Answ None knowes nor is made Ministers of Christ by Arts nor by Languages let them get all the Languages upon the earth they are still but naturalists and men learning anothers mans natural Language and he hath learned but that which is natural and he knowes but that which is natural what another natural man can speak and all their Arts is there Now that which makes a Minister of Christ is beyond the natural yea all the natural Languages upon the earth and seeth before they was let it cost them never so much yea gold and silver a wedge of gold and silver to get naturals and the most precious things upon the earth cannot purchase nor make a Minister of Christ that which makes them is the Spirit of God nor none knows the Scriptures but with the Spirit of God given forth from the Spirit of God Nor none knowes the errours but by the Spirit of God Now if all men upon the earth have Scriptures in every one of their natural Languages yet none of these knowes the errours nor none of these knowes the Scriptures without the Spirit of God from which they was given forth Pr. He saith If the Magistrates could find out any other way for maintenance for Ministers they would part with tythes which have been this many hundreds of years Page 9. And there is many Ministers will not take their Tythes but they compound with the people for their Tythes And we dare not trust the people for maintenance But we see care hath been taken for us many many hundred years before we were born c. Page 10. And why doth not the Quakers charge us with idleness as well as with taking wages Answ Are ye not all a company of idle fellowes bred up at School in the filthiness of the earth pride and filth and when ye come out ye raven after great Benefices and troubling Parishes and stirring up the people to envy against one another like a company of mad-men and suing and hailing people up and down to Courts for maintenance Are not these the works of belly-gods And is the Magistrate the Lord of the vineyard that he must allot Ministers maintenance and the labourers Hath not Christ told his Ministers what they must have already And was not the Apostles to go forth without any thing and to trust the Lord and the people which you dare not trust them And trust to the Gospel which ye dare not trust the Gospel to maintain you but you have a set Benefice or augmentation or a Magistrates power to give you maintenance before you go out to a Parish Oh how are ye biting and devouring one another for such things as was not accounted of or esteemed among the Saints who suffered joyfully the spoiling of their goods by such devourers as you are And is that your deceit to compound with people for their Tythes and is that your cloak then to say you do not take Tythes and since the dayes of the Apostles in the apostacy since the power of God the Gospel hath been lost hath tythes been set up which men should have Preached and lived on So you that have had the form of godliness denyed the power the Gospel ravened from the life of God your Gospel will not maintain you and ye cry help Magistrate help Law cast into prison summon up to Courts and this hath been your work for many hundred years for maintenance And so all sober men that stands and looks on are ashamed of you Thus the poor people are deceived with your false covers wolvish spirits you have gotten the sheepes cloathing upon your backs but now is the vials and hail storms fallen upon your heads which makes many of you gnaw your tongues and now is the thunders coming out and plagues which makes many of you free your selves Pr. He saith False Apostles and deceitful workers and Satan transforming himself into an Angel of light c. Page 11. Answ Christ said false prophets Antichrists the inwardly ravenors in the sheepes cloathing should come the Apostles saw they was come before their decease which was devouring as most of the Epistles declare of them the Apostles saw them before their decease that made a prey upon the Saints that served not the Lord Jesus Christ but their own bellies now since the dayes of the Apostles hath the world run after them and they have devoured the world and they have gotten the sheepes cloathing upon their backs therefore have ye deceived the world Now you have been the skirts and the suburbs of this great City the day hath declared you your City is besieged and the Lamb and the Saints have conquered it by whom the Saints have been slain and their blood drunk In which City hath a trumpet sounded and the piping hath been and the mourners have gone about the City But now is come Lamentation desolation and wo to her and all her Merchandize that hath builded up and thrown down whereby the world is brought into confusion the faith and truth and life and love being reprobated out of and from that the Saints was in that gave forth the Scriptures that which the Apostles saw coming in before their decease which Christ said should come hath ruled and raigned since their decease until this day that Christ hath come and made it manifest Pr. He saith the devil could not do mischief in the Church where the candle is burning and light shining but he gets on his garbe and the weakest of children are carryed about with every winde of Doctrine pag. 17. He saith the prince of darkness is transformed into an Angel of light he walketh in the Churches pag. 18. Answ The Church of Christ is the pillar and ground of truth which truth the Devil is out of and abode not in it he walkes on the out side and is not in the Church and so children thou knowes not that are heirs of the Kingdom of Christ and are of his Church the pillar and ground of truth And the devil and false prophets and mother of harlots though they have all the sheepes cloathing yet cannot get into the Church where the candle is and the burning shining light with all his Garbe as thou calls it Let the whore be arrayed never so gorgiously who hath ravened from the spirit of God that 's the Church the pillar and ground of truth that be in the spirit of God the Candle is burning and light shining this the whore and the Devil and the wolves and the false prophets and Antichrists and beast is out of raging on the outside in the earth so the Church is the pillar and ground of truth the Church of Christ and here the elect is known that cannot be deceived And the Devil and the Prince of darkness though he transform himself into an Angel of light yet he doth not walk in the Church for the Church is in God the pillar and ground of truth and out of that he is and all
regard and receive but if one come in the Name of the Lord him you put out so you will not have the Lord nor his Christ to reign neither his servants to labour in his Vineyard Pr. Ministery is like a mighty tree whose fruit the Lord hath appointed for the healing of the Nations Answ But your Ministers and the Papists hath been them got up since the days of the Apostles that brings Nations all into heaps and into blood and doth not heale the Nations but wounds and burthens and kills and casts into prison as this your fruit declares it who casts into prison such as you doe no work for Pr. To the Law and to the Testimony pray to the Father of lights that he would enlighten us with his truth and shew us the way that he would have us to walke in and pray for us who watch for your soules as those that must give account Answ The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy And the Law is light and the Law and Testimony was before Matthew Marke Luke and Iohn and the Epistles were written and the Revelations which outward Books you call Law and Testimony which the Scripture saith the testimony of Iesus is the spirit of prophesie and the Law is light Prov. 6. Are you them that are the makers of Ministers and Ministers who watch for the soules of people and yet do you bid people pray to the Father that he would enlighten you with his truth and shew you the way that you may walke in it How can you present soules to God that doth not know the way and are yet to be enlightned and yet to have the way shewed so you that you might walke in it Is this your conclusion of all you Ministers in Ireland Now I say Christ hath enlightned every man which comes into the world which is the way and though your darknesse cannot comprehend it and yet you pray that he would enlighten you When John saith he doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world and that is the true light Have you the light to seek and the way to seek and truth to seek and yet watchers for souls And the soule you that are called Ministers saith it is humane yea the soule of Christ the soule of man is appetite and lust and pleasure and humane from the earth from the ground Is Christs soule from the ground and appetite lust and pleasure wars against the soul in them that be in the unreasonablenesse You that have the light to seek truth to seek and way to seek are in the earth and so gives the soule the name of that which comes from the ground Now the soule is immortall God breathed into man the breath of life and he became a living soule It is that which came out from God who hath all souls in his hand that 's his power which hand goes against him that doth evill And Christ the power of God which is immortall is the souls Bishop which is immortall from whence it hath its nourishment and the immortall which is able to save the immortal soul And as for all the rest of your ignorance and non-sence in your Book which comes from your confused earthly spirit who are found in the nature spirit and stock of your Father the Pope who hath apostatized since the dayes of the Apostles with all the rest of your stuffe which is but fuel for the fire in that day of your account the witnesse in all your consciences shall answer it John Stillom his Book called Margent Notes His Principles as followeth Pr. HEe calls it the Quakers adoring their own light magnifying the light of nature The Church is ashamed of your doctrine and walking saith he Ans The Quakers light is Christ the truth in whom they worship God which light was before naturall lights were and this the Church owns and is not ashamed of in which stands the Doctrine by which light the Church is gathered up unto God the Father of light but the imitated Churches in the Apostacy are ashamed of it Pr. Not any man knows him speaking of Christ to be God till he finde him in Scripture and saith as deep things as the spirit hath revealed they are all in the Scripture Ans Many knew God and knew Christ and yet had not written Scripture to tell them of those things as Enoch and Abel and many again hath Scripture speaking of God and Christ and yet doth not know God and Christ and doth not finde him in Scripture As instance the Pharisees knew not God and Christ which had the Scripture and had not life untill they came to Christ the Scripture speaks of and many things the spirit did reveal which was not written in the Scriptures and was spoken to the Saints Pr. John meaneth not that there was any substantiall truth necessary to be known to salvation which is not revealed in the written Word but the spirit that ordered the Copies and mysteries of the Gospell to be contracted within a narrow compass of lines Answ Many knew their salvation as in the dayes of Noah Enoch and David which had not the written Scriptures And though people have the Copies that speaks of the Gospel of the mysteries of the Gospel put together and compassed and contracted into lines yet they do not know the Gospell nor the mysteries of it nor the Word though they testifie of these things and the Pharisees did not that had Scripture which Scripture doth not tell us of written words but that the Word is Christ and God which was in the beginning before words were given forth And Gospell and salvation and the mysteries of it is known by the Spirit and the Light which come from Christ Jesus which none knows it but by that Pr. Stillom adds not onely heart rising prophesie nâ—r breast-prophesie in the minde but written downe in books The Apostle excludes not heart-prophesie so he includes Scripture-prophesie but till the day-star did arise in their mindes by the reading and heeding of the Scriptures that is plain meaning Answ The Scriptures were given forth by prophesie and the spirit of it and no man knows but by the same spirit and the Apostle did not exclude heart-prophesie and the Day-star doth not rise in the heart by mens reading and heeding the Scriptures in their own wills and having them in books written down but as men do come to the life and spirit as they were in that gave them forth and heed that with that they heed Scripture and knows Scripture and with that they know the Day-star and Christ who is the end of them and so men must come to take heed of the light that shines in a dark place before they know the Day-star arise For the Jewes had Scripture and did not heed that for the spirit within of prophesie doth not deny any tittle of the Scripture without And in thy Principle thou hast confounded thy selfe who saith Not heart-prophesie heart-rising
THE GREAT MISTERY OF THE GREAT WHORE UNFOLDED AND ANTICHRISTS KINGDOM Revealed unto DESTRVCTION In Answer to many False Doctrines and Principles which Babylons Merchants have traded with being held forth by the professed Ministers and Teachers and Professors in England Ireland and Scotland taken under their owne Hands and from their owne Mouths sent forth by Them from time to time against the despised People of the LORD called QVAKERS who are of the Seed of that Woman who hath been long fled into the WILDERNES ALSO An Invasion upon the great City BABYLON with the spoling of Her golden Cup and delicate Merchandize whereby She hath deceived the World and Nations And herein is declared the spoyling of her prey in this Answer to the multitude of Doctrines held forth by the many false SECTS which have lost the key of Knowledge and been on foot since the Apostles dayes called Anabaptists Independents Presbyters Ranters and many others who out of their own Mouths have manifested themselves not to be of a true descent from the true Christian Churches But it 's discovered that they have been all made drunk with the Wine of Fornication received from the Whore which hath sitten upon the Beast after whom the World hath wondred By GEORGE FOX And the Merchants of the Earth shall weep and mourn over her for no man buyeth their merchandize any more Rev. 18.18 And they cryed when they saw the smoak of her burning saying what City is like unto this great City And they cast dust on their heads and cryed weeping and wailing saying Alas alas that great City wherein were made rich all that had Ships in the Sea by reason of her costliness for in one hour is she made desolate Rev. 18 18 19. LONDON Printed for Tho Simmons at the Ball and Mouth near Aldersgate 1659. THE EPISTLE TO THE READER TO all the world to whom this may come to be Read that they read with a good understanding and hereby they may come to the perfect knowledge of the ground of difference between the Priests and Professors and all Sects in these Nations and Us who are in scorn called Quakers shewing that the conversie on our paâ—â— is just and equal against them all and tâ—â—â— we have sufficient cause to cry against them and to deny their Mâ—â—â—stry their Church their worship and their whole Religion as being not in the Power and by the Spirit 〈…〉 â—â—â—ng God as commanded of him or ever practiced by his Sain◠〈◊〉 â—ut 〈◊〉 â—â—clareth the gâ—â—und and foundation thereof to be anotheâ—â—â—â—â—g aâ—â—â—ot the same on which the true Church and Ministry anâ—â—â—actice 〈◊〉 worship and true Religion was builded in the daye◠〈◊〉 Apoâ—â—â—es And also this is an Invitation to all Sects and professioâ— of People to come forth and try if what they hold and professe be according â—o the Scriptures of truth and to do this in tryall by evident and sound Arguments and by the best spiritual weapons they have and to laâ—â—â—â—e all this persecution and unrighteous dealing and stocking and wâ—â—pping and imprisoning of us for speaking against their Religion and that they come forth in fair dispute to contend in the Spirit of meekness for what they professe and practice and to prove according to the Scriptures their Ministry Church and whole Religion that it is in and by the spirit and power of God or otherwise to renounce and deny all their Religion and the profession and practices thereof that every man may be satisfied who it is that are in the true and right way and of the true worship and true Religion and who it is that are not and this is desired by us who are called Quakers and also a true account of our first beginning and coming forth in the world and of that great sufferings we have sustained and how we have been carryed on and are preserved to this day The Lord God everlasting who is true and faithful hath fulfilled his promise in us and unto us and we are gathered from the mouths of all dumb Shepherds and out of the mouths of all Hirelings who have made a prey upon us and fed themselves with the fat and devoured souls for dishonest gain And we are come to the fould of Eternal rest where Christ Jesus is the chief Shepherd and he is the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls that feedeth his Flock with living bread that nourisheth us unto life eternal he hath called us by his Name and put us forth and he feedeth us in green pastures and we are fed with hidden Manna and lies down at Noon with his gathered Flock and out of Nations kindreds multitudes and peoples are we Redeemed to God and are come out of the world and out of great Babylon and out of spiritual Sodom and Egypt where the Lord Christ was and is crucified and lyeth slain to this day and a top of the world hath the Lord set us on the mountain of his oâ—n house and dwelling where we behold and feel the life and glory Crown of the world that hath no end and the world that hath an end is seen over and its Crown and glory is his footstool that Reigns among us And as for all that which this perishing world brings forth which men seek after only It s reckoned our temptation though all the sons of Adam are seeking its glory its Riches its Crowns its contentments But of that birth are we which hath no Crown no glory nor rest under the Sun and a birth is brought forth amongst us which is heir of another Kingdom and possessor of anoâ—â—er Crown whose glorying is in the Lord all the day long and he is ouâ— Refuge our Rock and our fortresse against all our Enemies and what though the wicked arm themselves and the ungodly bend their bâ—w what though all sorts of people from the Prince upon his Tâ—â—◠〈◊〉 â—he Beggar upon the dunghill exalt themselves against thâ— dâ—â—piseâ—â—â—ople of Lords inheritance who for his Names sake are kiâ—â—â—d all the â—ay long what though the wisemen bring forth their Aâ—â—â—â—â—nts anâ— what though the Rulers bring forth unrighteous Judgemeâ—â—s again 〈◊〉 â—eed that God hath blessed what though the revilers and scorners open their mouthes and reproachers and revilers cast out their bitter words as a flood against the remnant of the womans seed that hath long been fled into the wilderness and what then if the Teachers the Prophets and the Elders and the heads and wise men of the world set themselves to pray and Preach and Print against the chosen seed of Jacob yet notwithstanding all this though this is come to passe and hell open her mouth and her floods break forth to overflow and be much more increased yet shall the King of righteousness rule among his people and his presence will not forsake his chosen ones But the Lord is with us a mighty and terrible one and the shout of a King is amongst us and the dread and terror of
the Almighty covereth us and it goeth before us and compasseth us about and the Lord is working a work in the Earth mighty and wonderful he is gathering the scattered and binding up the broken hearted and his people shall dwell in safety and none shall make them afraid and no weapon that is formed against them shall prosper nor no hand that is lifted up shall prevail For Sion shall arise out of the dust her beautiful garments shall be put on and mourning and sorrow shall flee away and her light is risen that is everlasting and the Sun shall never go down but his day shall remain for ever and the night shall not again cover her brightness nor the Sun set upon her habitations the City that hath long laid waste shall again be builded and the dwelling that hath long been without inhabitant shal be replenished for the numberles seed of Jacob is coming out of Egypt that will replenish the whole Earth and the seed of Esau shall become bondmen and wherefore are you gathered together and to what purpose have the wicked spent their strength to oppose what the Lord is bringing to passe shall not all our Enemies be broken to pieces and will not the Lord grinde them to powder will he not marr their beauty and stain their pride will he not bring down their crownes and corrupt their glory and stain it with his fire of wrath and make them ashamed of their wayes and Doctrines Hear this ye Priests and howl and lament for the misery that is coming upon you the Lord hath laid you naked and made you bare and you are seen as you are and the Elect is risen amongst us which ye cannot deceive but alass wo is me how have you caused the people to erre and how have you led the blind out of the way and how is truth fallen in your streets and you have daubed falsely with untempered morter and have cried peace to the wicked and condemned the righteous and all this hath vexed the righteous soul and the Lord will now arise and is risen and you shall not resist and escape the stroak of his hand which will come upon you and bruise you as a milstone for you have caused the wicked to rejoyce and the righteous to mourn and you have made sad his heart whom God hath not made sad have not you fed your selves with the fat and clothed with the wooll and hath not the peoples souls been starved and leanness been upon them all your plants aâ—â— dry and barren trees that brings forth no good fruit and your pâ—â—ple are like a wilderness that is untilled and unploughed and undressed and your flocks are like wild asses upon the mountains that is untamed as rude as the Horse and mule that knows no bridle and now it is seen what the end of your Ministry is and what fruit it hath brought sorth the Lord hath taken notice and he hath beheld how you have loytered and laid idle and the Nations lies yet like fallow ground that bears no fruit and mens hearts are untouched with absence of Gods word and there is no sound true and perfect sence amongst your people of the dealings of the Lord nor of the operation of his spirit but they remain in great blindness and ignorance void of the knowledge of God for ye have not caused them to hear his word but you have told your dreams and your false visions and you have spoken imaginations of your hearts and not from the mouth of the Lord neither have you stood in his Counsel nor hearkened to his voyce and therefore people remains unprofited but what they and you know it s naturally and not by the spirit of the Father but as dry trees you are not taught of the Father and as rough goats in the nature of swine that is polluted in the filth of the world and in the nature of dogs and Lyons devouring another and biting one another and killing one another which things were not in the Churches of Christ and we have a great controversie with you and that from the Lord we have tried you searched you and disovered your foundation and it s not found nor will not stand in the triall we have fetcht your Line from the first original and we have found out your beginning and we find yours of that Race which Christ prophesied of that should come which should deceive many having the sheeps cloathing but inwardly ravening and which Iohn saw was come and went out from the Apostles and true Churches which went from the truth and went into the world and had the forme of godlinesse without the power here began the Race in the Apostacie of the Churches and when they Apostatized from the true faith then came your original up and the world went after them and all that dwelt upon the earth worshiped the beast that hath reigned through all this time of Apostacie which hath been since the daies of the Apostles and we find your original goe no further then to the false bretheren and false Apostles which went out from the true Apostles and run for gifts and rewards and preached for filthie lucre and through covetousnesse made merchandize of souls seeking monie and gain to themselves I say we find your Original begins there and your Line goes no further and never came your first rise so far as the true Apostles you were not in your beginning of their life nor birth nor cannot be reckoned from their Original for you succeed not them but you truely succeed the false Apostles and fals bretheren which Christ prophesied should come after his daies Iohn saw was come and coming in his daies and we find you of this stock and generation and now you are discovered to be contrarie to the true Apostles and agreeing with the false Apostles in call in practice in maintenance and in all things and the Line of true judgement is laid upon you all and you are measured and found too short and weighed and found too light and we wil deale truely with you in judgement first we do hold controversie with you as concerning your call your Ministery it agreeth not with but is contrarie to what the Apostles call was they were called by power from on high and were made Ministers by the gift of the holy spirit received from God and their Ministrie was an absolute gift from God and not to be bought and sold for monie and they were anointed of the Father by his spirit of promise and to preach the Gospel but your call is at schools and Colledges in such and such orders which are attained through naturall industerie such and such arts and sciences and degrees having been so many years brought up in studying naturall arts and naturall Languages this is your ordination and your call having no respect to receive or to wait for the gift of the holy spirit to be made Ministers thereby and this is different from the Apostles
