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A36143 A Disputation proving that it is not convenient to grant unto ministers secular jurisdiction, and to make them lords & statesmen in Parliament 1679 (1679) Wing D1677; ESTC R15032 30,674 38

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offenders and offences and execute revenging wrath upon evil doers And by this means there was much quiet and good living and order in the Realm This course is now antiquated and degenerated into another course not so profitable and convenient for good order and publick quiet and that is the Circuit of Judges itinerant twice each year through the Realm keeping their Assizes at one place only and making all the County to come thither and having a Judges Sermon Preached at the entrance of the Assizes Though the Church and Ministry will stand if the Pastors do their duty yet if Christian Magistrates do not their duty in their place and calling they do so far unchristianize themselves and if they protect the evil and punish the good or think that 〈◊〉 pretence of Liberty of Conscience men may be allowed to blaspheme God to teach Atheism Infidelity and Soul-destroying doctrines and ac● the part of Corah and his complices against the faithful Ministers of Christ God will make them know one day that that was not the end for which he appointed them Magistrates and that they be his Ministers and are therefore called Gods and ought not to bear the Sword in vain and to stand by and see the Church wasted persecuted and torn in pieces by violence heresies schisms profaneness and wickednesses and they be like Gallio unconcerned and care for no such things And the truth is it is no ●●ttle that the due execution of the Magistrates office doth conduce to the success of the Gospel and the promoting of the Ministry and of the Word and Work of God upon mens Souls And therefore though I dissent from the worthy Davenant in this That he would have Pastors to be Magistrates and I would have Pastors to be but meer Pastors and the Off●ce of the Magistrates to be an Office by it self and bestrusted with 〈◊〉 persons who are no Pastors and who may intend it and make 〈◊〉 their work yet thus far I agree that it is most convenient and godly that throughout all the Churches there be in every place an heir of restraint a revenger to execute wrath upon them that do evil and to protect the good that these two standing Ordinances of Jesus Christ and of God the Father by him may stand and consist together and walk hand in hand and mutually support and conserve each other for the Glory of God and the good of Church and Common-wealth And this is no Vtopia or Platonick Idea or form of a Common-wealth which is but a fiction or imagination no where to be found in this World But it is obvious and plain to all and needs not so much any new institution as a restauration of ancient practice and a faithful execution of what all sides agree in consistent with the munici●al laws and sa●ctions of this Kingdom 40. If any shall think I have committed inexpediency in writing against inexpediency and have medled with a point that will not abide to be medled with when I am convinced of it I will acknowledg my error Till then I will stand upon mine own defence and plead not guilty Almost imprudent is prudent If any t●x me of pragmaticalness I answer it is pragmaticalness that I write against and I cannot cure the wound unless I search it to the bottom and apply to it suitable Plaisters Pragmatical Divines cannot content themselves to be Divines in common with their Brethren but they will play the Bishops in anothers Diocess and think it well becomes them to immerse themselves in State-affairs If it shall be said that hereby I cast aspersion upon the Government of the Nation and censure the judgment and esteem of many generations of Princes Parliaments Wise-men Divines and Counsellors I answer That if it be lawful for a Davenant to assert in Schools and publish to the world an erroneous position Civilis jurisdictio jure conceditur ecclesiasticis it cannot be thought unlawful by equal judges for another though not to be named with Davenant to assert the contrary and shew the unsoundness of his opinion though with all just reverence to so worthy a man And in doing this I do but expound the true meaning and extent of the fifth Commandment and assert the rights of the Church universal and the consentient judgment of the best and soundest Divines and the due bounds of Magistracy and Ministry and reduce things to primitive order and simplicity according to the pattern of Christ and his Apostles and the first and purest times of the Church FINIS
