for as euery heretike chalengeth vnto him selfe the trueth of opinions so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine And then is it to be sought out and tried onely by the scriptures as we haue declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article 2. demande Secondly whereas you demande whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her because I haue aunswered to this demande fower or fiue times already I will now aunswere in one worde Although she was bidden and close from the worlde yet was she knowen to them that were her children 2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite trueth and Church and I recant THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members in teaching â—xhorting comforting confirming c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth and Christ hath bene with her euer more and shal be to the worldes end But that the spirite of God truth and the Church of Christ shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde is proued by S. Paule 2. Thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you you shoulde recant The 26. article conteyneth in effect but 3. demandes 1 Shew me againe whether any man of yeares may be saued except he beleue the Catholike Church THere is no man of what age or yeares soeuer he be that can be saued except he be a member of the Catholike church But how necessary it is to beleue the Catholike church it is very doubtfull as you demande and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require If you meane that it is necessary to beleue the Catholike church that is to say that God hath an holy vniuersall Congregation I graunt it is necessary to beleue But I vtterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholike church But if you meane as it seemeth and as the rest of the Papistes doe interprete that article I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what soeuer the church doth allow to be true I deny that it is necessary to saluation that a Christian man should so beleue the Catholike church both because the church may erre also because something may be commonly receiued of the church which is not materiall to saluation And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creede I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what so euer she doth set forth or maintaine to be true appeareth manifestly by the wordes them selues For who euer was so ignorant in the Latine tongue to thinke that Credere Ecclesiam and Credere Ecclesiae were all one in signification In deede if the wordes were Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae in the datiue case this interpretation might take place but when it is in the accusatiue case Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam A boy that woulde conster it otherwise than thus I beleue that there is a Catholike church were worthy to haue a doosen stripes for his labour Moreouer this common distinction of Credere in Deum that is to put our trust in god Credere Deum that is to beleue that there is a God and Credere Deo that is to geue credit to God that he speaketh the trueth plainely ouerthroweth this foolish and false interpretation For we say not Credo in Ecclesiam that is I put my whole trust in the Church for that were blasphemie against God in whome only we must beleue neither do we say Credo Ecclesiae that is I geue credit to the Church as though she shoulde alwaies speake the trueth But we saye and confesse against all heretikes and scismatikes Credo Ecclesiam c. that is I beleue that there is one Holy Catholike and Apostolike church whereof I am a member c. Finally when the articles following are spoken in one context and phrase it can not be chosen but that they must haue one kinde of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum Remissionem peccatorum Carnis resurrectionem that is I beleue the Communion of Sainctes the forgeuenesse of sinnes the Resurrection of the body c. whereof the interpretation must needes be this I beleue that there is a Communion of Sainctes that there is forgiuenesse of sinnes c. Euen so I beleue that there is a Catholike Church which is an article of our crede necessary to be beleued of euery Christian man but to beleue all and euery thing that the Catholike church by commoÌ„ consent doth maintaine is no article of our Faith and therefore not necessary to saluation 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the worlde practised preachâ—ng the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwaies had the ministring of sacraments the hearing of matters in controuersie power Iudiciarie in Ecclesiasticall causes the orderly succession of Byshops vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnity in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true sence and interpretation of Gods word that is bewtified by the diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with Virgines with Martyrs with Confessors and the rest BEcause these colewortes haue bene sodden twise or thryse already they are not worthy to be shewed in seuerall dishes but euen as they are here mingled all togither in an hochpotte Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholike Church as it hath bene declared before some are not alwaies necessary in the catholike church As open preaching in the face of the world open ministring of Sacraments and execution of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some were proper for a time and then ceased as working of miracles and diuers other functions of the spirite Some are neuer necessary in the Church as succession of Bishops vniformitie in ceremonies c. But of all these notes there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome for she hath not alwaies practised open preaching and neuer preached the worde of truth she hath conuerted but few nations to her Religion from Gentilitie and them rather by warre than by preaching she neuer had sence she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christ his institutioÌ„ she hath hard matters in controuersie not for furtherance of Iustice but for loue of money Her iudiciarie power may be dispensed withall for money She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome And except so many schismes as they write of be orderly successions she hath not vniformitie in all ceremonies for diuerse nations and diuerse Churches in these nations haue diuers
Catholike Church then can you no more condemne vs then Christ and his Apostles that were not onely not called the true Church but also were called heretikes deceiuers by the people of the Iewes which were as rightly called God his people as they that giue you the name of Catholike Church are called the Christian world It is well you haue nothing better to proue your Church then the honorable name of Catholike nor any thing more to condēne our Church then that we are not called Catholike and yet we haue as many nations and more then you haue that by publike authoritie call vs Catholikes and you heretikes although you most shamefully sclaunder vs that we doe refuse the name being offered vnto vs Seeing you boast so much of the name Catholike you shall heare what some of the old writers iudged thereof Chrysostome in an homelie that he writeth of Adam and Eue in the later ende hath these words after he hath tolde them that he hath no neede to repeate such depe questions as those men haue handled which haue fought against heretikes Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secūdum praedictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt vt prorsus opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit praefixis sententijs esse contrarium that is we beleue that what so euer the Apostles haue taught vs according to the foresayd rules is sufficient in so much that in no wise we thinke that to be Catholike which shall appeare to be contrary to the sentences before determined By this you may see that Chrysostome thought it not sufficient to haue the name of Catholike for he iudged nothing to be Catholike in deede that was contrary to the rule groūded in the writings of the Apostles Wherfore how so euer you boast of the honorable name of Catholike except you can proue that your opinions agree with the Scripture they are not Catholike in deede by Chrysostomes iudgement