ruling Elder is set up in the church and none before after this the Deaconesse and things concerning the Kingdom that is the church administrations were given them after Christs resurrection Act 1.3 by especiall direction P. 12. It was grosse when the word Church was only taken for your places of assembly c. Dr. The denomination of your place of meeting by the name Church when the continens is used pro contento is not incongruous but consonant to Scripture 1 Cor 1.18 with 20 22. Resp Sir it is incongruous for a man to quarrel with one agrees with him and to take the word Church in Scripture only for a meeting place is worse but I think I proved to your hand more clearly or Mr Mead for me that which you here assert in the same Book p. 56. from 1 Cor 11.22 But you were weary spending any more time and ink in the reading and correcting of this smoky piece and so left off before you came to the end and saw it not or rather you dare not deal with that as with this it comes closer to your coyned government Dr. Mixt Assemblyes do not make voyd the truth of the Church if Gods Ordinances be observed therein and the true Doctrine taught and received Resp 1. This is but your saying they do not it is little worth with those argue against you especially when it is against the truth 2. Your Hypothesis is drawn aâ— impossible for God's Ordinances cannot be observed in mixed societies 3. Shew me one church constituted of the Gospel constitution of a Nationall mixt society and I will shew you all others be the contrary constituted and more then 100 years after that were approved by approved Authors Pag. 12. There are to be three distinct Teachers in every Church Dr. It is not clear that these three are to be distinct and perpetuall in ordinary all this is said at random and without ground Resp 1. Sir it is as clear as Scripture can make them yet as clear as they are I cannot make your eies see them the smoke being on them take away the smoke and they will appear to be three distinct ordinary Teachers 2. That that was ordinary in the Apostles time that is to be ordinary in every true constituted Church for ever and it hath a Gospel ground but your single ministry hath no foot for a foundation from Christ but Antichrist you acknowledge Pastors and Teachers why have ye not them set up in your societies sure it will not suit with the constitution of your Church or with your profit or something Pag. 13. Galat 2.9 James is Evangelist Peter Pastor John Teacher Dr. These things are meer fancies without any proof from Scripture and altogether inconsistent with the Apostolicall charge Resp 1. Sir what means 2 Pet 5.1 where Peter calleth himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If not that in some constituted Church he was joyned with others in the ministry 2. Sir in my Treatise of The Resurrection of faln Churches I have proved by the testimony of Tertullian Ireneus and others that the Apostles were the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem men whose testimony is to be received before all the testimony of the Presbyters living 3. Is it more inconsistent with these to do thus among the Jews in the Mother Church then with Paul to do these among the Gentiles 2 Tim 1.11 and with Barnabas Peter and Iohn with Philip at Samaria Act 8.14.25 and why not at Ierusalem â—r Doctor Pag 13. That the Gospel was preached in the Synagogue as to mixt multitudes Dr. These proofs are such silly inferences that it is tedious to reflect upon them and examine them they are even ridiculous Resp Sir you are not the first have made a mock at the truth of the Gospel their disputing and reasoning differâ—d from Church teaching as a work of the Catechist which when men were sufficiently wrote on were separated from the multitude to the believers society as in the Acts 18.4 7 11. and is a thing deserves more study then you are willing to spare about it because it is opposite to your present designs Pag 14. the second part of ministry c. L. 1. Dr. This doth contradict that which he hath been saying all this while his argument formerly taken from the order of words for if the Doctor be the second part of the ministry next the Evangelist then the Pastor is not the second to the Evangelist but these are groundlesse whimseys Resp In the end of the page before I shewed from the words of Christ Math 23.11 He that is greatest amongst you shall be your servant Where I observed Christ shews the Evangelists work was to make way for the Church constitution and so ministred to the Teacher and Pastor And when the Church came to be constituted and that there were men fitted for the Evangelists ministry then some other was constituted to do that work without the Church and the Evangelist did minister the perfecting ministry to the strong men in Christ in which work the Pastor is next him though in the other his ministry preceded the Doctor And this is the groundlesse whimsey which was the practice of the Apostles in their ordinary ministry Paul taught at Corinth before he baptized and then baptized and when the church is constituted he leaves baptizing and that ministry and Evangelizeth 1 Cor 1.14 17. Act 18.4 7 8. Pag 14. Of Iames and Iohns Epistle Dr. The difference of Iames and Iohns stiles the one reproving of vices and faults sharply and the other perswading powerfully to the improvement of grace is no argument of any such thing as he would have inferred that he was a Doctor to the Jewish church in particular But indeed these things are so weak and silly that they are not worth the answering Resp See how this silly man makes the difference of the doctrine to be only in the stile as if the condition of the persons required it not as if any man in that