CATHOLICK CHARITIE COMPLAINING AND MAINTAINING That Rome is unchaâ—itable to sundry Eminent parts of the Catholick Church and especially to Protestants and is therefore Uncatholick And so A Romish Book called CHARITIE MISTAKEN though undertaken by a Second is it selfe a Mistaking By F. ROUS OPTATUS Lib. 2. Quia noluerunt fratres agnoscere nullam habuerunt charitatem LONDON Printed by R. Young for Iohn Bartlet at the signe of the gilt Cup neer S. Austins gate 1641. REcensui Librum hunc cui Titulus CATHOLICK CHARITY in quo nihil reperio fidei orthodoxae aut bonis moribus contrarium quo minus summâ cum utilitate Typis mandetur JOH HANSLEY R. P. Episc. Lond. Capel Domest Decemb. 2. 1640. The Publisher to the READER IT might well have beene wished that the growth of Romish errours and superstitions the complaint of this time had not made this Worke too seasonable True it is though it doe but now see the light yet it came to the birth before any other Answer of Charity Mistaken was knowne to the Authour it came indeed to the birth but there was no strength to deliver the judgement of those times not giving way to any other besides those whose Answers have beene already made publick But though they have run before like Cushi this like Ahimaaz yet perchance not altogether without tidings may run after and with Ahimaaz it may make the better speede because with him it goes the way of the Plaine it goes a plaine way speaking plainely the Protestant Shiboleth and it useth plainnesse and evidence of speech in which way it is likely to meet with most Readers Neither doth it come altogether without tidings for it brings with it the tidings of Truth and Love and by both a remedy against error and uncharitablenesse And as it is a worke of charity so is it sutably fitted with charitable expressions for it doth not take up those sharpe arrowes which in these Concertations too often are shot at mens persons besides the Marke of the Matter True it is that where the Writer doth put his faults into the matter of his Booke and doth publish them of purpose to have them seene and by the sight of them to make others faulty there it will bee a duty of obedience as well as of necessary providence for the Readers safety to take notice of them Controversies certainely looke like breaches of love and therefore the Authour hath not been much in love with them But if love will bee lost except it be kept by a Controversie there the Controversie that keepes it is a worke of love To strive against uncharitablenesse that it may be removed and charity put in the roome of it is an act of charity and this charity is the businesse of this work The Reader may also take notice that divers passages not insisted on by the other are here examined because this worke surveyeth the whole Booke which it answers more particularly then the other There hath indeed come forth a Reply in defence of Charity Mistaken But both the one and the other turne mainely on these two hinges That there must be an entire unity of faith in all Truths revealed by God and proposed by the Church And That if unity were to be held by the faith of Fundamentals a perfect and uniforme List should be given of those Fundamentals Now these two hinges being taken off in this Book I hope it may give a fall to the maine matter of them both And whereas the Replyer strives to divide our unity by this Engine That some Protestants directly wittingly and willingly dis-beleeve what others do beleeve to bee testified by the Word of God and herein is no difference between Fundamentall and not Fundamentall It is rejoyned for a defence against this Engine of division That if herein be no difference betweene the one and the other in Fundamentals there is no proofe that they are not united members in the body of Christ For hee that wittingly and willingly dis-beleeves that which the other beleeves to bee testified by the Word of God may know as the terme wittingly seems to import that the point dis-beleeved is not testified by the Word of God and so hee may bee safe and is still one with Christ and his Members Againe the other who beleeves it to bee testified by the Word of God may bee deceived yet the point not being fundamentall his errour may not divide him from the other which is a member of Christ. Indeed if a Protestant should know a point to be testified by the Word of God and then dis-beleeve it that might prove him not to be in the Body of Christ but first This would bring him within the difference of Fundamentals and not Fundamentals contrary to the Replyers Affirmation for it is a maine Fundamentall to beleeve God whom that man beleeves not who wittingly and willingly denyes the Word of God And secondly It is meerly inconsistent and incompossible That hee who beleeves Fundamentals should wittingly and willingly dis-beleeve what hee knows the God of Truth hath spoken And if out of weaknesse errour and ignorance hee doth not beleeve that God hath spoken it this ignorance if it be not in Fundamentals doth not inforce a disunion