A MYLD AND IVST DEFENCE OF CERTEYNE ARGVMENTS AT THE LAST SESSION OF Parliament directed to that most Honorable High Court in behalfe of the Ministers suspended and deprived c for not Subscribing and Conforming themselues etc. AGAINST AN INTEMPERAT AND VNIVST CONSIDERATIon of them by M. Gabril Powell The chiefe and generall contents wherof are breefely layd downe immediatly after the Epistle G. Powell Let there be no strife I praye thee betweene thee and me for we be brethren Gen. 30 8. Reply The wordes of his mouth were softer then butter yet warre is in his heart His wordes were more gentle then oyle yet they were swords Psal 55 21. Out of one mouth proceedeth blessing cursing my brethren these things ought not to be so Iames 3.10 My litle children let vs not loue in word neyther in tongue only but in deed and in truth 1 Ioh 3 18 Imprinted 1606. TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE AND MOST CHRISTIAN HIGH COVRT OF PARliament which lately was and shortly agayne is to be assembled RIght Honorable and most Christian Senat as at your last Session there were certayne Arguments directed unto You for the quickening of your godly Zeale to speake not onely boldly but also in all humilitie to the Kings most excellent Maiestie for the Ministers suspended and deprived for not Subscribing and Conformyng themselues to some present Constitutions and as ye did graciously accept of the sayd Arguments and most worthily acquite your selues to the utmost of your powers touching the matter pleaded for by them so now vouchsafe I most humblie beseech you the like favorable acceptance of a sober modest and iust defence of the same Arguments against a late uncharitable unchristian bitter calumnious and cavilling answer published under the title of A consideration of them by M. Gabril Powel I am bold in steed of the author himselfe of the Arguments to take the defence of them upon me and to present them to your Honors because M. Powel himselfe in his said pretended answer unto them hath so often referred the iudgment of the Arguments of his consideration of them and of the whole cause to your most graue and gracious company Yea there is nothing that I am more willing unto or which I doe more earnestly desire then that the cause betwixt M. Powel and all those for whom he pleadeth on the one parte and the author of the Arguments and me the defendant with all other in whose behalfe we speake on the other parte might be iudicioussy and equally heard at the barre of your most Christian Court But the truth is because we desire and endeavor this hinc illae lacrymae Hence is their chiefe hatred of us their great contention with us and their bitter writing against us Notwithstanding though now we be uniustly charged as writing from Cimerian darknes for concealing our names yet if publike libertie might be granted to both parts to stand before your iudgment seat there freely to plead debate the cause by the word of God and that neither the worldly might and pompe of our adversaries nor our meannes and basenes might be respected but the truth it selfe simplie considered and regarded we would also accoumpt it as a singular mercy of God and as a speciall favor of you towards us in that behalfe In the meane time I doe in all humility referr the Argumēts togeather with the defence of them to your graue and iudicious consideration against your next meeting in Parliament not doubting but that the equitie of the cause and the innocencie of our selues will therby be so apparant unto you that though before som perhaps among you did thinke the one not to be so iust and the other not so free from all blame yet when ye shall agayne assemble ye will all with one mouth as one man both iustifie the cause and also speake more then ever before ye haue don for favor unto vs and to our people betwixt whom the bond before made by the Church and sealed by the holy Ghost in the effects of our Ministery cannot by any Lordly Episcopall severity be iustly dissolved I doe further likewise humblie craue your Honorable lawfull favor more specially towards me if at any time I shall be discovered against all those that shall not well brooke the sober and modest taxing of their corruptions in this defence especially considering the same is not done of any contentious minde but onely in loue of the truth to support it against those that deprave it and in regard of our owne good names to mainteyne our owne innocency against those that under the name of brethren doe most unbrotherly disgrace us Moreover if any thing in this defence following or in the Arguments themselues by the malice of any shal be wrested and perverted thereby also to wrest and pervert the law to the danger of the severall authors of the one or the other being found out may it likewise please you in all lawfull and righteous manner to put forth your selues for protection of the sayd authors as chiefly because such wresting of words and perverting of iudgment may procure Gods iudgments against themselues that shall so offend and against the whole land so likewise because to speake in such matters and for such persons whatsoever the answerer saith to the contrary shall not only bring much peace comfort to such speakers themselues but