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A23611 A defence of true Protestants, abused for the service of popery, under the name of Presbyterians in a dialogue between A. and L. two sons of the church : where it is debated, whether discenting Presbyterians be as bad or worse than papists : and other popish assertions are detected. 1680 (1680) Wing A1; ESTC R21360 17,633 34

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is saies he that the truth in these Opinions not being so generally entertain'd among the Clergy nor the Arch-Bishop and the greater part of the Prelates so inclinable to them as to venture the determining of these Points to a Convocation How far then were these Opinions from being counted the Doctrine of our Church when there was no expectation that they would be accounted Truths by our Church representative Sure they act more agreeably to the sense of the Church of England thus far who reject these Arminian Tenets then they who embrace them L. But though the Presbyterians hold all the points of the Protestant Religion yet they maintain other Opinions besides such as are pernicious to Civel Government and Secular Princes upon this account they may be said to be worse than Papists their Principles of this nature being more dangerous A. I have heard some such thing said diverse times but I must do them this right as to declare that I never saw it proved nor ever expect it Upon a strict Inquiry I find their principles about Civel Government to be no other than what the eminentest of our Prelates and learned Divines such as Bishop Jewel Mr. Hooker Bishop Bilson Bishop Morton c. have owned or defended so far is it from being true that their opinions herein are as bad or worse than the Papists And they may challenge all the Papists in England masqued and unmasqued to make it good from the Writings of any considerable Divines approved by those of that Denomination But that you may have a more particular satisfaction let us take a view of some Popish Principles respecting Civel Government and Humane Societies some wherein we are particularly concerned and then compare them with those charged on the Presbyterians by their bitterest enemies They hold That all Protestants are Hereticks and as such excommunicated and accursed That no sort of Protestant Magistrates or others have any just Title to Estate Liberty or Honour but may lawfully be stript of all That they ought to be put to death and burnt alive when they are in their Power That when they can't proceed judicially against them they ought to destroy them by open Wars and Massacres or Assassinations That all Lawes Divine and Humane will have them destroyed That it is not only lawful but a Pious and Meritorious Act to slaughter them That it is no more sin to kill them than to kill a Wolf or a Dog That by what obligations soever either of Kindred Friendship Loyalty or Subjection they be bound unto them they may or rather must take Arms against them being Hereticks and then must they take them to be Hereticks when their lawful Popes adjudge them to be so That those who will not promote the Catholick Interest by Warrs and Arms ought to be proscribed and a Reward proclaimed to those that kill them That they are worser than Turks and that it is more just and necessary to exterminate them by force of Arms than to overcome the Turks That no Peace is to be made no Commerce to be kept with them That no Faith is to be kept with them though confirm'd with Oaths That a forreign Bishops is supream Governour of these Dominions in all matters Ecclesiastick and in temopral matters also in order to Spiritual Concerns That England is the Popes Kingdom and the King of England is the Popes Subject even in Temporals and holds his Dominions of him in Fee That no Maegistrate among us hath any Jurisdicton That they are not obliged to Answer their Interrogatories nor owe them any more reverence or subjection than to meer private Persons That they may delude them with Equivocations in Assertions or Oaths and may usesuch Equivocations when they are sworn before the Magistrate not to Equivocate That it is no Mortal Sin to Charge false Crimes upon or bear False Witness against any in their own Defence That it is no Sin to kill those who go about to discover the Crimes they are guilty of That Bishops are not the Subjects of Secular Princes That they cannot be Guilty of Treason That Churchmen are exempted from all Jurisdiction of Civel Magistrates That the Pope may exempt Lay-men as well as the Clergy That no Protestants Nobles or Commons can be Members of Parliament That Laws not agreeable to the Roman Decrees are of no moment That since a Wife owes no Conjugal Duty to an Husband who is not a Papist nor a Slave any Service to his Master and Parents loose the Superiority and Dominion which they have by the Law of Nature over their Children therefore no man should wonder that in the like case a Soveraign should loose his Superiority and Right over his People and Kingdomes That the Pope may command the King's Subjects not to Obey him That he may Compel them into Rebellion That he can absolve Subjects from the Oaths of Allegiance and Obedience to their Prince and the Princes from Oaths Oblieging them to their Subjects That an Heretical or Protestant King is no King That he is a Tyrant and Usurper and may be used accordingly That to acknowledge such a King is to advance a Dog to be Soveraign over Men. That he hath no real Majesty or Soveraignty That no Treason can be committed against him That he can enact no Laws nor is capable of any Acts of Sovereignty That Acts of Jurisdiction done by his Authority are Void and Null by the Law of God and Man That no War can lawfully be denounced or waged by him though the Cause be never so just That no Leagues Treaties Confederacies for his advantage as a Heretick however confirmed do obliege Catholicks That they may lawfully betray their Trust and deliver up to the Enemy what their Prince commits to their Charge Garrisons Troops Magazines Treasure c. That a Prince falling from Popery looseth all his Authority and Dignity even before Sentence That after Sentence no Man can lawfully Serve or give Aid unto such a Prince That he not only may lawfully but ought in Conscience to be Dethroned Subjects being bound to it by the Divine Precept and upon their Salvation That it is the Subjects Duty to take up Arms against him That the Pope may Depose a King not only for Heresy or Tyranny or Sacriledge or Perjury or Breach of Promise or Effeminacy or any of these many Faults which are liable to Excommunications but also for favouring Heriticks or tolerating Schismaticks or for Profuseness in spending the Publick Treasure yea or for Ignorance or Negligence or Insufficiency or Weakness of Mind or Body That if a Prince be never so well qualified for Religion or other Accomplishments the Pope may Dethrone him if his Holiness think it but Expedient Nay he may do it without any Cause and dispose of his Kingdom as he lists That if Princes be Protestants he hath as much Right to throw them out of their Thrones as we have to drive away Wolves or Mad Dogs or Wild Asses That