ben spoken sence and now presently doe take place our Sauior faythfully promysing vnto Sainct Peter that Thow art Peter which is to saye a rock and vpon this rock I will buyld my church and the gates of hell shall not preuayll against it So that if nothing might be said to the contrary but that in the olde law the church of God was not to be founde which is vnpossible to be proued yet in this tyme of grace when all nations of the world are in the heritage of Christ as only the Israelites then were and when for figures we haue truthes for Moyses the seruant and his chayer Iesus the soune of God and his lieutenant for the inspirations which came at sondry tymes vpon the Prophetes a continuall presence of the maiestie of the holie ghost for promyses vnder cōdition to tarye with them if they would folow his cōmaundementes most absolute performāce of the spirite of truth to be with vs vntyl the worldes end in this tyme of grace so gloriouse so much made of so deere and welbe loued so defenced so priuileaged to make so harde and pynching rekoning that the light of the world should be couered vnder some busshell and that cytie be vnperceauable which Christ him selfe planted vpon the topp of a hyll it is an ignominious and Iewysh and cruell dysgracing of the church of Christ. But because we maye have a better tyme and leysure to speake against you in this matter if this visible church which hath contynued so long in one maner of doctrine and sacramentes be not the true church of God because the visible church of the Iewes had not allwayes the truthe of doctryne And if it must follow because the kynges of Iuda were some tymes Idolators that the clergie of those tymes agreed vnto them and if some did so in deede that all therefore without exception did it or if because the Prophetes reproued the maners of the high Priestes therefore they condemned theyr doctryne and religyon or if Christ because he was cōdemned of the high Priestes sayed not vnto the people concerning the doctors of Moyses law Doe that which they saye vnto you but doe not after theyr doinges And to be short if all these unreasonable consequēcies which would please you very well should be graunted vnto you tell vs then for conscience sake what church we shall follow If the churche of Rome which hath ben and is so well receyued hath ben and may be vntrulye perswaded maye not that church which you perchanse shall point out vnto vs with your lytle fynger be also with good lykelyhood very fowlie deceyued And maye not one thirde person commend vnto vs an other church which agreeth with none of our two and yet is nothing the better In this doubt which doth so necessarilye aryse what is your ghostly counsell vnto such as are fearefull of conscience The right church therfore as the fold of Christ hath the true worde of God and vse of his sacramentes according vnto the same for the due markes therof After this maner you shall haue some tymes the symple idiotes of the countrey to make answer vnto straingers asking the right waye vnto this or that place which they would come vnto For saye they you must goe by my grandsyres close and then keepe the straytwaye and you shall neuer mysse Or else lyke as a man would sende his seruant to London for a cupp of pure and cleane wyne and tell hym that he shall be sure to haue it there where he seeth an Iuye garland to hang at the dore or the drawer of the wyne to vse no deceptfull bruyng of it wheras the Iuye garland is no certayne tokē of good wine ready to be solde and euery tapster will easily saie for his owne truth and honestye so you haue tolde vs such markes to know the true church by that as the true church hath them in deede so yet euery mysbegotten congregatiō will chalendge them vnto herselfe Except you thinke that Luther and Zuinglius with all their forked tayles of heresies doe not eche of them stande in yt that they haue the true worde of God and right vse of the sacramētes on eche of their sydes which yet are contrary the one to the other I had thought you would haue tolde of one such marke and signe to come by the knowledge of the true church that in all the controuersies of opinions and all the euill conditions of lyuing we might haue ben directed vnto one certayne and approued staye of our consciences and you to declare your wysedome and vnderstanding haue named two such markes as euery kynde of religion will boldely chalendge vnto her selfe First the true worde of God saye you is one true marke of the church what meane you then by the worde of God for if you meane the volume of the olde and new testament and that wheresoeuer we fynde the byble in any persons handes that we must thereby straitwayes take this for a certayne tokē that he which hath the byble in his hande is one of the right churche so shal you haue not only your selfe but Arrians Anabaptistes and all the rabell of myscreantes to be of the true churche by good lykelyhod On the otherside if you meane by the worde of God the two testamentes not as they are to be solde at bookebynders shopps but as they are expounded of sincere and true preachers what tokē thē shall we haue of you to know readily who is a true preacher And as I haue said of this first marke which you geaue so maye I saye againe of your seconde which is the right vse of the sacramētes Which as I will graunt vnto you to be rightlye practized onlye within the true churche so yet you haue to shewe vs further how I maye know such as doe minister them accordinglye You would proue by S. Augustine S. Cyprian Saint Chrisostome and Origine that the scripture is the true tryall of the churche Yea Syr in one sense that is true in deed as also that the church maketh the tryall and declaration of the true scripture But that euer any good and reasonable man had this meanyng that who so euer would might take the scriptures into his handes and sytt iudge ouer the church I denye it vtterly and I am sure you can neuer proue it For as the scripture declareth which is the true church so doeth the churche shewe the authoritie of the scripture and the scripture and the churche are the better the one for the other of them Do you thinke to make vs aferde by the appealing vnto scripture or doe you labor to moue a suspition that you only haue the Ghospell for you Verely we are content to be tryed not only by the scriptures but euen by those holy fathers which you depraue in this place towardes your purpose The cōtrouersie now betwene vs and you is the same which