from other Members of the Body of Christ. Thus the Replyers objected Not-beleeving either falls under Fundamentals and then his case is not rightly put or else it falls not under Fundamentals and then it doth not conclude a disunion betweene Protestants This having received my selfe I impart to the Reader with a Prayer that in reading this Worke hee may bee enlightned with that Spirit of Truth which alone can kindly discover both the Mystery of godliness and the Mystery of iniquity and that the same Spirit may hold him in the one and keep him from the other CATHOLICK CHARITIE CHAP. I. Of Christian Love and Peace SECT I. Concerning the Excellency Necessity and other motives of Christian Love with an exhortation to the imbracing of it THE Spouse of Christ Jesus when shee shines in Love shee is amiable in Beauty precious in the eye of her Husband powerfull with God her Father prosperous in her owne spirituall health and vigour and prepared for her consummate marriage in celestiall glory Her husband is God and God is love and God cannot but love that love which is like himselfe And that hee may love his Spouse for her love when shee becomes one Spirit with him by this unity of Spirit hee gives her an uniformity of love the oyntment of Christ Jesus the Head floweth down into all his members and breatheth love into them and as farre as his life goes so far goeth his love therefore no love no life in Christ Jesus Agreeably the beloved Disciple and an especiall Teacher of love having shewed that the new-birth brings love with life he fitly addeth Hee that loveth not abideth in death No wonder then if the great Master and Lover of this Disciple
having that saving faith the Romists shew want of charity in damning those who are saved Hee was againe out of the way in bringing his owne Romists into schisme and damnation by dividing them from Protestants which have that one saving faith And now he goes further out of the way in removing the reasons that may make for unity though by unity with Protestants Romists may avoid uncharitablenesse schisme and damnation so it seemes hee is so earnest for division and dis-union that to attaine it he will hazzard both charity and salvation to his owne fellow Romists as a high price and farre above the value of that which hee would purchase though it were the richest jewell in the world Yet on hee goes upon this adventure And whereas differences amongst Romists are brought forth to make Romists more equall to differences among Protestants or to some differences betweene Protestants and Romists and likewise to make Romists thinke there may be a spirituall unity notwithstanding some differences because notwithstanding their owne differences they affirme there is an unity among themselves this the Author thinkes too peaceable and therefore strives to take it out of the way Toward this he is willing to deny that there are such differences amongst Romists and he strives to shew that they agree even in those things wherein they differ But differ they doe and strong evidences wee have for it which may hereafter be produced Neither indeede their Poeticall Heade of unity the Pope nor any one man on earth can make the whole Church to bee inwardly of one minde and soule but onely that Lord and maker of Spirits by his owne Spirit his true and onely Vicar For that one Spirit enlightning and guiding the spirits of men with one faith of one word delivered by the ministery directed and enabled by the same one spirit can onely make a true reall internall and spirituall unity And accordingly S. Paul leading us to the unity of faith thus rightly ordereth his words toward unity One Spirit one Lord one Faith And thus hee goes on and sheweth how this one spirit of one Lord which inwardly workes this unity of faith in the Lords body outwardly also concurres to the working of it by the gifts given to the ministery For this working without in the ministery and inabling them to teach one and the same doctrine of saving faith and inwardly working in the hearts and soules of Christs members these members are brought into the unity of faith and so into one body of Christ and as in this body of Christ there are different members of different measures and capacities by the different gifts of the spirit so these different capacities doe not reach or containe one measure of divine truth Christ the Foundation and Head is made knowne to all his members for by this knowledge they become his members and so have they all unity in so much divine truth as knits them to Christ But by reason of their different measures some attaining such holy truths of which others are short there must needs bee a difference in the apprehension of those truths to which some attaine and others doe not come yet in all is a settled desire and purpose to beleeve the whole truth revealed by God if it be also revealed to them that it is the truth of God And so whatsoever force was in the Champions speech That true spirituall faith beleeveth the whole Body of divine doctrine makes not