some truth in times of Ignorance the lâ—…ght was though not so totally and terribly as to the rest of the world much ecclipsed ore now it is and that promised manifestative presence of Christ not a little interdicted and communion with him interrupted by the interposition of that smoak which comming out of the bottomless pit clouded the suâ—… and thickned the aire and as Christ himself foretold also it should be Iohn 14. 30. by the intervening of the Prince of the darkness of this world who was to have his time wherein to darken all things and had it too so that by his delusive wiles the whole world was won to be once an Arrian and after that an Antichristian worshipping the Dragon and the Beast wondering and erring all together into one Catholique Church-body called Christendome and by common consent bearing the whore or false Ministery called Clergy warring at her will against the Saints and though not finally for so the gates of hell cannot yet â—…or a long time prevailing against them that dwell in heaven Rev. 13. 4 5 6 7. In all which time nevertheless as I said before some truths were revealed to some and so much to such as then sought to Christ and not to men as may well serve to verify Christs words and justify all the promises of his presence with his people as to the true purport of them as yea and Amen Babist But where was your Church then all this while till these latter times Baptist. Where it was to be according to the word of prophecy Rev. 11. 1. viz. troden underfoot for 1260 years by the nominall Christians or Gentiles coming by the lump into the outer Court i. e. into a bare name and feigned form of Christianity after the time of Constantine at the compulsive call of the Clergy since when though there have been an number of Saints in sackcloth that have seen much light from Christ and suffered for it yet I am so far from undertaking to prove there was that I am rather of the mind there was not nor was to be if the word be true any truly collected truly constituted visible Churches at all in right outward form and order standing upon that true foundation i.e. the principles of the Doctrine of Christ and the primitive prophets and Apostles for many ages upwards even from the Clergies carrying the Church captive into Babylon unto these daies wherein the foundation Heb. 6. 1. 2. with Eph. 2. 20. 21. 22. which hath been razed is laid again and the measuring line gone forth upon the Temple is in the hands of the true Zerubbabel Christ Iesus who shall also finish it not by Army nor by strength but by my spirit saith the Lord of Hosts If this answer be not satisfactory that our Churches are true ones unless I can prove a lineal succession of them from the Apostles times to these let me see what lineal succession is of your Churches from the Apostles daies if I ask you Praelatick Priests as the Masse Priests do where was your Church before Luther and you Presbyterians where was your Church before Calvin in both whose daies you cannot deny but that of those that denyed infant-baptism there were abundance must you not needs see both your Churches swallowed up in the Sea of Rome and for ages and generations together making one with that were not the two little heads of the Roman Eagle spoken of 2 Esdras 11. 12. which are the two smaller kingdomes of the Clergy i. e. Prelacy and Presbytery making one head with the great one i. e. the Popedome till of late they separated from him First sure I am you may labour till you are weary and look till your eyes fail before you find a series of visible protestant Churches before Luther and as universal as you Protestant priesthood do proclaim your selves and your Church to have been yet I tell you t will puzzle you to derive your pedigree from the Apostles if the Pope put you to prove it by induction and ennumeration of Churches succeeding without interruption unless you will own him to be your father as to your Clericall function you are fain to do Whereupon in the book stiled Luthers predecessors or an answer to the question of the Papists viz. Where was your Church before Luther p. 3. 4. I find it ingenuously acknowledged by the nameless Author thereof in his undertaking to answer that question That if the Papistry the Protestant to assign any visible constituted Church which might have been known by the distinction and succession of Bishops Elders Deacons c. the task is unequal and that records of such a thing are wanting insomuch that he puts it off in replying to the Papists thus That they cannot prove that the Church must alwaies be in such manner visible that in Elias time there were 7000 unknown to him much more to Ahab that in Christs passion some papists say the Church was in Mary the Church being like the Moon allwaies lasting yet not alwaies in the full And then in resolution to the quaere it self alledges not any one protestant Church at all but onely here and there a Protestant professor as Wickliff and such mostly as were after him inlightned by his Doctrine and did suffer for giving testimony thereto so the â—…esuitish question is thus answered I find it also thereupon the â—…le that in a conference which was once held upon the same question by Dr. White and Dr. Featley against two others viz. Fisher and Sweet Dr. Featley chose rather to prove a continual succession of protestants by the truth of their doctrine then the truth of the Protestant Churches and doctrine by a perpetuity of succession and so doth that Author himself who ever it was that wrote the answer to that papistical question as well aware that protestant Churches cannot prove themselves true by succession p. 1. 