Scripture and then Judge in your consciences and do not they suffer many hard and cruel things even all manner of evil spoken and done against them falsly for the Name of Christ are you ignorant of their great sufferings through this Nation and what do you think is their suffering for evil doing or is it not for righteousness sake what harm do they do to any by work or word why are they reproached and mocked and scorned and why are they put in prisons and whipped and thus sorely abused is it for any evil doing or is it not because they are the servants of the Lord compare their fruits with the Priests fruits their conversation with the Priests conversation and see whether be liker the Apostles and these things I leave to you that you may come to consider and judge justly of all things for the Lord God is risen and his light in peoples consciences is shining forth and it shall answer to what I say in this world or in the day of Judgement when we and all mankind shall appear and come forth to tryal and every mans work shall be tryed and all shall receive according to their deeds And so gladly would we be made manifest to all the world if that after the reading of this book any be unsatisfied still in this matter And if any especially of the heads and Rulers have doubts or Jealousies raised in them concerning us and the Priests and that they further would be satisfied and resolved for that end let any wise men propound for full satisfaction of all sorts of people that we with the consent of the chief in Authority that have power in this Nation who may preserve peace and safety among people and thereby to stop all Jealousies may freely and chearfully four ten twenty thirty more or fewer of us give as many of the wisest and ablest of the Priests and Professors a meeting for dispute at any place in England at what place time and for what continuance as they shall ascribe and consent unto and to dispute and controvert betwixt us and them any such thing and every such particular as shall or may be objected by any of the heads and Rulers or other grave understanding men wherein they are doubful betwixt us and would thereof be satisfied that by such dispute and opening of such causes objected full and real and total satisfaction may be given to the whole Nation and every particular man and member therein Otherwise Let the Priests or professors or any of them object what they can against us in our principles profession faith and practice and our whole Religion And if they shall affirme and alledge any one or more things against us that any principle we hold or practice we profess in any part throughout all our Religion are false Principles and false practices and not according to truth nor the scriptures but shall affirme that our Religion is not the true Religion nor we of the true Church of of Christ and they shall have free liberty to give their best proofe and reason for what they affirme and alledge yet by the strength of Christ and in the power and authority of God and according to the scriptures we shall confute all their proofes and strongest reasons and on the contrary we shall joine our Principles doctrines and practices and all our Religion and every part and particular thereof to be the very truth and agreeing with the scriptures and according to that shall maintain by lawfull arguments and plea that our Religion and worship and all that we professe and Practice is according to the mind of the Lord and justified of him and that whatsoever is and may be spoken against us upon that account is utterly false and to be condemned and upon this we will ingage with them and with any of our enemies of what sect and profession soever to the intent onely that truth may be manifest and embraced and deceit and Errour discovered and denied And also upon such an engagement we should agree to have the liberty freely and soberly to object against the Priests concerning their Ministry their call their practice their maintenance and their fruits and effects and concerning their Church and principles and worship and whole Religion and shall hear patiently all that can be said in defence thereof by any or all of them and shall prove by the spirit of the Lord and according to the scriptures that their ministry is not the true Ministry of Christ nor they true and lawfull Ministers of the Gospel but shal manifest by evident arguments that their call practice maintenance fruites and effects are not according nor agreeing but contrary and differing to what the true Ministry was and its call practice maintenance fruites and effects were in the true Apostles and among the true Churches and furthermore by the Grace of God we shall prove their Church their worship and their whole Religion in all parts thereof to be degenerated from what the true Church was and the true worship and true Religion in the daies of the Apostles and true Churches of old and these things shall we make manifest by faithfull and sound arguments according to the scriptures that all the earth may know and all people perceive who is in the truth and of the true worship and Religion and who are in the contrary and whether the Priests and that which they professe and practice for Religion or the Quakers and that which they professe and practice for Religion be of God and according to him and whether are contrary that the end of this long travel and war and controvercy may be desided and justly ended between us and all people may be resolved and satisfied concerning us and them that do oppose us And let all the Priests and professors lay aside and give over their houses of correction and imprisoning people and whipping of them and stocking of us and dealing in this manner of violence and cruelty as for years by-past they have done in defence of their Religion and resisting of ours and let them lay aside their carnall weapons and fighting against our persons and imprisoning of us about our Religion and let them come forth in sound arguments the best they have and let us see what spiritual weapons they have to resist us and defend themselves let us try whether their spiritual weapons or ours be the strongest and the most powerfull and mighty let theirs that are so prevaile against the other be it ours or theirs and this is the way to try the truth and to make all things manifest and to deside and end all the whole controversies between us and them which hath been great this many yeares and let the truth be set up and exalted where ever it is and all deceit thrown down to the ground and let us war with the weapons of the spirit against errour and false religion one in the other but le ts not hurt creatures
nor imprison persons nor stock and whip creatures and make them to suffer but let us thresh deceit and whip and beat that and all false opinions let us throw them down where they are found whether in them or in us and let us fight with the weapons of the spirit that are spiritual let them sight no longer with such cruel carnal weapons and then let such as get the victory and overcomes appear to be in the truth of the Church and such as falls and is overcome be manifest to be in the error and of the false Church and Religion and let us love one anothers persons and let them act no otherwise towards our persons then we do upon theirs and towards them and let them take the liberty to deal with us and our persons as we deale with them and their persons and no otherwise And let such whether them or us that cannot prove ourselves to be the true Church of Christ nor of the true worship and true Religion nor in the truth but is found to be in the error and out of the truth let such deny their worship and Church and renounce all their Religion and confesse to all the world under their hands that they are and have been deceived and for ever hereafter stop their mouthes and never professe nor practice any more what they have done in such Religion And freely upon these Issues and conditions we will joine trial with them let them appoint time place and profer terms at their own pleasure and then to all the world it shall be manifest and to all people discovered whether we have not good ground and sufficient reason to war against these Priests and it may perfectly appear that what we have said and written against them these divers yeares have been upon a good foundation and we have had sufficient cause to speak and write against them as we have done and none thenceforth shall have cause to say or doubt that what we have spoken and written against them hath been out of malice or envy and without cause and good reason but on the contrary all shall know the ground of quarrel is sufficient and full of equity on our part And upon these or any equal tearms and conditions would we and are we willing to engage with these Priests and all or any one of these Sects in a lawful tryal in disputes or writings for the tryal and searching out of the truth and the true Religion And were it not equal reasonable that we had the same liberty among all these Priests and in their Church and Assemblies freely to declare our minds and to let forth our selves in what we hold and profess without being violently haled and beat and whipped and sent to prison as we have been this many years which liberty we do freely grant and allow among us to all to query or declare what is upon them without such violent dealing or whipping or sending them to prisons and houses of correction and the same and no other do we desire of others in this particular of freedom to declare the truth and what we hold then what we do and would allow to others and that no weapon be used by them against us nor dealing towards us but the weapons of the spirit the best they have or can bring forth against us and let them let creatures alone and not hurt nor do violence to them and no other weapons shall we use against them nor deal with them by any other thing but the weapons of the Spirit of God which is powerful and will bring down strong holds and as for creatures we shall not hurt nor do violence nor imprison them and whose weapons are the strongest let such overcome And such as are overcome is not the true Church for the true Church of Christ which is builded upon the Rock the gates of hell cannot prevail against and who doth overcome with such let it be manifest that God of a truth is with them and let them all cease to defend their Church and Ministry and Religion with prisons and whips and houses of correction for by such things was never the true Church Ministry and Religion defended but onely the power and Authority of God preserved them and resisted all their enemies and so it is at this day and let all cease to cry deceivers and being afraid to be deceived for if they be the true Church all or any of these Sects and Professions of Religions then if we be deceivers and come among them they cannot be deceived if they be in the election for no deceivers nor the gates of hell cannot prevail against the true Church of Christ nor against them that are elect which the Devil hath nothing in And if we be the true Church of Christ and in the election then if all the deceivers upon earth come among us they cannot prevail against us nor deceive us for the elect cannot be deceived and upon these tearms we may engage with any people and Sect upon earth therefore come to this and joyn with us take you the liberty to declare in soberness what you own and profess you shall not be persecuted nor your bodies nor persons harmed by violence and let us have that liberty to deelare in meekness and soberness and in Gods Authority amongst you what we hold and professe and let us not be persecuted and dealt violently withall and then let it appear whether we or our enemies hath a greater testimony and more powerful in the hearts of people And were not this a way full of equity for the tryal of all things But doing contrary as you have done these many years against us by violence and whipping and persecuting it shewes you have not the spirituall weapons nor the Authority of God with you nor among you and that is the cause of running to Magistrates and putting in Goals and whippings and all violence because the Authority of Gods spirit is wanting amongst you which all the false Sects and false Churches since the dayes of the Apostles have wanted to defend themselves and resist their enemies and so all sects have been fighting one with another and killing persons and creatures and defended themselves by prisons and inquisitions and destroying of lives and all this have been out of the power of God and not in it but by the power of the Dragon and of the Beast who hath caused all to worship and them that would not he hath had power to kill and hath killed them by fires and tortures and cruel deaths and all these have lost the spiritual weapons and been without the power and Spirit of God And what a Church is this of yours which hath need to be defended by Goals and prisons and whips and stocks and violent dealing this Church is not the Church of Christ for the power and Spirit of God defends her alwayes and not inquisitions and prisons and whips these are Cains weapons and
to the language of the Apostle and Christ who bid them be perfect and the Apostle spoke wisdome among them that are perfect and said they were made free from sin And it is the Devill speaking in man that speaks for sin while men are upon earth and speaks for the Devill holds up him who makes men not perfect which Truth makes men free again from the Devil and speaks in man and says be perfect Pr. He saith Christ doth not condemn men for being called of men Master and it is not the title but c. Ans Contrary to Christs words who saith be ye not of men called Master for ye have a Master in heaven even Christ and ye are all brethren And thus he tramples upon the commands and makes the commands of Christ of none effect which is one of the marks that Christ gives to the multitudes to know the hypocrites by and so doth not onely deny Christs commands but teacheth men to break them so crucifies Christ and sayes they are his Ministers but that 's the Antichrist that abides not in his doctrine as in 2 John Pr. And he saith people are tossed up and downe like a bundle of feathers and Novices c. Answ How should they be otherwise but be tossed up and down by you when ye deny perfection of being perfect and calls it the voyce of the Devil speaking that speaks of perfection and overcoming sin How should you but be the men that tosseth people up and down with every slight and blown up and down with your windy doctrine that is not perfect and so bring the Nations and people like unto waters For all the unperfection is out of Christ in the first Adam in sin and transgression and the Devill which is out of the truth and all the perfection is in Christ the second Adam the covenant of God out of sin and transgression and so who are in Christ are new creatures and old things passeth away and all things become new So in the second Adam in the Lord from heaven above the earthly the first man in the perfection out of the tossing that 's your imitated Church got up since the dayes of the Apostles not the true Church Pr. He saith a true Church is guilty of injury c. See page 4. Ans Contrary to the Scriptures where the Apostle saith the Church is the pillar and ground of truth without spot or wrinkle or blemish or any such thing Pr. He saith God hath commanded a sufficient maintenance in generall for Ministers and left it to humane prudence to judge what is sufficient c. see page 7. Ans By this he hath left the spirit to judge and the wisdome of God which acts by his commands and so runs into earthly humane prudence Therefore is there so much oppression for Tytheâ— and maintenance for Ministers and so much making havock and prisoning and persecuting for the same And the power denied which the Apostles had to eate and to drinke which Christ gave them and so you run into the lust for the money of whom you do no work for and the earth and whilst they coveted after that they lost the faith and that is the cause that people have lost the unity and run all upon heaps Their Teachers have lost the faith through coveting and love of money in which they should have had unity with God and one with another and have pleased him and had accesse to him and have given them victory over the world the Devill enmity and corruption Pr. He saith all that come into the world are lighted with the light of nature See page 7. Ans For so he calls the light which John calls the true light which is Christ that lighteth every man that cometh into the world so is ignorant of Johns doctrine and the Scriptures a man not fit to teach but is gotten up by an usurped authority and is not able to divide the word aright but with the Scriptures thou art corrected and the light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world the naturall lights were made by it the Sun and Moon and so forth And men that are born blinde are enlightned with that Light which was before the Sun was before all things was made which came a light into the world to enlighten every man that all men through it might believe Now all men may see how all men are mad against John Christ and the Apostles doctrine that bore witnesse to the true light and Christ bid believe in it Pr. He talks of and preacheth up an externall word See page 8. Answ Which the Scripture speaks notâ—ing of nor the Prophets nor Chrrst but saith the word that lives abides and endures for ever and of the Scriptures of truth that cannot be broken And of Gods words and Christs words and that is not external this is not agreeable to sound words that cannot be condemned but that is like his doctrine that knows not the eternal but the Ministers of Christ did not tell people of an externall word but an eternall word but you being made by the will of man speak to the people of an externall Pr. He saith He hath not seen God in glory nor any man c. See page 9. Ans We do believe thee and the Priests have not seen him but the Saints saw him and Job saw him and Isaiah saw him the Lord of hosts and Steven saw him and Abraham saw his glory and the Apostle saw him and beheld his glory the glory of God And you are as the Pharisees that stand against Christ that enlightneth every man that cometh into the world that Christ said never saw the shape of God Pr. He saith The word infallible is the pillar of the Popish Kingdome and the master-point of new Religion c. see page 9. Ans Now thou that calls infallibility a Popish point a new Religion Thy Religion thou hast manifested and thy points that are not infallible contrary to the Apostle who had many infallible proofs of the spirit of Jesus Christ they who have not are none of his and who have the spirit of Christ have that which is infallible and lets them see infallible proofs as thou mayst read in Scripture And who have the spirit of God have that which is infallible And the Religion which is out of the fallibility and out of the spirit of God is vain and there is thine and the Popes as your fruits have declared got up since the dayes of the Apostles in the apostacy fallible but that which is in the spirit of God is infallible Pr. And thou saith Thou hast no such revelation as the Apostles had as thou knowest of and the Apostles were brought to speak infallibly to the Church by an infallible spirit and thou nor the Pope hath no such infallibility as the Apostles had c. see page 10. Answ We do believe you for you are the false spirit you and the Pope that went
