Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	call_v	church_n	pillar_n	6,253	5	10.5659	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A44111	An answer to several material passages in a book published some time since by W.P. entituled, A brief examination and state of liberty spiritual, both with respect to persons in their private capacity, and in their church-society and communion, &c. by J.H.	Hogg, John, fl. 1675-1698.	1691 (1691)	Wing H2368; ESTC R13730	50,925	60

for she comes down from above ready prepared of God for all that is fit to enter therein Man's Work ceaseth here for he can add nothing to her Beauty and Perfection Martha's over Carefulness ends here and Mary's better part is enjoyed that can never be taken away and as Man's over-carefulness is over here so fear is at an end for as there is no Night here so her Gates stand open by Day for the good to enter therein whilst that which is not good cannot The true Church is here indeed but not yet referable to any Society with respect to outward Rules and therefore ought to be waited for by all Again he tells us Page 4. To plead being left to the Grace of God against Vnity is to abuse the very Plea c. Answer The drift of this Argument is like the rest to gain a presumptive dependance upon Men either for their greater number or for some external consideration or other without 〈◊〉 regard to Conviction or Perswasion 't is true to plead this against our Understanding is an abuse of the Plea and is little better than Heresie but none can be an Heretick that truly fears God therefore to plead this against this or that thing brought in by this or that Man or by this or that Assembly that we believe is wrong is so far from abusing the Plea that it may be a true using of it therefore before the Plea is proved abused he must prove the things brought in to concern the Essence of true Religion or those that bring them in to be infallible that so we may have something that is certain to depend on for as that is a-wanting Truth is to seek till this be done he doth nothing but beg the Question we are satisfied and that he knows it Page the 4th he saith I must say unto thee Friend what if thou wilt not be left unto the Grace and Spirit of God in thy self c. Answ We answer readily then such do the thing that is extreamly evil but on the other hand what if they are left with the Grace and Spirit of God which they may or at least some for any thing that he hath said What Care has he taken What Remedy has he provided that true liberty and freedom of Speech may be maintained Not a word of that which as it shews he has not asserted the Truth for that has no respect to Persons but allows equal liberty to all so it discovers him partially devoted in this business He cannot but know equal liberty is absolutely necessary in Truths Government as also the want of it hath ruined most of Christian Societies before us and as we have heretofore impeached the Building of others as not good where that was awanting allowing it at that time as a main Pillar of our Building if discontinued our Building that was true will not only fall down but then what is set up will be worse than what has been before us by how much we did begin better Again in the same Page he asketh If he may not exhort to the practice of what he is moved to press to the practice of c. If not he saith Thou art the Imposer by restraining me from my Christian liberty and not only so but away goeth Preaching and with it the Scripture that are both appointed of God for Exhortation R●proof and Instruction Answer We are as much for saving of the Scripture as he is and for saving of all that is good therefore we grant he may exhort to what he believes he is moved to press to the practice of and thus having agreed with him to save true liberty and all that is good we hope he will accord with us to shut all out that is not good therefore we say though we have granted this liberty as above it 's not our Duty to obey him because he says it but because we know or at least are perswaded that what he says is true for he may be mistaken and moved to what is wrong as well as to what is right for any thing that we know and the same that may be said to him is true to every one and all Men in the things of God Again in the same Page he Questions But are there not various Measures diversities of Gifts and several Offices in the Body To this he answers Yea and then questions But therefore are not the Members of one Mind and Judgment in common and universal Matters relating to the Church of God Answer There is not much doubt in this when truly understood but we are to mind that we be not deceived and imposed upon as to what is or ought to be accounted common and universal Matters By common and universal Matters we understand and we hope according to Truth that is what has been commonly and universally received and not new and novel things that have not been so received for all new things that have not been so received they must stay that bring them in whatever they are till they come in as the former did to wit by Conviction or at least by Perswasion before they can be truly said to be common and universal Matters and in the mean time observe this of Conviction and Perswasion preceding Conformity hath been a common and universal matter or thing because commonly and universally received among us as a great Truth we believing no true Building could be or stand without it therefore let us mind we leave not common and universal Matter and old Truths too for new Notions for if we must receive new things for common and universal Matters because some that bring them in call them so would have them so or at best believe they should be so we do not only go from this old received Truth Conviction and Perswasion the main Pillar of every true Building but then what is it that may not be obtruded This would bring us to rest upon Opinion and what is uncertain then what is more contrary to Truth and the whole tendency of his Discourse seems to this purpose on which account many excellent Truths are mis-applied Page the 5th he tells us What comes from the Light Life and Spirit in one is the same in Truth and Vnity to the rest as if it rise in themselves this is seen he saith in our Assemblies every day c. Answer The Design of this Argument is to gain a dependance upon the teachings of God by Instruments equal at least to the teaching of God immediately by his Spirit in our own Hearts but how plausible soever this is 't is not according to the Truth as 't is in Jesus for though there is no contrariety in the Spirit of God so no contradiction in the Spirit teaching being all for one and the same end to wit the good of Man by the Salvation of his Soul yet betwixt God's teaching by Instruments and teaching immediately by his Spirit in our own Hearts there is this distinction