2. What saith he if we could not prove that the English Church was before Luther Must it needs follow that the doctrine we hold is untrue or shall the doctrine of Rome be ever the truer because of Antiquitie only No certainly And why not because the Church must be proved and allowed by the doctrine and not the Doctrine authorized by the Church which the Papists a people wise in their generation well knowing have overturned the course of Nature and will have the Scripture and all doctrine to hang upon the determination of the Church hoping that if once they have amazed any one with the name of the Church and driven him from title and interest in the Church before Luthers time they shall easily call in question the whole frame of the doctrine of the reformed Churches So that we see the Protestants are faln to fence off the papists arguments from universality Antiquity perpetuity in which Rome outstrips the reformed Churches with pleading only the verity of their doctrine and its being persecuted in some few professors of it before Luther Yea verily
his heart to the grief of it another way that the power and purity of Christs ordinances are a 1000 fold more strictly stickled for according to the Covenant by us then by all those Orthodox ones he talks of who the more shame for them do so zealously and constantly oppose us we therefore cannot rationally be denominated Hereticks and Sciasmaticks in separating from and practising contrary to you in the point of baptism so long as we keep close to the primitive truth gladly both preaching and receiving the word as t is preacht by Peter Act. 2. â—…aying repent and be baptized every one of you repenting and being baptized accordingly and after that continuing in the rest of the Apostles doctrine and fellowship in breaking of bread and prayers and though we draw never so many disciples from you after us yet the man is out of his Christian wits that deputes and declares this to be Heresie and Schism sith so far are we herein from rending from and refusing to be reduced to the Church that we indeed earnestly endeavour to reduce them to the true Church to the true head Christ the true constitution the true Baptism and Gospel order from which they are rent and run astray wondring after a false Church a false head viz. a Lording Priesthood and Parochial posture both which derive all their being from Dâ—…ephes i. e. his prating Preheminence the Pope But now as for your selves the PPPriesthood of the Nations who mostly deny not but that the primitive baptism was of believers and dispenst in Rivers or places of much water which was needlesse if sprinkling was then the way you have a thing among you indeed which you call Baptism but t is not that one Baptism that old Baptism then urged and used but another a new Baptism and yet to say the truth neither another nor A new Baptism but A-no-Baptism Rantism Babism a toy of your own taking up by tradition from your forefathers but not the first fathers that were the founders of the Christian Church for you find it not there but fetch it further from thence by such consequence as besides the remotnesse of it is too weak and rotten to carry it downwards to these times you are they that dissent and rend from the truth in this point of baptism and draw all the world to Sectarize and erre after you by a law by your subpaena directories yea you pretendedly reforming Presbyters who peculiarize the term of Orthodox to your selves even you as to the right administration of the outward right of baptism are not a whit lesse Erratical Heretical Schismatical and Heterodox then the Pope for as he hath another baptism then that which was in the primitive times viz. infant rantism which by the mouth of his cardinal Bellarmine he confesses to be but a tradition of the Church so you have no other then the same yea you own that for good baptism which is done at Rome or else how to prove the Popish Bishops to be baptized themselves that baptized and ordained you Presbyters you plainly know not yet you falsely father it upon Christ and fain it to be an ordinance of his then which nothing is more clear then that it is not And as in point of baptism you all erre not knowing or at least not doing according to the Scriptures all means used to reduce