owne blood This hee cannot indure this hee cannot read with patience against this hee proclames open warre gibes often at it and reproacheth every one that sincerely embraceth the same But let him take heed least for calling good evill Chap. 5.20 God bring not the woe in Esai upon his head As for the unreverend terme it self which hee giveth unto Christs instuution we weigh it not neither are we any more discouraged from the holding of it fast then were our fathers of elder time discouraged from embracing the Gospell Act. 28.22 24.5 1 Cor. 1.23 Act. 24.14 because the enimies of it called it schisme faction folishnes heresie c. It is reported of one Theodotius having denyed Christ that hee might not be blamed for it taught that Christ was meere man and not God So Mr. Paget in the case of Church gouvernment that his owne and other mens faults may not be seene in not using or submitting to it doth labour what hee can to discredit the same But whether the power which wee stand for be schismaticall or his Apostaticall I hope by this Treatise the Reader shall be able to judge 4. Hee saith I have bene injurious unto him in spreading abâ—oad so many untruths against him as are before noted Answ 1. I had a just cause to doe what I did both for the truth sake and his owne too For first if every good subject be bound to his power to maintaine the temporall rights and Lawes of Princes whether it be by discovering of treason suppressing rebellion or the like Then much more ought all Christs subjects to doe what they can Rev. 2.25 to preserve the good estate of his spirituall Kingdome Againe who will not draw his brother out of a deepe pit or well if hee see any way or meanes for it The truth is Mr. Paget through Satan and his owne lust is fallen into many great sinnes and therefore out of Christian compassion to his soule I published the booke being confident if there be any farther course to be taken by me for his recovery this is it because now questionles hee shall see if hee will be contended to open his eyes his errours soundly and effectually refuted 2. Whereas hee saith our writings are untruths I say hee speakes untruely in it for there is nothing set downe there but will be prooved as in part I shall doe in this treatise and more I understand is shortly to come forth Besides I doubt not but Mr. Davenport will doe the like so farre as the thing concerneth him 3. Howsoever hee hath made a large discours in his owne justification notwithstanding hee hath not cleared himself at all in the maine things laid to his charge viz. promiscuous Baptisme and the authority of the Classis Yet hee knowes untill hee proove these two points to be lawfull our whole writing standeth firmely and effectually against him As for the many swâ—llâ—ng 〈◊〉 used throughout his booke in his owne praise In my understanding it had beene better Prov. 27.2 if some other had done it and not his owne mouth In the Olympicks games men did not put garlands and Crownes on their owne heads but waited till others did it In truth self prayse is very unseemely Hence in derision they say Hee dwelt by bad neighbours Besides such persons usually are least credited * Ioh. 8.13 and good reason too for the greatest boasters are commonly the worst dooers * 1 Sam. 15 13. Revel 3.15 c. As the emptiest vessels make the loudest sound driest things the greatest flame so those which proclame as with sound of trumpet their owne goodnes have most times least of it That I may be the lesse offensive in my words I will here speake to Mr. Paget in his owne Pag. 61. Certainly it was a want of modesty and prudency in him to make such disputes in his owne commendation For hee hath vainely praysed himself and wrounged us 7. Pag. 10. Yea in stead of clearing himself hee is more polluted His owne tongue defileth him And therefore his glorying is not good The fift thing wherein I am injurious in his conceit is to our whole Congregation to blot the same with report of infamous contention faction c. Answ 1. As they that stirre up warre and strife Iudg. 11.13 1 King 18.18 impute the cause unto others which lyeth on themselves so dealeth Mr. Paget with me For who hath bene the cause and authour to blot our Congregation with report of infamous contention faction c. but hee chiefly For had hee contained himself within his owne bounds not plaid the Diotrephes suffered the Church to have exercised her owne due power not brought in mens devises amongst us wee had not seene and felt the shame and misery which now wee doe And that all may see whatsoever infamy our Church lyeth under that it is come principally by his meanes I desire these things may be taken into consideration 1 The abuses from time to time done to our Elders that which they jointly doe if it fall not in his line hee termeth it an unrighteous law a bone of contention a rocke of offence In his Letter given into the Consistory 11. Mar. 1632. injurious to the Magristrate destroyers of the liberty of the Church ringleaders to faction c. If they in opinion differ from him then hee makes them parties and so disableth them from judging in the case yea professeth hee will not tollerate the thing I doe let passe