be_v so_o evident_a in_o itself_o why_o do_v not_o all_o papist_n agree_v with_o you_o but_o rather_o oppose_v you_o 2._o your_o reason_n be_v most_o ridiculous_a it_o be_v this_o the_o true_a church_n be_v before_o any_o false_a one_o therefore_o succession_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o true_a church_n if_o you_o have_v be_v speak_v of_o antiquity_n your_o argument_n will_v have_v have_v some_o force_n in_o it_o but_o antiquity_n and_o succession_n be_v different_a thing_n constitute_v two_o distinct_a note_n of_o your_o church_n antiquity_n proper_o point_v at_o the_o begin_n of_o church_n succession_n only_o at_o the_o continuation_n of_o they_o but_o i_o think_v your_o mind_n be_v upon_o antiquity_n for_o in_o your_o five_o section_n you_o purposely_o handle_v it_o and_o your_o meaning_n here_o be_v this_o that_o false_a church_n can_v derive_v their_o succession_n to_o the_o first_o foundation_n thereof_o which_o be_v christ_n for_o you_o say_v there_o must_v be_v a_o stop_n and_o bar_v betwixt_o whatsoever_o counterfeit_a church_n and_o christ_n etc._n etc._n to_o which_o i_o answer_v 1._o heretical_a church_n as_o such_o can_v derive_v their_o succession_n from_o christ_n or_o the_o apostle_n for_o then_o they_o shall_v derive_v their_o heresy_n also_o but_o 2._o those_o church_n that_o be_v now_o or_o have_v late_o be_v heretical_a may_v yet_o derive_v a_o personal_a succession_n from_o christ_n in_o as_o much_o as_o at_o first_o they_o be_v plant_v and_o establish_v in_o the_o truth_n by_o the_o apostle_n but_o have_v since_o degenerate_v thus_o it_o be_v with_o the_o greek_a church_n and_o your_o roman_a church_n and_o probable_o be_v with_o the_o arian_n who_o though_o they_o want_v doctrinal_a succession_n yet_o may_v have_v personal_a there_o be_v bishop_n of_o note_n who_o maintain_v that_o heresy_n in_o the_o former_a regard_n its_o true_a which_o you_o say_v that_o the_o arian_n derivation_n climb_v no_o further_a than_o arius_n there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n betwixt_o succession_n of_o doctrine_n and_o person_n though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o it_o last_o you_o return_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n and_o whereas_o it_o be_v say_v there_o have_v be_v name_v in_o several_a age_n the_o albigenses_n the_o apostolici_fw-la wickliff_n hus._n you_o answer_v none_o of_o these_o be_v protestant_n etc._n etc._n rep._n 1._o some_o of_o these_o be_v protestant_n the_o albigenses_n otherwise_o call_v waldenses_n be_v protestant_n parson_n confess_v that_o they_o devise_v and_o frame_v out_o of_o scripture_n the_o whole_a platform_n of_o the_o protestant_a gospel_n 67._o pars_fw-la 3._o con._n part_n 3._o hist_o of_o france_n book_n 1._o pag._n 15._o edit_n a_o 1595._o id._n p._n 67._o a_o french_a historian_n write_v thus_o of_o they_o who_o in_o spite_n of_o all_o the_o potentate_n in_o christendom_n sow_v about_o the_o year_n 1100._o and_o even_o since_o their_o doctrine_n small_o differ_v from_o the_o protestant_n at_o this_o day_n for_o the_o further_a clear_v of_o this_o take_v this_o extract_n of_o their_o confession_n of_o faith_n which_o they_o deliver_v to_o francis_n 1._o of_o france_n about_o the_o year_n 1540_o and_o which_o they_o say_v be_v teach_v unto_o they_o ever_o since_o the_o year_n 1200._o it_o contain_v the_o article_n of_o god_n the_o father_n creator_n of_o all_o thing_n of_o the_o son_n advocate_n and_o intercessor_n for_o mankind_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n comforter_n and_o teacher_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o church_n which_o they_o say_v to_o be_v assemble_v of_o all_o the_o choose_v have_v jâ—sus_n christ_n for_o head_n of_o minister_n of_o the_o magistrate_n who_o they_o confess_v ordain_v of_o god_n to_o punish_v malefactor_n and_o defend_v the_o good_a to_o who_o it_o suffice_v not_o only_o to_o carry_v honour_n but_o also_o to_o pay_v tax_n and_o impost_n without_o acception_n of_o state_n whatsoever_o and_o that_o at_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n who_o do_v likewise_o practise_v it_o of_o baptism_n which_o they_o maintain_v to_o be_v a_o visible_a and_o extenor_n sign_n represent_v unto_o we_o the_o regenerati_fw-la n_z of_o the_o spirit_n and_o mortification_n of_o the_o member_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n which_o they_o hold_v for_o a_o thanksgiving_n and_o commemora_fw-la ion_n of_o the_o benefit_n receive_v by_o christ_n of_o marriage_n which_o they_o say_v be_v not_o forbid_v to_o any_o by_o h_o which_o much_o it_o be_v holy_a and_o ordain_v oâ—_n god_n of_o good_a work_n wherein_o they_o ought_v to_o employ_v themselves_o continual_o â—f_a man_n tradition_n which_o they_o ought_v to_o shun_v protest_v in_o sum_n that_o the_o rule_n of_o their_o faith_n be_v the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n and_o that_o they_o believe_v all_o which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o apostle_n creed_n this_o positive_a confession_n i_o have_v take_v verbatim_o out_o of_o the_o french_a historian_n to_o which_o i_o may_v add_v a_o negative_a one_o out_o of_o aeneas_n silvius_n and_o other_o viz._n they_o hold_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o above_o other_o bishop_n that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o purgatory_n be_v devise_v by_o the_o priest_n for_o their_o own_o gain_n that_o the_o image_n of_o god_n and_o saint_n be_v to_o be_v deface_v that_o confirmation_n and_o extreme_a unction_n be_v no_o sacrament_n that_o it_o be_v vain_a to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n since_o they_o can_v help_v we_o that_o auricular_a confession_n be_v a_o trifle_a thing_n that_o it_o be_v not_o meritorious_a to_o keep_v set_v fast_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o such_o a_o set_a number_n of_o canonical_a hour_n in_o pray_v be_v vain_a that_o oil_n and_o chrism_n be_v not_o to_o be_v use_v in_o baptism_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o the_o holy_a church_n nor_o spouse_n of_o christ_n but_o babylon_n the_o mother_n of_o abomination_n if_o you_o desire_v to_o see_v more_o of_o they_o read_v calverii_n epitome_n historian_n page_n 555._o where_n you_o have_v a_o large_a catalogue_n of_o they_o and_o now_o let_v the_o reader_n judge_n whether_o they_o be_v protestant_n or_o no._n but_o you_o object_n two_o thing_n to_o prove_v that_o they_o be_v not_o protestant_n 1._o they_o hold_v not_o in_o all_o point_n with_o they_o for_o this_o you_o cite_v divers_a author_n but_o i_o answer_v 1._o i_o confess_v the_o author_n you_o mention_v do_v several_o attribute_v divers_a error_n to_o they_o but_o these_o witness_n agree_v not_o among_o themselves_o guido_n carmelita_n charge_v they_o with_o say_v that_o mass_n be_v to_o be_v say_v once_o only_o every_o year_n aeneas_z silvius_z contrary_o say_v that_o they_o hold_v that_o the_o priest_n may_v consecrate_v at_o any_o time_n and_o minister_v to_o they_o that_o require_v it_o the_o same_o guido_n say_v they_o hold_v that_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n must_v be_v no_o other_o but_o the_o pater_fw-la noster_fw-la seven_o time_n say_v over_o the_o bread_n but_o aeneas_n silvius_n antonius_n and_o luxemburg_n say_v the_o contrary_a affirm_v that_o they_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o speak_v the_o sacramental_a word_n only_o prateolus_n charge_v they_o with_o manicheisme_n but_o reinerus_n the_o french_a historian_n and_o other_o free_v they_o from_o it_o 2._o their_o confession_n show_v that_o there_o be_v very_o small_a difference_n betwixt_o they_o and_o the_o protestant_n 3._o though_o they_o shall_v not_o hold_v in_o all_o point_n with_o protestant_n yet_o they_o may_v be_v protestant_n perfect_v compliance_n be_v not_o absolute_o necessary_a to_o constitute_v a_o person_n a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n many_o of_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n corinth_n galatia_n etc._n etc._n do_v not_o agree_v in_o all_o point_n with_o those_o church_n yet_o be_v member_n of_o they_o the_o french_a papist_n go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_n yet_o agree_v not_o in_o all_o point_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o they_o deny_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v above_o a_o general_a council_n and_o that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v ecumenical_a and_o lawful_a the_o book_n of_o many_o name_v catholic_n have_v be_v censure_v for_o unsound_a speech_n and_o because_o they_o have_v not_o hold_v in_o all_o point_n with_o your_o church_n yet_o be_v catholic_n still_o the_o apostle_n suppose_v that_o though_o those_o who_o be_v perfect_a do_v walk_v by_o the_o same_o rule_n yet_o some_o may_v be_v otherwise_o mind_v phil._n 3.15_o which_o the_o rhemist_n in_o their_o note_n on_o that_o place_n clear_o grant_v 2._o you_o object_n that_o they_o hold_v not_o in_o all_o point_n with_o themselves_o answ_n 1._o we_o be_v behold_v to_o you_o for_o your_o good_a opinion_n of_o protestant_n the_o arguis_a this_o they_o that_o hold_v not_o in_o all_o point_n with_o themselves_o be_v not_o protestant_n the_o waldenses_n hold_v not_o
pastor_n shall_v be_v visible_a after_o they_o be_v dead_a for_o a_o visibility_n of_o they_o whilst_o they_o live_v will_v be_v to_o no_o purpose_n it_o not_o provide_v the_o the_o church_n of_o mean_n to_o defend_v aâ—d_n make_v good_a her_o right_a in_o case_n of_o opposition_n etc._n etc._n answ_n 1._o for_o man_n to_o be_v visible_a after_o death_n be_v something_o accidental_a and_o withal_o strange_a unless_o to_o a_o popish_a ear_n or_o a_o necromancer_n eye_n but_o suppose_v charitable_o that_o you_o mean_v that_o their_o name_n shall_v be_v visible_a i_o say_v 2._o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n for_o evidence_v a_o true_a church_n that_o the_o name_n of_o all_o precede_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n thereof_o shall_v be_v mention_v it_o be_v sufficient_a that_o it_o be_v show_v that_o their_o doctrine_n have_v its_o rise_n from_o christ_n and_o that_o the_o apostle_n profess_v and_o preach_v it_o thus_o we_o show_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o church_n against_o your_o antichristian_a temple_n it_o be_v a_o truth_n subscribe_v to_o by_o all_o that_o the_o doctrine_n which_o have_v its_o rise_n from_o christ_n and_o be_v profess_v by_o the_o apostle_n have_v professor_n of_o it_o in_o all_o age_n and_o these_o must_v needs_o be_v true_a pastor_n though_o without_o exact_a succession_n yourself_o former_o do_v confess_v that_o it_o be_v require_v of_o protestant_n to_o deduce_v a_o succession_n from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n not_o of_o man_n mere_o send_v but_o withal_o profess_v the_o doctrine_n maintain_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n though_o now_o forget_v what_o you_o have_v before_o say_v you_o affirm_v that_o if_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n be_v find_v succeed_v each_o other_o without_o intermission_n its_o evident_a they_o be_v true_a and_o catholic_n but_o this_o i_o have_v confute_v before_o 3._o your_o reason_n with_o its_o comparison_n annex_v to_o it_o do_v not_o prove_v your_o assertion_n you_o say_v it_z not_o provide_v the_o church_n of_o mean_n to_o defend_v and_o make_v good_a her_o right_a in_o case_n of_o opposition_n the_o question_n of_o the_o church_n right_o be_v to_o be_v decide_v not_o unlike_a that_o of_o two_o great_a man_n lay_v claim_n to_o a_o principality_n by_o virtue_n of_o some_o pretend_a descent_n from_o a_o certain_a prince_n answ_n 1._o it_o be_v unlike_a if_o by_o descent_n you_o mean_v a_o series_n of_o personal_a succession_n without_o interruption_n for_o the_o church_n right_o be_v not_o decide_v that_o way_n scribe_n and_o pharisee_n may_v have_v lineal_a descent_n from_o aaron_n yet_o be_v thief_n and_o robber_n john_n 10.8_o the_o church_n plant_v since_o the_o apostle_n day_n can_v not_o have_v this_o lineal_a descent_n from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n yea_o the_o church_n plant_v by_o the_o apostle_n may_v have_v their_o hiatus_fw-la yet_o both_o these_o late_a be_v true_a church_n of_o christ_n you_o seem_v to_o grant_v pag._n 56_o that_o the_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n of_o some_o particular_a church_n can_v be_v name_v in_o a_o constant_a succession_n how_o then_o will_v you_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o those_o church_n for_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o this_o mean_v you_o plead_v for_o 2._o suppose_v they_o like_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o the_o un-interruptednesse_a of_o succession_n for_o which_o they_o lay_v claim_v to_o the_o principality_n for_o it_o may_v have_v be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o usurper_n but_o descent_n together_o with_o the_o qualification_n require_v in_o he_o who_o be_v to_o inherit_v which_o be_v find_v in_o one_o but_o not_o in_o the_o other_o thus_o it_o may_v be_v say_v of_o the_o church_n who_o descent_n from_o christ_n together_o with_o her_o qualification_n viz._n investure_n with_o true_a doctrine_n and_o right_a administration_n of_o sacrament_n according_a to_o the_o will_n of_o jesus_n christ_n do_v entitle_v she_o to_o the_o inheritance_n of_o truth_n 2._o or_o to_o a_o river_n whether_o it_o have_v its_o offspring_n from_o such_o a_o hill_n or_o mountain_n the_o sure_a way_n be_v to_o trace_v the_o river_n up_o to_o the_o head_n answ_n 1._o it_o may_v be_v probable_o know_v by_o other_o mean_n than_o this_o viz._n by_o compare_v the_o water_n of_o the_o mountain_n with_o this_o in_o the_o river_n by_o the_o ascent_n of_o the_o water_n of_o the_o river_n etc._n etc._n 2._o trace_v it_o be_v not_o always_o a_o sure_a way_n it_o may_v be_v mingle_v with_o other_o water_n as_o have_v not_o their_o rise_n from_o that_o mountain_n it_o may_v run_v through_o a_o dead_a sea_n and_o then_o you_o may_v be_v at_o a_o loss_n whilst_o you_o seek_v a_o uninterrupted_a derivation_n of_o it_o from_o its_o head_n yet_o 3._o i_o grant_v that_o when_o the_o head_n be_v near_o and_o there_o be_v no_o mixture_n of_o impure_a and_o different_a water_n your_o course_n be_v very_o good_a thus_o the_o father_n who_o live_v within_o a_o few_o year_n after_o christ_n and_o before_o heretic_n come_v into_o bishopric_n and_o pastoral_a church_n do_v make_v