shall also be beneficiall to the whole land as is shewed in the Arguments nothing infringed or weakened by all M. Powels opposition unto them Yea let this consideration be a third reason to moue you the rather so to speake viz. that if one man had the divinity knowledge in law as also all other learning wit and wisdom of all men yet could he not so warily and circumspectly write in all things but that some wrangler or other instructed and set a worke by the serpent that is more subtle not onely then all beasts but also then all men now living on the earth might and would find some matter or other wherby to molest and trouble him I had thought much more to haue enlarged this my preface but the prolixity of the defence it selfe much exceeded my first purpos I will here conclude both humblie and with all thanks to God to your selues acknowledging your most religious gracious endeavors at your last Session for the cause and for the persons pleaded for in the argumēts and most heartily instantly likewise praying for you yours as Nehemiah Nehem 5 19 13 4 prayed for himselfe viz. that God in goodnes would remember you and yours according to all that ye haue doone for vs and that he will never wype out your kindnes that ye haue shewed on the house of your God and on the officers thereof A BREEFE NOTE OF SOME OF THE CHIEFE generall poynts handled in this defence following THat the author of the Arguments is falsly accused to impute any dissembling or equivocating to the
and holdes of the Devill may be the truth in part but yet they being in the places alleaged called the charets and horsmen of Israel not of the Saints and most of the Israelits being then wicked and these titles being acknowledged of Elisha by a wicked King that respected not the gathering of the Saints but the outward defence of his kingdome by the prayers and preaching of Elisha it cannot be the whole truth That we are such sores as the answerer speaketh of is not proved Indeed some conformitans so account us because we rub their sores so much and desire so earnestly the healing of them that so their soules may be the better saved We are also eye-sores to them but sure I am that we are not so to the godly many of whose sores God hath cured by us and to whom our ministery hath been the savor of life unto life Other thinges in this argument haue received their reply THE 8 ARGVMENT The proceedings of the Bishops other Ecclesiasticall Iudges against the Ministers in silencing and depriving of them is against the law Ergo. This High Court of Parliament being the chiefest Court of iustice in all this kingdome ought to releeue them The marginall notes upon the 8 Argument The first 3 notes I passe by as note-les G. Powel d Object against these and you shall be answered How shall we be answered With words and raylings Reply as before not otherwise To the oth Ex Officio and to the Canons afterward G. Powel a These men would bring in all by popular triall Nay rather Reply would not the Prelats be glad to haue all persons and all causes subject to themselues But more to this afterward G. Powel b A sensles sentence How can a man in matters of eternall life be cast out of his freehold Reply A simple cavill from the misplacing of a comma The Notary might well haue perceived that these wordes in matters of eternall life were to be joyned with the words goyng before ambassadors of Iesus Christ not with the words following should be cast out of their freehold This I say he might well haue perceived because there had been no speech of our freehold of eternall life but only of this life G. Powel c The Ecclesiasticall judge may proceed Ex officio d directly against the statute 1 Elizab cap 2 Reply These two notes being in the margine contiguoe and touching one another I joyne together in my reply the rather because d the letter of the second note and the mention of the statute in the end of the sayd second note omitted they may both in better sense and truth be read thus togeather Ecclesiasticall Iudges may proceed ex officio directly against the statute For touching the former note with c let the best Civilian shew if he can by what other law the Ecclesiasticall judge may proceed ex officio then by the Canon law abolished by statute The second note with d shall be satisfied afterward The note with e of begging the question is now too stale G. Powel f As if God and his Sonne Christ Iesus were not president of the religious assembly already An unchristian suggestion Reply When the Prophet exhorteth the Church to open her dores for the King of glory to come in psal 24 7 9 Cant 5 2 did he signifie that the Church had not before interteyned the King of glory When Christ saith Open unto me my sister etc. doth he meāe that his sister had him not at all before Christ dayly knocketh by his word and Sacraments Revel 3.20 at the heartes of all the faithfull to be let in Are they therfore altogether without Christ Allthough therfore Christ be already president in the Parliament yet by the propounding of any good cause he desireth to be further interteyned amongst them This the author hath acknowledged by calling thē often a Christian assembly by commending their Christian zeale against the Papists etc. But this is the