Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	bishop_n	church_n	succession_n	1,636	5	10.2155	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A06347	An excellent and plaine discourse of the church, whereby the godlie may knowe and discerne the true Church, from the Romish Church, and all other false and counterfet churches, as well for matters of doctrine, as discipline, &c. Written in Frenche by M. Bartrand de Loque, a godlie minister of Dolphenine. And faithfully translated into English, by M.T.W. Seene and allowed; Traité de l'eglise. English	Loque, Bertrand de.; T. W. (Thomas Wilcox), 1549?-1608.	1582 (1582)	STC 16813; ESTC S103377	172,896	422

Bishops of our selues but for them August cont Crescon Grāmat lib. 2. cap. 11. to whō we administer the word Sacraments Now here I speake vnto al Cardinalls Bishopes Abbots Priors Curates and other priestes together with their Pope himselfe and will them to examine and iudge themselues in their owne consciences and see whether they can with good right boaste them selues to bee the Apostles successours in sound doctrine and in faithfull execution of their charge and office and to marke howe they obserue those canons which the attribute to the Apostles whereof the fiftie eight canon Can. Apost can 58. excommunicateth the Bishoppes and Elders who haue not any care either of their cleargie or of the people the charge of whome is cōmitted vnto them and which doe not teach them in the doctrine of true religion which canon also ordeineth that if such continue in their negligence carelesnesse they should be deposed There resteth the succession of persons or that whiche is of the Churche or place touching which first wee say that the auncient doctours did not alwayes ayde themselues with this argument when the were to fight with heretikes for hauing to deale with suche as did receiue and allowe the worde of God as well as them selues the dispute and matter in controuersie between them being onely in the true interpretation thereof they contented them selues to alledge scripture expounding places one by an other euen as Saint Augustine sayth August That that which is darke in one is cleare and manifest in an other But when they were to reason against them that would adde to the holy scriptures as Manichaeus who woulde that men shoulde receiue his Epistle whiche hee called fundamentall euen as it were the Gospell it selfe there and in that respect they serued their turne with the argument of succession And yet when they vsed it it was not either theyr onely or their principall defence For in the first place they shewed by the woorde of God that they were in error and afterwards added as a good bulwark or meane of resistaunce the consent of the Churche witnessed by a continuall succession of all ages and times Also they helped themselues therewith as with a verie likely or probable argument and good inough in the defence of trueth against errour but yet not so as though it had a like force and strength for the maintenance of errour against trueth it selfe Lastly when they demaunded of heretikes from whence they came from whom they descended who were their predecessoures c. they meant not to speake of their vocation or calling whiche they neuer called into doubte or question for the greatest number of them were Bishoppes as Nestorius was Bishoppe of Constantinople Samosatenus of Antioche all lawfully called and hauing right and authoritie to teach in the Church but they meant to speake of their doctrine whiche was newe and not hearde of beefore Wherefore when they alleadged or laid succession for them selues they did not so muche meane the occupying of the chaire or enioying of the place as the continuance conformitie and agreement of the doctrine whereas on the other side our aduersaries do not demaund of vs who were the authours of our doctrine but inquire of vs touching our vocation and calling and are contented with this to declare that their Bishoppes are descended from all antiquitie but not their doctrine and yet notwithstanding they deceiue them selues For neither in the primitiue Church neyther long time after such Bishoppes as bee nowe in the Popedome had anye place so that a man may safely say they are not descended from the Apostles nor frō theyr true successors To conclude we say that it is verye certaine that such a succession of the Pastours in the primitiue Churche was of greate weight and importance because the Pastors at that time had not onelye the name and title of Pastors but did withall faythfully exercise the Charge and office thereof But what is at this day the dutie of bishops and priestes of the Church of Rome Let the most sound iudge thereof Is the controuersie in the Church touching succession to some inheritance to haue the possession and enioying thereof No but rather for men to set their hands to worke and labour as the Apostles haue done to watch diligently ouer Christes flocke and to minister vnto it the foode which is necessarie and meete for it As S. Paule sayth If any man desire the office of a Bishop he desireth a good or excellent worke And againe 1. Tim. 3.1 speaking vnto bishops Take heede to your selues saith he and to the whole flocke