society and to that people Iohn taught might have taught that Doctrine and applyed there that Iames taught â—t è contrario Mark 3.17 was not Iohn as well as Iames the son of thunder Think you among the Apostles was no other conduct of spirit then in your confused Babylonish teaching See if any Epistle writ to any church be like this of Iames Shew any ground from Iames Epistle that it was written to a constituted church I think I shall shew you shortly 20. why it was not P. 14. The whole Doctrine is for Babes Dr. The Apostle writes to young Men and to Fathers as well as to Babes how then is the whole Doctrine for Babes alone but this is like all the rest Resp 1. The Apostle as Apostle had an extraordinary call to write to Fathers and young Men of the Church as wel as Babes 2. That he writes to these is contained all in chap 2. vers 14. Now what and how much of Doctrine
Gospel order for as in Nature a man is first a child before a man though in honour a man is mentioned before a child so in the spirituall estate of Christians likewisâ— 3. As for that the Evangelist is said to be double I have already answered it to an objection already made there-against P. 16. Dr. All these following conjectures are so silly and so little worth the consideration that no wise man will spend time to refute them Resp Sir I did not spend the hundreth part of time to refute your prudential Presbyterian Government which hath but little of the Gospel patern in it at all Sir I tooke it a broad call your brethren to put it together againe if you can I provoke you to it and do not blind the eyes of the world and say They are silly things I will charge you with it your Wit and Learning cannot do it and therefore to save your credit you slight it but this will not serve you alway there is a day comming God will call you to an accompt for your Stewardship Luke 16.2 P. 16. on Colos 3.10.12.15 Dr. What he meanes by this example and to what purpose it is alledged I know not but I am sure he makes inferences from the Apostles words which are meer fancies and no wayes consistant with the Apostles mind in this place alledged for the Apostle doth not speak of the estate of the Church as it was a society but of the duty of every beleever as he is a member in Christ Resp 1. For the alledging it I did it to that purpose before I ever read Dionysius that he doth who shall tell you for me why I alledged it Dionysius chap. 6. Eccl. Hierar prioris autem vestis posiâ—io alteriusque assumptio migrationem illam à media vita licet sacra ad perfectionem significat sicut in divina regeneratione promotionem judicabat a purgata vita ad contemplautem illuminanâ—emque habitum illa vestis caudentis immutatio This was a received truth when Presbyterian Government as now it is was hid in the bottome of that bottomlesse pit 2. That the Church here is spoken of as to a Society I will maintaine according to my brief Analisis and exposition made on the whole Epistle in my Treatise of The Resurrection of fallen Churches as is made to appear which I provoke you to object against if you can P. 17. Dr. Suppose all these in the Paragraphs to be true how will the inference be made good that an Evangelist is a perpetual and ordinary ministry in the Church Resp 1. Methinks you should deal honestly with the truth and say they are true or shew wherein they are false to what purpose is your arguing in this kind else 2. How the inference will be made good that the Evangelist is a perpetual ordinary officer lieth at the Assembly door proved in my Letters waiting when you wil be at leisure to give them an Answer anâ— especially in that particular we have a proverb no man is so blind as he that will not see you need not enquire how Mr Doctor P. 17. 1 Thes 2.1 Our entrance Dr. From the particle our to infer were ministers joyned with him is no true ground the Apostle speaks of himself alone in the plurall number in many places 2 Cor. 10.1 2 3 4. and chap. 1. v. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 and elsewhere Resp 1. That the Apostle in this place had others joyned with him is clear Eph. 2.19 Paul Silvanus Timothy are those he calleth us and our in the whole Epistle 2. The Apostle speakes indeed himself but for Timothy and himself Timothy is joyned with him 3. By that chap. 1. with that whole leâ—ie of verses in our is the Church mentioned 〈◊〉 as in we Timothy and Paul in verse 1. Which proves he had others joyned with him and reason and sence will tell wherein ministers are one in the Scripture sence P. 18 Apply hence we may c. Dr. From the premises you may as wel conclude that there is a four-fold or five-fold administration in the ministry for if the number of Pauls co-adjutors be the medium of the argument then so many helpers as he had so many administrations there are hence it is clear you are an exâ—reamly weake man Resp Sir would it not be a wonderful shame that such a stronge man like that Philistime should be overcome by weak means nay weaknesse it self Sir if you wil not boggle with the truth I wil mainetaine that the Apostles helpers are the medium of the argument so that you understand it of such as at one and the same time and in one Church only did help him in the Ministry but who would think you would take all 〈◊〉 his helpers in several Churches to be accounted of as in one Church doe you 〈◊〉 the word in simplicity and Godly sincerity now I appeal to God and your conscience in these things P. 18. Comming to shew how the Extraordinary and Ordinary Administrations differ Dr. Haec omnia gratis dicta and doe not conâ—â—â—â— with that which hath been said formerly Resp Et tibi gratis concessa for before I only spake of the ordinary Church Ministry now of ordinary