against us but for us and much more for us then for them For we upon the right motive which is God speaking in his word doe beleeve plainly whatsoever we conceive and what we doe not conceive wee beleeve in purpose and intention And thus have wee perfect unity while in the fundamentalls we have an actuall unity of faith and in the lesser points an unity of purpose and will But in this true and kindly unity one Spirit not one Pope doth cause inwardly one faith And againe that one spirit giving gifts to men not to one man outwardly bringeth to the inward unity of faith And indeede that none but the spirit the true vicar of Christ can make this solid spirituall and internall unity it appeares by the confession of the very Romish craft which hath coyned the Pope to be the head of unity For that they might make and prove him to be such they have put him into the place of the holy Ghost and made him the Vicar of Christ accordingly they say that the holy Ghost speaks by him and so the speech of the holy Ghost being infallible verity is a right ground of unity A foule errour and without ground of Scripture which never since the departure of Christ from earth tyed the holy Ghost to one man so that from him the whole Church should fetch Oracles and resolutions But indeed it is a high and blasphemous imposture which puts the Pope in place of the holy Ghost And when this man speakes it pronounceth of him as the people of Herod The voice of God and not of Man And how little this differs from Montanisme I wish Romists would consider who reduced the promise of sending the Comforter Christs Vicar as Tertullian cals him to be performed in Montanus And the very same place doe the Romists apply to the Pope which was applied to Montanus but yet thus it appeares That even they that erre in the application yet hold truth in the position That the holy Ghost is the true root of union though erroneously and blasphemously they put the Pope into his roome and make the voyce of the Pope to bee the voice of the holy Ghost And surely the Pope himselfe plainely shewes that hee doubts his owne spirituall power of making unity and therefore hee flyes to the grosse and materiall instruments of unity the Sword and Faggot And so calling downe fire on those that obey him not if he have any spirit it seems it is not that spirit which Christ said was the Evangelicall spirit of the Apostles but rather of him which is called the Destroyer And indeed this device of man to make unity of faith by one man called the Pope being thus thrust into the place of the Spirit of God as it proceeded from the spirit of errour so hath it made unity in errour as the last best of Popes Gregory the Great did in a manner prophecie but it never will make unity in solide and universall Faith and Truth for the beleevers in this counterfeit head of unity have both gotten from him an unity in many errors and have beene left in many great and weighty differences whereof there is little hope of resolving them into union the sight whereof turnes our eyes from this humane and fictitious Head of unitie to the true roote and meanes of unity set forth by the Apostle And because this Author strives to put away from mens eyes the differences which arise under this false Head of union let us shew him
saved But how dangerous or deadly soever their faults were they fall directly on the Popish faction both in point of heresie schisme for they hold the like heresie to the Donatists That the Church is onely in the Popes party and accordingly by uncharitable schisme they cut off all those from their communion that are not of this party And now hee comes back againe to Irenaeus as if hee had found some new matter in him Nay Irenaeus whom I named before implies not onely that it is necessary for a true Christian Catholick to differ in no one point of the doctrine or faith from other Christians but hee must withall not beleeve any thing after a different manner that is to say upon a different motive from that for which it is beleeved by other Christians But what doth Irenaeus say being thus called back again He saith nothing for our Author only saith that hee implies just as St. Cyprian before was made to comply But what doth he imply That it is necessary for a true Christian Catholick to differ in no one point of the doctrine or faith from other Christians But is there any such sentence or implying in this Chapter Surely I doubt this Cavalier delt too much upon trust and hee whom hee trusted too much upon deceit I have read over the Chapter and can finde no such implying But I finde that which wee often object against Romists Traditions Why should wee leave the doctrine of the Prophets the Lord and his Apostles and hearken to those men when they tell us their errors The other inference from Irenaeus That a Christian must not beleeve by a different motive from that by which it is beleeved of other Christians is a point that is mortall to Popery For they making the Popes word or authority the motive of their faith herein doe differ from the motive of faith received by the Christians in Grecia Armenia and AEthiopia and so transgresse most dangerously and I doubt fundamentally against this rule produced and approved by the Author as from Irenaeus though there I cannot finde it And now after a just examination of these Allegations I cannot but inferre that There appeares a manifest losse of the cause when the places produced for proofe of it prove it not So that the Authors conclusion being no way made good by his allegations it is left still solitary forsaken and unproved And whereas hee saith For the present it may suffice to have proved the necessity of perfect unity in the Church wee must needs reply That hee hath most imperfectly proved the necessity of so perfect an unity And for the other piece of his conclusion That indeed no reason can bee given why if there bee allowed any more true Churches then one there should not be admitted aswell two thousand as two I acknowledge with him that not onely no reason can bee given of this but also of the Cavaliers speaking of no reason in this point For it is not denyed by us that there is but one true Church and if you make two you may make two thousand But wee deny that every little difference makes two Churches of one and this neither the Author hath proved neither doe his citations suffice to prove but let him here looke to himselfe and his fellow Romists whether they bee not in danger of making two thousand Churches who have made a second Church called the Church vertuall the Pope yea a third Church the Pope and his mysticall body for he is a mystery also but of iniquity which two Churches many eminent members of the Catholicke Church deny to bee that one true Church whereof they are members In the meane time Romish uncharitablenesse in damning Protestants remaines still as a proved truth seeing this Authors proofes for an imaginary perfect unity by which he undertooke to prove it an untruth doe not prove this unity and no such unity proved no untruth proved so they are still uncharitable and Protestants doe yet speake truth when they affirme their uncharitablenesse CHAP. VII A consideration of the Cavaliers fifth Chapter wherein to the great danger of the Papacy that is proved by Scriptures and Fathers which wee doe not deny That out of one true Church of Christ no salvation is to be found SECT I. This ground yeelded doth not produce any discharge whereby the Romists may be freed from uncharitablenesse in damning Protestants THe Cavalier fights on our side and against his fellowes wee are yet left in the Church notwithstanding any thing he hath said or alledged and he hath yet left salvation to us and uncharitablenesse to his owne Papacy And now we being left in the Church he goes about to prove that out of this Church there is no salvation So upon the matter hee proves that out of the Protestants Church there is no salvation But then what will become of the Papacy which will not be of one Church with saved Protestants And indeed except it were to speake for us and against the Papacy what need is there of these proofes for a point not denied by us For wee give him this at first onely for the asking That out of the onely true Church the body of Christ there is no salvation Yet will hee needs goe on to fight for a point which we confesse yea withall to fight for us against himselfe And indeede even where he would seem to fight against us hee doth it so loosely and far-off that it is hard to discerne how his blowes doe concerne us Let us see his first onset Since the Church of Christ our Lord is so truely one and but onely one it followes easily enough that no salvation can be had out of this Church and that every Heresie or Schisme is sufficient to deprive any soule thereof but yet neverthelesse to the end that men may bee wholly left without excuse or rather that they may bee the better warned to take heed in time of those miseries which otherwise they are to feele for all eternity I will strengthen also this truth by the Authoritie of some few Scriptures and Fathers of the Primitive Church for so by degrees it will easily and of it selfe appeare that wee Catholicks are not faulty in that wherewith wee are so much charged I confesse it is hard to finde out this Authors order and way his end or drift we know but the way by which he would come to it is hard to bee seene I am sure hitherto hee hath not made good his first steps in it and yet hee would seeme to proceed as if hee came neerer to his end by degrees when yet hee is still on his threshold for first though the Church of Christ be but one and it doe follow that no salvation can be had out of that one Church this as hath beene noted is no degree to the cleering of Papists uncharitablenesse in damning Protestants Againe it doth not follow that every Heresie in the Popish sense is