S. Augustine also in his booke de Genese ad literam imperfecto cap. 1. speaking of the Catholike faith sayth This is an article thereof that we should beleue Constitutam ab eo matrem Ecclesiam quae Catholica dicitur ex eo quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est That he hath appoynted a mother Church which is called Catholike of this because it is vniuersally perfect halteth in nothing and is dispersed ouer all the worlde S. Augustine here is not content that the Church be onely called Catholike but sheweth when it is that which it is called and therefore the popish Church not being vniuersally perfect as most Papists will confesse that many thinges in their church haue neede of reformation halting in many thinges from the truth of God his worde neither yet being dispersed ouer all the world but conteyned in a corner of Europa is not by S. Augustines rule the Catholike Church Furthermore S. Augustine cōtra Epistolam Fundamēti cap. 4. against the Manichees plainely declareth how farre forth not onely the name of Catholike but also how farre vniuersally consent succession antiquitie are to be allowed Vt ergo hanc omittam sapientiam c. Therefore to omitte this wisedom which you do beleue to be in the Catholike Church there be many other things which may hold me most righteously in her bosome The cōsent of people and nations holdeth me the authoritie begun with miracles nourished with hope encreased with charitie confirmed by antiquitie doth hold me The succession of Priestes from the very seate of Peter the Apostle vnto whom our Lord after his resurrection committed his sheepe to be fedde euen vnto this present bishopricke doth hold me Last of all that very name of Catholike doth hold me which name not without a cause this Church alone hath so obteyned among so many heresies that wheras all heretiks would be called Catholikes yet when a stranger shall aske where men meete at the Catholike Church none of the heretikes dare shew him either their principall temple or house All this you will say maketh exceeding much for vs yea but heare that which followeth Apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit proponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneor that is But among you where there is none of these thinges that may prouoke or holde me there soundeth the onely promise of truth which if it be shewed so manifest that it can not come in doubt is to be preferred before all those thinges by which I am holden in a Catholike Church By this you may plainly see that though consent antiquitie succession and the name of Catholike be good confirmation when they are ioyned with the truth yet when a truth is seuered from them it is more to be regarded then they all it is truth that maketh Catholike to be estemed and not Catholike that giueth authoritie to truth Wherefore seeing it were better to proue your Church to be Catholike then to boast that it is so called to disproue our Church so to be then to say it is not so called The best way for you is to recant The 21. article conteyneth but one demande 1 Moreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in that time in which they holde the true church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the Catholike church was bounde to goe from that church which they sawe and taught them both the article and all other thinges touching their faith and by which they were Christened and receyued all other sacraments and commodities of saluation whether they were bounde I say to beleue this vnknowen and close Congregation which they coulde neuer come vnto nor by which they euer receiued or coulde receiue any benefit and so forsake that church by whom and in whom they receiued both their faith and sacraments Shew me therefore that the Christian men of these dayes were charged to beleeue any other church than that which taught them the article of the church and baptized them and I recant THis demande is like a drunken mans dreame hauing neither heade nor foote whether they shoulde beleue the church was lost whether they shoulde beleue the church that was vnknowen to them c. But if your demande haue any sense in it This is my aunswere The church was neuer lost but hidden from the eyes of the worlde Therefore if the people that where taught that article To beleue the Catholike church and were baptized to your church vnderstood that this church was not the Catholike church which was so commonly called but that God had a secret Congregation which was in deed the true Catholike church they were bound to forsake your church and to beleue the secret Congregation for if a man had ben baptized
opening of Gods spirite But omitting this matter as touched by the way with two other pages following as containing nothing materiall to be aunswered I will come to the third leafe and second face where you promise an orderly proceeding in the matter you take in hand Which order of yours if you had not professed your selfe to obserue men might haue taken your hochpot to be such as your matter would bring forth that the treaty of Purgatory should be like the troublesome state therof but when you are not content to haue your methode counted to be of the nature of your matter but you will needes make boast of an orderly proceeding in so disordered a cause you must not be offended if your confusion in steade of order be sometime discouered Howbeit the want of order were a small fault if the matter were pregnant and certaine But what assurance shall other men haue of your doctrine when you your selfe affirme and haue learned as you say out of Irenaeus that such doctrine and mysteries may not be safely had at such a mans hand as you are but onely of holy Priestes and Byshops which with the succession of their office haue receiued a sure and certaine gift of truth according to the pleasure of their father It is the duety not onely of a good teacher but euen of a good Christian to say with the Psalmist I haue beleued and therefore I haue spoken If you beleue not these matters why haue you vttered them â–ª â—f you beleue them then be bold to shew vs your grounds out of the word of god For other perswasion then â—uch as is grounded vppon the hearing of Gods worde will neuer of Christians be counted for true beliefe so long as the 10. chapter to the Romanes remaineth in the Canon of the Bible But I knowe your meaning you affect the prayse of humilitie and modestie For wauering and vncertaintie in faith among Papistes is counted modâ—stie but this modesty is soone forgotten and this boldnesse nowe vtterly refused in the next leafe â—ollowing is not onely resumed by your selfe but also enioyned to others Be bolde blush not you might say though you should for shame to charge any of our aduersaâ—â—es c. A sodaine chaunge he that euen now neither can nor must be bolde although he hâ—d many more giftes then he hath and studied much longer then he hath done to expounde the holy Scripture without daunger to him selfe and his hearers because he hath not the certaine gifte of truth with ordinary succession by and by is growne to such a full perswasion of truth expressely proued by argument and authoâ—itie that men must be bold vppon his warrant to charge all his aduersaries either to be helde thereby or else with no honesty to escape his handes A man would maruaile to beholde this speedy alteration if he did not vnderstand the true difference betwene the certaine faith of a Christian and the obstinate blindenesse of an hereticke For when he compareth his opinion with the authority of Gods word where vpon true faith is builded he will not he can not he must not be bolde to vnderstand the scriptures he wanteth that certaine gifte of truth but when he remembreth that he can not deceiue others nor retaine the glory of constancy him selfe by doubtfulnesse and vncertainty then he â—aunteth braggeth of the force of his feeble arguments and vnsufficient auâ—horitie But concerning the place of Irenaeus by him alleged I must admonish the reader that his meaning was not that euery one that succedeth in a Byshoppes seate hath as necessarily annexed to his see that certaine gifte of veritie wherby he may expound the Scripture without error as maister Allen perhaps woulde insinuate But that some in the first age of the Church as they succeded the holy Byshoppes