A Briefe ANSWER Unto a Book Intituled SHETINAH OR A Demonstration of the Divine Presence in places of Religious Worship Published by Iohn Stillingfleet who stiles himself M. A. Rector of Beckingham in Lincoln-shire and late Fellow of St. Iohns Colledge in Cambridge In which Book he hath declared many perverse things against the people of God called Quakers and for so much as is considerable wherein that people are any way concerned it is in the power of God here Answered By one who is set for the defence of the Gospel WILLIAM SMITH But the wicked are like the troubled Sea when it cannot rest whose waves cast up mire and dirt Isai 57. 20. Printed in the Year 1664. To the READER Reader IT is my love to Gods precious Truth and People that doth engage me to this undertaking for I am not a man of strife though at this time constrained to make a just defence against the force of an open enemy and though the battel hath been long and enemies many that hath appeared against us that the Answers which hath been given to several opposers might be sufficient on our behalf yet seeing that they still rise up against us in open view we have streâ—gth in the Lord to fight the good fight of faith for the trutb of God hath ever met with many and great oppositions in every manifestation through all ages and it hath alwaies been opposed as errour and delusion and such as have lived in it as hereticks and seducers and so the truth not being known as it is it hath been censured by strangers to be the greatest delusion who in darknesse and blindnesse hath alwaies oppressed and persecuted the birth born of it and so it is at this day as by the great opposition oppression and persecution of those that live in it doth clearly manifest and whereas John Stillingfleet hath endeavoured to cloud the Sun in a clear day yet his darknesse cannot remain upon the glorious truth but with the light and power of God is removed as airy vapours therefore Reader be equal in thy judgement and let Gods witnesse determine the matter and though many answers be but short yet if thou reads with that of God in thee thou wilt find them full to the matter stated and if thou by diligent reading reap any profit to thy soul the end of my labour will be answered who am a lover of all souls W. S. READER thou maist take notice that John Stillingfleet's Book was Answered more at large in the 10. Moneth 1662. but through miscarriage at the Presse some part of it was lost and the remaining part is but lately come to my hands which is the reason that this came no sooner to view Given forth the second time in the 11. Moneth 1663. A Brief Answer c. Iohn Stillingfleet I shall collect some heads out of thy Book wherein the truth and people of God are most concerned and briefly answer them THou hast directed an Epistle to one whom thou calls Right Honourable Anthony Lord Ashbie one of his Maâ—esties most Honourable Privy Counsel and thou acknowledges his goodnesse and favours and upon such considerations thou sayest thou prostrates the Treatise of thy Book at his Honours feet not with any hopes to equallize his worth or merit his patronage with so slender an Essay as it is Answ Such gratuities for favours manifest but little kindnesse and if well considered will not be found worthy of any acceptation for it being a Treatise against the truth and people of God it is not to be received or entertained as a seasonable gift and being but a slendour Essay it is in the lowest and weakest manner offered in thy own way and so altogether unworthy of reception by him at whose feet thou hast prostrated it Thou sayest the Majestick Shetinah and the divine presence in Gospel worship fills both pages of thy ensuing discourse Answ The majesty and glory of God is in himself and cannot be engraven or printed in pages and as for thy matter with which thou hast filled thy pages it doth not savour of the divine presence as presently will appear but thy pages are filled with thy own conceptions and thou offers them as divine truths Thou sayest all thy ambition is by this slender Essay to act the part of Socrates his staffe Answ Socrates staffe and the divine presence is not alike and thou hast soon forgotten that thou said thy pages were filled with the divâ—ne presence but it is here manifested what thou fills them withall and what thy Essay tendeth to and what thy ambition is to act which indeed is more like a heathen then a Christian Thou sayest too too many want such a staffe to correct them for their errours and that the Ministers of the Gospel are looked upon as the Pursivants of the great whore of Babylon and are set at open defiance Answ Would thou be correcting errour with thy staffe before thou hast shewed what errour is and who they are that live in it and did ever Gospel Ministers correct errours with a staffe though too too many have lived in manifest errours and if errours be so to be corrected then I am sure the staffe would fall to thy own share who calls truth errour and would be correcting it with a staffe which manifests that thou art a Pursivant of the great whore indeed and we cannot but pity thee though we set thy staffe at open defiance but Gospel Ministers are owned and honoured and that in love unfeigned Thou sayest the Spirit of life the light within the everlasting word the everlasting Gospel are the choice Rarieties that will rellish only in the curious palâ—ates of our Quakers and in the mean time thou sayest the Church of God lyes destitute and forlorn Answ Yes these are the things indeed which is choice food unto us and therein we rellish the sweetnesse of the heavenly virtue by which our souls are