to examine what we say and to see whether God in his Word do not say it also and according as it agreeth or disagreeth with that Word so to receive it or lay it aside But withal two things may be considered 1. That it is no untruth nor immodesty to say That the Ministers of this Nation be as infallible as other Teachers are so that the matter will be brought to this issue Either there must be no Teaching and that 's against Scripture which declareth Teaching to be a perpetual Ordinance Matt. 28.19 20. and as it were the Churches Inheritance d Isa. 59.21 or else there mast be found in these dayes infallible Teachers and that 's against experience none pretending to infallibility but the Pope or they that are like him or else we must be taught and that 's the truth by men that are fallible But secondly Notwithstanding this we affirmâ— that what we collect by sound natural and necessary inference from Scripture that 's infallible though we be not Is it not an infallible truth that there be three Heavens though we do not read in Scripture that I remember of a first and second Heaven I mean in expresse words if there be a third Heaven which the Scripture expresly assureth us of 2 Cor. 12.2 then there must needs be two more though the Scripture name them not T.S. Take six of you that esteem your selves the most able Doctors and a portion of Scripture being given you to interpret Pag. 7 shut your selves up in six several Rooms and after some time give your interpretations thereof to one that shall receive them from each of you apart from the rest and perhaps not two of the six shall agree in the same interpretation and would you have poor people adventure their souls on the truth of such mens deductions from Scripture who dwell in such vast confusion and difference in their deductions W. T. Here 's the old Popish Argument against the Protestant Religion whereby the Franciscan Fryers may observe them to be pretty well prepared for the Pope for Papists declare we must needs want unity because we do not acknowledge one chief Pastor to wit the Successor of Saint Peter and wholly submit to his definitive Sentence In this declaration of the want of Unity the quakers join with them how hopeful therefore is the invitation Come from those dissenting men that are call'd Ministers unto us for we have one infallible proponent of Truth the Successor of Peter in whom we are all perfectly united But how well the Papists agree hath been shewed to their shame And suppose they did agree in that which is evil they are thereby in greater danger as they may understand from one that was a Pope himself but of a far better minde then his Successors who tells us and the Quakers if they please may hear it that e As it is very hurtful if Unity be wanting to the good so it is pernicious if it be not wanting to the evil who are so much the more incorrigible by how much they are the more unanimous Greg. Moral in Job Lib. 33 c. 33 But to come neerer to the matter 1. I shall relate what one hath answered them already which is this They speak of Unity but it is young dayes as yet they are but learners and imitators yet they branch themselves to walking singing naked and Virgiâ—-quakers f 2. I answer more particularly and it is that which is plain to those that be not partial that though the faithful Ministers of this Nation be not onely shut up in several Rooms that is confined to several stations but also live many of them in parts far distant one from another yet people hear the same things from them all in their several places I mean as to the substance and saving Truth of Religion If in some lesse things we differ God having not given to all the like light Phi. 3.16 or if the distemper and loosnesse of the times have more then ordinarily diversified us yet there is enough of that wherein we generally agree to guide the feet of the Christians into the way of Peace 3. It is not yet resolv'd that the Quakers do agree in all things among themselves for consider how high and how horrid their expressions are One said that he was equal with God Another that himself was as holy just and good as God Another she-quaker in hold at Reding being convented and asked her Name answered I am that I am and stood to it These and many more the like you finde with the proofs in the Sober Answer of the Ministers of Redding to the Epistle prefixed to this Book to which I adde what is published in answer to Mr. Nyâ— Mr. Goodwiâ— c. which is this That Christ is God and man in one person is a lye Another of the quakers said that it is alike for to take a Sentence out of their Letters that is the quakers Letters and to preach from it as to take a Sentence out of Pauls Epistles See this in the Faithful Discovery of a Treacherous Designe pag. 33. Now if this Writer and his fellow-quakers be all of this minde and close with those other of their way in the fore-recited things then there 's a good company of them if they do not then they also want Unity The Truth is It 's incident to all to agree in Error the Devil and corrupt nature furthering that conjunction it is of the Grace of God that they that are right hold together Yet that Protestant Ministers and Churches do so let the Harmony of Confessions witnesse And that the publike Teachers in this and the Neighbor-Nation do agree let the late Confession of Faith framed and concurr'd upon by the Assembly of Divines testifie T.S. Next you urge that Scripture Deut. 5.32 33. viz. You shall not turn aside to the right hand or the left c. Pag. 7 Could Moses intend this in relation to Scripture the greatest part of which was not then written W.T. Answ. Though the greatest part of Scripture was written after yet the ten Commandments in reference whereunto Moses spake those words were written then Deut. 5 22. Exod. 24.3 4. Now by the same reason whereby the Scripture written then was a Rule then by the same the Scripture written since is a Rule since to wit because it is the word of God after which our steps ought to be ordered Psal. 119.133 But the Reader may observe that he leaves out the Explication of that Scripture Deut. 5.31 32 33. whereby I shewed it to be a Rule to wit because Ye shall not turn to the right hand or the left is equivalent to this Make your Rule exactly to walk by and then asks Doth this Scripture say that the Scripture is the Saints Rule To which I answer That it saith so to his reason and conscience if he have any if not in Sillables yet in Sense T.S. Because the word Rule
but they do procure our happiness neither will any wise man rest upon them for the obtaining of salvation Gal. 5.2 Isa. 64.6 3. It's wonder he should own such a Religion as saith nothing of faith when that is a chief lesson that the Gospel teacheth for a sinners salvation Mark 16.16 1 Tim. 1.16 This is an old Popish trick to make much of the doctrine of St. James in a mistaken interpretation and to lay aside the doctrine of St. Paul in its true sense Rom. 3.28 when they should join both together and ascribe to â—aith the justification of men as sinners and to works their justification as believers Jam. 2.22 4. Whereas he saith Christ is the â—ight of the world which I own as the fouâ—dation of my Religion who is within me The question is whether he build his Religion and salvation on that Christ who is within or on Christ as he is within that is on that of Christ which is within I grant that Christ is in us except we be Reprobates but its true also that Christ doth not save us as within us nor by any thing he hath put within us as if that were the cause of our salvation or Christ by that for how can that save us which is imperfect which needs a Saviour It is therefore Christ without us that saves us that by what he wrought without us that is by dying for our sins and rising again for our justification nor doth grace reign to eternal life any other way then through Christs righteousness made ours by faith Rom. 5.21 which clearly appears in converted Paul within whom Christ was abundantly he feared God and wrought righteousness and yet he desires to be found not having his own righteousness which is of the Law but that which is through the fâ—iâ—h of Christ the righteousness which is of God by faith Phil. 3.9 T. S. That you may know my Religion will bear the trial I do hereby declare my self free and willing Pag. 28 upon seasonable notice to appear in the midst of your Congregation or in the presence of the whole County to have my principles tried by the Scriptures of truth VV. T. A. 1. It seems he thinks now the Scripture is the touchstone or Rule to try things by whether they be of God or no 2. He hath been in my Congregation once already which considering his sad Apostacy since I am sorry for and shall not have to do with him there again nor by way of dispute anywhere else I have not been used to tumultuous things nor is it like his conference will be better then his writing and then let others judge whether it be fit a Congregation especially a whole County should be called together to hear it I began with him in writing and shall walk with him no other way nor long in that but shall leave him as a man whom no conference or writing is like to do good upon unless the Lord be pleased to change his heart which I should be most glad to see T. S. Can â—ny man be said to own the Spirit that breathed fâ—rth the Scripture and living the life of Christ and yet disown the Scripture which is the testimony of that Spirit and that Christ a W. T. A. I grant that they that truly own the spirit breathed forth the Scripture and live the life of Christ will also own the Scripture yet are these two distinct things though they meet together and agree in the same person But I answer further that a man may own the Sgirit in profession that breathed forth the Scripture and yet not own the Scripture as we see in Zâ—dekia that owned and arrogated the Spirit of the Lord and yet disowned and detested what Michaias spake by that Spirit 1 King 22.24 28. 