and elders that were ordained by the Apostles in place and office so also it pleased God their father that they shoulde succede in the like gifts and namely in that excellent gifte of interpretation of the Scriptures which was but extraordinarie and for a season For if it had been an ordinarie thing that euery Byshop by succession shoulde receiue that gifte there shoulde neuer haue been any heretike Byshops as there haue been many and againe that prerogatiue which Maister Allen him selfe will affirme to be peculiar to the Byshop of Rome shoulde be made common to euery other blinde Byshop where so eâ—er he sat which were a great absurditie in popery it selfe And as for the gift of the interpretation of scriptures God gâ—ueth it still though not in such full measure nor coÌ„monly without ordinary meanes allowed in the Scripture as reading comparing praying neuer the lesse with as full persuasion in matters concerning Gods honour our saluation by his holy Spirite as euer he did bestowe the same in any age And as for the helpes of learning requisite for the same as knowledge of the tongues and rationall sciences there was neuer greater stoâ—e in the church of Christ son Christ his time ye if we shall iudge by the writings and stories of all ages vnlesse we will be as impudent as maister Allen we must say there was neuer so great store of learning in any age as Gods holy name be praised there is now in these our dayes in menne professing Christian religion with what conscience can maister Allen affirme that there was neuer lesse store of learning then in this age when euen in remembraunce of men that are aliue there was a great deale lesse store then is nowe but in their fathers and grandfathers time there was almost nothing but rudenesse and barbarousnesse euen with the same conscience that soone after he affirmeth that pleasure is euer ioyned to the Protestants doctrine which more preuaileth then the preachers perswasion If you had meant Master Allen that peace of God which passeth all vnderstanding which they tast of that by the Protestants doctrine haue learned that they are iustified by faith Phil. 4. Rom. 5. and to that perpetual ioy in the holy Ghost whereunto we are exhorted by the Apostle Phil. 4. wherein the kingdom of God consisteth Rom. 14. we willingly would haue consented that such pleasure is alwayes ioyned to the Protestants doctrine but seeing it is more like you speake of carnall pleasures I must say thus much to confound your blasphemous tongue and to dashe out your slaunderous writing let the worlde witnesse that heareth our doctrine and God iudge that seeth our hearts whether carnall pleasures be ioyned to our teaching which daily preach with all vehemency and earnestnes vnfained repentaunce mortification deniall of our selues bearing of the crosse hatred of this world amendment of life holines and righteousnes and that vnder paine of euerlasting damnation And whether pleasure more then the godly perswasion of the preachers preuaileth to winne professors of our doctrine if it be not so clearly seene in this Church of England by the meanes of the great peace
successions did euer chuse out for the warrant of their faith from amongest the reste the Roman Seate And now when there is no apostolike Church left in the whole worlde but it that they will seeke to Churchies whereof there is neither certainty nor succession when by plaine open dealing we may reduce and must needes referre our faith to that which was euer of all other most farre from falshoodde 3 Euery man in the primitiue Church compted the springe of his faith more pure if he coulde deriue it out of the holy Scriptures and shew the continuance thereof in any of the Apostolicke Churches whereof Rome was but one And condemned all heresies of nouelty or later string which coulde not bring the first author of their heresies eyther from any of the Apostles or apostolicke men which cōtinued in the doctrine of the Apostles as Tertullian doth in that booke De praescriptionibus aduersus haereses The like doth Irenaeus And that these men specially named the Church of Rome it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles And these heretikes for the most parte had bene sometimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marcion Nouatus But none of these fathers as M. Allen woulde haue it appeare was such a sclaue to the Church of Rome that what so euer pleased the Byshoppes of that Sea they were ready to accept For then woulde not Irenaeus so sharpely haue reproued Victor as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian woulde not haue taken vp Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles Hieronym woulde not haue bene so bolde to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinū in lib. Didym Nor to compare the bishoppe of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio nor to make the Church of England equall with the Church of Rome Nec iam altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis existimanda est Et Gallia Britania Africa Bersis Oriens Indiae omnes barbarae nationes vnum Christum adorant vnam obseruant regulam veritatis Si authoritas quaeritur orbis maior est vrbe Neither must we thinke that there is one Church of the citye of Rome an other of all the worlde beside Both France and Britayne and Africa and Persia and the Easte and India and all barbarous nations worship one Christ keepe one rule of trueth If authoritie be sought the world is greater then one citye c. Loe Syr here is a Church and christianity and a rule of trueth with out the byshoppe of Rome with out the Church of Rome yea and contrary to the church of Rome For to them that alleged the custome of the church of Rome he sayth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis cōsuetudinem what bring you me the custome of one citye and Augustine him selfe that knwe so well to fetch an heretike ouer the coles I trowe fetched Zosimus Bonifacius and Coelestinus byshoppes of Rome meetly well ouer the coles when he and his fellowes the byshoppes of Africa tooke them with plaine forgerie and falsification of the canons of the councell of Nice Consilio Milebitano Africano As for that which M. Allen compteth so strange is for lacke of skill and right iudgement For the same cause that moued those auncient fathers to appeale to the iudgment of the church of Rome moueth vs now to condemne the church of Rome of heresie wherefore did they reuerence the church of Rome Aske Tertullian he aunswereth because it had by succession reteined euen vntill his dayes that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles Therefore it was a true Church therefore it was an apostolicke Church which because it doth not nowe neither hath done of many yeares and hath nothing to boast of but the empty names of many good bishops but thrise as many more of cursed Antichristes therefore it is nowe a false church and a company of heretikes departed from the auncient Romaines true and apostolicke faith 4 Bring my faith once to S. Gregory and the very streame shall driue me to S. Peter and Paule maugre all their beardes In which ordre of Byshops finde me one that set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteine I will go seeke with the stray a newe mother Church to founde my faith vpon If all be in this succession salfe and sounde what a folly were it to forsake our owne mother and spring of our belefe to seeke other which haue often erred when they stoode and nowe be almost wholy decaide But yet it is wisedome for false teachers with all force to flie from so greate light as maye arise to the trueth by the recognising of that sounde succession and going the iuste contrary way from the olde doctors faith it is not to be thought straunge that they directly seeke to ouerthrowe that bulwarcke which they euer leaned vnto in the stormes of schisme and heresie The shrewes do knowe full well the might of trueth in that Seate and succession to haue beaten downe all their forefathers the heretikes of all agies They feare their fall whose steppes they follow They vtter much malice torment them selfe in euery sermon in vaine that Church feeleth no sore but in sorow of compassion towardes her forsakers she hath bidden greater stormes then this first by tyraunts then by heretikes last and most by the euill life