith his avvne chāpions as plesith him Other vvise it is neyther lerning nor vvisdom nor grauity but the lord Iesus vvith the breth of hs mouth that ouerhro vvith Antichrist And yet if yovv had the spirit of meake Moses yovv vvould reioice in the nōber of Prophets and if yovv vveare obedyēt to christ or had pitefull bowells toward the nedie people yow would pray the lord of the haruest to thrust out moe workmen into his haruest and not thrust anye out of yt for such tradicions But to drauue to and onde and to say some thing to these vpon uuhō this labour is bestouued uuho moste glori of this gaye boolze of theyrs I shall vvish them to haue a respect◠to their former callyng and profession of the Gospell And as loue of grace and trueth I trust dyd fyrst induce them so God graunt that they do not finally fight agaynst this grace receyued and uuylsullye peruerte the true sinceritie of the Gospell by treading not aright ouercome by humaine cogitations as uuas Peter for a tyme tyll Paulle dyd reprehende him Yf your dissimulation wear not to manifestest yow might easelie disceaue vs with your faire wordes ād sugered speach Euēnow wee wear Anabaptistes Libertines Iudasses and contēnid in the chirches yea such as were neuar belike of the Church now yow trust the loue of grace and truth did induce vs. Call yow this playne dealinge wee thanke god that he hath gyuen vs grace rather to sustayne such reproche at your handes and what so euar else lawes and magistrates shall lay vpō vs then to peruert the synceritie of the gospel by mynglyng of it with the leuen of Antichrist so may wee call them though the name be changed for it is wel known that changing of names changith not the thing As for example of Peters reprehension makith alltogether against yow for Petar offendid by dissimulacion and myngling the gospell with the leuen of the Iewes lawes wich thing either ignorantly yow omyt or else maliciuslie dissemble Trustyng that they uuyll so aduisedly expende the earnest counsell of these tvvo notable Fathers Maister Bucer ād maister Martir in this their purposed discussyng of the caase that they uuyll finally rest in quiet praysyng God in trueth and ueritie forsalzng errour couered uuith zelous persuuasion to the sauyng of theyr ouune soules to the reioyce of such Christians to uuhō they haue ben teachers as good subiectes ought to do to the glory of God To uuhom be all honour and donanion for euer Amen To the epistlles of Bucer and Martir wee aunsweare that what so euar semed to them tollerable for a tyme is not to be inforced as a perpetuall lawe Their epistls and censures to the contrary are to be shewd And euen in these epistlls wich vow bring they grant all the minors wich yow deny as in the table following doth apere Yow go far in iudgemēt Can yow make this controuersie a damnable errore and a matter of sauing and loosnig soul les so yow do pronouncing seuerlye against vs. God be to yow a more mercifull iudge The examiner AS you pretend in your preface that feare lest the Ministers of Gods worde shoulde be brougth into contempt was the cause of the vnoderly pubblishing of these your smalreasons So it is well knowen that the great care whiche the chiefe gouernours of this Churche of Englande taketh to preserue true and faythfull Ministers from dispite and reproche moued them to retayne and set forth these orders as whereby theyr hope is Gods diligent seruauntes accomplishing also other partes of their vocation myght recouer agayne the auncient dignitie of their forefathers and that Gods holy Worde Sacramentes nowe by the craft of Sathan somethyng basely esteemed myght also haue there due reuerence and honor herein they folowed the steppes of wyse Princes rnd good Fathers who thought it theyr