2 Thes. 2.2 so quakers talk much of the Spirit and yet instead of owning the Scripture their design is found to be to depend upon an unwritten word immediatly dictated to them within themselves proceeding from him who is as they say the word from the beginning and is the life and is manifested as they give out within them as to the Apostles â—am. Eatonâ— answer to the quakers 19. queries pag. 20. Yea they do little less then deride the Text of Scripture calling Ministers in contempt preachers of the letter when as they preach those spiritual truths that be contained in it yea one of them makes this out-crie All people cease from their outside lights and return to the light of Christ in you and this light is not a chapter without you in a book c. Perfect Pharisee p. 20. out of James Nayler in a book called The glory of the Lord shining out of the north Of the word Sacrament T S. Pag. 30 SAcrament principally signifieth the Oath by which Souldiers of old bound themselves to be faithful to their Captains and is there such affinity between this word and the word sign seal Antitype and example W. T. A. Its true that the word Sacrament among profane Authors signifies a military oath which because it was accounted of all things the most sacred yea and went under the name also of a most holy mystery a hence use was made of the same word in the Churches of God to set forth the holy things instituted therein of God wherein there was a secret and mysterious signification and in special the two New Testament Seals of the Covenant of grace I deny not therefore that notion and acception of the word Sacrament which he and many others mention it being very fit to set forth these Seals as they represent the covenant of grace in which regard as on the 〈◊〉 side they assure us of the benefit of the Covenant on Gods part so on the other side we are therein consecrated unto God and bound as Souldiers were that took that military Oath to perform the Covenant on our part But this being granted it no way crosseth the ordinary description of a Sacrament which is that it is an outward and visible signe of a spiriâ—ual and invisibâ—e Grace Now to set two things one against another which being rightly taken do very well stand together is a poor quarrel And so is the whole contestation about the word Sacrament it being not made any matter or necessary appurtenance of our faith but used only as a convenient and received expression of that thing which is found in Scripture Whereas he questioneth further what affinity there is between the words sigâ—e and seaâ— and the word Sacrament as it relates to the aforesaid Military Oath I answer the words signe and seal expresse what we have from God to wit the benefits of the Covenant of Grace represented and sealed in that Ordinance The word Sacramen in that sense wherein he takes it shews what God is to have from us As for his cavilling about my forbearing to answer his quâ—râ—es I shall only say this Pag. 32 That though questions may
fiery work to burn up in them and take off their hearts from hanging after old dispensations wayes and discoveries So that in this way they look to be purged from that which they have received formerly from the Truth and Ordinances of God 2. It is conceived from their own words to be for their justification for they say They must be brought to suffer as Christ did and to undergo as great a sense of wrath as Christ did when he cryed My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Thus reckoning saith the Relator of these things as far as I am able to determine that upon this account they must be justified before the Lord Worlds wonder pag. 23. Now let all men judge what agreement there is between this and Scripture-quaking 4. I wonder that among all the quaking which they would have us suppose ariseth from the fear of God they did never tremble in conformity to that Scripture wherein God himself saith VVherefore were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses but in stead of that are still inveighing against men of Moses his minde and Office Numb. 12.8 VVhether Scripture be the Saints Rule T.S. NO Scripture saith so in terminis W. T. 1. That is Scripture which is necessarily deduced from it though it be not in so many words expressed in it Our Saviour to shew that the Scriptures hold forth the Doctrine of the resurrection to all knowing men produceth this Scripture I am the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob Mark 22.29 32. Now shall a Quaker come to our Saviour and say Your proof is nothing because the Scripture you bring saith not in terminis There shall be a resurrection 2. That in Deut. 5.31 32 33. is all one to a rational man as if it had been said in plain terms You shall walk perfectly according to the Rule and direction of my word 3. Add hereunto that Gal. 6.16 the word Rule is expressed to shew the Doctrine laid down there is the Rule they must walk by that look for peace and mercy Hence Scriptures are called Canonical because they are a Canon and Rule to walk by T.S. Let me ask you and many others who have been Teachers were those things that you have taught so many yeers together necessarily deduced from Scriptures if not then by your own confession you have taught falshood if they were then all that you have so taught is infallible for you say it is Scripture and the Scripture is infallible W.T. A. Here is an horned Argument wherewith he pusheth hard but wants strength One horn is this If the things you have taught were not necessarily deduced from Scripture then by your own confession you have taught falshood To which I answer That what he saith had something in it if it were not a falshood that I made any such confession I was not so lost as to confesse that to be a falshood which neither my self nor any man well in his wits ever thought to be so Was all that Moses learned from the Egyptians or Daniel from the Chaldeans a meer falshood A Minister may have occasion to deliver divers things for peoples help not necessarily deduced from Scripture and yet very true as Paul said of what a Poet said Tit. 3.12 13. This witness is true yet what we have taught people to believe and practise as the mind of God that we have prov'd to them out of the word of God But now the other horn seems stronger T. S. If they were necessarily deduced from Scripture then all that you have so taught is infallible Pag. 6 W.T. A. So it is but not because we taught it but because it lies in and was necessarily deduced from that Scripture which is infallible T.S. Why then do you not adjoin all your Sermons to the Scripture for if necessarily deduced thence they are Scripture and a part of the Saints Rule but what a sad condition would many poor souls be in whose small Estates would not amount to the purchase of a Bible so voluminous would it be c. VV.T. A. When it is said why do you not then adjoine all your Sermons to Scripture that sure is something simply spoken for what need that be adjoined and added to Scripture that is already in it as all is that is necessarily deduced from it for how could it be gathered from it and that necessarily if it were not in it who can take any thing from thence where it is not to be had The poor souls therefore of whom he speaks need not trouble themselves about the purchasing of a bigger Bible any more then of another well in the place of that living Fountaine from whence water hath been drawn which when it was drawn was that well-water this hundred or thousand yeers T.S. Whereas you quote Christ his proving the resurrection of the dead c. I answer That what Christ spake was infallible he neither did nor could erre in what he said W.T. A. It 's true that what Christ spake was infallible but this he saith to no purpose for Christ doth not speak there as one that would presse them to receive what he delivers upon his bare word but as one that would convince them of the truth of what he spake by Scripture that is by his necessary and unanswerable reasonings from it He doth not say Ye do erre not knowing me to be an infallible Teacher whom you ought to believe upon his word but not knowing the Scriptures and the Power of God both which plainly prove that there shall be and may be a resurrection T.S. Were you as infallible in those meanings and interpretations which you force upon the Scriptures as he was in what he spake from the Spirit of the Lord I should readily close with them as the Oracles of God W.T. A 1. If all Pastors and Teachers were Apostles then these men would presently be Converts This is like them that said to our Savior Let him now come down from the Cross and we will believe him but they who contemn that means which God in his wisdom ordains and will do nothing without that means which they in their folly demand justly perish 2. Neither is this device of any value for the question is not whether we be infallible in our meanings and deductions but whether that which is deduced and drawn from Scripture that is necessarily and upon supposal that we are not deceived in the deducing be Scripture or a thing truly contained in Scripture which I affirm it is Let him not talk to no purpose but keep him to his work and prove the contrary T.S. Either say to the people plainly that you are infallible or else say that you are fallibles that so they may take liberty of proving both your actions and Doctrine W.T. A. We willingly acknowledge we are fallible or men that may be deceived therefore do not onely give liberty but give counsel to people and exhort them