Act. 30.39 whereof the holy Ghost hath made you Bishoppes or ouerseers to feede the Church of God And S. Peter The Elders which are among you I beseech which am also an Elder with them 1. Pet. 5.12 feede the flocke of Christ whiche is committed vnto you caring for it not by constraint c. The succession then of the Chayre or place is nothing without the succession of doctrine and dutie For if the byshoppe bee deade as saith S. Cyprian when no sounde goeth foorth of his mouth Cyprian lib. 1 epl 4. Greg. epl 24. If he be deade as sayth S. Gregorie when hee preacheth not by what title may a man saye that the Romish byshoppes and Priestes succeeded the Apostles and haue the possession of their chayre or place if they be deade or altogether dumbe or else not the followers of the Apostles in doctrine truth for let vs a little beholde howe the auncient fathers haue ioyned and knitte the succession of person or place with the succession of doctrine and office Irenae lib. 4. cap. 33.34 Irenaeus saith We are commaunded to yeeld obedience to the elders which are in the Churche who haue their succession from the Apostles and together with the succession of the office of a Bishoppe haue receiued according to the good pleasure of the father certaine grace and knowledge of the trueth Tertullian saith also If some heretikes dare be so bold to intermingle themselues with the times of the Apostles thereby to make men beleeue that they were deliuered from the Apostles them selues because they were vnder the Apostles or in their dayes we may say let them shewe then the beginninges of their churches let them vnfolde or discouer the succession of their Bishops in suche sorte running and flowing by continuall order from the beginning that the first Bishoppe hath had some of the Apostles for his author and predecessor or some one of them who were the followers of the Apostles who also did notwithstanding perseuer and continue with the Apostles And a little after The Churches saith hee whiche were planted after the Apostles time those which are yet planted at this day although that they bring not any author for them from amongest the Apostles themselues or Apostolicall persons yet notwithstanding beeing founde consenting in the same faith they are not to

be helde taken or acknowledged for any other then Apostolicall pro consanguinitate dictrinae saith he that is to say for the nighnesse in blood or by reason of that doctrine which they maintayne keepe and holde with the Churches which the Apostles them selues ordayned and set vp S. Augustine writing to one Generosus Aug. op 156. doeth so extoll the succession and continuall order of Pastours that hee nameth thirtie Bishops of Rome putting Anastasius for the nine and thirtieth but hee addeth euen presently or immediatly after In all this ranke or bande there was not to be founde one Donatist And against the Manichees he writeth thus Epist fundament cap. 4. There are verye many thinges whiche holde and keepe me in the lappe of the Catholike Church the consent of people and nations the authoritie whiche was begunne by myracles nourished through hope augmented by charitie and confirmed by antiquitie moreouer the succession of Pastours euen from the seate of Saint Peter to him that is at this day present And a little after But on your parte sayth he to the Manichees ye alledge or bring foorth no suche thing but onely ye retaine or stande to a promise of trueth which indeede if it did declare it selfe so euidently that a man coulde not any more dout thereof I confesse consent that it ought to be preferred before antiquitie succession and all other thinges S Hierome Hierom. epi. 1. ad Heliod habetur they are not saith he the sonnes and children of holy men that hold and possesse the places of holy men but they which followe their doctrine and practise their woorkes Distinct. 40. Can. And Chrysostome in a certayne place There are sayth he many Elders and fewe Elders manie in name and fewe in deede Beholde my brethren how ye are placed and set in the chaire For it is not the chaire or place that maketh an Elder but the Elder the chaire or place Beholde after what maner and sort the ancient writers haue spoken But would we know in one word by the word of God of what value is the most common and olde succession that a man can suppose if the puritie of doctrine bee wanting S. Paule teacheth it vs Gal. 1.8 writing to the Galathians when he saith If wee our selues or an Angell from heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which wee haue preached vnto you let him be accursed Moreouer I woulde gladly demaunde of the Romish Catholikes for what cause they holde not the Churches of the East for true Churches They will not say that it is because that succession is not on their side for they want not that but it is on their side euen as olde and auncient at the least as in the Romish Church Wherefore they must needes say that it is by reason of the doctrine receiued amongest them to wit because they hold not the Pope for their head because they deny purgatory because their ministers be married because they celebrate and minister the holy supper with leauened breade because they giue both kindes to the