himselfe from it without schisme and without straying from the Pathes of saluation but now the tymes are changed the circunstances we are in are others corruption hath so crept into the Romane Church that she is no more to be tearmed à Church and hence it was that you both could and ought to depart out of it But this euasion will not serue your turne for the Fathers did not dispute of the truth of the Churches doctrine and thence inferred that the Donatists were scismatikes because they were seperated from the Church who had the true doctrine though indeede it was true but they disputed about the Chaire of S. Peter of Pastorall authoritie brought downe from him by an uninterrupted succession concluding the Donatists Schismatikes because they were diuided from this Chaire and from S. Peters successours sitting in the same No otherwise then one would conuince subiects to be rebelles who should seperate themselues from the Royall throne and from the successour of the first Instituters of this Throne and as in the old law the Samaritans may be concluded to haue bene heretikes because they withdrew themselues from the Chaire of Moyses or Aaron That the Principle whence the Fathers drew their arguments was pastorall authoritie and the Chaire of S. Peter and not the truth of the doctrine it doth manifestly appeare in that S. Cyprians a De Gnitat Eccles Ep. 55â— citat reason is because the Chaire of Peter is the fundation vpon which the Church is built and from whence preistly vnitie takes its origine And that of Optatus b lib. 2. Cisat because in this onely Chaire of S. Peter the vnitie of the Church is conserued And S. Ireneus c lib. 3.5.3 cis son that Peters Chaire enioyes the cheifest power S. Hierome d Epist 57. cit becaus the Chaire of S. Peter is that upon which the Church is built And to conclude because S. Augustin e Contrae Epist fundam c. 4. Tenet me ab ipsa sede Petri Gsque ad praesentem EpiscopataÌ„ successio Sacerdotum saith that the succession of Preists which descended from the Chaire of S. Peter held him in the Catholike Church and that this f In Psal contra partem Donati ipsa est Petra quam non Ginâ—uÌ„t superbia inferorum portae succession is the Rocke against which the Gates of Hell shall not preuayle Nor will your reply be any more to your purpose to witt that albeit the Fathers did indeed argue as we say yet had their argument force and efficacie from the truth of the doctrine which then was adioyned to this authoritie to this Chaire seeing that the Donatistes and Nouatians against whom they disputed did directly deney the truth of the doctrine to be in the Roman Church The a Ambr. lib cont Nouatian Nouatians improuing hir doctrine touching remission of sinns and the b August l. de hare haeres 69. Donatists condemning her opinion of baptising heretikes and admitting the wicked liuers into the Church Which makes à cleare demonstration that the Fathers did not make the truth of the doctrine the Principle of their arguments because that was as doubtfull both to the Donatists and Nouatians as the conclusion it selfe which they were to deduce from it for they deneyed both the one and the other Wherfore S. Donatus doth sufficiently make appeare that he argued from their owne confessions and that which they could not deney to witt that the chaire of Rome was S. Peters chaire c Opt. lib. 2. contra Parmen titat Thou canst not deney vnto me saith he but that thou knowest that S. Peter was the first vpon whom in Rome the Episcopall chaire was conferred in which onely Chaire vnitie was to be obserued by all Furthermore you cannot affirme that they formed their argument from the truth of the doctrine because you doe not allow it to haue bene pure at that tyme which is manifest in that d Beza in Rom. 8. Witat l. 7. contra Durae scit 26. you doe condemne the doctrine of Pope Siricius touching celibate or imgle life as the doctrine of the diuell aÌ„d that yet the Donatists were reputed Schismatikes euen for seperating theÌ„selues from communion with him e Opt. l. 2. For the rest though to proue â man schismatique it were indeed necessarie to make good that he were seperated froÌ„ the Church as true Church yet should I not faile of my purpose being à most facile thing to conuince euen by the testimonies of your owne men that you accnowledge the Romane Church then to haue bene the true Church when you came out of it You accnowledge it both by the verie confession of a Caelu 4. instit c. 2. §. 11. 12. Epist 104. Du Plessis in the treatise of the Church c. 12. Osiander in Epito p. 2. your owne Authours and because b Du Plessis au trascté de l'Eglise chap. 81. Osiander loco citato you your selues deriue your authoritie from it whence it manifestly appeares thar you hold it to be true since otherwise you should deriue your power not from the Church of God but from à societie of the Diuell After all this there rests so litle for you to say that if your tongue would but faithfully interprete your conscience we should without doubt heare you condemne your selues the thing being so cleare and perspicuous that vnlesse you were more then blind or that seeing light you would not see it it were impossible but your soules casting the errour which they row professe should win their cause For if the Nouatians and Donatists vere by the Fathers sufficiently conuinced of schisme for that they were seperated from the Chaire of S. Peter and his successours therin you are also conuinced by the same argument since you are seperated from vs who haue alwayes keept the possession of the same Chaire without interruption of succession Your are certainly coÌ„uinced I speake to all your church and to you Ministers in particular who are not onely Schismatikes as are your flocke but withall Schismaticall Pastours for of your owne authoritie you haue established your selues Pastours not hauing receaued power froÌ„ those whose successours you should be Whence it followes that you are a Opt. l. 2. de â—ictore primo Episcopo DonatistaruÌ„ erat Filius sine Patre tyro sine Principe discipulus sine Magistro sequens sino antecedente Children without Fathers soldiers without Captaines successours without Predecessours Wherupon you shall giue meleaue to say vnto you with the Fathers b Tertul de praescript c. 32. Edant ergo Origines Ecclesiarum suaruÌ„ euoluant ordinem Episcoporum suorum c. Opt. l. 2. cont Parm. Vestrae Catbedrae Gos originem reddite c. Shew vs the origin of your chaire nor returne vs barely for answere that you are extraordinarily sent but bring à place of scripture to verifie your assertion You are obliged to produce such
