Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	bishop_n	church_n	succession_n	1,636	5	10.2155	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B22558	The Popish labyrinth wherein is made manifest, that the Papists are entangled in the fundamental article of their faith, that the church cannot erre / written in Dutch by ... Dr. Simon Episcopius, unto which is added, The life and death of the author ; as also, The life and death of James Arminius, both of them famous defenders of God	Episcopius, Simon, 1583-1643.; Bertius, Petrus, 1565-1629. Oratio in obitum reverendi & clarissimi viri D. Jacobi Arminii. English.; Chardon de Courcelles, Etienne, 1705-1775? Short and compendious history of Simon Episcopius.	1673 (1673)	Wing E3163	56,195	122

same time with him He that considers these Things without Prejudice ought to be induced to believe that those who endeavour to defend or shelter themselves under Antiquity and Succession do involve themselves in a Labyrinth in which one may easily be intangled but hardly nay nor indeed hardly be disintangled or loosed CHAP. X. That Truth is to be preferred before all Antiquity and Succession whatsoever BUt granting that any one could prove this Antiquity and Succession What will be evinced from thence as to the chief Point of the Matter Nothing at all For Antiquity and Succession of Persons being proved yet the Question concerning Truth will still remain If Antiquity and Succession be not joyned with Truth what I pray do they make for the proving of this Business Antiquity is not the Cause of Truth much less Succession And if Antiquity and Succession ought necessarily to be joyned with Truth then the Truth is first and chiefly to be known which whilest it is unknown so long a man hangs in Suspence Even as if a man should find Money which he certainly knows was coined many Ages before yet remains in doubt whether that Money be made of good Metal or no. Antiquity doth wholly differ from Goodness Nor doth a naughty Person cease to be naught because he is old Not every ancient Custom is good And this is the Cause Why the Fathers discoursing of true Antiquity and Succession would have us chiefly to Mind that Succession which is in Conjuction with the genuine Doctrine and Truth Especially when we have to do with those that reject the Scripture either in Part or in whole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Gregory Nazianzen i. e. For the one is a being of the same Mind or Judgment and to sit on the same Throne The other is to be of a contrary Opinion or Judgment and to sit on a contrary Throne The one hath the Name the other the Truth of Succession And Ambrose saith Qui Petri Fidem-non habet is nihil à Petro haereditario Jure obtinet ac frustra gloriatur de Petri Successione That is He that hath not Peter's Faith he inheriteth nothing from Peter and boasteth in vain of his Succeeding of Peter This thing is so clear that even the most learned Jesuit Cardinal Bellarmine proveth the same acknowledging both these 1. That the Argument concerning Succession is not brought by his Party to prove that that Church wherein is the right of Succession is therefore to be accounted the true Church but onely to prove that that is not the Church where there is not Succession And 2. That Antiquity and continued Succession doth nothing at all avail the Grecian or at least the Constantinopolitan nay nor all your Patriarchal Churches to prove that they are a true Church because there have been sometimes amongst them Bishops that have been heretical whose Thread therefore of Succession hath been broken and cut off From hence it most clearly follows that though Succession be already proved yet the main Question concerning Truth doth remain still For if when Succession is proved it cannot infallibly be gathered and concluded that that Church is the true Church in whose Hands the Succession is And if farther it ought to appear for certain that no Heresies or heretical Bishops have broken off the Succession Reason it self dictates that Succession is proved in vain or at least to no great Profit unless we be thorowly informed concerning the Truth For whilest the Truth is unknown it is impossible to know whether any thing favour of Heresie or no. But who shall shew us the Truth Or who shall most fully assure us thereof Shall the true Church But where and which is it It cannot be For when Succession of Persons is proved it is not yet certain and undoubted that that Church wherein is Succession hath Truth on its side or hath been alwayes free from Heresie and by Consequence hath belonging to it the Right and Power to point out the true Church What Church therefore shall it be that shall infallibly shew us and say that this is true that that on the contrary is Heretical For the Church that wants Succession according to the Jesuits cannot do it nor the Church in which is Succession as is manifest from the precedent Grounds What then What End is there It is impossible for a Papist to untye this Knot To which I add this over and above Suppose that no heretical Bishops have interven'd or stept in among those that have succeeded but such who as we have said have by Force Faction and popular Tumult by