is one part but still he is unhappy whilst he speaks of lying for how can Calvin conclude me to be a lyar with those words which he never spake And what he cites out of Calvin is not to be found in him but in Calvin upon that place I mean on Eph. 2.20 these words are to be found Quâ—â— fundamentum hic pro doctrina sumatur minime dubium est that the word foundation in this place is to be taken for doctrine that is for the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets is not at all to be doubted of for which he gives his reason before mentioned and then concludes Itaque docet Paulus fidem ecclesiae in hac doctrina debere esse fundatam therefore Paul teacheth that the faith of the Church ought to be founded in this doctrine But suppose some other interpreter speak the words that he puts upon Calvin the matter is soon answered for Christ is the foundation witnessed the word of the Prophets and Apostles is the foundation witnessing or the fundamental doctrine giving testimony of Jesus Christ W.T. There 's a double foundation 1 personal or real that 's Christ 2. doctrinal or declarative that 's the Scripture T. S. If the Scripture be no real foundation it is then imaginary Pag. 22 for that which is not real is imaginary W. T. A. His silence had been better then his sophistry Is the story of a thing the whole story of Scripture nothing but an imagination because it is not the thing acted Had he had as much mind to understand as he had to cavil he might have seen that I did not oppose real to imaginary but to declarative and that my plain meaning was that Christ is the person or the thing whereupon we build our selves but the word whereupon we build our faith that we may build our selves upon that thing or person is the doctrine and declaration of Scripture T. S. You go on to distinguish between Gods testimony and Gods truth Pag. 23 Is not his testimony his truth W. T. A. Its true I make a distinction but he falsly cries out that I creat an opposition and then runs on to poure out his pulpit-hatred he cares not how I onely ask him this question When he receives letters from France or Spain is there no difference between the things themselves whereof the letters speak and the letters and lines that testifie of those things T. S. But the ground of faith you say may be corrupted nay pag. 22 you say further that faith may be lost Is faith bottomed on a corruptible foundation W. T. I did not say the ground of faith may be corrupted but only that if the Scriptures be corrupted they must be purged And yet if any man say that the Scriptures which are the ground of faith may be corrupted it doth not follow thence that the faith of the Elect is bottomed on a corruptible foundation for their faith is not bottomed on Scripture as corrupted but as pure and clear and as it is that word of God that endureâ— for ever having no dross in it though men seek to mix their dross with it which the Elect of God that build upon it do both detect and detest It s worse then this that he reports me to say that faith may bâ— lost when the words of my letter were that if the Scriptures could be 〈◊〉 â—here would quickâ—y be found a loss in faith And hath not he wit to distinguish between a loss in it and a loss of it between less and nothing T. S. You confess that the Scriptures were not the ground of Abeâ—â— Enockâ— and Noahs faith and if they were not the ground of their faith then neither were they the ground of any of the Saints faith since them for that they and all the Saints since have the same foundation and are built on the same Rock which can never be removed nor corrupted as you do most absurdly assert VV. T. A. The name Scripture denotes and contains two thâ—ngs in it 1. The revealed will of God 2. The written will of God The revealed will of God is the foundation of Saints faith from the beginning to the end of the world but in a different manner viz. as delivered by God without writing in the first times but in writing since and being now delivered in writing that written word is now the ground of Saints faith 2. Unto this argument a I answer That all Saints former and later have the same foundation in regard of the substance but not in regard of the manner of communication The ground of the faith of the first Saints was the revealed will of God unwritten since the same will of God revealed and setting forth the object of our faith in and by writing that is the doctrine contained in the old and new Testament about which two things are considerable 1. something inward and that is the immutable truth of God 2. Something outward and that is in the writing by which it is exactly presented unto the Churches view when we say the Scripture is the ground of faith we put both together and say it is the word ofâ—God as writter and communicating unto us in that way the doctrine of our salvation 3. I never asserted nor ever thought to say that the Rock whereon our persons are built can be removed yet it may be granted that the Scripture on which our faith is founded may be corrupted though our faith be not grounded on corrupted Scripture T. S. Did ever any of those called Quakers say that the Word of God was not the ground of Abrahams faith and still is of the faith of all Saints VV. T. In that book which was the occasion of writing my first letter called The fiery darts of the dâ—vil quenched * there are these words a This again I affirm as before I did that the Scriptures is not the Saints Rule but the Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures we walk as Abel Noah c. by the immediate Spirit of God which was before those Scriptures were wâ—itten Here I observe two things 1. That this Quaker saith the Scripture is not the Saints Rule which is all one as to say the Word of God is not the Saints Rule for the Scriptures are the Word of God Christ calls the written Law of Moses the Word of God which the Pharises made of none effect by their traditions Maâ—k 7.10 13. The Scripture speaks Rom. 4.3 and whose words doth it speak but the words of God Rom. 10.17 2. I observe here that though he do not say The word of God is not the Saints Rule but onely that the Scripture is not yet the same reason why he holds the Scripture not to be the Saints Rule to wit because we must walk by the immediate spirit of God excludes the word of God also for the Word and Spirit are different things Isa. 59.21 T. S. Pag. 24 Because Christ saith to the
Jews that they thought they had eternal life in the Scriptures did he therefore direct to look for life in them Christ telleth his Disciples that the time should come that whosoever killed them should think he did God service and will you thence gather this doctrine which is as true as the former that Christ in that Scripture directeth men to kill his Disciples W. T. A. Is there the same reason between these two were not their thoughts right in the one but altogether unrighteous in the other Doth not Christ approve the one and condemn the other Are not the thoughts which Christ approves right because the same men have other thoughts which Christ condemns They thought rightly that eternal life is laid up in Scripture a for it is said Hear and your soul shall live Isaiah 55.3 and of that song and of those words of the Law which Moses wrote Deuteronomie 31.22 24 it is said it is your life â—euteronomy 32.46.47 Therefore from their own right concession Christ presseth them to search the Scripture and shews further how that eternal life which they truly thought was to be had there was to be had and enjoyed of them to wit by their testify nâ— of him Unto this my Letter spake further which he lightly passes over for a mans easiest way is to slight that wherein he cannot satisfie T.S. Cant at eternal life which alone is to be had in Christ Pag. 25 bâ— yet had in Scripâ—ure and in that which is not Christ where had you this rare piece of Logick That that which is to be had in one thing is yet to be had in anotheâ— W.T. A. Here are great words but he must know and men of understanding do know that it is not against Logick nor any right reason to say that what is alone to be had in one thing in one sense may yet be had in another to wit in another sense and in another war as Deut. 30.20 it is said of God He is thy life and we may truly add He only b And yet it is said Deuâ— 32.47 It is thy life that is the Word of God So Prov. 3.18 and 4.22 in like manner The Son makes freâ— Joâ—. 