abundantly refreshed and this is our wine and milk without money or price and therefore we cannot buy and trade with thee and can the Church of God lye destitute where these things are loved and wouldst thou be accounted a Gospel Minister and would not have people to love and feed upon the everlasting word and the everlasting Gospel What Gospel dost thou preach if it be not everlasting but with the light of the Gospel thou art comprehended and art found out of the Spirit of life and light within and so thou preachest thy own words and not the word everlasting Thou sayest they cry down all stipends of preachers as the hire of the great whore of Babylon and the legal maintenance by tithes as an introduction to Antichristianisme Answ Yes we do so for the whore hath set them up and they are nourished in her lap and we say that legal maintenance by tithes are not only an introduction to Antichristianism but is practised in Antichrists Kingdome and wouldst thou be a Gospel Minister and
art pleading for stipends and tithes thy doctrine demonstrates thy principle and thy practice doth manifest that Christ never sent thee for none of his Ministers ever took stipends or tithes for their labour in the Gospel and therefore thou art found out of their way and practice for which cause thy ministry is denied Thou also hast directed a Preface to the Reader wherein thou sayest the main scope and design of thy present undertaking is to vindicate the publick worship of God and his sacred ordinances from that undervaluing contempt which hath been thrown upon them by Quakers c. Answ Thy scope and design and undertaking is for desolution and as for the Quakers they nâ—ither undervalue nor contemn the publick worship of God nor his sacred ordinances for they have not so learned Christ but thy undertaking is to vindicate those things which God hath not appointed nor ordained and such things we do deny but we worship God in the Spirit which is the publick worship for it is without limitation and it is thy worship which is private who creeps into a house made with hands and wouldst limit the holy One unto it to be worshipped and thus thou ravines about in thy own way and calls evil good and undertakes to vindicate it Thou sayest Hereticks are the greater foxes and the lesser foxes and hunting and taking of such are not only a noble recreation adaequate indeed for the vast ability of the most generously spirited Christians but also a very charitable undertaking for the Church of God in those that can but any way help forward so serviceable a design Answ Thou thirsts to have thy design promoted and so presents it to others as a noble recreation and a charitable undertaking for Christians but true Christians did never recreate themselves after that manner nor never were found in such an undertaking for Paul saith after some admonitions a Heretick is to be rejected if he refuse to hear but he doth not say hunt them and take them and destroy them and Paul was a good Christian but thou art promoting thy design against the innocent and under the name of foxes would have them hunted and taken by which it is seen what is in thy heart if thy hands had power for it is to be understood that a lamb never hunted a fox but it is the nature of a fox to hunt the lambs and if he can come to his prey he devours and destroyes them and a fox hath his hole for the day and ravines in the night mark that and that is the hunter and devourer which is thy secret design but thou art chained and the lambs preserved Thou saist where could we find the proverb more fully verefied then in the subtil deluding Schismaticks of our age and for bloudy cruelty can we find a parallel of these where they get power and is it not high time saist thou to endeavour the reclaiming and reformation of those whose main intendment is to ruine the Church of God and deny the precious Truths and Ordinances of the Gospel Answ These â—hings are certainly thy own and it is high time for thee to reclaim and reform thy unruly spirit which is found in the highest degree of enmity and cruelty which the Quakers were never guilty of for their principle leads them in love and peace and good will to all men and that line doth not parallel with bloud-thirsty men who are destroying one another about their worships and Religion and it is high time that such were reclaimed and reformed from their iniquity of which the Quakers were never guilty Thou faist the Wolves were destroyed out of the Land by a victorious Prince oh saist thou that we could see the like deliverance from the Foxes Answ Here the bottome of the pit is come up and a murderer is seen which would destroy the innocent as Foxes and would have the help of a Prince to do it by which thou shewest the nature of a Wolf and the Land is spread over with too many such as thou art that the Lambs can hardly find an outward place to lie down quietly amongst you Thou saist for Iustice that puts thee upon looking well about thee at home since in that little spot of ground divine providence and goodnesse hath called thee to be resident upon in the work and calling of a Minister of the Gospel thou hast found many even too many saist thou of these little Foxes to have their fixed abode being sadly perverted by the grosse and strong delusions of the Quakers Answ Thou hast already manifested thy Justice and it is seen to be in the enmity and thy residence in that place as a Gospel Minister was never so ordered by Gods providence and goodnesse but a great Living called thee and in it man hath placed thee and it is for thy gain that thou looks so well about thee and if such as thou calls Foxes could