use_n of_o derivation_n of_o succession_n but_o the_o case_n be_v otherwise_o with_o we_o we_o live_v many_o hundred_o of_o year_n after_o they_o and_o there_o have_v be_v heretical_a bishop_n in_o the_o church_n last_o you_o say_v the_o truth_n of_o doctrine_n be_v discernible_a much_o after_o the_o same_o manner_n if_o it_o be_v find_v to_o have_v no_o way_n vary_v but_o to_o have_v keep_v its_o own_o from_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n doubtless_o its_o orthodox_n if_o not_o most_o certain_o its_o new_a and_o false_a answ_n 1._o the_o former_a part_n be_v most_o true_a but_o not_o the_o late_a that_o doctrine_n be_v true_a which_o though_o it_o have_v be_v vary_v in_o particular_a church_n yet_o at_o present_a be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n 2._o grant_v be_v true_a what_o will_v become_v of_o your_o present_a church_n and_o its_o doctrine_n which_o you_o confess_v be_v not_o the_o same_o with_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n doctrine_n certain_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o your_o new_a article_n of_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_a prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n etc._n etc._n be_v new_a and_o false_a the_o rest_n of_o your_o answer_n be_v but_o a_o piece_n of_o rail_a rhetoric_n not_o worthy_a a_o reply_n shape_n v._n the_o five_o shape_n be_v this_o that_o church_n be_v true_a and_o catholic_n which_o profess_v the_o apostle_n doctrine_n clear_o deliver_v in_o scripture_n but_o the_o protestant_a church_n do_v so_o therefore_o etc._n etc._n you_o answer_v 1._o true_a doctrine_n be_v no_o mark_n of_o a_o true_a church_n it_o be_v often_o to_o be_v see_v among_o schismatics_n who_o for_o want_n of_o communion_n can_v make_v a_o true_a church_n reply_v 1._o the_o profession_n of_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n deliver_v in_o scripture_n be_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n as_o not_o agree_v to_o any_o other_o which_o i_o prove_v by_o these_o argument_n draw_v from_o your_o own_o assertion_n 1._o true_a doctrine_n be_v the_o church_n inseparable_a mate_n p._n 40._o but_o it_o can_v not_o be_v her_o inseparable_a mate_n if_o it_o can_v be_v separate_v from_o she_o and_o bring_v into_o society_n with_o a_o schismatical_a church_n 2._o christ_n have_v entrust_v his_o church_n with_o truth_n and_o ordain_v her_o keeper_n and_o preserver_n of_o it_o and_o what_o come_v upon_o any_o other_o score_n than_o upon_o the_o church_n account_n and_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v repute_v apocryphal_a and_o no_o way_n appertain_v to_o the_o obligation_n of_o belief_n p._n 13._o therefore_o whatsoever_o doctrine_n be_v out_o of_o the_o true_a church_n be_v not_o truth_n for_o that_o which_o be_v believe_v by_o man_n out_o of_o the_o church_n come_v not_o upon_o the_o church_n account_n and_o therefore_o with_o you_o be_v apocryphal_a 3._o true_a doctrine_n be_v she_o the_o church_n doctrine_n p._n 51._o therefore_o can_v agree_v to_o other_o 4._o there_o be_v no_o agreement_n betwixt_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n and_o idol_n no_o concord_n with_o christ_n and_o belial_n you_o urge_v these_o word_n to_o prove_v that_o professor_n of_o error_n can_v be_v in_o the_o church_n and_o it_o will_v as_o strong_o prove_v that_o professor_n of_o truth_n can_v be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n where_o then_o be_v your_o truth_n agree_v to_o a_o schismatical_a church_n 5._o doctrine_n be_v in_o nature_n much_o like_o unto_o number_n the_o least_o addition_n or_o diminution_n alter_v its_o kind_n and_o ground_v a_o new_a denomination_n p._n 50._o now_o you_o can_v name_v any_o number_n of_o schismatics_n that_o do_v not_o either_o add_v to_o or_o diminish_v something_o of_o the_o doctrine_n which_o the_o apostle_n teach_v in_o scripture_n hence_o it_o be_v that_o both_o augustine_n and_o hierom_n tell_v we_o that_o there_o be_v no_o schism_n which_o do_v not_o
the_o minor_a for_o proof_n whereof_o you_o give_v we_o a_o definition_n and_o then_o apply_v it_o to_o your_o church_n that_o be_v first_o you_o suit_v your_o definition_n to_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o then_o you_o bring_v your_o roman_a church_n to_o the_o definition_n the_o definition_n be_v the_o true_a catholic_n church_n be_v a_o society_n of_o man_n link_v together_o in_o the_o profession_n of_o one_o faith_n in_o the_o use_n oâ—_n the_o same_o sacrament_n and_o under_o the_o government_n of_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n lawful_o send_v that_o be_v able_a to_o show_v their_o personal_a and_o doctrinal_a succession_n from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n without_o the_o least_o interruption_n answ_n 1._o it_o may_v rational_o be_v expect_v from_o you_o that_o when_o you_o bring_v a_o definition_n upon_o the_o truth_n whereof_o the_o validity_n of_o your_o argument_n depend_v you_o shall_v have_v fetch_v it_o from_o some_o father_n or_o other_o approve_a author_n and_o not_o out_o 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what_o sober_a man_n that_o read_v these_o text_n will_v infer_v that_o the_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n be_v able_a to_o show_v etc._n etc._n but_o it_o stick_v in_o your_o tooth_n and_o therefore_o you_o stop_v at_o show_n and_o true_o i_o may_v well_o apply_v to_o you_o the_o word_n of_o the_o psalmist_n ps_n 39.6_o with_o a_o little_a variation_n sure_o you_o walk_v in_o a_o vain_a show_n sure_o you_o be_v disquiet_v in_o vain_a you_o heap_v up_o scripture_n and_o know_v not_o how_o to_o apply_v they_o the_o scripture_n you_o urge_v be_v not_o applicable_a to_o any_o thing_n you_o say_v isa_n 2._o prove_v the_o amplitude_n of_o the_o church_n under_o the_o gospel_n by_o the_o access_n of_o the_o gentile_n by_o reason_n of_o who_o also_o it_o shall_v be_v more_o glorious_a then_o former_o but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o show_v of_o personal_a or_o doctrinal_a succession_n of_o the_o church_n bishop_n sure_o you_o do_v not_o understand_v by_o the_o mountain_n 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be_v better_o see_v lyranus_fw-la tell_v we_o in_o hebraeo_fw-la etc._n etc._n in_o the_o hebrew_n and_o in_o hieroms_n translation_n according_a to_o the_o hebrew_n it_n be_v thus_o he_o have_v place_v for_o they_o a_o tabernacle_n for_o the_o sun_n now_o do_v you_o think_v that_o either_o vatablus_n lyrâ—_n hierom_n or_o the_o hebrew_n will_v infer_v that_o because_o the_o sun_n be_v in_o the_o heaven_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v able_a to_o show_v its_o own_o or_o bishop_n personal_a succession_n i_o wonder_v you_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o reject_v the_o hebrew_n and_o hierom_n and_o produce_v a_o false_a translation_n to_o so_o little_a purpose_n as_o you_o do_v for_o suppose_v in_o both_o these_o text_n it_o be_v prove_v that_o the_o church_n have_v a_o show_n or_o be_v manifest_a yet_o it_o make_v not_o for_o a_o successive_a visibilitie_n of_o a_o hierarchicall_a church_n yea_o they_o clear_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n may_v be_v sometime_o hide_v for_o the_o cloud_n may_v