matters will never infer a surrender of conscience to him for certainly that must relate to what goeth before of the outward Government and Policy of the Church Besides none will quarrel the phrase of the Kings authority in all things that are Civil yet that will not infer that he can enact the lawfulness of murther and theft So these expressions must carry with them a tacite exception Yea even without that allowance the phrase may be well justified since it only imports that the Kings enacting any thing in these matters makes them legal which differs much from lawful and saith only that such Orders issued forth by the King are de facto Laws which will not conclude they must be obeyed but only that his authority is to be acknowledged either by obedience if the command be just or by suffering if unjust As for the effects this may produce I am sure they cannot prove worse than these which have followed upon the pretences of the Churches absolute authority and intrinsick Sovereign Power And indeed since there is so much corruption among men nothing that falls into the hands of men can scape the mixtures of abuse at long run But I must add that the passions and pride of many Church-men in all Ages have been such that the decision of the plurality of Church-men seems the model of the World that is fullest of danger Isot. Three things yet remain to be discussed The one is if obedience be due to the Laws when they command things contrary to our consciences For sure you cannot pretend in that case to give a preference to humane Laws beyond conscience which is the voice of GOD. The next is when the Magistrate commands things just of themselves but upon unjust motives and narratives whether my obedience doth not homologate his bad designs And finally where the commands of the Magistrate are manifestly unlawful how far should the Church and Church men oppose and contradict them For a bare non-obedience seems not to be all we are bound to in that case When I am satisfied in these things I will quit this purpose Basil. To engage in a particular discussion of what is now moved by you would draw on more discourse than our present leisure will allow of yet I shall attempt the saying of what may satisfie a clear and unprejudged mind And to the first I shall not fall on any longer enquiry into the nature and obligation of conscience than to tell that conscience is a conviction of our rational faculties that such or such things are sutable to the nature and Will of God Now all Religion is bound upon us on this account that there is such evidence offered for its truth which may and ought to satisfie the strictest Examen of Reason And all certainty is resolved in this that our rational faculties are convinced of the truth of the objects that he before us which conviction when applied to divine matters is called Conscience But there may be great mistakes in this Conviction for either the prejudices that lie on our minds from our senses the prepossessions of Education interest or humors the want of a due application of our faculties to their objects or chiefly the dulness and lesion of our Organs the corruption of our minds through sin and lust occasion many errors so that often without good reason oft contrary to it we take up persuasions to which we stifly adhere and count such convictions evidences of the Will of GOD. I acknowledg when a Man lies under a persuasion of the Will of GOD he ought not to go cross to it for this opens a door to Atheism when that is contradicted of which we are convinced But if this persuasion be false it cannot secure a Man from sinning in following of it For it is a Man 's own fault that he is thus imposed upon since if his rational faculties were duly applied and well purified they should prove unerring touchstones of truth If therefore through vanity wilfulness rashness or any other byass of the mind it be carried to wrong measures a Man is to blame himself and thus his errour ought to aggravate and not lessen his guilt If then a Man's conscience dictate to him the contrary of what GOD commands in that case he is in a visible hazard for his error can never tâ—ke away GOD's Authoâ—ity and so his wrong informed conscience doth not secure him from guilt if he be disobedient On the other hand nothing in Scripture can bind a Man to act a-against the convictions of conscience since we are bound to believe the Scriptures only because of the evidence of their authority to our rational faculties If then our belief of the Scriptures rest on that foundation no part of Scripture can bind us to walk contrary to that evidence for then it should destroy that Principle on which our Obligation to believe it self is founded which is the evidence of reason and so in that case a Man sins whatever he do Neither is this to be accountd strange since that erroneous conscience is from man's own fault And that which some alledg to escape this that in such cases a Man ought to forbear from acting will not serve turn to excuse a Man from sin For in these Precepts which exact a positive obedience such a â—orbearance and surceasing from action is a sin Upon these Evidences then it will follow that if the conviction of our conscience run contrary to the Magistrates commands these convictions are either well grounded or ill If