of her owne Bishoppes In all which she yet standeth and euer riseth to honour as she is most impugned Their owne preaching hath singularly opened the might of God in the defense of that Seate of vnity VVhen they first beganne to touche and taunt the Pope in euery sermon in euery playe in booke and balate men that before liuing in faithfull simplicitie much medled not with his matters nor often hearde of his name beganne straight upon their busy ralinge to conceiue by reasonable discretion that there lay some greate grounde of matter and weight of trueth vpon that point which they coulde not digest in so many yeares bauling and barking at his name they saw the Pope euer in their way neuer out of their mouth and they doubted not but that singular hatred grew vpon some great importance and so admonished luckely by the aduersaries they sought the bottom of that perfecte and deepe hatered and found that it was the olde sore of the Arians and disease of the Donatistes and common to all heretikes they perceiued by S. Cyprian that the first attempte of such men was to driue awaye the pastor that they might with out resistance deuour and destroie the flocke And which was the pricke of all their endeuours to take from vs the acknowledging of the great and singular benefite of our conuersion to the faith that in stopping the heade of that condeth and plentifull well of our faith
church of Rome may falsely interprete the scripture which you woulde beare them in hande were impossible 3 Or induce any error among the people THe true and onely church of God is so guided by God his spirite and directâ—d by his worde that she can not induce any damnable error to continue Yet as it is declared before she hath no such priuilege graunted but that she may be deceiued in some thinges for her knowledge is vnperfect and her prophecying is vnperfect 1. Cor. 13. And it is true that S. Augustine sayeth euen the whole church is taught to saye Forgeue vs our trespasses And if generall Councells be the church represented as you Papistes doe teache S. Augustine plainely affirmeth that they may erre De Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. Quis autem nesciat sanctam scripturam Canonicam tam veteris quam noui Testamenti c. And who knoweth not that the holy Canonicall scripture as well of the olde as of the newe Testament is conteined within her certeine boundes and that it is so preferred before all later writinges of byshops that of it no man may in any wise doubt or dispute whether it be true or whether it be right what so euer is knowen to be written therin and that the writings of bishops which haue bene written or are now in writinge maye be reprehended if they haue gonne astraie any thing from the trueth both by the saying that is perhaps more wise of any man that is more skilfull in that matter and by the more graue authoritie and wisedom of other better learned bishops and also by Councells and that euen those Councells which are gathered in euery region or prouince ought to geue place without all doubt to the authoritie of the generall Councells which are gathered out of all the Christian worlde and that euen the very generall Councells may often be amended the former by the later when as by any triall of thinges that is opened which before was shut and that is knowen which before was hidden without any swelling of wicked pride without any stubbernesse of arrogance without any contention of peuishe enuie with holy Humility with Catholike peace with Christian charity Thus farre S. Augustine which cleerely affirmeth that generall Councells may often erre which maye often be amended but that the authority of God his worde is to be preferred before the writinges of all Doctors and Decrees of all Councells and that it onely can not erre The Councell of Carthage the 3. ca. 23. determined that all prayers at the altar shoulde be directed onely to the Father and not to the Sonne or the holy Ghost whether this be an error to define that it is vnlawfull to pray to God the Sonne and God the holy Ghost let euery man iudge But you will except that this was a prouinciall Synode and not a generall Councell But I aunswere you it hath the authoritie of a generall Councell because it was confirmed in the sixt generall Councell holden at Constantinople in Trullo And as for the Popish church that it maye erre what neede we better proofe than the prayer which it maketh after the ending of euery generall Councell Precamur scilicet vt ignorantiae parcas errori indulgeas that is we praye truely that thou wouldest spare our ignorance pardoÌ„ our error And againe Et quia conscientia remordente tabescimus ne aut ignorantia nos traxerit in errorom aut praeceps forsitan voluntas impulerit a Iustitia declinare ob hoc te poscimus te rogamus vt si quid offensionis in hac Concilij celebritate attraximus condonare remissibile facere digneris that is And because we are greued with remorce of conscience lest either ignorance haue drawen vs into error or perhaps rash will hath driuen vs to decline from Iustice therefore we praye thee we beseech thee that if we haue drawen vnto vs any offence in the celebration of this Councell thou wouldest vouche safe to pardon and to make it remissible c. If it be impossible for the generall Councell to erre what neede they pray to God to pardon their error and when their owne conscience condemneth them and compelleth them to confesse and that before God that they may erre what impudence is it in any man to contend that they can not erre Furthermore the second Councell of Nice determined that Angels and soules of men had bodies were visible and circumscriptible and therefore might be painted and this it affirmeth to be the iudgement of the Catholike church Con. Nice 2. Actione 5. If this be not to induce an error to make men beleue that Angells and spirites haue bodies visible and circumscriptible there was neuer anye error sence the worlde beganne Finally when they say the Pope can not erre they acknowledge that such generall Councells as condemned Popes for heretikes did erre as the sixt generall Councell of Constantinople in Trullo which condemned and accursed Pope Honorius for an heretike Actione 13. Euen as Pope Leo the 2. did also as appeareth in his epistle to the Emperour Constantine Also the Councell of Constance did erre which condemned Pope Iohn the 23. for denying the immortality of the soule and the resurrection of the body Session 11. which Councell Pope Iohn him selfe affirmed to be most holy and that it coulde not erre Session 12. And the Councell of Basile did erre which deposed Pope Eugenius the 4. Session 34. the same Councell being confirmed by Pope Nicolas the 5. Session 43. If you say these two last Councells did not erre in condemning and deposing these Popes Then the great generall and OEcumenicall Councell of Ferraria and Florence did erre in disallowing the determination of these Councells Thus it is manifest that the Romish church which they them selues confesse to be represented in a generall Councell may erre which hath so often erred And if it may erre and be deceiued it selfe what man is he that neede to doubt Whether it maye induce any error among the people 4 Or approue any vnprofitable or hurtefull vsage among Christians IF the church had not approued many vnprofitable and hurtefull vsages among the people in S. Augustines time what neede had he to complaine that many of God his coÌ„maundemeÌ„ts were litle regarded mans presumptions so highely esteemed Sed hoc nimis doleo c. But herewithall I am to much greued that many thinges which in God his booke are most holsomly commanded are lesse regarded and all thinges are so full of so many presumptions that he is more greuousely reproued which in his vtas hath touched the earth with his bare foote that he that hath buried his minde in dronkennesse Therefore if it be an vnprofitable and hurtefull vsage to preferre mans traditions before God his commaundementes the Church in S. Augustines time approued an vnprofitable and hurtefull vsage Furthermore if the Church can not approue an vnprofitable or hurtefull vsage wherefore are so many ceremonies as