It is the part of a subiect to serue without voyceing his seruices leauing the accnowlekgment and publishing therof to the Prince If the Prince come short of our iust expectation yet hath a man no actioÌ„ of coÌ„plaint against him If a man coÌ„playne he is blameworthy and coÌ„sequently much more if he complaine while he hath cause to commend The Reader shall iudge whether those that haue bene admitted by their kings to establish a new Chaire in a state to erect a new ministrie who ly coÌ„trarie to that which they accnow ledge to be the tiue Ministrie of the Almightie who haue full libertie to make profession of a Belief directly opposite to theirs who are admitted to offices dignities and estates who by the benefit of the kings bountie inioy no smale number of townes and Castles for their safetie though all the rest of the French doe absolutely relie vpon his faith the true and sole Refuge of subiectes finally if those who haue large pensions who receaue grate benefits in whose fauour verie aduantagious Edicts are made and inuiolably kept the Reader I say shall iudge whether such people haue cause to complaine of their kings and tacitly to accuse them of ingratitude while they declare them selues loaden with iniuries for reward of their seruices If the Anabaptists had afforded as much assistance to some one of your Princes for the recouerie of his Estats as you pretend to haue afforded to Henry the Great would you counsell him to permit them more libertie then you inioy in France Or inioying so much would you admitt of their complaintes for that they did not iaioy equall libertie with you To conclude I appeale to your owne coÌ„sciences not onely whether all the Princes which professe your beleife but whether euen any of theÌ„ doe so treate curs in their States no I will demande yet lesse I aske not whether ours receaue benefits whether they beare offices whether they be preferred to any degree of honour it is too much I will yet fall lower and onely aske if they haue libertie giuen to professe our religion not openly but euen in secrete with assurance of their life Bezae Epist 4. Non dubitamus Magistratus optimoiure in praefatos Anahaptistas gladiuÌ„ strinxisse Bezade haeret puniend lib. integro Idem Epist. 1. est hee merè diabolicum dogma sinendum esse vnuÌ„quemque vt si voler pereat After you shall haue wellpondered the question which I haue put vnto you you will be able to returne me no other answere saue onely that some grace they receaue in such States to witt that of Martirdome which we doe most highly prise And indeede your authours doe teach that Heretiques are to be bainshed and punished and that libertie of conscience is diabolicall whence you doe prohibite it vs in all places wher you haue power While yet there is a faire differeÌ„ce betwixt your conditioÌ„ and ours you are Nouellists and consequently they whose possession you impeach might iustly haue hindred the exercise of your new beleife Luther and your owne Authours teaching Luth in 1. ad Galat. Luth. â—puâ— S. eâ—d l. 5. that so it ought to be done and practising accordingly Vve are possessours possessing a doctrine which the Apostles left vs by an vninterrupted transmission from hand to hand and therfore we cannot be lawfully repelled vnlesse we be first condemned by a generall Councell which is so far from euer hauing bene done that euen the Princes which imbrace your religion haue not yet condemned vs with any show of iustice since we haue neuer yet bene heard herin you vse their cunning who hauing giuen occasion of complainte complaine first Colloque de Poissy Conference de Fontainebelleau making show of aggreeuance in the same thinge although indeed this libertie is not denyed you and we are exceeding glad that it is giuen you knowing well that as many combats as we fight shall be as many Lawrells for vs and victories for the Church And desireing nothing more then by diligently obseruing the Edicts made in your fauour to meete with the occasions wherin we may bring a way to the aduantage of Truth new spoyles ouer your errours CHAP. III. Section I. MINISTERS FOr if this vvere permitted vs vve vvould make him clearely see that our religion is hated because it admitts no other rule of saluation then the vvord of God contayned in holy vvritt nor other head of the vniuersall Church then our Sauiour Iesus-Christ nor other Purgatorie for our sinnes then his bloode nor other sacryfice propitiatorie for our sinnes then his death and passion nor other merite before God then his obedience offered vp for vs to his beauenly father ANSWERE THe first thing which we are to marke in this point is the Art by which you vse to gaine mens harts and to alienate them from the Catholike Church in which we liue You represent your beleife hated for many reasons by which notwithstanding you pretend to make it commendable before God and man You will haue it to be hated for sustayning in points controuerted betweene vs that which makes most to Gods honour and for condemning in our Faith that which you hold vnworthy of his perfection In this you imitate the old Heresiarkes who opposed the principall points of Catholike religion vnder pretext of conseruing Gods honour more intire For this reason the Schismatikes as S. Cyprian deliuers Apud Cyprian ep 55. Hilar. l. 2. de Trinit solicite nimium ne patrem filius ab eo natus euacuet Marc. 2. Quis potest demittere peccata niss solus Deus Matthae 9. vnder collour of exalting God his mercy communicated with the christians who had sacrificed to Idolls before they had shewed a lawfull repentance For the same cause the Arians as we reade in S. Hilarie denyed that the sonne was consubstantiall with the Father least the dignitie of the Father might haue bene exhausted by this honour of the sonne For the same the Iewes would not haue Christ to haue power to absolue from sinne rendring that honour to God that it might be reserued to him alone For the same as we find in S. a Amb. l. 1. de poenit cap. 2. Aiunt Nouatiani se Domino deferre reueremiaÌ„ cui solt remittendorum criminum potestateÌ„ resernent Ambroise the Nouatians denyed that the Church had the same power For the same saith S. b August l. 32. contr Faust Quiae ta ia ibi sunt quae Christa gloriam decolorent Augustine the Manichies denyed certaine bookes of the scripture which they said contayned thinges which stayned the luster of the glorie of Iesus Christ To be short diuers others tooke this colourable cloake yet were they all condemned by the Fathers and most iustly because God in the establishing of christian Religion did not search that which was most honorable vnto him selfe especially in our iudgement but that which was most profitable vnto vs as we see planely in these words