from them And is it not blasphemy for you to speak and preach that which ye have not received from heaven so ye have brought your selves under the curse and shewed another Gospel For whosoever receiveth the Gospel which is called the power of God it is immediate and by immediate revelation from God from heaven And so your Gospel which is of men and after men is another not the power of God received from God for whosoever receiveth the Gospel the power of God must receive it immediately for the power of God is immediate and that is the glad tidings to poor souls that sets the souls free which is immediate Pr. He saith We claim Tythes not by the Law of God but by the Law of the Land and Tythes seems to be Christs wages and Melchisedeck still liveth to receive Tythes in Christ c. Answ Christ is come the everlasting Priest-hood who ends the true commandement that gave tythes and the Priests that took them which ends in him Melchisedeck that received tythes of Abraham of whom Christ came according to the flesh And so Christ doth not any where to his Disciples who ended the true command that gave tythes give forth his Disciples an order to set up another Law in the Nations to give them tythes the tythes of mens estates and so you are none of the Order of Melchisedeck never come thither but of the order of them which Christ said should come who are inwardly ravened which John saw was come went forth from them the false spirit that went forth into the world into the earth and so ye have set up Tythes and Temples and Schools and Priests by the Popes authority Had yee not your Spiritual Courts not long since And was not the Pope the first author of your Tythes And are not you of that Order far off of that spirit that leads after the Order of Melchisedeck for ye are ravened from the spirit For none comes to the Priesthood after the Order of Melchisedeck but who comes to the spirit of Christ and these are Kings and Priests to God for ever So ye have received your Tythes after the order of that spirit that went forth from the Apostles into the world into the earth that inwardly ravened and went forth from the Apostles which the world have been after since the dayes of the Apostles and have had the sheeps cloathing but ravened and devoured the Lambs and worried the sheep Ministers Prophets and Saints So your Order will all men comprehend that be of the royall Priest-hood after the order of Melchizedeck to be come of the Popes stock for the Apostles and Christ did not set up Tythes Pr. He saith Baptisme comes in in the room of Circumcision and it is called the circumcision of Christ Again he saith that thee and thou is a custome So if any man be contentious we have no such custome in the Church of God Ans Circumcision is no where said to be a type of sprinkling Infants and that sprinkling Infants is no where said to be the circumcision of Christ But the circumcision without of men was a type of the circumcision within And that the Apostle witnessed the fulfilling of it in the spirit and so denies the outward And the baptisme of John was a type of that within And you to a particular which is your custome which the Scripture doth not declare to us that that custom was in the Church of God But the Apostle bid them keep to the form of sound words that could not be condemned Now you to a particular is not a found word as they can tell that have but read either the Bible or Accidence And there is no Heathenish customes comes into the Church of God that will spot or wrinkle it nor nothing cometh into it that is the pillar and ground of Truth that will be condemned Pr. And he tells us of a word Trinity And he saith the onely ordinary way to know Jesus Christ is outward Revelation and to attain to the knowledge of Christ is by the Scriptures and he may be a Minister of Christ though he be partly out of Christs doctrine and though he be called of men Master He saith the Scripture tells us plainly that Baptisme is a Christians circumcision Again He that saith that light which is in every man is sufficient to discover and lead men to Christ is under the darkness of his own fancy having so far left the true light the word of God Answ The light in every man which Christ hath enlightned him withall loving it and walking in it it is sufficient to discover Christ and salvation and they that be out of that be in the darknesse and fancy And as for the word Trinity that comes from the old stock the Pope the Scripture teacheth us no such word And none can know Christ by the Scriptures they testifie of him but none can know Christ but by Revelation flesh and blood had not revealed it to Peter and the Son was revealed in the Apostle and none can preach Christ that deny revelation in truth and they that are Ministers of Christ they be in his doctrine For when they are out of his Doctrine and his commands then they are wrong Ministers which ministers not for Christ but they preach themselves and are Antichrists transgressors And the Scripture doth not tell any where that Baptisme is a Christians circumcision as sprinkling Infants but Circumcision in the spirit and Baptisme in the spirit is all one in which the oâ—â—ward ends And as for all thy other silly expressions published to the Nation it bad been better thou had kept silent and all of you then to have published your shame to the Nation But your folly you must bring forth to make it manifest to all men whose eyes are opening Are not you in the Devils snare who are out of the discerning For you cannot tell what to bring people into alack for you who are hung about with rags and are not covered with the spirit of the Lord but are all from that which we are in and so hast kept people in darknesse and not turned them to the light being all ravened from it and so think there is life in the Scriptures which testifie of the life So I say search it and see if it do not testifie of the life And every one of your words that ye have all spoken that have not been from the life shall be your burthen the witnesse in thee shall answer it Thomas Weld Richard Prideaux Samuel Hammond William Coale and William Durant Ministers in Newcastle Their Booke called The perfect PHARISEE Their Principles as followeth Pr. THey say If they shall say that every man hath the knowledge of Christ by speciall revelation and that immediate by the spirit that which it quite contrary to the common knowledge of thousands Ans All that ever come to know Christ you and all the people upon the Earth it must be
that the Officers and Elders of the Church are to be ordained by a mediate way the power without the person government without governour is a meer fancy Ans Since the dayes of the Apostles that Christ said should come and inwardly ravened that went forth from the Apostles the false-spirit gone out into the world and the world hath run after them They can speak no therwise but of a mediate call and their Elders and Members are made mediately and so have all erred from the power and spirit of God of that which they call a Church and this is since the dayes of the Apostles For all Elders and Officers of the Church of God the pillar and ground of Truth they are made immediately by the spirit For the Church is spirituall else how should they see the things that are immediate or behave themselves in the Church of the living God which is the ground and pillar of Truth the Church which is in God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ The power of God rules and orders people when there is no outward government Nay it strikes down government of men and governors as in the days of Daniel and Pharaoh and in many other places of Scripture mentioned the power of God strikes down government and Governours out of it and this is the power that is honoured which strikes down false governours and Government and which is not a fancie as you ignorantly say Pr. And ye say Christ doth not forbid to be called of men master in the expression of civil honour and we will warrant a Pulpit from the Scripture Ezra's example and ye say they that stand praying in the Synagogues that are reproached as Antichrist c. Answ They that pray for mony and Preach for mony and get up a Pulpit and plead Ezras example They might have pleaded the Pharisees had the chiefest seat they are ignorant of Christ the Light and the life and the power who came to put an end to Ezra and the Pulpit both who Preached up and down the mountains and wildernesses and denyed the Pharisees praying and all that are got up there without the power and that is the Antichrist that is got up in the long robe and praying for mony and pleads Ezras Pulpit and saith it is a civil honour to be called of men master and so slights and transgresseth Christs Commands and calls it civil respect these I say are they that have gotten the sheepes clothing upon their backes but inwardly ravened from the spirit of God and deceives the world But now their hypocrisie cannot be hid but must come to light and be published upon the house top and give light to the whole house and not under the bushell and the children of light shall shine that men shall come to glorifie their Father which is in heaven and you Antichrists in the Apostacy has got up in Ezras Pulpit which comes to end Pr. They say it is a civil respect to say you to one Again Christ laid down the very reason why his disciples should take neither gold nor scrip but wholly depend upon the means due unto them for Preaching c. Ans When saw we the New castle Priests go out in this manner without gold or scrip and wholly depending on the Preaching of the Gospel Or when saw we any of them called Ministers of England do so go without a scrip depending only upon Preaching the Gospel nay are not there Petitions flying up and down the Nations to the Magistrates for maintenance enough to shame both Magistrates and Church and themselves too if they had any shame that their flocks and Vineyards would not maintain them to shame all the people that ever they have Preached too and make people so ashamed of them to turn their backs on them For they cannot say that they have lived upon the Gospel but they have lived upon the States and what they have got by ravening He that lives upon the Gospel gets a flock and gets a Vineyard ye are found in the Popes maintenance which is tithes and offerings from men and not in the maintenance of Christ which he allowed to his disciples whom he is with to the end of the world Now these are States Ministers made by man and so have their allowance so put in and taken out by men so are out of the allowance of Christ which he gives to his disciples whom he is with to the end of the world which you may see ye are out of the steps of them and will appear to all sober people to be the Apostates in the Apostacy ravened from the spirit of the living God and the power the Apostles was in who said have not I power to eat and to drink not great sums of mony Stipends and Gleab-lands and tithes set forth by the Magistrates And the Apostles often would not use their power to eat though they had power And never did any of the Prophets or Apostles bring up their people they Preached too with an hour-glasse no such form or custome or when any spake within their hour glasse they had a law to prison that is the beast that doth so that quencheth the spirit and is not the Ministery of Christ And doth not many of you shake the glasse and think the time long And you could not tell when to give over and you would run all into confusion but for a glasse And is not this carnal glasse your limit See how ye can Preach without it and so tell well when ye have done without a sickness in your spirits which must have a carnal to limmit them which shewes man hath not power over his own spirit And the power of God knowâ—s when to speak and when to keep silent And so all your Preaching by the glasse which is a limit of your earthly spirits which went out into the world forth from the spirit the Apostles were in which they Preached by but that which ye study out of old Authours the sheepes clothing ye sell yearly by the glasse Is that your measure The Priests measure that he measures out to people look in any steeple-house almost and see if the Priest have not a measure or it may be two measures a day Do not call this the weakness of the people for many people are ashamed of these things that you should give them but two glasses a week Now is it not more honour to lay by your glasse and come into the spirit and Preach by the spirit and so speak as it moves and gives utterance and quench it not in any and so that all may learn and all may be comforted in your Church and you to one is not a form of sound words so not civil but to be condemned and shewes you have not learned your accidence nor Grammar Pr. Such as trembles at the word of God and works out their salvation with fear and trembling is judged to be notorious bringing back to the Covenant of works Ans
became the Curse and tooke away the Curse who is the sanctification and brings the blessing and redemption by whom and through whom are many entered into the Paradise of God and have the right to the tree of Life And they are not come into this who are yet in the disobedience the unbeliever and lyar and reviler and whoremonger and Adulterer hates the light in the disobedience and cannot touch the tree of life for the sword turns every way upon them And as for all thy hard expressions and reviles in thy Book they come from the Disobedience over which the sword is that keeps it in awe over whom goes the higher power and that cannot touch nor taste of the tree of Life in the Paradice of God in the Ancient of Dayes thou shalt feel my words to be truth Robert Simpson Robert Parnell John Andrews Thomas Ewen Bryan Hanson and Richard Moon In their Book called The Church of Christ in BRISTOL recovering her VAILE Their Principles as followeth Answ It is a true word to you And that you are recovering the vaile more then the life and substance that takes away all vails as your Principles that follows in your Book makes it manifest Pr. YOu say Now the spirit speaketh expresly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of Devels And also of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things and draw many Disciples after them And they went out from us it is manifest they are not of us 1 John 2 c. Ans You have brought these words to shew your ignorance for the Apostles saw such as should depart from the faith and the false Prophets and Antichrists that Christ said should come John saw was come and went forth from them before the Apostles decease And they went forth from the Church and departed from the faith in which faith the Church had unity and this they apostatized from which since the dayes of the Apostles they have had the sheeps cloathing and so got up an imagined Church with a vail on it in the apostacy and these were they that drew Disciples after them which caused the way of truth to be evill spoken of and the seducing spirits and the doctrine of Devills have been up since the dayes of the Apostles which they saw come in before their decease and such went from the faith in which is the unity And thus they be in the enmity destroying one another persecuting one another prisoning one another about Religion and Church Doctrine and Scriptures and Christs and the Prophets and Apostles words which shew they be out of unity with God with the Scriptures and there you are and out of the faith that works by love by which they should heap coals of fire on the heads of all the adversaries And so this is the dawning of the day the ending of the night of apostacy you who be of the skirts of the great Whore are seen as you have manifested by your tale you have told to the world in your Booke who stiles your selves The Church of Christ which is made up by the Letter How want ye the life the Saints lived in that gave forth the Scriptures Oh! ye want the covering of the spirit of the Lord God And now are all your spirits and men departed from the Faith and false Prophets that should inwardly raven that Christ said should come that got the sheeps cloathing but inwardly ravening wolves whose fruits should declare them which John saw was come which went forth from them which led the world after them and the false Apostles and Satans Ministers and messengers which the Apostle saw come up before his decease These since the dayes of the Apostles have been the guides and leaders of the world and Teachers and gatherers of people into Names into Heads into Horns whereby one hath been against another that they have gathered people out of peoples and brought people to a head and not to Christ and yet all have professed themselves Christians So they have had the sheeps cloathing but inwardly ravened from the spirit of God and so have been Wolves cloathed with the sheeps cloathing tearing the Lambs to pieces yea and many Gaots and Beasts too sometimes which the fruits of this hath declared sufficiently since the dayes of the Apostles and in this Nation And these have deceived the world and have been the wrestlers against flesh and blood strikers at the Creature such as have departed from the faith ravened from the spirit went forth from the Apostles had sheeps cloathing such have been the Teachers and gatherers into Sects and Names and Heaps and every one will cry his Church his Church and all against the light which comes from Christ where the Church stands But now he is redeeming and recovering that which hath been lost since the dayes of the Apostles in this night of the Apostacy The light is come the night is gone the Lamb and the Saints are going on conquering and to conquer The Throne of the Lamb is set up and all those false Prophets Beasts Antichrists and mother of Harlots great Whore and Kings of the Earth and the Devill are making War against the Lamb and the Saints Now are all the Antichrists appearing and are in armes and rising against Christ and his light The Lamb is on the white Horse who slayes with his Sword which are the words of his mouth and the Lamb and the Saints shall have the victory Glory in the highest and rejoyce ye holy Prophets over her Pr. They say The mysticall body may sometimes be subject to distempers and humours and wants page 1. Answ Are you Judges Can you judge of the mysticall body which the Saints are baptized into Is their humours wants and distempers in the body which the Saints are baptized into Is not the wants humours distempers in your body Do you here in this divide the word aright Distinguish things in the ground and speak aright of things and yet ye would not be judged and say Judge not and is not mysticall spirituall Pr. You say The Scriptures are the word of God Answ The Scripture saith it selfe the Word is God Christ whose name is called the Word of God and the Scriptures are words the words of God the words of Christ the Declaration which the Ministers of the Word set forth which words ends in Christ the Word who fulfills them And it is called the Scriptures of Truth which cannot be broken and so ye do not speak as the Church did that gave forth Scripture And the spirit of God was the rule that led them to speak forth the Scriptures which brings to know the right use of them again Pr. They say To call that light in every man Christ is to slight Christs glorious person in heaven and to nullifie it Ans In this have not you shewed your ignorance And to be them that went forth from the Apostles and
Father as well as Master c. See page 68. Answ Thou hast in this denyed the doctrine of Christ and slights it who saith be not ye of men called master for yee have all one Master which is Christ and ye are all brethren And thou hast shewed thy selfe out of the Brother-hood and there is a birth to be born which can call no man Father upon earth which thou art ignorant of Pr. He saith There is lawfull respects of persons and it is said God himselfe is the respecter of persons and the Quakers overthrow all authority because they do not respect persons because they deny that page 71. Answ God is not a respecter of persons as saith the Apostle for his Covenant he gives to the Gentiles as well as to the Jewes And the faith of Gods elect is held without the respect of persons and he that respects persons commits sin and transgresseth the Law And so thou divides not the word aright Pr. He saith False Prophets shall arise and damnable heresies and many shall follow their pernicious wayes by which the way of truth shall be evill spoken of Ans The Apostles saw them come up the false Prophets that brought in the damnable heresies that was covetous c. and many followed their wayes And the false Prophets goes from the light that Christ hath enlightned them withall and raveneth from the Spirit and gets the sheeps cloathing and through their covetousnesse makes a trade of that and you are such which causeth the truth to be evil spoken of which are come up manifest since the days of the Apostles Pr. And the Quakers are not to be received into their houses nor bidden God-speed and such as creeps into houses leads silly women captive laden with sin and led away with divers lusts Ans The Apostle saw such as crept into houses and saw such as transgressed the Doctrine of Christ that was not to be received into houses and saw the deceivers that walked after their ungodly lusts before the Apostles decease and such as led people always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth as it is manifest now in the world they are learning 40. 50. or 60. years and yet there is a cry among them that they must have the body of sin while they be upon the earth and live in their sins and none can be without it and this is the height of your doctrine it leads too which is now in the mouths of all people that be under your teaching that teach that Doctrine and yet you will say the work of the Ministry is for the perfecting of the Saints to the edifying of the body of Christ till all come into the unity of the faith unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ And this work ye have denyed your selves to be in but such that are as Jannes and Jambres how should it be otherwise that ravened from the spirit of God inwardly that went forth from the Apostles that be covetous that keeps people alwayes learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth So you are them that keeps people from the light that doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world and keeps them in spiritual Aegypt Sodome and Gomorah where they be always learning having the forme of godlinesse and never able to come to the knowledge of the Truth and this to you all will be a sad cup at last And as for all thy lyes and slanders in thy Book which are not worth mentioning they will come sad upon thy selfe one day for the grievous lyes thou hast uttered in it unto the Nation which thousands in the Nation that are not under the name of Quakers knows and sees the contrary to what thou hast published but they will fall upon thy own selfe and be thy own burthen And then thou shalt say when thou feelst thy owne works burn thou hadst better have been silent and not have published forth thy folly and made thy name to stinke and brought thy name upon record who hath made lyes thy refuge but the haile is come and coming that will sweep them away William Thomas called Minister of the Gospell of Vbley His Book called A Vindication of the SCRIPTVRES and MINISTERS His PRINCIPLES followeth Pr. HE saith Christ directs to looke for life in Scriptures because they testifie of him and that the Scriptures are the ground of Faith and the Saints rule And again We are justified by Christ without us and not within us See his Epistle Ans The Scriptures many had and searched them and found not life in them for Christ is the life and if men have all the Scriptures and have not Christ they have not life And so Christ did not say they should have life in Scriptures but he saith they thought to have life there and they testified of him And they would not come to him that they might have life How ignorant art thou of the Scriptures and of Christs words to divide them on this manner And Christ is the Author of the Faith And many if they have Scriptures they have not the ground of faith untill they have Christ the Author of it and God the giver of it which is able to make wise unto salvation through the faith which Christ is the Author of For Enoch and Abel c. had faith before the Scriptures was written and so before thy ground was And the Saints had a rule before the Scriptures was written for the spirit was their rule that led them into all truth and to speak forth Scriptures that is the rule that mortifies circumciseth baptizeth and leads into all truth The Word of God that fulfills Scriptures leads into all truth that is the truth that leads into all truth Now the Scriptures cannot lead into all truth but it testifies of that that doth so And if Christ be not within people they are reprobates And is a reprobate justified And if Christ be within is not the Justification there redemption and Sanctification witnessed Christ the same yesterday to day and for ever Pr. He saith We consider how few there be in the Church that belongs to God See his Epistle Answ This is your owne Church which is not the pillar and ground of truth For who be in the Church of Christ the pillar and ground of truth where there is not a spot nor wrinkle nor blemish nor any such thing they are them that belong to God they are living stones built up together a spirituall houshold but this thou art afar off Pr. He saith We willingly acknowledge we are fallible men that may be deceived and to finde infallible Teachers is against experience None pretends infallibility but the Pope See page 9. He saith The Scriptures is the Well and living Fountaine from whence living waters have been drawn this hundred or thousand years page 8. Answ If every one that hath the Scriptures hath
