Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
Text snippets containing the quad
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A75437
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An ansvver to the nevv motions or, A serious and briefe discussion of certaine motions now in question.
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1641
(1641)
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Wing A3427; Thomason E205_4; ESTC R15235
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10,697
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25
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they had Psalmes to sing at the Passeover the 113 114 115 116 117 118. accounted together to be a great grace unto the Passeover which our Saviour Christ observed and sung with his disciples Matth. 26.30 Fifthly to conclude prayers are not worse because they are stinted and in set words for Christ prayed thrice in one night using the same words Matth. 26.44 And taught his Disciples the set forme called the Lords Prayer saying Say thus For any exceptions you now take or take up against any materiall passages or Prayers in the book it selfe they are such as have often been answered by D. Boyes Hutton and others long since The sixth Demand Whether all Churches and people without exception bee not bound in religion to receive and submit unto that Ministery Worship and Order which Christ as Lord and King hath given and appointed to his Church and whether any may receive and joyne to any other devised by man to the service of God and consequently whether they that ioyne to the present Ecclesiasticall Ministery Worship and Order of these Cathedrall and Parishionall Assemblies can be assured by the Word of God that they joyne to the former ordained by Christ and not to the later invented by man for the worship and service of God Answer YOu aske Whether people must submit to those things onely which are instituted by Christ or whether they may submit to the inventions of men In matters of substance and worship of God I say only to Christs institution but in outward circumstances the Magistrate hath authority to ordaine for comelinesse and herein not to obey him is the sinne of disobedience As to appoint with what action wee shall receive the Eucharist in what kind of bread in what kind of wine at what time of the yeer and how often in what apparrell it should bee ministred or such like But he may not alter matters substantiall and if he should therein we ought not to submit to any such command but we ought rather to undergoe the penalty inflicted on the deniall as to adore the bread with as much worship as we doe Christ to communicate in one kinde onely and such like which Papists have divised Now then consequently seeing wee keep the substance of Gods true worship according to his Word and in all outward things are a great deale nearer the rules of comely order and decency than you are They that joyne themselves to us may be assured that they joyne to a Church founded after Gods Word and so can they not be that joyne themselves to you seeing you set up unto your selves a new Synagogue And thus your Demands are satisfied Now then to come to a finall issue in this controversie If any of these faults bee in our Church or more of them than you can prove for I would yeeld you an Epha where you cannot prove an Omer yet have you no just cause of your separation from our Congregations so unnaturally to despise the wombe that bare you and the paps that gave you suck yea to separate from all the Churches in Christendome to a new handfull at Amsterdam witnesses against you are all those who dislike many things as you doe and yet communicate with us Who albeit by their rash dislikings they have been accessory to your fall yet herein they forsake you their consciences will not suffer them to fall utterly from the Church wherin both you and they have confessed that our doctrine is true and according to Gods word And herein I will convince you by as many arguments as you have proposed Demands 1 First the Jewish Church in the time of the Prophets was more corrupt than you can affirme of ours of which the Prophets doe affirme that there was no whole part from the bead to the feet that the faithfull City was become an harlot that they were princes of Sodome and people of Gomorra yet the same Prophets never forlook the fellowship of the Church but still reproving their faults did communicate with them in the Temple sacrifices and prayers as witnesse the history and writings of the same Prophets 2 The Church in our Saviour Christs time was worse than that possessed and ruled by Scribes Pharises and Saducees of which Christ said that the blinde led the blinde that they taught for doctrines the precepts of men that they made the word of God of no effect by their traditions that they made the house of Prayer a denne of theeves that they justified themselves in their owne righteousnesse that they devoured widowes houses under pretence of long prayers and therefore many Woes were pronounced against them Mat. 23. Notwithstanding all this our Saviour Christ before he took upon him his publick-Ministery was presented in this Temple before these Priests and there many offered their oblation before them Luk. 2.22 There and before them and amongst this people did Christ appeare with his Parents when he was twelve yeares old at the Feast of the Passeover then in the Temple he associated with the Doctors bearing them and asking them questions and affording them his answers Luk. 2.4.42 3 After that he took upon him his publick Ministery he usually repaired to the Temple at every of these three solemne Feasts and there taught daily and openly in the Temple Ioh. 