put into thy mouth willingly as thou takes it from them unlawfully then it is like thou wouldst blot out the name of Foxes and give them the name of Christians and in this stands thy Justice to feed upon the fat and to live at ease in thy residence and for such whose fixed abode is there whom thou calls Foxes they was converted to the faith of Christ before thou came to be resident amongst them and it is the truth of God which they have received by which they are turned from errour and delusions and their fixed abode is their natural right and they are a people whom I very well know and I know that they live peaceably soberly and are of an honest conversation and thou hast nothing against them justly saving this one thing that they worship the God of their Fathers after the manner which thou calls heresie Thou saist they are hurried to a high degree of contempt of publick prayers preaching sacraments c. and these by right saist thou are part of my charge though they have withdrawn themselves from being any part of my flock Answ They are established in the truth and publick prayer and preaching in the spirit of God they never denied and they are not by right any part of thy charge for since thy coming among them they have denied thy practice and therefore they are not withdrawn from thee for they never belonged unto thee and if it should be granted that some of them were part of thy charge and of thy flock then hast not thou been a carelesse shepherd to let thy flock goe astray and be lost how canst thou say if it be so that thou hast kept all thy flock together which is the care of a good shepherd Thou saist to attempt the best means and to use the most likely wayes and method for their recovery seems not onely truly charitable but highly just and equitable Answ Thy attempts and means are far unlikely to recover them if they was in errour for thou attempts to be delivered from
them and destroy them and so thy words are wind and confusion first crying out for help to be deâ—iveâ—ed from them then saying thou attempts the best means to recover them but that which a man seeks to be delivered from he â—oâ—h not attempt to recover and regain and so thy justice charity and equity stands in the ground of enmity Thou saist considering therefore how industriâ—â—â— the little Foxes are and how studiously diligent seducers all along hath been by continual prating in their canting language and by publishing unintelligible fancies out of a deep sense of that dangerous and ruinous course many sayest thou not only in my own parish but throughout the whole Nation are seduced into have I adventured the publication of this small Treatise as an antidote through Gods blessing against that corroding and spreading Gangreen of heretical and diabolical delusion Answ An industrious Christian is commendable and to be diligent in that which is good is worthy of encouragement and herein we labour in the work of the Gospel and we speak in an intelligible language to that of God in all and here thou hast uttered confusion again first saying they are deluded and then saying the language is unintelligible and so it is plain that thou understands not our principle for nothing can be understood but by true intelligence and though thou understand it not but in thy ignorance calls it delusion yet we know that it is the truth of God and spreads abroad ro the glory of God and the comfort of many souls and by it the serpents poison is expelled out the heart but thy antidote is unwholesom and unsavoury and where it is received it will infect with deadly poison Thou sayest what remains shall be only to implore an effectual blessing from heaven upon these weak endeavours of mine that they may promote piety prevent apostasie raise thâ—se that are fallen confirm those that stand upright in the wayes of God and contribute somewhat or other to the furtherance of souls in their progresse towards the new Jerusalem Answ God blesseth his own seed and it is blessed for ever but the breath of his mouth blasts thy endeavours for thy voice is in the apostasiâ— and 〈◊〉 thou labours to prevent people for coming out of the apoâ—â—aâ—â—â— and to keep them in the fall where none can stand upright in the wayes of God and thy endeavours are weak indeed to promote piety but strong in subtilty to pervert the right way of God if it was possible and so thou art not a furtherer of souls towards the new Jerusalem but keeps them 〈◊〉 Jerusalem below where they are in bondage Thou hast divided thy Books into fourteen Chapters which would enlarge a volume to answer every particular matter for thou hast drawn such long discourses touching one and the same thing that by answering one part may fully answer the whole The first part of thy Book is generally composed Philosophically and though thou hast stated their sayings hiddenly and so would passe them for thy own yet I well know their language and with the light of Christ can see a thief at midnight In the first Chapter thou states two things more generally self-reflection and divine revelation and thou sayest mans rational reflection upon himself if faithfully improved would with convincing evidence secure him both against atheism and irreligion Answ This is a false assertion for as people lies in the fall they neither know God nor believe in him and however they may improve any rational faculty yet they cannot thereby work their own security for it is not possible that man should secure himself by any thing of himself or that he should know God and believe in him from such a principle for it is self that sinneth and that which sinneth doth never reflect upon a man for