it hath no unity And there is no true peace untill they come into the Kingdome which stands in joy in peace in righteousnesse Now where the body is standing and the root of sin in the heart not a perfect victory The Circumcision is not known that puts off the body the victory is not known while the body stands which the Apostle withessed the body of sin put off by the circumcision of the spirit which was in the inward man and he thanked God through Christ who had victory who was manifested in his flesh to condemn sin in his flesh that he through him became the righteousness of God And the life that he lived was by the faith of the Son of God And such as are made free from sin and dead to it and cannot live no longer therein these had the peace And such have not the peace where the body of sin is standing and sin in the heart there is the war But such as stand in the faith which purifies the heart and comes to witnesse the Circumcision of the heart they come to have the heart purified and the victory over the body as the Apostle declares Pr. He saith James Naylor deserved to be hanged page 5. He saith I tell my people they cannot be free from sin a perfect freedome from the being of corruption in them while they are on this side heaven pa. 9. And your speaking against Ministers and speaking in Markets is as bad or worse as to bait a Bull page 8. And he saith The Steeple house is the Church Ans The Ministers of Christ and the Prophets of the Lord which spoke his word which spoke in Synagogues and in Markets in high wayes and under the hedges and upon the mountains which disturbed the world and all professors upon the earth that had the words of truth which was out of the life and disturbed the Heathen that knew not God And all such Ministers of the Letter that have it and not the spirit that gave it forth are disturbed by the Ministers that be in the spirit that preach and speak forth the substance of the Scriptures And we know you and do believe you who saith your people shall not be made free from their corruption and tells them the Steeple-house is the Church and say the creature deserved to be hanged to be such at inwardly ravened which Christ said should come John saw was come and the whole world hath been after you that are wrestlers against flesh and blood and strikes at creatures in stead of striking at the power that captivates Creatures and so have kept people under the bondage of corruption and led people alwayes learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth and kept them in spirituall Aegypt Sodome and Gomorrah in filthinesse and telling of them the Masse-house is the Church the Steeple-houses Was it not a place for the Masse set up for the Masse with a Crosse at the end of it Look is it not on yet And is the Masse-house become thy Church thou mayst thank the Papists for that Was not the Pope and the Papists the setters up of all your Masse-houses and Colledges which have gotten up since the dayes of the Apostles among you inwardly ravenors from the Church which is in God and so have gotten up the Masse-house for your Church and there ye do keep up people telling them they must have corruptions while they be upon the earth So ye are Ministers of corruption which is contrary to the Apostles who said they sate in heavenly places and had escaped the pollutions of the world and they were children of the day not of the night and the true light shined So you that are ravened from the spirit of God have got up the Masse-house got people thither and telling of them they must have their corruptions and they must have sin and they must not be perfect while they are on this side heaven Now they can but have sin and can be but imperfect if they never came at you nor at your Masse-houses Now you are the Devills Messengers and Ministers that preacheth up sin and corruption and imperfection that people must be in and have sinne while they be upon the earth But the Ministers of Christ preached up perfection to be perfect and overcoming sin and made free from sin and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth from all sin and they had faith which gave them victory and the Circumcision that puts off the body of sin and the new Covenant that blotted out sin and transgression And such Ministers as you that make a trade of Scriptures as the Scripture it selfe the Prophets the Apostles and Christ doth make you manifest your fruits to be contrary to them that gave forth Scriptures So with it are you disapproved and judged with the life that gave it forth Pr. He saith And it seemes to me to be no more sin to bait a Bull then any other recreation And he saith The Quakers came into the Steeple-house and bid people to look to the light within them and to tell him that he was an Antichrist and blinde guide And saith I had rather be a hireling such as Christ hath hired in his Vineyard and receive a penny then some of the Quakers that go naked in the markets Answ The Quakers who be in the power of the Lord God have been moved of the Lord God to go into the world among Apostates who are ravened from the spirit of God and so are the Wolves that tears and rends and are ravening up and down for your Benefices and would eate one another out if you could and swallow one another like the fishes to the Sea Are you contented every one with your penny from Christ Are not you all fighting and striking and smiting and casting into Prisons for meanes for Tythes which ye do no work for Is not Christ come and hath found you smiting and striking your fellow-servants eating and drinking like Sodome and living in pleasure like the old world some having two hundred some three hundred pounds some lesse some more is here equall a penny Are ye like Christs Vineyard dressers Husband-men in the Vineyard Blush and be ashamed The stones are thrown now at Babylon and dasheth her children to pieces And Sion is building and the Tabernacle of David is rearing up Come up ye Saints and Prophets the Lamb and the Saints hath the victory And all those upon the earth and you all are the blinde guides and Antichrists who guides not people to the Light within and bids them not look at that but leads them from the Light within ye lead them in the darknesse and you are from the light in your own particulars and so the blinde guides for the fleece for the earth out of the Apostles Doctrine and Christs who brought people to the Light and bid them believe in it who told them the light that shined in their hearts would give them the
not worth mentioning but the Scriptures are owned And Iohn art thou finding fault because men wears no hatbands and eats and drinks bread and water and casts by their pride Now thou mayst see who thou hast taken part with and who is the scoffer and sheweth thy self and who is thy Master short of all good And as for all your bad names and misconstruing of Scriptures it will come upon your selves and thou hast shewed in all thy Book that thou art not able to divide the word aright nor an instructer of Babes Pr. And thou saith that Christ dyed for the sins of the elect Answ And the Scripture saith he was an offering for the sins of the whole world and who shall lay charge to Gods elect whom he justifies Pr. And thou speaks of God destroying men for their ignorance and they shall finde no favour in the day of judgement Answ Whereas the Scripture saith in the time of ignorance God winked at but now he commands all men every where to repent and every man that cometh into the world is enlightned And the spirit of truth shall reprove the world of sin of righteousnesse and of judgement which leads believers into all truth And the grace of God which brings salvation hath appeared to all men but they turne it into wantonnesse which is the Saints teacher And this shall make every tongue to confesse to the glory of God and every knee to bow at his name which is the Emanuel and so none shall plead ignorance as thou saist who art in the ignorance thy selfe but inexcusable because convicted and hast rejected the tender mercies who hast lifted up thy selfe against the Saints and the Lamb but a stone is set over thy head that shall grind thee to powder and the Saints shall have the victory and the Kingdome that is an everlasting Kingdome the witnesse in thy conscience shall witnesse against thee for all thy hard speeches and let thee know that you and thou had better have been silent then to fight against the Lord the Lamb and his Saints that 's the word of the Lord God to thee and you all When ye are judged the witnesse in all your consciences shall answer W. P. his Principles in his Book intituled according to truth that quakes not trembles not nor quailes Pr. THey say If the Apostles had been put to preach upon a short Text or methodically as by a long practice in the Church it is expected from us that they might oft times have studyed for it Answ In this you have shewed your spirits and made manifest you are voyd of the revelation from God and your ignorance of the Scriptures for the holy Ghost shall not speak of it selfe but take of his And the Apostles what they had seen and heard they declared And Christ what he had received of the Father he declared and the spirit that which speaks in the Church and it shews the fulfilling of the Scriptures and it keeps not people long in Texts as the world doth that wrests Scriptures up and down and keep people in sects and so there is the spirit leading into all truth and the spirit of the Father speaking within and the holy Ghost that moved men to give forth Scripture that teacheth to divide the word aright which is the spirit of prophecy in the Church not studying Pr. They say Every man that hath the spirit in some measure doth not attain to the great height and degree that they did that gave forth Scriptures that therefore may not lawfully and infallibly teach as they did Ans Every man that hath a measure of the spirit of God in the least measure or degree it is infallible and so far may they teach infallibly and know Scriptures but they cannot know all Scriptures but as they attain to the full measure of the spirit of the Prophets and Apostles and to the measure and stature and fulness of Christ and if they do not attain to all this they are not able to know all the Scriptures and the work of the Ministers of God was to bring people to this to the measure and stature and fulnesse of Christ and saith Let every one minister as he hath received the grace And take heed of any of you going beyond your measure and them that deny the grace of God appearing to all men cannot minister Pr. They say The greatest part of professors in the visible Church were and are always earthly minded nor can rightly value spirituall and heavenly things Ans In this you and your Ministers hath shewed your fruits like Balaams which withers and are earthly such as Jude speaks of that separateth themselves sensuall and had not the spirit but went forth from the Apostles that are got up since the days of the Apostles Church and Ministry like Priest like people and to be such as was coming up before the Apostles decease as he speaks on in Timothy which minded earthly things like Teacher like People that preach themselves thorow with many hurtfull lusts while they coveted after money they lost the faith and so came people to be all on heaps out of unity in the earth being out of the faith of Gods elect so this is all in the apostacy since the Apostles Pr. And he saith That he is not a hireling that takes wages The wages are allotted to him for his worke Ans But do not all you preach for hire and is it not for hire you preach Now the least in the truth may see you Is there ever a Priest in the Nation but he is hired to work or if he have it not he will not stay Now to prove that you do preach for hire where many Steeple-houses in many Parishes that hath no Priest thither you go not because there is but a little Benefice and they have soules as well as others and where there is agreement for so much a year thither you go is not this for hire and so the Prophets words fulfil'd the Priests preach for hire and all these great sums of money which has lifted you up and gathered a great deale of it out of poor mens labours this hath been the undoing of you all and Nations and many poor people because they cannot put into your mouths but now is God come to judgement upon you all in the apostacy apostates Pr. And thou calls the Steeple-house a Church Ans Which is the Church which is come up since the dayes of the Apostles in the apostacy for the Church is the people of God the elect seed which Christ is the head of who in the midst of this Church doth sing praises which is the pillar and ground of truth without spot or wrinkle Whereas the Steeple-house you call your Church will spot wrinkle and blemish and decay and fall down and wicked men may prevail against it but the gates of Hell cannot prevail against that Church which is built upon the rock Pr. And thou sayst Thou dost not
speak in that degree of the holy Ghost as the Prophets and Apostles did that spoke forth Scriptures Answ Then thou must take heed of exalting thy self above thy measure for thou canst not know Scripture but by the same degree of the spirit the Prophets and Apostles had Pr. And he saith He hath no command in Scripture to sprinkle Infants and he holds it not absolutely necessary he hath no command in Scripture against it and he hath a commandement of the Governors and so he is subject to every Ordinance of man Answ An ordinance of man that is not of absolute necessity consider what it is and that which the Scripture no where commands nor thou hast no example for it consider what that is and to say the Scripture no where forbids it it forbids all the traditions and doctrines of men so that is judged by the spirit of God that is set up by men Pr. Thou saist The Lord may give with the outward washing the spirit to the childe Answ Can man receive the spirit of God by following traditions of men and outward things Was not they all from it and from the spirit and doth it not judge them for setting up such things God never commanded Pr. And he speaks of Davids Psalms given to the world sutably Answ The world must repent and be in the spirit for it lyes in wickednesse before they can know Davids singing for the Prophet saith their songs must be turned into howling and Davids condition is not the worlds Pr. He saith men may respect persons in their places Answ That 's contrary to the Apostle who said God was without respect of persons and that the Gentiles should be accepted as well as the Iewes He that doth righteousnesse is accepted with God who holds the faith of Christ it is without respect of persons it is in the unity and they that be out of that be out of the unity So thou hast pleaded for that which art out of his Doctrine He that respects persons commits sin and is convinced of the Law for a transgressor as saith the Apostle W. P. thy works are tryed and weighed and found too light and condemned for the fire the witnesse in thy conscience shall answer but now in thy security thou art asleep but the wrath of the Lamb shall finde thee out And as for all thy lies and slanders thou heaps up in thy Book they are not worth mentioning but will come upon thy own self for they are thine own covering which is judged the witnesse in thee shall answer The Elders and Messengers of the severall Churches of Ilston Abergevenny Tredingnoge Carmarthen Hereford Bredwerden Cledacke and Liangors Meeting at Brecknocke whose Book is Titled An ANTIDOTE against the Infections of the TIMES Which hath shewed your selves full of poison and such as infect the Times but with the spirit of Truth ye are comprehended and judged Your Principles are as Followeth Pr. YOu say you are conceived in sin and brought forth in iniquity Psal 51.1 Answ David doth not say you who were conceived in sinne but I and W. P. saith John was sanctified from the womb and the Scripture speaks of such as were sanctified from the womb and children that were clean And so you do not speak as Elders and Messengers of true Churches or men dividing the word aright but you are one against another though you are all against them you call Quakers that be in the truth Pr. They say They observe the designe of Satan to cast down the walls of Sion and to remove the living stones thereof from the sure foundation the rock of ages the Lord Jesus Christ and draw them to build upon the sands Answ Is this like that the Elect should be deceived living stones should be drawn from the sure foundation the rock of Ages the Lord Jesus Christ for these living stones to be built upon the sand and drawn from the Rock of Ages this Doctrine doth not sound like men of understanding For the living stones are the spirituall houshold and the royall Priest-hood and there 's the foundation that stands sure the Rock the Devill is out of and the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it you in your Notions let living stones alone for none can pluck them out of the Fathers hand Pr. And they say No man can redeem the soul of his brother Answ Solomon saith the fruits of the righteous â—s a tree of life and he that wins souls is wise And he that saves a man from his evill wayes saves a soule from a multitude of sins Again thou saist No man the greatest of men can redeem the soule of his brother Ye should not have left out Christ the Saviour the Redeemer the man Christ Jesus the elder Brother so you are a company of blinde Pastors contrary to them that gave forth Scriptures Pr. To say heaven and glory is in man which was before man was they are sottish and blinde Answ There 's none have a glory and a heaven but within them which was before man had a being Pr. Wherefore take heed of depending upon any righteousnesse within you or any righteousnesse done by you Answ This is a strange Doctrine that men must take heed of any righteousnesse done by them or within them This is contrary to Scripture which saith the kingdome of heaven is within that stands in righteousnesse peace and joy in the Holy Ghost and the fruits of the spirit is righteousnesse and goodness and this is that which ends the righteousness of the Law and he that doth righteousness is righteous and Christ the righteousness of God is with them Prin. Man hath received a light from Christ as a creature but not as a Redeemer Answ That 's false For whosoever hath received a light from Christ hath received a Redeemer and a Saviour and he that doth believe in it is saved and he that doth not is condemned Pr. And they say If you love your souls beware of such delusions least ye perish eternally that say it is the true light that enlightens every man that cometh into the world following it it is sufficient to bring men to heaven which light is natural reason and conscience Answ The light that every man that cometh into the world is enlightened withall cometh from the salvation Christ which is the way to the Father whose throne is in Heaven and Christ saith believe in the light that ye may become the children of the light and he that believes in the light shall not come into condemnation All men is enlighened that through the light they might believe so you are not able to divide the word aright and all that be from this light are lo here lo there and so are in the natural reason and conscience which the light is not the light was afore they was Pr. They say none should never have known a Justification nor a Sanctification if it bad not been written Answ I do believe you had not