2.13 Ioh. 18.22 he usually taught and healed in the Jewes Sinagogue amongst the people Luk. 4.15.16 he ever sought to purge Gods house but not to leave it for the zeale of Gods house had eaten him up Ioh. 2.17 but the hatred of Gods Church and house doth drive you from it 4 And as he used himselfe to communicate with the visible Church so he taught his to doe Mat. 23. saith he The Scribes and Pharises sit in Moses chaire therefore heare them and doe as they bid you but after their works doe not for they say and doe not and when he purged Leapers as Mat. 8.4 he sent them to shew themselves to these Priests to be judged by them and there with them to offer the gift which Moses commanded for a testimony unto them he taught his how they should offer the legall offerings aright before these Priests Mat. 5.23 24. If thou bring thy gift to the Altar and there remembrest that thy brother hath ought against thee leave there thine offering before the Altar and goe thy way first bee reconciled to thy brother and then come offer thy gift 5 And lest you should say that this was till Christ had finished all things and abrogated the Law as Christ did himselfe and taught others to doe so did his Apostles after the Passion and Resurrection for Act. 2.46 They continued daily with one accord in the Temple and Acts 3.1 Peter and Iohn went up together into the Temple at the ninth houre of Prayer that is at our three of the clock after noone which was the time of the Evening Sacrifice and Acts 3.20 As they were bidden of God they entred into the Temple and this they did daily Acts 5.42 Yea Saint Paul more particularly in the Temple purified himselfe with other brethren and they prepared their offerings to bee offered for every one of them before the Priests Acts 21.26 6 Yea lest you should say the Jewish Church had any prerogative the Apostles accounted those Christian Churches holy and to be communicated withall which yet were unperfect defective and reproveable in many things Saint Paul highly commended the Church of Corinth 1. Cor. 1. and yet reproved them in that Epistle of many faults both in doctrine and manners as carnall and schismaticall some holding of Paul some of Cephas some of Apollo Chap. 3. For suffering the incestuous man amongst them Chap. 5. For going to Law one against another under the infidels and for accounting fornication small or no sinne Chap. 6. For eating with offence to to the weak things offered to Idols Chap. 8.9 10. For abusing the publick Assemblies and the Lords Supper Chap. 11. For abusing the spirituall gifts to oftentation not to edifying Chap. 12 13 14. For denying the Resurrection Chap. 15. For some of them said there was no Resurrection vers 12. And yet notwithstanding before all these were amended yea before they were by him reproved in the first words of that Epistle hee giveth them the Title of Gods Church of Saints by Calling and such as were called to the fellowship of Christ to teach us how to think of Militant Churches upon Earth The like may be observed of the Church of Galatia and divers others 7 Lastly the doctrine of the Apostles is That the Church indeed is the Pillar and ground of truth because God will lead it into all necessary truth but yet that it may erre in matters of lesser weight as it is exemplified by Churches to which they wrose their Epistles That the Church is spotted in her selfe but without spot or wrinkle by acceptance in Christ Ephes 5. and see every particular man and member of the Church that hee is partly flesh and partly spirit unperfect in himselfe but perfect by the Grace and merits of Christ So Saint Iohn in the Apocalyps seeth the seven Churches of Asia in Christs presence as seven golden Candlesticks and the seven Angels thereof in Christs right hand as seven Starres chap. 1. yet against every one of them both Churches and Angels he hath somewhat in the Epistles which he wrote unto them Chap. 2.3 to teach us to esteem men and Churches not by their own imperfections but according to that grace and estate which they have obtained by the mercy of Christ Wherefore I wish you beware in time take heed lest the Serpent which seduced Eve doe also deceive you even whilst you thinke with her to become like Gods consider that this your Covenant of Separation may be a sinne of presumption Remember Abraham your Father and Satah that bare you so that with better consideration you may returne to your Mother the Church againe and keepe with her the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace which God grant for Christ his sake Amen FINIS
AN ANSWER TO THE NEW MOTIONS OR A serious and briefe Discussion of certaine MOTIONS now in question MOLLIA CVM DVRIS LONDON Printed for Robert Bostook 1641. AN ANSWER TO THE New Motions The first Demand Whether the Lord Iesus Christ hath by his last Will and Testament given unto and set in his Church sufficient Ordinary Offices with their Calling Works and Maintenance for the Administration of his holy things and for the sufficient ordinary instruction guidance and service of his Church unto the end of the World or no Answer I Had rather have answered your Reasons than these your bare Interrogatories yet because you have so proposed them I thought good thus briefly to runne over them hoping that if you have the spirit of humility you will submit to the truth To this first therefore I answer That the Lord Iesus Christ hath in his New Testament instituted perpetuall Offices in his Church and all their Callings workes and Maintenance that is The substance of all these is there appointed perpetuall but the appendant Circumstances are variable as time and persons in the Churches judgement may best require For the Tree doth stand when the leaves doe change and a man