difference to be betwyxt the priest and the people and confesse that taking blessing and breaking is so properly his that it can not rightly be the common peoples Yea marie saie you but Christ tooke the bread c. then the priest in his ministration must do as Christ dyd and no otherwyse that is to take breake and geaue vnto the people c. Speake you this of your owne mynd or do you speake it as it were vpon occasion of the Catholikes wordes Yf you thinke as you speake why find you no fault with your coÌ„munion where no rule ys apointed vnto ministers of taking the bread in to their handes or of blessing it which Christ hymselfe dyd But if you beleeue not that of necessity euery thing must be done as Christ dyd at his maundy what cause then moueth you whi distributyng should be more required then taking and blessing of the holy host which by your seruyce is omitted For the Catholike church doth teach that as the body of Christ is a sacrifice and a sacrameÌ„t so lykewyse that it ys two distinct actes â–ª his body to be offered and the same to be receiued And as S. Cypriane whom I haue alleaged doth testifie that the bread which the true Melchisedech and our high priest Christ gaue to his Disciples was both a whole burnt offering and sacriâ—ice and allso a medicine so as it is a medicine it is to be receaued of all Christians because all without exception are diseased and as it is a sacrifice it is actually to be offered for all persons by such as are properly apoynted out for that purpose because no man should take an office vpon hym before he be called Yet because one may iustly saie that to shew furth the death of our Lord vntill he come doth well agree with euery Christian man his part and office and therevpon vntruly conclud that Do this in remembrance of me which is by the interpretation of S. Paule to shew furth the death of Christ vntill he come should in all pointes be referred as well vnto the people as the priest therfor I answer further that allthough many thinges which Christ spake to the Apostles onlye and their successors may be truly applied vnto euery Christian so is it in this case of which we talke Christ saied vnto the Apostles onlye You haue not chosen me but I haue chosen you which allthough it may be truly verified of euery Christian man woman and child because that Christ in deed hath chosen vs to his people so many other besides coÌ„tinuing in their infidelitie or Iuisshnes yet it must not folow that Christ dyd not meane by those wordes that the Apostles were singularly chosen vnto the proper office of preaching and ministring his sacramentes Therfor allthough one may vse the wordes Do this in remembrance of me in respect of the common peoples affection yet it is not true that Christ had no larger or greater meanyng in them then that by eatyng of his body we should only remember that he dyed for vs which euery one may do as well as a priest Wherefor Syr as you haue coÌ„cluded that the priest is not bound to minister to other if there be none to receaue which is quickly to be graunted vnto you so I say that you haue nothing at all proued that Christ his institution stretcheth as well to the people as the priest or that the priest could not laufully receaue except there were some cumpany But where now are your scriptures your Doctours your generall councells and your crakes by which you should directly answer to that which is required of you We shall perchaunse hereafter in your defence read many great argumentes against vs but in the meane tyme you thinke it good to prouyde for a place of refuge when the ouerthrow shall be geauen vnto you And therefor you saie Yf we had no scripture at all to proue that the priest should not receaue without cumpany yf ye dyd geaue vs the ouerthrow in that yet could ye not triumph therein as though ye had wonn the field And why so I pray you Our contention you answer ys for priuate Masse c. of which sole receauyng ys but one part You pitch your campe Sir in a very wyde field and your kind of fight is such as we perceaue you would neuer be ouercummed The church of God whose armies of doctrine and verities do allwaies stand in good order if she be iustly ouercuÌ„med in any one thing which she absolutelye mainteineth she straitwaies shall be forsaken as one which is not to be credited But you in whose name I will not saie are so trimlye prepared that allthough you be ouerthrowen in one of your articles yet you will not be ouercummed in the state of your whole religion Yet how well this may be graunted lett vs consider Do not you distinct thinges some in to necessarie some in to indifferent Do not you saie that the sole receauyng of a priest by hym selfe is not a thing indifferent And do not you make a necessitie of doctrine in it that the people must receaue with the priest or els Christ his institution is broken Tell me then now further Is not the church of Christ the pillar and staie of truth And can that be possiblie his church which would sett furth a lye No truly It is impossible that the church should err in doctrine to whom the Holyghost was promised to teach her all truth and allso to tary with her for euer And if but one article which she defendeth be proued false I will not saie that all the rest which she vttered is false but this is most certen that she is not the church which is to be folowed Yet see you can so dispose your selues that allthough you be proued lyers in one of those your articles which you make necessary yet you will not be mistrusted but that neuerthelesse you be the true church of Christ. And whereas the Holyghost which was promised vnto the church doth teach her all truth yet you so vnderstand the matter that for all the ouerthrowing of one whing of your battaile you neuerthelesse will not leese the whole field and victorie Which one saying of yours alone without further stroke geaueÌ„ doth so wound your church and confound it that in deed you haue lost the victorie And it may well be that your tong is yet free and that your feete may serue you to runn in to other questions besides the purpose but as concernyng the truth which is with you in all poyntes if you be the true church you haue lost for euer the grace of it either because as we know you can not disproue sole receiuing either because yourselfe saie that if you were therein ouerthrowen you had not yet lost the victorie Which is thus much in effect that the church of Christ which honor you challenge vnto yourselfe might
the heate of his preachementes he could not but take a noune to his bedfellow And as he was in his doinges so is he in his writinges so shameles so fylthy so vncleane so slaunderous so mutable so presumptious and so desperate that it is wonder that he is accompted for a man much lesse for a man of God I speake these thinges to declare what difference ther is betweene our holy Abbates and your rennegate fryars the folowers of our religion and the founders of yours to enforce you hereby to shew what you thinke of S. Bernard S. Bonauenture S. Denyse and others and to signifye hereby vnto you that as we staye vpon contynuance and numbre so yet we reioyce at the vertues and graces which haue and do appeare playnly in many of this numbre wherefore it is not without cause that we are confirmed in our fayth and doctryne because of such a contynuance of it Note that I saye such a contynuanbe For Turkes Sarracenes and Panymes may alleage contynuance but such a contynuance in which the doctrine taught is greauous vnto the carnall man and yet receyued and the greatest professors of it are hated of all heretikes and yet for conscience and wordlye shame are not cōdemned such a one I say is much to be regarded and such a one is not found but onlye emong the Catholikes whose waies in doctrine if they be not open secure especially so great cumpany for so long tyme going in them with prosperous faring to their iourneyes end then will I neuer trust any waye but be as the cumpany is indifferent to go with euery one vntyll I am wery But thankes be to God he hath better prouyded for vs appointing his catholike churche to be the pyller and staye of true religion Which although it is quyckly to be founde out because it is in deede Catholike yet you thinke it necessarye to examyne what is the church and how it maye be knowen Goe to then we will