the former then the Magistrates command being contrary to the nature and Will of GOD aâ—e not to be obeyed If ill grounded then that mistaken persuasion cannot secure us from sin no more than in the case of conscience contradicting the Law of GOD for the Laws of the Magistrates in things lawful are the Laws of GOD being the application of his general Laws unto particular instances by one cloathed with authority from him Therefore tho I do not say the Laws of the Magistrate can warrant our counteracting an erroneous conscience yet on the contrary a misinformed conscience will not secure us when we disobey the Magistrates lawful commands And thus I think your first Question is clearly answered End You have a great deal of reason to say so your discourse being so closely rational that I cannot see any escape from any paâ—t of it yet I must add that certainly it is a piece of Christian tenderness which obligeth all in Authority to beware of laying gall-traps and snares in the way of tender consciences And the best way to get an undisputed obedience is that their commands be liable to as few exceptions as is possible and that the good of any such Laws be well ballanced with the hazards of them that so the Communion of the Church in all outwards particularly in the Sacraments may be had on as easie terms as is possible whereby nothing be enacted that may frighten away weakâ—r
of all the People about these matters and truly this Answer adds so little to him that nothing can free him so well of that treachery as the reading of this new Book But to our purpose The Question is first in general If Subjects under a lawful Sovereign when oppressed in their established Religion may by Arms defend themselves and resist the Magistrates Let this be first discussed in general and next it shall be considered how far this will quadrat with our present Case or our late Troubles Isot. I like your method well and that we may follow it consider see pag. 20. of the Answer and Ius populi all over if their can be any thing more evident from the Laws of Nature than that men ought to defend themselves when unjustly assaulted And since the Law of Nature teacheth men not to murder themselves it by the same force binds them to hinder another to do it since he that doth not hinder another from committing a Crime when it is in his power so to do becomes guilty of the crime committed he is then a self-murderer who doth not defend himself from unjust force Besides what is the end of all Societies but mutual Protection Did not the People at first choose Princes for their Protection Or do you imagine it was to satisfie the Pride and Cruelty of individual persons It was then the end of Societies that Justice and Peace might be maintain'd so when this is inverted the Subjects are again to resume their own conditional surrender and to coerce the Magistrate who forgetful of the ends of his Authority doth so corrupt it And since the great design of man should be to serve GOD and to worship him in spirit and in truth this is to be preferred to all things else as being of the greatest Importance If then Magistrates whom S. Peter 1 Pet. 2.13 calls the Ordinances of men or humane Creatures do force there Subjects from the true Worship of GOD they ought to be restrained and the Cause of GOD must be maintained notwithstanding their unjust Laws or cruel Tyranny Bas. You have indeed put such colours on your Opinion that I should be much shaken from mine were not my persuasion well grounded But to examine what you have said you must distinguish well betwixt the Laws of Nature and the Rights or permissions of Nature the first are unalterable Obligations by which all men are bound which can be reversed by no positive Law and transgressed by no Person upon no occasion for the Law of Nature is the Image of GOD yet remaining in some degrees on the Souls of men and is nothing else save certain notions of Truth impressed by GOD on the Souls of all men that enjoy the exercise of Reason Now self-defence cannot be a Law of Nature otherwise it could never be dispensed with without a Sin nay were a man never so criminal For as in no case a man may kill himself were he never so guilty so by that reasoning of yours he ought not to suffer himself to be killed neither should any Malefactor submit to the Sentence of the Judge but stand to his defence by all the force he could raise And it will not serve turn to say that for the good of the Society he ought to submit for no man must violate the Laws of Nature were it on never so good a design and since the utmost standard of our love to our Neighbors is to love them as our selves no consideration of the good of others can oblige one to yield up his Life if bound by the Law of Nature to defend it Crit. If I may interrupt you I should tell you that as among all Nations it hath been counted Heroical to die for ones Country or for the good of others so the Apostle speaks Rom. 5.7 of those who for good men would dare to die But chiefly CHRIST'S dying for us shews that self-defence can be no Law of Nature otherwise CHRIST who filled all Righteousness had never contradicted the Laws of Nature Bas. I thank you for your remark which was pertinent But next consider there are some rights or permissions of Nature which are allowed us