the cause would driue me vnto I did learne of auncient Irenaeus that such doctrine â—nd mysteries may be safely had and without all feare of errour taught by holy Priestes and Bishops Qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum sâ—cundum placitum patâ—is accepeâ—unt VVho haue receaued with thâ—ir ordinary succession in their pastorall seat the gracious gift of vnderstanding the truth And these are they sayth he in the same place which may without all daunger to them selues and their hearers expound vnto vs the holy Scriptures Other men doubtles which this miserable age of ours seeth not that measureth all thinges by a fond flourish of learning whereof â—et there was neuer lesse store can not nor must not be so bold though their giftes were many moe study muâ—h longer then mine And to confesse the truth in deede I was somwhat loth such was my foolish feare then to fall in hand with that matter which being well and to the bottom ripped I perceaued of all other causes in the world most to touch the very sore of heresie and therefore might to me procure the hatred of such whose loue otherwise I could be content either to keepe or winne Besides that I saw the contention of the contrary part seking to make some answere to such thinges as might in this cause most greeue their mindes or marre their matter shoulde driue me from that course of study which otherwise in quietnesse I would most gladly keepe to serue truth and defende my cause which once of freedom and good will taken in hand must afterward of duety and necessitie be vpholden Notwithstanding all these thinges good reader which might most iustly hold me back yet now my friendes request the case and condition of this present time and my duety towards my mother the Church may of good reason and must of necessitie chaunge my former intent remoue my priuate study to the benefite of the common cause Therfore being at length by iust occasion wholy minded to serue as well as I could that way I thought good these late months to make a more full declaration of that thing which at my sayde friendes request I had so briefly touched before That as then when he first had it of me it onely serued him for his owne contentation the pleasuring of his singular and secret friendes and the helpe of some simple whome he knew deceyued by ouer light looking on so graue matters so nowe good Christian reader I trust it may helpe in common not onely such as haue been caried a way by the guile of heresie but other that are much subiect to the daungerous flattery of this present time with whome pleasure euer ioyned to the protestantes doctrine often more preuaileth then the preachers persuasion Be bolde to charge any of our aduersaries make he neuer so great accompt of him selfe with the force of trueth heere expresly proued both by argument and authoritie if it holde him not he shall I am sure brast out with impudencie and not lose him selfe by reason iust dealing or honestie And if it be proued to touch with safetie the poison it selfe let no man doubt to vse it for a preseruatiue in this common infection of our time and countrie For it were no reason any man shoulde practise with the poore people priuyly in such thinges as he were not hable to mainteine before their pilloures and preachers openly And for that hatered which I may procure to my selfe by mine owne trauell it shall not much moue me for I shall either be partaker thereof as a common praise in these euill dayes to most good men or els if I be not worthy so much I will learne to beare it as some parte of punishment satisfaction for my sinnes I may not bye frendship with flatterie nor mannes loue with forsaking Gods trueth Of such thinges then I will not make much reckening but my principall care is that in writing or wading in so deepe matters I keepe the streight line of the Churches truth which in the exceding rashnesse of these darke dayes a man may quickely lose And therefore to make sure I humbly submit my selfe to the iudgement of such our maisters in faith and religion as by Gods calling are made the lawefull Pastors of our soules Of whome I had rather learne my selfe then teach other if either they had occasion and opportunitie to speake or I might of reason and duetie in these miserable times holde my peace Farewell gentle Reader and if I pleasure thee by my paines let me for Christes sake be partaker of thy prayers At Antwerp the Second of May. 1565. 3 WHether this occasion of your writing were true or only pretendid it is all one to our purpose But where you commende your freinde for that he learned to beleeue first and sought to vnderstand afterwarde which you take to be the natural order of a Christian schoole if you had shewed where you learned that methode his coÌ„mendation should haue been the greater and your iudgement the weightier For we learne by Saint Paule a contrary order namely first to heare the worde of God preached and expounded and then to beleeue it Rom. 10. For God by the riches of his grace hath abounded towardes vs in all wisedome and vnderstanding and hath opened vnto vs the mysterie of his will according to his good pleasure so that after we hearde the worde of trueth the Gospell of our saluation we haue thereby beleeued and so are sealed with the holy Spirite of promise laboring and praying that those which haue receaued the first grace of knowledge and vnderstanding may daily more and more increase in the same that they may be full filled with knowledge of Gods will in all wisedom spirituall vnderstanding Col. 1. And as for that blinde faith which must be thrust vppon mens consciences to be accepted before they see what grounde it hath we leaue it as meete for sect masters and heretikes and in no wise to be admitted by the Disciples of Christ who calleth all men to heare him and vnderstand him Matt. 15. Mar. 7. But faith say you in most matters must direct reason But I say reason in all matters must be subiect to faith For the naturall man with all his reason neither doth nor can perceaue the things of the spirite of God for the eye hath not seene nor the eare hath hearde neither haue entred into the heart of man the thinges that God hath prepared for them that loue him but God hath reueiled them to vs by his spirite 1. Corinth 2. And this is the thing that deceiueth you Maister Allen which more like a maister of prophane artes then a good student of holy Diuinitie can put no difference betwene carnall reason and spirituall vnderstanding For that knowledge and vnderstanding of Gods holy mysteries conteined in his word whereuppon our faith is grounded we haue not by light of naturall reason but by reuelation and
ante iudicium purgatorius ignis credendus est pro eo quod veritas dicit Si quis in sancto Spiritu blasphemiam dixerit neque in hoc saeculo remittetur ei neque in futuro In qua sententia datur intelligi quasdam culpas in hoc saeculo quasdam in futuro posse relaxari quod enim de vno negatur consequens intellectus patet quia de quibusdam conceditur sed tamen vt praedixi hoc de paruis minimisque peccatis fieri posse credendum est For certaine small sinnes that there is a purgatory fire before the daye of iudgement we must needes beleue because the trueth it selfe vttered so much in these wordes If any sinne against the holy Ghost it shall not be remitted neither in this worlde nor in the worlde to come By which sentence it is geuen vs to vnderstande that as some offensies be released in this worlde so there may some other be remitted in the life following For that which is denyed in one sorte the meaning is plaine that of some other kinde it must needes be graunted But as is saide before this is onely to be taken of lighter offensies thus farre spake S. Gregory and proueth learnedly beside by examples and sondry Scriptures through out the whole worke our matter If our aduersaries woulde with desire to learne as they commonly do to reprehend reade but his discourse onely they might quickely see their owne foly and amende their misbelefe They call him the last good Pope as he was in deede a blessed man and by his authority the perfect conuersion of our nation to Christes faith was wrought I woulde his holy workes deserued but as much credit now with certaine forsakers as his Legates then did with all the vnfaithfull people of our countrie But to go forwarde in our matter we shall finde in S. Bernarde the same wordes of our Sauiour alleaged for our purpose thus Non credunt ignem Purgatorium restare post mortem