c Philip. 2. v 7. he did for vs exinaniee himselfe taking the forme of a seruant That of the greater or lesse honour which doth accrue vnto God is but a bad way to establish one article of Faith and destroy another Vvher vpon d Hil. l. 1. de Trinit Religiese impius l. 4. irreisgiosam de Deo selt â—tudinem S. Hilarie tearmes the Arians who vse that way of proceeding Religiously vvicked people who doe irreligiously serue God Other grounds are necessaire Vve must know what the Church teacheth vs and those that are so carefull of Gods honour ought to be verie carefull to be in structed in it least they iniure him in deedes whom they honour in words which they doe in expressing things otherwise then they are indeede it being certaine as saith a Cassian l. 1. de Incarnat Quod non dicitur it ae vt est etiamsi honor videatur contumelia est Cassian disciple of S. Chrysostome that that vvhich is not exprest as it is though it seeme honourable is indeede a true contumelie That which is true be it of what kinde it will honours God because he would haue it so and that all his wills are to his owne aduantage But what is false though in apparance aduantagious turnes to disaduantage And though many things beare no proportion with the greatnes of the Almightie yet haue they connection with the infinite perfectioÌ„ of his loue and Charitie which appeares somuch the more perfect and accomphished by how much in vertue therof he descends to things more lowe and abiect And therfore it is an abuse to alledge gods honour to dazle and blinde the people Yet this you doe while you represent your Religion hated for fiue points which you esteeme honorable for him as being honorable in your opinion to Iesus Christ which is but yet so in apparance onely Hereupon I am forced to tell you with a Tertul. l. de pudic c. 2. talia tantae sparsilia eoruÌ„ quious Deo adulentur sibi lenocinantur effoeminantia magis quam vigoraÌ„tia disciplinaÌ„ Tertullian that those litle shiftes by vvhich you become flatterers of God and your selues doe rather vveaken then strengthen discipline So considering Religion in the shape you represent it me thinks I see not a chaste wife but a strumpet set out with sundrie adulterate colours to seduce the world and kill you come from you and become mistresse of your life which moues me to the end I may deliuer the people from errour to vndertake to wash her face vnmaske her and discouer her deformitie following the example and foot stepps of the Prophete who speaking of an Idolatrous b Nahu 3. Propter mu. titudinem fornicationuÌ„ meretricis speciosa gratae habeutis maleficiae quae veÌ„didit gentes in fornicationibus suis faemiliaes in maeleficiis suis Reuelabo pudenda tua in facie tua ostendam gentibus nuditaetem tuam regnis ignominiam tuam nation vseth these words For the abundance of the fornications of a faire charmeing and mischieuous strumpet vvho hath sold nations in her formcations families in her diuelish prankes I vvil discouer thy shame in thy face and vvill shevv thy nakednes to all nations and thy ignominie to kingdomes Which I will doe so much the more willingly because I haue learnt of b Concil in psal 36. Tanto magis debemus commemorare vanitatem haereticorum quanto magis quaerimus salutem eorum S. Augustine that by how much more we desire the saluation of Heretikes by so much more we ought to indeuour to make the vanitie of their errour appeare SECTION II. VVe vvould make it clearely appeare vnto him that our religion is hated because it admitts no other rule of saluation then the vvord of God contayned in holy scripture ANSWERE IT is false that your Religion is hated for that it admitts no other rule of saluation then the scripture but true it is that it is worthy of hatred for the diuers abuses which it committs in Scripture That we teach no other rule of saluation then scripture will be manifest to any that knowes that these words an other rule doe importe in proper speach a Rule of a diuers kind as I will hereafter proue in the ensuing Section and withall an intire rule as I will presently make appeare following your owne tenets who will not admitte the Ghospell of S. Mathew to be an other rule then that of S. Marke considering they are but two parts of the same Rule and that this word rule simply taken signifies a compleate rule for as S. Basile saith a Rule admitts no addition but things that are imperfect are neuer rightly instiled by the name of Rule Now we nether admitt Rule of any other king then the scripture nor yet any compleate rule other then it yea we call it the compleate rule of our saluation for two reason both because it contaynes immediatly and formally the substance of our Faith all the articles necessarie necessitate Medij for mans saluation and also because it doth mediately comprehend all that we are to beleeue in that it doth remitt vs to the Church to learne the same which it assures vs is infallible Hence it followes that we draw that truth out of the scriptures which we receaue by the mouth of the Church if reason may preuayle which teacheth that whoso euer deputes another to speake for him speakes mediatly by his mouth and if a Aug. lib. 1. cont Cresco c. 33. Quamuis huius rei certè de scripturis Catholicis non proferatur exemplum earundem tameÌ„ scripturarum etiam in hacre à nobis tenetur veritas cum hoc facimus quod vniuersae placuit Ecclesiae quam ipsarum scripturarum commeÌ„dat authoritas Etsimi lia lib. de vnit Eccles c. 22. S. Augustine who deliuers it in expresse termes may gaine beleife Albeit saith he one can produce no example of scripture concerning this matter yet hold vve in it the truth of the same scripture since vve doe that vvhich is conformable to the vniuersall Church vvhom the authoritie of the selfe same scripture doth commend vnto vs. Behold in what esteeme the Scripture is with vs for which cause we also are to be esteemed Now we will see whether by reason of it you deserue not hatred though not in that sense in which you say you are hated for it But before we come to that point permit me I beseech you to extenuate a litle the glorie you hunt after in establishing the Scripture the onely rule of your saluation by making you share it onely with diuers Here tikes who before your tyme sustayned the same opinion So said the Manichies I can in no sorte saith Fortunatus in a Aug. l. cont Fortunatum Nullo genere rectè me credere ostendere pessum nisieaÌ„dem sideÌ„ scripturarum authoritate firmauerim S. Augustine make appeare that I rightly beleeue vnlesse I confirme my Faith