follow you to the end of your defence in euery conclusion which you make against vs. The Scripture saye you speaketh of the church two waies sometyme as it is in deede before God not knowen allwaie to mans iudgement c. Sometyme the church is taken for the vniuersall multitude of all those which beyng dispersed through the world acknowledge one Christ. c. Sometyme the church is taken for the multitude of those that beare rule in the church You performe more then you promysed We looked but for two wayes and you haue declared three in which the scripture speaketh of the church by which it appeareth that you haue pretye knowledge but you keepe lytle good ordre in setting furth your diuisions Yet goe to as concerning the first sense which you make of the church what make you of her Can it err or no No say you this church is the pyller of truth that neuer continueth in error This church is neuer forsaken of the spirite of God In to this church none be receyued but onlye the children of grace and adoption How might a man then I praye you know this church Verely neither you neither any other can tell For whereas it consisteth of such as be the elect and chosen who can saye either of hymselfe that he is one of them or how can one say that of an other whose hart he seeth not which he can not vnderstand of his owne case which is best knowen vnto hymselfe Therfore as cōcerning the profyt and cōmoditye which they that would might take of this churche which is the pyller of truth we can receyue very lytle of it because she is inuisible vnto man and knowen onlye before God And if you dare saye that this churche may also be knowen vnto man I would you had showen one token or other of her that we might be sure where to fynde the pyller of truthe Now as concerning the church which is dispersed through the worlde and acknowledgeth one Christ and is Through baptisme admitted thervnto and by the vse of the Lordes supper openlye professeth the vnitie therof in doctryne and charitie Is this church trow you the pyller of truthe or what other opinion shall we haue of her This church saye you is resembled vnto a nett which hath good and bad in it it is resembled vnto a field which hath pure corne and cockle also in it You saye herein trulye and you agree now very wel with the catholike church which teacheth vs that in this world the good and euyll Christians are mengled togeather You make also much against certayne heretikes which stand in it stoutly that onely the elect are of the howsehold and familye of God which yet as you haue clerkely defined it can not be so because the good and the badd which acknowledge one Christ and receyue the sacramētes are the true church of Christ. Graunting therefor vnto you that the church hath good men and euill in her I aske now the cause of you wherfore you labor to proue that this church maye goe out of the waye for some part of her you tell vs of Noe of the .x. trybes of Israell of the Prophetes of the captiuitie of Babilon and other such historyes But to what end and purpose yf you wil proue thereby that thei which beare the name of the people of God haue often tymes forsaken his law and destroyed his Prophetes you haue spoken that for proufe wherof I wold neuer haue gone to the flood of Noe hauing so many examples at home to make this conclusion manifest For all they which be Christened doe beare the name of the people of God and the promyses are made only vnto them yet this world maye declare how many coniurars dissemblers wycked lyuers faithlesse ministers lecherous friars and desperate peruerters of all law and honestie doe lyue in the churche But if you would proue that because a great numbre was deceyued therefore the whole churche was subuerted you speake alltogeather without booke For to consider one example for all in the tyme of Elias the Prophet when he good man thought that all had forsaken God besydes hym selfe yet said God vnto hym I haue lefte my selfe seuen thousand in Israell which haue not bowed their knees before Baal And before that it is playne by the booke of kynges that Abdyas the stewarde of kyng Achab his house dyd hyde a hundred Prophetes of God from the sight of Iezabell the quene and fedd thē with bread and water Therefore as it can not be denyed but that they which haue borne the name of the people of God haue not allwayes and wholy folowed hym so yet it can neuer be proued that the visible church of God hath ben in all her partes subuerted And yet in the old law the church was not then so richely endowed as it was afterward in the commyng of Christ and his holie ghost neither were those wordes spokē then which haue
be permitted but that which hath come frō the Apostles or that those thinges should be alltogeather now autētike which were vsed in the primitiue church But if the Catholike hath ben superfluous in prouing of that which no man as you saie hath denyed if you wyll charitablie forgeaue hym this once he shall within the turnyng of one leaffe in your defence do the lyke again for you And now I trow we do agree in this one poynt that for ceremonies and thinges indifferent we are not bound vnto the Apostells tyme. In what thinges then are we bound to do after the example of the Apostels and the primitiue church In truth of doctrines and right vse of sacramētes as thinges in the church most necessarie And you doe alleage this cause of your so saying In doctrine there is but one veritie and but one right vse of the sacramentes If I were able precisely to know what you meane by the right vse of Sacramentes I could sone answer you how farfurth we agree with you in this part of your distinction For to receiue in the morning or euening to receiue fasting or after meales and to receiue with cumpanie or alone they be such thinges as you may at your pleasure vnderstand by the right vse of the Sacrament or saie to disagree from the right vse of it For in S. Paules tyme emong the Corinthians they vsed to receiue at night about supper tyme and they made no matter of conscience if they had dined that daie before And you can not saie but notwithstanding the breaking of their fastes or takyng of their suppers they dyd in that beginnyng of the church rightly vse the Sacrament Yf therefor the vse of the Sacrament ys to be taken for that manner and order which they rightly vsed at the begynnyng in receauyng of the sacramentes I denie vnto you that the right vse of them is to be accompted emong preceptes and lawes vnchangeable For the right vse is but one you saie and therefor lyke as thei of the Apostells tyme dyd sitt togeather in the church about euening and receiue either after or before other meates Christ his verie naturall body so should we do now of necessitie in these daies or els we vse not the sacrament rightly To which case if you will answer that tyme place and maner of supping with common meates which then were vsed do nothing apperteine to the right vse of the sacramēt so shall I againe inferr that number of communicantes and receiuing in one or both kyndes are as litle required to the right vse of the sacrament Therefor to auoid the occasion of stryuing which could not but be geauen if one part vnderstanded not the other our meanyng is this that in the articles of our faith and necessary doctrine we haue to keepe one veritie which hath ben from the begynnyng but in canons and orders which haue ben added sence vnto the