them in worke But because your fay rest colour is order and decencye may it plese yow also to here the censors of diuerse lerned fathers plainelie declaring that this your apparel is neyther orderlie nor comelie first Peter Martir 1. Sam. 14. hath these wordes handling the comon place of the ecclesiasticall lawes Esse tamen opertere aliqua quae faciant ad ordinem decoriÌ„â— docet Paulus ad Corint hic tamen ordo non est situs in magna pompa in vestibus in cantibus in campanarum organorum strepitu sed quae ad modèstiam grauitatem faciant qui remoueat lasciuiam confusionem barbariem Yet Paulto the CorinthiaÌ„s teachiht that soÌ„tiÌ„hgs must be had which serue for order and coÌ„lynes but yet that order is not placid in great poÌ„pe in garmeÌ„ts in singing in the no is of Bells Organes but such as makit to modestie and grauity which remouith wantonnes confusion and barbarusnes Caluin in the 4. boke Cap. 10. 29. diuision of his Inst writith thus Similiter ordinem non constituemus in nugatoriis itâ—is pompis quae nihil habent prater auandiem splendorem sed in ea compositione quaeomnem confusionem barbariem contumaciaÌ„ turbas omnes disciâ—iam tollat Likewise wee will not place order in these triflinge pompes wich haue nothing but a vanishing shewe but in the coÌ„position wich takith away all confusion barbarusnes stubburnes all troble and dissention Thus much for order now for comlynes Docter Rydlie callith them fowlish and to fond for a vice in a playe His felowe docter Tayler callith theÌ„ apish toyes Docter Poynet late bishop of winchest in his admonition to England liknith them to a porters weede of bill in sgate Lib 4 cap 18 〈…〉 29 Calum in his institutions Decorum ergo non uâ—cabimus in quo nihil praeter inane oblectamentum inerit quale exemplum uidemus in illo theatrico apparatu quo utuntur papistae in sacris ubi nihil quam inutilis elegantiae larua luxus sine fructu apparet Therfore wee shall not saye that comlines is wherin shal be nothiÌ„g but vain delectacioÌ„ne such as wee see in the playerlye like apparell which the papistes vse in their seruice where apperith nothing else but an vnprofitable visar of gaines And excesse with out fruit Peter Martyr vpon this texte Omnia ordine c. sed recte intelligenda est ea particula Decenter ne hoc decorum situm putemus in scricis uestimentis aureis argenteis vasis gemmatisque poculis nolarumstrepitu luminarium fulgore haec qui iactitant vt decentia in paralogismum incidunt quem Aristateles secundum quid ad simpliciter vocat decentia haec esse fatemur sed oculis corporis sen sui carnis muÌ„di iudicio que not poti ' abnegare debemus quaÌ„ sequi decorum quod in his requiritur constat mortificatione sanctitate modestia contemptu mundi potissimum edificatione But this worde decently muste be ryghtlie vnderstanded leste wee shoulde thinke that this comlines is placed in silke garmeÌ„tes godlen aÌ„d siluar vesseles cuppes sett wyth stones noyes of Bells and bryghtnes of Candelles These that bragg of these thinges as decent fall into A paralogisme which Arist calleth froÌ„ that which is after a sort to that which is simplie wee graunt that these thinges are decent but to the eies of the bodye to the sens of the flesh and iudgment of the worlde which wee ought raither to denie than to followe the comlines that is in these wordes required staÌ„dith in mortification hollines modestie contempt of the world and moste cheslie in aedification Petir Martir also vpon the 1. of the Iudges fol. 33. speking of popish apparell saith procedit sacrificulus ornatus prodigiosis uestibus The prest comith forth deked with monstrous apparell aÌ„d in the same place and leaffe Interponuntur etiam quidam imo permulti ritus peregrinisigna ridicula gestus quodammodo flulti uestes inusitatae Ther are added also Certayne yea many strang Ceremonies sygnes to be laughed at certayne gestures in a maner foolish and disguised garments Yf therfore fooles bables apish toyes porters wedes disguised garmentes playerlike apparell moÌ„strous apparell be indifferent orderly and comlie or els if in Church matters wee must seke to our bodilie eyes the sensis of the flesh and the iudgmeÌ„t of the world then may you goe forward with your conclusion but if not our disobeydiens as it pleaseth yow to terme yt shall not be the ouerthrowe of thousandes but the confirmacion and strenghning of multitudes in godes trueth As for enforming the people otherwise then wee haue taught them vnles yow be albe to shew vs that wee haue informed them with vntruthes your request cannot be eselye ybtained nor counsaell redylie followed to your prayer we say nothing but Amen sobeit The examiner Secondly You vvoulde haue vs thynke that the receyuyng of these orders doth not edisie because as you imagine the obstinate