to speake of his taxing them for insufficiency of his procureing the Classes to censure them Pag. 18.63 how hee rejects their advise and counceill For of all these things wee shall have a fitter place hereafter This onely by the way I say how sleightly soever hee thinkes of Ruling Elders notwithstanding they have a great place in the Church of Christ such power and authority as taking the consent of the Church with them they may call the Pastour to give them an account of his doing Yea and to depose him from his ministery If there be just cause although Classes and Synods take his part Let no man thinke that this is a new doctrine for our chief Divines teach it If any one * Protestat Kings supr pag. 15. Offer Confer pag. 2. of the Ecclesiasticall Officers themselves shall sinne hee is as subiect to the Censures of the rest as any other member in the Congregation If they shall all sinne scandalously either in the execution of their office Repl. to D. Downames defen l. 2. part 2 pag. 109. Discours of Troub at Franck pag. 162. art 65 or in any other ordinarie manner then the Congregation that chose them freely hath as free power to depose them and to place others in their roome And no marvaill if Protestants write thus For the Papists ingeniously say as much The * Ferus in Act. Apost cap. 11. Church may not onely exact an account of her
Popish Priests teach sundry untruths Mr. Paget teacheth many things as they doe therefore Mr. Paget teacheth many untruths If this argument will not passe in Schooles then certainly a great part of Mr. Pagets Booke wants as truth so art too 2. For his reputing me to have the least understanding among the complainants I little esteeme thereof for indeed I know my Talent this way is very small yet I prayse God for it and doe desire to improove the same unto his glory and wish from my heart that as Mr. Paget hath received a greater measure of good gifts so hee would hereafter labour to put them to a better use and not seeke by his witt and learning to discountenance the truth and countenance errour to the dishonour of Gods great Name the generall grief of many good people and to the hardning of sinners in their perverse and crooked wayes Luk. 12.48 Hee knowes well enough were it is written Vnto whomsoever much is given of him shall be much required 3. It doth not well become a man of Mr. Pagets place and profession to upbraid any with their simplicity 1 Cor. 1.27 Act. 4.13 Mat. 18.19 Iudg. 6.15 and meannesse gifts considering how the Lord many times chooseth the foolish things of the world to bring great things thereby to passe And truely for mine owne part as weake as I am yet I trust through Christ to be able to defend our just case undertaken against him Phil. 4.13 howsoever I know my self in diverse respects many wayes inferiour unto him And therefore I doe entreat him to lay boasting aside and not glory in the flesh but to follow the truth in love 1 Kings 20 12. without calumniations and evill speaches that so our controversy may the better and sooner be ended 4. But if I am so ignorant as hee reports me to be how came it then to passe that hee and others made an Officer of me the Scriptures forbid that one of the least understanding should be made a Deacon in any Church of God Act. 6.3 1. Ti. 3.8.9 Rom. 12.8 Certainly therefore when I was elected either you Mr. Paget dealt not well with the Congregation in not dehorting them from the action by shewing unto them my great unfitnes or otherwise you have now out of some ill will taken up this thing of purpose against me in hope by the disabling of me to honour the more your self and your owne baddoings by it 5. Such as will impartially read your Booke may plainly perceive that there is in you a very ill property that is in not-carying your self more meekely and gently towards him whom you judge to be the weakest of many Pauls practise was otherwise hee never shewed himself that wee can read froward violent and bitter in speaches unto weake and simple men It was not his manner to gibe 2 Cor. 11.29 2 Tim. 2.24.25 Eph. 6.4 Gal. 6.1 scoffe and gird at them and to publish abroad unto others their infirmities of set purpose to exasperate them and to make them contemptible The more infirme any member is in our naturall bodies the more softly wee handle it But have you Mr. Paget dealt so with me speake out You say I am simple I pray what meanes have you used to make me wiser Have you hitherto taken any particular course for my bettering Saveing of late indeed you have sent forth into the world many untruths against mee If your simple and weake people shall find such hard dealing at your hands what may be stronger and wiser exspect Well may I say in another mans words Is this the long suffering spirit of meeknes in seeking to recover the lost Pol. Virg. 6. If Mr. Paget dare take my testimony I doe assure him there are many that wonder at his great oversight how hee could without blushing mention the Brownists in this thing as thinking to advantage his case any way by it Considering what a chief agent hee hath bene unto some which were some times of them not onely to set their discontented humours upon scandalous