sin but all such reflections are by the principle of God in which there is no sin and thereby man comes to see himseâ—f in the fall and if that principle be faithfully improved it will redeem out of atheisme and irreligion and bring to Christ Jesus the sure foundation of the pure religion Thou sayest that self-reflection may easily discover that there is a God Answ This is false again for none knows the Father but the Son and he to whom the Son reveals him and thou not knowing by what way God discovers himself thou art not fit either to speak or write of him Thou sayest if the soul be immaterial it cannot be generated or made by any material production it remains sayest thou it must have its being immediately raised out of nothing Answ No supposition is a good ground for a conclusion and thou first sayest if the soul be immaterial by which supposition it is manifest that thou hast no certain knowledge what the soul is and yet thou draws a conclusion saying it must have its being immediately raised out of nothing so that by what thou hast declared concerning the discovery of God and the production of the soul it is evident that thou art a stranger to the things of God for God is the chiefest good and the onely fountain from whence all good things are produced and man became a living soul by the breath of his life not immediately raised out of nothing but breathed from the nature of life and immortality and this might fully answer all thy Book Thou saist the chief matter is Gods omnipotencie and immensity or omnipresence and bids consider these jointly so they are a sollid foundation saist thou for that religious worship that is due to God Answ Neither thy imaginations nor stoln words will make a sollid foundation for that religious worship that is due to God but his own foundation is sure and the true worshippers are built upon it and his almighty power and presence is with them and they bow before him Thou saist if we do again consider the manner of discoveries of these two forementioned attributes viz. that it is by the very light of nature and by the improvement of right reason and understanding that common benefit that Christ enlightens every man that comes into the world and thou margins the name Quakers and saith this may let that fond Generation of people know who are so highly enamoored with and do so superficially dote upon their so much adorned and adored notion of a light within that there is other work that God hath designed that inward light for them by its native strength lustre and radiancie infallibly to guide us if faithfully followed as they no lesse saist thou prophanely then ignorantly do imagine to the place of bliss and happinesse Answ Thou art proved to want the knowledge of God and his attributes and so art improving thy own wisdome against him and by the discovery thou makes of the light of Christ that enlightens every one that comes into the world and it doth appear that thou remains in darknesse and thou should have distinguished if thou could
actual worship unto God Answ The mixture is in the fall but who are regenerated and born again they live in the spirit and knows both time and place to render actual worship unto God in the order of his spirit and yet are not determined to time or place by limittation Thou saist if the God of this world would have all Professours enjoy a total immunity from the Law of God and all manner of licentiousnesse allowed without check of conscience let him then make an every day Sabbath Answ Christ is Lord of the Sabbath and Christians enjoyes an every day Sabbath in Christ of whom the Jewes Sabbath was a figure and they are in his righteousnesse and doth not allow any licentiousnesse for their rest is holy and they lie down in it without check of conscience Thou saist publick worship speaks a joint concurrence of several worshippers for the performance of the same action of religious worship so that the very light of nature saist thou gives it clear suffrage for the necessity of convenient places of meeting for the performance of the publick worship and service of God Answ Christians do jointly concur in the spirit in which they have unity and that in the same action of religious worship but Apostates cannot do so and though they meet together in one place yet not having unity in the spirit they cannot jointly concurre in the woiship of God and so the place and worship which thou calls publick being set up in the apostasie and not after Christ the Christians cannot own them for light and darknesse hath no communion together Thou saist is not this to cry up inward light and yet plainly to live in darknesse Answ This is to cry up inward light and to live in it and therefore it is that we deny all false worships which is set up and practised in the darknesse Thou saist I have neither faith to believe nor any reason to see that there is any Separated I adde and Consecrated places for divine worship any such legal or ceremonial kind of holinesse which renders duties performed there more acceptable unto God then if performed by the same persons and in the like manner in any other places Answ Thou hast all this while been pleading for that separated place to be the Church and hast been holding forth a special presence of God in that worship which is there performed and now thou saith that duties performed there are no more acceptable unto God then if performed in any other places and if thou have neither faith to believe it nor reason to see it as thou saist then thou might have spared thy pains in writing thy Book for thy chief aim is to bring people to conform to the worship there observed as