are not much inferiour to those ancient ones both Greek and Latin and even to those we have mention of in the New Testament namely the seven Churches of Asia those of Galatia and Judea that at Corinth and others 8. Admit it were true which questionless is not I should rather think that the way to reduce an unreformed Church and people from heresie and unholiness to foundness in the faith and holiness is for Pastors to content themselves with the work of Pastors and give themselves wholly to it and suffer no lets Will the Sword convert souls or awe mens consciences would it likely do more good if a Minister should come into the Pulpit with a Sword in one hand and a Bible in the other The Sword is not appointed of God for the conversion of Souls the office of the Magistrate is to make way for the work and office of the Minister It is the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God which must cut in pieces mens lusts and breed in them sound faith holiness and reformation and not the sword of the Magistrate Let the Magistrate do or not do his duty let him be Pagan or Persecutor and let the people be more loofe and unreformed than they are let but Pastors and Ministers do their duty well and we shall soon see that Gods Word and Discipline is of the same force now that ever it hath been otherwise there is a change in God and his promise fails and Satan is stronger now than he hath been and Christ and the Holy Ghost are much weaker Read and consider well these Scriptures Mat. 28.18 19 20. 1 Pet. 3.13 Mich. 2.7 Isa 45.19 Isa 49 4 5. 1 Cor. 15.58 Psal 84.11 2 Cor. 2.15 16. 2 Cor. 4.1 2. 2 Cor. 10.4 5 6. to name no more and let but Ministers be wise and faithful and try if it be not the best and speediest way to reform what is amiss in the Church contenting themselves with no more but their own office and leaving all force and secular authority to the Magistrate 9. If we be the same that the ancient Pastors were be sure God and Gods Word will be the same we cannot do Gods part nor the Magistrates part nor the peoples part we can only do our own part which we may do if we will do our own part and be sure God will be with us and do his What hinders but Pastors may be as wise and holy as they have been of old If we be not it is our own fault The more corrupt the times are the more need Pastors have to bestir themselves and to double their diligence and lay out themselves more vigorously to be more Exemplary to abound in the work of God to be mortified to lose no time to suffer no let To make them Magistrates were to let them and take away much of their time and rather hinder and distract than further them If the Pastors office he as much as they can wisely and faithfully do would it further them in their work to have another effice and work added to them Ministers of the Gospel are not so fit as others to be worldly coercive Judges and Secular Magistrates For their office is purely Pastoral and is to have no terrour in but the terrour of Gods Word and spiritual denunciations that the people may have no temptations to withdraw their love and esteem from their Pastors A Thief at the Bar had rather have a Minister than the Judg to reprove him though both should pronounce the same truth and hit upon the same words and have equal wisdom and integrity For properly Magistrates are for outward terrour to evil doers and for outward desence and protection to them that do well Rom. 1● 3 1 Pet. 2.14 But Ministers are to be gentle to souls even as a nurse cherisheth her children and to exhort and comfort and charge every one as a father doth his children 1 Thes 2.7 11. But if parents and nurses and tender mothers should rule their children by the sword too that would not add to their office nor further their work 10. Arg. 3. If it be so as Davenant says that unless Ministers be armed with Secular Jurisdiction their office and authority in the Church and the Lords Word and Discipline as administred by them will be despised and trod upon then necessarily all Ministers should be mad Magistrates and Princes are too blame if they do not put the sword into all their hands and make every Minister throughout the Nation a Justice of Peace or a Sheriff or a Judg by giving him power to imprison and lay fines and penalties upon offenders and to use coercive means And then the Scriptures themselves even the wisdom of God will be found faulty if he have ordained and appointed no such thing in all the Bible as I no where find that he hath done And by the same reason Magistrates may say they also must be Ministers and there will be a confusion of offices and the bounds and banks of order in Church and Commonwealth will be thrown down and if order be not oblerved good government cannot be For good government is nothing but the observance of right order when Magistrates do the duty of Magistrates and meddle with no more but what comes within the compass of their office that is right order and it breeds peace 1 Cor. 14.33 40. And when Ministers and Pastors do their duty and what properly pertains to their office medling with no more this also is right order and the way of true