sed statim animam solutam a corpore vel ad requiem transire vel ad damnationem quaerant ergo ab eo qui dixit quod dam peccatum esse quod neque in hoc saeculo neque in futuro remittetur cur hoc dixerit si nulla maner in futuro remissio purgatione peccati They beleue not sayth he by some heretiques of his owne time that there is any purgatory paines remaining after death but they suppose that the soule straight vpon departure hense goeth either to rest or damnation let such fellowes aske therefore of him that saide a certaine greuous crime coulde neither be forgeuen in this worlde nor in the worlde to come why he so saide if there were no remission nor purgation of sinnes in the life following thus said Bernarde opening his graue iudgement both vpon the text and our matter whose authority if any esteme lesse because of his late writing let him know that the aduersaries haue none for their side so auncient by C C C. yeare except they name the heretike Aërius or such like whose antiquitye maketh not so much for them as his auncient condemnation for heresie in this poynt maketh against them 2 M. Allen in his conscience knoweth that he hath no grounde in the authority of Gods word and therefore he flyeth to the authority of man But that he might seeme to be driuen perforce to that where vnto he doth come most willingly he pretendeth a fonde excuse because he hath to doe with such fickle marchaunts as wil not sticke to breake boldly the bands of euident Scriptures But he knoweth in his conscience that he hath no authoritye of Scripture to charge vs for if he thought we would breake the bonds of Gods word he might well thinke we would not be holden by the authoritie of mens writing and those of the latter sort six hundreth yeares after Christ the eldest For Augustine makeâ—h as litle for them as he doth against vs Gregory and Bernarde whereunto he addeth Bede are of opinion that sinnes not remitted in this world may be remitted in the world â—o come but how hapneth it that Chrysâ—stome and Ieronym which both interpreted that place could gather no such matter although they otherwise allowed prayer for the dead The reason must needes be because the errour of purgatory growing so much the stronger as it was nerer to the full reuelation of Antichrist Gregory and Bede sought not the true meaning of Christ in this Scripture but the confirmation of their pausible error M. Allen thinketh we must be sore pressed with the authoritie of Gregory because we mâ—slike not his authority where he inueigheth against the supremacy of one Bishop aboue all other or where so euer he agreeth with the truth But he must be once againe admonished that we are bound to no mannes authoritie no longer then he followeth the authoritie of Gods word And therefore though Gregory were the last of all the Romish Bishops in whom was any sparke of goodnes because Boniface his successor and so all the rest by Gregoryes owne iudgement prophecy were all Antichristes yet is not all that Gregory writte of equall authoritie with the word of God without authoritie whereof we beleue not an Angell from heauen as I haue often shewed much lesse a Bishop of Rome 3 But that in the mouth of two or three witnesses all trueth may appeare and contrary falsehood vanish away S. Augustine him selfe gathered by this place now alleaged euen then when he had no occasion geuen him by the wrangling of any misbeleuer to wreast any scripture otherwise then the very wordes imported the trueth of remission of certaine faultes in the next life in these wordes Facta resurrectione mortuoruÌ„ non deerunt quibus post poenas quas patiuntur spiritus mortuorum impertiatur misericordia vt in ignem non mittantur aeternuÌ„ neque enim de quibusdam veraciter diceretur quod non eis remittetur neque in hoc saeculo neque in futuro nisi essent quibus etsi non in isto tamen remittetur in futuro There shall be certaine at the time of resurrection also who shal obteine mercy after they haue suffered such paines as deade mens ghostes do abide that they be not cast into the euerlasting fire for els it coulde not in any true sense be spoken that certaine shoulde neither haue pardon in this worlde nor in the worlde to come except there were some that speeding not of pardon in this life might yet haue remission in the next so sayth he Being I warraunt you so sadde witted and so farre from phantasies that he would not grounde any assured doctrine vpon euery light occasion offered or motion made had not the very words and forme of phrase approued it and Gods Church liked it Hauing then these graue fathers with others for our warraunt in the exposition of this place we do take it for a sure grounde that the paine of purgation in the next worlde
iustice of God to them that haue there reason rightly reformed it seemeth altogether vnreasonable So vpholden with scripture Neuer once mentioned in scripture and so confessed by Tertullian one that leaned to some parte of your cause so he ordered in all pointes So patched together like a beggers cloke with so many peeses of so many colours one patch out of Tertullian an other out of Augustine an other out of Gregory an other out of Damascene many stolen out of the monkes cowle and sayed to be geuen by Clemens Athanasius and such like some rent awaye violently against the owners willes as from Origen Cyprian the Councells of Vase and Carthage and no small peeses out of drousy dreames and mockadoe miracles narrations and relations c. I promise you a goodly ordered cause But of Cyprians time we must saye the trueth and shame the deuill so we will and shame the Pope to his eldest sonne It was such time M. Allen as Cyprian byshoppe of Carthage thought him selfe equall with Cornelius and Stephanus byshoppes of Rome 1. lib. epist. 1. cap. 4. de simplicitate praelatorum c. It was such a time that Cyprian taught that fayth onely doth profit to saluation To. 2. ad Quirin cap. 42. And that he beleeued not in God at all which placeth not the trust of all his felicity in him onely De duplici martyrio Yea it was such time that Cyprian woulde haue nothing doen in the celebration of the Lords Supper and namly in ministring of the cuppe but that Christ him selfe did lib. 2. epist. 3. And yet it was such a time also as Cyprian and all the byshoppes of Africa decreed in Councel that those whcih were baptised by heretikes should be baptised againe And therefore it was no such time but that he and all his fellowes though they held the foundation of Christ yet might and did erre in some opinions contrary to the trueth of Gods worde And where you aske whether the time of ignoraunce that we limitte for our walke doth rech so high as Cyprian his time I woulde you knewe we walke not in ignoraunce of any time but in the knowen path of Gods word which is higher then Cyprians or any mortall mans time But the time of ignoraunce which is limited for your walke that call ignoraunce the mother of deuotion first is all beside the path of Gods worde and then euen from the time that the misterie of iniquitie beganne to worke 2. Thess. 2. Euen vntill the time that Antichrist was openly shewed in the full power of darkenesse in all times when so euer and where so euer was any peese of miste or darke corner though all the rest were light there were the steppes of your walke As euen in the Apostles time when the superstition of Angells beganne to be receiued there was one steppe of your waye which you holde euen to this daye Colos. 