Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	bishop_n	church_n	succession_n	1,636	5	10.2155	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A08891	The fal of Babel By the confusion of tongues directly proving against the Papists of this, and former ages; that a view of their writings, and bookes being taken; cannot be discerned by any man living, what they would say, or how be vnderstoode, in the question of the sacrifice of the masse, the reall presence or transubstantiation, but in explaning their mindes they fall vpon such termes, as the Protestants vse and allow. Further in the question of the Popes supremacy is shevved, how they abuse an authority of the auncient father St. Cyprian, a canon of the I Niceene counsell, and the ecclesiastical historie of Socrates, and Sozomen. And lastly is set downe a briefe of the sucession of Popes in the sea of Rome for these 1600 yeeres togither; ... By Iohn Panke.	Panke, John.	1608 (1608)	STC 19171; ESTC S102341	167,339	204

sinketh not into my head that men otherwise learned and verie religious should so wilfully hood wincke themselues against the truth as in this last declaration it seemeth you meane they doe for besides their owne words and few of their bookes haue I yet seene in iustification of themselues I see a famous Catholike Church of theires I meane Rome who hath bin and yet is renowned for succession of Bishops This hath bin and yet is maketh all the error Iulius Caesar was once faithful to the Romans but affecting Soue ranitie he cōtinued not so so the Church of Rome was agreat church amongst the rest But now it beareth witnes of it selfe as Simon Magus said That hee was some great mā Act 8.9 Their vsual tables in writing which they giue to their freinds containing a Catalogue of the Bish of Rome and continuance of Apostolike doctrine vvhose gouernor head is the Pope vvho keepeth it in the same integritie and soundnesse of doctrine that S. Peter our Lords cheife Apostle vvhose successor hee is did vvhen hee sate and ruled there as he doth now I tell you I haue a table of the Bishops of Rome from S. Peter to Climens the eight vvho latly deceased as the speech was You cannot shew me the like of any Church in the world but of that Al churches saue a fewe of late yeeares haue ever acknowledged that Church for the mother and head of them al and whatsoeuer was amisse vvas thither referred and determined therfore if you will oppose your selfe against them or their religion you had need bringe sound arguments or else they wil bee quickly confuted Rom. See now you require that of mee already vvhich you cannot performe your selfe To enterinto the discussing of the points of doctrine vvhich concerne either side you haue nether abilitie nor iudgment by reason you are but newly begun to be tutered by them And then if I shoulde of my selfe discourse of them vnto you you vvould in the end say of my labour therin as a merrie fellow in Wilteshire said of an hare in a course with his dogge when my dogge was let slip at the hare quoth he she went forth right was before my dogge some foure acres bredth But my dogge fetcht her and gaue her a turne and awaie she goes againe then he gaue her another and did beat her so that she had many turnes wrenches but in the end quoth he the hare went awaie and had nether turne nor wrench so if I should shew vnto you the vnsoūdnes of the doctrine of the church of Rome from scriptures Fathers Counsells Doctors yea of the intrusions of Bishops into that sea which you from them call succession you would giue me the hearing how soever I did beat the hare in giuing her manie wrentches turnes yet you would saie she went from me in the end and had nether turne nor wrentch I am not ignorant in what painted Cyphers In the 1. petition to his Maiestie Adde fidem dictis Ovid. Medea Ias the Catholikes did of late a greable to your report of them set forth their religion calling it venerable for antiquitie maiesticall for amplitude constant for continuance irreprehensible for doctrine inducing to all kind of vertue and pietie dissuading from all sin wickednesse A religiō beloued by all pri●…tiue Pastors established by all Oecumenicall counsells vpheld by al ancio●… doctors maintained by the first and most Christian Emperours recorded almost alone in all Ecclesiasticall histories sealed with the blood of millions of Martyres adorned with the vertues of so manie confessors beautified with the paritie of thousands of Virgins so conformable to naturall sence and reason and finally so agreable to be sacred text of Gods word and Gospell Of which speech of theirs I will saie noe otherwise nowe Cor. Tac. hist l. 2. c. 27. then Tacitus doth of Vitellius