and extraordinary also and so you are never the wiser At first Christ administred to Apostles Apostles and Prophets to Evangelist Pastors and Teachers Evangelists to men Pastors to youth Teachers to infants Object You inserted not the Pastor and his administration Resp As the Apostle 2 Tim. 1.12 putting downe the two extreams of the Church Ministry comprehends the rest so in the first and last of the ordinary Church ministry is comprehended the middle P. 19. Dr. These allusions are no ground for a divine institution which at all hath not been shewed Ergo Resp Allusions nor nothing besides are any thing with you that serve you not Rom. 2.20 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where the Babe is under the Teachers ministry or administration the Pastor helps on to perfect us as youth that under the administration of the Evangelists ministry we may be men in Christ Eph. 4.11.12.13 applied to the whole Church ministry P. 21. John 21.15 16 17. Dr. This is like the rest of your arguments to find Misteries where there are none and to build arguments upon them is all along your way it may be granted and is a truth that there is a distinction between Lambs and Sheep and between theâ— feeding and feeding of Sheep 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differunt modo the first is properly to feed them with meat the other rule and guide them but all these duties are recommended to one and the same man and this instalement of Peter in his office by sufficient grounds to infer that which you would gather from thence in the same Pastoral and Doctrinal charge and this is to be done without the coyning of a new office Resp Mr. Doctor you must
begin with an O yes still for fear least no man would not heed what ye say and did they heed you rightly they would take heed how they read your writings I hope you are more just in your cases of conscience 1. You acknowledge part of the truth but not all here are three sorts expressed and differenced clearly in their feeding why do not you ingeniously confesse it or deny it by argument but you confesse only what will serve your owne turne this will not availe in the day of Christ 2. You have two sorts of feeding the one with meat the other with rule yet both sorts are fed alike but Sir where is the third what is it or is it not in the Text or are you not willing to have it there or known it is there and then the Lambs are fed with Doctrine Sheep with rule 3. These are recommended to one man but was he not an extraordinary officer and were they not several administrations given unto him 4. If I prove the office from the Scripture by institution practise and continuance how can you say it is a new coyned office you have not one of these to shew for your single Nationall Church ministry in all the book of Christ yea in the Name of Christ either prove your call and ministry or lay it downe or this will be a witnesse against you at the last day Dr. If this be your clearest proof it is clear you have no proof at all but make your fancy and wrong application of the Text all your proof this proves no more then that Peter was fully re-installed unto his office and that notwithstanding his threefold deniall he was againe thrice admitted to his charge â—nd to all the objects and parts of it Resp Sir to all understanding men you clear up the truths of my Treatise and bring a darknesse on your selfe and judgement what twelve moneths time to find out Peters re-instalement and to put in a few empty lines and to put it in againe and againe you should have put it in a little further off if that were it you aimed at but Sir pray what do you make of Peter a Pope indeed or I pray Sir tell me what expresse Scripture have you to prove that Peter lost or was put out of his Apostleship or if you will his Bishops See that he was now re-installed and that nothing else but his three-fold re-instalment must be understood in this place I believe you had this from some Popish Priest or Postill pray Sir at the call of any of the Apostles had they a three-fold instalement as you here set downe if not why should they have it at their re-instalment had Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile before he fell and shall his Episcopacy Sir I know none that lost his Episcopacy but Judas of the Apostles you are in a Popish dream the Lord awaken you are there several feedings of which one sort are fed with rule only good Mr Doctor P. 22. 2 Cor. 6.1 Dr. The Apostles meaning is that men worke together with God that is every minister is in his own work subordinate unto God it is then impertinent to make this inference it is not the work of one man alone many men may work in one and the same worke and one may have diverse workes as the objects differ one Shepheard maâ—â— at one time feed both Lambs and Sheep Resp Sir Hereunto I have not had 14 houres time to copy out your breviary and returne you this Answer in a little longer time I should deal better with you but any rational man that wil look on the Text and see your falaciousnesse may tract you and know you you say the meaning is that men worke togâ—ther 1. What men 1 Cor. 1.19 are they not we Paul Silvanus and Timothy or what were they 2. Where did they work was it not in the Church of Corinth 3. How did they work was it not together in ministry Now to this you seem to agree but then after in your after exposition because you feared the former like fire that might burn your double doctrine you fly to an exposition quite contrary to truth that serves your selfe every eie may see where you were going and as for part of the inferences they are like your doctrine corrupt and none of mine it is your chief art and skill to man inferences you