enterprises but to gather up himself all the personall fayling which hee could find out among them and afterwards under other mens names to publish it in print whereby to make them odious Oh me thinkes seeing hee knew himself faulty this way hee should have bene therewith so deepely affected as in the words of another said As I have done so hath God requited me Indeed wee read in Scripture Iudg. 1.7 that the Lord many times punisheth men in the same kind and manner wherein they have offended * Exod. 22.23.24.1 Sam. 15.35 Eccl. 7.21.22 Est. 7.10 Frov. 5.22 Psal 7.16 But I perceive Mr. Paget lookes upon others otherwise then on himself and thinkes his neighbours may not take the liberty to returne that backe unto him which hee sends abroad But to leave him in the midst of his owne thoughts I doe desire thee good Reader to take notice how greatly hee hath abused thee and many others by a false report in saying that the Brownists were speciall Actours in the worke chief agents setters of us at worke encouragers of us against him Whereas I speake it in all good conscience that not one of them to my knowledge did ever meddle with our matters or helped us at any time either by word or writing Indeed when I brought the copies to the presse I entreated the Printer as I said before to set it out in a good order and no other assistance was there sought either from him or any other of them Mr. Paget promiseth his Readers in the first page of his Preface to give some light unto them for the better decerning and judging of the differences between us Now truely if this be his best light I hope the Godly wise will take heed how to follow it For in truth the light which hee here sets up is much like unto a false latterne which ill disposed people hang out on some cleft or high place of purpose to cause the Mariners to misse the haven and to runne their Vessells on the rocks Much better therefore hee had done if hee had followed the Apostles precept that is Ro. 14.13 Not have put a stumbling blocke or an occasion to fall in his brothers way For such a practise displeaseth God and bringeth alwayes at last sorrow and shame unto the doer of it SECTION II. TOuching the matter conteyned in his Booke my answer to it if God will shall be thus First I will shew how injuriously hee hath dealt with me in particular Secondly proove that the things which hee maintaineth against us are unlawfull In the 92 page of his Booke hee proclames me to be a man that have given great offence and am become an evill example unto many by the open violation of the Sabbath in mine owne house and by resorting unto the assembly of the Remonstrants and have bene admonished by him in the name of the Eldership and
till I saw the accusation out in print And what I here say Mr. Paget knowes it to be true although with his pen hee hath writen otherwise Hee complains against Mr. Davenport in pag. 42. for want of sincere and plaine dealing And why because the other without his knowledge did write his words But what cause have I to complaine against him for want of plaine and sincere dealing for publishing against me many untruths Notwithstanding I will not bid him as hee doth me to awaken his frozen and benummed conscience for I have better learned Christ 1 Pet. 3.9 then to render evill for evill onely in all singlenesse of heart as before the Lord I doe entreat him to take more heed hereafter unto his words and that the Law of truth * See Mal. 2.6 may be in his mouth and that hee will speake it from the heart Hee promised the Reader to stand on his watch and not to doe the least wroung to his opposites Preface for the greatest which they had done unto him Thus indeed hee spake but hath hee done so not in the least For I may truely say as the Prophet saith Hee hath spoken and done evill things as hee could Ier. 3.5 Of which wee shall have just occasion to speake more hereafter 5. Howsoever hee hath charged me with open violation of the Sabbath yet to proove the thing so â—ee will never be able to doe it though hee strive till his heart ake And therefore Christian Reader thou mayest see how farre hee is from taking good wayes to restore me if I am fallen as on the contrary hee seekes by blotting my name to keepe me onward still in an uneven walking But to answer him directly if Mr. Paget had bene as foreward to have made inquirie for the truth of the thing as too foreward to publish an untruth about it hee should have heard with his eares and seene with his eyes that I am so farre from offending this way that my care and labour to the contrary hath bene an occasion of some difference in my familie as also of many jests and reproaches from my neighbours about me And here let it againe be observed the great partiality of this man hee taxeth me for Sabbath breaking Now if hee thinke as hee speaketh that it is a sinne to buy and sell on that day Oh how negligent then is hee in the worke of the Lord in not being more Z alously earnest to have the same reformed Hee cannot possibly be ignorant that under his Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment as hee takes it there are many scoores constantly breakers of the day I say many wayes