eight and that was before Matthew Mark Luke and John or any of the Epistles was written and as for the rest of thy lies slanders and hard speeches they shall fall upon thy self and be thy own burthen the witness in thy conscience shall answer me in the day of thy judgement And they that have not the Eternal Spirit are none of his Thomas Weld Richard Prideaux Samuel Hammond William Coles and William Durant their Book called A discovery of a generation of men called Quakers In it are their Principles as followeth Pr. FIrst That the soul is a part of the Divine Essence Asw That which comes from God which God hath in his hands which Christ is the Bishop of is of God and Divine and immortal which many of the Priests say is appetite lust and pleasure and the soul of Christ say they is humane which is earthy and so you that are come from one mother are not agreed here among your selves and people begins to see you the time hath been they knew not which of you to believe but now they believe in Christ who is the Bishop of their souls Pr. There lies a Mystery of iniquity for to say The world calls them so by such and such names or gives them their Christian name Answ There are names given by the heathen the heathen outwardly which men are called there is a new name which the world knowes not written in the Book of life here is the new man known after God in rigteousness created and true holinesse Now who is this new man and this new name the world may call him by the old So it is not a mystery of iniquity to say the world calls him so Pr. It is a sinful neglecting of their families to wander up and down And the forsaking of apparel changeable he calls it monkish holiness Answ When people runs into transgression from the life of God into the earth Then comes up the lusts of the eye the lusts of the world and the pride of life which leads them into all the fashions of the world which is not of the Father but of the world Now the lusts and the affections must be mortified which have outwardly transgressed the pure principle of God within whereby the minds hath gone out into the creatures and things without whereby it falls under the creatures and so comes to worship the creatures thereby more then the Creator who is God blessed for evermore being gone from the Principle of God in their own particulars that is it which mortifies the world when men turn to it and this brings off all the lusts of the world and excess and affections and professions whether they be such as thou cals monkish or notionists or whatsoever it brings into the possession into the life which mortifies for this which thou calls monkish holiness is like unto your own who have not the spirit as they lived in who gave forth the Scriptures so all holiness which stands out of that is self righteousness And the Apostles and the faithful in all ages that wandred up and down did the will of God spoke the word of God were commanded and moved of the Lord forsooke all for Christ Christ did not teach men sin And he that doth not forsake all is not worthy of him House Lands wife children whatsoever he that esteems any of those more then Christ he lives still below he lives still not given up he is not worthy of him and they that do not forsake all and come out of all are in the sinful neglect of the family of the Lord of heaven and earth and they stick below in their own cieled houses habitations nests holes and rocks falling into the mountains and there garnishing the Sepulchres and living in all fashions customes honours and pleasures of the world And the Priests work hath been this to teach the people to keep in the lust and not to forsake and come out of all their lusts to Christ who are not worthy of him and if any do they look upon them to be sinful neglecters of their family which wisdom was before all things were made and is the preserver and finisher of all things and not the destroyer but tha it rebukes and in this are men ordered to Gods glory Prin. The Quakers deny the imputed righteousness prayer baptisme Church-government Ministery Answ That ever ye five that are called Ministers should ever thus publish your lies to the Nation The higher powers the one government the Church the Pillar and ground of truth The Ministry that is in the spirit that Ministers to the spirit in the prison baptized with the spirit into the one body prayer in the spirit the Lords Supper who dwells in the Saints and walkes in them and Sups in them the Gospel the power of God imputed righteousness to the believer Abraham believed and it was accounted to him for righteousness and Christ come and Christ in you who is the end of the belief who is the justification it self and righteousness it self nigher then when they did believe And so here is justification it self without imputation the righteousness of God here the belief ends And all these things are owned according to the Scriptures but all such teachers that be in the earth and teaches for money and means we deny and baptiseth and sells your prayers and Preaching and Supper for mony we deny Pr. Will a discerning of the Gospel mysteries prove a power to discern the state and condition of souls what it shall be to all eternity is not this a large ignorance Answ The Ministers of the spirit did watch for the souls the Prophets and Apostles knew its state and knew Christ the Bishop of it and saw when the soul was in death and saw when God had pleasure in it when it lived and saw the soul in Gods hand for who have the mysteries of the Gospel which is the power of God which gives liberty to the captive to the soul and all that is imputed in man this is glad tydings to the Just this is a true work-man that divides his work aright and is not ashamed of his work of his building but presents the soul to God and knowes when it is in death and when it is living And so who are come up into the Bishop Christ they are one soul they know the hand of God which the soul lives in which is the power and so knowes it from eternity to eternity And so ye Priests which do not discern the soul and its state to eternity and from eternity ye are not in the mystery of the Gospel which gives liberty to it neither have ye it for ye are stumbling at the light which enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world which comes from Christ the Bishop of the soul so your darkness cannot comprehend that and so what fellowship hath the light with darkness it is not a strange thing It hath no fellowship with it for
Likewise he saith That which is contained in the Bible is spirit and life An. This is as much as to say that spirit is in the letter and life is in the letter now hadst thou said that which is declared of is spirit and life these words had been true and the letter it selfe death and the life was in them that gave it forth that is sound now the people have it among them as a general word that the Bible is a History or a treatise or a catalogue or calls it the letter these are the common words among professors and preachers now we say they are the words of God and a declaration of the Prophets Christ and the Apostles and Christ is the word in whom they end that is agreeable and according to scripture which cannot be broken and sound words Pr. And the words was confirmed to them by signes Aâ— Them that had the scriptures knew not the word by signes and wonders they were declared and signes and wonders shewed unto them that had the scriptures from the word now to them that had the sciptures which the word to them had shewed maricles when they desired a signe of the word he told them that had the scriptures no signe should be to them but that of Jonas Pr. And they say thee and thou to a particular is a proper speech but it is not a sin to say otherwise and so not to give offence to Jew nor Gentile but you is the nationall speech and the Devill said thou and Cain said thou and this was the bad mans language as well as the good An. Though the Devill and bad men got the forme of true words yet the forme of sound words is to be held fast and though Paul said give no offence to Jew or Gentile yet we do not find that Paul spoke out of the form of sound wordâ— as you to one and because it is a nationall forme of speech and ye not come into the forme of sound words which hath professed both Scriptures Christ and the Apostles which shew they never learned either nor comes into the practice of either you to one is not righteous and all unrighteousnesse is sin for one to say thou Henry Hager art many men would not thou say they spoke unrighteously now Judge thy selfe Pr. You call all men dead and carnall in the serpents Nature in what forme soever if they differ from you Ans All that be not in the light that inlighteneth every man that cometh into the world which is the way to the Father Differeth from us such be dead such be carnall in the serpents nature for none comes to the life but who comes to the light in what forme soever they be in and such as differ from us differ from Christ for none comes from under the Serpents head and nature but who comes to the light Pâ— Likewise he saith But for a perfection in glory to be attained on this side the Grave I utterly disalow Aâ— We do believe thee but a perfection in the glory is attained to while the Saints be upon the earth for they were changed from glory to glory so there is a perfection in the least glory and that glory which the saints was changed from into glory was not glorious but as it was in the perfection in the leâ—st degree or measure as it is in it selfe and so for the rest of thy lies and slanders and unsavoury expressions which are not worth mentioning will cloath thy self and they cover not thy shame but make it manifest they shall be thy own wounds in the day of thy indignation the witnesse within thee me shall answer and thy silence had been better then to the nation to have uttered forth thy folly and whereas thou speakest of the Church that to thee is a mistery which is the pillar and ground of truth but men have gathered together a forme in the apostacy and the seed in the grave since the dayes of the Apostles but now is the seed risen which treadeth such out and down that are gathered together in the words of scriptures but out of the spirit that they was in that gave it forth and that is the seed with which all the promises is to he doth not say it is to the visible Church but to the seed and who are of the seed are of the Church of Christ which is the pillar and ground of truth and so it is not the running up and down the scriptures from place to place and bringing people chapter and verse and telling people what the prophets said and did and what the Apostles said did so to be approved of in the sight of men but such are approved of in the sight of God as be in the life that they were in that gave forth scriptures and be in unity with the Saints that gave them forth with Christ the substance of them and with God Pr. He saith An Vnlearned question to askâ— whether your Baptizers cast out devils and drink any deadly thing and it not hurt you and whether the house where you meet was ever shaken and where he did give the holy Ghost to you Ans This is to shew that you are not belivers nor in the power that the Apostles was in and as for your saying rhe Apostles speaking wicked men should grow worse and worse deceiving and being deceived now since the daies of the Apostles who saw those things come up those wicked men being deceived and deceiving now since their daies it is manifest that they have grown worse and worse till they have grown all to heaps and killed one another about religion the whole Christendom can witnesse it such as have had the forme of godlinesse but denyed the power out of the power and life that gave forth the scriptures and out of the bond of peace in the poyson one poysoning one another out of the holy ghost that gave forth Scriptures and out of the healing and the belief that cast out Devils and the devill the murtherer but he hath been your teacher to murther one another about your Religion which did not Christ teach but to love enemies and to save mens lives Thomas Leadger his book called a discourse his principles in it as followeth Pr. HE saith Such be in an error that sets up a light within above the scripture or equall with the scripture and knowes no Christ but a Christ within Ans The light Christ by which all things were made and created glorified with the Father before the world began which the scripture testifies of is above the Scripture before the Scripture was They that be not in this Christ within are reprobates in which the scripture ends and testifies of and so it is Christ the same to day yesterday and for ever that the Saints come to witnesse within them not another Christ neither many Christs And they that professeth a Christ without them have a Christ without them and another
Principles as followeth Priest of Cockermouth in Cumberland Pr. HE said He would come to Christ and never own the light within him Answ None comes out of transgression to the second Adam but who comes to the light within which is the way to the Father and that is it which gives the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ which comes from him Pr. George Larcum said I would to God I had power thou shouldst be severely punished Answ Here thou hast shewed thou art limited and thy weapons and thy Armour and art not a Minister of Christ in the armour of God the shield of faith nor shod with the Gospel but such is the Priests and false Prophets who got the Magistrates into the forme that denyed the power of God on their side that they might be ready to help the false Prophets against the truth when ever it ariseth Thomas Warwicke Priest came to the meeting of those called Quakers on a Green and struck John Grave and plucked him off the Green and his wife struck and beat sore and drew blood of friends And the same Priâ—â—t said If the Law were rightly executed thou might not stand there it would cut off all your necks Thomas Dentham Priest called me out of the meeting to him and said he would stand to prove his practice and then he went his way and bade the people take me away hang me and at his words the people did beat me and pulled the hair off my head John Grave witnesse Answ You shew your selves not to be Ministers of Christ â—ut to be such that ever was out of the Saints life who was found in the spirit of murderers and persecutors of him you are that is out of the truth would drink the bloud of the Saints this is the mark of the Beast and false Prophets that would kill creatures and wrestle with flesh and blood Pr. That the Devill is a Minister of Christ in some sense Answ Christ the seed of the womâ—n bruises the Serpents head and destroys death and him that hath the power of it and destroys the works of the Devill and judges the Prince of this world and takes him together with the false Prophets and the Beast and casts them alive into the lake of fire that he shall deceive the the Nations no more and so he will not suffer the Devill to minister and thus the Devill and his Apostles are bound under with the Truth which he is out of Pr. The Scribes and Pharisees were Ministers of Christ in the same sort as Moses was when Christ commands to hear them though in a lower degree of manifestation Ans The Scribes and Pharisees were not as Moses for Moses was in the life and light with which he saw Christ The Pharisees had the words of Moses and the Law and Prophets but out of the life that Moses was in and the Prophets though got up in Moses Chair they stood against Christ and saw him not as Moses did whom Christ cryed woe against So they were not the Ministers of Christ but against him who was the end of the Prophets John Owen who calls himself a Minister of the Gospell his principles as followeth in his Catechisme which he gives forth 1657. Pr. ALl truth concerning God and our selves is to be learned from the holy Scripture the Word of God Ans There was truth learned before the Scriptures were written and the Scriptures of truth are the words of God which ends in Christ the Word and there is no truth learned buâ— as the spirit doth lead into all truth which comes from Christ the truth which was before the Scripture was written And the spirit of truth leads into all truth of the Scripture And many has the Scriptures but knows not Christ the Truth but as the spirit leads them and reveals them and so he hath thrown out Christ and the spirit Pr. There is one God in three persons c. Ans Where doth the Apostle tell us of three persons but tels us of Father Son and holy Ghost but thou out of the Masse-book and old Common-prayer-book who are the mutterers about three persons Pr. I am conceived in sin and borne in iniquity Answ Then thy Parents were not believers so children unholy for by nature children of wrath that is in the unconverted state in the transgression unbelievers for they who by nature are children of wrath are not borne of the believers for the unbelievers are sanctified by the believers else were their children unholy but now are they clean Pr. We have not kept the Commandements of God but are all sinners and transgressors of them Ans We do believe thee John Owen and the rest of you who call your selves Ministers of the Gospell and yet have not kept the ten Commandements and would conclude all men in with you to be sinners and transgressors of them Nay John was separated from you who said He that loves God keeps his Commandements But what are not you false-witness-bearers that calls your selves Ministers of the Gospel and coveters after other mens goods houses c Are not you committers of Adultery and stealing Are not you murdering men in holes for goods like a troop of Robbers as the company of Priests did in the day of the Law and Prophets Do not you live in dishonouring your parents and God and taking it to your selves And do not you all come short of keeping the Sabbath bearing of burdens making a fire gathering your meat when you should be at rest Are not you all taking Gods holy name in vain both in Pulpit Town house Alehouse Streets Market-houses and naming Christs name in your iniquity so not held guiltlesse Are not you all making Images and graven Images and hanging them up in your Steeple-houses and signes and houses and gardens and high wayes and things above and things that are beneath And do you think that people do not believe you when you tell people in your Catechism that you have broken all the ten Commandements when we see your fruits have declared it And are you not ashamed to set forth such a Catechisme who say you keep not the Commandements Pr. The Sacraments are the seals of the Covenant of grace Answ It 's God that seal's the Son and sent him into the the world and not outward shadows And as for thy word Sacraments the Pope was the Author of them in his Common-prayer book And as for the rest of thy work in thy book of Catechism is like unto the old Doctors of the Jewes that broke the commands of God that loves him not whom Christ cryed woe against S. Palmer and R. Hooke who say you are the servants of Christ your Principles which followes in a Book called The forme of sound words And who directs their Book to the Friends Neighbours and Parishioners of Gedling and Sowdham Pr. THat henceforth ye be not children tossed too and fro and carried about with
them you keep with clubs and staves lest any should be moved from the spirit of the Lord to speak amongst you from the Lord. And your Parishes and Flock which you undertake to prove to be a true Church alack for you that people should be so impudent to say these are pillars and ground of truth or the Steeple-houses be the pillars and ground of truth A company of Drunkards Swearers covetous proud persons given to pleasures you are like them that said they were Jewes and were not but the synagogue of Sathan a nest of unclean birds Pr. We expect not perfect unity till we have perfect knowledge and holiness Ans Have you cryed up your selves to be the ministers of Christ all this while and have not perfect knowledge perfect holinesse perfect unity The least unity is perfect in the spirit and the least knowledge and the least holinesse in the spirit and this you acknowledge you have not perfect unity perfect knowledge perfect holinesse and this hath been the cause you have kept all people since the Apostles in blindnesse out of the unity in that which is unholy who say you have not the perfect knowledge for the least of holinesse is perfect and in the holinesse is the unity in whith is the perfect knowledge though in the least degree and this thou hast confessed you have not and we doe believe you and so out of thy own words thou and you are proved unsanctified for who are sanctified have perfect unity perfect knowledge perfect holinesse Pr. I use notes as much as any man when I am laâ—y or busy c. Ans This is it which holds up your lazy minds which you gather out of books selling it again by the hour-glasse and make that day you call sabbath your market day selling both prayers and preaching who have not the spirit of the Lord to lead you to speak as it moves and to lead you to all truth as it did the Disciples so it is lazynesse indeed that hath set up your notes and reads them by the glasse for money and who have learnd seven years out of books Colledges and then gather up out of your authors books in notes and thus make a trade of them and then teâ—ls the people you are sent and it is the word of the Lord which it is but the reading of books and yet you tell people you never heard the voice of God if any aske you thus deluders are judged out of their own mouths who have a law if any are moved of the spirit of the Lord while they are reading their notes or speaking before or after none to speake against what they have gathered out of their books and studies which was not the works of the true ministry but the worke of those who were out from the true spirit and so were ministers of the letter and old authors and notes Pr. He saith They are unmercifull men that say more glorious dayes are appearing and that the Saints shall rule the world Answ In this thou hast judged thy selfe and there need no more words be spoken to it And the rest of thy lyes and slanders in thy Book which are not worth mentioning they will fall upon thy own head John Cole His Book printed 1658. His Principles in it as followeth Pr. IT 's a common thing for the young Harlot to say minde the Light within Answ The light which doth enlighten every man which cometh into the world all Harlots draws from and be out of it and such may beget proselytes and father them upon God which are not in the Truth but the day is come that all things are made manifest and by it doth appear and the light which every man which cometh into the world is enlightned withall is the offence to all the evill doers who be out of salvation and the Covenant of God and none sees salvation but by it Pr. The young Harlot can but mend evill old Adam by her exhortations and instructions and doings and threatnings and she doth fright some to her obedience Ans The Harlot is in that which evill old Adam is in in the transgression and so they which be harlotted from the spirit of God cannot mend and instruct the transgressor they themselves being in the transgression They may tell them of the Saints words and speak them as the Devill doth who is out of the Truth but thou John Cole art fallen into the earth and there art quarrelling And as for the rest of the stuffe in thy Book which is not worth mentioning but when thou feels the root and tree burn and fall into a fire about thee and thee in it then remember thou hast not that which doth not savour withal as thy confused childish workâ— do appear which in print thou hast published to the world Alexander Rosse his Booke which he calls A view of all RELIGIONS His Lies and Principles Pr. GOd is not in the quaking of the body Ans Was it not God that made the body of David to quake and Daniel and Habakkuk and Job and the mountains quake at the giving forth of his Law And doth not God say He doth not shake the earth but heaven also Now dost not thou manifest thy selfe to be one of them that cast them out that tremble at the Word and tells them that God is not among them And as for Alexander Rosse his lies and slanders in saying the Quakers said Christ had failings and distrusted God which thousands of thousands that can witnesse to thy face thou art a liar it is a sufficient proof to them that thy book is made up of such stuffe of lyes which is thy view from the Creation And the rest of thy Book is much like unto that and the false prophets studying a divination of their owne brain to get money by we deny but such as divide the word aright we own and all that pray and preach and sing for money and make a trade of the Scripture to get money by we disown but such as pray and sing by the spirit we own and all your Readings for money we deny but who reads freely we own and all your Seremonies we do deny and are come to the substance Christ Jesus before the world was made Pr. The leaves of a tree are not the fruits thereof and yet without them the fruit would not prosper Answ Art thou a fit man to give a view from the Creation of the World who erres thus in Naturals For pluck off the leaves of the Vines and see if the grapes will not prosper Art thou a fit man to give a view of Religion and blasphemy and errour from the Creation who art not able to give a true view of the Naturalls Pr. Thou sayest It is horrid blasphemy to say the Scripture is not the Word of God and to say the soule is a part of God Answ The Scriptures are the words of God in Exodus and the four Books of the
