mens precepts So that as Saint Peter hath censured you 1. Pet. 2.18 Yee are not redeemed from the vaine Traditions of your Fathers Besides you chuse rather to make the Fathers to contradict themselues as I haue shewed in the preface of this treatise than to acknowledge with vs as the trueth is that the Traditions mentioned by the Fathers are no parts or points of the Catholike faith But doeth your Church practise all those Traditions which are deliuered by the Fathers to be either Diuine Apostolicall or Ecclesiasticall Papist Yes and although she did not yet is the Churches authority sufficient to abrogate or admit which she pleaseth Protestant 13 Indéede you take that libertie to your selues without all warrant either of Scripture or Fathers For S Hierome which is one of the Fathers alleaged by you for Traditions Dialo coÌ„tr Lucif ca. 4. deliuereth it as an Apostolike Tradition On the Lords day and throughout euery Penticost neither to pray on the knées nor to fast The temper of milke and honie giuen to them that were newly baptised Tertul. de Coro Milit. Nu. 3. is confirmed by Tertullian who likewise reckoneth vp a number of Rites grounded vpon Tradition As that the baptized should abstaine from washing a whole wéeke after Baptisme with much crossing at euery going out at euery steppe at euery comming in at putting on of apparel at putting on of shooes at washings at tables at lights at beddes at seates c. all these are deliuered as the Apostles Traditions which yet the Papists themselues obserue not And if these be not Apostolike Traditions what warrant haue we for any of the rest For as for the Churches authority in abolishing of these you may say as much of the holy Scriptures for you haue said before That Traditions vnwritten Conc. Trid. Sess 4. were of equall authoritie with the Scriptures But doe you thinke the authority of the ancient Fathers to be a sufficient ground to leade vs to accept of all the Doctrine deliuered by Tradition and that whatsoeuer is deliuered by them is to be receiued without exception Papist Yes the ioynt consent of the Fathers Sta. prine doctr li. 7. ca. 13. li. 1â— ca. 5. Hart. â— ag Ray. ca. â— diui â— is an absolute Rule being indeede the Churches exposition Protestant 14 Then must you wholly relinquish all your doctrine and Traditions vnwritten for all the Fathers doe with ioint consent yéelde all their authority to the Scriptures laying it for a Ground that nothing necessary to saluation is to be beléeued without the authoritie of the Scriptures nay that themselues are not to be credited without the scriptures as shal manifestly appeare by the testimonies of these Fathers following yea S. Augustine is so absolute for vs in most of his bookes * Aug Ep 19 ad Hiero Epi 48 Vincent Ep 111 Fortunatiano Epi 112 to Paulina Cont. FastuÌ„ li 11 c. 5. Contr. Cres gram li. 2 ca 11 32 De Bap coÌ„t Don li. 2. c. 2 De merit remiss peccat cont Pelag. lib 3 cap 7. De natur gra ca. 61 De gracia Christi coÌ„tra Pelag cap. â—â— De nuptijs concupisceÌ„t lib. 2 ca. 23. that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures To whose only authority in many places he professeth that he himselfe will be bound So that you must either make these Fathers contrary to themselues Or else grant that Traditions are not of absolute necessitie to be receiued But for that this is a maine point which the Papists insist on I will cleare the same euidently by foure iust exceptions which I referre to the indifferent censure of anie First I will prooue that the Fathers haue attributed all sufficiencie to the Scriptures and haue submitted all their authorities vnto them Secondly That the Fathers haue held diuers errors vpon which it necessarily followeth that if they might erre in one thing they might erre in another Thirdly that they are often reiected by the Papists yea euen the greater number sometimes contrary to their owne rule and therefore may with as great reasoÌ„ be reiected by vs. Fourthly That there are many counterfâ—its bearing the names of ancient Fathers and that often times they are alleaged by the Papists to abuse vs all which particular exceptions I will briefly prooue in order as they lie First Saint Basil saith Tract de fide it is a most certain argument of infidelity and a most certaine signe of pride if any man wil reiect any of those things that are written or bring in any thing that is not written when our Lord saith My sheepe heare my voice and a stranger they will not heare Tertullian saith De resurrect carnis Take away from Heretikes those things which they hold with Ethnikes that they may stay their questions vpon the Scriptures onely and they are not able to stand Saint Augustine saith De doctr Christ li. 2. ca. 9. All things that concerne faith and manners or beliefe and life are plainely written in the Scriptures Chrysostome saith In 2. ad Thessa Ho. 3 That euery thing is cleare and euident by the Scriptures and whatsoeuer things are necessary they are euident In Eusng Ioh. li. 12 cap. 68. Cyril saith That such of the things done by Christ are written as the writers thought to be sufficient for maners and doctrine Epist 11 inter epist August In the controuersie betwâ—xt S. Austin and S. Hierome touching Peters reproofe Hierome alleaged more Fathers on his side and made so great account of them that he desired Austin to suffer him to erre with such men if he thought him to erre Epist 19. To whom Saint Austin replied that peraduenture he might finde as many if he had read much But I saith he haue Paul the Apostle himselfe in stead of these all and aboue these all To him I doe flie to him doe I appeale from all the doctors his interpreters who are of other minds c. Epist 126 ad Euagrium S. Hierome yéelding his opinion to Euagrius a meane man after he had shewed the iudgements of Origen Didimus Hipollitus Irenaeus Eusebius Cesariensis Emisenus Apollinarius and Eustathius saith To bring foorth the witnesses it was my part let it bée yours to iudge of the credit of the witnesses Orig. Hom 1 super Ieâ—em Origen confesseth That their iudgements without witnesse of the Scriptures were of no credit Hierom. in Psal 98. Hierome writeth That all which they spake they were to proue by the Scriptures Hier. in Maâ— 23. and saith in another place That which hath not authority from the Scriptures as easily is despised as approued Saint Basil saith Basil in Ethicis defiâ— 8. If euery thing that is not of faith be sinne as S. Paul affirmeth and faith come by hearing and hearing â—y the word of God Ergo whatsoeuer is without or besides the Diuine