2. And from that time the deuill neuer lefte to set in his foote for his sonne Antichristes dominion vntill he had placed him in the temple of God and prepared the wyde world for his walke VVhat that holy sacrifice is vvhich vvas euer counted so beneficiall to the liue and dead The punishement of our sinnes by the heuy losse thereof The great hatered vvhich the deuill and all his side hath euer borne tovvardes Christes eternall priesthoode and the sacrifice of the Church And that by the saide sacrifice of the Masse the soules departed are especially relieued CAP. VIII 1 ANd nowe we must fall in hande with the good Christian Catholike for the search of this so often named sacrifice so comfortable to the liue so profitable to the deade and what that oblation is which the holy Catholike Apostolike Church hath euer vsed through out the worlde for the sinnes of the departed in place of the offeringes of the law and that sacrifice which Iudas Machabeus made and procured at Hierusalem for the offensies of his people that perished in battle Surely it is no other but the sacrifice of our Mediatour as S. Augustine termeth it and the offering vpon the altar It is no other then that oblation which so fully and liuely expresseth the death and passion of Christ Iesus VVho being once offered by the sheeding of his blessed bloud for the redemption of man kinde hath wrought such a vertuous effect not onely in the holy sacraments for the giuing of grace and remission of sinnes but also hath lefte in a merueillous mistery his owne holy and blessed body and bloude as well to feede vpon for the especial strength and comforth of our soules as to offer vp the same for the remembraunce of his death and cleansing of ouâ— sinnes Not in that wise as it was done vppon the Crosse by the painefull sheeding of his bloude but as it was instituted first in the last Supper VVhere Christ our God and Redeemer according to the order of Melchisedech gaue to his Apostles and offered to God the father that body which afterward was betrayed and the same bloude which was shedde after also for the remission of sinne being with all tearmed by him the bloude of the new and eternall testament as that which in the newe lawe shoulde succeade the bloudy offeringes of the olde testament VVherof God almighty being as a man woulde say lothesome or full hath instituted this by his onely Sonne as a most pure and precious oblation and sacrifice to be continued in the Church through out the costes and corners of the rounde worlde VVhich being celebrated in the blessed memory of his Sonnes passion and hauing no other hoste nor oblation then that which then was offered can be no other sacrifice then that which there was made for the forgiuenesse of sinne and redemption of the worlde The which worthy action of Christes Church so fructefully applieth vnto vs the benefite of our maisters death that thereby we may haue comfortable hope of remission of all such misdeedes as most iustly deserued Gods wrath and terrible indignation against vs. CAP. VIII 1 NOwe the good catholike shall haue holsome doctrine taught him concerning the sacrifice of the masse which first commeth in place of the sacrifices of the lawe and that sacrifice which Iudas Machabaeus procured to be made at Ierusalem Well sayd M. Allen shall the sacrifice of the masse shoulder out the sacrifice of Christ his death The Apostle to the Hebrewes teacheth vs an other lesson cap. 10. that Christ offering but one sacrifice for our sinnes and that but once cap. 9. hath made perfect for euer those that are sanctified that our sinnes are taken away by that sacriâ—â—ce and therefore there is no more sacrifice for sinnes left Wherefore it excuseth not but increaseth your blasphemy that you say the sacrifice of the masse is all one with the sacrifice of Christ his passion which was but one sacrifice and the same but once offered and by that one oblation hath made perfect all them that receiue any benefite
taking away of this olde faith of praying and offering for the dead all the workes of the same faith which ishued downe from that fountaine might shrinke with all or returne to the founders againe because there is no rowme to fulfil their willes how many Churches and Chappelles what Colledges or hospitalls woulde our newe no faith bring forth VVould not euery bishoppes wife builde a Church thinke you or founde a Colledge in such a necessitie lest their husbands shoulde be driuen to serue in a reformed french barne 6 Nowe as touching your vaine supposing if all such landes as were geuen to mainteine prayers for the deade or other like purposes either good or supposed to be good should reuerte to the heyers of their first founders for not performing the intent of the founders perhaps fewe monasteries colledges or hospitalles In Italy Spayne Fraunce or Flaunders shoulde enioyâ— one halfe peny worth of their landes or reuenewes They ment not onely to be prayed for but to be prayed for by men of honester conuersation then the greatest parte of those cloysterers are They are too well knowen to the worlde to be taken for that they be called holy religious and chaste But suppose as you sayde that we had no manner of Churches to assemble in though byshoppes wiues be not able to builde them yet we doubt not but in the time of peace and tranquilitie vnder godly princes we shoulde haue as many and as faire builded Churches as the religion of Christ hath neede of Haue you not hearde of the Churches builded in Orleans and Antwerpe other places by the professors of the Gospell But if it were in time of persecution and tyranny I doubt not but all godly bishoppes had rather serue in a french reformed barne then in a popishe gilded minster And how so euer you iest like a scornefull caytifie of those holy assemblees of Gods children in Fraunce there barnes are more like those caues and vaultes vnder the earth that the olde Christian byshoppes were content to serue in before the time of Constantine theÌ„ your Idolatrous Babylonicall temples are like those princely buildings that by Constantine and other Christian princes were first set vp for the publicke exercise of Christian religion 7 One of these mocke byshoppes complaines very sore in a booke of his that men be not now bent with such zele and deuotion to preferre Gods honour in maintenaunce of his Ministers as they were in olde time and as Constantinus with the like christiaÌ„ Princies in the primitiue Church were But the good man marked not wherevpon this colde deuotion ariseth he considereth not that this is the fructlesse effect of so idle a false faith as his owne lordship preacheth he would not see that the maintenaunce of Gods honour both by liefe landes and goods in the peculiar fructe of that charitable louing faith which the Catholikes doe professe he weyed not well that the great grauntes of Constantinus were made to Syluester Bishop of Rome and not to the maried Byshop of Duresme He remembred not that the like holy workes of the noble kinges of our owne countrie were practised vpon such as wouldâ— professe the trueth and serue the altar and not vpon false pastors that were destroyers of all altars Such honorable portions were parted out for Gods lot and not taken from the worlde to goe to the worldely againe Thinke you any man were so minded to take from his owne wife and children either landes or goods to bestow on priestes babbes or bedfellowes No no God knoweth it was separated from them selues to the sacrifice to the priesthoode to the honour of Gods Church and ministerie The which thinges by your owne preaching my lordes decaide woulde you haue the Prince or peoples deuotion towardes you as is was and woulde be still if you were like your predecessors and serued the altar as they did I wisse if the olde S. Cuthbert Wilfride and William whome they compare in holynesse to horsies so good is their opinion of their holy auncieters had bene of the same religion that the occupiers of their roumes now be all the Prelates in England might haue put their rentes in a halpeny purse Come in againe come in for Christes sake come in to the Church againe serue the altar and then you be wortâ—â— to liue of the altar followe our fathers and you shall be loued as our fathers were confesse that religion which our owne Apostles first taught and we all haue beleued and all the workes of Gods Church protest to be true and then you shall be blessed of God and honoured of men 7 You are a priuileged person as your owne talke doth declare and therefore you may prate what you list if he be a mocke bishoppe which beside his excellent learning is also a painefull and diligent preacher of the Gospell what are those vnlearned Asses and rechlesse ruffians of your secte which haue nothing of a bishop but a rotchet and a myter or because I will not charge you with the worst what are they which if they haue some more learning then the rest of which number there are but fewe yet they count it the least part of their office to preach and teach which S. Paule counteth to be chiefe part of a Christian shepeheard ouerseer But to leaue the name come to the matter you mistake that godly mans complaint if you thinke he meaneth