you thereunto notwithstanding so in the supper and many more matters pertaining to that visible Church order that was in those times as namely impropriating to your selves sole power of speaking in your Churches i. e. steeple-houses so that your members may well say men mutire nefas it is not for them to open their mouthes there unlesse to answer when you catechise them whereas then all the Church were to covet to prophesie i. e. to speak mutually to the exhortation edification and comfort each of other and being gifted might all women onely excepted prophesie one by one and every one minister as of the ability God gave them great or small that God in all things might be glorified and all judge of the doctrine delivered but with you what doctrine ere ye deliver men may try it if they will but must take it whether they will or no the mouths of all must be muzzled up save such as in your sense are ministers i. e. have some Parchment Preachment orders to shew from such as can shew their orders from his Highnesse the head of the Church not Christ but his Holinesse the Pope who had his from the beast Rev. 17. who had his from the devill Rev. 13. yea verily as to the external face and fashion of the first Churches you have altogether altered it from what it was and brought in a businesse of your own heads being all gone aside and altogether become vain in your wayes as to your administrations of Gospel ordinances so that there is none of you that are in the right way of the primitive Churches no not one yea ye are separated from and make a head against the true head of the Church Christ Jesus and take upon you to head the Church your selves for this is not the fault of P the Pope onely but of PP i. e. you Prelates and Presbyters too who howbeit you seem to throw off that supremacy or headship which the Pope had once and laies claim to still in the protestant part of Christ'ndom yet in your several Christ'ndoms you have been not nominally but really as supreme in Church work as he and that not over the people onely but civil powers also to whom in all cases Ecclesiasticall and civill though you say you grant the headship or Supreame Government under Christ yet how doth that appear sith they only Corrective but you Directive till of late have done all for the Bishops and Sinods and General Convocations of the Clergy and assemblies of the Kirk seeundum te must determine what is to be done by Magistrates in Church affairs and they do it accordingly The Priests must give out the word and sentence what is the worship the way the faith the truth what Heresy and Schism who are Hereticks and Schismaticks and then the Princes in all their Dominions establish the one and root out the other as Rogues at their appointment in which cases saving the bare name of supremacy over the Churches which hath been allowed it is difficult to me to discern whether Christian Kings have not been as of old under the Popedome so more lately under the very Protestant Clergy as the Bosholder under the Constable at his discretion direction to whip the beggars and though you may say and so saies the Pope too that you claim to head and order the Church directive no otherwise then under Christ yet in very deed as he for all his saying so you have presumed to set your selves above Christ the only head Counseller Lord and Lawgiver to his Church for as the Pope hath done no more then
have been smothered in your Account and gave life to it indeed onely to vindicate the truth of it from your mis-reports Pre. Onely to vindicate its innocency from their injuries c. Post. It s innocency is a matter which It was never too much guilty of in one sense though it had enough of it in another for howbeit Deo prohibente it neitheir could nor did ever do any yet it wanted no will to have done a mischief to the truth and in that respect as very an Innocent as it was most honest men do hold it guilry Pre. Besides the importunities of many friends desiring copies of it not without much reluctancy for a good while prov'd the mid-wives to this hasty birth c. Post. This hasty birth me thinks indeed it looks like some untimely issue that brake forth in hâ—…st into the world as one born out of due time order and proportion that slipt out at the rash request of some few friends whilst those whose work it was and care it should have been to have look't better to it were asleep and therefore who ere were the mid-wives may I be one of the Gossips I shall freely allow it among others that are answerable to its nature this name of hasty birth and had you signed it in the forehead with capital letters instead of A True Account by the name of THIS HASTY BIRTH you had done the world more right by th' half then now you have for then your frontispice had been at least A true Account of your Book though your Book no True Account of the Disputation Canis festinans caecos parit catulos hasty Bearers seldome bring forth other then such blind businesses