be quiet let all concerned consider there is that to be done they yet cannot do that so in a sense of our Nothingness and Inability we may wait on him that 's able to do all things and in the mean time let us consider if it hath not been on this foot that all before us since the Apostacy have miscarried hasting God's work taking that to themselves God has not yet given to any visible Society if so we can only avoid that Rock by being more humble And therefore we desire such as do know what he means and take themselves of this Church to consider seriously in their own minds if they find themselves thus qualified to take the Government of Christ upon their Shoulders that so others may certainly depend on them in the things of God as infallible and if they do not thus find it then to consider if they certainly know who are thus qualified on whom not only themselves but others also may depend But if this be not known then whether they are still to suppose that there is some that are thus qualified and on that Supposition presumingly depend seeing where there wants Certainty there must want Truth This we commend to every ones serious Consideration for the good of their own Immortal Souls that they may not depend on Suppositions Conjectures or at best but on Probabilities but that all may be established on God's everlasting Truth manifested in their own Souls the Truth of all Shadows and that which fulfils all Additions for Righteousness sake But again what doth he drive at What doth he intend by placing Infallibility upon this Church as it relates to Men To us it must either be to set up the worship of God or not if not we cannot find 't is worth his while for if God's worship may be known without their being set up as infallible there can be but little if any thing at all in it for where God's worship is truly known such must love God with all their Hearts and who so loves God cannot avoid loving his Neighbour as himself and herein the whole Duty of Man seems included But if any think the worship of God cannot be set up but as direction comes from Men called a Church and that because nothing can set up the worship of God but what is infallible therefore we must accept the Church as infallible in this matter then we enquire if this be not to have two infallible Rules for one and the same thing for the Spirit of Truth is certainly one infallible Rule and if this Church be another then here 's two but as this is improper so they cannot both stand together However we may distinguish the one from the other the one is to be look'd for in the mind the other from Men called a Church without and so the one is inward the other outward but taking this in the best sense not as meer Men but as they think Men indewed with God's Spirit and thereby fitted for Government Now which of those must give way for both cannot stand in equal Authority together will any venture to say that the inward must give way for a few or the lesser number cannot be so such as many or the greater number however not as this Church that is set up as the Ground and Pillar of Truth then we desire such to consider if they do not justle Christ out of his Throne or at least set up a Tutor or Governour over the Spirit of Truth as some before us have done who begun well and will still in the general in a good measure acknowledge as we do to the Influences of God's holy Spirit but then they tell us the Scripture is the Rule and what difference is there to tell us the Church is the Rule the Heir while under Tutors and Governours differing nothing from a Servant though he be Lord of all We would by no means miss your meaning either you take your selves as infallible in the matter or not if not we say why do you impose upon your Brethren For if you 're not infallible certainly you must allow Conviction to preceed Conformity but if you think your selves infallible we tell you notwithstanding that you are to give way for we hope all will conclude our Saviour perfect and every way infallible and as good and as certain a Rule as any Church can be while he was in that Body prepared for him and if his Disciples could not be made perfect while he so abode with them we hope no Church will take more to themselves or think they can do more than he did Well then if you will seek his Will as he sought or did the Father's Will you must do as he did you must tell your Disciples or those that depend upon you that you must go away as a guide to them in the worship of God and a holy Conversation before they can be made perfect for it is certainly as expedient for you to let all know how far your Ministry can go as it was for him did he tell his Disciples it was expedient for him to go away or else the Comforter could not come the Spirit of Truth that only guide into all Truth 'T is as expedient we are sure for you to let all know that except Men come into their own minds and there wait to know the work and teaching of God for themselves they can never be made perfect by your Ministry We would not have you mistake us do we hereby make void the gifts of God given unto Men for the work of the Ministry No by no means but we would have all to know that the best of gifts for this end are but Additions and are not to be perpetuated as for ever for that which is but until hath a limit and ends in him that gave them and as all ought to look for Christ the hope of Glory to arise in their minds to fulfil every Addition so should all that have received any gift from God direct all to him in whom they all end otherwise such will be always learning but can never know that Truth that maketh free for though the light of a Candle is good 't is in the dark 't is in the Night and they that use it are sensible of its service yet in in its use wait for the Day to come for the Sun to arise where its service is swallowed up and truly fulfilled even so the light that comes from Men as it comes from God to them is good and serviceable by way of direction but its chief service is to those that are in the dark and therefore if the Son of Righteousness be not waited for through the use of it to rise upon their Souls they still remain in the dark notwithstanding all the teaching of Men let their Gifts and Abilities be what they will therefore send all to Christ and leave all with him seek his Honour truly and he will certainly seek yours