8.36 that is he only for who else is the Redeemer and yet that Redeemer saith The Truth shall make you free So God is a Saviour and there is none beside him Isa. 45.21 and yet men are ordinarily called Saviours Judg. 3.9 1 Sam. 14.45 Obad. v 21. Thus the life of a condemned Malefactor lies only in the mercy of the supreme Magistrate and yet it lies also in the pardon sealed as the Instrument reaching forth the Magistrates mercy for the Malefactors safety T.S. The Scriptures testifie of Christ but is life therefore to be had in them Pag. 25 Is the dâ—câ—aration touching any thing the thing it self W.T. A. Whether it be the thing it self or no it s the means of obtaining it as the declaration of plenty in Egypt shewed life was to be had there directed a famished creatures to repair thither for it So the Scripture declaring the way of life with a purpose also in God in that way to bring men to it it is said truly to help us to life the rather because the Scripture not only declares the person in whom life is to be had but shews also what manner of persons we should be yea and puts us also through the Grace of God into a capacity that we may receive it from him John 20.31 yea such a neerness there is between the word of life and life it self that he who is our life saith I knâ—w that his commandement that is that doctrine of the Father which himself was to deliver is everlasting life John 12.50 W. T. I would ask you this one question whereupon must I believe that Christ is the true light that lightens every man that comes into the world T. S. I ask you again whether that all the holy men of God from Abe to 〈◊〉 Pag. 26 who spake those words did believe that Christ was the true light if they did then I demand on what ground did they believe it and on what ground did John himself who spake the words believe the truth of them W. T. A. Here are shuffling things instead of answering one question of mine he puts me to answer two or three of his I shall not slide out of his questions as he doth out of mine but answer him that the holy men of God to whom that truth was revealed extraordinarily as to John and the pen-men of Scripture such truths were believed them because of that extraordinary Revelation they to whom any such was revealed before the word of God was written believed it because of the certainty of those wayes of Revelation which God was pleased to use then but since the Church of God hath had the Scriptures holy men have believed the truth of God and this in particular after it pleased God to record it because of Scripture-revelation But after this answering of his questions I must call him again to mine and ask him once more wâ—eâ—eupon he believes that Christ is the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world If he saies he believes it be extraordinary revelation let him shevv prove such a revelation which is now as needless as to do that in an extraordinary way which is already done in an ordinary way if he say he believes it because the Scripture Joh. 1.9 saith so then I say still he must believe and build on that Scripture first and so grant the Scripture to be the ground of faith otherwise the house and edifice of Quakers will fall for want of a foundation And so it will howsoever because howsoever that be an excellent and established truth yet they build â—wood hey and stubble upon it After he hath spoken his pleasure of what he calls my droâ—sie interpretations which whatsoever they be were occasioned by his jugling expressions he comes further to lay open himself thus T. S. I own no Religâ—on but thâ—t which teacheth a man to fear the Lord and work righteousness Pag. 20 to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction and to keep hiâ—self unspotted of the world Christ is the light of the world which I own as the foundaâ—ion of my Religion who is within me unless I be a Reprobate W. T. A. Here 's the account of his Religion may not a man make as fair a profession as this is and yet come short of salvation But I shall explicate my self 1. I grant that they who truly fear God are the persons that shall be saved but no man fears God truly that doth not so reverence the Lord Jesus and his righteousness as therein alone to look for his salvation Phil. 3.9 2. I say that the fear of God and the working of righteousness are evidences to a man of his good estate and Gods way wherein to come to salvation
Saints and the ground of Faith and that I said more he shall not prove that I say still and it s neither untrue as I hope this rejoinder will shew nor scandalous or if he account it any way scandalous in regard of himself himself hath made it so 2. I very much doubt whether he speak really and as the trurh is when he declareth that to be the principal cause of putting his Reply to the Press what need so large a Plaister for so narrow a sore and a printed Book for a few private words But let his Epistle to the publike Teachers of this Nation speak whether the great end of putting out his Book were not I do not say to be revenged upon my self an inferior Minister for a feigned wrong but to shoot his Arrows even bitter words against those whom he calls with a bad conscience the Chief Priests that is the Ministers of the Nation as a bloody crew and company of men such as they were that crucified the Lord Jesus 3. However I shall join with him in leaving it to those that fear the Lord to judge betwixt us and am glad to hear so good a word come from him T S. Both his and my former I wou'd have printed with this but that this wouâ—d thereby have encreased to too great a bulk which would have caused it to be unto thee more tedious to read and costly â—o purchase W.T. He should have dealt fairly for all that and not have mangled my Letters to draw out what passages he pleased with passing over principal things Had he left out all his insolent and injurious Passions and Aspersions and kept in all his Reasons especially his Right Reason he might have printed my Letter and yet this dear Book would not have sweld so much as to become a costly purchase I proceed now to the Reply it self In this Reply there be many passages which are nothing else but misrelating of my words or pervertings of my meaning I shall instance in that which comes presently to hand T. S. THis is no judging from you Pag. 2 presently to conclude that man a Brute for so he is that hath lost Piety Humility and Civility that doth not presently bow down and cry Hosanna to the mutable directions of the Pulpit W.T. 1. Here he will needs conclude himselfe a Brute when I neither did so nor gave him occasion to do so for I did not say as my words shew * that he had lost Piety and Humility and Civility but that when he had got more of these which did rather imply then deny that he had some then he would write other Letters Now he that will thus mis-represent what is before his eyes deserves a Reproof rather then an Answer and therefore if I say nothing to divers such things I presume I shall be excused 2. We do not expect that men should stoop to the mutable directions of the Pulpit but require them to submit to the immutable counsel of God which we deliver as Ezra did out of a Pulpit Neh. 8.4 3. What need he to name the Pulpit for he was not spoken to out of the Pulpit nor in any publike way but Pulpit-hatred cannot be hid nor will the device of mutable directions cloak it for that which we preach there and desire alone should be taken notice of from us as binding the conscience is Gods Word which is not yea and nay 2 Cor. 1.19 Of Quakers quaking T.S. IT sufficeth for me that you grant the thing I intended viz. That the Servants of God of old did Pag. 3 and still occasionally do quake and tremble before the Lord but you say they received no denomination from it nor made a trade of it did I ever assert either of these things VV.T. A. I did not say he did assert them but my self had reason to speak of those things to shew the difference between their quaking and that mentioned in Scripture by which they would protect themselves therefore I said that they in Scripture received no denomination or were not named from it as these men are for I know not from what else they own the name of Quakers I said also that they made no trade of it as these men do divers of whom have left their Trades and Callings and betaken themselves to a Trading in the quakers Employment Now that there is no sufficient protection for their quaking from the trembling of holy men in Scripture I shall expresse in general in the words of a Church and company of godly Christians better acquainted with them then my self a Their words are these That which most satisfies us that neither they nor their quakings are of God is because though some particular persons upon some particular and sudden appearances have trembled and quaked yet there is nothing in all the Scripture that makes out the meetings of many people together in a constant way and course waiting or expecting to see or hear something that casts them into Tranâ—es and brings upon them quaking and trembling and in a kinde of order also as first onâ— and then another c. But to shew the difference more particularly 1. The trembling we finde ordinarily in Scripture denotes an inward reverence humility and lowlinesse of minde expressed by a trembling spirit Isa. 66.2 Psal. 2.11 1 Cor. 2 3. 2 Cor. 7.15 Eph. 6.5 Now theirs is an outward bodily quaking which may reach as high as Belshazers did without any spark of the feare of God in the heart 2. As for any outward bodily tremhlings of Saints in Scripture they arose from weighty and extraordinary occasions expressed in the word of God together with their trembling (b) Let these men therefore if they look to have approbation from that Word shew that their quaking is not a device to put a colour and a countenance upon their new-found way by declaring such reasons for it as the Scriptures that make mention of such trembling relate and express 3. They that know their quaking relate it to be such as the Scripture knows not neither for the manner of it nor the end of it 1. Not for the manner of it viz. A trembling of all the parts of their body as though their flesh must part from their bones and ligatures with groveling upon the ground foaming at the mouth roarings and perplexities that one would think there could not be more torment on the damned spirits then is upon them at the present This is related in the Book called The Perfect Pharisee pag. 41. and by Mr. Skipâ—e that was one of them Worlds wonder p. 22.23 I do not say the quaking reacheth thus high in all but thus it is among that company which in Scripture we finde not unlesse where the foul spirit hath taken possession Mark 9.18 20. 2. Not for the end of it which is declared to be 1. For purification for they say they are brought into so great sufferings agoniâ—s and passions as a