but not required of us as propriety of goods marriage and other such like things which whose doth not pretend to he cannot be said to violate the Laws of Nature only for some greater consideration he forgoes these Priviledges it allows And take men out of a Society I acknowledge forcible Resistance of any violent Assailant to be one of the rights of Nature which every man may make use of without a Fault or dispense with likewise at his pleasure But Societies being Associations of People under a Head who hath the power of Life and Death that sets it beyond doubt that the Head must only judge when the Subjects do justly fore-seal their Lives or not which before I go about to evince I must remove that vulgar Error of a Magistrate's deriving his power from the surrender of the People None can surrender what they have not take then a multitude of People not yet associated none of them hath power of his own Life neither hath he power of his Neighbors since no man out of a Society may kill another were his Crime never so great much less be his own murderer and a multitude of People not yet associated are but so many individual Persons therefore the power of the Sword is not from the People nor any of their Delegation but is from GOD. Isot. You will pardon me to tell you that the People must give the power since GOD did it never by a Voice from Heaven or by a Prophets command except in some Instances among the Israelites where even that was not done but upon the previous desire of the People And for what you say of the Peoples having no right to kill themselves they only consent to submit to the Magistrates Sentence when guilty Basil. This will then infallibly prove that forcible self-defence cannot be a Law of Nature but only a Right otherwise we could not thus dispense with it But if though guilty I ought not to kill my self neither can I so much as consent that another do it Hence it is that the original of Magistracy must be from GOD who only can invest the Prince with the power of the Sword Polyb. I could say much in Confirmation of that from the universal Sense of all Nations who ever looked on the Magistrates power as Sacred and Divine but these things are so copiously adduced by others that I may well spare my labor Crit. Nay a greater authority is St. Paul's Rom. 13.1 who saith That the powers that were then were ordained of GOD which on the way saith strongly for asserting the right of a Conquerour after some prescription since if either we consider the power of the Roman Empire over the world or of their Emperours over them both will be found to have no better title than Conquest and
that were betwixt him and Zisca the resistance was not made to the King of Bohemia and therefore all that time was an Interregnum and is so marked by their Historian who tells that the Bohemians could not be induced to receive him to be their King he indeed invaded the Kingdom and crowned himself but was not chosen by the States till fifteen years after that a Peace was concluded and he with great difficulty prevailed upon the States to ratifie his Coâ—onation and acknowledge him their King See Dub. lib. 24. lib. 26. And by all this I doubt not but you are convinced that the Wars of Zasca were not of the nature of Subjects resisting their Sovereign And for the late Bohemian War besides what was already alledged of the Power of the States their War against Ferdinand and the reason why by a solemn decree they rejected him was because he invaded the Crown without an Election contrary to the fundamental Laws of the Kingdom hereupon they choosed the Prince Elector Palatine to be their King It is true they rose also in Arms while Matthias lived though he did not long survive these Tumults but in all their Apologies they founded their plea on the Liberties of the Kingdom of Bohemia And yet though this say much for their defence I am none of the Patrons of that War which had very few defenders among the Protestants Isot. At length you must yield there was War for defence of Religion but if without the inclosure of Bohemia we examine the History of Germany there we meet with that famous Smalcaldick War in opposition to Charles V. who was designing the overthrow of the Protestant Doctrine which the Elector of Saxony with the Landgrave of Hâ—ssen and other free Cities managed against him See p. 427. Poly. If any of the Passions of men have mingled in the actions of Protestants must these therefore be fasten'd on them as their Doctrine especially when they went not upon Principles of Religion but of Provincial Lawâ— As for Germany let me first tell you how far the Protestants were against Rebellion upon pâ—etence of Religion At first the Rustick War had almost kindled all Germany which indeed began upon very unjust Causes but Sleydan lib. 5. tells That some troublesome Preachers had been the cauâ—ers of that great and formidable War Now it is to little purpose to say they were in many errors and so fought not for the true Religion since it was befoâ—e made out that if Religion be to be fought for every man believing his own Religion to be true is bound to take Arms in its defence since even an erring Conscience binds Bâ—t as these Tumults did â—pâ—ead through Germany Luther published a Writing desiring all to abstain fâ—om Sedition