Christ hauing neuer béene prohibited as vnlawfull vntill the Councell of Constance which was 1400. yéeres after Christ But Controuersies may be ended and heresies abolished either by conuincing those out of the Scriptures that maintaine them as diuers heretikes were before either Pope or Councell were thought of Or by the authoritie of the Magistrate commanding for trueth and inioining their silence and obedience â— Chro. 14. â— 3 4 5. according to the examples of Asa the King of Iudah who commanded his people to doe according to the Law â— Chro. 29. c. And Ezechiah who restored the worship of God and diuers other Kings in the old Testament 2. Chro. 17 ver 3 4 5 8. ca. 19 ver 4 8 9 10 11 c 33. v. 11 12 13 15. câ— 34. v. 3 4 7 29.30 3â— 32 33. câ— 35. v. 1 2 3 4.5 6. as Iehoshaphat Manasses Iosiah and others yea Salomon did dedicate the Temple in his owne person and * 1. King 8. ca. 2. v. 3 cast out Abiathar from being Priest vnto the Lord and placed Zadok in his roume And Saint Austine in many places sheweth Kings are charged with Gods Law in respect of commanding it to others In the times of the Prophets saith he All the Kings which in the people of God did not forbid and ouerthrowe those things Aug. Epi. 5 which were brought in against the commandements of God are blamed and they that did prohibit and subuert such things are praised aboue the rest And for that part of the obiection that wee leaue euery man to his priuate exposition which though therein wee are wrongfully charged by our aduersaries yet the trueth is we challenge not to our selues as the Papists do the true interpretation of the Scriptures as if they were appropriated vnto vs But we submit our selues and our interpretations whatsoeuer according to the Generall and receiued doctrine of the Fathers in that point to be compared and tried by the Scriptures Or to auoide your cauelling if you will to the Church which are men speaking by the Scriptures Neither is this part of the obiection of so great weight or consequence as it may séeme at the first blush For most of the differences betwéene vs and the Papists are not touching the sense of the Scripture séeing it is confessed by learned Papists as I haue prooued in the preface of this booke that most of the doctrines wherein they vary from vs are grounded on Tradition And all men of reason know that where ther is no Text there néedes no Interpreter All the danger therefore lieth in the last part of the obiection when mens corrupt affections may take those things for trueth which are not and reiect those which are a thing impossible to bee preuented since euery man vnderstands according to the capacitie and conceite whereof himselfe is And herein likewise is the doctrine of Christ verefied as Saint Paul sayth 2. Cor. 4.3 If our Gospell bee hidde it is hidde to them that are lost For no man can come vnto mee sayth Christ except the Father which haue sent me drawe him Iohn 6.44 1. Cor. 3.4 6 Yea Paul may plant and Apollo may water but God must giue the increase For though the Sunne bée of most excellent brightnesse yet none can sée it but those which haue eyes euen so is it of the Scriptures which as Saint Peter sayth They that are vnlearned and vnstable 2. Pet. 3.16 doe peruert to their own damnation But shal we leaue the Triall of the Scriptures to which all the Fathers referre vs either because many peruert them or for that the diuel alleaged them or for that it is common to all Heretikes to make challenge and boast of them No for all Heretikes haue béen by the Scriptures rightly vnderstood confuted and confounded yea euen the deuill himselfe Mat. 3.7 as Christs owne example teacheth vs was conuicted by the same weapon wherewith hee thought to haue vanquished our Sauiour But to make this plaine by example what Lawyer will offer to defend a badde cause but hee will bring Lawe for his purpose and shall this debarre or preiudice the other that pleades against him That hée shall not by Lawe conuince the Errours and Sophistries or Quirkes and Quiddities which are brought against him Nay rather anie man of iudgement hauing heard both parties will readily distinguish and say The one makes a a shewe of Lawe but the other hath Lawe indeede And euen thus it rests in those controuersies that are betweene vs and the Papists touching the Sense of the Scripture onely and not for those differences which the maintaine by Tradition Petr. â— Soto adu Brent Canisi in catechi ca. 5. Lindan in pan li. 4. ca. 100. Peresius par 3. Rhe. Test Gal. 2. sect 4 which by the iudgement of their owne men as I haue already shewed are the greater number And albeit the Rhemists would insinuate That the controuersies betweene vs are whether the Iudge or the Euidence bee of greater authority yet that shift will not serue them for all men of iudgement knowe that that is not the question betwéene vs. But the difference is whether the Iudge or the Law bee of greater authoritie where euery wise man will graunt the Lawe to be supreame whereunto the Iudge is to obey and according to which to giue his sentence or else by the Lawe his erronious iudgement is to be reuersed Neither is there other Iudiciall authority in the Church than in the common wealth which is to determine controuersies according to the Lawe and the true meaning thereof And if there be question of the Sense of the Law The Lawmakers minde is to be discussed by his wordes and the circumstances and occasions of making the Lawe And euen so the meaning of the Scripture is to be taken onely out of the Scripture as Clemens saith â—iâ— 37. ca. â—elatum You ought not to seeke a strange and forraine sense without the Scriptures that you may confirme it by any means by the Scriptures But sense of trueth you must take out of the Scriptures themselues Saint Augustine * Confess Aug. praef ad lecto whose doctrine your selues doe acknowledge to be grounded on the lawes the maners the iudgements of all the Catholike Church whom you call a witnesse of the sincere trueth and Catholike Religion such a witnesse as no exception can be made against who assureth you as you say not onely of his owne but also of the common the constant faith and confession of the ancient Fathers and the Apostolike Church This Augustine hath written foure bookes of Christian doctrine wherein he purposely intreateth howe men should vnderstand the Scripture and expound it The summe of all his Treatise doeth aime at this marke That a Aug. de doct Christ li. 1. ca. 2. the meaning of the Scripture must bee learned out of the Scripture by the consideration of things