sufficient to deprive any soule thereof and so Protestants may still suffer a false charge of Heresie to bee laid on them by Romists and yet bee sure enough of salvation And thus not any degree is yet made good toward the freeing of this charge of uncharitablenesse justly laid on the Romists So that the matter stands still though the Author moving his pen thinkes that the matter moves with it And for the Allegations that follow which seeme to labour for these two points That out of the Church is no salvation And that Heresie and Schisme doe put men out of the Church these being proved no way hurt us or help the Romists but helpe us and hurt the Romists among whom wee have found most fearfull and bloudy Schisme and wee may discover damnable Heresies but they can never prove that Protestant doctrine maintaines either Heresie or Schisme but by that which they call Heresie as relying wholy on Christs merits and not our owne for redemption and worshiping God in spirit and truth and not worshiping Images c. wee serve the God of our Fathers SECT II. The Allegations of Scriptures and Fathers made by the Cavalier are more forcible to exclude the Papists out of the Church then the Protestants against whom they are produced THat being yeelded which this Author indeavours to prove I know not what to doe with his Allegations but onely to turne them against Romists Therefore we very well allow the place alledged out of Esay and say it makes against the Pope who doth not submit himselfe to the Church in a generall Councell and so doth the place of Matthew formerly alledged and answered upon the same Reason And we very well allow those places of Paul to Titus and Timothy as making much against the Pope and his adhaerents and say that they give us just ground of avoiding him being Hereticall and Schismaticall after many admonitions But this Author did wisely in not naming Timothy in his margent but Titus though hee alledge these words out of 1. Tim. 4.1 2. That they attend to doctrines of Divels and spirits of Errour That they are Lyers and Hypocrites lest the Reader looking to the place might finde this which followeth Forbibbing to marry and commanding to abstaine from meats which wee know that Protestancie doth not but if Papistry doe then who are now his Hereticks Hypocrites and Lyers excluded from the Church and so from salvation Hee did also very discreetly in his namelesse alledging some pieces out of 2. Tim. 3. where is mention of Iamnes and Iambres and to make use of the verse fore-going having the form of godlinesse and the verses following That they are ever learning but without attaining to the knowledge of the truth but left out the middle verse which is this Of this sort are they which creep into houses and lead captive silly Women laden with sins and led with divers lusts which words being notable markes of seducers for what reason the Author left them out he best knowes but if wee may beleeve their owne Priest it doth rightly hit with some Romish proselite-makers so that the simple Reader if hee had seene this place wholy alledged might perchance have thought hee had seen in these the very Iamnes and Iambres of these times His last Scripture is out of S. Paul to the Galathians where striving to prove that the word Sects in Latin is Heresies in the Greeke he somewhat Heretically I doubt even when he speaks against Heresie leaves the decreed Latin to follow the Greeke But this being taken for a fault in the Latin let the word be as it is in the Greeke and then to the shame of the Papacy wee read indeed that Heresies are works of the flesh which certainly those are most likely to fall into that strive to set up a fleshly monarchy and to abound in the glory and wealth of the world For such men will sell heaven and truth and the Gospell for a messe of Pottage even for base and transitory vanity It is the sentence of Gods spirit that where is the love of the World there is not the love of God and where is not the love of God there cannot bee the love of the truth and where is not the love of truth there is a giving up to strong delusions to beleeve lyes that they all may bee damned who beleeved not the truth Now among innumerable examples of the Papacies love of the world and preferring temporall greatnesse and wealth above the truth let the lamentable conference betweene Adrian the sixth and the Cardinall be a lively proofe and spectacle where the poore Pope and herein not a Pope and therefore hee did well soone to bee gone speaking of the necessity of reformation There was no consideration of the truth of this necessity but a plaine confutation of whatsoever truth there was in it by the Popes Audit and Exchequer even by worldly profit But the Scriptures thus being lost except onely in making against their owne Papacy hee comes to Fathers not so much to hurt with them as to bee hurt by them Tertullian saith hee affirmeth That Hereticks cannot bee accounted Christians But of what heresies doth hee speake there Of any Protestant opinions He doth not say that any Protestants are hereticks He repeats there a rule of faith as it were the body of a Creed consisting of divers Articles Doe the Protestants deny any of these Articles True it is