both_o make_v the_o mountain_n invisible_a and_o obscure_v the_o lustre_n of_o the_o sun_n as_o common_a experience_n testify_v 3._o their_o personal_a and_o doctrinal_a succession_n he_o give_v some_o doctor_n and_o pastor_n etc._n etc._n until_o we_o all_o meet_v in_o the_o unity_n of_o faith_n eph._n 4_o indeed_o here_o be_v prove_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v pastor_n in_o the_o church_n till_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n god_n will_v still_o raise_v up_o some_o to_o preach_v his_o truth_n though_o there_o may_v be_v interruption_n in_o particular_a church_n nor_o do_v matth._n 28._o prove_v a_o non_fw-fr interruption_n of_o succession_n of_o bishop_n but_o only_o a_o non_fw-fr interruption_n of_o christ_n presence_n but_o suppose_v isa_n 2._o &_o psal_n 19_o prove_v a_o visibilitie_n and_o eph._n 4._o prove_v a_o succession_n and_o matth._n 28._o prove_v a_o non_fw-fr interruption_n yet_o to_o say_v therefore_o the_o church_n must_v be_v able_a to_o show_v a_o succession_n without_o interruption_n be_v fallacia_fw-la compositionis_fw-la and_o now_o let_v any_o man_n judge_n whether_o your_o definition_n be_v spiritual_a or_o no._n 2._o this_o definition_n be_v not_o a_o right_a definition_n according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o logic_n it_o be_v not_o adaequata_fw-la definito_fw-la not_o fit_v to_o the_o catholic_n church_n for_o first_o it_o may_v agree_v to_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o catholic_n as_o be_v evident_a to_o any_o that_o examine_v it_o and_o second_o it_o do_v not_o agree_v to_o the_o catholic_n i._n e._n the_o universal_a church_n for_o first_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n do_v not_o show_v succession_n as_o governor_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n but_o as_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n in_o particular_a church_n the_o pope_n show_v their_o succession_n as_o bishop_n of_o rome_n the_o patriarch_n of_o constantinople_n show_v his_o succession_n as_o patriarch_n of_o that_o place_n thus_o the_o bishop_n of_o england_n show_v their_o succession_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n he_o that_o show_v a_o personal_a succession_n of_o government_n over_o the_o catholic_a church_n must_v produce_v not_o a_o pstoral_n or_o episcopal_n but_o apostolical_a succession_n which_o papist_n themselves_o lay_v no_o claim_n to_o 2._o there_o be_v no_o such_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n as_o can_v show_v a_o personal_a and_o doctrinal_a succession_n without_o the_o least_o interruption_n 3._o this_o definition_n comprehend_v not_o pope_n and_o bishop_n who_o be_v part_n of_o it_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o visible_a and_o distinct_a from_o particular_a congregation_n be_v more_o true_o define_v by_o lorichius_n in_o these_o word_n sensus_fw-la unitatis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la est_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o sense_n of_o the_o article_n of_o one_o church_n be_v to_o believe_v that_o all_o the_o congregation_n of_o the_o faithful_a be_v one_o church_n and_o that_o
p._n 152._o an._n 1531._o p._n 214._o that_o he_o be_v non_fw-la parum_fw-la doctus_fw-la not_o mean_o learn_v the_o epitaph_n this_o same_o author_n mention_n to_o be_v write_v upon_o oecolampadius_n show_v he_o to_o be_v a_o man_n of_o great_a learning_n the_o rest_n of_o they_o be_v man_n of_o good_a part_n and_o endue_v with_o a_o spirit_n of_o zeal_n for_o god_n truth_n beside_o with_o those_o gift_n the_o present_a necessity_n do_v much_o concur_v those_o who_o have_v the_o key_n of_o order_n neither_o enter_v in_o themselves_o nor_o admit_v other_o into_o it_o who_o seek_v the_o advancement_n of_o christ_n kingdom_n 2._o by_o meditation_n of_o other_o who_o receive_v authority_n from_o the_o prime-giver_n thus_o the_o protestant_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n after_o the_o apostle_n time_n receive_v their_o power_n from_o the_o hand_n of_o those_o who_o the_o apostle_n have_v before_o invest_v therewith_o yea_o if_o we_o speak_v of_o the_o first_o protestant_n bishop_n and_o pastor_n 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observe_v sir_n you_o remember_v the_o word_n they_o be_v your_o own_o page_z 41._o but_o oportet_fw-la mendacem_fw-la esse_fw-la memorem_fw-la 2._o true_a religion_n be_v not_o to_o be_v measure_v by_o man_n meaning_n but_o by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n so_o then_o if_o according_a to_o god_n word_n protestantism_n be_v the_o true_a religion_n it_o be_v no_o great_a matter_n what_o your_o catholic_n bishop_n meaning_n be_v 3._o catholic_a bishop_n ought_v to_o ordain_v man_n in_o order_n to_o the_o set_v forth_o of_o the_o unsearchable_a riches_n of_o christ_n eph._n 3.8_o to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n col._n 1.25_o mark_n 16.15_o this_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o scripture_n if_o your_o bishop_n ordain_v man_n to_o preach_v any_o thing_n else_o they_o be_v abuser_n of_o their_o power_n their_o ordination_n be_v impure_a and_o unlawful_a and_o so_o far_o to_o be_v frustrate_v thus_o our_o protestant_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n that_o have_v be_v ordain_v by_o you_o retain_v that_o which_o 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church_n you_o appropriate_v that_o name_n to_o yourselves_o but_o who_o give_v it_o you_o indeed_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o her_o purity_n before_o she_o be_v infect_v with_o the_o leeven_a of_o popery_n be_v a_o catholic_a church_n 2._o euseb_n eccl_n hist_o l._n 4._o c._n 15._o &_o l._n 10._o c._n 7._o socr._n schol_a l._n 2._o c._n 2._o but_o so_o be_v other_o church_n call_v as_o well_o as_o she_o with_o who_o you_o hold_v no_o communion_n now_o nor_o they_o with_o you_o as_o the_o church_n of_o smyrna_n alexandria_n carthage_n 2._o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o true_a church_n to_o have_v communion_n with_o you_o the_o eastern_a church_n be_v as_o much_o at_o variance_n with_o you_o as_o protestant_n be_v yet_o they_o be_v true_a church_n the_o african_a bishop_n do_v oppose_v divers_a of_o your_o pope_n one_o after_o another_o tell_v they_o they_o shall_v