as this which may not be seen for shame without much Reluctancy nor when they must without much Apology This hast Sirs makes you make wast in your Papers as well as wast sometimes in your practises as Saul who in hast made havock of the Church you came in hast to the Disputation and that made you leave Innumerable Arguments behind you for there might be innummerable Arguments brought but the hast of the Disputation forbad the Ministers to be so throwly provided c. say you p. 11 12. you ran in hast to give Account on 't and for hast left it all out but a little THIS HASTY BIRTH of yours was born about six moneths after it was in semine at the Disputation had you forborn three moneths longer and spent more time in recalling raking reviewing there had not been such a miscarriage your birth would have had some substance more then now it hath some more suitableness to sense and Reason you would have accounted for some Answers as well as but some Arguments and sav'd your selves that acknowledgement which upon the after sight of your hast defect and oversight you are fain to make in most parts of this Epistle But Insipientis est dicere non putâram Sapientis discere per non putâram though it be no wise mans part to fall unawares into folly yet is it a wise mans part to learn wisdome by his own folly and so I hope you will shew your selves wisemen at least viz. in learning by the more hast then good speed of this hasty birth festinare lentè for the time to come and never to bring forth so hastily any more Pre. It had nothing to boast of but the sober and silent demeanour of the Congregation while it lasted it being a thing scarce credible that so many some have guessed them about 3000 and so qualified should attend with so much devotion without any interruption by the space of six hours c. Post. Tâ—…s a thing scarce credible indeed to him that hath either seen or heard how much commotion the Testimony of the true Baptism hath been elsewhere entertained and attended with that it should here among so many and those so qualifyed too i. e. with great prejudice against it as Heresie and that so long too be attended with so much devotion and therefore it hath much more to boast of then such disputations as have been held in some parts of England which I am loath to shame so as to name even of old England it self in this juncture of its growing new but specially of New-England that is now growing old again apace as old England did in the Bishops times in order I hope to its growing newer then ever where horesco Referens I tremble to relate it after many incivilities and much barbarous behavior not long since used toward them this was added above all that three witnesses to this truth were shut up in prison and not only so but according to Mâ—… Cottons Bloody tenet of persecution for conscience which even he himself abhorred in the Bishops meerly for no other fault then that of the Apostles at Phillippi Act. 16. instead of a disputation with them which was pretended to be desired but never intended to be performed by the Anti-Baptists the Baptists had a dispensation granted them by the Court at Boston either to pay one five one twenty another thirty pound or to be well whipt which they pleased upon refusing of which fine to be paid or by himself or by others for him who would as well have set him free at their own charge if he had accepted it as they did the others one of the three submitting patiently to their cruelty in order to his being restored in the spirit of meekness aliâs Romish mercilessness towards that Romish childishness of Infant rantism received thirty stripes at the whipping post in such wise as may well make the cars of every on that hears it to tingle and the hearts of Christs Disciples to stand amazed and bleed within them that ever such a thing should be heard out of New-England as is to be seen at large in a book lately extant stiled Ill News from New England Lord where shall thy Servants live at peace salvâ conscientiâ if thou lend them not a full liberty to declare against Tythes and all other truth-voiding traditions in Old England when they are so bloodily handled in New where Father forgive them they know not what they do Nevertheless had the demeanour of you the Priests at Ashford been as sober and silent as that of the people as it seldome is when a Classis of you get together much less was it at Ashford where you grew into a Chaos of conference and a confused croud of disputation it had had much more to boast of then it hath Pre. The Scandals that have since been cast upon it were expected c. Post. And well they might unless you reckoned without your Host if you scand the Scantines of the provision you made both for your credit and the proof of your practise but what Scandalls I trow were cast upon your Disputation here 's a great talk of Disgraces Scandals Injuries that its under as from us but unless summum jus be summa injuria we