the Emperour of Rome in these words The daie following saith he as though he had spoken before the Senate and people of a strange Citty he made a glorious speech of himselfe extolling his owne industriousnesse and temperancie when as they vvhich hard him of their owne knowledge vvere witnesses of his lewd actions al Italy besides through which he marched for drowsinesse and riot notoriously infamous Two pillars wherof the Papists must rest Whitak cont Dureum l 9. de Sophia There are two notable pillars which vphold the Church of Rome in al her buildings vnknowen to you yet but herafter better may be against which if you leane they wil surely deceaue you on is The Church of Rome cannot erre whatsoeuer it teacheth the other The Bishop of Rome ought not to bee accused what soeuer he doe Vpon such pillars as these they maie reate what vvorke they wil and so they doe but it fareth with thē as it was wont to the false Prophets One buildeth vp an muddy wall Exech 13.10 and others dawbe it over with a rotten plaister But because it hath pleased God to bringe vs againe thus luckely to gether I wil bend our conference for this time to some good purpose that you goe not altogether awaie without profite Will you graunt mee but so much as common humanitie will afford anie man or the meanest courtesie of freindes allowe Tub. I wil alowe you any reasonable graunt whereof if you doubt you doe me wronge it may be you deeme me so affectioned that I wil neither heare nor read anie thinge aganst my humor I would not haue you so thinke of me that were more beast like to follow the first of the heard then according to anie Christian course and if anie should wish me to it I should the sooner mistract them and grow the wearier of them Rom. You say well and my request shal be yet more reasonable then you would deeme it to be you are you saie vnable to dispute of the points of doctrine betweene them vs vntil you be further instructed in them Tub. I confesse it I haue only hetherto heard their our report without either their proofes or your acceptions Rom. Why then this I saie which you or anie man being neuer so vnlearned maie vnderstand if all their points of their religion be good sound Catholike according to Scriptures Fathers Counsells Doctors histories viz. their Masse their sacrifice their reall presence their meritinge of heauen their free wil in good and holy things their praying to Saints their seruice in an vnknowen tongue The points in con rouersie betweene vs. the forbidding of the lave people to read the Scriptures in their vulgar tongue The Bishop of Romes authoritie worshiping of Images and a number of questions else What need then is there for the Doctors of that side such as haue written in defence proofe of their cause Harding Dorman Saunders Stapleton Allen Cope Bellarmine Rhemists Dureus and manie others to misaleadg any Doctor Counsell Historie or Father either by corrupting of

him because the bishop of Rōe is so accustomed that is because the bishop of Rome before any definition of any councell did accustome to permitt the gouernment of Egypt Libia and Pentapolis to the Bishop of Alexandria or was accustomed to gouerne those prouinces by the bishop of Alexandria Oratio pro Muraena Iacerent in tenebris omnia nisi literarum lumen accesserit saith Tully Althings had lien buried in darknesse had not the light of good letters awaked them How doe these men with the knowledge of good letters involue althings into more darknesse then if they were reduced to the first Chaos There is none of them al but knowe that the canon about which they keepe so much stirre is directly against them The verie recitall of it is a sufficient confutation of the argumēts brought to the contrarie They only desire to force their witts to vphold their wills If the beginning of the canon hath bin wanting so long time as Bellarmine maketh account it hath how did Eckius Hardinge Saunders Andradius and Dureus make it serue their turne against vs when it was wanting are they so good workmē that any tooles wil serue their turnes whether they bee blunt or sharp wil any thinge against the Protestants serue But popery was neuer fully cloathed in all hir colours til the late Iesuits set it to sale How or by whose means that peece was wāting so long or how it came to be wanting or how to be foūd Bellarmine doth not shew What record maketh mention of it ether counsell or father or Doctor or whoeuer said so but he he is taken with maner and vntill he doth manfully acquite himselfe he must slād charged with the wrong don to those 318. fathers whose words he hath falcified If hee bringe out an other Iesuite elder then himselfe to testifie with him it may not serue