which be Canonicall and which be Apocrypha Protestant 8 How do you know which is the Church And by what meanes may it be knowen that the Church hath authoritie to determine which be Scriptures and which of them be Canonicall and which be Apocrypha Papist There be many notes and markes reckoned vp by the learned of our side by which the Church may be knowen But we insist chiefly vpon these Antiquitie Vnitie Vniuersality Succession and the power of Miracles And for the authority of the Church it is prooued by the Scriptures Protestant 9 This answere is common to all Heretikes for they alleage somtimes the a Author ope Imper. in Mat. Ho. 48. Church sometime b Iren. adu Haere lib. 3. cap. 2. Traditions sometime c Aug. coÌ„tr Maxim Ariâ— episc li. 1. Councels sometime d De Bapt. c. 6. li. 3. Fathers sometime e In Ioh. ca 2. tract 13 Miracles sometime f De vnit eccle c. 16. Visions sometime g Epist 65. ad gener Succession of Bishops yea h Act. 19.27 Demetrius pretended Vniuersalitie And the i Act. 17 18 19. Philosophers Epicures and Stoickes Antiquity And k Vinc. Lir. ca. 6 ca. 4. Vincentius Lirinensis disproueth Vniuersalitie by the example of the Arrians and Antiquity by the example of the Donatists And for their l In Chron. Suput Rom. prat Sigon de Regn. Ital li. â— Vnitie let that appeare in the seuerall oppositions of their Popes one condemning the decrées of another and decréeing one contrary to another And therefore this is no sufficieÌ„t reason for a man to ground his faith and Religion if we beléeue the m StapletoÌ„ Fortresse Hart. ag Ra. pag. 118. Papists in the like cause for it is a common obiection by them that because Heretikes alleage the Scripture therefore they are no suffieient rule Moreouer this answere passeth the limits of the proposition for it presupposeth the authoritie of the Church to be prooued by the Scriptures and the Scriptures to be prooued by the authority of the Church which is Ignotum per ignotius Idem per idem A proofe of a thing vnknowen by a thing lesse knowen and so no proofe at all Therefore to procéede to the next part of the diuision what doe you vnderstand by Traditions Papist I vnderstand Apostilicall doctrine commonly called vnwritten verities and as D.B. P. in his booke against M. Perkins diuides them Some are Diuine some Apostolicall and some Ecclesiasticall all which according to the Councel of Trent are to be receiued with equall reuerence Conc. Trid. Sess 4. and religious affection as we do the Scriptures Protestant 10 How doe you proue Traditions or vnwritten verities to bee Apostolicall doctrine and that they be Diuine Apostolicall and Ecclesiasticall and that they are to bee receiued with equall reuerence and religious affection as we doe the Scriptures Papist 2. Thess 2 15. I proue it by the Scriptures interpreted by the Church Saint Paul saith Hold the Trations which yee haue learned whether it bee by word Conc. Trid. â—ess 4. or by Epistle which by the Churches exposition proueth vnwritten verities to be receiued with equall authoritie to the Scriptures and to explane the same D.B.P. aforesayd affirmeth that Diuine Traditions come from our Sauiour Christ Apostolicall Traditions from the Apostles And the Decrees of the Church hee tearmeth Ecclesiasticall Traditions which are likewise of equall authoritie with the Scriptures Protestant 11 This is a common fault with you to vse this point of Sophistrie called by the Logicians Petitio principij for you wil stil take it for graunted that you are the Church though you neuer prooue it And this is a necessary consequence That if the trueth be doubted of the church must néedes bee much more doubted of because the Church is the number of men professing the trueth And how can the professors of the trueth be seuered from others so long as the trueth by which they should bee knowen is in question Therefore the supposing your selues to be the church when your faith Religion should be tried is fond vain But if S. Paul in that place by Deliuered Tradition meane nothing but the doctrine deliuered to them by word of mouth yet comprised in Scripture too then must you graunt that you are deceiued to thinke that vnwritten Traditions are approued by S. Pauls Traditions Now what the things were which S. Paul deliuered by word to the Thessalonians is shewed in the 17 of the Acts saying Now as they passed thorow Amphipolis and Apolonia they came to Thessalonica where was a Synagogue of the Iewes and Paul as his maner was entred in vnto them and thrée Sabbath dayes hee discoursed vnto them out of the Scriptures opening and alleaging That Christ must haue suffered and risen againe c. In which wordes it is opened both what Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians by word and from whence From whence Out of the Scriptures What That it behooued Christ to suffer and rise againe Besides Saint Paul witnesseth both to small and great that hee said no other thing than that which the Prophets and Moyses did say should come Act. 26 22 The Traditions therefore that Paul doth exhort the Thessalonians to hold is the Tradition of the Gospel as Saint Ambrose writing vpon the same place calleth it very well which the reason also doth prooue that Saint Ambrose noteth that Paul doth there gather saying God hath raised you to saluation by our Gospel therefore stand ye fast and holde the Traditions which ye haue learned whether it be by word or by Epistle Now I hope there is none so impudent to denie that the Gospel is written But here another difficultie incounters vs If it were granted by the Churches interpretation that there were doctrines or Traditions Diuine Apostolicall or Ecclesiasticall deliuered by word of mouth vpon what sure grounds might wee be assured which be the Traditions that were so deliuered by Christ his Apostles or the Church Papist The ancient Fathers chiefe Papists doe plainely teach that many points of doctrine wherein you varie from vs as halowing the Font the blessing of the oyle the anointing the Baptized Exorcismes Fastes Festiuities prayer for the dead prayer to Saints worshipping of Images the oblation of the Sacrifice their Annealing their Primacie of Rome their fiue pretended Sacraments the merit of workes their satisfactions the numbring their sinnes to the Priest their Real presence their halfe CommunioÌ„ c. See the preface for Priests and See Master Middletons booke called Papisto-Mastix Sect. 5. almost all these things which you defend against vs are proued by the Fathers to be deliuered by Tradition Protestant 12 This sheweth euidently that you are guilty of the same fault that the Pharises were Mark 7.9 by Christs owne reproofe saying You cast aside the commaundements of God to maintaine your owne Traditions Mat 15.9 teaching for doctrine