make none good of your owne nor deduce those honestly mine P. 23. He that plants and he that waters are one 1 Cor. 3.8 Dr. By one in this place is not meant so much the ministry as the efficacy and vertue thereof that is they are as to the bringing forth of the effect as one thing that is of no efficacy but only outward instruments servants of God Resp 1. I cannot but admire how men do befoole themselves when they fight against the truth saith he they are as to the bringing forth of the effect as one and the same thing that is of nâ— efficacy it is learnedly cleared 2. Consider this is first spoke of Paul and Apollo and here relates to them and their ministry in the pronoun quis and after more clearly in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is unum â—â—ministerium againe every one hath his own reward according to his owne labour ver 9. we are labourers together now judge if here be not intended onely Ministers and Ministry and the Doctors glosse very spurious and corrupt worse then whimsicall P. 23. 2 Cor. 1.15 That in no constituted Church we read of no more but three in fellowship of Ministry ordinarily Dr. These are weake conjectures and can make no such in probability as are inferred on them Resp I beseech the Reader see I propose texts of Scripture and affirme that in no constituted Church were more or should be lesse the Doctor cannot disprove it by the word that confirms it abundantly and therefore he shakes it off with a conjecture only pray see of what authority the Scripture is with these kind of men â—or â—y â— Church patterne in the Gospel P. 23. We do that never Apostle did doe Dr. Was not Peter bound by the charge that was given him to feed both Lambs and Sheep as well the young as the old by giving them their meat and ruling them Resp 1. As Apostle he had this charge but this warrants not us in our practise being ordâ—â—â—â—â— ministers by a ordinary call 2. The Apostles had â—uthority for all that from them authority may be communicated to others in an ordinary way 3. Ordinarily and so I intend no Apostle did the whole ministery what meanes the mentioning of their co-workers so oft else and that of Acts 10.48 Dr. I say that every one that is called to the Ministry is bound to do all that God doth inable him to doe both to Teach and to Rule as the occasions do require his service Resp 1. You have Mr Doctor a dixi for it if
of qua distinct from the Aopstles Eph. 4.11 How sad a thing is it to see a Doctor so deceived are all the rest spoken of as distinct and doth he dream this is not see then if the Apostle hath in any other Scripture distinguished them if he seeth it not heer 1 Cor. 12.28 God hath placed in the Church first Apostles 2. Prophets see if God hath not distinguished them by a first and second This man would have confounded the Church Ministry mâ—king of two one with the men of his mind it is nothing to make all one 4. He tels us by foundation was not ment the Apostles but their Doctrine I having cited the text Eph. 2.20 this is clear enough expressed that it is the foundation of the Apostles not that the Apostles as the Papists say of Peter are the foundations of the Church there was no foundation for the Doctor to make this learned exception P. 5. Dr. The Church of the Gospel is built on the truths delivered by the old Prophets as is clear by Acts 26.22 Luke 24.27 2 Pet. 1.19 Resp To me it is much to see so grave a man fight with his own shadow for in this he hath not hit me at all I granted this in my Book which might wel have saved him his learned labour Dr. But the Prophets subordinate to the Apostles were no more founders to the Church then the Evangelists Resp For men of reputed learning and esteeme I see it is nothing to say any thing though never so clear against the truth Eph. 2.20 we are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets I provoke you Mr Doctor to shew where it is said that we are built upon the Evangelists Dr. Titus was no where called Evangelist was he therefore none Resp Mr. Doctor How shall I believe he was if the Scripture say not of him he was one I am sure you have no Gospel makes him such that ever he wrote unlesse it be one lately brought from Rome Dr. What need Marke and Luke be called Evangelists seeing their worke doth speake them such Resp You may easily see Mr. Doctor is good at the begging of the question and passing by the matter objected viz. That the Evangelists office 2 Tim. 4 5. is a ministeriall Church worke and not a writing work as I have proved at large in my Letters sent to the Assembly and printed but not Answered because you have not leisure as in your Letters formerly you say concerning this Book Dr. The worke of an Evangalist is not only to Preach but to order matters by Apostolical direction Tit. 1.5 Resp 1. This then shewes your Evangelist was no extraordinary officer in the Church for what he did he did by direction as you and I should do in the Church were we faithful and no otherwise 2. In my forme of Gospel Government for Gospel Churches and in this book you so sift to find chaffe in I have allowed as well Government as Teaching to the Church Ministry according to Jesus Christ and you prove no more for Titus is not for this worke here or any where called Evangelist nor were any where else for that particular act Dr. Is not the writing the history of Christ's life the worke of an Evangelist and if Marke and Luke did this why should they not be called Evangelists Resp An risum teneatis amiei Mr Doctor if they did this why yet should they be called Evangelists unlesse you can canonise them for such by authority of the Presbytery that now is Doctor And is not the work extraordinary was it not indited and