answerers sophistry before noted Sophistry to reason from the wāt of a thing in part to the want thereof altogether Therefore this is an vnchristian and simple collection Further answer to the 8 Argument G. Powel I am constrayned to dance as the suppliants Pipe They lead and I followe Nay we haue piped unto you and yee haue not danced Reply We haue mourned unto you and yee haue not lamented Mat 11.19 Neither to evident Argumentes out of holy scripture will you submit your human ordinances or your selues neither by any gentle and humble petitions will yee Prelats come to any brotherly peace Mildnes doth as much provoke you as bitternes M. Nichols of Kent writyng most mildly and humbly was rewarded severely with suspension deprivation degradation Our most humble petition to the Convocation at the first Session of this Parliament received a most rough answer We seeke peace and when we speake thereof ye are bent to warre psal 120 7. Iob. 31 8. As though yee sate in heavenly places we haue been unto you more vile then the earth I complaīe not thus of all the Prelats I know that some are wiser milder kinder and more curteous thē other As the bramble tooke more upon it then the Oliue tree Iudg. 8.15 the vine or the fig tree so sometyme it is among Prelats G. Powel Hitherto they prayed your Honors but to speake for them etc. Now they urge you to determyne and actually to decree something in their behalfe We neither prayed nor urged any thing to be doone but with all humility and loyalty G. Powel hoping that his most excellent Majesty vpon the sight of the reasons why they had decreed or determined any thing so farre as they might among themselues would likewise in his Princely and christian regard haue vouchafed his Royall assent to their such decrees and determinations which although it haue not pleased his Highnes yet to doe yet we hope that heerafter upon further cōsideration some other may find further grace with his Majestie in the like behalfe G. Powel To the consequence of the former Argument The consequence hath 2 parts whereof the first is granted but that the deprived and suspended ministers ought to be restored is denyed because they haue not justified their cause and declared that they are vnjustly oppressed nor can ever doe Reply Touching the former answer may it please the reader first to remember that all the authors speech of the proceedings of the Bishops against Ministers suspended etc is only to be understood of such Ministers as whom they suspend and depriue onely for such causes as are mentioned in the title of the Argumentes not of other whom they suspend or depriue for any just cause Now to proceede that such Ministers haue not yet in law whereof the present question is justified there cause and declared that they are unjustly oppressed nor can ever doe is not
nature or reason but all must be done by the word of God the store house of divinity They are superstitious that stryue more for reteyning and practising of humane Ceremonyes in the worship of God be the pretense what it will then they regard the truth of God The answerer as a very pitifull man cryeth out Alas it is lamentable etc. But one of these poore Ministers yea many of them by reason of their trobles may come ten-tymes to some of his great Masters houses and not be offred once to drinke of a cupe but the truth is they haue forgotten Apostolicall hospitality and they haue learned Lordly Episcopall hostility Further marke here his contradiction or oblivion Before in his consideration of the preface to the Arguments he hath expresly charged them with divers particular carnall respects etc. Now he sayth contradictiō that he knoweth not for what carnall respects they curry favour etc. As for currying of favour it belongeth rather to some hungry trencher chaplines then to those against whom he writeth Yea 2 Sam. 16 13 2 Sam 19 18 as Shimei that cursed David when his kingdome was somwhat doubtfull yet at his safe returne and reestablishing of the Crowne unto him was as forward as any other by creepyng and crouchyng by flattering and fawnyng to curry favour agayne with David so it is well if there haue been no such curryers of favor among the Prelats The place of Timothy is abused It might in like sort haue been applyed to all the Martyrs We must not provide for our familyes by doyng any thing against Gods word That we had rather liue of our owne then of other mens is manifest in that we doe so earnestly sue to be restored to our places the rather that we may not be chargable to other G. Powel b Alas let them haue pity upon themselues and leaue their quarreling and they shall not be neglected This is spoken more like an Archbishop that had power to preferre other Reply then like a young chapline that needed and wayted for preferment himselfe I know not who may more justly be charged with quarrelling then they that beate and buffet their fellow servants yea then they that smite Christs Syster his loue his Doue his undefiled yea not only smite her but also woūd her and take her vayle from her We would gladly liue in peace with holines but we cannot be suffered Further answer to the 11. Argument G. Powel The Argument doth not follow because of the dissimilitude in the instances or examples