the intelligence shal bee but as betweene an incendiarie and a robber the one to fire the house and the other to rifle it There was a time when the shewing of this canon if it doe make for the bishop of Romes authoritie wold haun greatly pleasured the Roman bishops namely in their great and longe conflict with the Bishops of Aphrica even touching superioritie and command du●ing the full time almost of three Popes Zozoman Bonisacius I●…ocentius 1. presently after the Nice●e counsell who contended with them denied it them Then or neuer had that canon beene to bee shewed had it bin at all and fitter oportunitie to haue found it was neuer offered But none of the Bishops of Rome euer hard of the making of it which is an vndoubted argument there was none such On the other side wee haue testimonie both for the Canon ever since it was made that it was neuer altered and beside the evidence of the truth in the verie language of it we haue Ruffinus for 1200. yeares agoe expounding of it as wee doe But let vs compare their new patch with the whole cloth Mat 9.16 Contraria interse apposita magis elucescunt The right canon as they al agree and see whether that that should fill it vp do not take from the garment and so the breach be worse Let the ancient custome be kept thorough out Egipt Lybia and Pentapolis that the bishop of Alaxandria haue the goverment of all these for the bishop of Rome hath the like order Likewise also in Antiochia and in other provinces the priviledges are to be kept to the churches After their forgery we may read it thus The sixt canon of the 318. fathors That the church of Rome hath alwaies had the primacie Dureus vt ante let the ancient enstomes remaine c. After Bellarmine thus The church of Rome hath alwaies had the primacie let the auncient customes remaine thorough out Egipt Libia Bellar. vt ante and Pentapolis that the bishop of Alexandria governe those provinces because the bishop of Rome is accustomed so to do that is because the bishop before the definition of any councell accustomed to permit the gouerment of Egipt Libia and Pentapolis to the bishop of Alexandria or accustomed to governe those provinces by the bishop of Alexandria Hauing this liberty to do and say what they list to adde or take away whē they wil they were to bee reckoned as simple and childlike as now they are found fraudulent and base if they would ever yeeld to any authority that is alleadged against them But yet they shal not loose their labors it shal be with them as with the Grecian artificers cos aulados esse Cicero pro L. Muraena orat 23. fol. 750. qui citharaedi fieri non potuerint Who were taken to be pipers when they coulde not attaine to be good plaiers on the harpe and they shal be accounted Coblers and botchers for faire and good worke they set vp none I could cloy you with proofe against them in this kind of dealing but I wil only adde one or two more and so an end Antwerpiae ex cudebat Ioannes Crinitus anno 1541. Cypr. de simppraelat siue de vnit eccles Al the Apostles were equall The ancient father and martyr S. Cyprian who liued aboue 1300. yeares agoe within 250. yeares of Christ hath this sentence Hoc crant vtique caeteri Apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti honoris potestatis Verily the rest of the Apostles were the same that Peter was indued with like fellowship both of honor and power From which the Protestants argue that S. Cyprian knew no rule or dominion that S. Peter had ouer the rest of the Apostles for saith he they were equal both in honor and in power Iuel con Hard. art 4. diuis 6. fol. 239. Caus 24. q 1. loquitur dominus Caiet de rom pont instit tō 1. tract 3 c. 3. de author papae conc tō 1. tract 1. c. 2. Saund l. 7. nū 46. fol. 262. and so hath shut out the bishop of Rome from hauing that soueraignty over the rest of the bishops of the church Bishop Iuell in his time without any mistrust thought this authority of Cypriās strōg enough amongst others to shew the ancient fathers mindes in that point Gratian who compiled the decrees hath recorded this sentence of Cyprian even in this forme that we lay it downe Cardinal Caietane eiteth it twife in two seueral tracts writing of the Popes authority even as we do without any addition at al to it Saunders also in his visible monarchy argueth vpon this text of Cyprian for Peters supremacie over the rest of the Apostles but quoteth the text as we do without the late addition added by the Iesuits so that for our warrant wee haue al the ancient texts of Cyprian The decrees of Gratian the testimony of Caietane and the allowance of Sanders Nothwithstanding which testimony witnes they haue of late found out a piece belonging to this text of