Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	call_v	lord_n	name_n	4,012	5	5.2726	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A94227	Tvvo speeches in Parliament of the right honourable William, Lord Vicount Say and Seale Mr. of his Majesties Court of Wards and Liveries, and one of his Majesties most honourable Privie Councell, the first upon the bill against bishops power in civill affaires and courts of judicature. The other a declaration of himself touching the liturgie, and separation.	Saye and Sele, William Fiennes, Viscount, 1582-1662.	1641 (1641)	Wing S795; ESTC R230189	10,162	16

to them to conceive prayer or to helpe themselves by the use of any other forme they please aswell as this prescribed And let them practise the same indifferently that so it may be manifest the fault rests in the person and not in the Service in the negligence of him that may offer better if he will not in the Injunction of that which is offered And I will not refuse to come to prayer for I take the sinne then to bee personall and to reside in the person officiating onely I know not whether I expresse my selfe clearely to be understood in this or not and it may seeme to be a nice scrupulosity give me leave therefore to indeavour to cleare it by an instance or two In the time of the Law when God appointed himselfe to be worshipped by offerings and sacrifices the shadowes and types of those truths which were to come If a poore man that had not ability to bring a Bullocke or a Ramme or a Lambe had brought a paire of Turtle Doves or two young Pigeons it would have beene in him an acceptable service But if a man of ability who had heards and flocks should out of negligence or covetousnesse have spared the cost of a Bullocke or a Ramme and brought young Pigeons his service would have beene rejected and himselfe punished how much more would the service have beene abomination if men should have taken authority to have injoyned all to bring no other but Turtles or young Pigeons because some were not able to doe more In one case there might be a tollerable and lawfull use of that which otherwise used especially if generally injoyned would have beene most unlawfull God will be worshipped with the fatte and the best of the inwards the best of mens gifts and abilities which he that worships or officiates in worshipping is to doe at his owne perill And if it be left free unto him the worship may be lawful to him that joyneth with him therein in it selfe though performed in a negligent and so in a sinfull manner by the Minister but if that manner bee injoyned the Service it selfe is to be refused Now in the time of the Gospell God hath appointed the foolishnesse of preaching for so the world accompts it to be the meanes whereby he will save those that beleeve I conceive where there are no gifts inabling men to preach there might bee a lawfull and profitable use of reading of printed Sermons and Homilies and in such case they might very lawfully be heard But if some men upon pretence to prevent extravagant preaching should take upon them to set forth a booke of publike or common Sermons fit for all times and occasions and should injoyne Ministers to conforme to those and use no other preaching at all but the reading of these common Sermons or Homilies so devised for publike worship this would make it utterly unlawful and to be professed against as that which were the bringing in of a humane device and injunction in the place and in stead of Gods ordinance to the exclusion thereof as the Pharisees to establish traditions of their owne made void the commandements of God let it bee considered what difference there can bee found betweene these but onely this Use and Custome hath enured us to that of Prayer not so in this of Preaching and therefore the evill of it would easily appeare unto us if so injoyned My Lords let me presume upon your patience so farre further as to give me leave to speake to the other imputation laid upon mee that I am a Separatist and the greatest in England and first I shall say of this word Separatist as that learned man Mr. Hales of Eaton saith in a little Manuscript of his which I have seene That where it may be rightly fixed and deservedly charged it is certainly a great offence But in common use now amongst us it is no other then a Theologicall scar-crow wherewith the potent and prevalent party useth to fright and enforce those who are not of their opinions to subscribe to their dictates without daring to question them or bring them to any rule or examination either of Scripture or reason And he observeth that this was too usuall even in ancient times as well as now Secondly I say that there is a twofold separation one from the Universall or Catholike Church which can no otherwise be made but by denying the faith for Faith and Love are the Requisites unto that communion the other is a separation from this or that particular Church or congregation and that not in respect of difference with them in matter of faith or love but in dislike onely of such corruptions in their externall worships and Liturgies as they doe admit of and would injoyne upon others This is a separation not from their persons as they are Christians but from their corruptions in matter of worship as they are therewith defiled And this separation every man that sin keepe himselfe pure from other mens sins and not sin against his own conscience must make And I will ingenuously confesse that there are many things in many Churches or Congregations in England practised and injoyned upon all to be practised and suffered which I cannot practise nor admit of except I should sin against the light of my conscience untill I may out of the word of God be convinced of the lawfulnesse of them which hitherto I could never see sufficient ground for But my Lords this is so farre from making me the greatest Separatist in England that it cannot argue me to be any at all for my Lords the Bishops doe know that those whom they usually apply this terme unto are the Brownists as they call them by another name and they know their tenents The truth is they differ with us in no fundamentall point of doctrine or saving truth as I know Their failing is in this they hold that there is no true Church in England no true Ministry no true worship which depend the one upon the other they say all is Antichristian here is their errour they distinguish not betweene the bene esse or puritie of a true Church and the esse or true being of it though with many defects and grosse corruptions But conclude that because such things are wanting which are indeed necessary to the well being of a true Church and to be desired therefore there is none at all in being I hold no such opinion but doe beleeve to the contrary That there are in England many true Churches and a true Ministrie which I doe heare and with which Churches I could joyne in communion were those yokes of bondage which are laid upon them taken off and those corruptions removed which they doe contrary as I thinke to their dutie yeeld unto and admit of and this I am sure no separatist in England holdeth that deserveth that name Therefore I hope your Lordships will in that respect let me stand right in your opinions I shall now end with two requests The one that your Lordships will please to pardon me for troubling you with so long a discourse concerning my selfe I have not used it heretofore and I am not like to offend againe in the same kind it is but once and your Lordships will consider the occasion The second is humbly to intreat of you that where you know there is one and the same God worshiped one and the same faith imbraced one and the same spirit working love and causing an unblameable conversation without any offence to the State in your brethren that in all these concurre with you you will not suffer them for Ceremonies and things to you indifferent but not to them but burthens which without offence to the State or prejudice to the Churches you may take off if you will to be thrust out of the Land and cut off from their native Countrey for if you thus shall wound the consciences of your brethren you will certainly offend and sinne against Christ FINIS