praise in that portion of Scripture * T.S. When you say indefinitely Pag 8 they i. e. the quakers reject the Scriptures not quoting any particulars whether can it be any other way taken but that they throw them off in general W.T. A. If I spake indifinitely and what I said my Letters shew yet this Schollar was so long in the University I think as to know there is a difference between an indâ—â—â—nitâ— and an universal Proposition He is said to reject the Scriptures truly that rejects any part of them as the Jews do the New-Testament when Christ saith Ye do erre not knowing the Scriptures doth not he tax them truly though there were some part of Scripture that these men did know and acknowledge to wit because they did not know but denied or ignorantly perverted the Scriptures testifying of the resurrection T.S. Pag. 8 That you did intend the rejection of the whole Scripâ—ture I prove thus The Scripture as the Saints Rule you say they reject Now whether is a part of Scripture or the whole the Saints Rule If the whole and you go about to prove they reject the Scripture because they deny it to be the Saints Rule then nothing more plain then this That they reject the whole Scripture W.T. He 's a great Undertaker that assumes so much to himself as to discover a mans intentions But to the thing I answer The whole Scripture is the compleat Rule and the several parts of Scripture are the Rule in part Whereupon I adde further That he that rejects all Scripture rejects the whole Rule but he that rejects but a part is truly said to reject Scripture for every part of Scripture is Scripture The quakers therefore denying the Scripture to be the Saints Rule really reject the Scripture that is they reject those Scriptures from which it is necessarily concluded that it is their Rule Now for his Argument its true That they who reject any Scripture as * the Saints Rule â— which I said not of them reject the whole Scripture that is they reject the whole as a Rule yet upon some other account they may retain it Let himself and the quakers look after his Argument and see how they will answer it T.S. Pag. 9 However we will take your own words with your own Interpretations by which you give us to understand that they whom you call quakers do not reject the Scripture in genâ—ral W.T. I do not give any man to understand that they do not reject the Scripture in general for though I did not say they reject it wholly nor meant to say so yet I think they reject it wholly in a very high degree whilest they deny it to be the Word of God a and reproach it as if it were nothing but Ink and Paper as we shall see hereafter All that I did give men to understand is That I did not say they rejected the Scriptures in general neither did I say they did not How glad is a man in his necessity to catch at any thing but yet it is but a folly to catch at nothing Of Ministers receiving Tythes T. S. BY what Rule in Scripture do you receive Tythes for preaching Pag. 10 W.T. I did and do answer him That with respect to our Labour in Preaching we receive a maintenance from these Scripture Rules 1 Cor. 9.14 So hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel Gal. 6.6 In special Luk 10.7 with 1 Cor. 9.9 The Labourer is worthy of his hire which Scriptures he is so wise as to take no notice of I answered further That we received Tythes because for present that 's the allotted maintenance It being the Scripture-Rule that Ministers should be maintained suppose that no particular way of maintenance be prescribed yet that Rule doth evince the Righteousnesse of any lawful way such as that by Tythes is Till he prove that an unlawful way of maintenance we still plead the Scripture-Rule which requires a maintenance T.S. A Father putteth his Son to the University for some certain yeers to learn the Trade of Sermon-making c. W.T. This general prophane fancie I leave for quakers and quaffers and athiests to make merry withal and come to his self-pleasing particulars T.S. If any man dye possest of a rich Parsonage how many of you have presently a call to it Pag. 11 then dayes of fasting and humiliation must be kept pretending to seek God to know who hath the clearest Call and though you are all resolved in your hearts beforehand to get it if you can yet the Name of God and the Prayers of some well-meaning people must be made use of by every one of you as a cloak lest your deceit should be too plainly discovered I know you will call this clamour but I speak plain truth A. 1. There may be just reason for the exchanging of a mans place by the judgement of the Church of God out of respect to the benefit of the Church and the advantage of Jesus Christ And a man may be duly called from a place where there is lesse maintenance to another where there is more to wit because there is more work there which rebukes the affecting of the maintenance Now if any change ungroundedly or passe into any place disorderly whereof here 's no proof for that I shall not plead 2 It is not very like that they who betake themselves to fasting and humiliation are the persons that are guilty of such mis-removeals self-seeking and God seeking do not well agree together nor is it like that Gods people will come together to fast and pray upon a worldlings call sure they take him to be a godly Minister with whom they join in such an exercise and if he prove otherwise so publike a course will make his sin the more observed and so will turn to his greater shame If he be wise therefore though he be not good it is not probable that he will walk in that way mean while this helps to cast a profane contempt upon Gods highest course in difficult cases and teacheth Atheistical people what to say when they see a Minister humbling his soul together with Gods people to seek resolution from him Fasting and prayer they will acknowledge to be good in it self but when any Minister sought to for a removeal comes to practise this course they cry out against it for this man tels them and they be glad to hear it that there is nothing but hypocrisie in it So all fasts for Ministers direction in case of their call from one place to another become a matter of derision 3. This Poetical Relator saith it is thus But how shall we know that he speaks truth Is it certainly true that Ministers that seek to God to clear up their call are resolved and all resolved and all resolved in their hearts before hand to get a rich Parsonage if they can How doth this man know the resolution
of all Ministers hearts I do not think he knows the mens names that do so nor can name any one man upon whom to lay that imputation justly which he layes flatly upon all but yet he knows their hearts will any man think that hath any thing of charity or Christianity in him that all the Ministers in this Nation that fast and pray in this case are thus resolved I will not call this â—lamoâ— as he sayes I will but slander nor is it as himself cals it a â—lain truth but a plain and shameful untruth as I shall now shew T.S. If râ—port be not an 〈…〉 â—ou dâ—d strenuously endeavour to shew your self a faithfuâ— Minister Pag. 11 by your preaching rather at Wells for Tythes then at Ubley for soul W. T. Here I must desire the Reader to turn from his Winter-tale and hear the story of Welâ—â—-business The Inhabitants of the City of Wells namely they of Cuthberts Parish were Petitioners Anno 1646. to the Parliament then sitting that since the Parish was of so vast extent comprehending within its Precincts above ten thousand souls they might therefore obtain the favour to be supplied with Pastors sutable to so great a people This Petition was granted and by an Ordinance of both Houses of Parliament Mr. Samuel Oliver and my self for whom and to whom the People of that forenamed City and Parish were earnest Suitors were constituted and appointed to be their joint Pastors And the sum of three hundred pounds beside the Vicarige there was assigned to be paid out of Dean and Chapters Lands for our maintenance Hereupon so considerable a congregation as this is being destitute of provision our call being so earnest and so unanimous to it and yet our own charges wherein we were setled before needing our help we resolved for a year to bestow our paints at Wâ—lls in our turns every Lords day our own people being willing to want us every other Sabb. that that great place might be supplied Now for this year the maintenance assigned by the Parliament belonged to us Wherefâ—â—â— I took for my part fifty pound not medling with the rest which was neer 100l but leaving it to one that had more need of it then my self But all this while we were solicitous what to do in regard of the solicitations at Wells and the necessities and interests of our own charges And did thereupon make known to our people and to others our purpose of keeping a day of Humiliation to seek the Lord for our direction They that knew Mr. Oliver and that have any fear of God in them will not judge him an Hypocrite that is one that resolved before hand what to do and then came to ask counsel of God He is with God out of the reach of Reviâ—ers for my self I know mine own heart and I thank God can say in the presence of that God that knows it better then my self that I walked with much fear and trembling in that businesse He saies here You are all resolved bâ—fore hand to get a great living if you can I blesse God I am able to say that he speaks most untruly in it and as one that makes no conscience of what he saies For I not only could have had Wells and above 150l per annum there when the maintenance in mine own place was never accounted but 50l per annum and is now much lesse I say I not only could have had VVells as being nominated and designed unto it by the authority of Parliament and called to it by the people but I was most earnestly importuned to have taken it and resided in it not onely by the