rather to the whole Church consisting of the faithfull as the Protestants vnderstand it S. August saith Aug. in Psal 47. in prâ—ef We may not vnderstand the second of the Sabbath to be any other than the Church of Christ yet the Church of Christ in the Saints the church of Christ in those that are not ouercome with the tentations of this wicked world for they are worthy the name of firmament Therfore the church of Christ is called the firmament in those that are firme which is saith hee the Church of the liuing God the pillar and firmament of trueth Aug. de Bap li. 7. cap 3 Tom. 6. The like saying hath S. Augustine in many other places but specially where he writeth against the Donatists Saint Chrysostome expoundeth this place of the verity it selfe Chrys Hoâ— 11 in 1. Tim. 3. and not of the Pastors or Councels as the Papists do For sayth he the verity of the church is both the pillar and the firmament And if you will sée that the Fathers haue vnderstood the church as the Protestants do reade S. Augu. Enchirid. â— Laurent caâ— 56. expounding the Articles of the Créed where he saith that the Church is here to be taken for the whole not for that part onely which is a stranger vpon earth Aug. in Psal 137. Againe he saith There is a Church beneath there is a Church aboue the Church beneath in all the faithfull c. Ibid. Psal 90. Conc. 2. Likewise the whole church euery where diffused is the body of Christ and hee is the head of it Not onely the faithfull which are now but also they that were before vs from the beginning of the world and they that shall be after vs to the ende of the world doe all pertaine to this bodie The church is the bodie of Christ not the church which is here or there but which is here and euery where thorowout the world c. And often times in his writings he affirmeth the Catholike church to consist of all the predestinate De ciuitat Dei li. 21. ca. 25. de Bapt. â—i 6. ca. 3. In Iohn Tract 45. which are the members of Christs mysticall bodie and that no wicked men perteine vnto it but only the good holy and iust But to conclude this point with one whom you haue euer reputed your owne Anselmus super hunc locum saith The house in which God dwelleth is the whole congregation of the faithfull who are to be taught diuersly and the same Church is in the perfect a pillar that is sublime streight inconcussible supporting and lifting vp the yonger sort and in the same perfect it is the firmament of trueth because both by words and examples it confirmeth in the hearts of the weake the veritie of faith and Gods commandements Thus you sée the Church is by these testimonies vnderstood to be the congregation of the faithfull and not generall Councels or Pope And it is truely gathered out of these words of Anselmus which are to be taught that the church consisteth aswell of the Laity as the Cleargie Now if you will see how the church may be knowen Chrysostome saith Hom. in Mat. 49 Before it might be shewed many waies which was the church of Christ But nowe it is no way to be knowen but onely by the Scriptures S. Augustine saith as we may truely say of the Papists Let the Donatists saith he shew their church De vnitat eccles ca. 16. not in the rumors and speaches of the men of Africa nor in the Councels of their Bishops nor in their discourses of any writer whosoeuer nor in signes and miracles that may be forged but in the prescript of the law in the predictions of the Prophets in the verses of the Psalmes in the voices of the shepheard himselfe in the preachings and workes of the Euangelist that is in all the Canonicall authorities of the sacred Scriptures And binding himselfe to the same condition he addeth But whether they hold the Church Ibidem let them shew no otherwise than by the Canonical books of the holy scriptures because wee our selues doe not say wee must therefore bee beléeued for that wee are in the church of Christ or else for that Optatus Ambrose and infinite other Bishops of our communion haue commended the church which we hold or because our Church hath béen published in the Councels of our Collegues Chrysost in Mat. Hom. 16. Chrysostome sayth Euen so touching this new Ierusalem which is the Church they that were spiritual Christian men leauing the bodily church which the wicked by violence had inuaded departed out froÌ„ them Or as S. Iohn expoundeth it they rather departed out froÌ„ vs for hee séemeth not indeed to depart from the church that bodily departeth but he that spiritually leaueth the foundations of the Ecclesiastical truth We haue departed froÌ„ them in body they haue departed from vs in mind we from them in place they from vs by faith we haue left with them the foundations of the wals they with vs the foundations of the scriptures we are departed froÌ„ them in the sight of man they are departed froÌ„ vs in the iudgement of God But now after that the spirituall church is come forth the bodily church is left forsaken that is to say froÌ„ the people that séemed to be a christian people was not this people is gone forth that séemed not outwardly but was so indéed notwithstanding as we haue said before they are rather departed from vs than we from them Now let the indifferent Reader iudge by Chrysostomes iudgement whether the Papists or we by this description may be truliest reputed the true church for I thinke it is euident to all that they haue the foundations of the wals and we the foundations of the Scriptures which they so blasphemously speak of we are departed froÌ„ them in the sight of man but they froÌ„ vs in the sight of God who they were that séemed to be a christian people and were not let that be tried by the Scriptures And if you wil know what authority the Fathers giue to the church S. Aug. saith Cont. Crescâ— li. 2. ca. 21. Idem oper imperf in Mat. Ho. 49 The church may not preferre her selfe before Christ neither may we beleeue the true churches themselues vnles they say do those things that are consonant to the scriptures The church may not preferre her self before Christ Idem contrâ— Crescon li 2 cap. 21. for so much as hee alwaies iudgeth rightly ecclesiastical Iudges as being but men are often deceiued Many be the testimonies that might be brought to this purpose but to procéed we make the same iust exceptions against general Councels that we did against the Fathers First we will prooue that they are contrary one to another Secondly that they haue erred And lastly that they are reiected by the Papists Canon 59. The first Exception I prooue