papiste shal be confirmed in his opinion This thyng is easyer and oftener saide of you then proued as yet For truelly this may be a meanes rather to wynne the aduersaries from theyr errours when they see vs without superstition or any necessitie turne those thinges to good vses which they fowly abused and heare vs condemne in open preachyng that which they set so much by And vppon this cause it seemeth the Apostles vsed long after Christes ascention the Ceremonies of Moises 1. Cor. 9. and that in the Temple to wynne to Christ the obstinate Iewes Note this place of â—ed eccl hist lib. 1 cap. 30. and expendle his reasons The histories Ecclesiasticall also haue diuers experiences howe much our auncient fathers increased Christes Churche by such godly pollicie Hence it was that they plucked not downe all the Iewy she Sinagoges and Heathnyshe Temples but turned them to the seruice of God that they altered theyr feast dayes Epi 154 that they chaunged their rites to Godlye purposes And that this myght be done it appeareth by S. Augustine to Publicola saying Cum uero ista uel in honorem ueri dei conuertuntur hoe de illis fit quod de ipsis hominibus cum ex sacrilegis et impiis in ueram religionem mutantur when these thinges be conuerted vnto the honour of the true God it is of them as it is of the parties them selues whan they were before committyng sacrilege and impietie nowe they be conuerted into true religious persons These fathers thought not theÌ„ selues in suche thynges vnder the commaundement which God gaue his people to practise in the land of Canaan therfore durst not with an heroical spirite destroy all that the Heathen had inuented before Dedoctr Christ lib 2 cap. 40. But dyd Vindicare tanquam ab iniustis possessoribus in usunt suum clarme to theyr owne ryght vse as it were from the iniust â—ossessours such like thinges as you talke of â—n this
these rits are nether clere liuelie nor albe to edifie ergo they ought not to be in the Church But it is yow that do his worthie bishope Iniury to helpe Harding his aduersarie with an auÌ„swere who for breking the bred in 3. peecis may auÌ„swere whatsoeuer yow aunswer or can aunswer for surplesis the one being as indifferent as the other But what this lernid Bishops iudgement is of all relickes of Papistrie maye apere in his aunswer to the fourth diuisioÌ„ in 4. page of the same Boke wher he yeldith fower resons why he refused to call it passione Sondaye not because he was ashamed of the passion but because it was taken of the papists to be called soe His wordes are these neither do wee refuse your fantasies because they be cat holike as yow surmise but because they be your own deuised by your selfe of late dais many of them contrary to gods holie worde are not catholike Now let all men iudge whether it be a greater matter to call passioÌ„ Sondaye then to weare the apparell that is vrged We are suar so to call it is of it selfe but a thing indifferent of small importauÌ„ce Thus ye se still how our rule out of Tertulian holdeth The examiner In the fourth and last place yow consider what shall happen to your selues yf you receiue these rites as you maye wel do with the rest of your brethren who fight in the lordes warfare a good fight hauing faith and a good conscience You shal be thought you saye to bring the people into Egipt againe The wearing of this apparell which as you often testifie is in his owne nature indifferent can not be likened to the bondage of Egipt whiche is slauerie to sinne errour and superstition The substaunce of popishe religion may well be compared to those cheynes for that many are sure tyed there with ignoraunce and blyndnes from the which you may still go forwarde to Gods prayse and your owne discharge by discrete and diligent teachyng to loose Gods people sitting in darkenes and in the shadowe of death as mani a godly man doth yet still folowyng the worthy examples of wyse preachers aforetime who in such like thinges contented them selues with the maner of the region where they preached Aug. Epi. 117. and neuer willed them to lay aside their Heathenis he apparell De ciui dei lib. 19 cap. 19. no more then almightie God commaunded his people to caste away from theÌ„ the Aegiptians clothes when he deliuered them thence