owne direction and also because your versions not being authenticall as you confesse the Scripture which you vse can be no sufficient rule of saluation euen to the learned That the Church is the true Guide if saint Augustine be beleeued whom a Luther in defensio verbo Caenae Meosaneiudicio post Apostolos Ecclesia now habuit meliorem Augustino Calu. 3. Instit cap. 3. §. 10. Ex Augustino sumant lectores si quid de sensu antiquitatis certi habere volunt you accnowledge to be a faithfull witnes of antiquitie it is a cleare case b August epist 16. Ait rectissimā discipli namesseveimperiti nitātur authoritate Ecclesia It is a most orderly discipline saith this great light that the ignorant should rely vpon the authoritie of the Church There is nothing so behouffull for a soule as to obey a Cone 2. in Psalm 70. Nihil tamexpedit anima quam obedire he adds in another place b Contra Eplani fundam cap. 5. Egovero Euangelio nen crederem nisime Catholicae Ecclesia commoueret authoritas .... qua infirmatae iamnec Euangelio credere potero And againe I would not leleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authoritie of the Catholike Church did moue me thervnto and after that which authoritie being thaken I should not giue credit to the Gospell where it is manifest that he speakes of himselfe as a Catholike not as a Manikie These words doe make a cleare demonstration that the Church is the true guide of the faithfull nor indeede can it be called in question if we consider that the holy Ghost declared it the pillar and strength of truth that the Fathers c August contra Epistolam fundam c. 5. Epist 118. l. De vtilitate cred c. 15. altbi passim Iren. l. 3. c. 3. 4. Hieron contra Luciferi doe accnowledge it to be infallible and that d Calu. 4. Instit c. 1. §. 10. Neque enim parui momentiest quod vxcatur columna fundamentum veritatis domus Dei quibies verbis significat Paulus ne intercidat veritas Deiin mundo Ecclesiam esse fidem eius custodem Etc. 2. §. 2. Verè Ecclesia columna est ac firmamentum veritatis Vvhitak cont 2. q. 4. c. 1. Nos dicinsus eam quae est Christi Ecclesia In absolute necessariis non posse errare Id. contra 1. quaest 3. c. 5 7. Fateor nos haraticos cogi conuinciposse authoritate Ecclesia necasio argumento externo validius ac fortius premi hareticos yours also allow it to be such in points necessarie to saluation And who would now say that a child were not to heare and follow the documents of a mother most louing to her children and who in things concerning their saluation can teach them nothing but truth Vve are bound to heare the Church I will shortly bring your owne Authours to make it good Now let vs examine whether as I haue said you doe not impose vpon vs. You doe openly impose vpon vs while you make your followers beleeue that we make a generall prohibition of the scripture as being a dangerous booke It is true we are not of those wherof a Tertul. Prascript c. 41. Omnes tumēt omnes scientiā pollicētur ipsa mulieres haveticae audent docere contendere c. Tertullian speaketh they are all puffed vp with pride they all promis knowledge yea the verie hercticall Women dare vndertake to teach and dispute Vve are not of that sort of people of whom b Traet 47 in Iean Nihil sic amant isti ac scientiam promittere sidem rerum verarum quas parunls crede we pracipiuntur velut imperitiam deridera saint Augustine affirmes that they are taken with nothing so much as to promis knowledge and laugh at the beleife of true things which the children were taught to beleeue as though it had bene a meere ignorance Vve haue no affinitie with Pelagius who will haue women to reade Scripture as a Hieron dial 1. contr Pelag. saint Hierome doth note and condamne him for it Vve are not of your humour who iudge the scripture so easie to be vnderstode that you make no difficultie to command all the world to reade it In a word we cannot allow of your wayes in making Idiots ignorant persons and women their owne Doctors and Prophetes Yet is it false to affirme that we prohibite the scripture as a perilous booke we doe not so far forgett the respect which we owe to the spirit that did dictate it nor disaccnowledge the happines and truth which it proposeth vnto vs. Marrie we doe boldly affirme that the Scripture such as you propose it that is changed or taken according to the letter without giuing its true sense the knowledge wherof depends vpon the Church her declaration is dangerous for those who ether by ignorance vanitie or malice would rashly make vse of it And in this we doe nothing to which we are not moued by the Scripture the Fathers and your owne men By the Scripture a 2. Corin 3. Litera occidit 2. per 3. Quae indocti instabiles deprauant ad suam ipscrum perditionem saying in expresse termes that the letter doth kill and that the vnlearned doe depraue it to their owne perdition By the Fathers b Lib. de resurrect carn c. 40. Haereses esse non perpe vam scriptura intelligi possent Hilarius l. 2. de Trinit Vigiltus Martyr l. 2. contr Eutych Tertullian saying that there could be no heresies at all if the Scripture could not be ill vnderstoode and saint Hilatie shewing by sundrie examples that they sprung from the false interpretation of the scripture By your owne Luther confessing that the scripture is the Heretiques booke If it be commendable in a carefull mother to take the knife out of her childs hands with which through want of yeares and discretion he might hurt himselfe and to giue it to one of more ripnes to vse you ought rather to prayse then blame vs sithens we prohibite the Scripture in a vulgaire tongue to some that might abuse it and permit it to such as may reape commoditie by it That we permitt it to some it is apparent by the verie confessions of a Vvhit controu 1. q. 2. c. 13. Papista hac in re certam exceptionem rationemque temporum locorum personarum haberi volunt Item Status quaestionis huiusmodiest vtrum vernacule versiones scripturarum sint omnibus promiscuè praponendae permittendae vel non illinegant nos affirmamus your owne men who doe accnowledge that in this we make exception of persons tymes and places and that the question berwixt you and vs is not whether any can reade them or not but whether we doe indifferently permitt all to reade them or no which we affirme saith whitakere and they meaning Catholikes deney that it ought to be done The exception which we make of