you séene briefly A view of the weaknesse of the Grounds wheron the Papists build their Religion which in a word is The Popes good pleasure And notwithstanding I haue in this small Tract layd downe our iust Exceptions both against Fathers and Councels yet would I haue none rashly to censure that we reiect al the Fathers and Councels for we imbrace them as wholesome meanes by which great light hath béene brought to the Church of God both in the Exposition of the Scriptures and the abolishing and confuting of Heresies But wee reiect with great reason the partiality that is now vsed in calling of Councels which must now only be done by the Pope of which he onely must be President and Iudge contrary to the order of the first 4. Generall Councels which Gregory professeth to receiue as the 4. holy Gospels Neither is any thing of force that is now decréed in Councel vnles it be confirmed by the Pope though in the first 4. Councels the Pope was neither President by himselfe nor his Legates neither needed they his confirmation Besides the whole order of Councels are now inuerted by the Popes contrary both to the institution of the Apostles in the first Councel holden by them â—ct 15.22 â—3 and to all antiquity For now none must haue determining voyces but the Bishops and they must sweare and take this oath before they sit in Councel the forme whereof thus followeth â—ecret li. 2. â—r 24. ca. 4. I R.N. will be faithfull from henceforth to S. Peter and to the holy Church of Rome and to my lord Boniface the Pope to his successors chosen Canonically and I will bee an helper to defend against all the world the Popedome or papall superioritie and the rules of the holy Fathers So God mee helpe and the holy Gospel According to that detestable clause annexed to the Decrees of reformation in the Councel of Trent Ses 7. in prooe Seâ— 25. de Reformat ca. vlt. Salua semper in omnibus authoritate sedis Apostolicae Prouided alwayes that the Popes authority be safe and no way preiudiced So that still he will alwaies haue a non obstante notwithstanding any law to the contrary to breake through all lawes to doe what he list But to conclude wee acknowledge according to the Scriptures That there are two sorts of iudgements in the Church of God The one priuate and the other publike priuate to all the faithful and spirituall 1 Cor. 2.15 10.15 Ioh. 4.1 as God calleth them who are willed to iudge of that which is taught and to trie the Spirits whether they be of God Publike to the asssmbly of the Pastors and Elders Act. 15.6 1. Cor. 14. for of that which Prophets teach let Prophets iudge And the spirits of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets In all which the Scripture is the rule by which the Church must be directed neither hath she other authority than the ministery of giuing iudgement For the Soueraignty of iudgement must rest on Gods word Mat. 22.10 Iam. 4.12 For Christ is our only Doctor Lawgiuer The Lord open your eyes that you may sée the Truth and be thankefull to God FINIS An Abstract of the chiefe Points of this booke FIrst That all the Fathers do with general consent attribute all sufficiencie to the Scriptures making them the Rule of faith and the absolute meanes to determine all doubts and controuersies preferring them before the Church and all other writings of men whatsoeuer and further that the Church is no otherwise to be shewed or knowen but by the Canonicall Scriptures and that themselues and their opinions without the Scriptures are not to bee beleeued but reiected See the Preface and pag. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 45. 46. 47. 52. 2 That the Scriptures are to be expounded by the Scriptures and that we are not tied for the exposition thereof to any Father Councell or Pope And that no Papist can shew the consent of the Fathers that the scriptures are to be expouÌ„ded by any Father Councell or Pope See pag. 88. 89. 90. 91. 3 That the Fathers agree with vs taking the greater part in approouing those Scriptures which the Protestants doe to be Canonicall and in reiecting those which we do for Apocrypha See pag. 4. 5. 4 That the Fathers take the word Tradition sometimes for the Scriptures sometimes for the Customes and Ceremonies of the Church and the Papists which vrge them for matter of doctrine vnwritten and to bee of equall authoritie with the Scriptures doe depraue the Fathers making their doctrines contrary one to another yea contrary to themselues See the Preface 5 That chiefe Papists and pillars of Popery haue confessed that many and most of the doctrines wherein they varie from vs are grounded vpon Traditions And that it is extreame madnesse to thinke that the whole and entire body of Euangelical doctrine is to bee fetched out of the Apostolike writings and out of that little Booke of the New Testament In which doctrine they goe wholly against the streame of the Fathers and also discouer their abusing of the simplicity of their followers when they make them beleeue the greatest difference betweene them and vs is touching the sense of the Scriptures whereas by this their confession this consequent necessarily followeth That where there is no Text there needes no Interpreter See the Preface 6 That the Papists haue vttered open blasphemy in their bookes against the Scriptures in taxing them of insufficiencie in tearming them a Nose of waxe Inkie diuinitie dumbe Iudges no better than Aesops Fables without the authority of the Church That they take their authority from the Church That sometimes they are to bee expounded one way sometimes another That the Scriptures must folow the Church and not the Church the Scriptures preferring the authoritie of the Church aboue and against the Scriptures All which blasphemies are refuted not onely by the direct texts of Scripture but by the generall consent of the Fathers See the Preface 7 That the Papists vrge the credit of the Fathers for the receiuing of Traditions and though there be many Traditions which by the Fathers testimony haue the same authoritie to prooue them to be Apostolike that the others haue Yet the Papists receiue the one and reiect the other See pag. 12. 13. 8 That the Fathers haue held diuers errors vpon which it necessarily followeth that if they might erre in one thing they might erre in another And that their iudgements are often reiected by the Papists and therefore may with as great reason be reiected by vs and consequently are no perfite Rule to build our Religion on which euen the Fathers themselues confesse See pag. 20. 21. 22 23. 16. 17. 9 That there be many Counterfeits that haue vsurped the names of auncient Fathers wherby it is hard to discerne when a true Father and when a false speakes And though some of these Fathers be censured for counterfeits