notwithstanding hee suffereth them alone and never admonisheth them thereof But how hee will be able to answer this unto God let hee himself looke well to it It may be hee thinkes to helpe himself with that devise which hee talkes off in pag. 97. viz. a quarter watching but for my part I verily thinke that the Lord will require a strict account * Matt. 25.24 of him for every soule whither English or Dutch that hee hath undertaken to be a watch man unto them and if hee have taken upon him a greater charge then hee is able to looke unto Let him consider whither hee may not justly feare that the Lord will punish him for his presumption and omission too Lastly whereas hee addes the word open to have the Reader thinke that my offence this way is notorious I answer that never to my knowledge was there any doore or window in my Shop opened on the Lords day to make outwardly any shew whereby to draw people into the same In a word that which hath bene delivered to any hath bene for the most part physicall things for the present use of sicke people SECTION III. BEcause the fowler will be sure to kill the bird if hee can Hee therefore chargeth his peece with many shots that so if one doe misse yet another may strike her dead M r Paget in this place comes out against me Pag. 153. 154. much like such a gunner seeking at one shott to shute all terrible bullets into my sids But I shall endeavour the Lord assisting me to avoyd them all by making it cleere and evident to every indifferent Reader that I am not injurious in any one of the particulars wherewith hee most injuriously accuseth me First hee sayth I am iniurious to Mr. Davenport in printing that which hee wrote without his consent ANSWER 1. HOwsoever Mr. Davenport knew not of it yet for ought I knew hee was not unwilling to have it published 2. Though hee wrote it yet the matter jointly concerned us all therefore it was necessary as I thought that it should not ly hid in the hands of a few men seeing most probably by the publishing of it God would be glorified the truth cleared errour confuted and many good Christians comforted 3. Howsoever Mr. Paget here finds fault with me notwithstanding the same thing hath bene sometime his owne practise I pray who gave him leave to set forth Mr. Ainsworth writings or what consent had hee of Mr. Robinson when hee printed certain letters of his sent privately to D. Ames I doe not mention his doings to justifie my owne thereby but onely to shew his great partialty in judging that to be evill in another which himself notwithstanding is most forward to doe Is not Pauls saying here worthy of remembrance Rom. 2.21 Thou which teachest another teachest thou not thy self The second injury which I have done is to some of my fellow-complaynanss who professe themselves as hee saith highly offended at the printing thereof Answ If they be offended the question is whether it be not an offence taken but none given As for Mr. Paget hee hath not yet prooved nor I thinke ever will that I have transgressed in it and therefore hee begs onely the question not being able to bring any word of God to convince me of sinne for suppose I should here reason thus If some of my fellow complaynants doe professe themselves to be highly offended with Mr. Paget for his bad caraiges unchristian speaches and divers great abuses offered unto many good men Then hath Mr. Paget bene injurious unto them But some of my fellow complaynants doe professe thus Therefore c. Now let me see what defence hee can make for himself which will not serve to cleare me every way as well A third pretended injury is because a Brownist did print it with a schismaticall addition in the end Answ I doe deny that addition to be schismaticall but contrary wise holy and good even a duety commaunded in Scripture practised in the best and purest Churches justifyed by the most judicious Divines ancient and moderne as I shall hereafter largely proove But no marvaill that M r Paget is offended at it seeing the Godly are there encouraged to stand fast in that freedome and liberty which Christ hath purchased for them with his
at all Many other perswasions by words as a so by writing were delivered in Dutch Notwithstanding for all this they would not revoake their sentence but confirmed it a new Is Israel a servant is hee home borne why is hee spoiled But to the point this record to use Mr. Pagets * Pag. 49. words in the like case is an authentick witnes not lyable to exception for what I have here said is recorded in the Acts of our Consistory * Octob. 12. 1631. And that this was to hard a dealing with us I proove it thus 1. There ought to bâ— nothing as Beza * Epist 83. saith imposed on a people against their wills Now imagen that our owne Eldeâ—ship should decree a thing either to be done or not yet could they not enjoyne us by any Law of God to obey them in it further then wee our selves doe see the same to be lawfull and so voluntarily assent unto it And if it be so then by what authority can Officers of other Congregations require us to stand to their acts specially when wee neither like them nor judge them good It seemes Zwinglius was against such doings Ad Valent. Compar for hee saith Whosoever with a Councill of Bishops shall impose on Christian people any Law or observation at their owne liking hee meaneth without the peoples consent hee invadeth the Churches right by a violent commaund Artic. 