that of this rule of faith hee saith Nullus habet apud nos quaestiones c. There are no questions among us of this rule but those which Heresies make and doe make Hereticks But wee doe not make question of this rule and so are not made hereticks by it But they doe rather question this rule that bring in another faith the Popes Oracles and new Articles For whereas Tertullian here saith Fides in regula posita est The faith is set downe in that rule which before hee rehearsed the Romists faith is not in that rule For there was not one word of the Pope nor of Christs being under the forme of bread by Transubstantiation but In Coelos ereptum sedere ad dextram Patris misisse vicariam vim Spiritus Sancti qui credentes agat Being taken away into heaven hee doth sit at the right hand of his Father and hee hath sent his Vicar not the Pope but the power of the Holy Ghost which should leade those that beleeve And in the 33. Chapter making an Inventory of certaine Heresies amongst others hee names this which I doubt is some kinne to the Papacie Timotheum instruens Nuptiarum quoque interdictores suggillat He saith That S. Paul instructing Timothy doth condemne the forbidders of marriage Saint Cyprian is next brought in to say that thousand times produced sentence that Out of the Church there is no salvation Hereunto is added that There is no reward of any suffering whatsoever neither is hee a Christian
a more full spectacle of them which may serve to prove that disunion which hee goes about to confute and to confute that union which hee goes about to prove SECT II. Wherein severall heads and springs of division amongst the Papists are opened 1. The controverted Supremacie of the Pope or Councels 2. Their affected ambiguity in deciding controversies 3. The great number of Questions purposely left undecided 4. The opposition betwixt the Preachers and publick Professors of that Church IN the view of this division wee may first take notice That there is an opposition and division even betweene this supposititious Head of unity and his members and even in this radicall and head-point Whether hee be the Head of unity or not for the Head is divided from much of the Body and the Body within it selfe even about the Head The Pope hee will bee above the Councell and the Councell is thought by many to bee above the Pope And this hath beene decided by Councels and by them the Councell was set above the Pope which indeed agrees much better with the Councell in the Acts and with Saint Paul to the Ephesians lately alledged yea it was made hereticall to deny this Supremacy of the Councell above the Pope And if that the Head of unity bee divided into two how can two Heads bring men onenesse yea how can two Heads but divide the Church into two Bodies It is an undeniable truth That two Masters opposing each other can never cause unity in their servants he that is at unity with some fellow-servants by cleaving to the one Master is at division with others that cleave to the other And they that maâ—e the Councell the Head and root of unity as the Councell of Constance and Basil and many that followed them especially in France how must they not needs differ from those that make the Pope to be Head and Lord of unity by a controlling power over the Councell And accordingly in those points which the Councell decreeth as by a supreme power and the Pope againe dissolves as by a supreme power how can Romists be at unity that are divided in the different beliefes of these two Supremacies Even in that point resolved in Basil That it is hereticall to beleeve the Pope not to be subject to the Councell how is it possible that Romists should bee at unity of whom a part beleeves and a part beleeves it not yea each seeme Hereticks thereby unto the other And thus if in the roote of unity there bee division how great is this division and who can shew how ever this division can bee reconciled by Romists For if there be a free Councell no doubt such a Councell will decree the Pope to be subject to it as they have good reason from Scripture and Antiquity But if the Pope be free and may command the Councell who can expect but that the Pope shall judge for himselfe and subject Councels to his headship and infallibility Behold the great Citie divided into great parts and division growing even from their roote of unity Againe many members of this Head of unity are at division about the Popes earthly Supremacy some hold that hee may onely excommunicate Kings and then can doe no more his power being meerly spirituall others hold that after excommunication hee can depose Kings yea cause their subjects to kill them a weighty controversie and hardly to be decided amongst Papists but onely by the unity of Kings agreeing together to depose Popes Againe in some things hee takes power to dispense and in the same things his Doctors say he hath not power to dispense A paterne of which opposition we may plainly and actually see in the Popes Bull of Dispensation to Henry the eighth for marrying his Brothers wife and the