A BRIEFE VIEWE of the weake Grounds of Popery As it was propounded to D. NORRICE Priest by T.V. Gent and returned without answere AT LONDN Imprinted by Humfrey Lownes for Samuel Macham and Mathew Cooke and are to be sold in Pauls Church-yard at the signe of the Tigers head 1606. To my dearest Cousins A. B. C. D. MY dearest Cousins with what zeale and feruencie both in my prayers and other indeuours I haue euer desired wee might be of one mind heart God Act. 6. and mine owne conscience can best testifie and your selues may partly witnes with me For as touching the means to this our atonement namely conference with the learned of ech others side and reading their bookes you know well I for my part haue neuer refused it but euermore gladly imbraced and diligently sought after it that so if truth wherof great vaunts were made had been found on your side my heart first then my hand might readily haue subscribed thereto But when I consider the doctrine of your Rhemists Tit. 3. Sect. and the answerable practise of their disciples forbidding you not onely to reade our bookes but to hold conuersation much more to haue conference with vs who must be Heretikes because they tearme vs so yea when I see they blush not to affirme That we are not to be heard â—fâ—r 3. â—ect 2. no not though we speake the trueth I almost despaire of your conuersion seeing the means are prohibited Now how much meeter it were in a case of such consequence being no lesse than the eternal safegard of your soules to leaue them with their errors and to hearken rather and conforme your faith to the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles I referre it to any seeing iudgement For the vniuersall consent of all the ancient Fathers alloweth the Scriptures for the onely Rule of faith as conteining in them all doctrine necessary to saluation And albeit I haue sufficiently among others cleared that question in this smal Treatise following yet will I somewhat inlarge the proofe of it in this place to the end you may better knowe That though you send vs for instruction to to the Fathers yet they send vs backe again to the Scriptures as the onely and sufficient Rule to direct vs. And in handling this point I will not much insist vpon diuine authority since I know you relye chiefly if not wholly on the Fathers Onely I will vrge these few testimonies of Scripture which ought to preuaile more with euery true Christian than all the Fathers how learned soeuer First our Sauiour willeth vs to search the Scriptures for that in them we thinke to haue eternall life Io. 5.39 Mark 1224. And he taxeth the Pharises of error because they were ignorant of the Scriptures 2. Tim. 3.15 16 17. S. Paul likewise affirmeth that they are able to make vs wise vnto saluation that the man of God may be perfite instructed to euery good worke And if this perswade you not I haue no hope that any Father can for as Christ saith Luk. 16.29 30 31. They haue Moyses and the Prophets if they will not heare them neither will they beleeue if one rose from the dead Now as to the Fathers though your side pretend so much to reuerence them yet in this question they wholly reiect them and that indeede not without cause seeing their authority in this one point might proue the downefall of your whole Religion it being confessed by some great Champions on your side That many and most of the doctrines wherin you varie from vs are grounded on Traditions and not on the Scriptures as any that will take the paines to reade may see in Peter Soto against Brentius in the fift chapter of Canisius Catechisme in the * In fine fabulae 6. 5 booke of Lyndans Panoply yea * Scripto suâ— aedito tempore Trid. Concil Andradius saith That the greatest part of Catholike Religion is left vnto Traditions of the Church not written â—anopl li. 1. â— 22. demeÌ„â—ssimae insaâ—iae And the said Lyndan saith It is most extreme madnes to think that the whole entire Body of Euangelicall doctrine is to be fetched out of the Apostolike letters written with inke and out of that little booke of the new Testament And therefore so much the more are your leaders seducers to be taxed who perswade their folowers that the greatest differeÌ„ce between them and vs is touching the Sense of the Scripture wheras euery man of common sense wil easily iudge that where there is no Text there needs no Interpreter But let vs briefly see what opinioÌ„ the Fathers were of in this coÌ„trouersie betweene vs and how they haue vnderstood that Scripture which D. B. P. calles the Protestants Achilles which hee onely barkes at without further hurt â— B. booke â—gainst M â—erkins calâ—ed the 1. â—im 3. the â—rot Achilâ—es Hom. 9. Chrysostome vpon the same Text sayth If any thing be needefull for vs to learne or to be ignorant of there meaning in the Scriptures shal we learne it If to reproue falsehood from thence shal we draw it if any thing lacke to be corrected or rebuked which must be had vnto exhortation vnto comfort there also doe we learne it Likewise Ho. 8. vpon the 15. verse he saith The scriptures do teach both what things are to be done what not to be done Theodoret vpoÌ„ the same place saith The scripture is inspired of God Therfore he teacheth the kinds of vtilitie It is profitable to teach for whatsoeuer we know not we learne out of it To reproue It reproueth our wicked life To correct for it exhorteth that they which haue gone astray returne to the right way To instruct in righteousnesse for it teacheth vs the kinds of vertue that the man of God may bee perfit furnished to all good workes All these things doe attribute and ascribe perfection to the God of all Primasius saith Out of the scriptures he that is ignorant is taught Hee that is insolent is reprooued He that erreth is corrected He that can keep no measure is instructed to Iustice to euery good worke not vnto one Oecumenius sayth after he hath rehearsed the particular vtilities to teach all true opinions and good works to reprooue errors vice he concludeth that the man of God may be not onely partaker after a vulgar maner of euery goodworke but perfect and compleate by the doctrine of the scriptures Not to some kind of good worke and to some not But to all and euery good worke saith Theophilact Athanasius saith Atha contr gent. Chrys opeâ— imperf in Mat. Ho. 41. Aug. in Iohâ— Tract 44. The holy scriptures inspired from heauen are sufficient for all instruction of trueth Chrysostome saith whatsoeuer is requisite for saluation all that is fully laid downe in the Scripture S. Augustine sayth There were chosen to be written such things as seemed to the holy Ghost sufficient for