hide_v and_o conceal_v their_o opinion_n and_o whilst_o the_o church_n do_v what_o she_o can_v to_o cast_v they_o out_o of_o she_o these_o will_v be_v a_o plea_n for_o your_o church_n if_o the_o supposition_n be_v true_a but_o you_o urge_v further_o thus_o protestant_n bishop_n and_o pastor_n if_o mingle_v with_o catholic_n do_v neither_o believe_v nor_o profess_v their_o doctrine_n but_o only_o conceal_v and_o cover_v their_o own_o for_o fear_v of_o the_o formidable_a rigour_n of_o catholic_n and_o such_o can_v neither_o be_v true_a nor_o make_v a_o save_a church_n not_o true_a because_o the_o mission_n of_o true_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n be_v found_v upon_o persecution_n and_o suffering_n mat._n 10._o luk._n 11._o it_o be_v proper_a to_o they_o to_o fear_v no_o colour_n nor_o make_v up_o a_o save_a church_n by_o reason_n profession_n of_o faith_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n rom._n 10._o mat._n 10._o repl._n 1_o it_o must_v not_o be_v grant_v that_o protestant_a pastor_n do_v mere_o conceal_v and_o cover_v their_o own_o faith_n and_o doctrine_n there_o be_v much_o cry_v out_o against_o error_n and_o disorder_n in_o the_o pope_n church_n by_o many_o though_o not_o without_o suffering_n gersom_a for_o speak_v free_o against_o the_o disorder_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v deprive_v of_o his_o good_n and_o dignity_n by_o the_o pope_n and_o expulse_v the_o university_n by_o the_o sorbonist_n laurentius_n valla_fw-la be_v exile_v by_o the_o pope_n john_n of_o vesalia_n a_o preacher_n at_o worm_n be_v sharp_o handle_v by_o the_o inquisitor_n for_o oppose_a indulgence_n auricular_a confession_n pilgrimage_n merit_n etc._n etc._n berengerius_n open_o declare_v against_o transubstantiation_n for_o which_o he_o be_v not_o well_o handle_v read_v our_o martirology_n and_o it_o will_v evident_o appear_v that_o protestant_n do_v not_o only_o not_o conceal_v their_o own_o doctrine_n but_o oppose_v you_o 2._o it_o be_v not_o simple_o unlawful_a nor_o altogether_o 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conceal_v the_o truth_n from_o their_o enemy_n for_o a_o time_n else_o what_o think_v you_o of_o peter_n who_o do_v more_o than_o conceal_v even_o deny_v his_o religion_n of_o liberius_n who_o accept_v of_o arianism_n certain_o if_o these_o be_v not_o true_a bishop_n your_o chain_n of_o succession_n will_v be_v a_o break_a piece_n your_o priest_n in_o england_n at_o this_o day_n hide_v their_o person_n and_o with_o they_o the_o open_a confession_n of_o their_o suppose_a truth_n they_o preach_v not_o open_o they_o administer_v not_o the_o sacrament_n open_o they_o exercise_v not_o their_o mortal_a devil_n open_o and_o that_o for_o fear_n of_o apprehension_n and_o punishment_n due_a to_o such_o vagabond_n and_o yet_o your_o ignoramuss_n depend_v upon_o their_o benediction_n as_o spiritual_a father_n 4_o your_o reason_n be_v divers_a way_n peccant_a 1._o it_o be_v improper_a to_o say_v the_o mission_n of_o true_a bishop_n be_v found_v upon_o persecution_n and_o sufferingse_n 1._o be_v persecution_n the_o base_n of_o pastoral_a mission_n then_o if_o persecution_n cease_v the_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n cease_v to_o be_v true_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n the_o building_n can_v stand_v when_o the_o foundation_n be_v fall_v then_o your_o pope_n or_o cardinal_n etc._n etc._n be_v no_o true_a bishop_n or_o pastor_n for_o they_o live_v in_o great_a pomp_n and_o ease_n and_o suffer_v nothing_o unless_o that_o by_o their_o intemperance_n they_o get_v bodily_a disease_n which_o be_v nothing_o to_o truth_n indeed_o since_o through_o your_o freedom_n from_o persecution_n your_o chalice_n be_v of_o gold_n your_o priest_n have_v be_v but_o wooden_a image_n 2._o you_o mistake_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o conceal_v the_o truth_n which_o be_v not_o a_o distract_n and_o a_o distrustful_a fear_n which_o look_v main_o at_o torment_n as_o you_o imagine_v but_o their_o fear_n be_v a_o sober_a fear_n 1._o lest_o the_o church_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v deprive_v of_o they_o by_o reason_n of_o their_o profession_n of_o truth_n at_o such_o a_o time_n when_o there_o be_v no_o visible_a advantage_n accrue_v to_o it_o 2._o lest_o they_o shall_v incur_v the_o guilt_n of_o their_o own_o death_n by_o unreasonable_a profession_n see_v mat._n 7.6_o whence_o lyranus_fw-la infer_v 7.6_o lyran._n in_o mat._n 7.6_o that_o the_o secret_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o to_o be_v reveal_v to_o obstinate_a unbeliever_n because_o hereby_o may_v ensue_v the_o derision_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n and_o the_o murder_n of_o the_o minister_n our_o saviour_n give_v liberty_n to_o his_o disciple_n if_o they_o be_v persecute_v in_o one_o city_n to_o fly_v to_o another_o mat._n 10.23_o yet_o bid_v they_o not_o fear_v ver._n 26._o clemens_n alexandrinus_n set_v this_o forth_o very_a well_o speak_v of_o fly_v in_o time_n of_o persecution_n swadet_fw-la fugere_fw-la etc._n etc._n he_o persuade_v we_o to_o flee_v not_o as_o if_o it_o be_v evil_a to_o suffer_v persecution_n nor_o that_o we_o shall_v fear_v death_n but_o he_o will_v not_o have_v we_o author_n or_o abettor_n of_o evil_a either_o to_o ourselves_o or_o he_o that_o persecute_v or_o he_o that_o kill_v we_o for_o he_o warn_v we_o that_o we_o be_v cautelous_a but_o he_o that_o obey_v not_o be_v audacious_a and_o rash_a and_o unadvised_o cast_v himself_o upon_o manifest_a danger_n now_o if_o he_o that_o slay_v a_o man_n of_o god_n sin_n against_o god_n he_o also_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o murder_n who_o do_v not_o avoid_v persecution_n but_o through_o audacity_n offer_v himself_o to_o be_v apprehend_v for_o in_o as_o much_o as_o in_o he_o lie_v he_o help_v on_o the_o wickedness_n of_o the_o persecutor_n otherwise_o our_o protestant_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n have_v as_o courageous_o profess_v the_o truth_n and_o for_o it_o undergo_v with_o patience_n and_o constancy_n as_o great_a torment_n from_o popeish_a hand_n as_o ever_o any_o in_o any_o age_n of_o the_o world_n do_v so_o that_o be_v you_o not_o blind_v with_o rage_n against_o protestant_n you_o can_v not_o but_o blush_v to_o charge_v they_o with_o fearfulness_n of_o profess_v the_o truth_n for_o a_o conclusion_n of_o this_o i_o desire_v you_o look_v home_o to_o your_o english_a priest_n those_o hedgehog_n who_o appearance_n be_v main_o in_o the_o night_n and_o in_o darkness_n who_o be_v so_o far_o from_o a_o voluntary_a and_o open_a profession_n of_o their_o faith_n that_o i_o do_v not_o know_v of_o any_o one_o that_o ever_o suffer_v upon_o this_o account_n viz._n the_o open_a and_o public_a profession_n of_o his_o faith_n though_o they_o pretend_v themselves_o guard_v with_o power_n of_o miracle_n which_o may_v make_v they_o more_o valiant_a 5._o if_o yourself_o be_v of_o that_o stout_a spirit_n you_o charge_v we_o with_o the_o want_n of_o what_o need_v you_o to_o write_v paris_n for_o london_n or_o l._n b._n for_o your_o conceal_a name_n 5_o you_o conclude_v your_o answer_n to_o this_o shape_n with_o a_o exposition_n of_o the_o parable_n of_o the_o wheat_n and_o chaff_n mat._n 3._o and_o of_o the_o fish_n mat._n 13._o to_o which_o you_o say_v the_o comparison_n be_v mean_v of_o private_a man_n for_o matter_n of_o manner_n and_o not_o of_o any_o mixture_n of_o true_a and_o false_a doctrine_n orthodoxal_a and_o heretical_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n together_o rep._n 1._o it_o be_v most_o certain_a that_o these_o comparison_n do_v set_v forth_o the_o mixture_n which_o be_v in_o the_o visible_a church_n which_o yourself_o even_o now_o contradict_v yea_o 2._o these_o mixture_n extend_v to_o mixture_n of_o doctrine_n and_o teacher_n as_o well_o as_o of_o private_a christian_n in_o manner_n the_o ordinary_a gloss_n understand_v mat._n 13.25_o of_o the_o mixture_n of_o heretic_n with_o the_o elect._n augustin_n also_o by_o cockle_n do_v understand_v heretic_n who_o in_o this_o world_n be_v mingle_v with_o the_o orthodox_n his_o word_n be_v full_a against_o you_o ap._n aug._n ap._n