Testimonies under Universitie Seales of the Doctors denying him the power of this Dispensation These and the like questions concerning the power of this Head of unity make division betweene the Head and members and make division betweene the members themselves Secondly wee see divisions doe againe arise from this Head of unity because this Head leaves many things of controversie so doubtfully decided in Councels that their very decisions breed controversies And what unity is to be expected from such a Head who by decisions gives occasion of dissentions and leaves division when he sits of purpose in his Chaire under pretence of making unity So wee know Vega and Catharinus against Soto and upon the Popes Decree in the Councell of Trent entred into mighty Controversies and no wonder for it was a speciall craft in that Councell to use such generall words as might be large enough to hold two differing opinions in them and so leave the controversies not reconciled but still at liberty and distance And now againe where is that vaine shift or rather blasphemous abuse of Scripture in saying that Papists by submission to the Popes Church doe captivate themselves to the obedience of Faith and so keepe unity when the Pope having judged and they submitting to his judgement are yet in division What is this but by submitting to their meanes of unity to be still at division If the Head of unity by deciding make division how endlesse and incurable is that division Thirdly This Head of unity leaves divers controversies wholly undecided so that as it hath not been untold by some of his owne hee doth as it were leave strife and division to them In their Schoole writers bee farre more differences then disputations because divers in one disputation and perchance in one neere a thousand disputations yea in some points foure of five severall opinions each confuting one another and these not of light matters only but of many if not of all the Cavaliers prime points The catholick Church Justification of soules Communion of Saints Purgatory Indulgences Yea Doctor Iohn White in his way to the true Church Digr 24. undertaketh to demonstrate that there is no one point denied or affirmed against us wherein Papists doe not vary amongst themselves and of these differences he gives there divers patternes And many more are to bee seene in Bishop Mortons catholick Apologie And this division hath bin so deadly that we read that the Dominicans have charged the Franciscans with heresie and the Franciscans at length had the burning of foure Dominicans Let us hear a strong Dominican and a cathedrall Professor describing the differences of these Romists even to the charging one another with heresie It often fals out that one Divine doth most constantly affirm that he hath a Theologicall demonstration for some point of doctrine and that hee deduceth it by evident consequence from the sacred Scriptures and the traditions of the Fathers But then another on the contrary doth most certainly affirme that hee hath a Theologicall demonstration that this is heresie and an error in faith and that the contrary is deduced from scriptures by evident consequence Hence he saith of the
the point then the Chapter hath been hitherto to the Title You say there are great differences between the Protestants and you about the understanding of the Article of the descent of Christ into Hell and the other of the holy Catholick Church and the Communion of Saints c. But what doe you here talk of differences in understanding fundamentals where the present question is Whether the Protestants doe acknowledge their fundamentalls to bee contained in the Creed For if Protestants declare that their fundamentals are contained in the Creed then your Title is gone which saith That they do not nor dare not declare them And surely it will aske a greater strength and a farre bigger volume then Charity mistaken to prove that Protestants doe not rightly understand the Articles of the Creed But secondly the Authours objection is grounded not onely upon a new but upon a false supposition if his fellow Romists may bee Judges For his supposed proposition is this That all the Articles in the Creed are Fundamentall Now this is different from the first proposall of our opinion That all fundamentall Articles are in the Creed It is also denied by his owne fellowes For though all fundamentall Articles be there yet they say that some Articles that are there may not bee fundamentall or explicitely to be known upon losse of salvation as before hath been shewed out of Vasquez and Azorius Therefore to stand upon a different understanding of those Articles which are denied by your owne men to bee Explicites or doubted is besides the matter But thirdly Do we differ from you in understanding those points What is that to the point undertaken in the end of the last Chapter and promised to be shewed in this That wee differ among our selves in the number of Fundamentalls You are now gone â—â—om our ridiculousnesse by differing in the number of