desires of Christians there but by letters from sundry considerable Persons moving much to accept of the place for the publike good which I confesse made me at a stand in it yet in remembrance of the nature of my first call to my own charge which was more then ordinary the present desires and pressing of my People to detain me and the difficulty of providing a faithfull Minister for them I left Wells returned to them and have now well nigh 40 years lived amongst them But why doth this man whose calumny hath constrained me thus far to trouble the Reader speak so hatefully of the maintenance we take when it was reported of him in a Sermon preached in the City of Bristol and therefore the report is not like to be so egregious a lye as his hath proved to be I say it was reported and related of him before the whole Congregation soon after he had published this Book that he being asked by a known and approved Minister in that City why he left his publike teaching having ability for it his answer to him was that it would not give him a maintenance to which the Minister that asked him the question replied that he would preach the Gospel while he was able if he had never a penny for it Now let all men judge what reason he hath to calumniate other men in the matter of maintenance that hath been found so intent upon it himself W. T. Neither do Ministers take Tithes for preaching c. T. S. They take not Tithes for doing nothing and is not preaching the consideration for which they take them W. T. Their labour in preaching is the consideration for which they take them but maintenance is neither the cause of their preaching nor the end of their preaching nor that which guideâ— and orders and regulates their preaching W. T. Ministers take Tithes because that for present is the maintenance allotted to them T. S. But by whom not by Jesus Christ c. and therefore they ought not to take them W. T. Not by Jesus Christ immediately but yet by Jesus Christ by those Magistrates whom he hath appointed to be nursing fatheâ—s to his Church Isa. 49.23 and therefore to provide that the Ministers of the Church may not want maintenance that the children of the Church may not want milk T. S. 1. qu. Whether Christ was not the end of the Levitical Priesthood W.T. A. Yes but we read of Tythes before there was any Levitical Priesthood and before Lâ—vi was Heb. 7.9 10. T.S. Qu. 2. Whether he that uphâ—ldeth that which is to have an end in Christ doth not deny Christ to be come in the flâ—sh and consequently is Antichrâ—st W. T. A. Tythes as received by the Law of the Nation upon the general account of Maintenance for a Gospel Ministrey are no Appurtenance of the Levitical Priesthood nor are they any necessary Appurtenance at all as being paid before there was any Levitical Priesthood Nor doth Ministers taking of Tythes uphold that Priesthood any more then doth their having of houses to dwell in and glebe Land for their Cattel as the Levites formerly had Cities with their Suburbs for the same ends Numb. 35.7 So that this quaery is to no purpose for the question here is not whether he that upholdeth that which is to have
ought to rendeâ— all their dues Ergo Which argument amounteth to as much as this children ought to be baptized because they ought to be baptized W.T. Suppose those words Render to all their dues be taken only for an Exhortation yet because it is such an Exhortation as is also a Precept and that general it serves sufficiently to infer Infant-Baptism because even Infants are comprehended under those all that must have their due It appears to those that have well viewed this context that the Apostle in the 7. ver. of Rom. 13. falleth upon this new ground and Argument for subjection to Magistrates to wit The pâ—ying of all their dues v. 7. The owing of nothing to any maâ— v 8. This reason he coucheth under the form of an Exhortation yet so as that it hath an argumentative force in it such as we finde more expresly in other parallel Scriptures as Matth. 22.21 Eph. 6.1 Col. 4.1 And the Argument is this If we must render to all their dues then subâ—ection honor tribute must be given to Magistrateâ— but we must render to all their dues Ergo This man doth not like the Apostles-Logick but sayes in effect all this amounts to as much as this Magistrates ought to have â—ribute paid because they ought to have Tribute paid when any man of ordinary understanding cannot but see that this is not a proving of the same by the same but an argument drawn from that which is more general to that which is more particular d and which lieth directly under that general and namely from the general rule of Justice to acts of Justice in particular cases as if one should argue thus It s your duty to do right to every man therefore to do it to me So here the argument is not Children ought to be baptized because they ought but because it is their due and every one ought to have his due So it 's bottom'd on and proved by a fundamental Law of Nature as well as a Precept of Scripture VV.T. The Infant of a believing Parent is a holy child T.S. Paul saith That he with others were by naâ—ure câ—â—â—dren of wrath Pag. 26 but he that is holy is no childe of wrath W T. A. An Infant may be a childe of Wrath naturally and yet be holy faederally as the Infants of believers are who by reason of Gods covenant made with the Parents are not to be reckoned among heathens but among Gods holy people It s true that he that is inherently holy that is that hath the grace and fear of God planted in his heart is not now a child of wrath but we do not say that the Infants of believers are holy in that sense that is by regeneration but only by Covenanâ—-Relaâ—ion T. S. If the holiness mentioned 1 Cor. 7.14 be the foundation of Infant-baptism then may an unbeliever be baptized also for the same holiness that the child had the unbâ—lieving Parent had for the same Greâ—k word that is used for sanctifying the unbelieving parent is used for the holiness of the child And will you say the unbelieving parent had a right to Baptism c. W. T. A. Here 's some colour of an argument but the colour will quickly fade if it be found that the same Greek word hath in several places several significations and applications And so it is ordinarily As in the word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} that is commonly translated a Church sometimes that Greek word signifieth a civil or an uncivil assembly as Act. 19.32 but otherwhere and often a sacred and Church-assembly 1 Cor. 11.18 22. so another Greek word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} sometimes signifies that which is redundant and supeâ—fluous 2 Cor. 9 1. sometimes that which is laudably abundant and eminent Mat. 5.47 Rom 3.1 Nor is the Greek word here used alwayes taken in the same sense for sometimes it signifieth onely an outward separation and coming from the world to the Church Heb. 10 29 sometimes an inward renovation and a passing from nature to grace 1 Cor. 6 11. 2 Thes. 2.13 yea in the same verse John 17.19 it s taken in divers senses Christ sanctifying himself for us otherwise then he sanctifie thus he sanctifieth himself by the filling of his humane nature with perfect holiness for our use and the consecrating of himself to suffer for us in that nature He sanctifieth us by regenerating us and that more and more to newness of life by the truth of the Gospel 2. I answer further that the Greek word here applied to the parent and the child is not altogether the same that is it is not the same for the part of speech though it be the same as to the Tâ—eme or root It is said the children are holy {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} but it is not said the unbelieving parent is holy that is holy personally as the children are where one Parent is a Believer but onely that he is sanctified {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} that is is holy relatively in relation for so it is as I conceive rightly interpreted unto marriage-communion about which the question there was raised and as concerning which the Apostle wholly there by way of resolution declareth that there is a lawful use of matrimony though one party be an Heathen and one only a Believer which also extendeth so far as that the children of such a couple shall not be accounted unholy because one Parent is an Heathen but hoâ—y that is persons that are Church-children and to whom the Covenant of God belongs because one Parent is a Believer T. S. Pag. 17 Many that are drunkards swearers whore-masters and professed enemies of the Lord have received the mark of Baptism and call you these Gods people Doth this distingu-them from a profane Indian W. T. A. 1. The notorious baptized persons whereof he speaks have very much to answer for yet if God say Mâ— people a to them that had the treasures of wickedness in the house of the wicked and the scant measure which is abominable yea that walked after the idolatrous counsels and statutes of Omri and Ahab why may we not give even such wretched men that title were not they of the Church of Corinth Gods people and reckoned among called Saints b against whom the Apostle draws up so sad a charge 2 Cor. 12.20 21. yea was not the incestuous person who exceeded the Heathen in wickedness one of them till he was excommunicated If not what had they to do to excommunicate him since the Church hath nothing to do to â—udge them that are without 1 Cor. 5.12 And is it not plain in the same chapter that a man that is called a Brother may be a fornicator covetous idolater railer extortioneâ— drunkard c. 1 Cor. 5.11 I do not mean that such are to be countenanced in the Church or