substance of our religion the church of Christ is not so straictly bound vnto them but that she may with discretion abrogate or alter them or permit the discontinuance of them And in this kynd of orders we vnderstand the vse of the sacramētes which in substance are to this daie one with those of the primitue church do thei neuer so much differ in ceremonies circunstancies and manner of vsing them We do not therefore graunt vnto you that the right vse of the sacrament ys but one or that the vse of a sacrament is in the same authoritie and estimation as the truth of doctrine is For he which receiueth alone if he be in state of grace doth well and he which receiueth with cumpanie doth wel if his liffe be cleane And then againe a conclusion in doctrine can neuer be remoued but in receiuing of sacramentes diuers vses may be permitted except you doubt whether both parties should be thought baptised a right of which the one were but once dipped the other thrise wasshed and perfunded Wherefore the vse of the sacramentes being ▪ with vs a thing indifferēt in it selfe allthough not indifferent vnto euerie rasshe controller you speake very absurdly vnto our iudgementes first in not bynding vs vnto the obseruations of ceremonies and thinges indifferent and then againe requiring of vs to keepe the ceremonies of the primitiue church ▪ For when you had said in one sentence For the vse of ceremonies and thinges indifferent we do not bind you to the Apostles tyme and the primitiue church in the next sentence folowing you call for redresse according to the scripture and primitiue church not only for vse of sacramentes or false opinions which are referred to the first member of your distinction but allso as concerning ceremonies which allthough you call superstitious that you might seeme to haue some iust cause of taking them awaie yet you do against right dealing to call vs to the primitiue churche for ceremonies which you said before were in themselues indifferēt And here loe you make a rule and saie that nothing is to be added vnto the first ordinances of the law and that we must bring thinges vnto the institution of Christ. And againe that we must not harken what other dyd before vs but what Christ first dyd that was before all And yet againe That that ys true that was first ordeined and that ys corrupted that ys after done which rule yf you wyll haue to be vnderstanded in suche matters as cōcerne immutable doctrine then haue you proued that thing which none of ours denyeth vnto you and so you are all fallen in to the same lapse for which you misliked with others But if you vnderstand generally by truth of doctrine the vse of Sacramentes and ceremonnies then haue you much forgoten yout selfe which euen now made ceremonies indifferent But if you do it for that purpose that a Catholike should not know where to haue you allthough I seeme to aske your losse yet for truth sake amend that fasshion And perchaūse this myght be amended allso that you do not trulie alleage your testimonies saying that to be Saint Cyprianes in his Epistle vnto Cecilius which is not at all to be found there but in his goodly treatise De simplicitate praelatorum In which place the seeking vnto the head which you do mention is not vnderstanded for to seeke vnto the beginnyng of a doctrine or custome but vnto that head of whom it ys wryten Thou art Peter that is to saye a rocke and vpon this rocke I wyll buyld my church But how rightlie you alleage the doctours and how much they make for you it wyll be perceaued before we haue ended Hytherto let it be marked that we refuse your rule of resorting to the first institution for the redresse about the vse of the Sacramentes Because the vse of them is a thing indifferent and it neither maketh neither marreth to receiue alone or with cumpanie and to receiue in one or in both kyndes or at
which you saie was doone in remembrance of Christs saerifice Can you vnderstand any other thing but the taking and blessing and breaking of bread for in doing these thinges we folow Christs example and remember his passion Yf then according vnto your first sense of this terme oblation you graunt that without anie to cōmunicate the priest alone dyd offer ergo you graunt as much as we require that the priest dyd take blesse and breake in remembrance of Christs sacrifice But on the other side if you take the word oblatiō for the offering vp of bread and wine for the prouision of the Lords supper that was not the priests offering of whiche S. Chrisostome speaketh but it was the offering of the people And according vnto this your sense S. Chrisostome could not saie that there was none to communicate because the good people which offered the bread and wine towardes the supper of the Lords were in that point not onlie communicantes but allso chiefe ministers and doers Or at the least the priestes and poore folke which were susteined by such oblations were neuer so euill taught that they would not remember their dailie bread or so wel fedd otherwyse that they needed not to care for the welthiers almes and make S. Chrisostome to complaine vpon it that there is no bodie to communicate And further more none of these .ij. kindes of oblations of which you now speake were in vaine or fructlesse vnto the people but as concernyng the oblation which S. Chrisostome meaneth his wordes be plaine that the dailie oblation ys in vaine offered Allso if these wordes dailie oblation and sacrifice by putting the case that none at all dyd receaue are to be vnderstanded for that which is done in remembrāce of Christs passion or for the offering vp of bread and wine to the celebration of the Lords supper you leaue I do trust a more excellent sense of these wordes dailie oblation for that tyme and place when the people doe communicate with the priest For if you doenot then is the oblation all one whether some or none do receaue and if you doe then must you tell vs of one waie more of taking this word oblation then you haue yet vttered Againe if a man will consider how royallie and yet trulie S. Chrisostome in the forsaid homelie speaketh of this dailie sacrifice calling it an oblatiō at which the verie Angells doe tremble and warning the people to thinke well vpon it how the kings table standeth there that the Angels are wayting and seruing at it that the king hymself is present that Christ the lambe of God is offered vp further if one should marke wel but those externall preparations of which he there speaketh as the drawing a syde of curteines the making cleane of the table the setting down of patins with all reuerence and diligence can he thinke that S. Chrisostome dyd meane by dailie sacrifice no more but a remembrance you doe not tell what of the sacrifice which Christ made vpon the crosse or els the onlie offering vp of bread and wyne towardes the mainteaning of the Lords supper But let vs goe further Yf you be so cunnyng in expounding of oblation against the mind of the author and besides all colour of reason make an end of your comment and tell vs what Chrisostome meaneth by quotidiana dailie He calleth it Quotidianam to the imitation of the sacrifice of the old lawe May one then imitate the old law in speaking he may doe it vndoubtedlie Yet you fo 33. of your defence do make that odiouse by an vnreuerent and suspitiouse manner of vttering it which in itselfe is honest and lawfull and which yourselfe do vse at this