people and such like thinges Nowe if as touching the East Churches the Papistes iudge of the Churches not by succession but by doctrine wherefore do they when they dispute with vs stay them selues rather vpon succession then vpon the doctrine seing that the question in controuersie betweene vs is to examine the markes of the Church Secondarily touching the matter of succession we say that if we shall enter into the sifting of the succession of Popes and Bishops in the Church of Rome we shal easily finde that if men will theredy iudge of their vocation or calling it shall not serue their turne very much or stand them in any great steade For this we shal be sure to finde that they haue oftentimes succeeded tyrāts schismatikes excommunicate persons and Bishops or Popes not lawfully called For what was Gregorie the seuenth who was named before he came to the pope dome Hildebrand Vrspergensis Vrspergensis witnesseth that hee vsurped the Papall seate through tyrannie and not by a lawfull vocation And the councell holden at Wormes Concil Wormat in the yere 1080. saith also of the said Hildebrand that he was not chosen by God but that he did without shame thrust in himselfe thether by deceit and money and that he ouerthrewe the ecclesiasticall order that he was an offensiue person a mouer of debate and an obseruer of diuinations dreames yea a manifest Necromancer or coniurer What was the woman Pope Ioan about the yere 854 Platina Platina in her life saith that she was an English woman who in her youth followed and accompanied a younge scholler in studies and profited so well therein that at Rome shee was esteemed amongest the most skilfull and learned for which cause shee was exalted to bee Pope they supposing shee had been a man But she was founde great with childe and at the last deliuered in an open streate and as they were going in solemne procession vpō the shoulders of those that caried her where also shee died What was Benedict the ninth The storie writers declare that after he was accused of many crimes by the Romanes he was driuen away and in his place was ordained the Bishoppe of Sabina called Siluester the thirde who likewise was deposed and put downe because he was an idiot ignoraunt and vnprofitable and the saide Benedicte recouered the seate againe from whence through couetousnesse hee put him selfe downe and ordayned in his place Iohn the Archdeacon of Saint Iohn port Latine who was named Gregorie the sixt to whome he solde the Popeship for verye muche money paid downright Iohannes Maior Mare Historiarum Nauclerus Platina as witnesseth Iohannes Maior The sea of histories Nauclerus Platina and the same Gregorie beeing Pope was iudged as well by the Cleargie as by the people to bee a murtherer and a symoniakal person What was Siluester the seconde Platina saith that being a Frier hee gaue himselfe to the diuel vpon condition that he would aide helpe him to obtaine that which hee desired so by that meanes he came to be Pope What was Eugenius the fourth He by the definitiue sentence of the Councel of Basill was condemned for a schismaticke rebell and stubborne person and so deposed and one Aimus Duke of Sauoie substituted in his place in the yeere 1439. the 16. of Nouemb. Notwithstanding he being supported and vpholden by the fauour of certaine princes abode in the possession of his Popedome and Aimus his election passed into smoake and was of no force or value But without passing to anie other examples for this cā not be done but in long time may we now affirme first that in al the time of these Popes there hath not been some interruption or breach of personall succession in the seate of Rome veryly we must confesse it vnlesse a man would say that heretikes and notorious schismatikes were the heads of the church

be written to Iulius Bishoppe of Rome by which there shoulde be declared vnto him that he did attribute and take vnto himselfe an authoritie whiche did not at anye hande belong vnto him and that in so doing hee offered greate wronge to other Churches and other Bishoppes And there was added to the letters that he should no more meddle with them whome they had deposed then they medled with those whiche were deposed by the bishop of Rome and others whiche were ioyned with him therein To whiche purpose they alledged the example of Nouatus whiche was as yet verye freshe and newe For when this Nouatus was reiected by the bishoppe of Rome none of the rest of the Metropolitanes and Bishops of other prouinces did gainsay the same neither any manner of way intermedled therein Furthermore if that whiche is maintained and practised at this day amongest the Romishe Catholikes touching the large iurisdiction and soueraigntie of their Pope were in force by Gods lawe as they woulde perswade the simple people thereof shoulde not then al the foresaid Bishops al others together with their Councelles and Churches whiche haue not at any time confessed the Bishoppe of Rome for their head be verie greeuously censured or punished and woorthie of a verie seuere and sharpe reprehension It is true that men may finde that some amongst the anciēt fathers haue somtimes called the Bishoppes of Rome high Priest and Pope but they did heretofore