directed by the Spirit in Mark and Luke as well as in Mathew and John Resp M. Doctor When you wrot notes on my Book and had it communicated in that disgracefull way as this was I thought you had not vented your self into such like Quries as these 2. A man would have thought your reading would have taught you to distinguish between an Apostle and an Evangilist 3. I thought my former letter to you of this point would have made you blot out this dul notion seeing the Gospel you so much talk of Luke 1. was by him but a setting in order things believed amongst us as himself saith and not inspired into him ver 2. As they delivered them to us And here M. Doctor Who were these but Mark and Luke and then by whom but by eie witnsses which were it is likely Matthew and John with the rest of the Apostles and it may be said of the seventy of which Mark and Luke were not but had it from them that were as is plain and clear to him that is not blinded Doctor And is not the hystory of Christ a fundamentall truth of the Gospel Resp And M. Doctor The Amanuenses of many of the Psalms thâ— Prophets the Epistle of the Romans Tertius Rom. 16.22 were not made there by Evangelists yet are their writings not authoritative they being dictated to by the Apostles and Prophets P. 6. Dr. Rom. 10.15 From Esay 52.7 Is not to be understood of the distinct office of the Evangelist as he differs from the Apostle Prophet Pastor and Teacher but to Evangelize there doth comprehend all the testimony of Jesus in all respects but especially of the Apostles worke and if this be so then from the generall denomination of Evangelizing the distinct office of the Evangelist can be no more proved to be ordinary then from the generall name of Messengers 2 Cor. 8.23 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the Apostolical Office is ordinary as Preachers are in some sense Evangelists viz. in respect of the glad tydings that they preach Resp That Evangelizing was applyed to the whole Gospel ministry I granted and thence proved that it was an ordinary Office in the Church yet to teach and apply peace with the good things of the Gospel to the strong men in Christ onely was the proper worke of the Church Evangelist to which Paul applieth that of 1 Cor. 1.17 he distinguishing the Teachers Ministry under the act of Baptizing who taught also and the Evangelists Ministry which Paul in Corinth as an ordinary Minister officiated with other his fellow helpers 2. For your parallel place 2 Cor. 8.23 I would you would take your Bible and see how God distinguished these Apostles from the others 1 Cor. 1.1 Eph. 1.1 Collos 1.1 Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ the Apostles 2 Cor. 8.23 are Apostles of the Churches Sir I may say to you of this as Christ to the blind Pharisees ye errre not knowing the Scriptures so that this Scripture proves not any hinderance to my conclusion as you seem to affirme but that thence it appears because the name is given in common to the ordinary Ministry it was but an ordinary office in the Church which oft as Pastors and Teachers to remaine therein to the end Dr. That Timothy and Titus were imployed only about one place is so directly opposite to Scripture that nothing can
be more and it was aproperty of the Evangelists office as distinct from the rest and extraordinary to be fixed to no place but to be fellow helpers to the Apostles 2 Cor. 8.23 Resp 1. Reader see how willing the Doctor is to catch at flies and observe the thing he quarrels at is no saying of mine but Chrysostomes on Eph. 4.11 qui occupabantur circa unum duntaxat locum ut Timotheus ac Titus he speaking before of Evangelists 2. For his Scripture being more to be looked after then his arguments 2 Cor. 8.23 Titus is Pauls fâ—llow-helper here he is not called an Evangelist nor was he but Pastor or Teacher in the Church with him onely 2 Tim. 4.5 Paul being to die bid him do the worke of an evangelist and before that time with Paul he never did it Paul in fellowship did that worke P. 7. Dr. Rule of the Schools is true quod Theologia Symbolica est argumenâ—â—tiva Resp Sir I despise not Learning nor the Schooles but the too much tying of men to the Rules of Schooles took away all knowledge and made men fooles heretofore I thinke no Scripture but is argumentive unlesse by the Scripture you overthrow my argument this is a fine way of Answering objections approved in the Schools but not in the Church P. 8. Dr. John's Ministry was medium quid inter legem Evangelium and made both one in that which was substanciall unto both Resp I approve of your learned distinction well which was in my Book made thus to your hand in English that he was not of Moses Ministry Mat. 11.13 nor of Kingdome Ministry ver 11. 2. But that he made both 〈◊〉 that is the Ministry of both one is a thing found out by long study in the Assembly who have found a way to make one two and two one as the Doctor in the Church and the Doctâ—r in the University to be meant in Epb. 4.11 as in your Propositions or for what end is it set there but to blind the world Dr. This is a silly weak Criticisme and there is more inferred upon it then it wil bear 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ only in modâ— the same word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it is publiquely declared in the name of God it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and as it is declared to men that are ignorant thereof it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is therefore no ground for a different administration for he that in respect of God is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in respect of men is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Resp 1. Sir If I