present For to saie Quotidianam and daylie sacrifice to be so called to the imitation of the sacrifice of the old law it soundeth well and tolerablie and yourselfe do take S. Chrisostome an that sense to no dispraise or contempt of hym Yet when the Catholikes now a daies call their misteries by the name of sacrifice you will not saie that thei haue taken that manner of speaking out of the old law for that soundeth to no reproche but of the Iewisshe priestes as who should gather a suspition of Iewisshnes vpon vs. It is worth the noting because it is worth the amending But to S. Chrisostome his Quotidianam what answer you He calleth it Quotidianam c. not because it was done euery daie without intermission How then doth it imitate the old law which had dailie offering or how can it be called Quotidiana which is dailie The dailie sacrifice of the old law was .ij. lambes of one yere without spott which God apoynted to be offered vp in sacrifice euerie morning and euening for euer and thei made the quotidianum the iuge and the dailie sacrifice of the Iewes You saie therefor and vnsaie First that the sacrifice which S. Chrisostome calleth Quotidianam is so termed to the imitation of the Iewes whose dailie and speciallie allso dailie sacrifice is cōmaunded by God to be allwaies continued and then you tell vs that it was not done euerie daie without intermission which is in effect to saie that it is not called quotidian to the imitation of the Iewes Yet lett vs heare further He calleth it Quotidianam not because it was done euery daye but for that it was oftentymes celebrated that is so often as the people assembled togeather to the church or common place of prayers etc. at which tymes he allwaies had either some of the people or the residue of the ministers and clergie to communicate with hym Marke here gentle Reader the folissh hardines of this M. of defence and consider by this one example how wickedly the lerned and holy doctours are abused Dyd the seruice then of the church depend vpon the cummyng of the people or dyd some one or other allwaies receaue when the dayly oblation was offered where should we seeke more better for the truth of this question then in Saint Chrisostome hys owne masse and workes for as concernyng the daylie saying of masse in the latin church it ys plainely concluded by the testimonie of S. Austine which reporteth of hys mother that she serued and honored God at hys aultar nullius diei pretermissione without letting one day passe But let vs be contented with that which S. Chrisostome alone shall geaue vs. It appeareth then in hys masse that they had for euerie ferie in the weeke a certen song in the prayse of our ladie S. Michel S. Iohn the Baptist and other which they vsed immediately after the Ghospell and called it apoliticion Further it appeareth that they dyd not first aske emong the people who were disposed to receiue and vppon the answer geauen frame the matter to a cōmunion but first of all they went to the consecration and after that the oblation was finisshed and the priest with such
subiectes and bodyes be without dimension it is openlie in scholes concluded to see who can proue the contrarie But how few or how many may make oâ— marr your communion you dare not or can not aunswer vnto it least you should be reproued Wherefor seeing that you make silence your defence and will not vtter the state of your religion it is no lytle confort vnto vs that you be coÌ„founded yet in your owne conscience And as we haue so faithfull myndes that in God his misteries we go no further then he and his holy church leadeth vs so yet thankes be to God our wittes are not so simple that in a plaine and sensible question we can not tell what to answer but saie that either our aduersarie dallieth or fayne that the question which is asked conteyneth a misterie The aight Chapiter THE Catholike in his Apologie to proue that numbre of communicaÌ„tes is not necessarie in the receiuing of the SacrameÌ„t alleageth a saying of Erasmus which he sheweth to be agreable vnto the testimonies of lerned and holie fathers Tertullian S. Cyprian S. Cirill and S. Ambrose which if we should dilate so farr forth as we might our replie would he very long and tediouse and except we doe declare in what sense they serue for our purpose it can not be but intricate and comberous Shortly therefor to make a state of our question in this chapiter and to haue the more leysure to speake of the testimonies brought in for vâ— Lett this be our argument which I praie the good reader to beare awaye Eâ—asâ—us sayeth that in olde tyme the bodye of our Lorde was delyuered into folkes handes that they which had taken yt might receyue yt at home when they would Ergo yt is not necessarye to haue allwayes communicantes Now vnto this argument what doe you answer with all your defence Syr it semeth very straunge to me that you which haue so much hated Erasmus c. should now in your nede take helpe and succor at his hande Syr our store is so greate that we neede not Erasmus authoritie but our behauior is so reasonable that we doe condescend to you in alleaging your owne doctors And it seemeth very strainge vnto me that Erasmus whom you call a singular instrumeÌ„t prouided of God to beginne the reformatioÌ„ of his church shold yet be proued to haue written by name against the false ghospellers and beginners of this new reformation of Christianitie For is God diuided or hath he no better prouided but that such as you call the singular instrumeÌ„tes of vttering his pleasure and will should be found so contrarie emong them selfes and so farr repugnant one vnto an other But as coÌ„cerning this learned man we take his coÌ„fession we vse not his testimonie And we tel you what he thought if perchauÌ„se that maye moue you but we take him not for a wytnes in our cause as though we might not well spare hym And this doth hereby wel appeare that we bring forth holie and blessed mens authorities to proue that most true which Erasmus hath confessed Of whom if you be now werie for all that God prouided him singularly as you saie for you what saie you then to S. Cyprian S. Cirill S. Ambrose and Terrullian by whom it is proued that in olde tyme there was sole receiuing emong ChristiaÌ„s And here now to declare peâ—chaunse that you be well scene in antiquities you tell vs a sadd tale of much trouble vexation and persecution which was vsed in the primitiue church and that the Sacrament was sent to such as were absent and that Hereof it came that diuers receyued alone in theyr houses Now thankes be to God that at length yet you can not but coÌ„fesse that sole receiuing was vsed in the primitiue church Where now are your lowde exprobrations that we haue not one worde or sillable in all the Doctors for the space of six hundred yeares after Christ to make for vs That we haue not so much as any colour or similitude of truth as concerning sole receiuing â–ª c That Christ his institution is wholy against vs That ther must be necessarilie as you do terme it a particular communion You be not farr from the kyngdome of heauen you be allmost wellcome home or at least waies you be looking homeward a litle But this newes is to good I feare to be trew and allthough you can not denye sole receiuing yet you will not be quyet but continew styll in your stryuing For you saie this But you should bring such places as might proue that the common