call after the same sorte all Bishops For as touching the name high Priest Theodo lib. 2. cap. 7 Theodoretus in his second booke chap. 7. speaketh on this maner that two hundreth and fiftie high priests were assembled together in Sardis And Athanasius in his first Oration against the Arrians Athanasius oratio 1. contra Arriano● doth not onely call Iulius and Liberius the bishops of Rome high Priestes but also hee calleth by the very same name the Bishops of Grecia Dacia Cappadotia Affrica Ruffin lib. 2. cap. 26. Italie Sicilia and Armenia Ruffinus also in the second booke and 26. chapter called Athanasius the great high Priest As concerning the name Pope we will speake therof by gods grace and aide hereafter in the ninth chapter Moreouer let vs consider by what tokēs and markes the Pope of Rome saith that he is Saint Peters successour It is say the Romish Catholikes because that Saint Peter had his seate and chaire in the churche of Rome being there the Pastor and hauing borne rule there a long time and that after him there came in order his successors the Bishops of Rome hauing the same authoritie which he had before But touching the first it is vncertaine whether S. Peter was Bishop of Rome or no at the least whether he bate rule there and helde the seat They are not able plainely to proue the same neither to approoue it as truth at what time it was neither vnder what Emperour neither how long because that out of the holy scriptures they are not able to bring Cal. lib. 4. Instit cap. 6. sect 14. so muche as one onely probable coniecture but rather the contrarie as Caluin hath well and sufficiently declared in his Institutions Secōdly if S. Peters abode at Rome hath giuen this autoritie to the Romish bishops to bee the heads of the Church and vniuersall Bishops from whence commeth it that the Councels haue limited to all the Patriarkes who were many and diuers yea euen after that they were brought to foure Concil Nic. Can. 6. Concil Antioch Can. 13. their seuerall charges making them Metropolitanes euery one in his owne prouince the Bishop of Rome hauing no more authoritie ouer others than others ouer him For at that time the Bishop of Rome might very well haue alleadged Saint Peters seate and the other Bishops and Councels woulde very well haue confessed and allowed the same if it had beene true and if the same could rightly haue giuen the title of primacie to the Bishop of Rome On the other side what an argument is this Saint Peter was Bishop of Rome and there suffered martyrdome therefore it followeth that this Churche is the mother and mistresse of all the rest and that the Bishop thereof is the vniuersall and generall head of all Christendome Verily if in this respect the question bee to establishe and set vp a primacie it ought rather to bee placed at Ierusalem than at Rome For Saint Peter preached there Act. 2.14 Act. 2.12 Act. 4.3 yea the firste after Christes ascention where hee together with his fellowes and brethren builded vp the Churche did great miracles was imprisoned Act. 5. 18 and sundrie times persecuted The Prophetes likewise preached there and all the Apostles yea whiche is more Iesus Christ him selfe Ioh. 2.13 7.14 8.2 c. 18.20 died there and rose againe and from thence ascended vp into heauen There also was the first Synode that euer was helde in the Christian Churche assembled of all the Apostles There also Iesus Christ sent downe his holy spirite vpon his Apostles and disciples Act. 15. 6 c. Act. 2.1 c And to bee shorte from thence it was that the doctrine of saluation shoulde come forth to bee spread abroad throughout all the world euen as the Prophets had before tolde Isai 2.3 Michah 4.2 which things we cānot after any sort say or affirme of Rome Moreouer if we must respect and regarde the Apostles there is as muche or rather more reason to make Saint Paul the first Bishop or Pope of Rome as Saint Peter For in the first place besides that hee was not in any thing lesse or inferior to the most excellent or chiefe Apostles 2. Cor. 11.5 wee fynde not that S. Peter did at any time reprooue him in his ministerie Gal. 2. 11 as he reproued or blamed S. Peter And besides wee haue a certaine and an assured testimonie in the holy scripture touching Saint Paule Act 23.11 Act. 28.30 31 that he was sent by God to Rome there to beare witnesse of him that hee there preached the kingdome of God two whole yeeres together that from thence he writ diuers Epistles to the Churches that hee was there prisoner and at the last beheaded by Nero. And as touching Peter wee haue no assured testimonie that hee went to Rome or that he tarryed there exercising there the ministerie If they will replie that Iesus Christ gaue him the keies of the kingdom of heauen and that by that meanes he was preferred before Saint Paul and made head of the Church we haue answered that heretofore which we mind not heere to repeate Besides though it were so that S. Peter was ordained to beare rule ouer all Churches as an Apostle yet it can not thereupon followe that his successours ought to haue any such right or authoritie as he because they which succeeded the Apostles haue not the same charge and the same office that the Apostles had For