gift of God which purifies the heart which brings people to have accesse to God In that and by that which purifies men men are justified and in that 's vertue by the hearing of that men receive the spirit so that this is confusion and contrary to the Scripture and confuted by it for ye are justified through faith and by the spirit and that instrumentally from God in which men please him and without which they cannot therefore that is instrumentall and in that they have victory and in that they have unity one with another and in it have accesse to God But saith he faith doth not justifie instrumentally by any vertue that is in it any more then is in love Love and faith is one without faith there is not love Love is the fruit of faith flows from it without it there is not unity and without faith there is no victory and without victory there 's no love and it justifies and is wrought by the spirit Pr. A perfect conformity to the Law of God wrote in the strength and power of grace the spirit working all in us and for us and all this is no more then the righteousnesse of the Law Answ That 's the end of the Law that brings to the righteousnesse of the Law and to a perfect conformity to it and fulfills it that 's the seed Christ in the male and in the female by whom grace comes by Jesus Christ which brings to live in the righteousnesse of it which is the righteousnesse of faith by which the spirit is received which works all in people and for them who ends the Law The BROWNISTS Principles Pr. THey never heard Gods voyce from heaven nor see his shape And yet they affirme they have the same power and spirit that the Apostles had though much below and yet they have the Word abiding in them Answ You that never heard the voyce of God nor see his shape you have not seen him who is a spirit nor his power nor his Word abiding in you for who hath the spirit of God and the power of God and the Word of God abiding in them with the spirit of God with the power of God sees Gods shape and who hath Gods Word abiding in them hears the voyce of God for God is the Word and God will dwell in them and walk in them Pr. That they are brought to the Church that is in God the pillar and ground of truth where there 's neither spot nor wrinkle nor any such thing Ans And yet you never heard the voyce of God and how can you be brought to the Church that is in God and never heard the voyce of God for none comes to the Son but through the drawings of the Father and none knows the drawings of the Father but they heard his voyce The Jewes that came not to the Son Christ told them they had not known the voyce of God and none come to him but whom the Father draweth Pr. We do not look for any such thing as revelation from heaven or speaking as they are moved or waiting for the power as the Apostles did we say we do not looke for any such thing Answ This shews that you have not received the grace for the grace comes by revelation and you have not received the Son for the Son comes by revelation Nor you have not known the Father whom the Son reveales You are not come to the holy Ghost whom the Saints witnessed that led them to speak forth Scriptures which no prophesie of the Scriptures came by the will of man so you are among those men that have the Scriptures in their wills and wants the thing that the Scriptures were given forth by that is the holy Ghost for holy men of God were moved to speak them forth who learned them of God and spoke them forth as the spirit gave them utterance Therefore how can ye say that you are come to the Church in God and waits neither for the power nor revelation as the Saints did and were in for if you have all the Scriptures and have not that you have not revelation and have not the holy Ghost for the Scriptures are not known but by revelation and they are revealed by the spirit that gave them forth And though men have all the Scriptures yet the Son is not known but by revelation of the Father Pr. The Scripture is the Gospell the Scripture is the Light the Scripture is the Word Ans The Scriptures are the words of God given forth from the spirit of God learned from him The Gospel is the power of God the Scripture declares it A man may have the forme and deny the power and so deny the Gospel Christ is the light of the world the life and the light of men by whom the world was made and many have the Scriptures but denies the light the life and power of it Christ Jesus who is the life and power and the authority of them Pr. That they knew no law of God against praying and preaching by an hour-glasse and that the Apostles did performe the Ordinances of God at set times and Daniel and David prayed customarily and how this can be said to be will worship and to be seen of men we shall leave it to the Lord. Answ The Lord judgeth it to be will-worship that which limits the holy one to an hour-glass and the spirit of the Lord that taught the Saints to pray never limitted it selfe to an hour-glasse so you by an hour-glasse pray and preach as the Papists with their beads so that that limits the Lord to a set time those are traditions and vain customes of the heathen and traditions of men which alwayes the spirit limitted which spirit gave freedome to the just in every one which said quench it not nor limit it but knock down vain customes and traditions of men which was set up by men which had quenched the spirit in themselves and would limit the holy one in others and such were alwayes judged of the Lord and them that had his spirit to be Idolaters and in the will-worship and not in the spirit which are got up since the dayes of the Apostles John Turners Principle Pr. THat light which convinceth a man of sin was a wicked conscience Ans The wicked conscience doth not convince of sin then Satan were divided against Satan That which doth convince of sin is not wicked nor sin but the spirit of God the light of Christ Jesus that convinceth of sin and the Elect hath faith where faith is there is obedience The Ranters Principles Pr. CHrist without comes to destroy Christ within Ans Christ is but one and it is the devill that he destroyes and his works the Anti-Christ and not the true Christ the seed in male and female and it is the false Christ he destroyes in the male and female and he comes to end the types and figures and shadowes that people might live in him the
things to him in some things his minde runned out and that he condemns and yet these wicked men will go tell the Nation of it so what will they have more of a man but his life for abundance they have cast into prison and again these persecuting professors and Priests hath published in one of their books to the world of one Hugh Bisbrowne of buggery who had some time come to the Quakers meetings but was turned from them and durst not meet them for he had been judged by the Quakers before such things were heard of him by them and yet these filthy men will villifie truth with such things that they might make it odious to the world but the sober people see all these things is but their envie and again these persecuting professors and teachers hath put in their book that they have published to the world one Cotten Crosland and they say he was a professed Quaker and that he knew higher things then the Ministers and that he hanged himselfe and he was buried in a Crosse way and a stake was driven through him that passengers might take heed of Quaking This man I saw him once at a meeting another time in the rude multitude he was amongst the Quakers the first time he said little the second time he spak something amongst the rude multitude which the Quakers did not own him and he raised a grievous lye agianst G. F. and said he said he was Christ which was on a market day among the market people This is the third time that ever I saw him amongst any of the Quakers and he told G. F. he had witness to prove it and G. F. told him he was Judas And he went away and after a while hanged himself And Christ in the male and female if he speak he was Christ the seed and the seed was Christ but he did not speak it as a creature and here 's the Priests and Professors Quaker which turned against the Quakers and would have betrayed them but Quaking we own and trembling which you all must do before you know your Salvation wrought out with fear and trembling And a many lies you have gathered up together and stuffed up your book withall and make them your refuge and think the world will refuge under them but a lack for you people begin to see it was nothing but envy in you And it was known that Gilpen was never no long Quaker though the Devil was made to tremble in him And the Lord will reward you according to your work The witness in your conscience shall answer it in you all in the day of your Judgement Thomas Collier Nathaniel Strange Thomas Glasseys who cals themselves servants of Christ in his Paper to all the Churches called Saints through the immortal seed Answer The Churches and Saints who be of the immortal seed hath viewed your paper and your principles in it As FOLLOWETH Pr. YOu say You have taken upon you to speak to God though dust and ashes and yet you said you are Saints through the immortal seed Answ Thou hast forgotten what thou hast written before in thy Preface who hath taken upon you to speak to God though dust and ashes yet says through the immortal Seed such as be Saints though the immortal seed are not dust and ashes for the immortal seed lives and abides and endures for ever Pr. You say You have been bewailing Congregation-iniquity family iniquity personal-iniquity and close-iniquity for by your Search you have found Sion full of unsoundness from the crown of the head to the sole of the foot all puterified sores and now call upon them that tremble at the word of God to come to us Answ You have cast them out that tremble at the word of God and made them your by-word and written and Printed against them and the Lord hath appeared to their glory and what Saints close iniquity family iniquity Congregation iniquity and personal iniquity and Sion from the head to the foot all full of putrified sores and no soundness from the head to the foot and now do you call to them that tremble at the word of God whom you have cast out whom in scorn you have called Quakers will you now turn Quakers do you begin to be ashamed Pr. O come and sit down in the dust and weep bitterly before the Lord for your abomination you have but as it were playd with God you have not trembled at his presence you have been wanton before him and have forgotten what manner of men and women you were and thought no more of your prayers O how often have you mocked God how doth the world canker your affections while you have been asleep in the lap of this delia Answ Thou hast even shamed thy Church dost thou call them Saints through the immortal seed and say they mock God and are asleep in the lap of this delila and the world hath cankered their affections thou hast shamed thy Church and called them Saints through immortal seed and yet they must weep bitterly for their abominations and sit down in dust and ashes are these like Saints sanctified ones of the immortal seed or like transgressors the unsanctified ones not worthy to have a name to be called Saints for such as mocked God and was in abominations must lament for it was not sanctified nor was not come to know the immortal seed but the Saints and the immortal seed reigned over all mockers and such as was cankered with the world and mocked God and was in their abominations they came to reign over all that in the wisdom of God with which they ordered the creation to his glory you call your selves servants of Christ If your people be cankered and mockers of God in the abominations you have laboured in vain and shews you have not profited them at all but are the false teachers Pr. Thou sayest you have reigning abominations cruelty to servants and children exating labours taking no time to counsell them we have mourned that we have had so great a hand in this trespasse and not born testimony against our Ministers Answ This hath been your condition your fruits hath declared it therefore it is time for you to repent and amend your lives and doings and turn to the Lord for while you have time prize it for you that have stood against the Light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world are not of the Church of Christ for none comes to it but through the light Pr. Though slavish fear had stopped our mouthes until the mouth of iniquity hath almost devoured the poor Church of Christ Answ The Church of Christ is the Pillar and ground of truth it cannot be devoured by the mouth of iniquity the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it but through your mouth of iniquity enmity and envy you have almost slain your selves who is against the truâ—h turned who hath been slavish for it but against it mad in
your blind zeal the mouth of iniquity hath been open in you with all the world against the truth but with it in a great measure it is stopped Pr. The evils hath been so strong that they have wrestled all weapons out of the hands of Saints and Ministers that have been formed against them Answ These have been pitiful weapons that you Ministers and Saints have had in your hands that the evil wrestled them out they have been carnal not spiritual for the spiritual weapons the evil cannot wrest out of the hands of Saints and Ministers of God but with them they are plucked down his holds and high places and spiritual wickednesses the evil dares not come nigh the Saints weapons which are spiritual Pr. You say We desire no longer to rest in a testimony of words but take an effectual course that sin and sinners may be purged out of the house of God we desire the Church would set some days apart wherein they may bewail iniquity and pollution that Ministering Brethren would without respect of persons from house to house night and day bear their testimony to flie from those abominations Answ The Church of God you cannot which is the Pillar and ground of truth which Christ purchased with his blood without spot or wrinkle or blemish and the house of God you know not who talkes of purging of it who is established a top of all the mountains and all your abominations and pollutions and respecting of persons is out of the Church and the Law both transgressors of it and it is time to begin to stir up your selves and turn from the evil of your wayes and turn to Christ the Light who hath enlightened you that you may bear testimony against your selves and your Ministers and lightness and abominations in your own families and do not say it is the house of God and the Church of God but amongst your selves and we do believe it is but the testimony of words who have denyed the light and so denyed the power Pr. They may deliver themselves from the blood of souls having declared the whole counsel of God Answ Can dust and ashes declare the whole Counsel of God and cankered ones and pollutions and abominations can such declare the whole Counsel of God such be out of it for they that come into the counsel of God declares that and come out of pollutions and cankered with the world to him by whom the world is made who is perfect and makes them perfect who declares his perfect will and counsel Pr. Another evil we thought to have spread before you but wanting opportunitie shall now omit and that from Chard we have laboured in vain that which hath been brought forth hath been to little purpose Answ This you may speak to your shame and shew forth your own nakedness that you have laboured in vain and that which you have brought forth hath been to little purpose in this the Church of Christ believes you who hath been them that hath beaten the air and why do you Print abroad that there is another evil among you which you have not laid open had you not been better have held your tongues except you had mentioned it is not this Hams spirit who lays open one anothers nakednes to the world in Print but how can you do otherwayes who hath denyed the light that hath enlightened every man that comes into the world which comes from Christ Jesus and so wants the covering and as for all your dirt and drosse and dung which is not worth mentioning in your Epistle and confused words which you set forth thinking to your glory but it is to your shame had you been in the life that gave forth Scripture which the Saints was in that was of the Church you would have covered your nakedness and would not have said pollution was in the Church and in the house of God but for all these things you are judged and you and your Epistle and your words to be unsavory and is judged with the life of God that gave forth Scripture and them that be of the house of God and the Church of God where no pollution is nor comes nor canker the witness in your conscience shall answer it in the day of the Lord. By us Richard Baxter c. Pastor of the Church at Kederminster In their Paper called the Judgement and advice of the Assembly of the Assosciated Ministers In it their Principles as followeth Pr. THat ever there should be so much to do among Christians yea the leaders of Christs flock and to bring them to so clear a duty that after all there labour there is no more done Answ Ye have been them that God never sent and found to be such as Christ cryed wo against and so you have not profited the people at all And you have not been the leaders of Christs flock but been such as turned against them that hath been your duty so therefore be all the people on heapes Pr. That all men must know that we are Christs followers if we love one another for he that saith he loves God and hates his brother is a liar Answ In this poor men you have judged your own selves for is not debate and strife and vain glory and persecution and prisoning found among you Cain turning against his brother Abel and slaying and killing him whose blood cryes for vengeance upon you so it is a proof that you are out of the faith that works by love in which is the communitie and Love with God and one with another And so in stead of making up breaches you are wounding and bringing confusion being out of the faith and life that Christ and the Apostles were in so in heapes about their words Pr. It is not our business to change mens minds from infidels and heresie to the faith but to bring the Churches of Christ to understand each other to be true Churches which take the holy Scriptures for our Rule of your faith and lives and believe it to be the infallible word of God and this Rule is Divine so our faith is Divine had we but a humane Rule we could have but a humane faith proud men thrust their opinions into the Churches Creed Ans Your businesse it is true is not to change men form infidels and heresie and to bring them to the faith so not into the unity for you bring no people into that nor to the Faith and you bring no Church to know one another in the faith and the Churches of Christ knowes each other to be a true Church and you whose businesse is not to bring men off heresie to Faith know not the Church of Christ which is the pillar and ground of truth built upon Christ who is the faiths author and the scriptures which signifies writings as you say outward writings paper and ink is not infallable nor is not divine but is humane and a humane knowledge from it men get and so writings
Apostles and Christs words and minister of unrighteousnesse transforming your selves into the true ministers words whose soules is under the horrible delusions and misterious deceits under the observances oâ— the world who would beguile the soule that is not stablished but light is broke forth that few you can deceive and thy New-years gift is judged and proceeds from Cain and is his sacrifice from the earth for tâ—e Apostles saw such as was transforming into the false Apostles and false ministers he brings the saints to the light that shined in their hearts to give them the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus which you deny to the false transformed into their words and judged with their spirit which brought people to the light within and you bring them from it so from that which should give them the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Chriâ—â— Jesus Pr. The Devil is called the Prince of darknesse because he lives in the darknesse as to the apprehention of divine love an enemy to all the Image of God which is light and purity and the devil transformed himselfe into the likenesse of God under a faire pretence heavenly words selfe-denyall actions righteous conversations Answ This is like your fruits who hath deceived the people but is your divine love to the devill who is out of truth doth not Christ come to destroy him and his works and there is none that can apprehend the divine love of God but who be in the truth And the Devill cannot transforme himself to be like God not in his image nor in his righteousnesse that is out of truth and his conversation that is out of truth is altogether unrighteous and is but in the pretence of selfe-â—enyalâ— but is not the thing though he and you may get the words that be heavenly and stands against the light and Image of God and purity it selfe for all you be of the devil that doth deny the light that doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world for you come not into the truth which the devill is out of nor into the pure conversation which is in heaven and purity Pr. Thou saist Thou hast many occasions offered by the Quakers upon thy poor weake and sinfull heart the Lord hath filled my heart with moderation in giving my own once uncomfortable experiences Ans We believe thee that thy heart is weak and sinfull and a weak and sinfull heart is not filled with moderation and thy experiences which are uncomfortable are not the experiences of the Saints for the Saints experiences are comfortable and their heart is a pure heart that is filled with moderation and the Quakers will torment all sinfull and corrupt hearts for such the Lord is against and so be his Saints not to take his words into their mouthes Pr. Thou saist Thou hatest hypocrisie when thou livest in the light life and power of the first Adam and because the Quakers say they know my conscience better then my self I see they are acted through delusion I am able to to speak this truth from my own heart which is better known to me I do know that a naturall man may make a large progresse in the Gospel profession and conversation and that which the Quakers call back-sliding is my turning to my God Ans In the light and life and power of the first Adam as he was in the beginning thou art not in which he was in before the fall and the Apostles knew the state and condition of Jewes and Gentiles and people better then they did themselves and so doth the Quakeâ—s that be in their spirit and this is not delusion and thy owne heart yet thou dost not know as thou oughts nor the truth but first thou must come to the light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world which is the truth and a naturall man doth not make a progresse into the Gospell nor doth not come into the conversation of it whilst he lives in the naturall estate and thy God thou art turned too which is the God of the world as all hirelings and diviners for money and teachers for filthy lucre did that went forth from the spirit of the Apostles and prophets and Christ and back-slided from them and so went from the true God and thou serves the God of the world for love of thy benefice and see if thou will not look upward and downeward and curse thy God Pr. I would have all the world to observe how that the Quakers that Anti-Christ hath cast that blindnesse upon their understandings for their reproving men sharply and rebukeing them crying woe to the hypocrites it s the devils policy to keep close to the scriptures I used arguments to people to look for the glorious way and discovery of the divine light and power to be brought forth among all the children of the most high O mystery Babylon of this delusion Ans Hears thy confession for the spirit of God where it is doth rebuke reprove sharplie and tell them that are hypocrites the woe is to them and the Quakers ante-christ cannot blind them they are come from under his power and authority but you are them that cannot feare reproof and the Lord may send a man as he did Philip to such a place and he not know what he shall do nor whom he shall speak to till he come to such a place and the devil is out of the life that gave forth scriptures though he and you may pervert the words who may get them but not own them as they speak and thou calls good evill and evill good for the children of the most high doth waite for the most glorious discovery of divine light and power which delusion and mystery Babylon is out of and so the Quakers is come to that which ante-christ is ravened from with that they comprehend him Pr. And thou saist These people that thou callest the Quakers will send most rayling accusations against the pillars of the Chuâ—ch of Christ Ans That is false but antichrists Church and his pillars which are waters which you call tongues which is your originall that Iohn calls waters the Quakers do judge according to truth and declare it in full power and majesty and can make it good which you call rayling which they deny for a company of greedy drumb dogs can never have enough that will prison and pesecute men till death for speaking to them and for meanes such as are apostatized from the true church and is a false Church who hath transformed themselves into the true Churchs words but now the true Church hath discovered you to be the false apostatized from the true and reigned since the daies of the Apostles Pr. I see no conviction the Quakers hath wrote by their speaking or any subjection of fear or love or any such thing wrought by them and to tell such that be praying reading or in meditation to say it is the power