the fift part of your subiects to witt the Church men who hold not themselues to belyable to the lawes of your Court yea for their temporallities they haue another whom they accnowledge soueraigne out of your kingdome To which adde that which the Pope pretends and that which he hath alreadie practised yea euen in our tyme to witt that he hath authoritie to depriue your Ma. of life and crowne what remaynes dread souueraigne but that your kingdome is held in homage to the Pope and that you liue and raigne at his discretion onely ANSWERE It is an old trike of craft when one is guiltie of à fault to put it vpon another Yet I stand astonishd to thinke how you dare make vse of if it against the whole Clergie of this kingdome whom you striue to make the king suspect accusing them of faction wherof they are wholy innocent and you generally knowen to be stickers in The nature of your Ministerie deptines you of credit in point of accusing priests for S. Augustine a Hareticorum accusationes coÌ„tra Catholicum prebyterum admittere nec possumâ—â— nec debemm doth teach vs that your accusations nether ought to be nether indeed can be admitted and that it is the trike of heretikes b Aug. Epist 137. Hoeretici non hahendo quod in causa sua defensionis defendant non nisi hominuÌ„ crimina colligere affectant ea ipsa plurafalsissime iactant vt quia ipsam diuine scripturae veritatem qua vbique diffusa Christi Ecclesia commendatur crimiuari obscurate non possunt homines per ques pradicatur adducant in odium de quibâ—â— fingere quitquid in mentem Generit possunt when they haue nothing to say to defende them selues in point of their diuision from the Catholike Church to make à list of meÌ„s faults and following their owne fancie falsly to inlarge them selues thervpon to bring them into hatred who teach the truth which they are notable to find faultie or to obscure Hauing alreadie sufficiently manifested in what manner you susteyned the dignitie of this crowne and how litle occasion you had to draw pride or vanitie from it I will onely obserue in this place that you doe too too far swarue from truth and modestie in saying that you are ill vsed in this kingdome and by assuring yourselues that if you were not hated and hardly treated for maintayning the dignitie therof you should for euer after be exeÌ„pt from all hatted and hard vsage To what purpose did you taxe the two first Orders of State accusing the one of factioÌ„ the other of weaknes preiudiciall to the kings Maiestie but to let the world see that when you beare à splene against any one wtih à wonderfull boldnes you faigne faults to diffame him though withont all fundation for none can beignorant but that if there were any faction it gott entrie by their meanes who out of tyme aÌ„d seasoÌ„ would needs moue à question wherof the Church Nobilitie and the greater part of the three states striue to stoppe the course moued therto by diuers reasons which in à few wonds I will deduce First because the questioÌ„ being meerly spirituall whether God had giueÌ„ power to the Church to depose kings in cases of heresie and in fidelitie when they doe not onely make profession of them but doe also shew theÌ„ selues persequutours of the name of Christ aÌ„d the true faith as also whether this power did aggree with the word of God or no finall whether it were lawfull to vrge all the people to take an oath wherby they should affirme that it was not according to Gods word which being handled in the assemblie a body composed of lay-persons could not intermeddle in it without sacriledge without intrenching vpon the liberties of others mounting into Moyses his chaire laying hand vpon the incensoir and consequently without exposing themselues to the desasters which are wont to follow such impious and sacrilegious enterprises Nay euen the Clergie it selfe of a particular Church as of the Church of France could not decide this point since it belongs to the vniuersall Church onely to define Articles of Faith Secondly because all the kings and states in Christendome hauing interest in this cause one onely kingdome could not iudge of it without the appouall and authoritie of all the rest Thirdly because the holy Sea being interressed in this matter your adherents who haue sworne its destruction and who esteeme the ruine therof their establishment could not be held impattiall iudges though some of them indeuoured to deale in it Fourthly because out of the definition which you aymed at there followed a most euident schisme by establishing an article of faith particular to the Churches of France not Catholike or common to the vniuersall Church whence there followed a diuision in faith Lastly because the decision of this question was not onely of no effect to the health and securitie of kings which was yet the sole end of the question but was euen preiudiciall vnto them as may be seene by that which that great Cardinall and honour of his age wrote vpon that subiect who doth most amply handle this matter with eloquence equall to the profunditie of learning which all the world admires in him These reasons being coÌ„sidered without passion will leaue no doubt in any man but that the Clergie-men were worthy of praise not of blame for refusing to decide a question which was proposed vnto them to a bad end nor did the decision therof belong vnto them And therfore it carries no colour but is quite contrarie to truth to accuse them of faction adding that they and a part of the nobilitie made the king loose his cause For how doe you not blush for shame to affirme this since it is notorious to the word that in all the articles of the Clergie and nobilitie there was no proposition made much lesse any determination of any thing that tends in any the least measure to the diminution of the soueraigne power of our kings and the dignitie of their crowne and that the article presented by the aduise of some of the third order was onely reiected without euer deliberating vpon the contents therof it is a grosse impertinence to say that we caused the king to loose a cause where no iudgment was past and to make his Maiestie a partie in a cause where he onely interposed himselfe by his authoritie to conserue things in the same state in which they stoode If any were cast in their cause it is you who vnder pretext of maintayning the authoritie of kings would haue brought inn a schisme amongst Catholikes As for the letters which the Pope wrote vpon this matter if it be a fault in a father to write to his children to receaue their fathers letters his holines is blame-worthy to haue done that honour to the two orders wherof we speake and they culpable in receauing them Marrie seeing common sense doth teach vs that there