And Saint Iohn witnesseth that our Sauiour Christ saith Iohn 6.53 Except yee eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his blood you haue no life in you and many other testimonies which I omit It wil conuince the Councell of Nice of error in decréeing for the worship of Images contrary to the second commandement But what shall I néede to descend to particularities it will conuince your late Councell of Trent and all other Councels in all those points of doctrine wherein you varie from vs if any Papist dare vndertake to bring the controuersies betwéene vs to that triall And surely since they will seeme to bring Scriptures to prooue the authoritie of the church and that the church cannot erre I sée no reason why they should refuse to make them iudge of all differences betwéene vs. But I maruell they vrge these places of Scripture to prooue that the church representatiue cannot erre séeing they are not able to shew that any one ancient Father hath so vnderstood them or that the whole church is represented in a generall Councell Name one Father that is ancient and not counterfeit for your credit sake that hath interpreted these places of Scripture or any other in that case as you doe If you cannot the world may iustly holde you for wranglers and abusers both of Scriptures and Fathers But let vs a little examine the force of those Scriptures which if they were all granted make nothing against vs if they bee rightly vnderstood The first is When two or thrée are gathered together c. This place is as pregnant for two or thrée faithfull men assembled in Christs name as to a Nationall or a Prouinciall Councell Neither doeth it giue any greater priuiledge to a Generall Councell than it doeth vnto them Bellar. li. 1. de Conc. ca. 12. though it bee alleaged by Bellarmine as the ground for the authorising of Councels All which promise notwithstanding your selues grant That both Nationall and Prouinciall Councels may erre The next place is the sixtéenth of Iohn where the holy Ghost is promised to the Apostles to leade them into all trueth which spirit of trueth is promised to the church and to euery particular member thereof for whome our Sauiour Christ prayeth saying Sanctifie them in thy trueth thy worde is trueth Ioh. 17.17.19 20. And againe I pray not for these alone but for them also that shall beleeue in mee through their worde But what maketh this for generall Councels more then the whole church or euery faithfull member thereof For although this prooueth that the holy Ghost shall euer remayne with the church and with euery true member of the same yet must wee not hereof conclude though it bee as pregnant for euery faithfull particular man as for the whole That either euery member of Christ or euerie Pastor that is the Apostles successour cannot erre Neither is this to be restrained to generall Councels or to the Pope neither must wee thinke that any visible Church may challenge all priuiledges that the Apostles had as necessary to the conuersion of the world Rhem. Test Iohn 16. But your Rhemists will tell you that to teach all trueth and to preserue in trueth and from error the holy Ghost is promised and performed onely to the Church and the choice gouernour and generall Councels Vpon which the Papists conclude that if the Church cannot erre the gouernours of the church cannot erre Is not this substantiall reasoning The whole church cannot erre Ergo the Pastors and preachers cannot erre Deale plainely and directly Do you hereby conclude that all Pastors cannot erre or that no Pastor can erre For to say that no Pastor can erre were apparant madnesse and to say that all Pastors cannot erre stands you in no stead neither is this a good argument The whole Church cannot erre that is all and euery faithfull cannot erre Ergo all Pastors cannot erre This is no kind of consequent for some of the faithfull may be directed to the trueth and they no Pastors nor preachers and many preachers may be preserued from error and they no Bishops and many Bishops may kept in the faith and they not assembled And a great number of those that be assembled may be righty affected and yet not the most part of them And the greater side may be well disposed and yet not the Bishop of Rome without whose confirmation you hold no Councell lawfull And therefore this argument is very childish The whole Church cannot erre Ergo Generall Councels cannot erre and specially the Pope of whom wee shall speake more particularly hereafter neither hath the holy Ghost filled with the vnmeasurable abundance of grace any but Christ Iohn 3.34 Iohn 1.16 for God giueth not the spirit by measure to him of whose fulnesse wee all receiue And it may well bee gathered from the Scriptures 2. Cor. 10.13 Eph. 4.7 that though the holy Ghost be giuen to the Elect yet hee hath giuen it by measure as I may say with Saint Paul not to this end that they may not erre but that they may not erre to death For what thing soeuer is receiued of another it is receiued according to the capacitie of that which receiueth it The last is the 1. Tim. 3.15 The Church is the pillar and ground of trueth therefore it cannot erre If this argument were granted would it follow hereupon that general Councels could not erre but this is sufficiently refuted before And you knowe that Peter was a pillar of trueth and yet hee erred and was reprooued by Saint Paul Gal. 2. yea your Diuines of Paris Articuli Parisienses but lately resolued that Peter erred in faith when Paul reprooued him And the very drift and scope of the place sheweth That Timothie is not sent by Saint Paul to the church to learne his duety but to the Scripture These things write I vnto thée sayth hee hoping to come shortly but if I tarie long that thou mayest knowe how thou oughtest to behaue thy selfe in the house of God which is the church of the liuing GOD the pillar and ground of trueth This church then which Timothie was conuersant in is the church of Ephesus called by S Paul The pillar and ground of trueth But this church of Ephesus hath condemned the doctrine of the Popes supremacie Conc. Flor. Sess vlt. Chalcocondylas de Reb. Turc lib. 6. to which other churches of the East haue likewise condescended Therefore if that be true still which the Church teacheth because S. Paul calleth it the pillar and ground of trueth then the doctrine of the Popes supremacie is wicked and Papistrie is heresie yea euen this church notwithstanding it was called the pillar and ground of trueth is now left desolate to Mahomets wicked impietie But let vs sée by some few testimonies of the Fathers how they haue expounded this place and whether they haue applied it to generall Councels as the Papists do and not