to destroy all Israel and all men upon the earth but thou errs in thy judgement and in thy understanding for I know it is the seed of the Serpent that speakes in thee that puts no difference between the pretious and the vile and when Israel thought Christ had called them serpents many of them were converted to the faith their outward creatures were not destroyed thou talkes foolishly and given up to the Devils power and who works wickednesse and mischiefe and if men be the serpents seed as thou doth say who shall be saved for the Serpent and his seed must be destroyed and if men be the seed of the serpent then must the seed of the serpent obey the spirit must not the spirit destroy him and the brightnesse and breath of the Lord consume him and it is men whose lives Christ came to save that are captivated by the seed of the serpent and redeemed and turned from the power of Satan to God and thou must be threshed and feel the weight of the Lords hand before thou beest humbled and what hast thou to doe to talke of ordination before man had a being in the world and would make men like thy self and say they are the serpents seed which man is not so as he is man and we and thousands do witnesse election and salvation before the foundation of the world was laid and are come into that which comprehends time and being which are since time in which power the elect reignes where salvation is known Pr. The woman that the Serpent deceived her seed breakes the Serpents Dominion Ans The seed of the woman doth bruse the serpents head where ever he is found in any male or female that Christ may rise in the male and in the female and this seed is a top of thy head and thou hast no power but to reach to his heel and thou art the house of darknesse and the seed is yet in Egypt not come forth yet and there is a strong man must bow himselfe and them that keep the house must tremble and hath kept thy heart from the Lord God and hath carryed it a whoring abroad and a stronger he is then he that keeps the house that spoiles his goods and takes possession who comes to rule and will rule and reigne Pr. That the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man in the Church to profit withall and not to every man in the world Answ The manifestation is given to every man to profit withall without distinction I will power out my spirit upon all flesh for the spirit of truth shall lead the Saints into all truth and he shall reprove the world and that which doth reprove the world is manifest to the world Pr. That no man hath received a measure of the spirit of Christ but such as doe believe in Christ and that no man doth believe in Christ but such as Christ is revealed to in time and that he is revealed to none but by the manifestation of his spirit Answ The true believers that believe in Christ the revelation knew him in time and out of time and the unbelievers are reproved Pr. Which of the people of God Prophets or Apostles did direct all people to a Light within them for their instruction and guide before the manifestation of the spirit unto them or the worke of Regeneration wrought in them Answ The Prophet said I will give him for a Covenant of light unto the Gentiles and a new Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah will I make and write my Law in their hearts and put them into their minds and this was in generall directed to them before they was converted and Regenerated and this light was to inlighten the Gentiles whereby the prisoners should come out of the pit where there is no water and the new Covenant was held to the Jewes before they were converted that all may see who can read but the outward letter and the Apostle was sent to turn people from darknesse to light and Iohn the highest Prophet borne of woman said that was the true light which did inlighten every man that cometh into the world which he was a witnesse of and shined in the darknesse and the darkness comprehendeth it not and Christ directed the Pharisees to the kingdome of heaven in them which were not converted read the pearl and the lost piece of silver read the talent and the pearle hid in the field read the slothfull servant his talent and then read thy selfe how blind and ignorant thou art in the things of God and be silent that thou may come to know the Lord and his feare that the witnesse of God may stir in thee that thou may do righteously in the fight of God and men least the judgement of God be upon thy head for thou art manifest to all that be in the light THE DOCTRINS PRINCIPLES OF THE Priests of Scotland CONTRARY to the DOCTRINE OF CHRIST and the APOSTLES Here all may see The Priests of Scotland and their Church and their Persecution against the Saints and Lambs Servants and Children of God which the Lord moved to go among them to visit the Seed of God in that dark wilderness-Country who has been as Sheep among Wolves Also How pure Religion is turned upside down and vain Religion got in its place And the pure Doctrine of Christ and the Apostles which saith Entertain Strangers Love Enemies is lost among you In stead of entertaining strangers and loving enemies they Imprison and Persecute and have made their Church unsavoury And the Teachers fruits declares to be false who are wrestlers against flesh and blood and strikers at creatures which Christ and the Apostles did not George Weare John Hart. William Grey William Lowry William Mitchell Richard Isamaell FIRST These Presbyterian Priests of Scotland which Excommunicate and puts out of the Synagogues knowes not the Father and the Sun John 16. so no true Christians for how can they be true Christians that knowes not the Son of God nor the Father Secondly They are no Ministers of Christ for Christ saith When they curse blesse ye so they be out of Christs doctrine and teaching not blessing but cursing and giving forth curses and all the people must say Amen to their Curses Thirdly They be out of the Apostles doctrine who saith Blesse and curse not Rom. 12.14 so are no Ministers of Christ that curseth and gives forth their Curses to the people to say Amen to them and here they are shut out of the Apostles doctrine and Christs all people mark and take notice them they are that curse which the Apostle saith Blesse and curse not these are the Cursers and not blessers that Excommunicate you out of the Synagogues Hugh Archball Priest of Stravan John Hume Priest of Lesmabaga William Hambleton Priest of Glasford James Durram Priest of Glasgow John Castaires Priest of Glagow Francis Ard Priest of Discert Matthew Mackel
they that separate themselves from the Apostles sensual having not the Spirit Jude 19. and are of old ordained to condemnation who separated from the light which turns the grace of God into wantonness so these are they that neglect the common salvation it was the charge of the Apostle to Timothy before his decease 1 Tim. 4.2 2 Tim. 4.7 Then told him perillous times should come and Doctrines of Devils and men speaking lies in hypocrisie he said unto them that they should trust in the living God who is the Saviour of all men and especially of them that believe 1 Tim. 4.10 But the Devils Doctrine leads them from their Saviour and from the grace 2 Tim. 4.1 And they that are not in the Doctrine are from the light which Christ hath inlightned them withall Io. 1.9 And have turned the the grace of God into wantonnesse and pernitious waies and drawes others from it and we do conclude that to be the Doctrine of Devills which saies God calls all men to repent and intends not to give them grace nor would not have them to repent as thou Henry Foreside doth say for it was the charge of the Apostle to Titus to speak sound words and sound Doctrine and could not be condemned Titus 2. and told him that the grace of God which brings salvation had appeared to all men which taught them to deny ungodlinesse and worldly lust and to live godly soberly and righteously in this present evill world these things speak and exhort with all authority Tit. 1. But as I said before ungodly men that turne the grace of God into wantonnesse are of old ordained to this condemnation and this is the condemnation of the world that light is come into the world and men love darknesse rather then light because their deeds are evil Io. 3.19 he that loves the light the light is his Saviour but he that hates the light it is his condemnation Pr. That the two parts of the Church must be prophane and godlesse Ans The Church is the Pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim. 3.15 The Church of the living God for the ungodly are out of its grounds and that which is ungodly the pillar and ground of truth there is no ungodly in it and the Church is without wrinkle or spot holy without blemish Ephe. 5.27 and the Church is in God 1 Thes 1.1 That which is in God is in the light and out of the ungodly Pr. That God before the world was had ordained one little part of the people for eternall life that sin or doe all the evill they could they could not loose that which was ordained for them Here thou goest about to make Christ a lyer for he that commits sin is the servant of sin Io. 8.34 saith He that commits sin is of the Devill saith the Apostle and thou wouldest make God partiall and hast taught a doctrine contrary to the scriptures For God is no respecter of persons Rom. 2.11 Who will give to every one a reward according to their works Psalm the 62.12 And he that workes iniquity must depart cursed from Christ Mat. 7.23 and Mat. 25.41 And he that sinneth after he hath received the truth there remaines no more sacrifice for sin but a fearefull looking for of Judgement Heb. 10.27 And the elect doth not commit sin and who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods Elect Rom. 8.33 and the Elect is Christ Isa 42.1 who was elected before the world was he that is borne of God doth not commit sin neither can he because his seed remaines in him 1 Io. 3.9 And he that commits sin is of the devill and never knew God ver 6. And here is the children of God manifest and the children of the Devil 1 Io. 3 10. And God hears not sinners and them that regard iniquity Psal 66.18 Io. 9.31 Prov. 15.8 Pr. That the great part of the world was ordained for Hell that repent or doe all that they are commanded to doe they would not obtaine salvation because God had Ordained them to Hell Ans Then he was asked wherefore he preached His answer was to save the elect he was answered again if it was so there was no need of that seeing they could not be lost Then he was asked before he preached to them that were ordained to Hell he answered to make their damnation hotter it was answered them again that they had small friends of them and they could not make is hotter seeing they were ordained before the Priest aforesaid was asked who had the blame that men went to Hell His answer was Seeing ye desire to know I shall tell you there is one part of the blame in man and another part of the blame in the Almighty that men went to Hell Ans In this here is confusion thou saist God hath ordained them thou saiest God has done it then marke then thou sayest there is part in man and thou sayest before it was in God now if it be in God as thou saist that he hath ordained them to hell repent or doe all that they are commanded to doe thy preaching is needlesse and thou cannot adde to Hell hotter or colder Therefore thy preaching is done and ceased And thou saist part of the blame that men goe to hell is in God here thou wouldest make God unrighteous who desires not the death of a sinner God is not to be blamed in any thing he doth but praised and righteous in all his judgements and God is not to be blamed for God is truth so let God be true and every man a lyer Rom. 3.4 thou wicked one mans destruction is of himselfe Hosea 13.9 and God wills not the death of a sinner but rather that he would repent so no fault in God who saith let the unrighteous man forsake his unrighteousnesse and he shall live so let the righteous man forsake his righteousnesse and he dies Ezek. 18.22 So my waies are equall the Lord hath no pleasure at all that the wicked should dye but that he should return and live so mans destruction is of him selfe And whereas thou saist God hath ordained a great part to Hel what makest thou of Christ who came to be a Saviour of the world Io. 4.42 he doth not say the Elect onely but to save the world and not to condemn it and God so loved the world marke the words Je. 3.19 he doth not say so hated it that he gave his onely begotten Son into the world that whosoever believed in him should not perish but have everlasting life and he came not to condemn the world but that the world through him might have life but they that hate the light and doe not believe in it are with the light condemned but thou sayest otherwise that he condemns a great part of the world and he doth not say he loves the Elect onely but God so loved the world and God was in Christ reconciling the the World to himselfe 2 Cor. 5.19 he
him by true faith Ans Salvation is purchased to all men that perished in Adam though they do not believe it for he is the Saviour of all men especially of them that do believe and an offering for the sin of the whole world mark the world and doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world that all through him might believe and he that believes not is condemned by Christ the light the life the sacrifice the offering that through death that which in them was the power of death the Devill he destroyed and his power and so entred into his glory all that believe in him have life and all that doth not and receive him not hath not life but are condemned through unbelief Now if if you say that in Adam all dyed I say yes and in Christ all shall be made alive to the Justification of life I say yes as in Adam all dyed as in Christ they come to be made alive so them that are the believers are the holy so the believers children a new creation a new generation new creatures out of Adam in the fall the believers passed from death to life that came by Adam and so in that is a cleane creation and holy generation Pr. All things contained in the Gospell is summed up in the Apostles Creed Ans The Apostles doth not tell us of a creed but the Popes Canon-book and common prayer book and many things the Apostles had to say which was not lawfull to utter and many things Christ had to say they could not beare but the Gospell is the power of God and that the scripture speakes of but doth not say the Epistles is it Pr. God hath manifested himselfe in his word that these three distinct persons are one Ans The word nor the scripture doth not tell us of three distinct persons but it tells us of Father and of Son and of Holy Ghost but indeed as I said before the Popes canon book and Masse-book doth so for the Holy Ghost is not distinct from the Son and the Son is not distinct from the Father but they are all in one Pr. Having our chief hope placed in God being assured that nothing may with draw us from his love Ans Yet you say you are not able to keep the commandements of God perfect then you are drawne from the living God and you are from the chiefest hope Christ for who loves God keepes his commandements and such have the chiefest hope Christ in which the commandement ends here the love goes forth out of the pure heart but is not riches your hope and doth not riches and the glory of the world and the fashions thereof drew your hearts away and your love and hope stand in them and hath taken up the possession of your hearts more then God therefore who keeps them not perfectly keeps them not at all Pr. You say Christ hath ransomed your bodies and your soules from sin and by that one sacrifice of his body he hath redeemed you Ans Are your bodies redeemed and your soules that are immortall and your spirits sanctified and do you glorifie God in your bodies soules and spirits which is the Lords and is there not sin in your bodies and are not your spirits corrupted now who witnesses redemption of the body and soule from sin these are out of the first Adams state and are the holy ones and these be in the end of the law and that which fulfills the Law Christ Jesus but now if you come to say that you have sin in your bodies and the fruits will shew it selfe to persecute or envy rage malice pride or such wickednesse this shewes not the fruits of Redemption Pr. You say That God in Christ hath put out the remembrance of your sins and of your corruptions within you wherein you must fight all your life time Ans Whilst the sins you are fighting withall are not blotted out in your own particulars this is not the life of the Saints they are not fighting all their life time but come to the kingdome of God witnessing sin and iniquity blotted out the everlasting covenant of peace and life with God Pr. You say You are righteous before God through faith though your consciences accuse you for your trespasses against the commands of God being prone to evil yet notwithstanding imbrace the benefits of Christ as if you never had committed any sin or corruption and this is as if you your selves had perfectly compleated the obedience Ans Where the conscience accuses it is impure and that the true faith is out of for the mystery of faith is held in a pure conscience and that is it that receives Christ and which is not prone to evil nor transgresseth the commands of God but you are out of the perfect obedience and out of the faith both and are in the corruption are not the lovers of God nor come to Christ the end of the commandements which is loved in a pure heart and whereas you talke of conscience accusing and yet faith that is your ignorance for faith is held in a pure conscience the conscience doth not accuse but the unsanctified Pr. Not that we please God through the worthinesse of our faith for our works the best of them are imperfect in this life defiled with sin Ans It is faith that brings men to please God which Faith comes from him and gives victory over that men have lived in and not pleased God so faith there is a worthinesse in it it is the gift of God by which men please God and have accesse to to him and they are justified and through it they overcome and subdue mountaines and raise the dead your best workes being imperfect and defiled with sin in this life then they are not wrought in God but out of him in the darknesse they are works of darknesse unperfect defiled with sin are not the workes of darknesse to be condemned for the fire and to be out of the Law and Gospell but the works the Saints works that are in the Faith wrought in love are perfect wrought in God created to good works these are distinct from the unperfect defiled with sin and these good workes the Saints witnessed when they were upon the earth which is the works of Faith which works by love Ans Infants that are baptized belong as well to the covenant and Church of God as they of full age they by baptism being grafted into the Church of God so discerned from the children of Infidels so this baptisme succeeds Circumcision Answ Then by this all Christendom that are baptized are the Church and grafted into the Church Papists and Protestants and all and how is it that your Church is so much in confusion then for you say they are grafted into the Church of God and in the Church of God there is no confusion it is the Pillar and ground of truth without spot or wrinkle and how is it there is such killing