yet he did not hide ink and paper there that he might not sin against God Psal. 119 11 Are the great things of the word and Gospel of God which are said to be the power of God a to convert the son rejoyce the heart enlighten the eyes b which are able to make wise to salvation c come to be nothing else but paper and ink was ink and paper sweeter to David then the hoâ—y and the hony comb Ps. 19 10 119.103 Doth not Christ say that the Scriptures testifie of him John 5.39 But if all the ink and paper in the world were brought into America would that without any thing else testifie of Christ to the poor Heathens there let quakers quake to think that by this word Christ will â—udge the world John 12.48 and ink and paper if there were no more never drew any â—aâ— to execution in a way of justice Doth this Writer and Railer on the Ministry of this Nation and that offers such indignity to Scripture think he hath nothing to answer for but the wasting of so much ink and paper I wish he may think of more Yet it may be granted that the Law works not without Gospel-grace nor the Gospel to salvation without the sanctifying spirit But it is notwithstanding without that grace and spirit an informing word d a convincâ—ng word e and the savour of death to death f none of which can be reasonably ascribed to a poor thing called ink and paper T. S. Was there not faith and was not Jesus Christ before the written word and yet must that be first believed or and be the ground of our faith W. T. A. To leave out his empty exclamations he may know that the question is not what men were to do before the word of God was written then they were to ground their faith upon it as it was delivered then though not written but what we are to do unto whom it is written The Word of God being now written I must first believe it before I believe in Christ for how can any rest his faith on the person testified of if he do not believe the testimony T. S. Is not the foundation spoken of Eph. 2.20 that Jesus which was both preacht and believed on by the Prophets and Apostles Pag. 20 W. T. A. The foundation spoken of in the latter part of the â— and expressed by the chief corner stone is Christ alone The foundation spoken of in the former part of the v. is if we speak of the essential foundation or the personal foundation Christ also whom the Prophets and Apostles preached and held forth as the sole foundation for believers to build up but if we speak of the doctrinal foundation it is the word of God delivered by the Prophets and Apostles The word of the Prophets and Apostles was the foundation teaching Christ himself the foundation taught so that to say we are founded on the Apostles and Prophets that is on their doctrine and that we are founded on Christ is upon the matter all one a for their doctrine was in sum Christ onely there is this difference the doctrine is the immediate foundation Christ the â—lâ—imaâ—e on that we build our faith on this our selves But the business in hand will be more plainly made out to those Christians whom I would assist by answering two questions 1. qu. How can the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles be called a foundation A. Because we are to build our faith upon that doctrine when Christ saith Upon this rock will I build my Church I conceive it is rightly understood thus upon this truth preached and manifested to the world to wit Thou art the Christ the true Messias and Son of the living God Will I as upon a Main ground-stone found the faith of all Believers b or I will cause the doctrine of this self same faith to be the foundation of my Church c This is agreeable to our ordinary manner of speaking which is Build upon my word this shall be done for you If a King shall speak such words to a subject he fals to building presently on that foundation such a foundation and infinitely above that in firmness and stability is the Word of God which faithful men therefore build upon as the people sometimes leaned and rested on the words of Hâ—zekias 2 Chron. 32.8 with Judg. 16.29 where the same original word is used 2. Qu. How doth it appear that this doctrinal foundation is spoken of or is to be taken notice of in this Scripture A. Because Apostles and Prophets are named and why should they be named but to point at their Ministry and the main part thereof namely the manifestation of Jesus Christ both to come and already come upon which manifestations Believers have ever built and so setled themselves on the Rock Christ This is it that Calvin marks He doth not saith he name Paâ—riarchs or Godly Kings but onely those that had the office of teaching and that were set over the Church for the building thereof 〈◊〉 therefore he concludes that the faith of the Church ought to be founded on this doctrine To conclude this I shall not deny that in these words The foundation of the Apostlâ—s and Prophets Christ is principally intended All that I contend for is that the doctrine and Ministery of the Apostles and Prophets is here also included and contained under the name of Foundation as that which is no way opposite but subservient unto the great foundation Jesus Christ for first our faith is built upon the word of God revealed to and by the Apostles and Prophets and then and in that way our persons are built upon the Son of God And thus were the Ephesians built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets to wit by receiving their doctrine by faith a and by being thereby put in as living stones into that spiritual Temple whereof Jesus Christ is the Foundation in regard of superstruction and the corner-stone in regard of coagmentation union and coalition of Jews and Gentiles T. S. Could you so confidenâ—ly give Paul the lye Pag. 20 who saith expresly Other foundation then Jesus Christ can no man lay W. T. Christ alone is the foundation revealed whereon to build my person The Scripture is but the foundation revealing whereon I build my faith I shall ever say that the only person the Church is built on is the Son of God but that I may build on that person I must have such an infallible revelation of him as I may firmly build upon T. S. Doth not Calvin conclude you to be a lyar who saith in terminis that the Apostle doth in that Scripture intend Jesus Christ to whom the Prophets and Apostles did bear witness * W. T. A. He cannot speak like a Christian that is Pag. 20 meekly or like a Citizen that is civilly he must speak like a quaker of whose Religion rudeness
to be made Ministers for which no doubt there were able and faithful Instruments and Agents employed As for his Expression of keeping Chaplains that 's but to make himself his company merry who had more need to be made wise T.S. But who are those that tryed you were they not such as are like unto your self Pag. 35 could they try your gifts who had not the gift themselves Could those that were enemies to the cross of Christ try who were fit to be made Ministers of Christ c. W.T. A. 1. If they were as he saith like my self I leave it to others to speak and judge whether they were such as he describes afterward nor would he speak so of former-Ordainers without any exception or discretion if he were as careful to speak the Truth as he is vvilling to speak the vvorst 2. Though Tryars be very blamable in regard of their personal carriage yet having abilities in themselves and rules to walk by in their examination they might make a true discovery in the capacity of Tryars An Artificer may be a dissolute man in his life and yet being skilfull in his calling may be fitter than a man of better carriage to try those that pretend to that Calling And as for grace and goodness besides that many that were Examiners and Ordainers formerly were godly men even he that we cannot say is possest with true grace himself yet may be so farre acquianted wiâ—h it as to be able to enquire into the probable evidences of it Whereof on the other side the holiest man that is is not able to give an infalible character in another man W.T. And that there might be an outward calling we were Ordained by Bishops that were Presbyters and other Presbyters that were not Bishops who were to be and werâ— joyned with them in our Ordination T. S. You have well derived your Succession and very learnedly acknowledge your self and your Brethren to be Romes Emissaries brats of Babylon c. W.T. A. 1. He must have leave to say any thing and it must be true because he saies so who in all his Book shewes himself a man of a deceitfull tongue But were those Bishops and Presbyters Antichristian that for the testimony of Jesus were buried in Antichristian flames Or divers others that have imployed themselves from time to time since that time in the opposing of Antichrist and his antichristian doctrines renouncing also in their practice his waies of worship 2. If he say they were Antichristian because their Ordination and call to the Ministry came from Antichrist although I doubt not they that fear God sufficiently see the Lords approbation of our Ministry by the effect they have found it to have on their hearts and souls yet for their further satisfaction this being a thing that is still urged by those of all sorts that are adversaries to the Ministry I shall give this more particular account of it First as ordinary Ministers that is Pastors and Teachers are from Christ Ephes. 