64. In another place Such Elders as without the Churches consent decree things at their owne pleasure are in name Elders but indeed Tyrants Cyprian * Cypria l. 4 Ep. 21.34.46.26.32 14.31 in sundry places writes that all matters ought to be determined by the Bishops Elders and the people present and consenting Otherwise sayth hee matters are not firme and sure For this very case Chemnitius * Exa Conc. Trid part 1 pag. 3. condemneth the Councill of Trent viz. because they set downe their decrees as it were uncontroulably and not under the examination of the Churches D. Bilson * Cont. Ap. p. 9â— saith that no Councill can bind a whole Church except there be a generall consent 2. Seeing the authority of particular Congregations is as Mr. Parker ‡ Polit. Eccl. l. 3. c. 13. p. 130. saith and largely prooveth it above all Synodes I cannot see what reason a few men haue to take upon them the subjecting of a whole Congregation to their decrees yea and to * Yet thus dealt the Claswith our Eld. because they admitted Mr. Hooker to the Pulpit contrary to their act De Ro. Pont. pract pag. 2. Censure the Eldership if they though with the Churches liking doe contrary to it It was not the manner of Bishops saith D. Whitaker in the primitive times to assume unto themselves jurisdiction and gouvernment over others 3. If it be right * See Park-Pol Eccl. l. 3 c. 12. p. 88. that the common desire of a particular Congregation in things lawfulll should take place before one mans opposition to it then I take it the matter was not well caried when Mr. Paget prevailed against the Eldership and Church too 4. This practise is contrary to the old rule generally received among the learned That ‡ Amb. lib. de dig Sacerd 3. which concerneth all ought of all to be approoved But some may say how is this to be done I answer in the words of D. Fulke * Learned Discours of Eccles disci p. 86. That the Elders sayth hee may have their sentence to be the sentence of the Church they must when they have travailed in examining of cases propound them to the whole multitude that it may be confirmed by their consent Observe here how according to this mans opinion the Classis should first have propounded the thing to our Congregation and if wee jointly had approoved thereof then might they have concluded that it was a Church Act otherwise not 5. Howsoever the Classes have joyned with Mr. Paget against us and they together deprived us of Mr. Hooker and Mr. Davenport notwithstanding hetherto wee have not seene them to warrant their proceedings by the Scriptures and therefore in this respect wee also take it that they have dealt too hardly with us For who knoweth not that in all questions of this nature no other testimony or argument can strike the stroake to perswade the conscience but the word of God for as one * Chrisost in Psal 95. ad finem well saith If any thing be spoken without Scripture the mind of the heareth halteth now sticking at it sometimes turning from it as frivolous sometimes turning to it as probable But when the testimony of the speaker commeth from Divine Scripture it confirmeth both the speach of the speaker and mind of the hearer But as for the Classis all that wee haue yet heard or seene from them for the justification of their Acts against us hath bene either the order * This is the reason they give in their act against Mr. Hooker why hee should not preach it was against the order of the Churches in these Countries of the Church or custome or tradition Now what saith God by Ieremy ‡ Cha. 10.3 The customes of the people are vaine Whatsoever savoreth against the truth is Heresie even old custome said Tertullian * De veland Virg. Custome saith ‡ Cypr. Ep. 74. ad Pomp. another without truth is the mother of errour And in another place * In l. 2. Ep. 3. ad Cicil. Wee must not follow the custome of men but the truth of God To the same purpose speakes Beza ‡ In Luc. 23.27 and others As for orders wee are so farre to be ordered by them as they accord with the order of the Gospell Touching Traditions wee know well enought what they say against them when they deale with the Papists Besides doth not Mr. Page tell us and that * Pag. 37. truely that many worthy Divines are sometimes mistaken Why then may not they be mistaken in our differences In truth wee have the more reason so to thinke considering they bring us no proofe for their doings herein saving bare authoritie And here by the way I thinke good to observe a little of Mr. Pagets talke in pag. 25. having set downe a great part of the Acts and sentences which the Classicall Assembly made against Mr. Hooker also what the Deputies of the Synod did in like manner judge of the thing Hee immediately begins to hold up his head and to looke so big upon us as if there were no remedie but wee must needs runne away and veeld him the cause Had these complaynants saith hee bene wise and considerate persons they would rather have sought to bury the memorie of these things then by their importunate complaints compell me in my owne defence to write these things which otherwise I should not have done But good Sir wherein lyeth the weight of this terrible matter what is it