though with â—l hâ— told he apprehended some strange â—udgment was hanging over the Church-men but that was to be lâ—ft to God After which he explains the duty of the Magistrates And adds That the People should be severely charged not to stir without the command of their Magistrates and that nâ—thing was to be attempted by private Persons that all Sedition was against the command of God and that Sedition was nothing but private Revenge and therefore hated by God Adding That the Seditions then stirring were raised by the Devil who stirred up these who professed the Gospel to them that thereby the truth might be brought under hatred and reproach as if that could not be of God which gave occasion to so great evils Then he tells what means were to be used for advancing of the Gospel That they were to repent of their sins for which God had permitted that tyranny of the Church-men Next That they should pray for the Divine aid and publickly assert the truth of the Gospel and discover the Impostures of the Popes And he adds That this had been his method which had been much blessed of God In a word the whole strain of that first Paper shews that the great bait used to train all into that Rebellion was the pretence of the liberty of Religion and the tyrannical oppression they were kept under by the Ecclesiasticks But upon this the Beures published a Writing containing their Grievances The first whereof was That they might have liberty to choose Ministers who might preach the Word of God purely to them without the mixture of mens devises The other particulars related to their Civil Liberties And upon these Pretensions they appealed to Luther who wrote again Acknowledging the great Guilt of these Princes who received not the purity of the Gospel but he warns the People to consider what they did lest they lost both Body and Soul in what they attempted That they were neither to consider their own strength nor the faultiness of their Adversaries but the justice and lawfulness of the Cause and to be careful not to believe all Mens preachings for the Devil had raised up many Seditions and bloody Teachers at that time Wherefore he forbids them to take God ' s Name in vain and pretend that they desired in all things to follow his Laws But minds them who threatned that they who took the Sword should perish by the Sword and of the Apostle who commands all to be obedient to Magistrates charging on them that though they pretended the Laws of God yet they took the Sword and resisted the Magistrate But he adds You say the Magistrates become intolerable for they take the Doctrine of the Gospel from us and oppress us to the highest degree But be it so stars and seditions are not therefore to be raised neither must every one coërce crimes that belongs to him to whom the power of the Sword is given as is express in Scripture And besides this is not only according to the Laws but is by the light of Nature impressed on all mens minds which shews that no man can cognosce and judge in his own Cause since all men are blinded with self-love And it cannot be denied but this Tumult and Sedition of yours is a private Revenge But if you have any warrant for this from God you must make it out by some signal Miracle The Magistrate indeed doth unjustly but you much more so who contemning the Command of God invade anothers Iurisdiction And he tells them That if these things take place there will be no more Magistracy nor Courts of Iustice if every man exercise private Revenge And if this be unlawful in a private Person much more is it so in a multitude gathered together Wheâ—efore he counts them unworthy of the name of Christians nay worse than Turks who thus violate the Laws of Nature Then for proof of his opinion he adduceth that of our Lord's resist not evil as also his râ—proving of S. Peter for smiting with the Sword These steps were to be fâ—llowed by you saith he or this glorious Title must be laid down And if you followed his Example God ' s power would appear and he would undoubtedly
may fairly infer with Sir Iohn Sheen Title 8. of the heads of our Laws drawn up by him That all Iurisdiction stands and consists in the King's Person by reason of his Royal Authority and Crown and is competent to no Subject but flows and proceeds from the King having Supreme Iurisdiction and is given and committed by him to such Subjects as he pleases Eud. I must confess my self pleased with this discussion of these points you have been tossing among you and though I have sate silent yet I have followed the thread of all your discourse with much close attention and was mightily confirmed in my former Perswasion both by the evidence of Reason the authorities of Scripture and these instances of History were adduced But there are many other things yet to be talked of though I confess this be of the greatest Importance and the satisfaction I have received in this makes me long to hear you handle the other matters in debate Phil. I suppose we have forgot little that belonged to this question but for engaging further at this time I have no mind to it it being so long passed Midnight we shall therefore give some truce to our debates and return upon the next appointment Eud. I were unworthy of the kindness you shew me did I importune you too much but I will presume upon