the worship of God in his Church which if duties be no more acceptable unto God which is there performed then if performed in any other place then such as withdrawes from it may perform duties as acceptable unto God in other places according to thy own faith and reason so it is not a true Church nor a true worship for the worship and duties performed in the true Church which is in God are only accepted of God and in no other place or places whatsoever and here thou hast pulled down thy own building with thy own hands Thou saist here then arises that ample provision that Christ hath made for his special presence in the places of religious worship viz. from the Communion of Saints meeting in convenient separated places for publick worship and from the promise annexed thereto and not from any peculiar holinesse in those places where they thus meet to worship God Answ The Communion of Saints is in the light of Christ and so saith John If we walk in the light as he is in the light then have we fellowship one with another and this is not the state of Adam in the fall neither can his Sonnes and Daughters perform a religious worship unto God and so no Church either by Communion of Saints or the place it self and therefore such worshippers have not the promise annexed In the fifth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the special presence of God in publick worship by his Train or Retinue of Angels to which I answer generally Answ That God is present in his publick worship which is performed in his spirit was never yet denied by us but thou hast not proved thy worship to be the worship of God and therefore we say that Gods presence is not in it to the comfort of the worshipper and this may answer all thy Jumblings about the Angels for thou art not come to the Angelical Ministration In the sixth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the practical inferences drawn from the presence of angels in the places of publick worship Answ When he bringeth forth his only-begotten Son into the world he saith and let all the angels of God worship him and this is a full answer to this whole Chapter In the seventh Chapter thou seems to hold forth Gods presence in publick worship by his word with some other particulars relating to that matter which I might mention and answer if I did intend largenesse but finding the whole matter of thy Book to lye chiefly as to Church worship ministry and practice as they generally now stand I shall not make needlesse repetitions by answering the same thing over and over yet this I say unto this Chapter that Gods presence by his word is in his worship and all that worship him aright he teaches them by his word but that thy preaching is the word of God or that the word of God is in thy preaching or his presence by his word in that publick worship through they preaching that thou hast not any where proved and therefore it falls of it self In the eighth Chapter thou seems to hold forth practical inferences that teachers of the word must not corrupt the word of God and that it must be owned as Gods word and received and mingled with faith and practised in obedience Answ I answer generally that they who are born of the word which is immortal they do not corrupt it but are true and faithfull ministers of it and many have received it as it is indeed the word of God and they mingle it with faith and practises it in obedience and such are doers of the word and are blessed but thy tongue must learn silence and thou must know a new birth and a new tongue before thou can truly minister the word of God In the ninth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the presence of God in his worship by his ministers and that the truths of God must be heard though from ungodly preachers and that ministers are Gods Embassadours and stewards of the mysteries of God and that God and man works together in the conversion of souls and production of saving faith Ans Thou said even now that teachers of the word must not corrupt the
word then how can an ungodly man preach it and not corrupt it and this matter being reduced out of thy general terms and stated particularly into such as it doth properly belong then we can truly say that Gods presence is in his worship by his ministers and that they are his Embassadours and Stewards of his mysteries but we dare not say that so it is with ungodly men or that the ministry of ungodly men doth work to the conversion of souls or production of saving faith Some few particulars of this Chapter I shall answer Thou sayest it is so certain a truth that if the minister be bad yet if he preach the pure word of God we must receive the word because we are not so much to regard the man preaching as the word preached Answ No lye is of the truth for it is as possible that the East and West should joyn together as for a bad man or an ungodly man to preach the pure word of God for God doth not make use of such men to be his Embassadours or Stewards neither can such work together with God in any service for him because it is inconsistent with the pure nature of God to be a co-worker with an ungodly man for an ungodly man is against God and God is against all his ungodlinesse and these cannot possibly work together in man being that they are contrary in nature one to the other and yet thou fears not to go about to prove this ungodly assertion from the ministry of Iudas and saith that of all of them Christ said he that receiveth you receiveth me and yet one of them was Iudas Iscariot who also betrayed him Then thou sayest we may plainly see by Christs own words we may receive Christ by the ministry of Judas a