is the same though his apparrell be varied These outward fashions are so variable that herein Nationall Churches may differ one from another yea the Apostles altered divers such things themselves For first They distributed the goods of the Church to the poore and when land was sold the money was brought to their feet and they distributed to every man according to his necessity Act. 4.35 Yet afterwards upon occasion it fell out that they layd this charge from themselves upon Deacons Act. 6. For so the poore bee cared for it is not so materiall by whom it is done Againe They instituted the Love-feasts to be used with the Lords Supper Act. 2.46 Yet S. Paul did againe abrogate them at Corinth 1 Cor. 11. And for that which is in the beginning of that Chapter that women shall come and pray in publick is perpetuall but that they should come vailed which the Apostle there urgeth as then fitting is now no where thought necessary Now then the substance of Calling Offices Works and Maintenance of the Ministry remaining the outward manner of these things may vary so that according to the Apostles rule All things be done decently and in order The second Demand Whether the Offices of Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons and Helpers be those very Offices appointed by Christ in his Testament as aforesaid Or Whether the present Ecclesiasticall Offices of Archbishops Bishops Deanes Sub-deanes Prebendaries Chancellours Priests Deacons or halfe-Priests Archdeacons Commissaries Officialls Registers Proctors Apparitors Parsons Vicars Curats Stipendiaries Vagrant-Preachers Chaplaines or House-Priests Canons Petty Canons Chanters Quoristers Organists Church-wardens Sides-men and the rest now had in these Cathedrall and Parochiall Assemblies be those Offices appointed by Christ in his Testament or not Answer IT being granted That Christ hath instituted perpetuall Offices then you aske whether your five-fold Orders of Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons and Helpers or our Archbishops Bishops Deanes c. be those For yours first I say that Pastors and Teachers are indeed instituted by Christ in his Church perpetuall but they are no more yours than ours we have them as well as you for to teach and feed the flock is the work of our Ministers and the end of their Calling Herein you differ from us that you make a necessary and perpetuall difference of these two as though they were distinct Offices whereas the Apostle Epes 4. reckons them onely as Gifts hee hath given gifts unto men and couples those two together not dis-junctively as the rest Some Pastors and Teachers One Minister may and ought to doe both these Exhort and Teach as is used in our Church And the practice of the Apostles was so as appeares in all their Sermons written in the Acts. Indeed where the Auditory doth onely require instruction there exhorting may be omitted as use the Divinity Lectures in Schooles and such an one was Origen But otherwise the same Minister is to doe both by the very Apostles practice And were it not to make up your Ruling-Presbytery with variety you your selves would have no more And for your third Office of Elders if rightly understood it was founded in the Scriptures but not as you take it for you make it a third degree and office from the former and that it should signifie a Lay-Governour who should not meddle with the Word or Sacraments but onely sit among the Pastors and Doctors to Govern Such an one hath no foundation in the Word of God But rightly understood it hath and is the name of a Minister of Iesus Christ in the New Testament For he is called a Pastor and Teacher for the duties of his Ministery and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for his dignitie in the Church We translate it Elders for difference sake because in English Aaron and his Stock are translated Priests Otherwise Priest is the fittest Translation for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the very letters which Latine Italian French and others have imitated Shew us now then any where Lay-Priests founded in the New Testament as we can shew your Presbyters Priests Elders call them what you will for they all speak the same order being every where taken for the Ministers of the Word Act. 10. Such Priests or Elders S. Paul sent for and telleth them of their charge which the Holy Ghost had set them to to feed the slock such he teacheth Titus to ordaine Chap. 2. and calleth them there also by another name Such doth S. Peter admonish 1. Pet. 5.1 The Prosbyters or Elders amongst you I exhort which am a Co-Presbyter c. We may not make so many Offices of the Ministers as he hath severall Names for then shall wee make more than you have or would make seeing he is named not onely Pastor Doctor Elder or Priest but also Bishop Overseer Steward Messenger Embassador Deacon and such like Thus hitherto you have not found three distinct Offices of Pastor Doctor Eldor but three Names of one and the same Office which is the Minister of the Word For Deacons their office of distributing to the poore is not so necessary for all times for which only use you would have them perpetuall for as much as they were wanting in the time of Christ for then Iudas one of the twelve bare the bagge and gave to the poore Afterwards the Apostles themselves did this when those that sold their lands for the poores releife brought it to their feet and they distributed as every one had need Acts 4.35 But when the labours of preaching and the multitude of poore encreased the Apostles laid that care upon seaven chosen men Act. 6. So did they also ordaine in other Churches for yet the Magistrate was enemy to the faith and would not either help the Minister or succour the poore because they