nothing in them tending that way whereto you stretch them wee say and this is the most that the Magistrates will have us to take one that can speake Dutch and one in this Countrie Now may not they require so much and wee doe it and yet wee keepe still our power If Mr. Paget had but read our words charitably hee should haue seene that which hee inferreth from them to be directly in them contradicted For marke all Readers that haue sence wee say the Magistrates will have us to take one c. doth it not then follow that wee confesse they permit us to use the libertie and power which Christ hath given us yea encourage us to it yet so as wee chuse a man to their liking For conclusion then I shall exspect in his next Booke that hee either blot out this slaunder or make acknowledgement of his fault herein and to induce him the more unto it I wish him to read the Wise-mans saying Devise not evill against thy Neighbour Prov. 3.29 seeing hee dwelleth securelie by thee Lastly let it be noted how unprofitable hee is unto the peace of this Citie in that hee seeketh by untrue reports to set debate betwene the Rulers and people The Scripture saith In the multitude of people is the Kings honour As it is a fathers glory to haue a large posterity a shepheards prayse a great flock so it is a Gouvernours dignity and credit to exercise authority over many faithfull subjects But certain it is Mr. Paget hath bene an occasion not onely to drive some families hence but also a principall hinderer of many and those very rich in the world from coming hither the which thing tendeth unto the great hurt both of Church and Common-wealth and what I here speake I can make it good by many faithfull and honest witnesses The 8 injury is to all the Reformed Churches in publishing complaints against such lawfull authoritie as is exercised by them Answ 1. VVhen M. Paget by the Scriptures hath prooved the matters in controversy betweene us lawfull viz. the power of the Classis and his riffrafe Baptisme then I will by Gods grace acknowledge my fault herein till then I shall alwayes professe that hee hath borne false witnesse against his neighbour A thing in his writings too common with him 2. Observe here how Mr. Paget professeth plain Brownisme and condemneth the Church of England and that hee doth so I proove it thus All Reformed Churches use a Classicall gouvernment so saith hee But the English Church useth no such Therefore it is no Reformed Church and so consequentlie false VVhat Apologie hee can make to vindicate his reputation I yet know not but it may be wee shall see something of it in his next booke The 9 injury that hee taxeth me with is to all that seeke Reformation and desire the same Discipline that is practised in these Churches this their Booke being a stumbling block in the way Answ 1. I suppose by the seekers here after his Discipline hee meaneth the English non-conformists Now in this hee abuseth them and his Readers too for howsoever they would willingly shake off the Prelates yoke notwithstanding it is not to come under his Classicall authoritie but rather to erect that single uncompounded Policie which hee seemes to gibe at whereby particular Congregations are made to be independent Not standing under any other Ecclesiasticall authority out of themselves And that this is so I can proove it by many testimonies In a certain booke set out under the name of all the unconformable Ministers in the Realme they write thus Wee confine * Protestat King suprem pag. 12.13 and bind all Ecclesiasticall power within the limits onely of one particular Congregation Holding that the greatest Ecclesiasticall power ought not to streitch beyond the same and that it is an arrogating of Princelie supremacie * Marke this for any Ecclesiasticall person or persons to take upon themselves Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction over many Churches And a little after Wee hold that those Ecclesiasticall persons that make claime to greater power and authoritie then this especiallie that make claime Iure Divino * This Mr. Paget doth of power and Iurisdiction to meddle with other Churches then that one Congregation of which they are or ought to be members doe usurpe upon the supremacie of the civill Magistrate c. The Refuter of D. Downames Sermon handleth this point largely and prooveth from the Scriptures and best writers that every particular Congregation Repl 1. l. 3. p. 185. l. 1. part 2. p. 22 23.68 ought to haue absolute gouvernment in it self and that no Officer by vertue of his office may meddle with the affaires and matters of any Church except his owne To these wee will add D. Fulke a man famous and of rare learning in his Learned Discours of Ecclestasticall Gouvernment hee saith There ought to be in every Church an Elde ship Pag. 84. which ought to have the hearing examination and determining of all * Note this matters pertayning to the Discipline and Gouvernment of that Congregation I could