invent_v different_a doctrine_n and_o new_a heresy_n separation_n from_o a_o church_n can_v but_o suppose_v a_o different_a judgement_n in_o they_o that_o separate_v the_o donatist_n who_o bellarmine_n bring_v in_o to_o prove_v your_o argument_n go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o heretic_n and_o do_v indeed_o hold_v doctrine_n different_a from_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n to_o these_o argument_n ground_v on_o your_o assertion_n i_o will_v add_v two_o more_o 1._o papist_n themselves_o urge_v consent_n of_o doctrine_n with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o ancient_a church_n a_o note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n this_o be_v bellarmine_n sixth_o note_n but_o it_o seem_v papist_n may_v make_v that_o a_o note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n which_o protestant_n may_v not_o 2._o the_o doctrine_n say_v some_o of_o you_o in_o answer_n to_o we_o be_v the_o form_n of_o the_o true_a church_n therefore_o in_o infer_v it_o can_v agree_v to_o any_o false_a one_o the_o form_n be_v intrinsical_n and_o proper_a to_o that_o which_o it_o do_v inform_v not_o common_a to_o other_o as_o rationality_n can_v be_v predicate_v of_o beast_n so_o neither_o can_v profession_n of_o the_o true_a apostolical_a doctrine_n agree_v to_o a_o fall_v and_o unsound_a church_n according_a to_o your_o judgement_n but_o you_o urge_v two_o thing_n viz._n 1._o doctrine_n be_v as_o divers_a as_o there_o be_v divers_a seem_a church_n and_o so_o not_o afford_v any_o determinate_a notion_n draw_v in_o opposition_n of_o a_o mark_n of_o truth_n answ_n 1._o the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o doctrine_n indefinite_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o truth_n as_o you_o propound_v it_o but_o whether_o true_a doctrine_n that_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n clear_o declaclare_v in_o the_o scripture_n and_o profess_v by_o christian_n be_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n we_o affirm_v it_o be_v 2._o though_o doctrine_n in_o general_n be_v divers_a yet_o true_a apostolical_a doctrine_n be_v not_o divers_a but_o one_o and_o the_o same_o as_o there_o be_v one_o lord_n one_o spirit_n one_o church_n so_o be_v there_o one_o faith_n which_o the_o scripture_n reveal_v unto_o we_o 2._o doctrine_n suppose_v bishop_n and_o pastor_n as_o the_o mean_n whereby_o it_o be_v convey_v to_o we_o therefore_o it_o import_v as_o much_o to_o name_v bishop_n and_o pastor_n before_o may_v be_v give_v to_o mention_v doctrine_n as_o it_o be_v necessary_a pass_v from_o one_o extreem_v to_o another_o to_o touch_v first_o the_o middle_a answ_n 1._o but_o that_o your_o memory_n be_v weak_a you_o may_v remember_v that_o we_o have_v be_v mention_v bishop_n and_o pastor_n and_o that_o before_o we_o mention_v doctrine_n what_o else_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o the_o four_o precedent_a shape_n 2._o if_o you_o be_v acquaint_v with_o our_o judgement_n you_o may_v find_v that_o when_o we_o say_v true_a doctrine_n be_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n we_o explain_v ourselves_o to_o mean_v the_o preach_n of_o true_a doctrine_n and_o this_o do_v suppose_v pastor_n and_o teacher_n 3._o truth_n of_o doctrine_n be_v a_o more_o proper_a note_n of_o the_o church_n and_o more_o necessary_a than_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n that_o doctrine_n which_o be_v consonant_a to_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n be_v always_o true_a but_o pastor_n that_o succeed_v they_o be_v not_o always_o true_a pastor_n but_o sometime_o wolf_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o have_v not_o mislead_v we_o we_o will_v first_o have_v begin_v with_o doctrine_n as_o the_o more_o worthy_a 2._o you_o answer_v it_o be_v no_o less_o untrue_a that_o protestant_n maintain_v the_o apostle_n doctrine_n deliver_v in_o scripture_n they_o profess_v a_o doctrine_n clean_o contrary_a and_o opposite_a to_o that_o which_o in_o they_o be_v in_o plain_a and_o formal_a term_n express_v rep._n prove_v this_o and_o you_o carry_v the_o victory_n but_o i_o know_v you_o can_v do_v it_o your_o instance_n be_v insufficient_a some_o of_o they_o be_v not_o in_o scripture_n other_o not_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n which_o you_o be_v to_o have_v prove_v not_o by_o consequence_n but_o express_o in_o plain_a and_o formal_a term_n last_o some_o text_n be_v bring_v in_o against_o we_o with_o which_o we_o full_o join_v but_o i_o will_v particular_o examine_v your_o instance_n 1_o inst_z tradition_n 2_o thess_n 2._o hold_v the_o tradition_n whether_o it_o be_v by_o word_n or_o epistle_n answ_n 1._o it_o be_v most_o evident_a that_o the_o apostle_n by_o tradition_n understand_v whatsoever_o he_o have_v deliver_v to_o the_o thessalonian_o either_o by_o preach_v or_o write_n tradition_n be_v then_o of_o a_o large_a talon_n than_o now_o it_o be_v and_o it_o be_v no_o less_o evident_a that_o what_o the_o apostle_n do_v preach_v be_v nothing_o but_o scripture_n act._n 26.20.22_o especial_o see_v act._n 17.1_o 2_o 3_o 13._o where_o you_o find_v what_o paul_n preach_v at_o thessalonica_n even_o nothing_o but_o the_o word_n of_o god_n contain_v in_o the_o scripture_n 4.2_o annot._n on_o deutr._fw-la 4.2_o your_o dowaist_n say_v unwritten_a tradition_n be_v contain_v imply_v include_v in_o the_o scripture_n such_o the_o apostle_n preach_v 2._o true_a and_o apostolic_a tradition_n we_o willing_o embrace_v yea_o we_o account_v they_o worthy_a of_o anathema_n who_o do_v not_o receive_v they_o that_o which_o clemnitius_n say_v be_v the_o judgement_n of_o protestant_n apostoli_fw-la multa_fw-la tradiderunt_fw-la unâ_fw-la voce_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o apostle_n deliver_v many_o thing_n by_o word_n of_o mouth_n which_o their_o immediate_a successor_n receive_v from_o they_o 68_o exam._n council_n trident_n p._n 1._o d._n trad_a p._n 68_o and_o deliver_v to_o their_o disciple_n but_o all_o these_o as_o irenaeus_n say_v be_v agreeable_a to_o scripture_n and_o we_o reject_v none_o of_o they_o but_o whatsoever_o be_v agreeable_a to_o scripture_n we_o receive_v and_o reverence_n so_o another_o say_v if_o papist_n will_v prove_v their_o tradition_n by_o the_o ancient_a and_o apostolic_a church_n and_o the_o universal_a church_n since_o even_o till_o our_o time_n we_o receive_v they_o and_o this_o be_v apostolical_a tradition_n according_a to_o hierom._n for_o conclusion_n i_o appeal_v to_o medina_n 106._o medri_fw-la l._n 6._o the_o sacr_n hom_n continent_n c._n 106._o whether_o we_o or_o not_o rather_o papist_n be_v guilty_a of_o not_o hold_v apostolical_a tradition_n of_o 84._o canon_n say_v he_o gather_v together_o by_o clemens_n and_o the_o disciple_n of_o the_o apostle_n the_o latin_a church_n scarce_o observe_v 6._o or_o 8._o 2_o inst_z real_a presence_n joh._n 6.51.55_o 56_o 57_o luk_n 22.19_o matth._n 26.28_o ans_fw-fr this_o be_v a_o jesuitical_a slander_n for_o protestant_n do_v not_o deny_v the_o real_a presence_n nor_o be_v the_o controversy_n between_o the_o papist_n and_o we_o about_o it_o inst_z rivel_n sum_n contr._n tan._n 1._o tract_n 3._o q._n 18._o inst_z we_o both_o hold_v that_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v