take not vpon thee to iudge the commands of thy betters Finally so b Greg. l. 2. c. 4. in 1. Regum Vera obedientia nec Praepositorum intentionem discutit nec praecepta discernit quia qui omne vitae suae iudicium maiori subdidit in hoc solo gaudet si quod sibi praecipitur operatur Nescit enim iudicare quisquis perfeclè didiceris obedire sainc Gregorie in these tearmes That true obedience doth nether examine the intention of Superiours nor discerne their commands because he that hath submitted all the iudgement of his whole life to one greater then himselfe hath no fairer way then to execute what he is commanded and he that hath learnt perfect obedience knowes not how to iudge Therfore the Iesuites are not to be blamed for making and obseruing a vowe which the Fathers of the primitiue Church doe not onely approue but euen ordayne as a thing necessarie for religious people You say further that they promis this blind obedience to a Generall who is alwayes subiect to the king of Spayne If you had informed your selues well of the truth of the busines you had learnt that it is false that their Generalls are ought to be or were alwayes such for euen Father Vitelesque who at this present is deseruedly possessed of that charge is a Romane borne and the last before him who lately deceased was a Liegois Next you vpbraid them with the Decrees which were made against them but it is sufficient that they were restored and established by the Edict of Henry the Great approued by all the Courts of Parlement in France Vvhich doth sufficiently iustifie the zeale of this order towards kings the affection therof towards the state and the profite which youthes reape of the care they take to instruct them Concerning their doctrine in point of power which they attribute to Popes ouer kinges you had spoken otherwise and more to the purpose if insteed of gathering it out of the writings of some particular men you had receaued it from the mouth of their Generall who in the yeare 1610. made a publike declaration wherby he doth not onely improue and disallow but absolutly prohibite those of his Order vnder most greeuous paines to maintayne vpon what pretext of tyrannie soeuer that it is lawfull to attempt vpon the persons of kings and Princes As touching the secrete of confession I haue not yet vnderstood that they hold any other opinion then that which the vniuersall Church holdeth But it is no wonder since you quarrell with the Sacrament that you imploy all your craft to make this become odious therby to hinder them whom you hold your enemyes because you are the enemyes of Gods Church from hauing accesse to kings persons and from the knowledge of secretes of their consciences wherat you ayme as the last words of your paragrafe doe testifie As for the Equiuocations which you say they vse and teach others to vse before their Iudges I referre you to the Answeres which they so often haue returned you vpon this subiect it shall suffice me onely to shew that blaming equiuocation in in them you practise it your selues nay euen most manifest lyes in matter of faith Vvicklef In the 2. booke on the life of â—videf by whom your french Martyrologe saith it pleased God to awake the world which was buried in the dreame of humane traditions being demanded an accompt of his faith did not he and his vse tergiuersations if we may credit your said Martyrologe who speakes of them in these words Striuing onely to find out tergiuersations and friuolous excuses therby to escape through ambiguitie of words Did not your Augustana Confessio vse equiuocation when it said Cap de Missa Our Churches were falsly accused of abolishing Masse for we doe yet retayne Masse and celebrate it with greatest reuerence Did not Melancton vse equiuocation Apud Hospiman part 2. hister an 25 41. when he did confesse that he and his had made the Articles at Asbroug ambiguous and easie to be turned To what end doth he say that the Articles made at Asbroug were to be changed and to be suted to occasions if he condemne equiuocation They framed ambiguous and guilefull formes of Transsubstantiation saith Caluine Epist 12. speaking of him and Bucere He indeuoured saith Chauaterus to setle a certaine concorde in an ambiguous kind of speach An. 1538. meaning Bucere Vve haue met with a confessing aduersarie For he himselfe teacheth vpon Erasmus that it is lawfull in the affaires of the Gospell to vse colours and clockes Bucere therfore and his fellowes when they grant to Luthere that the body of Christ is truly and substantially in the Eucharist and also that the vnworthy doe receaue it doe they not without compulsion for their owne pleasure yea and euen in matter of faith vse tergiuersatioÌ„s and equiuocations Doth not the same say that the Zuinglians differe from Luther though indeede it is false but in words onely Hospinian part 1. hist Sacram. Doth not Luther vpon this occasion tearme him a sower of words as saith Hospiniane 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Doe not the same Hospiniane and Simblerus swethish authours relate that Martir did vse for a tyme obscure and ambiguous words in the matter of the last supper In a word your Authouâ—s confesse that your inuisible Church for the space of many ages did professe our religion though with hart and mouth they beleeued yours which they could not doe not onely not without equiuocation but euen not without denying God And yet where is any of ours who doth not accnowledge that he is rather a thousand tymes to dy then to vse equiuacatioÌ„ in matter of Faith or to deny him not onely in hart but euen in word whom we are bound to confesse with both Touching their bookes if cortaine particular men composed any which were burnt what need you to stirre in their ashes Doe not the same Decrees which adiudged them to the fire iudge many of yours worthy of the same flames since they handle the same argument The picture which you mention cannot any way aduantage you since you and they aggree not in the fact for they sustayne that he whom you esteeme conuicted of a conspiracie against his king is wholy innocent of the fact and hold that he dyed for the sole defence of the Catholike religion Vvhence in comes to passe that if there be any errour in this it is errour of fact de facto not of right non de iure of Fact as beleeuing he dyed for his vertue not for his vice not of right as though they sustayned that it were lawfull to murther kings and that to suffer death for that cause were martirdome Now to conclud this Chapter it onely remaynes that we beseech God to shewre downe vpon you the waters of the fountaines of his Grace because being the nature of calumnie to obscure and blacken its owne authours not him