minister in place of the Lorde his supper did celebrate and receyue alone other being present and not partakyng No Syr you must not rule vs in the maner of our reasoning and appoint vs to proue that which we take not vpon vs. This is it which I haue wysshed before to be well remembred that our question is not whether any priest then did receiue alone but whether he might doe it laufullie or no that is our question And as the Catholike in his Apologie fol. 8. warned you most playnelie that there is an open difference betweene these two sentences There was no priuate masse at that tyme â–ª and â–ª There ought to be no priuate masse at any tyme. So take a fayer warning agayne that we labor to proue not what thing was then commonlie doone but what maye now and might then haue ben laufullie doone Mary we can not proue saye you that the common minister dyd celebrate and receyue alone other being present Verâ—â—e what the priest did we take not vpon vs to proue but what he might do that we can shew vnto you Do not you allwaies appeale vnto Christ his institution Doe not you make your selfes so cunnyng in it that you can tell vs of the indifferent partes and of the substanciall partes of it Haue not you defined it that to receiue with cumpany is a substanciall parte of it And do not you coÌ„clude herevpon that the priest can not receiue by hymselfe alone without breach of Christ his institutioÌ„ These being your principles if we do disproue any of them then is your conclusion destroyed But how can we more playnelie do it then by reciting the examples of the primitiue church by which you are contented to be tryed in which age sole receiuing was vsed and yet Christ his institution not thought to be violated Can you denye that sole receiuing was theÌ„ vsed you can not But you make this limitation that it was vsed in case of necessitie and of laye men not of priestes Well make the case how harde so euer you will we aske no more but that all men should know that sole receiuing was lawfullie then vsed Now therfor saie you let vs see how aptly vpon this graunt you conclude your purpose More aptly I trust then you haue doone it for vs which behaue your selfe so vprightly that all
is the worse for your handeling We therefore doe not straitwaies looke for a priest at an aultar but first we take your confessyon that sole receiuing is lawfull as being vsed in the primitiue church and then we inferr that Christ his institution doth not requyre of necessitie a numbre to receiue allwaies togeather Ergo then Christ his institution is not broken when a priest alone by hymselfâ— receiueth Ergo you should amend your needeles appealing vnto that institution which you doe not vnderstand and confesse that there is no impedimeÌ„t wherfor a priest maye not saie masse and receiue alone For if it had ben a substaÌ„ciall point of Christ his institution to haue coÌ„municantes no necessitie might haue made for sole receiuing but in the primitiue church ther was sole receiuing Ergo that which you terme particular communion is not of the necessitie of Christ his commaundement For as concerning the persecutions of those tymes which caused that the ChristiaÌ„s could not come togeather thei serued well to delyuer mens coÌ„sciencies from the scruples which thei might haue had for not receiuing but thei doe not liceÌ„ce them to receiue against Christ his institution As for example at an Easter tyme when all Christians do receiue of dutie if through persecution certaine of them were dryuen vnto such extremytes that thei could haue neither wheaten breade nor wyne nor priest to minister the communion vnto them this necessitie doth not make it laufull that thei celebrate in oten cakes and whey or that with their laycall handes thei take blesse and receiue in the remembrance that Christ dyed for them and be thankefull but only it maketh for their quyetnes of mynde and conscience that thei thinke not them selfes to haue transgressed the law of the church because of the present necessitie which hath none other remedye but pacience And so lykewise if thâ— Bishopes which gouerned the church in those persecutions had thought it to be â—f the substance of Christ his institution that without your particular coÌ„munion the sacrament might not haue ben receiued thei would not haue sent it home to Christians howses there to be receiued of them priuately but thei would rather haue exhorted them not to be discomforted for all the lack of the visible sacrameÌ„t and willed them to praye for a quyet and good tyme in which thei might coÌ„municate after Christ his institution But for all the trobles of persecution thei did not so Ergo it is plaine to perceiue that thei thought not as you do of Christ his institution And this being once confirmed that the institution of Christ doth not requyre of necessitie coÌ„municantes we doe rightly inferr that a priest maye receiue alone without any iniuire done to the institution of our Sauyor But good Lord how miserablie are you tormented within your selfes as it maye seeme You graunt sole receiuing in some case you confesse it to haue ben vsed in the primitiue church and yet you saye that Christ his institution doth allwaies require company To denie the authoritie of the primitiue church you dare not and reuoke your owne comment made vpon Christ his institution you will not What will ye doe poore soules you turne and wâ—nde your selfes loth to refuse the aucthoritie of the primitiue church and sorye that you can not make it agree with Christ his institution as you expound it And therefore not withstaÌ„ding your former graunt that sole receyuing was vsed in the primitiue church yet now you temper the matter signifying that it was then either tolerable or pius error but that now it shold be intolerable and impia prophanatio As who should saye In deede it can not be denyed but that in the primitiue church sole receiuing was vsed vndoubtedly against the institution of Christ and example of S. Paull in his epistle to the Corynthians but yet we must not saye so expreslie for then we shall marr all but coÌ„fesse the matter making the best that we can of it and saying that it was tolerated and not alowed or a certaine good and harmeles error in the people and not a wycked prophanation of Christ his coÌ„maundement But whether this be true or no that in the primitiue church a playne transgressing of Christ his commaundement in the substance of the sacrament would haue ben tolerated of the blessed clergiâ— of that age or that they would haue smyled at the breach of Christ his institutioÌ„ and called that fault by no worse name then pius error it will easely appeare by this that sole receyuing at home was neuer yet thought vntolerable and wicked Yes saye you Hyerome against Iouinian mencioneth that in his tyme some vsed to receyue in their houses but he earnestly inueigheth against that maner Why sayeth he doe they not come into the church Is Christ sometyme abrode in the common place sometyme at home in the howse Beleiue not euery spirit sayeth the Apostle but trye them whether thei be of God But alas how shall he vvhich knoweth none other tongue then his English trye the truth of his sayinges which speaketh vnto hym out of Latyne authors But if the simple can not or should not rather examyne these matters let the indiffereÌ„tlie learned take an example by this one place with what coÌ„science and honestie