true_o and_o real_o present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o learned_a rivet_n observe_v this_o be_v also_o affirm_v by_o dr._n white_a in_o his_o reply_n to_o fisher_n who_o object_v that_o protestant_n hold_v not_o a_o true_a or_o real_a presence_n but_o only_o a_o presence_n by_o imagination_n and_o conceit_n be_v answer_v in_o these_o word_n his_o most_o excellent_a majesty_n and_o all_o his_o orthodoxal_a people_n believe_v real_a presence_n it_o be_v true_a we_o hold_v not_o a_o gross_a i._n e._n as_o the_o same_o author_n explain_v it_o when_o the_o thing_n signify_v and_o present_v be_v according_a to_o the_o natural_a substance_n thereof_o contain_v under_o the_o shape_n of_o outward_a sign_n and_o together_o with_o they_o convey_v into_o the_o mouth_n stomach_n and_o bodily_a part_n but_o we_o maintain_v a_o true_a and_o effectual_a presence_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n so_o as_o man_n receive_v the_o external_a sign_n by_o his_o natural_a part_n receive_v also_o the_o thing_n signify_v and_o present_v by_o the_o action_n of_o his_o spiritual_a faculty_n to_o wit_n by_o a_o operative_a faith_n and_o this_o be_v most_o evident_a by_o that_o 6._o of_o john_n 3._o inst_z sacrifice_n from_o the_o rise_n of_o the_o sun_n to_o the_o go_v down_o great_a be_v my_o name_n among_o the_o gentile_n and_o in_o every_o place_n there_o be_v sacrifice_v and_o there_o be_v offer_v to_o my_o name_n a_o clean_a oblation_n mal._n 1._o answ_n 1._o this_o text_n be_v in_o none_o of_o the_o apostle_n writing_n however_o be_v scripture_n i_o answer_v 2._o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n be_v not_o in_o plain_a and_o formal_a term_n express_v in_o it_o it_o be_v your_o fall_n read_v that_o bring_v in_o the_o word_n sacrifice_v vatablus_n read_v it_o incensum_fw-la offertur_fw-la incense_n be_v offer_v pagnin_n and_o arias_n montanus_n speak_v to_o the_o same_o purpose_n 3._o it_o may_v be_v more_o
and_o so_o many_o that_o they_o require_v strong_a memory_n to_o retain_v they_o 2._o lawmaker_n be_v not_o able_a to_o comprehend_v all_o particular_a case_n that_o may_v happen_v nor_o do_v they_o use_v to_o declare_v the_o meaning_n of_o the_o law_n unless_o occasional_o in_o some_o doubtful_a case_n for_o it_o be_v suppose_v that_o the_o law_n when_o deliver_v be_v clear_a and_o manifest_a at_o least_o in_o the_o substantial_o of_o it_o 3._o judge_n do_v not_o always_o look_v so_o far_o as_o to_o the_o lawmaker_n but_o to_o the_o practice_n of_o former_a court_n ground_v upon_o right_a reason_n which_o be_v indeed_o the_o foundation_n of_o all_o just_a and_o good_a law_n 2._o you_o answer_v with_o respect_n to_o the_o church_n the_o church_n beside_o the_o letter_n of_o scripture_n which_o she_o read_v assiduous_o with_o watch_v fast_v and_o prayer_n for_o a_o right_n and_o happy_a understanding_n thereof_o and_o her_o own_o reason_n have_v the_o help_n of_o a_o better_a and_o 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you_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n may_v be_v as_o true_o speak_v of_o particular_a christian_n they_o be_v capable_a of_o read_v the_o scripture_n with_o the_o use_n of_o fast_v watch_v prayer_n they_o have_v reason_n whereby_o they_o can_v discern_v truth_n from_o error_n they_o be_v also_o capable_a of_o use_v that_o which_o you_o call_v a_o better_a and_o sure_a tradition_n and_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o spirit_n be_v as_o true_o with_o they_o as_o with_o those_o you_o call_v church_n and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v conclude_v with_o you_o leave_v what_o i_o have_v say_v to_o the_o impartial_a reader_n desire_v he_o to_o judge_v by_o it_o whether_o private_a christian_n be_v rational_a man_n yea_o man_n endue_v with_o god_n spirit_n and_o thereby_o capable_a of_o understand_v the_o will_n of_o god_n in_o the_o scripture_n may_v not_o according_a to_o the_o ability_n give_v they_o and_o in_o their_o place_n seek_v for_o and_o deliver_v the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n and_o whether_o this_o be_v any_o undervalue_v of_o god_n wisdom_n and_o providence_n or_o do_v direct_o tend_v to_o absurd_a and_o extravagant_a impiety_n chap._n xi_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n by_o the_o word_n roman_n say_v you_o be_v not_o only_o comprise_v the_o inhabitant_n of_o that_o particular_a territory_n of_o rome_n but_o likewise_o all_o christian_n in_o the_o world_n that_o acknowledge_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n for_o their_o chief_a pastor_n appoint_v by_o christ_n to_o govern_v his_o flock_n answ_n 1._o it_o may_v well_o be_v doubt_v what_o acknowledgement_n you_o mean_v whether_o a_o acknowledgement_n de_fw-fr facto_fw-la or_o de_fw-fr jure_fw-la only_o if_o you_o mean_v by_o roman_a church_n be_v only_o comprise_v those_o who_o do_v actual_o acknowledge_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n for_o their_o chief_a pastor_n you_o overthrow_v its_o universality_n it_o be_v not_o then_o catholic_n for_o only_o a_o part_n of_o the_o west_n make_v this_o acknowledgement_n the_o eastern_a church_n whole_o and_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o western_a do_v disclaim_v his_o supremacy_n and_o worship_v not_o the_o image_n of_o the_o beast_n nor_o receive_v his_o name_n in_o their_o forehead_n yea_o if_o you_o consult_v antiquity_n you_o shall_v find_v that_o there_o never_o be_v a_o actual_a acknowledgement_n of_o the_o pope_n as_o chief_a pastor_n by_o all_o christian_a church_n there_o be_v other_o patriarch_n beside_o he_o who_o have_v their_o several_a distinct_a limit_n 5._o azor._n inst_z mor._n p._n 2._o l._n 3._o c._n 35._o q._n 5._o viz._n the_o patriarch_n of_o constantinople_n alexandria_n antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n some_o of_o who_o limit_n be_v no_o less_o than_o the_o roman_a patriarch_n and_o who_o power_n do_v extend_v to_o the_o constitute_v ordain_v and_o confirm_v bishop_n archbishop_n and_o other_o ecclesiastical_a officer_n as_o your_o azorius_fw-la testify_v yea_o so_o independent_a be_v the_o power_n of_o each_o of_o they_o upon_o other_o that_o none_o of_o they_o be_v to_o meddle_v in_o another_o patriarchat_n as_o its_o prove_a out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o constantinople_n can_n 2._o by_o the_o learned_a scultetus_n who_o also_o clear_o explain_v the_o sixth_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a to_o this_o purpose_n 418._o scult_a synlag_n medul_a theol._n patr._n p._n 418._o and_o answer_v the_o objection_n that_o papist_n make_v against_o it_o all_o that_o azorius_fw-la give_v to_o the_o pope_n be_v this_o inter_fw-la patriarchas_fw-la etc._n etc._n among_o the_o patriarch_n the_o pope_n of_o rome_n be_v chief_a to_o who_o as_o patriarch_n the_o western_a province_n and_o many_o land_n in_o the_o mediterranean_a sea_n towards_o the_o west_n be_v subject_a here_o be_v priority_n of_o order_n but_o no_o supreamacy_n of_o power_n over_o the_o other_o patriarch_n the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v power_n over_o all_o the_o city_n and_o place_n about_o rome_n as_o the_o nicen_n creed_n have_v it_o but_o not_o over_o his_o