The Emperour Basilius doth also intimate this when speaking to the layetie c In 8. Syn. nullo modo vobis licet de Ecclesiasticis causis sermonem mouere haec inuestig are quaerere Paetriarcharum Pontificum SacerdotuÌ„ est qui regiminis officium sortiti sunt Ecclesiastic as adepti sunt claues non nostrum qui pasci debemus c. he saith It is no way lawfull for you to medle with Ecclesiasticall causes to sound and examine them belongs to Patriarkes Bishopes priests who haue the gouerment and keyes of the Church It appertaynes not to vs who are to be fedd to be sanctified to be bound vnbound Of the same sense was Constantine in the Councell of Nice Gratiane in the Coun of Aquilea Theodosius the younger in the Ephesine Councell and diuers other Emperours in many other places In contemplation wherof a Lib. 5. epist 25. Scimus piisamos Dominus Sarerdoâ—â—â—tòus negottis non se immiscere S. Gregorie saith we know that our most pious Lords doe not meddle in the affaires of preists And that the Princes if they had any such pretention were not well grounded S. b Epist adsolit â—iâ—aÌ„ agentes Quandoae conatio aeuo anditum est quod indicium Ecclesiae authoritateÌ„ suaÌ„ ab Imperatore accepit Plurima antea Synodi fucre multa iudicia Eecâ—esiae habitae sunt sed neque Patres isliusmodires principi persuadere conati sunt nec Princeps se in Ecclesiasticis causis curiosum praebuit Athanasius doth witnesse Vvas it euer heard saith he from the creation of the world that the iudgment of the Church had authoritie from the Emperour Many Councells haue bene celebrated the Church hath often past her iudgment but nether would the Fathers persuade the Prince to any such thing nor did the Prince shew himselfe curious in causes of the Clergie and a litle after c Quis videns eum in decernendo principeÌ„ se facere EpiscoporuÌ„ praesidere iudiciis Ecclesiasticis â—â—on merito di â—at eum illam ipsam desolaetioneÌ„ esse quae a Daniele praedicta est who is he that seeing him he speakes of Constantius the Arian Emperour take vpon him to be Prince of Bishops to decree and preside in Ecclesiasticall iudgmeÌ„ts that will not say with iust reasoÌ„ that he is the desolation of abomination foretold by the Prophet Daniel S. Ambrose doth the like when writing to Valentinian the yonger who being corrupted by the Arians would iudge in matters of faith he vseth these words a Ambros l. 2. epist 13. Si vel scripturaruÌ„ se rieÌ„ diuinaruÌ„ vel vetera teÌ„porae retractemus quis abnuat in causae inquam fidei Episcopos solere de Imperatoribus Christianis noÌ„ Imperatores de Episcopis iudicare Eris Deofauente etiam insenectutis maturitateprouectior tunc de hoe censebis qualis ille Episcopi â—â— sit qui I aicis ills Sacerdotale substernit .... si confereÌ„dum de fide Sacerdotum debet esse istae collatio sicut factâ— est sabâ— onstaÌ„tino Augusta memâ—riae I 〈◊〉 cipe Et Tract de Basil non tradend Quid honorificentius quam vt Imperator Ecclesiae filius dicatur If we ether reflect vpon the order of Scripture or tymes by-past who will deny but that in points of faith in points of Faith I say the Bishopes were accustomed to iudge of Emperours not they of Bishops Vvith the helpe of God goes he on tyme will ripen thee and then you wilt iudge what kind of Bishope he is who will subiect Priestly right to laymen if a conference be to be had of faith it belongs to the Preists as it happened vnder Constantine Prince of sacred memorie Vvhat hath an Emperour more honorable then to be stiled the sonne of the Church That that which the Fathers say herin is verified by the Scripture the punishment which befell those who would needs lay hand vpon the Thurible doth confirme Further it would not b 2. Agg. 2. v. 12. command that things belonging to the law should be demaÌ„ded from the mouth of the Preist without making any mention at all of kings if both were equally lawfull It would not c 2. Paralypom say that Amarias should preside in things belonging vnto God marrie in those that apperi ayne to the office of a king Zabadias if their Courts were not distinguished To conclude d Ephes 4. v. 11. S. Paule making a long list of those who haue power in the Church had not begun with the Prophetes Euangelists Pastours and Doctours not mentioning kings if their authoritie had extended so far Againe put case the king had power to medle in such causes would you be content he should sitt vpon yours with obligation to stand to his iudgment Yes euen as the Donatists who appealed to Constantine stood to his you will stand to it if it fauour and like you appeale from it if it dislike or goe against you God saith e Vvhitak controu â— q. 5. c. 4. Iudicium sibi Deus reseruanit nulli hominum permisit one of your prime Authours following therin the donatists reserued the iudgement of religion to himselfe alone and did not grant it to any man why then will you haue the king to iudge But le ts see whether you haue a hart to enter into the lists as you make a flourish None will beleeue in my opinion that he that will not admitt of ordinarie weapons hath a desire to fight though otherwise he proclaime a loode chalance and who knowes not that in reiecting the authoritie of the Church Fathers Councells and Traditions you refuse the ordinarie weapons which are vsed in combats of Faith But oh you will admitt of the scripture and we also most willingly admitt of it yet not as it is in your hands that is Scripture not authenticall maymed corrupted interpreted according to your owne braine and most ordinarily against the true sense but the scripture preached and interpreted by the Church the pillar and rock of truth wherby we are to be deliuered from all errour Vvho could away with him that in a ciuile cause in a difficultie of importance would onely stand to the text of written lawes reiecting the explication of Doctours the credit of the historie practise and common custome in fine the authoritie of the Iudges who are appointed to doe iustice to all men But were he not yet more insupportable who onely admitting of written lawes should reiect those that are directly against him and interprete the rest following his owne fanticie In these termes are you wherby it well appeares that though you make shew to desire a conference yet indeed you flie it contenting your selues to haue occasion to bruit abroad amongst your friends that you offered a disputatioÌ„ concealing from them in the interim that you refused the iust and reasonable conditions therof apprehending that you haue done sufficiently in putting out some smale pampletes which decide nothing at all