you alleage and abuse the doctors Might not a man thinke which had neuer read S. Hierome against Iouinian that he expreslie condemneth the receiuing at home out of the church Yet he sayeth nothing lesse which to make more playne vnto you consider the occasion of Saint Hierome his wordes in that place Iouinian the heretike would haue no excellencie to be in virginitie aboue mariage S. Hierome coÌ„futeth hym at large vsing emong other argumentes that weddlock is not so great a good thing seeing that prayer is hyndred by it the Apostle saying Doe ye not defraude one the other except it be vpon consent for a tyme that ye maye entend to praye He said also what maner of good thing call you that which letteth a man froÌ„ the receiuing of Christ his bodye For he presupposeth that if the Israelites did abstaine from their wyues three dayes before thei receiued the law and if Dauid the kyng with his cumpanye were examined whether they had layen with their wyues latelie before wheÌ„ they desyred to haue some of the loeues which are called propositionis panes much more a Christian should absteyne a certayne tyme from his laufull wyfe before he did presume to receiue Christ his bodye Yet saieth S. Hierome I know that this custome is in Rome that the faythfull doe at all tymes receyue the bodye of Christ which thing I doe neither reproue neither allow for euery man abundeth in his owne sense But I aske of theyr consciencies which doe communicate the same day after they haue had carnall knowledge of theyr wyues iâ—xta Persium noctem flumine purgant wherefore they dare not goe vnto the Martyrs
dissolute fryar be thought worthy of estimation because he hath at these dayes manye folowers are not the religious in deede which continued in great numbre and with much praise in ther orders much more to be regarded If this be the tyme of grace and light in which we may see and lament vowes broken monasteryes ouerturned the landes of Christ and his church alyenated virginitie fasting praying and all rules of good and perfect lyfe coÌ„temned â–ª what tyme was that in which the contraries of all these were highlie commended and practysed The continuance onlye of a religion .900 yeares â–ª without interruption is a very probable argument not lightlie to passe away from it But when it is considered how many learned and godlie men how great Vniuersities how mighty Princes lyued within the compasse of those yeares and that of them all no one of the good and learned did anye thing write or preache against it and none of the Princes either would either could resist it who but vnsensible may thinke that it should not be of God Although that heresies do very shamefully encreace and that there be so many sectes and diuisions emong them that no one parte can euer be greate although the whole world were ouerturned vnto heresie yet at this day moe Catholikes are in Christendome then Lutherans Zuinglians Osiandrians Caluinyans Anabaptistes and all the rest of the lyke making togeather For these heresies are yet God make them narrower but here and there dispersed and Germanye the mother of them is for a great part of it full Catholike Yet as litle place as the new ghospell hath in comparison of Christendome see how much he whom you take for no small fole doth crake and bragg of that lytle Be ye sure sayth he so many free cityes so many kynges so many Princes as at this daye haue abandoned the sea of Rome and adioyned themselues to the Ghospell of Christ are not become madd Loe Syr if this felow might so trulye haue reported that all Kynges all Princes all free cityes of Christendome were of his religion as he doth falselye make an accompt of so many free cityes so many kynges so many princes c. how great an argument would you thinke that he dyd make for your side And againe if he had ben able to proue that for .ix. hundred yeares togeather Kynges and Princes and free cityes had contynued in his fayth without open contradiction how madd would he haue said all such to be as resist a religion confirmed by such authoritie and contynuance But this is your practise to denye all thinges which make presentlye against you and to allow the same againe when hereafter they maye serue for you and so long as you be in danger of law No man must be violentlye constrayned to receyue the religion which his conscience can not allow And when the Prince and power is with you then saye you Hanging is to good for hym which wyll not beleiue as you doe And so in the Apologye of your Englysh church the argument was â—ound and comfortable that because many Kynges had abandoned the sea of Rome therefore they might seeme not to be madd which did folow them and now in this your defence of the truth as you call it when we alleage contynuance and authoritie of .ix. hundred yeares you saye that multitude maketh not to the purpose and you thinke your selfe not a lytle wise in reprouing of our argument But how wise you proue your selfe therein it is worthwhile to consider First you say that the prescription of .xv. hundred yeares the consent of the most part of Christendome the holynes and learning of so many fathers as haue ben these .ix. hundred yeares the age and slender learning of those which stande against you all which thinges we doe bring for our defence These thinges saye you Doe nothing at all eyther feare vs or moue vs to suspect that doctrine which by Christs authoritie and wytnes of the Apostels we know to be true Stode you by the Apostles at their elbowes when they wrote their ghospells or epistles or were you then present with Christ when he walked visibly vpon the earth and by signes and myracles proued hym selfe to be the soune of God Trulye because your eye was not present at the wryting or working of our redemption you must therefor resort vnto such as maye instruct you of all thinges by the eare And because credit is not lightly to be geauen to an historie which is tolde vs of thinges passing reason therfor they ought to be of good authoritie whose wordes we should beleiue in the articles of euerlasting saluation But there can be no greater then the testimonye of all Christendome and they be few obscure and vnknowen whom you would haue to be our masters therefore no reasonable and wyse man will suspect the authoritie of the world and falsely persuade hym selfe that he beleiueth Christ or his Apostles when he hath contemned the voyce of Christendome which caused him to beleiue in Christ and credit his Apostles For how know you what doctryne Christ or his Apostles haue taught in the world Yf you know it by the scriptures what perswadeth you these scriptures to be true For when any new scripture and vnherd of vs before is alleaged or coÌ„mended vnto vs by a few without any reason which is able to confirme it we beleiue not first the scripture but them rather which browght it forth vnto vs. Therefore who told you that these be true scriptures If you name Luther and such as he was you haue done very rashly to beleiue incredible articles at the report of an vpstart rennegate which confirmed his authoritie by no myracle But on the other syde if Luther and you both haue ben content to receiue the scriptures of the Catholikes lest you should be accompted ouer frantyke or scrupulous in doubting whether al Christendome were not deceiued therein by what reason then can you suspect the contynuance pietye learnyng and multitude of Catholikes in the church of God and referr your selfe vnto Christ and his Apostles with contempt of the mysticall bodye of our Sauiour whereas you could not by reason without myracle beleiue in Christ and trust the Apostles except the authoritie of the Catholike church which you see to contynew in the world dyd moue you I wold not beleiue the Ghospell sayeth holye S. Augustine except the authoritie of the Catholike church dyd moue me thervnto Wherfore the contynuance of .ix. hundred yeares is and should be so worthelye regarded that eueÌ„ the authoritie of the church which now is shold by her selfe perswade you to beleiue her But say you our possession which we bragg of hath not ben quyet For in the .600 next after Christ our doctrines were neuer heard of which is a very fowle lye as it hath ben allready here before proued and as coÌ„cerning the 900. folowing they dyd not take