traytor nay sayest thou I might say a Devil Answ Thou art gotten into high prophanenesse for when Iudas was sent forth with the rest he had part in the ministry but when treacherous thoughts did rise in him and that the Devil stirred him up to act his treachery he was never a minister of Christ after that and it may be read in the first of Acts where the Disciples prayed and said shew which of these two thou hast chosen that he may take part of this minisâ—â—y and Apostleship from which Iudas by transgression fell mark it and consider thy assertion Thou saist that every Saint should have their garments died white in the bloud of the Lamb much more Christs Stewards they should be cloathed with the white robes of sincerity to act unfeignedly for God Answ These are only words as if one proud man should bid another be humble or one drunkard bid another be sober and tell them it should be so but view thy self and the rest which thou looks upon to be stewards and see if thou can find it so indeed and if not then you are not as you should be by thy own confession and if Christs Stewards should have their garments so died then surely no bad man or ungodly man can stand in that office neither is it possible that any such should act unfeignedly for God but who are his Stewards indeed through the sanctification of the Spirit they are cloathed with his righteousnesse and are approved in his sight In the tenth Chapter thou seems to hold forth practical deductions from Gods presence with his ministers and saith God is affronted by any indignities that are offered to his ministers and how can any have so impudent a face sayest thou as to pretend they are sent of God who makes railing and reviling of others to be their work Answ This is the work which thou art found to be in who calls the ministration of the Spirit canting language and Christs Ministers Foxes and Hereticks which surely are great indignities and in the highest manner of railing and reviling by which thy practical deduction is found to be out of Gods presence and railing and reviling of others were never our work though we do give righteous judgement against the Seed of the evil doer In the eleventh Chapter thou seems to hold forth Gods presence in his worship by the holy spirit and saist the word and the spirit goes together and thou saist thou shall begin with the Evangelical Prophet Isaiah As for me this is my Covenant with them saith the Lord my spirit which is upon thee and my words which I have put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy Seed nor out of the mouth of thy Seeds Seed saith the Lord from henceforth and for ever Answ This was the word of the Lord unto the Prophet and he had the spirit in the word my spirit which is upon thee mark here was the spirit upon him and the word spake in the spirit and the word put words into his mouth mark again and the word said my words shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy Seed mark again the word was in the Seed and was not to depart out of the mouth of the Seed nor out of the mouth of the Seeds Seed from henceforth and for ever saith the Lord and this is the word that lives and abides for ever and it is in the mouth of the Seed and from the Seed are the words of the word spoken and there is the true ministry if thou hast an ear to hear and here is the word and the spirit joined together which is the word of the Gospel that we preach Thou saist all Gods children shall be clearly taught by the spirit of God Answ Then is man laid wholly aside in that work and why art thou so offended at silent meetings when thou saist all Gods children shall be clearly taught by his spirit and if clearly then it doth not admit of any conjunction in its teaching Thou saist mans preaching may fill the head full of notions but the spirits teacbings must fill the heart with real motions of grace and goodnesse towards God Answ Then let all flesh be silent that notions may die and wither and that the heart may come to be exercised towards God in his spirit and then people will not be alwaies learning as now they are amongst notions but will come to the knowledge of the truth in the spirit and so come to the joy of Gods salvation Thou saist take a Christian without faith and you unchristian him Answ Every true Christian lives in the faith and therefore cannot be taken without it and so cannot be unchristianed as being without it In the twelfth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the spirits teaching five wayes 1. by removing impediments 2. by suggesting Gospel truths to the soul 3. by enlightening the mind 4. by strengthning the soul 5. by raising truths Ans Thou art quite beside the matter for these particulars do not so belong to the spirits teaching as to its working only the third particular is as to its