all Truth and gave this for a reason as it was an inward and hidden Rule if allowed sufficient as Independent to any outward Rule then it opened a way for the Worlds Libertines to plead the light within for their excesses and thus though they owned the light within and Spirit of God in a sense yet they set up the Scriptures as superiour and guide unto it and do not you in effect the same thing For though you do not set up the Scriptures yet both by the management of things and the tendency of our Author's discourse you set up the Church as a Rule and Guide to the Spirit and Light within and what difference is there seeing both have equally been misapplied by the cunning crafty reasonings of Men Now consider is there any cause for all this noise save your Brethren pleading the light within against your forcing new things upon them 'T is true he saith This Plea is a Deviation from the ancient Testimony but how doth he prove it For forcing circumstantial ceremonial or shadowy things is of the same nature with the imposing of such like things by others the difference of the the thing or Persons do not alter the nature of Imposition Imposition is Imposition still so that if you impose it will be the same thing and you must either impose or not if you deny that you impose why are not you quiet But if you own that you do impose to us you justifie their Pleas against you to be short you must bring those things in about which the difference is either as Terms of Communion or not if you did not bring them in as Terms of Communion then why do you criminate your Brethren as evil doers whilst you have nothing against them but refusing compliance with your Opinions As this shews the want of Charity so 't is no proof that your cause is good but as you bring them in as Terms of Communion whilst they are no essential things you must be wrong whether the things be wrong or nay for if brought in as Terms of Communion whether right or wrong they must be received Therefore as the liberty of choice is taken away our Understanding is superfluous such service indeed may be blind or worse but can never be reasonable This appears as an excess in you and as every excess is a wrong for which you must plead the light within or some other thing if some other thing pray let us know what it is in the mean time as this is a wrong must it not be opposed by such as see it a wrong by setting the measure of Understanding God has given against this wrong how else shall wrong now or any for the future be redressed If this be what our Author terms Confusion and setting measure against measure are not you first in the matter by administring the occasion setting your measure not only against but over your Brethren For in the Truth to us it doth not appear but your Brethren have as much power to refuse things as you can have to impose and where the power 〈◊〉 equal the difference about Opinions in circumstantials ought to be discontinued by those that gave the occasion for we are sure it is more according to Truth for you to omit the doing of what you may believe is good in this sense than for others to receive what they believe is wrong it will not be your calling them requisite things that can give you any Authority for ceremonials or circumstantials will still be such when you have said and done what you can But if this be Babel indeed a Term of his own starting are not you the Master Work-men in this building the cause for which the Language is divided And then is not there a plain parallel betwixt your work and that in the Land of Shiner They were there of one Language while they journyed and till they began to build their end was Preservation as well as yours but as they took their own Counsel and not the Lord's he divided their Language not for their hurt but that they might be stopped which otherwise they would not in that fruitless labour that as it could never be perfected so it could not answer the end designed And like to this was not we of one language whilst we truly travelled for the true rest of the Soul to wit Union and Communion with God in that holy Spirit of his Son Christ Jesus But when we found Shinar a Plain and took up our dwelling there in the likeness of Truth then did not we as others before us begin to build and bring in the Brick instead of the true Stone and Slime instead of the true Mortar proper Materials indeed for a great Building and yet but the product of Man's reason and though our end was Preservation yet forasmuch as those Materials that makes this our Building cannot regenerate the Soul nor make the Mind holy and as over-valued hath stopped our Travel and Journeying the Lord has looked down to behold our work and because it cannot answer the end designed and we would not be stopped otherwise has he not as of old and often since divided our language not for our hurt but for our good if we could but make the true use of it which is to cease our Building our Works and so return to him that did begin to work in us by his holy Spirit for he only can perfect it and restore to us not only one language but the pure language which can never be done any other way for no hopes of doing it by our strength and work for that caused the division that way we may become a Sect but can never be born of God's universal Spirit where that one Original language is known to which all that fear God must at last be gathered till this is known as there has been turnings and overturnings on this account so it must still continue till he come to rule whose right it is We wish in the love of God it could be truly weighed and considered before it be too late And in the mean time for you to call such Pleas as those leave me to the Grace of God and to the Spirit of Truth loose Pleas together with several such like mentioned in his Book we must say we look upon it as of dangerous consequence what though some may abuse them will you take them away and with them freedom of Speech 〈◊〉 you demolish those Fortifications that the Truth hath reared against Imposition Innovation and in some sort provided against an Apostacy This appears to us the fore-runner of a Retreat as others before us have done who begun with the Spirit but after sought to be made perfect by some outward way or thing For if such Pleas and Testimonies of truth as these that nothing is a Duty but what we are perswaded on and that we ought to be left to the Grace of God because the Spirit of Truth is