and good government in the Church and produceth peace But if you leave this way and order you err And where your error may stop and what mischiefs and inconveniences it may produce who is able to declare For there is no safety but by keeping in Gods way and close walking by his rules Vno absurdo dato seq●untur mille is as true in Practicals as in Doctrinals 11. A 4. Either Christian faithful Magistrates are a help and defence to Gods Church and to Ministers in their calling and office or they are not If they are then methinks if the Church and Ministers did well when they wanted such helps they should rather do better at least they should do as well or not be much worse when they have such helps But to say they cannot do at all or that Ministers and their Discipline and Ministration barely without Secular Jurisdiction added to them will be of no use but rather a scorn and mockery under Christian Magistrates is stark shame and reproach to all such Ministers and they should rather be cast out of the Church as intolerable and as dung and dead unsavoury salt than be made Magistrates What should they do Magistrates that are not able by all they can do to preserve themselves from sordid ignominy and contempt or if not this it is an intolerable shame to all excepting Ministers both Magistrates and people that they should be so
all that while taken up in State-matters Civil and Secular affairs If the other Arguments be good against granting any temporal authority and jurisdiction at all to Pastors and Cl●rgy men and the Reasons for it be exceeding weak and but shews and shadows of Reason then it must needs be much more inconvenient to heap secular honours dignities greatness preeminence and authority upon Clergy-men and betrust them with the highest jurisdiction by making them Lords in Par●iament 20. They that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare and into many foolish and hurtful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition 1 Tim. 6.9 It holds good most strongly of those that seek both worldly wealth and outward height grandure and state that would be great and sit in the highest Seat and be accounted Lords and Princes and have dominion over the lives the liberties the estates yea and souls of men and would have wealth and riches to support their grandure and preferment It is this which hath let many evils into the Church and given occasion to the Roman-Bishop to lift up himself above all other Bishops yea above Kings and Emperors themselves and to assume the title of Universal Bishop and Christs Vicar-general upon earth and to usurp authority dominion and supremacy above all that is called God 2 Thess 2.4 Constantine the Christian Emperor thought he did the Church a kindness in heaping Civil honours upon Clergy men and putting them into places of state and preferment but in truth he did them and the Church no kindness It had been well for the Church of God that Bishops and Clergy-men had continued meer Bishops and Clergy-men without any worldly honours preferments in Parliament outward greatness and jurisdiction 21. Nor is there any hope that the Church of God should enjoy true rest and be setled in happy and lasting concord and flourish as it should in holiness and Peace till its Bishops and Pastors be reduced to the Primitive and Apostolick pattern One would think the words of our Saviour were plain enough in this case when there was a strife among the Twelve Apostles which should be greatest our Saviour quickly ends the controversie by telling them The Princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them and they that are great exercise authority upon them But it shall not be so among you but whosoever will be great and chief among you let him be l●west and servant of all Mat. 20.25 26 27. Luk 22.25 26. It shall not be so among you and consequently it shall not be so among your successours But so it hath been and so it is to this day God grant it may be so no longer There is a striving which shall be high and great striving for worldly honours preferment and votes and authority in Parliament There is not a striving who shall be most humble and self-denying and do the work of God faithfully There is a striving who shall be like the Pope rather than Jesus Christ who shall have worldly lordship wealth and preferment and exercise domination not who shall be most good and holy most faithful and diligent in the work of the Ministry 22. Ambition and domination is not good in any but it is worst and most odious in Bishops and Clergy-men By seeking themselves and their own honour rather than the honour of God they lose themselves and do but prepare themselves for a fall Is it not a most sad thing to read in Church-history the contentions and strivings of Bishops and Patriarchs and Clergy-men about names and places and dignities and worldly greatness and authority and all the doleful