manifestation for to remove suggest strengthen and raise is a work of the spirit but the teachings of the spirit is in checking reproving and convincing and as the obedience is yielded to it so it teaches to deny the evil which it doth convince of and reprove for and teaches to live in that which is good that comes from God and so it teaches to deny ungodlinesse and teaches to live soberly mark it well Thou saist concerning the enlightning of the mind that all the lights in the world is never able to make us see divine truths savingly till we are enlightned of the Lord. Answ Then why art thou contending against the light of the Lord seeing thou saist that none can see divine truth savingly till they be enlightned by him would thou keep people from that which will let them see divine truths but divine truths may be seen in the light and yet not savingly for salvation is not in the sight of truth but in the union with it for there may be much seen to be truth and yet the error not forsaken Thou saist none are truely enlightned but those that are in Christ Answ The light of Christ doth enlighten every one that comes into the world and yet every one that comes into the world is not in Christ but as the light which is manifest from Christ is obeyed so it worketh death upon the old man and raise up life and immortality and regenerates man into the nature of it where he becomes a new creature in Christ and is light in the Lord. Thou sayest There is no true light that leads to salvation but what comes from Christ the Son of righteousnesse Answ Then to preach that light is neither canting nor delusion as thou had termed it for it is the light which comes from Christ the Sun of righteousnesse which we preach and we know that there is not another name given under heaven by which any can be saved Thou sayest let others therefore sit down and embrace that so much mired darling of an inward natural yet saving light in all we know saist thou that it is but a changeling and not the genuine off-spring of the spirit Answ Thou hast said no light for salvation but from Christ and now saith the light within is a changeling and this is not agreeable with the Apostles doctrine who said the light that shines in our hearts gives us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus and thou cryes inward natural yet saving light in all and that it is but a changeling but we say the inward natural as it is of man is not saving to any but the inward spiritual light as it comes from the nature of Christ is saving to all that believe in it but the condemnation of such as believe not and therefore we say that the light of Christ within is not a changeling but the Alpha and Omega yesterday and to day and the same for ever In the thirteenth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the qualification of the spirits teachings by teaching fully pleasantly seasonably certainly and profitably and that it brings in no new lights objective and thou saist what makes souls to quit their comforts in this life their friends their estates their liberties yea their lives themselves rather then part with those truths the spirit hath taught them Answ Why this is the reason that makes them do all those things because they love Christ more then all and prizes the truth which he hath taught them more then all the world but that thou art of the number of those that are so given up to God and loves his truth doth not any way appear for thou enjoyes thy friends thy estate and liberty and life thou hast fulnesse and art at ease thou art not come to travel in hunger and cold and perils to make known the glad tydings of the Gospel thou art not in bonds and prisons for the truth of God and the testimony of a good conscience these things comes not near unto thee but thou art reviling the innocent who have received the teachings of Gods spirit and loves the truth above all the world or the enjoyments of it for which cause we suffer as to our libertie and estates and our lives are in jeopardy yet in the comfort of truth we have our rejoycing though thou adde afflictions to our sufferings Thou saist we have no foundation for such gradual teachings as to expect the spirit should teach more truths afterwards then are written in the word of God Answ The spirit of God is not limitted as to what may or may not be in mans expectation for God manifests the truth by his spirit according to his own pleasure and in his own time and the spirit opens the Scripture in fulfilling of them and also manifests the mind of God in what he will further reveal and make known Thou saist though the spirit teaches in the word that there can be no absolute perfection in this life telling us in the words of S. John that if we say we have no sin c. and yet saist thou the spirit teaches the soul gradually to breathe after perfection Answ The word and the spirit is perfect and all born of the spirit are perfect and the words of John in that Scripture doth not relate to the birth born of God for when he comes to speak of that birth he saith whosoever is born of God sinneth not c. and that which sinneth not is perfect and what good doth thy ministry if thou do not bring people to that which is perfect or where would thou have people to be perfect if they die imperfect surely thy message is sad to that which breathes after perfection and thou hast not received the gift from Christ which is for perfecting of the Saints and so thou art teaching another doctrine then the true Ministers teaches who labours that they may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus I now come to thy last Chapter wherein thou seems to hold forth practical deduction from Gods presence by his spirit and thou saist coming unto God in a way that God never owned nor prescribed is a direct turning away from him Answ Christ is the way unto the Father and there is none can come unto him by any other and they that walk in this way are preserved 〈◊〉 all by paths but they that walks in their own way they turn directly from God and if thou truly try thy self thou may find it so to be with thee Thou saist Gods Spirit teaches none to continue in the practice of known sins he doth not allow them to sin and then teach them that is to be spiritual to deem nothing sin that we possibly can commit Answ The Spirit of God teaches to deny all sin and all that obeys the Spirit they come to the Crosse which crucifies to the death the sinning nature and so brings into righteousnesse and