Constant Sess 37 and an Heretike swaruing from the faith and a wilfull notorious manifest subuerter of the Article of our faith One holy Catholike Church Nowe can there bee any doubt that these Popes were neuer comprised in that prayer which Christ made for Peter Or that hel gates haue not preuailed against them When Pope Marcellinus did offer sacrifice to idols as appeares in the Synuessan Councel Pope Liberius subscribed to the Arrians as is testified by S. Hier. confessed by Nicholaus Cusanus and Alfons de Castro both Papists great schoolmen Pope Syluester the 2. was a Necromancer a CoÌ„iurer as Stella Platina Petrus PraemoÌ„strateÌ„sis Nauclerus Antonius do witnes And Pope Anastatius was a NestoriaÌ„ Heretike Li 1. de Haerca 4 as is witnessed by Alfons de Castro And many such instances might be prooued out of their owne stories Thus you sée in what sense soeuer the Papists vnderstand the Church it is proued That it may erre Wherefore are you not singular men to abuse both the scriptures Councels Fathers yea your silly seduced followers with such coÌ„clusions Are these good consequents at Rhemes Peter was set ouer the Church or made Pastor of the Lords flocke Ergo none but Peter Euen so may you reason with much more warrant from the scriptures to proue the supremacie to be in Paul For he saith 1 Tim 1. â—â— The glorious Gospel of the blessed God which is committed to me Ergo to none but Paul Yea he saith 2 Cor 11 26 The care of all Churches were coÌ„mitted to him Ergo to none but him This had béen a pregnaÌ„t place for the Papists if it had béen spoken of Peter according to such inferences as they make And to vrge you a little further It is your maner in the Rhemes Test to say often All the Fathers say this and this and I knowe you bragge much of them That you can prooue all the doctrine you hold by them I pray produce their ioint consent to prooue That all controuersies are to be determined by the Pope Or that he cannot erre Or that he must summon Councels Or that they are of no authority vnles they be confirmed by the Pope All this is Catholike doctrine with the Papists and yet I thinke they cannot name any one Father that is ancient and not counterfeit to confirme thus much or to auowe any of these points Is it not strange therefore that you should reiect the Scripture which is the onely rule of faith to build your Religion on such vncertainties as in this small Tract hath béen declared and shewed This Gerson a learned Papist sawe and therefore hée sayth Gers primâ—l part de exa doctrin considerat 5. That there is more credit to be giuen to one man learned in the Scriptures and hauing them of his side than either to the Popes sentence or to the decrees of a generall Councel This made Cardinal Caietane say In praef coÌ„ment in libr. Moyse That God hath not tied the exposition of the Scriptures vnto the senses of the Fathers And that if he fall vpon a newe sense agreeable to the Texte though it goe against the streame of the Fathers he doth aduise the reader not to mislike it Andrad defensi fidei Trid. li. 2. This made Andradius the defender of the Tridentine Councel to defend Caietan against Canus saying That experience forceth vs to confesse vnlesse we will bee vnthankfull to most excellent wits that very many things in Moyses and the Prophets are in this our age expounded more exactly through the diligence of learned men than euer they were before And concludeth that the holy Ghost the onely and faithfull interpreter of the Scriptures would haue many things to be knowen to vs which our ancestors knew not And hath wrought by meanes vnknowen to vs knowen to him that the Fathers noted good and godly mysteries out of very many places of the Scripture whereof the right and naturall sense hath beene found out by the posteritie Thus you sée that if wee bee deceiued Scriptures Popes Councels Fathers and learned and chiefe Papists haue deceiued vs who haue taught the same trueth that wee defend Papist Well What colours soeuer you bring of Scriptures Fathers Councels Popes and learned men of our owne side yet this is an vndoubted position that vnlesse you maintaine that the Church cannot erre and that thereby you vnderstand the definitiue sentence of the Pope you bereaue your selues of all meanes to settle your selues in the vnity of faith neither haue you any meanes to end controuersies For leauing euery man to his owne priuate exposition whiles one expoundeth the Scriptures one way and another another way This sense is plaine in the exposition of the one That sense is contradicted by the opinion of the other there can neuer be end of these differences And therefore there must bee some Tribunall on earth where trueth may bee found at all times and of all men that be willing to seeke for it Otherwise there should bee no stay for Religion nor end of contention euery man pretending his faith to bee trueth and no man hauing authoritie to decide which is truth which were most absurd And therfore since you must of necessitie yeeld to haue a Iudge for auoiding so great inconueniences who can bee fitter than the Pope and the Church Protestant This is Redire ad vomitum and for the auoiding of a lesse fault to fall into a greater Since it is prooued in euery sense where you haue taken the Church That it may erre And therefore how much better were it that there should be continuall disagréement about matters of Religion than to maintaine false doctrine Saint Iude saith It was needefull for me to write vnto you Iude ver 3. to exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once giuen vnto the Saints 1. Cor. 11.19 And Saint Paul saith There must bee Sectes amongst you that they that bee perfect may bee knowen For as wee must respect Vnitie so wee must take héede that it bee Secundum Iesum Christum According to Iesus Christ An vnitie in veritie For better a diuersitie in vnitie than an vnitie in Poperie And therefore wee are commaunded 1 Ioh. 4. 1 Thess 5. to trie the spirits whether they be of God Trie all things and holde fast that which is good Ephes 5. Bee not vnwise but vnderstand what the will of the Lord is Bee renewed in your minde Rom. 12. that you may discerne what the good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD is Phi. 1.9 This I pray that your loue may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all iudgement that you may discerne the things that are best 1. Cor. 2. Hee that is Spirituall discerneth all things These exhortations were not giuen by the Spirit of God in vaine which of necessitie must follow if you debarre all Christians other