Gifts and Bribes thrust themselves into the Apostolical Seat where I pray will be the Succession Must we indeed believe that holy and saving Truth may better consist with these nefarious Wickednesses than with Heresie and Errour Nay rather if farther it be found in Histories that at one Time and that indeed for fifty or eighty Years together there have been two or three Popes the one of which expunged the other out of the Catalogue of Christians call'd him in Reproach Heretick and Antichrist pronounced him an unlawful Pope cut off two of his Predecessors fingers drew up out of the Earth Bodies already buried and having shamefully abused their Ashes cast them into the Tyber all which three Popes sometimes together have been condemned and degraded and taken out of the Number of Christians by an universal Council as false and unlawful Popes as Hereticks and ungodly Villains by whom notwithstanding there were many Bishops and Clergie men ordained what End or Bounds of Succession will the Thread of Connection find For if it be said for Examples sake That that Pope which in the Times of the Council of Constance was by common Votes substituted in the room of those three Popes which were deposed by the said Council is to be accounted for the true Pope who succeeded in the Room of the last that deceased lawfull Pope the Apostolical Sea being in the Interim vacant and usurped by Force he will fall into a new Labyrinth for that many of the Popish Doctors and Bellarmine by Name and all the Jesuits do determine and urge that this Council is so far to be judged for not lawful in that it decreed that the Council was above the Pope because it was not approved of either by the Pope that is that most impious Knave and Villain John the twentie fourth or twentie third who had called that Council and was by the Sentence of the same degraded or by the Pope whom this Council constituted in his stead For if this Council in that Respect be not to be counted for lawful how then shall a lawful Succession be proved Had then this Council been in this Respect lawful if that Knave and Varlot had approved of the same This is shameful to be spoken and more shameful to affirm that therefore this Council was not lawful because it was nor approved of by him Or had it then been

lawful if the succeeding Pope had approved of the same But now forsooth it shall be unlawful because the Pope that was made by this Council said not of himself and those like him that he was subject to the Council but on the contrary Lucifer-like maintained that he was above the Council Howbeit it is altogether credible that the Decree of the Council was approved of by Him before he was chosen for Pope Who here sees not a Circle of Absurdities However it be if the Authority of the Council be no more than the Popes it could not depose the Pope and therefore those ungodly Knaves Popes are to be reckoned among the Bishops that lawfully succeed by a continual Succession not interrupted by Reason of their Heresie Atheism Simony Force and Villanies or if there be granted an Interruption there will now forthwith be no Succession at all upon the same Account that Bellarmine denies that the Succession of the Greeks is to be accounted lawful He that seeth not that the Papists are wholly at a loss in all these Things as in an endless Labyrinth of Errours he truly seeing is blind For howsoever the Case stands touching Succession the Question concerning Truth will alwayes remain To what Purpose therefore do they enter into so intricate a Labyrinth and take so great Pains for to prove a Succession One of these must necessarily be concluded either that the Truth is sufficient to constitute a true Church or that it is not If the former be true To what End is Succession by these endless Windings to and fro proved If the latter What doth Truth avail if it do not constitute a true Church It is contrary to the Nature and Propertie of Truth not to constitute a true Church whether those who teach the Truth have it by Tradition from others or no or at least know not the List of their Names from whom they have it delivered to them Gold will be Gold although it have been hid and buried in the Earth a thousand Years But you will say it is requisite that there be some before I know Gold to teach me that that is Gold But say I shall the Church thorowly do this But then there is required some one besides by whom I may be sure that that this Church which doth affirm that this is Gold doth know it most exactly and cannot err therein Who shall that be Here the Papists make a Circle We assert that the Scripture is Truth which the Church of Rome granteth us But yet it is the Prerogative of the Church saith he to tell us that the Scripture is Truth But say I who shall tell me that the Church that affirms this saith true She hath not this Priviledge by Succession unless it clearly appear that she never defected from the Truth This cannot appear unless I know what is Truth If the Church herself assume this she then singeth to us the same Song and so the Church will be both Plantiff and Judge and that in her own proper Cause Here will be no End of contending And that is it which Tertullian meant in that most known