nor are good for any thing but to giue a false alarme and content such as please themselues to heare calumnies cast out against the Church This moues you to cry out that Catholike religion is made a traffike and that Prelates intrench vpon the liuing and the deade Is it to intrench vpon the deade to doe that which we see hath bene practised in the primitiue Church in the tyme of a Tert. â—l de cer mil. c. 3. Oblationes pro defunctis pro natalitiis annua die faci mus Item l de Monoga pro anima eius offerat annuis diebus Tertul. b Cyprian ep 66. refert vt si quis frater clericum tutorem nominas set non offeretur pro eo nec saecrificium pro dormitatione eius celebraretur S. Cyprian and others and the contrarie to which is condeÌ„ned for heresie in the persoÌ„ of Aerius by the relation of a Aug haec 53. Epiphan har 75. S. Augustine and S. Epiphanius As your beliefe resembles that of the auncient Heresiarkes condemned by the Church so your manner of proceeding is not vnlike to theirs for the Manichees did vpbraide S. Augustine Vigilantius and S. Hierome that for their owne profit and interest they defeÌ„ded the doctrine of the Church which is the verie same which now you obiect against vs. The Prelates nether intrench vpon the liuing nor the deade but doe greatly assiste the one and the other wheras you abuse them both They assiste the liuing by instructions and Sacraments the liuing and the deade by their prayers and their sacryfices wheras you doe altogether neglect the deade and the care which you haue of the liuing hath no other effect then the death of their soules You say that the Pope for some ages past hath hindred kings to read the Scriptures Where doe you find that prohibition The Popes would alwayes exceedingly reioyce that kings who are learned and are addicted to reading should exactly reade them being confident that by the assistaÌ„ce of learned men who are able to explicate the sense vnto theÌ„ they will clearly discouer that the gouerment of the Church is not built vpon the ignorance of the word of God as you calumniate but that your religion is grounded vpon the corruptions and bad interpretations of that sacred word They will also see that the Pope makes not himselfe the supreame iudge of faith but that he was constituted such by God and the Church which is the pillar and rocke of truth seeing God did constitute Peter a Petra or rocke vpon which it is built And indeede S. Hierome though most conuersant in all holy Scripture did yet beseech Pope Damasus that he would decree whether we ought to say one or thee hypostases professing that he would hold as an article of faith what he defined Had not S. Bernard also the Scripture before his eyes when he wrote to Pope Innocent the II. that all the dangers and scandalls which rise in the kingdome of God ought to be referred to his Apostleshippe especially things concerning faith Vvas the Scripture vnknowen to IustiniaÌ„ the Emperour when he saith in his Epistle to Pope Iohn the II. we suffer nothing to passe which belongs to the state of the Church vnknowen to your Holines who is the heade of all the holy Churches Vvhy did the Ecumenicall Councells held in the primitiue Church demand the confirmation of their Decrees of the Pope if they knew not by holy write that they were obliged therunto Vvas not the Scripture both in the east and west Church when as S. Hâ—erome relates the Synodicall consultations of both those parts of the world were sent to Pope Damasus to be confirmed Kings meete with nothing in Scripture but your condemnatioÌ„ And if they daigne to cast an eye vpon historie they shall find that the Popes whose greatnes is represented as preiudiciall to this our France hath not bene a litle aduantagious vnto it But if any haue raysed themselues to the detriment of France alwayes most Catholike and with the diminution of the most Christians kings dignitie you are the men who being enemyes to the Catholike Church and Christian religion like true children of darknes had your birth and groth by meanes of their obscuritie CHAP. XIV MINISTERS THe neglect of these things hath for the space of many yrares drawen great inconueniencies vpon France and hath made it a Theater wherupon bloodie Tragedies haue bene acted while God punisheth the contempt of his word and the oppression of his children The ripenes of your witt dread Soueraigne euen in the spring of your yeares and the tymelynes in princelike and Christian vertues which discouer themselues in your Maiestie makes vs hope for a more happie age vnder your raigne God who besto wed your Maiestie on France in his benediction will by his prouidence conserue you and will settle and confirme your scepter in your hands making vse of it to the establishment of his sonns kingdome who is king of kings so that God raigning by you may raigne also in you to the end that you may raigne with him for euer But if contrarie suggestions hinder our humble supplications from being receaued of your Maiestie with wished successe yet will we neuer cease while God grants life to instruct your people in obedience and loyallie to Wards your Maiestie and we will pray to God for the conseruation of your person and the prosperitie of your Kingdome as it becomes such as are c. ANSWERE IT is not at this present onely that the professours of a false beliefe impute the calamities which happen in their tymes to the contempt of their errours for euen Tertull. Arnobius S. Cyprian S. August and diuers others doe witnesse that the Pagans ascribed all the disasters of their tymes to the honour in which Christian religion was held and to the contempt of theirs In this you imitate these old PagaÌ„s and indeede since the end doth crowne the worke it was fitting that your writing which is full of the imitations of ancient heretiques condemned by the Church should be crowned with the imitation of Pagans condemned by all christian societies If the calamities of France did proceede from the contempt of your religion it had not so much florished in the tyme oâ— the Albigeois whom you accnowledge to be your brothers seeing it did persequute them in open warre And without doubt it had bene oppressed with miseries vnder the raigne of Pepin Charlemagne who religiously honored the Popes and the Roman Church wheras it was neuer more florishing then in their raigne Againe Italie and spayne where your errours are not currant whence those that professe them are banished and where the holy sea is as much honored as in any place of the world should be most miserable contries But your assertions haue no grounde of reason It is true indeede as the Fathers doe obserue that temporall felicitie doth follow religion marrie not yours but that onely