and preached vnto them newe lawes and ordinaunces Exo. 12. Though Moyses suffered the people so redemed from captiuitie to vse the Aeigptians apparell yet no man thought that he woulde euer bring theÌ„ into Egipt againe Thus then by doctrine yf you labour still to pull some out of captiuitie and darknes 1. Tim. 4 and go before your flocke on that maner as S. Paul speaketh you should be a paterne in worde in coÌ„uersation in loue in spirite in faith and purenes you nede not to deeme of your selues worse then all godly men will iudge of you that is that you be workemen that nede not to be ashamed rightly diuiding the worde of God 2. Tim. 2 Mat. 24. aÌ„d geuyng Gods houshold meate in due seasonÌ„ You know howe you must instruct in meekenes an obedience all men 2. Tim. 2 prouing yf God at any tyme will geue them repentaunce Rom. 2. that they may vnderstande the trueth and that they may come to amendement out of the snares of the deuill And also you knowe 2. Pet. 2. that wherein you teache other men you must specially teache your selues so doyng you shall not leade your flocke to Egipt gaiane For they turne to Egypt Hebr. 6. who wallowe againe in the myre of their sinnes and errours who after they were once lightened and had tasted of the heaueÌ„ly gift and were made partakers of the holy ghost make a mocke of the sonne of God as it is wrytten to the Hebreues whose case is veâ—ie lamentable The aunsuuerer The bondag of Egypt is slauerie to superstition the substans of popish religion is the verie bondag superstitius ceremonies are the Cheins wherbie wee wer tyede to it Yow cauill vaynelie of the Egyptian garments none of the Israelites wer EgyptiaÌ„s priests that wore Idolatrus garments yovv say vvell that vvherein vvee teach other men vvee must teach our selues Wee teach other men to abhorre all popishe Ceremonies therfore wee must not Imbrace these onre selues Matth. Illirycus a lernid maÌ„ writing against Adiap horistas or indifferent men altogether agreing with vs and ouerthrowing yow callith the ceremonies garlike onnians of Egypt The examiner You haue taught you say as Tertullian did That nothing must be taken froÌ„ the Idoll-Tertullian in that place speaketh of that thing De corona milit whiche was first inuented A canditatis diaboli of the Deuils professours or of them that were meer Idolatours then he speaketh of that thing which was Dicatum ipsis a primordio dedicated to set foorth the worship done to idols froÌ„ the beginning which two conditioÌ„s you finde not in these matters nowe talked of For they were brought into the Churche by them that professed the same God and Christe that we do neither were they appointed to serue any sauiÌ„g the true God synce the coÌ„miÌ„g of the sonne of God And therfore you misreport this authoritie and such like Tertulian dissenteth very muche from your opinion in the wearyng of abused apparell as it appeareth where he handeleth somewhat this matter saying De idolol Fyrst the causes must be considered for the which a man doth any seruice or duetie Then he graunteth that the purple robe whiche was vsed of idolatrous priestes myght be worne De cor mil. if it where a token of byrth of kynne or of order Moreouer in that place whence you fetche your auctoritie he thynketh that somethynges inuented and abused of Idolatours may serue both to our vse and the seruice of God yf they haue any profite helpe or comfort for the lyfe of man as at large is there set out where he inueyeth sharpely against the Garlande being theÌ„ worne both of idolatours among Christian men without all kynde of commoditie also of the Idoll it selfe which was decked therwith Wherefore yf you had meant plainely you myght haue translated these wordes In habitu idoli in the habite of the idoll and not in the habite of an idolatour as you haue done The aunsuuerer Wee must thinke you handle the coÌ„trouersie with litle conscieÌ„s when yow wold wrest Tertulian out of our hands who most planielie directllie handlith oure verie caseâ— as Petir Martir in a maner confessith yow do not gretlie denie Wee saye that papists are the diuills professours that they first dedicated them to the seruice of theire Idolls for they neuer did good seruis in the Church of Christ Wee agree with Tertullian