Place and commonly in the mouth of all the Papists which they quote in all their Writings with a very perverse wresting of the Sense thereof in his Book of Proscript against Hereticks Chap. 32. Where he thus speaketh But if any Heresies dare insert themselves in the Times of the Apostles that so they may be thought to have been delivered by the Apostles because they were in the Apostles Dayes we may say that is we may in such Case demand of them the Succession of which they boast saying Let them produce the Originals of their Churches turn over the Order of their Bishops so running down by Succession from the Beginning as that first Bishop had some one of the Apostles or Apostolical men who yet continued with the Apostles for his Author and Predecessor c. And a little after Let the Hereticks feign any such Thing which is to be noted as serving our Purpose yet though they shall feign it they shall prevail nothing For their very Doctrine compared with that of the Apostles by its Diversity and Contrariety will aloud declare that it hath neither any Apostle nor Apostolical Man for its Authour For as the Apostles would not have taught Things differing among themselves so also the Apostolical Men would not have published Things contrary to the Apostles except it were those who revolted from the Apostles and taught otherwise According to this Form therefore or Manner note it well shall those Churches appeal which though they can produce none of the Apostles or Apostolick Men as their Authour as being long after and which lastly are daily instituted yet agreeing in the same Faith to wit with the Apostles or Apostolick Men they are not the less deemed Apostolical by Reason of the cousanguinity or nearness of kin of their Doctrine That is according to Tertullians style because they agree with the Apostles in Doctrine These words of Tertullian which the Papists so shamefully abuse and so violently wrest do not obscurely confirm what we have said For Tertullian says three Things First that those Churches which have the Truth agreeable with the Doctrine of the Apostles are no less Apostolical Churches then others although they cannot shew their Succession for that only Cause for that they have the Truth on their side Secondly that those Churches which glory of their Succession and Original derived from the Apostles and cannot demonstrate it are justly to be rejected as those who obtrude upon us that which is false And Thirdly that those Churches which demonstrate their Succession whether lawfully or unlawfully are not to be counted for true Churches unless it appear that their Doctrine is agreeable to the Doctrine of the Apostles What Churches agree therein the same are Apostolical although they be destitute of Succession This is more clear then the Noon-dayes Sun The same affirmeth Augustine in that Place which is also quoted as unfaithfully and contrary to the Meaning of Augustine by the Papists in his Book which he wrote against the fundamental Epistle of Manichee Chap. 4. For when he had said that he clave to the Catholick Church wherein from the See of Peter even to his Time the Succession of Bishops and Priests had been deduced he addes these words which are altogether agreeable with our Judgment With you he speaks of the Manichees where there is none of these to invite and detain me there is onely the noise of the Promise of Truth which indeed were it so manifestly shewed that it could not be questioned were to be preferred before all those Things by Reason whereof I am detained in the Catholick Church What could Augustine have spoken more clear to prove and shew that neither Antiquity nor Succession can avail so as that any one should be able to quit himself of the Labyrinth of Doubts touching the true Church but that the Truth

there is required a skill in Tongues continual or diligent reading an acute Judgment and an accurate Examination of the Words and Phrasiologie or manner of expression of the Fathers But supposing also that there is no Controversie touching these Things Then Fourthly the Question will be whether all those Things which the Father 's believed and wrote are to be believed and received as true If you deny it I will query in the Fifth Place why one more than another If you say because they are all agreed in that or the one then these Questions will forthwith arise First wherefore should all those Things wherein they are agreed amongst themselves be accounted or held by the Church of Rome for undoubted and certain The Second is what are those things concerning which they are agreed and which are to be embraced To know this you must attentively turn over the Writings of all the Fathers Greek and Latine from Head to Foot for the which some Years space is requisite And Thirdly if any Doubt happen either touching the Sense of their Writings as there is doubt made of the Scripture or of their Phrases and forms of Expression which they at that Time used and now are both used and understood far otherwise what end will there be But passing this seeing the Fathers agree among themselves in this that they would have neither their own nor any Writings of Men except the Books that are Canonical to be lookt upon as free