answeâ—…ed again in Mr. Blackwoodâ—… rejoinder p. 30. Nor yet to speak of the jarrs that are between the grounds upon which our modern Dieines plead infant baptism and those of the antient fathers as Cyprian and such others viz. his 66. Bishops which are so filly and ridiculously superstitious that I am perswaded our Divines who live in these dayes wherein truth is comming from under those clouds which then it was comming under are ashamed of them and therefore invent what new ones they can and let them alone thus mangling the Fathers and quaâ—…rtering to their own use what they please out of them and even deifying some whilest they defy others of their sayings receiving their words and witnesse in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that infant-baptism ought to be as right and rare rejecting their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or reasons why it should be as unsound too rank stark nought refuse and rotten but not to meddle I say with these discoâ—…ds here my intent is rather have patience with mâ—… whilst I do it but do it I must whether you take it patiently or no to discover the deep discord that is between you modern Divines among your selves which till you are better agreed will make you uncapable of ever subjecting others again unto your dictates in infants baptism Babist Is it not a marvel that so many eminent Divines industrious in the study of this Argument should so unanimously jar with their own principles and not be able to discern it but all those many must leave it to you to discover it Baptist. So saies Mr. Blake indeed p. 41. of his repulse in a luâ—…ory way to Mr. Blackwood to whom I seriously reply yea t is a mighty marvel indeed to see such an heap of witnesses concur so well together by the years as all your famous Oxthodoxists do in their dâ—…ctrine about infant bapâ—…ism some teaching one thing others clean contradictory â—…o that and yet all remaining orthodox still for all this Really Sirs such a shamefull conjunglement is to be found in your positions about the grounds you profess to go upon in this point as will in time though now you will not see it make you all amazed one at another that ever such a marvellous work and wonder should faâ—…l out among you as in the just judgement of God for your teaching his fear after mens precepts there doth at this day viz such a hiding of understanding from the prudent that even the princes of Zoan should be befooled confounded contradicted by none more then themselves and yet not take notice of it Sirs you had need to Synodize one year more and to Catechise one another into a little more Concordâ—…nce about your principles before you Catechetically impose that practise upon whole nations unless your grounds were more agreeable then they are with both the word and each other for some of you preach up that your practise and plead it with all your might from 1 Cor. 7. 14. taking the word hoâ—…y there as it stands in Deut. 7. 6-14 2-26 19. and other places where it is most evident that it signifies a people consecrated to God in the same way as the Priests Temple Altar Sacrifices and all things then under the law were and now nothing at all is and yâ—… I have known some of you again that have acknowledged the words sanctifyed and holy in 1 Cor. 7. 14. cannot be taken in any such sense but in that very sense wherein we take them yet supposing infants-baptism to follow from other places Some of you preach it up and plead it with all your might from Mark 10. â—…3 c. as if you did believe and would make folks believe that the children that were then brought to Christ were baptized either by him or his disciples and truly if you believe it not what is that Scripture then to your purpose nay it makes more strongly against you for if these very infants that were brought to and blessed by Christ himself to whom you say he declared the Kingdome to belong were not baptized your presumption is very high who dare baptize other infants of whom you have no such testimony yea some of you say that their bringing to Christ for imposition of hands doth suppose them to have been baptized before they came I wonder by whom witnesse Dr. Holmes p. 61. 63. yet some of you again confesse the contrary viz. Mr. â—…otton p. 9 of his grounds and ends whom Dr. Holmes so justifies and magnifies who in confutation of him saies thus That it doth not appear that the Fathers that brought these infants were baptized themselves and therefore neither might their children be baptized according to rule And yet both Mr. Cotton and his neighbour Mr. Cobbet also and eveâ—… every one else almost that writes or speaks as well as you Ashford Disputants make mighty ado but nihil ad rhombum from that place also Some of you plead the sprinkling of believers infants for none else must be sprinkled by the Popes confession only he takes believers not in so strict a sense as some do from Aâ—…t 2. 