people and suffer it not to have liberty do you not do murther to the just of God in you in your own particulars and so then stop it in the general for opening its mouth with all your force and might and are you not murtherers there and do you not steal by Sea and Land and cozen and cheat and wrong one another nay do you not steal the words from your neighbour and the Prophets and the Apostles and Christ which you never came into the life of is not this called theft and robbery for you have not received it from the Lord God as Prophets as Apostles as his Son did and servants did so all your profession Church and Ministery stand in the robbery and have not received it as they did as the true Apostles and Prophets did and Ministers did ye all stand in the robbery and do not you covet your neighbours goods Oxen Cattel and servants and wife and one getting from another goods and getting servants one from another is not this out of the love in which the Commandment ends where there is serving one another in love and is not all covetous Idolaters out of the love shut in which the Commandment ends and hath not this been the practice in the whole Christendom coveting mens goods servants cattel and that which is not his is not that out of the Law and Gospel and out of a pure heart where the Commandment is done and known and that which it ends in is in Christ and love keepes the Commands of Christ they that love do not covet and they are not Idolaters Pr. We are not to make any images to be tollerated in the Churches and Chappels or figures of things made for it is not seemly for God will have his Church be taught by living Preaching Answ How is it that your Churches so called are so full of Pictures and images of Males and Females representing a figure of Adam and Eve the Apostles and Christ and your houses and signs of fish in the Sea and Lyons and others creatures upon the earth and of things as you imagine in heaven are not all these your inventions your works and inventions you have learned of the Papists and they from the heathen not from the Apostles and you have daubed your Churches and them flourished with your Pictures these things you call your Churches but the Church is in God which the gates of Hell cannot prevail against but a showre of rain or an earthquake or a great wind will prevail against your Church and the devil may come with his carnal weapons and throw it down but the Church of Christ the Pillar of truth is that the devil is out of Pr. You say a man may swear before a Magistrate and that this kind of swearing is ordained by Gods word therefore well used of the Saints and it is not lawful to swear by the Saints or other creatures Answ Here ye be out of the Doctrine of Christ who saith swear not at all and out of the Magistrates state the Apostle speaks of and out of Christs Doctrine and the Apostles and hath broken the commands of Christ and the Apostles Doctrine which saith swear not at all so you wrong Christ Jesus and the word of God you deny and though Abraham swear and Jacob and Joseph sware the Prophets and Moses swear David swore and the Angels swore and men in strife swear by the greater and the oath ended the strife and controversie amongst men yet Christ saith before Abraham was I am he reigns over the house of Joseph and Jacob he is the end of the Prophets he is the end of Moses he is the end of men of strife and brings peace on the earth the Angels must bow down to him that saith swear not at all who was before Abraham was and David called him Lord who was greater then Solomon and this is my beloved Son hear ye him now which of you hear him they said in the old time perform thy vows to the Lord this was the old time the day of Abraham David Prophets Moses Solomon but Christ who was before all time by whom all things was made the oath of God ends the time and saith swear not at all so doth his true Ministers and the Apostles above all things my brethren swear not at all neither by heaven nor by earth lest you fall into condemnation now here were true brethren that kept the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles and his commands which swearers break which are got up since the dayes of the Apostles which are the false brethren Apostatized from the true so now the fruits of false and true brethren are seen who keep the commands of Christ and walk in the Doctrine of the Apostles and who doth not Pr. You say That in the fourth Commandment God doth command that the Ministers of the Gospel and the Schools of Learning should be maintained and that on the Sabbath frequent studiously Divine Assembles hear the word diligently using the Sacraments Ans Your Schools your Sacraments your Sabbath your Studies by men you have made these since the Apostles your Ministers at your Schools and not by the Lord but among your selves Apostatized from his spirit for the Apostles had not Shools and the Apostles said let no man judge you in meats or drinks new Moons and Sabbath dayes c. for the body is Christ and he brought them off of these services to Christ the substance the body who ended the Sabbath days and the offerings upon them who was before dayes who is the rest for his people and did not bring people into dayes but into Christ by whom all things was made who was Lord of the Sabbath and such meet on the first day of the week and are taught of God and out-strip all your Teachers made in Schools and learnings of men and so not of man nor by man but the outward Schools are of men and by men Pr. You say The fifth Commandment injoyns you to yield obedience to the faithful commandments of them that be over you and the Catechisme Ans The fifth Commandment brings that men should obey the command of God not of men nor the Catechisme nor such stuff as is in this Catechisme but who are come to Christ the end of the Commandments the end of the Law him by whom the world was made and was before it was made is enjoyed Pr. You say The meaning of the seventh Commandment Is that you should live temperate modest and chaste and holy in Wedlock Answ Is this so have you not broken Wedlok both with God and man and lost the chaste Virgin state and so gotten up into intemperate immodest unchastness into uncleanness and filthiness and so shew by your fruits that you neither come to keep this Commandment nor to Christ the end of it Pr. You say The eighth Commandment doth not only forbid robbery but covetousness after other mens goods evil witchcraft devices to
Church of Christ nor you Christs faithful Ministers but where or what is the ground of this ignorance that is amongst your hearers is not the Ministry in a great measure the cause thereof and doth not the blind lead the blind and have not you been unjust and unrighteous in taking money and wages of People for teaching of them and yet they have not received knowledge but continues in ignorance and as for your prayers and councel the Lord takes no notice thereof till you purge your selves of your iniquities and how should you profit the people and bring them to the knowledge of God while as yet your selves are shut up in a cave of darkness as you do confesse Pr. Speaking of your children you say do not they come into the woâ—ld with souls naked as their bodies nothing but filth upon the one and nothing but sin upon the other Answ It is manifest then that you are unbelievers and have not received the faith of Christ but are your selves in an unconverted estate for the Apostle saith concerning the believers children that they were holy If you can receive it you may but as for the soul that is immortal for God breathed into man the breath of life and made man a living soul and sin came by disobedience and that separates between man and God who is pure and hath all souls in his hand but as for you who are in a Cave of darkneâ—s the mystery of the soul is from you hidden but you confess it is by your means that sin is conveyed to your children yea take it to your selves it is your work and the Lord hath no hand in it not in sin nor in making sinners and it is manifest you are out of the power of God remaining in iniquity and are our of the Covenant of reconciliation Pr. For sending children to us we shall briefly offer the duty of it in these particulars we are to feed the Lambs of Christ as well as the sheep they are part of our charge who are to watch over souls Answ What are children now the Lambs of Christ and were they in the last having nothing but sin upon their souls being begotten and born in sin sinners are not the Lambs of Christ but children of wrath the Lambes of Christ are such as are regenerated and born again and as for feeding the Lambs how can ye do it who are taking substance to be shadowes and shadowes to be substance the bread of life ye know not which feeds the Lambs and the sheep but how many sheep and Lambs is found in your flocks do not they by their fruits the rather appear to be in the nature of of wolves and swine let their fruits witness against them and as for your charge who committed any charge to you and as for watching over the soul the soul is immortal which you watch not for but for money and hire and casting People into prison if they will not give it you and causing the servants of the Lord to be persecuted these and such like are the fruits of the Priests of England which if you watched for the soul It would be otherwise with you but who can gather grapes on thorns or figgs on thistles Pr. We should be full of affection to our selves if we desired to work upon our hearers and our Authority in Preaching is marred by unholy living Answ We do believe you and it is manifest to the whole nation that your unholy living marrs your Preaching for unholy men have not received commission from the Lord to Preach his word so you have run and not been sent and there is no possibility of working upon your hearers by words who gives them so evil examples by your practices by your unholy lives and no Authority of Gods presence can be in your Preaching to convert sinners till you repent and come to live holily and like God and this confession of yours hath shamed you for Christs Ministers never made such a confession but they witnessed the Authority of Gods presence in their Preaching whereby they wrought upon their hearers and they answered their Preaching by a holy conversation and did not marr their Preaching by unholy living as ye confesse ye do Pr. Sad one day will be the account of sleepy watchmen blind seers and dumb dogs that cannot bark to fright the wolves or warn the sheep Ans Then look to your selves for blind seers are such as doth not convert the People who speak imaginations of their own hearts and not from the mouth of the Lord and useth their tongues when the Lord hath not spoken unto them and Preaching for hire and devining for money and seeking for gain from their Quarter and that cryes peace to them that puts into their mouthes and prepares war against them which doth not such are blind seers sleepy watchmen and dumb doggs of whom you speak whose account indeed will be sad one day and these are the wolves that must be frighted that do put on the sheepes clothing but inwardly are Raveners and devourers which went out from the Apostles in the dayes of John and which Christ prophesied should come of whose generation you are and not of the generation of the sheep who ever were persecuted and the Lord is beginning to affright you and to gather his sheep and this is the Lord fulfilling in his day Pr. Many Congregations still continue waste none compassionate to tell them of the fire and brimstone from heaven for their sins how many shot off a few Pot-guns against their gross sins and then lick them whole with ill applyed promises but the blood of the People shall be required at their hands Answ Many Congregations are waste and ten thousands of People are as a wilness untilled or unploughed or unplanted in the way of Righteousness and the guilt of this will be laid upon the Teachers who have long been teaching and well paid for the work and yet left whole Congregations waste but it was not so in the Apostles days nor among their Churches who were in the faith of Christ Jesus but when the wolves in sheeps cloathing entred then began Congregations to lie waste which has continued for many generations even while the Beast and the Whore hath ruled over the Nations all Nations hath laid waste and been void of truth to the Lord and who is it except your selves that doth shoot Potguns against their grosse sins and then lick them whole is it not common to cry Peace to them that puts into your mouthes and to prepare War against them that does not and is it not common amongst you to apply Justification by Christ to People that are unconverted and unrenewed and you apply the promises to that birth that is not heire of the Kingdom and this is ill applyed and though you may cry against their unholy lives yet your selves being unholy this is but hypocrisie and sewing Pillowes under Arm-holes and the blood of People will God
his Apostles and his messengers and truth is a top of him and them all and with it are shut out Pr. He saith honour is the expressing of the inward respect that we hear to persons and many Scriptures he brings for bowing and for master pag. 23. and so stumbles at thee and thou Ans Which shewes he never learned his accidence or Bible and is a transgressor of Christs commands who saith be ye not of men called master for ye have one master even Christ and ye are all Brethren and a transgressor of the Law which they that respects persons commits sin and are convinced of the Law as transgressors and reprobate concerning the faith which is held without the respect of persons And though they bowed in the old time several that bowed before the Angels yet Christ is come by whom all things was made the salvation to the ends of the earth to whom powers principalities Thrones and dominions must be subject to whom Angels and Thrones must bow yea things in heaven and things in earth and every tongue confesse him to the glory of God and every knee bow and there people comes into the unity and there they hold the head Pr. He saith the Quakers light teacheth to forsake the Scriptures and set up a spirit in man which will not be examined by Scriptures page 26. Answ This is he which is out of the truth speakes it for the Quakers have not received the spirit of the world but the spirit of God by which they know the things which are freely given of God and know the Scriptures given forth from the spirit of God and with the same spirit the Scriptures is owned again Pr. He saith Paul swore after Christ and the Angells swore page 27. He saith I wonder Paul should so forget himselfe and sin so fearfully in swearing c. So the Quakers light that denies swearing is of Satan and not the light of Christ page 28. Answ Christ the Light which Satan is out of who is the oath of God ends all oaths sworn by Prophets or Angels whatsoever And who swears be fallen into the condemnation of the Devill and it is no where said that the Apostle swore but such as thou art matters not what thou speaks So that spirit that preaches for swearing is not the spirit of Christ but is the spirit of Antichrist preacheth up that which Christ and the Apostles preached down and preached Condemnation to them that did swear Pr. He saith The light in the conscience that takes them from the Law of God is the light of Satan Answ The light Christ in the conscience is the end of the Law for righteousnesse sake And that which keeps men from that which doth end the Law is not the Doctrine of the true Apostles but the false And the light which doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world which is the substance leads men off of all types and figures and signes who comes to enjoy him enjoys the end who comes off of all outward Elements as Bread and Wine and such things to the substance it self to look at things that are not seen For things that are seen are temporall but the things that are not seen are eternal Pr. He speaks of a new creature distinct from Christ and saith while we live sin lives And saith I deny that the righteousnesse of Christ whereby a believer is justified doth dwell in him page 36. Answ Is not the new creature in Christ He that is in Christ is a new creature and is not distinct from him and how hast thou divided the word here And Christ is justification sanctification and wisdome and righteousnesse and if he be not within ye ye are Reprobates And where Christ is he is not without righteousnesse Therefore they are not without righteousnesse and wisdome Justification and Sanctification if Christ be within that is within for where he is that is not wanting And the Apostle said they were made free from sin And let not sin have dominion over your mortall bodies minde mortall bodies which sin was not to have dominion over And old things passe away and all things become new Sin is an old thing from the old deceiver So while any sin is standing all things is not made new and sin hath its dominion Pr. He saith He hath not read where a believer dwells in Christs righteousnesse page 37. Answ Every believer that is true is born of God and he that is born of God doth not commit sin And he that dwells in Christ dwels in righteousness and truth is that which sin and the Devill is out of which blots out sin and transgression where the body of it comes to be put off Pr. And the light which teacheth men to say they have no sin is of Satan And saith The Quakers light teacheth them to deny prayer Answ The Apostles light taught them to say they were made free from sin they had put off the body of sin and their sin and transgression was blotted out Little children their sins was forgiven them that walked in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth them from all sin taught them to know the saith that gave them victory over the world that purified their hearts held in a pure conscience And this is the Quakers light which teacheth them the path of the Apostles and it teacheth men to be holy as God as holy and perfect as he is perfect This was the light of Christ and bid them to be as Christ is and said as he is so are we in this present world And the light that guides the Quakers doth not teach them to deny prayer but brings them to pray aright with the spirit and with the understanding which all prayers without it be in the hypocrisie Pr. He saith We acknowledge there is a thousand of perfect men in England as perfect as children tossed too and fro page 40. But he saith I deny that any man hath that perfect knowledge of Christ in this life c. Answ Christ is in you except ye be reprobates And the Scripture speaks of such as had both the Son and the Father And all those children that are tossed too and fro and are carried about with the windy doctrine which hath gotten up in the apostacy since the dayes of the Apostles that are ravened from the spirit of God Such their doctrines are windy and doth not settle nor doth not perfect not doth not bring into the unity of the faith nor the knowledge of the Son of God the faith that gives the victory nor to a perfect man nor to the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ which was the work of the true Ministry which was before the Apostacy Nor none comes to the knowledg of Christ but by the light Pr. He saith The Church teacheth to pray without ceasing but you bid stay till the spirit moves us c. Ans The Church prayes not without the spirit which
is the pillar and ground of truth And such as prays without the spirit prays without understanding And they that pray as the spirit doth move them they know what they ought to pray for So every man that cometh into the world being in the light that lighteth every man it will direct him to pray and to pray aright and to aske in the name of Christ who is the way to the Father Prin. He saith The Children of GOD never assumed to themselves an infallible spirit Ans Did not the Apostles say they that had not the spirit of Christ were none of his and was not that infallible And was not all the Scriptures given forth from the spirit of God and is not that infallible Pr. The spirit of Christ is a spirit of wisdome and a rationall spirit The light that brags of an infallible spirit and cannot speake sense nor reason is the spirit of Sathan page 46. Answ The spirit of Christ that was in the Apostles which led them to speak to the world who was in their own wisdom knowledge and understanding It was foolishnesse always judged with that wisdome knowledg and understanding for they ministred to the spirits in prison And Christ the Covenant of God which was promised to come and should say to the prisoners shew your selves forth who was accounted as a mad man by the wise Jewes the Apostles and Prophets likewise was as fooles Was not ever the Saints judged by the world to be by the sense and reason but just like mad men and fools Christ a mad man the Prophets fools and the Apostles mad a babler Who be in the spirit of the Prophets of Christ and the Apostles with this generation are judged the same So is the spirit of the Quakers so tryed and known of all men the witnesse in all mens consciences shall answer them Pr. Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the Oxe that treadeth out the corne And they that plow in hope and thresh in hope are made partakers of their hope And we are denyed of our corne and are fain to go to the Magistrate our nursing Fathers And so we thresh halfe a yeare and can get no wages then are we fain to goe to the Magistrate page 47. Answ How can you thresh or plow and have not the infallible spirit Can any get out the Corn the Wheat that hath not the infallible spirit Now we say all them that hath not the infallible spirit cannot get out the corn they may beat the ayr they may get the sheeps cloathing upon their backs and go out and beat the ayre and so when their Gospell will not maintain them then they are fain to flye to the Magistrate and to the hills that must be beaten as chaffe because they cannot live of the Gospel they preach which doth not open the hearts of people doth not get out the seed of God Prin. He saith The Quakers light condemns such as the light of Christ approves And saith Tell us what it is to walke holily as the holy men of God did c. Page 49. Answ Who walke holily walke in the spirit that the holy men did walke in that gave forth the Scriptures which is infallible And none walks holily but who are led with that out of the self-righteousnesse And the light which the Quakers be in is the light with which Christ doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world which cometh from Christ and is one with him And no one upon the earth owns Christ but who owns the light which doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world which the Quakers are in which thou calls a light from Sathan And they must all come to the Quakers if ever they own the light and if ever they own Christ the way to the Father and come into the power of godlinesse Pr. He saith It is wretchedness to say that Christ hath redeemed them perfectly and now lived in them the Lord of all things by which they are the sons of God page 50. Ans The Scriptures saith he is in all and through all who is God blessed for ever And who are redeemed are they not redeemed into perfection into Christ are not they redeemed perfectly Are not they redeemed out of imperfection And doth not Christ say he will dwell in the Saints who is Lord of all And are not all they in the wretched state that will not have him to reign over them Pr. He saith The Ministers of Christ received the Gospell not by man nor are taught it but by the Revelation of Jesus Christ but we owne no such Revelation as this page 51. Answ We do believe you who are apostatized and ravened from the spirit of God having onely the sheeps cloathing and are the Wolves abroad in the world which if it were possible ye would deceive the very elect But the elect is kept in the arme of Christ ye cannot pluck one of them out of his hands His father and he is greater then all And none knows the Gospel but who knows immediate revelation for the Gospell is the power of God unto salvation and this is immediate And so all you since the dayes of the Apostles are fled from the foundation Christ Jesus that doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world in the Apostacy with it you are all seen and fathomed over the world doth the light reach answered with that of God in every one the salvation to the ends of the earth which light cometh to fulfill Scriptures The Apostles were judged deceivers who came to bring the people to the substance the Scriptures spoke of so they were judged deceivers Pr. If the Quakers say that the Ministers have not the spirit that the Prophets and Apostles had then positively we say we have not And if the Quakers say they have it so then I say the Prophets and Apostles had it not page 53. Ans We do believe you that ye have not the same spirit that the Prophets and Apostles and Christ had Therefore doth it make manifest that ye be all on heaps about their words and are fain to run to Schools and Colledges to be made Ministers by men and not by the spirit And the Quakers witnesse the spirit that the Prophets and Apostles and Christ had with which they own their words with which spirit they see you who have gotten their words and makes a trade of them and are all on heaps about them and falls out about Church and Ministers Pr. He saith The infallible spirit did not guide Isaac when he blessed Jacob for he missed the person page 53. Answ God with his eternall spirit did direct Isaac what to do for that stood in his counsell though of that spirit thou have shewed thy ignorance and thy fallibility and thy selfe in whom the Devil is transformed into an Angel of Light which Christ said should come the false Prophets and Deceivers and false Apostles which the Apostles saw was come