evils which Clergy-domination and worldly-Prelacy hath produced And to see Christian Emperors Kings Princes States and Parliaments to enslave themselves to a dominating Clergy This is it which makes wise and good men to think it were much better to let Bishops and Clergy-men be meer and simple Bishops and Clergy-men and no more and for the Magistrate to keep the Sword in his own hands For if once you take up this for a principle that the example of Christ and of his Apostles and of the Pastors and Bishops of the Churches for the first Three hundred years is not a sufficient pattern yea and the very best pattern for all Christian Pastors and Churches to conform to if once you leave this you depart from the simplicity that is in Christ 2 Cor. 11.3 It is not possible to keep out pride contention and domination these will be and they will prove the scab yea the plague of the Church and danger to eat out its vitals or so weaken and consume it that it will want much of its strength and beauty 23. Sound prudence is always to go by a sure and stedfast Rule Christs pattern the way and practice of the Apostles and first and most pure Churches is a sure rule to go by Keep to this and we are safe God will not find fault with us for holding us to his Rules and seeking to be no more wise no more holy no more great and honourable and good than his Rule and Standard requires But if you alter your rule and once think and say the Clergy must have some more honour and jurisdiction than so you let in confusion contention domination and a troop of evils and mischiefs not to be told As in the case of Ceremonies and namely that of the Cross in Baptism if it be prudent and advisable to add unto Gods institution of Baptism a dedicating symbolical sign and say that Baptism without it is not best as Christ ordained it you may by the same reason add Cream and Salt and Spittle and a multitude of vain and foolish things no just bounds can be set 24. And therefore Bishops Pastors and Clergy-men in Parliament should make their humble address to the King the Nobility and Commons in Parliament to this effect Our office is to be Bishops and Shepherds of Souls to give our selves continually to Prayer and to the ministry of the Word and to take heed to our selves and to all the flock over which the Holy-Ghost hath made us overseers Had we more time than we have had we more wisdom and goodness in our Souls could every one of us do the work of ten of the best and ablest and most godly Bishops and Pastors that ever the Church of God had the Souls in England and Wales would find us all work enough We may not leave our work and calling unto which we are separated without injuring you and us and the souls of our people and procuring far more damage to all sides than the benefit can countervail These honours that you put upon us these places of dignity and jurisdiction that you put us in are a snare and a burden to us they are no priviledg but a let To strive for them were to strive to bring Fire and Gun-powder together All the while we be here we tread as upon Coals of Fire We are as
Gods will that he who is best be best esteemed and that the less wise do learn of the more wise that the younger submit themselves unto the elder yea all of you be subject one to another and be clothed with humility 1 Pet. 5.5 Ministers cannot always be executing their Office as Praying Preaching Baptizing c. And there may be some parts and branches of the Office which they may never be called to exercise as Ordination authoritative Excommunication and Absolution And no authority is given but for use and edification and where there is no use of it or where it cannot be used without making things worse and doing more hurt than good it is to be forborn But it is fit that Ministers be Ministers and Pastors and Bishops be Pastors and Bishops and be invested and intrusted with compleat Pastoral and Episcopal power and that they do use and exercise every branch and part of their office and authority when and so often as sanctified Conscience and sound prudence and discretion shall say it is convenient and they cannot forbear to do it without manifest damage and inconvenience as it is convenient a Captain have his Sword though he may not be put to use it in fight against any And it is fit that a Schoolmaster have power to use his Ferula and moderately correct untoward and misruly Scholars though possibly he may have none such and so never be put to use the Rod. 29. This being so I must needs grant that if it be convenient and advisable that the whole tribe of Ministers who be of the order of Presbyters be accounted Lord-Bishops Lord-Presbyters Lord-Pastors and Lord-Preachers and have equal right to be Lords and Statesmen in Parliament and supream Judges in all causes and questions both Political and Ecclesiastical which shall come before that honourable Assembly then I yield the