name many more but it needs not specially because I shall have occasion to speake againe of the thing in another place Yet this may not be forgotten VVhereas there are many hundreds of our Country-men in New-England they have not erected there any Classicall Gouvernment but every particular Church exerciseth her owne I say within her self wholy which is a sure argument to proove that the foreward professours in England approove not of this kind of gouvernment here pleaded for although hee would feigne haue his Reader to thinke so 2. Whereas hee saith that our Booke is a stumbling block laid in the way of Reformation I suppose it will appeare so farre otherwise as that hee himself will be found chiefly in fault this way And therefore I wish him to be well advised what hee writes hereafter least the reasons which hee layeth downe for his gouverning of many Churches be applyed by the Popes men unto the Hierarchy and to as good purpose too And truely I cannot see but this may well be so considering that both their Disciplines tend unto the taking away of the Churches Right the difference is In the Hierarchy one doth it In the Classes more notwithstanding in this they joyne together viz. in depriving Churches of their due and lawfull power Tenthly hee saith I am injurious to all that are grieved for the offence arising by this fact hee being the cause of their grief Answ 1. If any grieve to see errour discovered the truth cleared good men justifyed unjust doers reprooved it is their fault and sinne But the writings published by me serve for this end and use 2. If any haue given occasion unto others of sorrow it is principally himself in that he hath by unlawfull meanes keept from us the profitable preaching of the mord whereby wee should have bene much furthered in the way to life and glory
hold for an infallible maxime that to reforme corruptions and abuses in states a better course cannot be taken then to reduce things to their primitive originall Hereto agrees D. VVhites * Of the Church l. 2. pag. 49. saying The first in any kind or sort of things is truest and best 4. If it should be granted that particular Congregations by this kind of gouvernment shall haue peace profit credit and other worldly respects yet this is no sufficient reason to induce them to embrace it For 1. wee must seeke peace by lawfull meanes 2. Outward quietnes is not alwayes necessary for the Church the Truth is like unto Camomill the more you presse it downe the faster it groweth and spreadeth further and smelleth sweeter 3. Religion can subsist without externall peace I say safely in the midst of contentions 4. It is better to want this freedom of which hee speaketh holding fast the truth then in sinne to haue it and perish for it 5. It is a rule among Lawers ‡ Bartol Distinct pag. 2. that publicke profit must not take place against Law this holds firme in all cases of Religion To conclude then in Nazianzens * De Moderat in disceptat Servand words Let no man be wiser then is meet not more just then the Law more bright then the sun streaghter then the rule nor pretend more obedience then God requireth c. This hee speakes of Discipline Another of his reasons is this Pag 72.153 The power for which hee standeth hath bene determined limited and agreed upon in many Nationall Synods And all Reformed Churches use it Answ 1. It is a received opinion among the Learned that Councills may erre yea and often haue as I could shew in many particulars Besides who knowes not that almost all the Fathers as they are called were infected with the errour of Millenaries And almost all the Greeke writers and Latine with the doctrine of free-will merits invocation on the Saints and the like And therefore as one well sayth ‡ Sibrand Lubbert de princ Christ l. 7. c. 10. p. 694. Wee must not conclude a thing to be Apostolicall because the Church observeth it And to the same effect write some Papists * Tho Aqui in quod l. 9. Art ult Abb. Panor de elect c. significat 2. These testimonies are all humaine and therefore it is enought if wee say with our Lord ‡ Mat. 19.8 From the beginning it was not so Or as hee sayd once Woman what have I to doe with thee So in matters of faith what haue wee to doe with men Away with mens writings sayth Augustine let the voyce of God sound unto us Let the Booke of God come amongst us Let us heare what Christ saith and what the truth speaketh For our judgements and expositions without these witnesses have no credit sayth Origen 3. This reason is the same which the Papists use viz. the Decrees a Whitak cont 4. Qu. 5. c. 10. Sarav de Tripl Episc in Prolog Io. Ainsw Large writing 2. of Synods the opinions of the Fathers the custome of men and practise of the Church But marke what answer our Protestant Divines make to it No b D. Rain Confer p. 195.257.459 D. Bilson to the Semina part 4. pag. 360.300.301.299 D. More Apol. p. 2. c. 14. Casaub Epi. ad Per. Car. p. 32.33 humaine proofe is sure in Divinity truth is not to be tried by consent of Fathers Never shall they perswade us any thing in matter of Religion which they cannot proove by Moyses and the Prophets Make us good proofes out of Scriptures Otherwise if ye cite