by the practice and doctrine of the Apostles and I may add by the Canons of ancient Councels grounded thereupon is prohibited to the Ministers of the Gospell and shewed to be such a distraction unto them from their Callings and function as wil bring a woe upon them and is not reasonable for them to admit of If they shall notwithstanding intangle themselves withall and enter into it will bring a guilt upon their soules and hurt them in respect of their consciences In the next place it doth blemish them and strike them in their credit so farre from truth is that position which they desire to possesse the world withall that unlesse they may have these outward trappings of worldly pomp added to the Ministry that Calling will grow into contempt and be despised The truth is these things cast contempt upon them in the eyes of men They gaine them cap and courtesie but they have cast them out of the consciences of men and the reason is this every thing is esteemed as it is eminent in its owne proper excellencie the eye in seeing not in hearing the eare in hearing not in speaking The one would be rather monstrous then comely the other is ever acceptable being proper so is it with them their proper excellency is spirituall the deniall of the world with the pomp and preferments and imployments thereof this they should teach and practise but when they contrary hereunto seeke after a worldly excellency like the great men of the world and to rule and dominere as they doe contrary to our Saviours precept Vos autem non sic but it shall not be so amongst you in steid of honor esteem they have brought upon themselves in the hearts of the people that contempt and odium which they now lye under and that justly and necessarily because the world seeth that they prefer a worldly excellency and run after it and contend for it before their owne which being spirituall is farre more excellent and which being proper to the Ministry is that alone which will put a value and esteem upon them that are of that Calling As these things hurt themselves in their consciences and credit so have they and if they be continued still will make them hurtfull to others The reason is because they break out of their owne orbe and move irregularly there is a curse upon their leaving of their owne place The heavenly bodies while they keep within their own spheres give light and comfort to the world But if they should break out and fall from their regular and proper motions they would set the world on fire so have these done while they kept themselves to the work of their ministry alone and gave themselves to prayer and the ministry of the Word according to the example of the Apostles the world received the greatest benefits by them they were the light and life thereof But when their ambition cast them down like starres from heaven to earth and they did grow once to be advanced above their brethren I doe appeale to all who have beene versed in the ancient Ecclesiasticall stories or moderne Histories whether they have not been the common incendiaries of the Christian world never ceasing from contention one with another about the precedency of their Sees and Churches Excommunicating one another drawing Princes to be parties with them and thereby casting them into bloody warres Their ambition and intermedling with secular affaires and State businesse hath bin the cause of shedding more Christian blood then any thing else in the Christian world and this no man can deny that is versed in History But we need not go out of our own Kingdome for examples of their insolency and cruelty when they had a dependency upon the Pope and any footing thereby out of the Land there were never any that carried themselves with so much scorn and insolency towards the Princes of this Kingdom as they have done Lincolne Two of them the Bishop that last spake hath named but instances of many more may be given whereof there would be no end Although the Pope be cast off yet now there is another inconvenience no lesse prejudiciall to the Kingdome by their sitting in this House and that is they have such an absolute dependency upon the King that they sit not here as freemen That which is requisite to freedome is to be void of hopes and feares Hee that can lay downe these is a free-man and will be so in this house But for the Bishops as the case stands with them it is not likely they will lay aside their hopes greater Bishopricks being still in expectancy and for their fears they cannot lay them downe since their places and seats in Parliament are not invested in them by blood and so hereditary but by annexation of a Barony to their office and depending upon that office so that they may be deprived of their office and thereby of their places at the Kings pleasure they doe not so much as sit here dum bene se gesserint as the Judges now by your Lordships petition to the King have their places granted them but at will and pleasure and therefore as they were all excluded by Edw. the first as long as hee pleased and Lawes made excluso Clero so may they be by any King at his pleasure in like manner they must needs therefore bee in an absolute dependencie upon the Crowne and thereby at devotion for their votes which how prejudiciall it hath beene and will be to this house I need not say I have now shewed your Lordships how hurtfull to themselves and others these things which the bill would take away have beene I will only answer some Objections which I have met withall and then crave your pardon for troubling you so long Object 1. It will be said that they have beene very antient 2. That they are established by law 3. That it may be an infringement to the priviledges of the House of Peeres for the house of Commons to send up a Bill to take away some of their members To these three objections the answer will be easie 1. To the first Antiquity is no good plea for that which is by experience found to be hurtfull the longer it hath done hurt the more cause there is now to remove it that it may doe no more besides other irregularities are as antient which have bin thought fit to be redressed and this is not so antient but that it may truly be said Non fuit sic ab initio 2. For being established by Law the law-makers have the same power and the same charge to alter old lawes inconvenient as to make new that are necessary 3. For priviledge of the House it can be no breach of it for either estate may propose to other by way of bill what they conceive to be for publick good and they have power respectively of accepting or refusing There are two other Objections which may seeme to have