did criticie it was not wilfully and so it may well be weakly but you do it over and over I do not tell you it is sillily done sure I am you have overdone it I am loath to shew you least you should be ashamed at it 2 Tim. 1.11 Paul is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here lest you criticks of the Assembly should make the ministry without the Church and that within the Church one he puts the Apostle between to keep them asunder and prove them too 2. Here in respect of God he is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is false Doctrine Mr Doctor the Apostle saith as Preacher and Teacher he was both in respect of his ministry to men onely and that in differing wayes of ministry the one before the Church ministry which began in the Apostles and ended in the Teachers so that my silly weak Criticism hath the strength of a Gospel truth in it and seemes to beat down your Antichristian Church administration Dr. The arguments which are taken from the order of words and names are of no force except the Scripture adde some Characteristicall note thereunto to expresse that it doth intend the order should be observed as in Eph. 4.11 it doth adde onely a note of distinction but in the 1 Cor. 12.28 it adds a note of order first second third and now Pastors and Teachers are not expressely distingished and from the other as the Apostles Prophets and the Evangelists are and whereas Eph. 4.11 Pastors are named before Teachers 1 Cor. 12.28 only Teachers are named and Evangelists and Pastors are not at all so that in the order of words there can be no great matter to ground such an inference upon Resp Mr Doctor you know my means is short so that I cannot be as large to satisfie the world or you as I would but thus briefly thus before you perverted the Scripture now you seek to take away the glory of it Sir the word is divine not only materialiter but 〈◊〉 formaliter and yet you dare say arguments are not to be taken from the order of words and then come to set Ephesians and Corinths one to oppose the other when indeed they both oppose you shewing you none but Apostles are of the first ranke and so are distinct from Prophets of the second for the third they are all Teachers among which the Evangelist is one with the Pastor and Teacher of which one is not more extraordinary then the other Sir pray see my Letters to the Assembly these are both at large and satisfactorily laid down in them 2. You observe the Pastors and Teachers are not distinguished by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Evangelists and Pastors yet you and the grossest Papists allow of Pastors and Teachers not distinguished but confound Evangelists that are is this of God in your Assembly P. 9. Now for an insertion laid downe in my Book that the Ministry without the Church is to be continued stil to prepare for the Church ministry Mr Doctor saith this consequence is so very weake that it deserveth no answer and the ground of it is taken away by what hath been said before Resp Mr Doctor hath quickly done with the businesse but I cannot but wonder that wise men should dally with the truth and deceive the world That Scripture 2 Tim. 1.11 will one day rise in judgement against some men of these dayes I pray look unto it well you that are concerned in it Dr. If a calling of men fitly qualified and setting them apart according to the word maketh men ministers then we have a ministry but the antecedent is true Ergo the Conseâ—ence Resp I denie your major first that your calling is not according to the word nor are you set a part according to the word nor are you members of a true visible constituted Church and so cannot be in that kind fitly qualified but of this pray see my book called The mistery of the Ministry Dr. Also the office of a Pastor and Teacher is undoubtedly ordinary and by his owne confâ—ssion it presupposeth a Church in which it is exercised hath not the Church continued ever since the Apostles Resp I would you would learn to confesse the truth also as I do but Sir though I confesse they are ordinary Teachers yet I confesse not
that they are so ordinary as to be any where but in a true visible Constituted Church only which hath or ought to have the Evangelist also in ordinary As to the Question I Answer there hath not been this 1240 year a visible Church in which rightly have been the true Church ministry and right Church constitution though there hath been an invisible Church through all the time in the world 1 Cor. 12.28 God hath placâ—d in the Church these but not out of the Church Dr. The warrant we have is a lawful call to the ministry the Apostle James doth forbid a masterly elusorious way of teaching as is clear by the whole sequel of his discourse Resp Sir The smoke of the Temple offends your eyes yet ye cannot see clearly your Church is no true Church nor that it is as you found the Antichrist of Rome leave it and is no better for its constitution then Rome's Church is Now such as your Church is your call is and such your ministry It is true Indeed James forbids a masterly Teaching and such is yours Sir for you Teach in the Church so by your single Ministry as you have no example in the Scripture for it As for James his Church Church ministry there spoke of was the same with yours not a company of Saints but adulteresses and adulterers Jam. 4.4 persecutors and blasphemers James 2.6 7. their tongues set one fire of hel ful of cursing and bitterness Chap. 3.6 9 and no where called a Church in his Epistle Sir it seemes the more I rub your eyes the worse the smoke troubles youâ— John's first Epistle was written to another manner of Society Dr. It is true Paul did all because every officer of a superiour degree