fundamentalls and are come to a ridiculousnesse of your owne by your differing from us in the false understanding of some Articles of the Creed which all your owne Prophets doe not account Fundamentals But you add It is to little purpose to know or confesse that the Creede containes all Fundamentals unlesse there were some certaine way to understand them right This is againe a ranging from shewing our differences among our selves or that wee have not these Fundamentals Yet I answer Wee have a certaine and the best way of understanding them right wee have a learned Ministery endued with gifts from on high which teacheth and preacheth these Fundamentals and the right meaning of them And the right meaning thus taught the Spirit in the hearers doth so discover and certifie the truth of them that the hearers see the Articles to bee Gods truth and not mans And accordingly their faith thus beleeving them resteth on God as the sole Foundation of their faith and this teaching of the Catholick Church wee use commend and allow But that The single Article of the holy Catholick Church should containe the reason of all our faith fundamentally seemes to mee an high kinde of Blasphemie And this blasphemous doctrine as wee have before shewed is the very spirit of Popery or Antichrist which sets up the Pope in Gods place and makes his beleevers truely Papists or Antichristians And this great offence and mysterie of iniquitie carryeth Papists by throngs into the Land of darknesse and into this secret of theirs the soules of the saved may not enter True it is that God useth the service of the Ministers or if you will of the Church in publishing the Articles of faith but no other Foundation of supernaturall faith there is but God himselfe though speaking by man unto man the Fundamentality of our faith passeth through man that is the instrument and resteth wholly upon God But saith hee If wee understand it otherwise the Scripture it selfe speakes of particular errours which are damnable in them by whom they are imbraced and yet they are not at all against any expresse Doctrine of the Creed As namely where Saint Paul calls it a Doctrine of Divels to forbid marriage and meates c. I answer first That the Authour hereby proves that which wee deny not and disproves not that which hee saith wee affirme For the point is not Whether there bee any damnable errours besides those that are against some expresse doctrine of the Creede But Whether there bee in the Creede those fundamentall points which being truely beleeved will cause unity with Christ the Head and unity with his Body the Church Other errours against other Truths in Scripture not fundamentall wee acknowledge there are many and proceeding from the Divell the Father of Lyes and in themselves damnable to such as hold not the true Foundation Christ Jesus by beleeving Fundamentals And it is to bee feared that such are many of those true Papists whose foundation is the Pope But otherwise they may bee rather damnable in themselves then actually damning to those who by infirmities hold them and by beleeving fundamentals are in Christ Jesus to whom there is no condemnation Secondly not onely Fathers in their Rules of faith but the Romists themselves doe not place the lawfulnesse of meates and marriage among their chiefe Heads of Christianitie or Explicites and Fundamentals and therefore this Authour doth ill require of us that which hee cannot obtaine of his fellowes Wherefore let him first make this objection against them and when hee hath their Answer then let him take it for us But being unhappily as well as impertinently fallen into the mention of these damnable errours hee saw that as soone as they were brought in they looked at least asquint on the Church of Rome and claymed kindred of her And therefore hee thought that there was need of an Apologie to put off this kindred and acquaintance Which by the way is not to bee understood of the chastity and fasts of the Catholick Church as Protestants doe most perversely affirme which knowes that those things are lawfull but that yet it is most gratefull to God when his servants for his love deprive themselves of those delâ—ghts But of the Heresies of the Manichâ—es as Saint Augustine doth expressely declare who forbad both marriage and meates as being abominable and impure through the institution thereof which they said was derived from a certaine second ill conditioned god of their owne making But this nor all the water in the Sea will wash away all the kindred betweene Romists and these errours For though Saint Augustine may apply this Prophecie to the Manichees yet may hee not also apply them to the Montanists Tertullian himselfe acknowledging that they have beene taxed out of this very place And if to the Montanists why not to those Romists who with Durandus maintaine a curse and so an impurity of flesh and cleannesse of fish who also forbid marriage to Priests which this place plainly condemneth And whereas this Authour talkes of voluntary deprivation it is certaine that