39. suppoâ—…ing that those to whom Peter said the promise is to you and to your children were believers and already in the faith even then when he thus bespake them which if they were t were nothing to your matter witness Mr. Vahan of Smarden at the Dispute at Aâ—…hford whose Arguments being it seems none of the most material are excluded from your Account whose supposition was supported with a position as false and silly as it self yet is it a maxime with the Clergy that was then blerted out from among you viz that the desire of grace is grace in refutation of which your doctrine appeal was made by your Respondent to the people whether the desire of Drink was Drink and whether because they all desired to go to heaven therefore they were at heaven others again acknowledge the truth in this viz. that the men were yet in unbelief while Peter spake that to them as Mr. Cotton p. 35. of his grounds who saith thus when he calleth man to believe or to repent he cometh to them not as having faith and repentance but as wanting both and Mr. Prigg also who hastiâ—…g into the help of Mr. Vahan at the Ashford disputation happily more then heartily help the Respondent against Mr. Vahan and himself too by his plain contradiction of the other and conjunction with the Respondent in that viz. that the men to whom Peter then spake in presenti the promise is to you and your children c. were not yet in the faith but the promise was made to them as they who yet did not should believe i. e. in futuro for by your favour Gentlemen if it be thus then it should seem and so t was told you then but you would not hear it that the promise of remission of sins though it be made good to believers and none else no not to
and his Angels did now prevail against him and his cruel Cutthroats so that place must be no more found for them in heaven i. e. the high places of power in the Empire and that he could execute his wrath now no longer by them against the saints as Christians a Christian being now come to the Crown he had no other remedy now then to play his cards about another way and turn Christian also himself that he might have the fairer advantage to crush the true Christians that kept the commands of God and the faith of Jesus under the new nicknames of Hereticks Schismaticks c. that would not obey the orders of the Church insomuch that who but the devill who so busie as he now to have Christian Bishops favoured cherished advanced honoured with all the honours that might be next to that of the very Crown Imperial it self who so earnest as he to have all the world brought about by all means possible and in all the hast to become Christians and to become one holy Catholick Christian Church and so within a while Deo permittente non approbante having set forth the beast or Roman Empire in another shape and christned it with the name of Christendome he scrambles up his Kingdome to himself again makes over his power seat and great authority to this beast thus transformed and this beast gives it all up to the Whore he sets him up a Vicar General and names him the Vicar of Christ the head of the Church Bishop of the Universal See and such like and by him and the Ministers of Christ that issued from him fills all the earth with abomination and reigns with as full force though not so open face but under a mask having all things in a kind of apish imitation of Christs kingdome to the suppressing of the truth as in former daies he had done and all this came to passe through this sin of self love in the Clergy which as it grew great so love to the truth grew smaller and smaller till it came to be totally extinguisht and the light of it wholly ecclipsed from the earth for when the good man Constantine in his zeal to the truth gave them great Revenues to which other princes added more still according to the voice that was then heard in the aire viz. 〈◊〉 veneâ—… insusum est ecclesiae so it sell out for the Cleâ—…y fell to make much of themselves and things of the earth to serve and seek their own interests fell to wrangling and jangling about Primacy Superiority who should be universall Bishop and such base unworthy abominable and self-pleasing practises so that the truth took no more place in their hearts from then ceforth for ever From thenceforth they began to grow in high esteem of themselves and not only to fancy but also to inveagle both Princes and people to fancy some perfection holinesse choicenesse spiritualnesse and purity in them more then in all other men and to distinguish themselves from the people by their garbs and titles of Holy men of God the Spiritualty the Clergy or Heritage of God the Tribe of Levi the lot of Gods own inheritance the Priesthood Ghostly fathers Divines shutting out the people from sharing with them in these terms of honour which belong onely to Gods people whom of all the rest in the mean time they villyfyed with the names of Hereticks as if God himself had no â—…egard almost to any but themselves and did behold all manner of men