hath authority to do the actions of the inferiour but where are we forbidden to teach must not a minister be chosen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 3.12 Resp 1. He did them all until the Church was constituted where he was but when he had others to Teach and labour with him he took not their worke out of their hands 1 Cor. 1.14 thus Peter Acts 10.48 2. That ye are forbidden to Teach without a lawfull call that is Anticristian 〈…〉 yeâ— you are forbid to Teach as you doe 2 Cor. 10.13 we that is Paul Silvanus Timothy 2 Cor. 1.19 in the name of the full Church ministry Paul saith we wil not boast of things without our measure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mr Doctor pray observe in one Church every minister hath a measure allowed him to Teach by which is laid out as by a rule of which in ministry every man is not to take what he wil as you do but God hath parted to each ministry his doctrine in the Church yea to the Apostles when they taught as ordinary Teachers and to those that taught with them to which Paul alludes 1 Thes 2.4 as we were allowed of God there is a Gospel allowance to Teachers what they should Teach and yet Bishops chosen by teaching that doctrine he was to be called to teach in the Church and not by others P. 10. Dr. Here is no mention of an Evangelist at all how then is it proved hence that he is a perpetual and assistant minister in the Church and if as he saith The Apostle doth speak here of publique Church Ministry and doth not name an Evangelist in it then the argument is strong against him that an Evangelist is not an ordinary publique minister Resp Mr Doctor seems profoundly to argue in this place against nothing pray consider it 1. That in this Scripture Rom. 12.6 7 8. is not mentioned the name of Prophet Pastor or Teacher which he cannot deny but yet are implyed here but because the Evangelist is not set down therfore he hath no place at all though the other may have having the Doctor 's leave 2. The Prophet in prophesy which was before him is implyed and the Pastour in his work of exhortation that comes after him and the Doctor in teaching is implyed And there is Ministry for one in the Evangelist's place but he must not be there unlesse he be set down an Evangelist though all teaching and his emmenter may be called Ministry Sir here cannot be understood any other Church-Teacher whatever nor your Church-Deacon or supposed Elder these follow in vers 8. in giving and ruling Sir I pray take heed of your taking too much liberty in making the Scripture speak against themselves if you forbear that I am sure they will not speak for you at all here Dr. This is a silly and irregular thought for how can a Church be constituted before God give gifts Shall we make Evangelists before God makes them All Pastors and Teachers are in a generall sent Evangelists that is publishers of the Gospel but not in a peculiar sent as he would have the Evangelist to be Resp Reader the cause of the Doctor breaking out into this silly cry is for that in my Book pag. 10. is written whereas the Apostle saith there be divers gifts from this Rom. 12. I think if ever a Church were rightly constituted greater gifts would be bestowed on men then since the Apostles 1. The Doctor understands not that God hath distinguished the Church gift from the Heavenly gift the Church gifts are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are given to men by the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the divine gift God had given them to minister the Church gift by which is the severall cals of the Church ministry Evangelists Pastors Teachers and thus indeed the Church is not to make before God hath made them but after 2. For what cause the Doctor troubles himself about Pastors and Teachers being Evangelists having before written of it and so few unworthy observations of a Doctor and up with it so often shews he wanted matter to object and that the man is mightily troubled about the Evangelist in his mind Dr. This Paragraph is to me a piece of nonsense for I knew not what he would say in it or how it is coherent with this former discourse Resp If the Doctor be silly as he makes himself I wonder he would take upon him in so unworthy a way to send down his notions in so secret a way to disgrace me and my writings privately amongst the ignorant multitude it had been more honour having been provoked to the presse or print to have published some worthy work in defence of their Presbyterian Government set out in the Propositions which I printed against or against that form of Church Government I added to it or prove their Government by the practice of the Primitive Church and disprove that in my Treatise of the resurrection of faln Churches and not in seeking to correct truth for errour in a Book make ten errours when he proves none but the not understood nonsense he talks of is in this The Church ministry is set out oft times by one word in