4.11 and the ordinary way of their ordination also is from Christ Tit. 1.5 so the ordaining of publick Teachers in that way was not from but long before Antichrist for we find it in Scripture Acts 14.23 1 Tim. 4.14 If the Ministry be said to have been under Antichrist it is not denyed but that amounts to no more but that it passed through Antichrist as the Scriptures also did and the ordinance of Baptism which it is confessed are not therefore to be rejected Now though it be granted that our Ministry came through Antichrist yet that doth not prove that it came from him but that it came not from him for how could that come from him that was before him and onely passed through him as an Army through an enemies countrey Nor is it denyed that this and other Ordinances were defiled in the passage but its one thing to be made â—oul another thing to be made null and to loose their nature and substance It is observed that Priests and School doctors ordained in popish Churches and Schools were by Oath solemnly bound to confute errour and to maintain the antient Apostolick Faith I am saith Luther a baptized Christian and withall a sworn Doctor of the holy Scripture and a daily preacher whom it concerns in regard of my name condition oath and office to abâ—lish perverse false seducing impious doctrines or at least to hinder them And this reason he gives of his burning of popish and poisoning b Books As this on the one side addes little to the reputation of the Church of Rome who though they had the things of God yet have managed them for the devils use no more than it added to Belshashers honour and happiness that he had in his custody the Golden vessels that were taken out of the Temple of the house of God to drink and quaff in Dan. 5.3 So on the other side it cannot be justly reckoned a disparagement to our Ministry received from Christ and his Apostles and the Primitive Churches that it hath passed through and been polluted by the Romish Channel no more than it was a dishonour to those holy Vessels or them that bare them and ministred with them Isa 52.11 that they were abused to the praise of Idol gods in Babilon Dan. 5.4 when after they came to be used according to the minde and to the honour of the true God in Sion Secondly I answer That if there had been no lawfull Call to the Ministry in the Church of Rome no not for substance yet our first Reformers and noble Predecessors might be surely said to be lawfully called because they being men of extraordinary abilities spirits and zeal for God and so inwardly and eminently qualified and called were also accepted chosen and clos'd with and outwardly called by the Church of God that is by those Christians that were lovers of the truth and wayes of God in those corrupt times whereby they might be truely said as things then stood to be sufficiently set apart for the ministerial work Obj. But you say Ministers are to be Ordained by Ministers and to be set apart by the Presbytery c Answ. True regularly and in settled times and when it may be had for Paul doth not send to the Christians of Creâ—e to Ordain Elders themselvâ—s but he leaves Titus to do it But many things may be done lawfully in a confused time and when Churches are in constituting and reforming that are not to be allowed when they are once formed and settled When a town is on fire every one that hath a Bucket that hath strength and means to do it is called to quench it The world was all on a flame as it were by the popish fire This fire was to be quenched that it might not devoure all The first Reformers had Buckets that is gifts and abilities to draw water out of the wells of salvation to prevent the consumption of all right
to the Reader le ts all men know that he offered to come among them and confer with them and they refused it and so put him to write and that 's their fashion If a man would write they put him to confer to no end because with men uncapable of conviction If he would confer they 'l force him to write Mr. Skip out of his own experience conversing familiarly with them speaks thus of them Sometimes when I have desired to have had some fair reasonings with them about some things and found they would not I have told them they were possessed of a dumb Devill as well as a railing Devill for Satan is all upon extreams Worlds wonder p 24. 3. That others may beware of them many Books have been written to confute their opinions by which though be there little hope of doing good on inveterate Quakers they being too like those of whom it was said Who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come Luke 37. yet we believe they will effectually warn other Christians to beware of their way Of Imposition of hands T. S. YOu say that imposition of hands is a sign of consecration and the blessing of God settling on them so consecrated Hath not imposition of hands been used on them that are enemies to God and goodness and doth the blessing of God settle on such W.T. A. It is a sign of consecration because used to that end Exod. 29.10 Acts 13.3 And a sign of the blessing of God settling on them so consecrated because we finde in Scripture blessing adjoyned to the laying on of hands Gen. 48.14 15. Mark 10.16 it is expresly said that Joshua was full of the Spirit of wisedome for Moses had laid his hands upon him Deut. 34.29 And the gift whereby we may understand both the calling of the Ministry Ephes. 4.11 and qualifications for that calling was given Timothy with the laying on of hands Tim. 4.14 Yet Ministers that impose hands are far from assuming to themselves the giving of grace which belongs to God onely nor do they make it an operative ceremony but whilest they use that Rite and declarative Sign which the Scripture holds forth in the aâ—tion of Ordination they humbly hope that through our Lord Jesus Christ by the solemn prayer of the Churches that blessing shall be obtained of God which he hath formerly been pleased to give in that way Nor is it of any moment that divers so Ordained have proved bad afterward for are not the Sacraments of Baptism and the Lords Supper signs of inward spirituall grace and of a blessed condition to those that do as they ought partake in them though to many they be condemning Ordinances because they reject and rebell against the Lords conditions required on their part T. S You prove the laying on of hands is not the foundation of your Call To which I say You esteem it so much the foundation that you judge him no Minister that hath not received it W. T. A. If any do judge so which I believe he cannot shew that doth not prove that imposition of hands is the foundation of our Call but onely a necessary ingredient to a regular Call T. S. Whereas you say that they that do assume unto themselves the name of Saints do persecute the general company of ordinary Ministers in their scolding Books I answer They who were Saints of Old did call an Idol Shepheard by his name and a greedy dumb Dog by his name W. T. A. But they did not write to all the publick Teachers of the Nation wherein they lived and call them so T.S. If any charge those with that of which they are not guilty I am no Patron of them but do judge them Revilers W.T. A. I wish he may judge himself according to his own rule that he may not be judged of the Lord for hath he not written To all the publick Teachers of this Nation And doth he not charge those so to whom he writes If he charge some onely this Book hath no reason for some yea many in all Ages were bad that were lawfully called If he meâ—n all or say that there are not a very considerable company that cannot be charged with being Idol Shepheards or greedy Dogs then his Book hath no Patron for he will be no Patron of such as revile Of Calling to the civill Magistrate for the punishing of the open enemies of Religion T. S. I challenge you to produce me one example through all the Scriptures of any Saint that persecuted any for conscience sake or that called to the civill Power to punish Hereticks W.T. You finde the Prophet Elijah calling to King Ahab for a tryal that brought many false Prophets to execution 1 King 18.19.40 T.S. How do you prove the Prophets of Baal to be Hereticks any more than the poor Indians in America that worship the Creatures W.T. I did not say the Prophets of Baal were Hereticks nor was it needfull for his question was extended to the punishing of men for conscience sake but yet why may not such be called a Hereticks who were habitual and most obstinate opposers of the truth yea of the nature of God in their most abominable Idolatry And must the poor Indians therefore be Hereticks who never heard of God nor were ever convinced of the evill of their Idolatrous worship because they were so that were bred up in the knowledge of God and had the true Prophets of God among them by whom they might and should have been but never would be reclaimed T.S. Doth the Scripture say that Elijah call'd to Ahab to punish Baals Prophets who was himself a worshipper of Baal or doth it onely say that he bad him send and gather them together and do you read that Ahab did more than Elijah desired of him W.T. A. The afore-cited Scripture shews that Elijah called to Ahab when the Kingdome was pestered and pined with Idolatry and why made he his address to him but to have the assistance of his kingly power for a course and concertation tending to and ending in the false Prophets execution which he being a Prophet did in all likelihood fore-see should come to such an issue yea this Objector saith after It cannot be imagined but that if Elijahs God had not been known to be the God that answered by fire the portion of Baals Prophets had fallen to Elijahs Lot Therefore on the other side it may be reasonably said that if God did answer Elijah by fire then Baals Prophets should undoubtedly have the portion which in conclusion befell them else the business had been unjustly carried and would have become an useless tryall Should Ministers make such address to Authority as Elijah did what out-cries should we hear when there be so many cryes against us though we be in many respects on the suffering side Nor doth it follow that because Ahab himself was a worshipper of Baal therefore he would not