fellow_n patriarch_n or_o their_o city_n etc._n etc._n his_o power_n be_v provincial_a not_o ecumenical_a 2._o if_o you_o mean_v that_o by_o roman_a be_v comprise_v those_o who_o ought_v to_o acknowledge_v the_o pope_n for_o their_o chief_a pastor_n it_o will_v remain_v to_o be_v resolve_v who_o those_o be_v whether_o some_o particular_a part_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n or_o the_o whole_a the_o former_a you_o can_v grant_v but_o overthrow_n universality_n and_o set_v roman_a against_o catholic_a which_o you_o be_v use_v to_o conjoin_v in_o their_o predication_n of_o the_o church_n the_o late_a we_o can_v admit_v till_o you_o can_v effect_v a_o impossibility_n in_o prove_v that_o in_o the_o language_n of_o the_o ancient_n the_o catholic_a church_n be_v couch_v under_o the_o word_n roman_n it_o be_v evident_a that_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v sometime_o by_o the_o ancient_n dignify_v with_o a_o general_n and_o common_a attribute_n and_o be_v call_v catholic_a church_n but_o i_o never_o read_v that_o the_o universal_a church_n be_v couch_v under_o a_o particular_a appellation_n as_o a_o proper_a predicate_v thereof_o i_o say_v a_o proper_a predicate_fw-la for_o i_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o church_n in_o scripture_n be_v call_v zion_n and_o jerusalem_n but_o these_o be_v only_o figurative_a expression_n of_o it_o it_o be_v never_o call_v the_o church_n of_o zion_n or_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n though_o it_o may_v rather_o be_v call_v so_o then_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o the_o roman_a church_n the_o scripture_n never_o take_v notice_n of_o rome_n when_o it_o speak_v of_o the_o catholic_a church_n except_o as_o a_o enemy_n 2._o notwithstanding_o i_o shall_v suppose_v that_o you_o mean_v of_o they_o that_o actual_o submit_v to_o the_o pope_n and_o thus_o you_o distinguish_v the_o roman_a church_n from_o all_o schismatical_a company_n of_o christian_n whether_o protestant_n or_o other_o this_o company_n say_v you_o together_o with_o the_o say_a bishop_n compose_v and_o make_v up_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n answer_v 1._o the_o truth_n of_o this_o will_v appear_v by_o your_o argument_n which_o you_o bring_v for_o the_o proof_n of_o it_o the_o argument_n be_v these_o which_o i_o shall_v consider_v of_o in_o the_o order_n i_o find_v they_o propound_v 1._o argument_n that_o company_n of_o christian_n compose_v and_o make_v up_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n to_o which_o the_o definition_n of_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n do_v agree_v but_o the_o definition_n of_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n do_v agree_v to_o the_o above_o mention_v company_n therefore_o they_o compose_v and_o make_v up_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n p._n 72._o 73._o answ_n if_o you_o speak_v of_o a_o exact_a and_o perfect_a definition_n wherein_o the_o definition_n be_v adequate_a to_o the_o thing_n define_v agree_v full_o to_o it_o and_o not_o to_o any_o thing_n else_o i_o subscribe_v to_o your_o major_a proposition_n but_o deny_v
in_o all_o point_n with_o themselves_o therefore_o be_v not_o protestant_n the_o ground_n of_o your_o major_n must_v needs_o be_v this_o protestant_n hold_v in_o all_o point_n with_o themselves_o we_o grant_v and_o thankful_o accept_v of_o your_o major_a proposition_n together_o with_o its_o foundation_n and_o desire_v you_o will_v remember_v it_o when_o you_o come_v to_o tell_v we_o of_o our_o division_n 2._o for_o your_o minor_n 1._o it_o be_v verify_v of_o their_o adversary_n the_o author_n you_o mention_v as_o i_o have_v particular_o show_v 2._o there_o be_v reason_n to_o think_v they_o hold_v at_o least_o in_o all_o main_a point_n with_o themselves_o 1._o because_o of_o the_o testimony_n of_o rainerus_n who_o say_v they_o believe_v right_o concern_v god_n and_o all_o other_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n 2._o because_o they_o be_v man_n of_o good_a part_n and_o very_o pious_a 3._o because_o your_o assertion_n of_o their_o dissent_n be_v only_o general_a when_o you_o show_v the_o particular_n i_o shall_v endeavour_v their_o vindication_n 2._o you_o answer_v suppose_v they_o protestant_n there_o be_v a_o great_a distance_n between_o they_o and_o the_o apostle_n in_o which_o they_o can_v not_o be_v mention_v forasmuch_o as_o they_o be_v not_o begin_v or_o be_v quite_o extinct_a answ_n 1._o if_o you_o speak_v of_o they_o as_o waldenses_n that_o be_v particular_a person_n follower_n of_o waldus_n i_o grant_v there_o be_v a_o distance_n betwixt_o they_o and_o the_o apostle_n thus_o if_o you_o consider_v of_o your_o present_a pope_n it_o be_v as_o true_a that_o he_o be_v none_o of_o peter_n successor_n there_o be_v a_o great_a distance_n between_o he_o and_o the_o apostle_n peter_n in_o which_o he_o can_v not_o be_v mention_v forasmuch_o as_o he_o be_v not_o then_o in_o be_v but_o 2._o if_o you_o speak_v of_o they_o as_o to_o their_o profession_n of_o the_o reform_a religion_n not_o confine_v your_o speech_n to_o those_o particular_a person_n but_o extend_v to_o all_o that_o profess_v the_o same_o religion_n with_o they_o than_o there_o be_v no_o distance_n between_o they_o and_o the_o apostle_n as_o i_o shall_v show_v when_o i_o come_v to_o your_o four_o shape_n 3._o what_o you_o mean_v by_o their_o be_v quite_o extinct_a i_o know_v not_o sure_o you_o do_v not_o take_v they_o to_o be_v jewish_a heretic_n that_o be_v extinct_a before_o the_o apostle_n and_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o that_o after_o their_o rise_n notwithstanding_o the_o fury_n of_o papist_n which_o bring_v many_o misery_n upon_o they_o they_o can_v never_o be_v extinct_a as_o the_o french_a historian_n above_o mention_a show_n but_o thus_o much_o for_o your_o first_o shape_n shape_n ii_o luther_n descend_v from_o catholic_n catholic_n from_o the_o apostle_n therefore_o protestant_n have_v their_o original_a from_o the_o apostle_n they_o derive_v themselves_o uninterrupted_o from_o luther_n to_o this_o you_o answer_v answ_n protestant_n derivation_n from_o luther_n be_v frivolous_a and_o of_o no_o weight_n luther_n want_v episcopal_a authority_n without_o which_o all_o ordination_n be_v null_n and_o frustrate_a by_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o chief_n protestant_n themselves_o see_v saravia_n sutcliffe_n bilson_n andrew_n white_a mason_n montague_n hall_n and_o other_o rep._n 1._o protestant_n derivation_n from_o luther_n be_v of_o weight_n for_o any_o thing_n you_o do_v say_v against_o it_o it_o be_v most_o false_a that_o without_o episcopal_a authority_n all_o ordination_n be_v null_n and_o frustrate_a for_o 1._o ordination_n itself_o be_v not_o of_o absolute_a necessity_n for_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o pastor_n in_o some_o case_n a_o man_n may_v preach_v the_o word_n without_o it_o so_o do_v origen_n who_o practice_n be_v justify_v by_o divers_a bishop_n cameron_n full_o assert_v this_o 4.11_o euseb_n eccl._n hist_o l._n 6._o c._n 20._o cam._n myroth_n in_o eph._n 4.11_o that_o private_a man_n without_o formal_a ordination_n may_v teach_v and_o feed_v 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