cause my position is erroneous and I do ill to say it is inconvenient that Clergy-men be Lords and Statesmen in Parliament But if it be inconvenient and against sound prudence to honour or rather burden the whole Tribe of Ministers and right-ordained Pastors and Presbyters with these honours preferments greatness and authority then I see not but my position will hold sound and good for if all appearance of evil is to be avoided then all appearance of partiality is to be avoided and of that partiality which hath conjoined with it many snares and which a wise man is bound to avoid as distractions precipices and burdens I have no envious partiality against Arch-bishops and Bishops I am neither against the name nor the office and thing imported by the name Every Pastor unto whom God doth give more than ordinary gifts and graces is in my judgment a real Archbishop in Gods Church jure Divino a chief Pastor and eminent Prelate in Gods Church above his fellows of which rank I do estimate the famous Vsher Augustine Athanasius Calvin Zanchy Bradford Davenant Cranmer D●d Bains Hildersham Preston Sibbs Gataker Joseph Hall Babington Joseph Allaine and many more both ancient and modern Divines all burning and shining lights in Gods Church more eminent than vulgar Divines I think my self not worthy to carry their Books after them I think they better deserve the Title of Lord than many a temporal carnal Lord that is honoured with that name The fifth Commandment bindeth me to honour my Father and my Mother and my Catechism teacheth me that by Father and Mother is to be understand all superiors in office age and gifts Good Obadiah says to Elijah Art thou that my Lord Elijah 1 Kings 18.8 The truth is our ordinary word Master or Sir which we give to almost all importeth the same with the title Lord it being in Greek Kurios and Kurie in Latin Dominus and Domine save that custom which is the great arbiter of Speech doth appropriate this title Lord to the temporal nobility If we must give honour to whom honour is due and honour all whom God doth honour or else we are disobedient to Gods word and unholy then both Clergy-men and Lay-men Magistrates Pastors Parents and private Christians are to be honoured with decent and seemly honour without denying them what all wise and peaceable Christians account to be their due and to be safe and decent to be given to them or giving them more out of flattery and baseness having mens persons in admiration because of advantage See Job 32.22 Jude 16. 30. But now it is not the custom with us nor with the Churches of Christ and Christian people and custom in this case creates a Law 1 Cor. 11.16 to give the Title Lord to the Parish-bishops and Presbyters though never so eminent and it is but meet that according to the use of all Nations and the Scripture it self a difference be made between the temporal Nobility and the Clergy And why it should be given to a Popish Bishop meerly because a Bishop such as Bonner Gardiner and many of the Popes and Cardinals who have been wretched men or to a Ridley a Hooper a Davenant rather than to a Bradford a Philpot a Dod a Joseph Alleine I know not If the honour be due to the Office then all Ministers must be counted Lord-bishops and Lord-pastors I am clear in that Act. 20.28 Phil. 1.1 This I know will not please our Lord Arch-Bishops and Bishops and those whose zeal upholds them All that I contend for is that all that be equal in office be equal in honour and no one partially preferred no one assume to himself carnal state and superiority over his Brethren Jam. 3.5 Behold how great a matter a little fire kindleth This advancing of equals above their equals and brethren above their brethren and pastors above pastors in Gods Church is not good 31. I do not impugn bare names and titles but my aim is to impugn factious partiality and pride in Clergy-men occasioned by the over-indulgence of Princes and supream Magistrates It is simplicity humility and sincerity in Bishops which I contend for Either the Arch-bishops and Bishops must come down and abate of their honour their lordliness their principalities and worldly state and be upon even ground with the rest of their Brethren who have as good insides as they and are as real Bishops and Overseers of souls as they and have equal office authority and commission with them Matt. 28.19 20. Joh. 20.23 and will pass for as much at death and judgment as they or else the rest of their Brethren who be equal in office and merits to them must be heightned and advanced and made to be upon even ground with them This latter is not advisable nor will be granted it is not fit it should The other is both feisiable and convenient It will make our Arch-bishops and Bishops to be no worse men nor worse Arch bishops and Bishops if they be but meer and simple Bishops of Souls and meddle no more in State-matters and secular affairs than needs they