but these Ministers afar off calling other princes and lords for the Clergy men were become lords and princes too now i. e. spiritual ones Temporall Princes Lords Temporall Secular men and the people the Laity Mechanicks that must not meddle with the Scripture so much as tolook in it for so it was in old time not so much as to take upon them to be skilled in it much lesse to speak out of it or expound or understand any otherwise then as these Divines say is the meaning of it yea under the raign of these latter Lords the Protestant CClergy though they have it in such plain English before their eyes yet what a horrible thing was it but a few years behind fancied by Featley and still is well nigh universally by the CClergy here in England who appropriate all the wisdome about the Scripture to themselves what a horrible thing I say for the people to talk on or have more to do with Scripture then to take it as the Priesthood gives the sense of it The Shoomaker goes not beyond his last nor the Taylor beyond his measure quoth he only the trade and well might he so call it for by that craft they have their wealth as handicrafts men theirs by other crafts of expounding Scripture is a mystery which every Artizan arrogateth to himself the Physitian here will be prescribing receipts the Lawyer will be demurring upon Dubi a Evangelica and every handicrafts man will be handling the pure word of God with impure and unwashed hands this the pratling huswife this the old dotard this the wrangling Sophister in a word this men of all profession and men of no profession take upon them to have skill in sic ille quid ni quaeso O Sacerdos what was the Scripture given for thee only to look in or wast thou set to keep people out from it under lock and key or may the spirit blow no where but where thou listest must not all people search it or must they search and find no more truth in it then thou findest or must they not take it into their mouths lest they defile it as Bishop Wren thought who prohibited the people to talk on it at their tables for fear they should prophane it It should seem so by Dr. Featley who cryed down the people as Asses Apron Levites Russet Raâ—…bies the Clergy of Lâ—…cks c. wondering that their dores and posts and walls did not sweat upon which any note was fixed to give notice of the exercises of men of any manual imployment yea t is a thousand pitties quoth he that such owls and bats and night birdâ—… as if the Clergy onely were the children of the day and the people the children of the night and darknesse should flutter in our Churches and silâ—… upon our fonts Pulpits and Communion Tables This was the cause of that great Schism of Corah Dathan and Abiram Numb 16. all the congregation is holy But this is the cause of that schism of Pope Prelate and Presbyter from the primitive freedome that gifted Disciples whether offiâ—…ers or no had to speak to exhortation edification comfort and that the congregation then had to admonish her Ministers upon occasion Co. 4. 17. viz. all the congregation are prophane onely the Priesthood holy enough to draw neer within the rails and to preach to the people out of the Pulpit they are afraid I wot least the preaching of others there should sile and bewray it
truth in the people who before were wont to take their ware on trust without trial then then they can lay again while they live by all the shifts and subtleties they can devise for when once people are resolved to believe things to be heresie by heatsay no more but to fancy them according as they find them in the word and to see into the plainness of speech that is in the Scripture with their own eyes they see so much disproportion between the national Church wayes and those of the primitive Churches of the Gospel that they commonly resolve not to see at all adventures through the unclear eyes of CCClergy men any more This makes them fieâ—… and fume and fain and fiddle hither and thither which way to fasten their Heretical opinions further if it be possible on them in whom they they stick and into whose hearts they have eaten fowl healthless holes already and to dâ—…ive them deeper even with hammer and nailes if they can tell how or else to cleave whole Countries asunder with beetle and wedges Heresie is said by the Apostle to fret like a canker so that it is not the clearness nor yet the coolness nor yet the heat of a disputation can correct it in some mens hearts the tongue may heal any poisoned wound with licking of it sooner then that which the Heretick the Pope and the Priesthood hath made so deeply hath he found his heresies in the dark cells of some mens implicit consciences Athauastus his disputation with Arrius and Austins with Manichaeus are sufficient Instances Indeed it is not possible to expect any good fruit from those former grounds as to the CCClergie themselves and such of their CCCreatures as stand bent to believe all they say and never doubt it though otherwise