it contains that this vapour should come from the Doctor I know not Chap 2. vers 1. he begins with Little Children vers 12. and vers 18. chap 3. vers 7. vers 18. chap 4. vers 4. chap 5.21 and in all the Epistle not a word more but in chap 2. vers 13 14. of young Men or Fathers at all P. 14. The third part of Ministry or second of the Church Miniâ—â—ry Dr. This notion of distinguishing the ministry and its parts in abstracto from Church ministry to make the third in the one the second in the other is another whimsey which he frames to himself Resp Was there ever man in so vile a manner would so secretly have wounded the truth and a mans reputation by reproach as this man endeavours calling my distinguishing the Ministry without the Church from that within the Church proudly Notions and whimseys I received base tearms in his Letters before but I answered them in mildnesse and humilitie but this secret trechery I cannot but take notice of 1. Where he saith that I make the third in the one the second in the other is a whimsey of his own head if there be any whimsey in it and none of mine 2. If the man were sensible he would understand that Paul 2 Tim 2.11 was a Preacher an Apostle and a Teacher of the Gentiles 1. See here is a Preacher before the Apostle not in dignity but did in ministry precede the Apostle he being the first in thâ— Chuâ—ch ministry and the Teacher the last as in Eph 4.11 which being the extreams of the Church ministry comprehend the rest of Prophet Evangelist and Pastor under them which I dare to maintain against Mr Doctor by word or writing and prove his language to be but little better then blasphemy and railing Dr. That Saint Peters second Epistle was written to the Jews of his particular charge in Jerusalem is contrary to Peters own words as in 2 Pet. 3.1 it appears the second Epistle was written to whom the first was and it is clear the first was not written to tâ—oâ—e of Jerusalem but to those of Pontus c. 1 Pet. 1.1 So that to please himself in these whimsies he care not what he saith or what conjectures he makes contrary to the text sure when he wrote this his whimsey did blind him so that he did mistake the one Epistle for the other for it is in the first Epistle chap. 1. verse 2. that he gives them the title of the Elect and the dispersed are the Elect by this it appears with what carelesse fantasticalnesse this is written Resp 1. Fri nd in my Epistle to the Reader I let him know of which he also in a Letter wrote me and rebuked me for doing this thing in haste yet see with what bitternesse he carps at a mistake of putting the Elect to the second Epistle which is in the first 2. That I may when I meet with Truth honour it though it should have come from a deâ—â—â—l I do acknowledge the mistake and the pettish man never spake any thing that was considerable but now in this But 1. I commend to be considered where an Epistle formerly written mâ—y not be absent by the malice of the Jewes as one seemes to be of the Corinths 1 Cor. 5.9 2. Lest any man should thinke I should object this without ground to uphold my whimsies and fantasies pray observe 2 Pet. 3.15 he mentions the Epistle of Paul to them which was that of the Hebrews which without question was written to the Church at Jerusalem Heb. 13.23 if Timothy come shortly I will see you which was not the dispersed Jewes in these several parts of the world but the Church at Jerusalem of which after most of his Epistles written from Rome to the Gentiles he writes to Galatia and is going for Jerusalem with Titus 18 years after his conversion nor did he teach the Gospel but to the Church of Jerusalem amongst the Jews Heb. 3.1 he cals them partakers of the heavenly call Acts 18.6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 3. Peters most aboad was at Jerusalem as he that will but observe the History of the Acts mâ—y wel find it and so was James it being agreed that James Peter and John should minister to the Circumcision 4. Timothy it may be could not go up with him at that time for he questions where he would or not Heb. 13.23 and he seemes to speak to a particular People and of a particular place P. 15. The whole Epistle doth concerne such onely as are exercised Dr. This kind of arguing from some words to infer such consequences is so silly and frivolous that a man can scarce consider it with patience Resp I say It is the doctrine of the whole Epistle he saith this is only of some words he should do well to shew that the Epistle doctrinally concerns excercised Christians or that joy it is in some one he begins only with exhortation to grow unto grace and ends with the same the whole matter tending thereunto yet he cries O silly and frivolous as having nothing else to say for himselfe in which he sounds like an empty barrell Dr. Here we have a fourth part of Church ministry even now we had but the second where is then the third of Church ministry then he said before there were but three distinct persons to be Teachers in the Church and now he brings in four Resp 1. Before you have the second Church ministry as you confesse 2. You inquire for third 3. Before you say there were but three distinct persons to be Teachers in the Church 4. I have desired you not to take exceptions at the corruptnesse of the Copy and yet how the good man catches at a flie will not any understanding men that reads it say you want but matter to carp at and to raile a man would scarce believe your empty tearmes when you passe by things you know not how to except against or what to say unto to say they are things not to be considered 〈◊〉 predecessors part you act to the life that was done by the Spanish Cardinall to the Pope on the Letter of Grosted as at leisure you may peruse in the book of Acts and Monuments they were not so wise as you therein nor so subtile as appears in the carriage of this businesse Dr. It contradicts also the former order asserted viz. that the Evangelist is before the Pastor and Teacher and now he is placed behind them so the Evangelist is double both first and last these intricacies do shew that all these things are written aâ— random without any judgement or consideration Resp 1. That the Evangelist is placed behind the Pastor and Teacher is because he is here last handled 2. He that will enumerate the Church officers and begin with the Apostles and goeth downward comes last to the Doctor but he that begins with the Doctor and goeth upward in order to the Apostles doth not destroy the