from Error yea seeing they roundly confess that they may err and by Consequence would not that their Writings should be believed not to be lyable to Error but do expresly will that they be tryed by the Word of God desiring that they should be rejected if they agree not therewith What shall be done then What Certainty can there be had from their Writings against Errors Certainly none at all Yea rather if we make Use of them for this end that we may from thence be assured in our belief we use them contrary to the Intention of the Fathers and so against their plain and express Protestation and Prohibition wherein the Fathers are all agreed CHAP. VIII That the same cannot be proved by Reasons IF he at length have a mind to confirm his Thesis by Reasons he falls out of one Labyrinth into another For first what Reasons will sway with him whereon to rely when as in the main Article of his Belief he doth not only not heed Rea●ons but doth not believe so much as his outward Senses Can there be given any more solid Argument for the convincing of any one than that which is drawn from that which we see with our own Eyes which we perceive with our Senses being sound and lastly which we feel and taste These things notwithstanding the true Papist makes small Account of Seeing that neither by Reasons nor by his own Senses he suffers himself to be induced to believe that the Eucharistical Bread in the Lord's Supper is essentially and substantially Bread Yea when he will undoubtedly believe that one and the same Body is in many places together and they far distant each from other remaining individed notwithstanding that it be distant and separate from it self one hundred yea a thousand and if it were possible a thousand thousand Miles that one and the same Body at the same Time should be able to move in this Place and elsewhere not to move That one and the same Body should meet it self and move with contrary Motions at the same moment of Time that is together at once from East to West and from West to East Upward and Downward Foreward and Backward That one and the same Body here should be as hot as Fire and at Rome as cold as Ice That it should be alive here and dead at Venice He that will believe these Things which are diametrically contrary to the Nature of Man and right Reason by what Reason shall he either dare or be able to perswade himself or others of any thing Those who shame not to question so clear a Truth and obstinately to believe the cont●●ry and as I may so say wilfully to draw a Film over their Eyes that they may not see with such I say Reasons are like Counters which stand for so much as they desire they should stand for that use them in Accounts But be it that they make Use of Reasons What Reasons I pray you will they here produce Will they take them from the Scripture But then the same Difficulties will remain as we have already recounted Or shall their Reasons not be taken from Scripture But those by other Reasons may most easily and not without just cause be called into Doubt For if the Church cannot err this must necessarily proceed from the Divine Will and Decree For if God will not have the Church to be beyond or out of all Danger of Errour what Reason will there be given undenyably proving that the Church cannot err Now the will and Decree of God cannot be understood without the Scripture much less can it be drawn from mens Wit and Reasoning From whence it followeth that it is altogether most absurd by Reasons which may be doubted of to prove any thing which ought now long before without all Doubt and Controversie to be believed to depend upon the meer free Will and Decree of God By these Things it is manifest in how intricate and inexplicable a Circle the Papists wander in ●espect of the fundamental Article of their Faith when they will believe nothing but what their Church believeth yet cannot certainly shew what their Church properly is or who is the Head of their Church and although they could shew that as they cannot yet were it impossible for them to prove that the Church much less that their Church cannot err And thus far of the first sort of Papists with whom we have said that Dispute is alwayes held in vain CHAP. IX That the Controversie of Succession is useless and endless THe second sort of them is those who greatly desire always to dispute of those Questions which though they be weighed by the exact ballance of Truth yet do they not assure the Consciences of Men nor convince them of the Truth that is chiefly necessary to be believed These are they who have the Antiquity and Succession both of their Doctrine and Church always in their Mouth concluding for certain that they have born away the Palm and gotten the Victory if they may glory thereof This they sound forth as the Burden of the Catholicks Song And which is worthy of the Highest Admiration the chief Cryers and Boasters hereof are even those who haply not so much as ever throughly viewed the Books and Histories of those Men from whence this Antiquity and continued Succession is to be drawn and maintained or if they have viewed them thorow are yet nevertheless no wayes fit to turn them over without Affection and Prejudice to wit being wont either