was betwene S. Augustine and the Donatistes We seeke for the church and the place where she resteth You say that it hath ben vnknowen defaced obscured and coarcted you saye that it is now in England and before these last .lx. yeares you knew not where she was to be founde On the other syde we beleiue that it hath ben and shall be continually visible tholike vpon the topp of the hill not in gardens or chambers not in corners of countreyes but in the open sight of the worlde And here now at this point we shal haue no other thing but our yea and our nay Yes saye you lett the matter be tryed by scripture So lett it be and because you are so trymlye seene in them that you will make vs altogeather ignorant shewe vs your scriptures to proue your pretie narrow and shamefast churche Yf you can shewe none reade for the truthes sake those places which we shall name vnto you In thy seede all nations shall be blessed Aske of me and I wyll geaue the for thy heritage the Gentyles He meaning the Messias shall rule frō sea vnto sea and from the floud euen vnto the endes of the worlde Agayne The stone which was cutt out of the hyll without handes fylled the whole worlde So it hath ben wrytten and so it behoued Christ to suffre and repentance and remission of synnes to be preached in his name through all nations You shall be my wytnesses in Iury and Samaria and vnto the endes of the earthe But what of all this Marye Syr that you shold reade in these scriptures how playnly it was promysed that the whole world should be Christ his inheritage and that his churche should be sought for not in pelting corners of Africa of Europa or Asia not in wyttenberge Geneua or England but in all nations and in all countreyes of the world And if you myslyke this our cōclusion gathered out of these places of scripture consider then better then you haue done S. Augustins reasoning against Petilian and against all other Donatistes when so euer he wrote against them as in his 162. 166. 170. 171. and other of his epistles In all which places he proueth that it is vnpossible that Donate which was an vpstart heretike in Africa should haue the truth on his syde because the scriptures do so playnlye promyse vs that the church of Christ should be enlarged ouer the whole worlde and because it was so sensibly performed that euery one might see that churche which was extended through all nations Now if you haue any scriptures or authorityes or reasons to proue that the church should not be openly knowen for 900. yeares togeather or that about the yeare of our Lorde God .1500 the light of the Ghospell should begynne to appeare or that the churche may be in one countrey only or that Christ shold leese his inheritage which was promysed hym ouer the world or that all the dryfte of S. Augustyns reasoning against the Donatistes doth not expresly make against you then shall you speake somewhat worth the answering Against which tyme prouyde also to tell vs how S. Cyprian whom you alleage to proue that recourse should be had to the scriptures doth make any thing for you Yea rather he maketh cleane against you and if you had taken but small leysure to consider hym he teacheth you that to come vnto the truth and to be sure of it there is an other and better waye then you haue yet inuented For after those wordes Hereof aryse schysmes because we seeke not to the head nor haue recourse vnto the spring nor keepe the cōmaundementes of the heauenly master After which wordes you make a full point as though you had tolde all his meanyng he saieth further that to proue this there is no neede of long talke or reasonyng Our Lorde spake vnto Peter and sayed I tell the thow art Peter and vpon this rock I wyll buyld my church and the gates of hell shall not overcome it c. And allthough he gaue lyke authoritie vnto all his Apostles after his resurrection and said Euen as my father sent me I also sent you receyue you the holyghost yf you remyt any man his synnes they are forgeauen hym yf you reteyne them they are reteyned yet that he might make playne and set furth an vnitie he disposed by his owne authoritie the head and spring of that vnitie which beginneth of one And a lytle after he sayeth Doeth he beleiue that he holdeth and keepeth his fayth which keepth not this vnitie of the church How then could you bring in S. Cyprian in the commendatyon of anye of your two markes of the church which so expressely warneth you to consider the vnitie thereof and the authoritie which was geauen vnto S. Peter in which vnitie who so euer is not found hath lost all true fayth crake he neuer so much of his sacramentes and scriptures But now because it is not inough to declare that your markes of the church are vncertayne and controuersious except we geaue some better signes which may leade all men vnto the true church therfore it is to considered what we professe openlye in one of the articles of our Crede I beleiue sayeth euery Christian one holye Catholike and Apostolike church and if he knoweth also what he speaketh then shall he neuer be to seeking of the churche For she must be fyrst of all One church that is to saye she must haue one profession of fayth one ordre in sacramentes and one head for her gouernement by which one worde thei be quicklye tryed for no good Christians which can neuer agree vpon their fayth or haue no certayne head or gouernour Secondlye the church is holye in this sense either because none are holye which are out of this church either because she hath ben bought with bloud a deare price either because she is stable and inuiolable Which note doth warne vs to beware of them which haue no contynuance in their religion but are quyckely altered at euery new preachers inuention Thirdly the church must be Catholike which is to say she must goe through the whole world not only in respect of place but also of persons and tyme wherevpon it foloweth that all such religion as lurketh only in particular countreyes or which hath no antiquitie and contynuance at all is to be reiected as a singuler naught and no Catholike or good religion And last of all the true church must be Apostolike by which worde I meane that if they of England now or those of Geneua can by degrees ascende and frō one minister vnto an other go vpwardes in a cōtynual ordre vntyll they do come vnto one of the Apostles whō they will proue to haue ben a father to their religion that then they haue one good signe to commende their doinges But because this is vnpossible to be doone of them therfore they are not