your friendship for me to expect your company to Morrow at the same hour you did me the favor to come here to day Isot. I shall not fail to keep your hour tho I be hardly beset in such a croud of Assailants but Truth is on my side and it is great and shall prevail therefore good night to you Basil. I see you are not shaken out of your confidence for all the foils you get yet our next days discourse will perhaps humble you a little more but I refer this to the appointment wherein we hope to meet again and so Adieu Eud. Adieu to you all my good Friends THE SECOND CONFERENCE Eudaimon YOU are again welcome to this place and so much the more that your staying some minutes later than the appointment was making me doubt of your coming and indeed this delay proved more tedious and seemed longer to me than the many hours were bestowed on your yesterdays Conference but methinks Isotimus your looks though never very serene have an unusual Cloud upon them I doubt you have been among the Brotherhood whom your ingenious Relation of what passed here hath offended Their Temper is pretty well known to us all some of them being as the Pestilence that walketh in darkness with the no less zealous but scarcely more ignorant Sisterhood they vent their pedling stuff but of all things in the World shun most to engage with any that can unmask them and discover their follies And their safest way of dealing with such Persons is to laugh at them or solemnly to pity them with a disdainful Brow And that is the best refutation they will bestow on the solidest Reason or if any of them yelp out with an Answer sense or nonsense all is alike the premises are never examined only if the conclusion be positively vouched as clearly proved from Scriptures and Reason the sentence is irreversibly past and you may as soon bow an Oak of an hundred years old as deal with so much supercilious Ignorance Tell plainly have you been in any such Company Isot. What wild extravagant stuff pour you out on better men than your self but I pity your ignorance who know not some of these precious Worthies whose Shooe Latchets you are not worthy to unloose But the truth is you have got me here among you and bait me by turns either to ease your own Galls or to try mine yet it is needless to attempt upon me for as I am not convinced by your Reasons so I will not be behind with you in Reflections and I will â—â—ow and fight both as a Coâ—k of the Game 〈◊〉 Hold hold for these serve to no use bâ—t t◠〈◊〉 pâ—â—vish humâ—rs I will therefore engage you in another subject about the Civil Authority which our yesterdays debate left untouched which is the obedience due to their Commands let us therefore consider how far Subjection obligeth us to obey the Laws of the Civil Powers Isot. Had you not enough of that yesterday Is it not enough that the Magistrate be not resisted but will not that serve turn with you or do you design that we surrender our Consciences to him and obey all his Laws good or bad and follow Leviathan's Doctrine of embracing the Magistrates Faith without enquiry which is bravely asserted by the Author of Ecclesiastical Policy This is indeed to make the King in God'â— stead and to render Cesar the things that are God's which is a visible design either for Pâ—peâ—â— or Atheism Philâ—r Truly Sir you consider little if you â—uâ—ge submission to the Penalties of the Lawâ— to be all the duty we owe Superiors It is true where the Legislators leave it to the Subjects choice either to do a thing enacted or to pay a Fine in that Case Obedience is not simply required so that he who pays the Mâ—lct fulfils his Obligation But wheâ—e a Law is simply made and Obedience enâ—oined and a Penalty fixed on Disobedience in that Case nâ—thing but the sinfulness of the Command can excuse our disobedience neither can it be said that he sins not who is content to submit to the punishment since by the same method of arguing you may prove that such horrid Atheists as say they are content to be damned do not sin against God since they are willing to submit to the threatned punishment The right of exacting our Obedience is therefore to be distinguished from the power of punishing our faults And as we have already considered how far the latter is to be acquiesced in it remains to be examined what is due to the former But here I lay down for a Principle That whatever is determined by the Law of God cannot be reversed nor countermanded by any humane Law For the Powers that are being ordained of God and they being his Ministers do act as his Deputies and the tie which lies on us to obey God being the foundation of our subjection to them it cannot bind us to that which overthrows it self Therefore it is certain God is first to be obeyed and all the Laws of men which contradict his Authority or Commands are null and void of all obligation on our Obedience but I must add it is one of the arts of you know whom to fasten Tenets on men who judge these Tenets worthy of the highest Anathema For if it be maintained that the Magistrate can bind obligations on our Consciences then it will be told in every Conventicle that here a new Tyranny is brought upon Souls which are God's Prerogative though this be nothing more than to say we ought to be subject for Conscience sake If again it be proved that the