much good may come to others that are inquisitive by disputation with them or that he which is possessed with self love and hunts so greedily after glory or gain as the CCClergie does should be perswaded to hearken to any reason which contradicts his principles or to disclaim that wase which must advance his design What is the result of this discourse to forbid all disputation with HHHim no by no means it is necessary to stop the clamors of the adversarie to the truth who will cry out victoria if his challenge be not answered and make our silence be a confession of the truth on his side if he be not stoutly encountred with Saint Austin who was in his time called Malleus hereticorum of whom it is said that he never went so willingly to a feast as to a conference when Pascentins the Arrian bragd that he had worsted him in his dispute and those believed it which desired it yet gave not out from disputing but was onely careful to set down his disputations in writing for the future that the truth might appear vindicated from thofe false reports with which commonly it is blasted either by word or else by some such true counterfeit Accounts in print as that which is at this day extant of the disputation held at Ashford A Disputation orderly carried soberly proceeded with without heats and distempered passions not suffered to go out of its due bounds nor to follow every new sent that is taken up by the way nor to degenerate into quarrellings and hasty fals chargings of the Anabaptists as this and that they know not what without proving them such or disproving their doctrines as if others do not I do know more then one place where and where more then once too it hath been so will contribute much to the clearing of truth the begetting of doubts in them that yet never doubted but blindly believed the contrary The removing of doubts in them that are already in doubts about it and putting it out of all doubt to them all in the end that all is not so well yet as it ought to be with the very reforming Clergy and that their parochial posture is popish and their constitution ordination administrations baptism and the supper is all disorderly and out of joint to the confâ—…rming of the strong that stand fast in the true faith the recovery of the laps't world that hath departed from the faith Gospel Baptism Church order which was once delivered to the Saints and been seduced from Christ by the Scholastical incroachments of the CCClergy and as it may chance in time if the civil powers that have preferred them would come once to favour the truth the convincing the SSSeducer it is rare so to mannage one among an unskilful multitude where the auditors take themselves no lesse engaged then their champions and will be ready on all hands too much but an 100 fold more for ought I find among the parochial party then the other disorderly to break the lists which hath made so many able Scholars not in mans onely but in Christs School also almost averse from undertaking it but unless their be sufficient caution against such exorbitatances as jangling with bells to drownd all audience of truth and counter speeches of non-sense rather then nothing to interrupt him that is about to speak the truth and noise of shouting if it were possible to shame the truth and such like geer as I have met with in my daies better be no disputation at all nor preaching of truth among such it being if not a giving of that which is holy to dogs and casting of pearles before swine which will turn again and rent you yet at least impossible any thing should come of it that good is and yet even that shall be no hurt to the Ministers of Christ that are approved in tumults yet cannot help it but blasphemy to the truth stumbling to the weak parishioners that stumble enough already poor souls the Lord help them to see their preachers violently oppose preaching and proving the truth out of the Scriptures a kind of shamefull Glory to the adversaries of the truth the PPPriesthood from some a glorious shame to the undertakers for it There is therefore a better way for the true Pastors of the true Churches and specially the Churches messengers to the world in which to oppose the approach of heresies which the parish Pastors make mickle use of to oppose the truth by under the names of Anabaptism at least in their Respective flocks and that is by preaching To argue substantially against them to convince them soundly is the best in the pulpit if they can freely get in a place wherein one might have hid ones self for a month together or more and sometimes a year from some parish Priests non-resident Parsons divinity Doctors but specially the lazy Lord Bishops not very long since but now to keep out the Anabaptists more frequented by some Priests then else it would be a place which is secured much and yet not alwayes neither when plain truth tellers are in it from those incursions to which disputations are subject It is worth observation that