of superfluous buyldinges of Synagoges whereof you speake or the vnnecessary enryching of Prelates whereof you meane when he speaketh of the necessary sustentations of a great number of Pastors which through the rauening of your gluttonous Monkes be robbed of their portions And whereas you aunswere it is the fruite of so idle a false faith as his lordship preacheth your mastership lyeth For that fayth which he preacheth is both a true and a working faith which if it were as generally receiued in this land as it is truely preached by him and others the ministers of Gods word could lacke no liuings as God be thanked they neither doe nor can lacke sufficient for necessity among so many of high authority nobility and wealth as doe vnfaynedly professe the Gospell and dayly bring forth the fruites of a true liuely working and onely iustifying fayth The Churches of Fraunce in time of greatest persecution yet haue alwayes liberally susteyned their Pastors And as for the great grauntes that Constantine made to Syluester Byshop of Rome of such as he made in deede he made to married Byshops of Rome as some of them were since Syluester time rather then vnto Syluester the coniurer Hildebrand the hell hounde Iulius the warriar or any that succeeded Boniface the third which beside their abominable life were all heretikes and Antichristes And touching such benefites as were receiued at the handes of princes and noble men of our cuntry if they were ment to be bestowed vpon the professors of the truth and such as serue the aulter of
may by the example of Christ aunswere one question with an other why was it first reueiled to the Arians in councell holden against Christ that the article of his descent into hell was meete to be added to the creede and confession of faith which was not reueiled to so many godly meÌ„ as set forth the Symbole nor to the holy Nicene Councell Aunswere me if you can or any Robin good fellowe of your sect â–ª learned or vnlearned is it any preiudice to the trueth of that article or to the right that it hath to be placed in the creede that it was first added by the Arrians why was the trueth reueiled to heretikes concerning rebaptisation rather then to Cyprian and so many catholicke byshoppes why was it reueiled to the Pelagians that infantes might be saued without the participation of the sacrament of Christes body and bloude rather then vnto S. Augustine Innocentius byshoppe of Rome and as Augustine sayeth all the catholicke fathers of that time which thought it was as necessary for them to receiue the communion as to be baptised If heretikes shoulde not affirme somethinge that were true they shoulde neuer deceiue any man And sometime Satan affirmeth the trueth not because he will haue it beleeued but rather that proceding out of his lying mouth it might the sooner be discredited And therefore sometymes Arrians Pelagians Anabaptistes and such like by the subtilty of Satan haue affirmed somethinge that is true either to winne credit to their manifolde lyes or else to drowen the credit of that trueth among so many errors 7 Nay I will pose you further is not your preaching the very ready waye to all such extreeme blasphemies as they boldely mainteine did euer man fall from the Catholicke Church to those further heresies then you yet openly professe but he tooke yours by the waye as a plaine passage to extreme infidelitie yea your opinions doe so well stande with the other that they neede not afterwarde to refuse any one pointe of all your doctrine to mainteine their owne There is no article of Catholicke doctrine but it is as much hated of them as of your selues Helpe your selues here my maisters or else all the worlde will take you to be in your heartes of the same sectes wherevnto your faith is alwayes so dearely ioyned Put your heades together and tell vs whie your doctrine is so deare to the AriaÌ„s all wicked men so hated of the holy fathers of Christes Church If you frame not your aunswere well you liese your credites your scholars and your honesties VVell thus haue I pointed out your author his name was Aërius you must be called Aërians you maye kepe the name of Protestaunts or Euangelistes beside For a holy newe calling is lightly ioyned to such men VVhereby though some simple be deceyued yet wâ—se men be warned Or if the olde authors of this secte be not so glorious as these new reuiuers if they list and like so they may call them selues Lutherans or Caluinistes or what they will but Catholickes Although Martyn Luther graunted purgatory and prayers with this error that such as were there might yet by their diuers deseruinges winne or loose life euerlasting as men of doubtefull state as they were before in the worlde plaine against our Sauiours admonition and carefull warning veniet nox quando iam nullus operari potest VVorke whiele the day lasteth for the night shall come wheÌ„ no man can labour But I neede not to stande vpon this point which of neither parte is much regarded Neither will I spende any more time in getting them an author of their secte seeing they haue choise of diuers Let them goe out of the Citye of God from amongest the holy company and turne on the lifte hande and looke amongest the outcastes of all agies and they shall haue freindes and fellowes enowe 7 That you saye of our preaching to be the waye to so many heresies might haue bene sayed of the Gentiles and Iewes to the whole Church of Christians The Gentiles continued constant so did the Iewes without schisme in their errors when the professors of Christianity were rent and torne into an hundreth sectes and heresies There were no heretikes but they hated Iewes and Gentiles as much as the true Christians was therefore the religion of the Iewes and Gentiles better then the religion of the Christians Yea there neuer was since Christ any heresie or heretike but they agreed in many more thinges with the Christians then with the Gentiles and Iewes was therefore the Christian religion false or the Paganes and Iewes superstition true It is therefore no dâ—sâ—redit of our doctrine that Arrians or Anabaptistes of our time either haue any thing of yours or prayse any thing of ours Neither our credit schollers nor honestie are in daunger for their errors which they learned not of vs neither are your wit learning or heresie the greater for vttering this foolish conceipte which no more toucheth vs or defendeth you then it carpeth the religion of Christ and mainteineth the Idolatrie of the heathen The worlde seeth what vaine reasons you leane vnto being destitute of the worde of god An heretike helde this opinion therefore it is false The deuill beleueth there is one God therefore shall not Christian men beleue so why woulde God reueile any trueth to heretikes why did the Pharizees which otherwise were heretikes defende the resurrection of the deade This vaine frothe of wordes and smoke of foolish and vnlearned questions will euen fall downe and vanish awaye of it selfe though it be not blowen away by vs The latter end of this chapter hath one croppe of his olde custome to charge Luther with defending of Purgatory which either was while he remained in ignorance or else it is but a fained fable as many other of him and others are deuised by the Papists who as they erre from the trueth of God so they delight in sclaundering of good men but they shall not preuaile their madnes is made knowen to all men That their falsehood is condemned and the Catholicke trueth approued by the authority of holy Councells Their pride in contemning and the Catholickes humilitie in obedient receyuing the same And a sleight vvhereby the heretikes deceiue the people is detected CAP. XV. 1 ANd for our parte it is sufficient good reader that we knowe the first founder thereof and that we be nowe right well assured that he in his time and his scholars in theirs haue bene noted called and condemned for heretikes in this as in other fonde peruerse opinions beside not onely by the singular iudgements of diuers learned men but by the common sense and consent of the worlde and by auncient Councells both generall and particular as we maye reade in the Councells of Carthage the iiij of Bracharense and Vase the Decrees of which by occasion we rehearsed once before They are both auncient and of greate authority and honored with the presence of