not onely 9 but 9 skore Fathers wee regard it not Now this answer will serve me as well seeing Mr. Paget and they doe use one and the same reasoning Another objection which hee hath against us is Because wee haue not framed our accusation and protestation against him before this present seeing the practise hath continued among us many yeares c. Answ Formy part I never knew that our Congregation was in such deepe bondage untill Mr. Hookers troubles began but thought verely that our owne Eldership with the Brethren jointly together had full power among themselves to practise every ordinance of God And the thing specially which induced me so to thinke was his owne words * Arâ—ow against sep pag. 116. writen to Mr. Ainsworth reporting how hee was first made our Minister hee sayth The Dutch Eldership in this City being desired hath for their counsell and help in his ordination deputed three of their Brethren to assist us in this busines c. this they did not as assuming authoritie ‡ Note to themselves over us but in our name and by our request Being now established when as of late another Minister was called unto our Congregation wee used not their help herein as before but his ordination was performed by our owne Ministerie and Eldership without them If the Classis assumed not then any authority unto themselves over us how comes it to passe that they doe it now Or how will it hang together that their power is ancient and yet 20 or 30 yeares past they used it not This to me seemes grosse contradiction and that hee eates his owne words as Saturne did his children But I gesse what hath caused him to tell two contrary tales namely the difference of the people against whom hee hath writen The first were Separatists and therefore no marvaile though against them hee pleaded for a free Congregation for hee well knew that unlesse hee went this way to worke hee should fall with dishonour in the controversie between them The other are the oppressed and burthened members of the English Church in Amsterdam Now to keepe these under their burden and oppression hee sees that hee must let goe his former hold and on the contrary say wee are not a free Congregation but stand under another Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of our selves Thus a good wit will serve a disputant in good stead for by it if hee list hee can as the Poëts fable of their Proteus turne himself into all shapes Like him who having made an excellent speach in the commendation of justice afterwards spake as wittily to the contrary shewing that there was no justice at all in the world Or like a Gentleman of whom I haue heard that in an Assembly of States such as wee call Parliaments was absolutely the best speaker yet nothing respected and that for a most sufficient reason which was this They knew full well hee could speake as well and as moovingly to that which was quite contrary And I willingly professe that Mr. Paget hath a rare faculty this way to turne a thing which way hee will and make it say either I or no or both when hee pleaseth Notwithstanding this I must tell him the very thing which hee speakes off touching Mr. Robinsons Booke is now true concerning his owne former writing It is sicke of King Iehorams incurable desease Arrow pag. 59. the guttes of it fall out day by day Yea hee openlie pluckes out some of bowells thereof with his owne hands There are some other objections of the like nature which hee useth against us partly to disgrace our persons partly our cause as that wee doe not agree among our selves touching the due power of the Church That the practise which wee stand for is Brownisme c. Answ Such cavillations the a Celsus pag. 802. Lactant. l. 4. c. ult Isod Pelus Epist 90. Heathens haue used sometimes against Christian Religion so Papists b Bellar. de not Eccl. against Protestants and the like they c Brone Serm. pag. 103.104 Casend Answ to Abstract p. 210. c. Whitg p. 888. Loe comp cha p. 47. D. Bridg. l. p. 134. against Reformists Now I will not stand to make any particular answer hereto because the folly and vanity of it is sufficiently shewed by others d Iew. Def. Apol. p. 3.8.2.1 Whitak cont 4. qu. 5. c. 8. Sutclift de Eccl. p. 109. D. Mort. Apol 1. l. 2. who haue had occasion hereto-fore to reply unto such idle objections This onely for conclusion I desire may be noted that whereas hee seekes to disgrace Christs Gouvernment and to haue his owne honoured and embraced in this hee doth as one said in Tully of Hortensis when hee immoderately praysed eloquence that hee would have lift her up to heaven that hee himself might have gone up with her So I perceive Mr. Paget would faine haue the Classicall Discipline advanced that hee by it might haue worldly credit also Ioh. 13.17 If ye know these things blessed are ye if ye doe them FINIS ERRATA For were read where pag. 3. l. 13. For fayling read faylings p. 4. l. 22. For partialty read partiality p. 10. l. 33. For contended read contented p. 12. l. 15. For take read talke p. 15. l. 26. For word read world p. 33. l. 27. For conquest read conquer p. 51. l. 22. For notwithstand read notwithstanding p. 74. l. 15. For touching read touch-stone p. 77. l. 25.