The Argument doth follow the better Reply because of the similitude of instances as the answerer speaketh or rather because it is a minore ad maius from the lesse to the greater This inequality of examples rather strenghtneth then weakeneth the Argument and the cause But let us see his dissimilitudes G. Powel i Pharao thought his priests to professe true religion and diligently to obey him etc But refractary Ministers though professing true religion yet doe obstinatly beyng blynded with superstition refuse to serue God etc Reply As Pharao was in error touchyng the religion obedience of his Priests so are our Prelats touching our refractariness and superstition The obedience of the molested ministers to his Majestie as good as the best Conformitans as hath been sheewed Our obedience to his Majestie is as good as of the best of their syde That mans obedience to a Mayor of a towne or to any other inferior officer of a Prince is alwayes the best that is most agreable to the pleasure of the Prince himselfe In like manner that obedience is best unto Princes that doth best agree with the pleasure of the Prince of Princes and King of Kings To obey the inferior without due regard of the superiors pleasure is but flattery and fawnyng not good obedience So to obey Princes without due regard to our dutie to God For it is more prejudiciall and hurtfull then beneficiall or profitable to such Princes See the words of Samuell to the Israelits 1 Sam. 12.15 25 the example of Ioab in numbring the people by the commaundement of David whereupon followed an exceeding plague Touching the serving of God and his Church in the faith full and diligent function and exercise of the Ministery we are unjustly charged to refuse it for we humbly and earnestly desire it aboue all maintenance and for this desire we are thrust out of our livyng G. Powel 2 The Monks and Fryars were put out against their wills for Sodomi heresie Idolatry etc The refractary Ministers are willingly deprived for obstinate superstition in refusing sincerely to Preach the gospell not beyng conformable to the Christian lawes of our Church and Magistrat The more justly that Monks and Fryars were put out Reply the stronger is the Argument for us to be provided for that are put out unjustly without objection of any such foule crymes to us as for which they were put out Yet it is false that they were put out for heresie or Idolatry though they were heretikes and Idolaters For they were suffered still in their heresie Idolatry as well after their putting out as before Neither also are we willingly deprived any othewise then Marriners willingly throwe their goods over boord into the sea Acts 27.38 to save their liues and the ship the better Of superstition I haue spoken often this now I ad that many account carefulnes to keep a good conscience in smale matters as well as in great to be superstition And in the meane tyme themselues care neither for great nor smal matters any further thē there are lawes of man in that behalfe As for superstition indeed we are silenced and deprived because we will not yeeld to humā Ceremonyes that haue been and are superstitiously abused in the worship of God and of Idols amongst the Papists whatsoever they are amongst us It is also as false that we refuse to be conformable to Christian lawes G. Powel Monks and Fryars could not haue kept their places by submitting themselues But these may by conformyng themselues c. I know no condition of submission offered to Monks etc Touching the rest we thanke you for nothing Reply This is the curtesie of Prelats to make us pay decre for our lyvings even to buye them with sinnyng against God as some of them are sayd to doe with Symony and otherwise But we dare not accept them at the price The rest haue been often answered I haue not such leysure to use tautologies as the answerer seemeth to haue had at the writing of his answer as though he were connyng a lesson by heart in feare of beating for forgetting the same THE 12. ARGVMENT Iames 5.6 Apoc. 5 8 Ezra 6 10 Cenes 20 7 The prayers of all the godly are much to be esteemed Especially of the Ministers of the word Ergo In this behalfe the Ministers now troubled are the
more to be respected Marginall notes G. Powel a True if they continue diligent in their vocation But beyng mēbers rent and cut from the body of the Church of God in this land they are unserviceable for the same What man Haue you unchristened us Are we now Heathen and infidells agayne It may be you will say we are worse Reply lib de Adiaphoris yea you haue already called us Apes Before also in a note we haue been secretly compared to swyne But how then doe you call us your brethren He is certaynly of a strange stocke that hath Schismatikes falss prophets heathens and infidells Apes and swyne to his brethren But it were good that some of the Prelats that made the Canons and doe execute the same did consider in what danger they are by the statute of Excommingment for making and executing Canons contrary to former laws and statuts of this kingdome Heere agayne behold the admirable efficacy of conformity as that wherein consisteth the life of the Church and wherby men are members yea Angels of the Church in England without which men are not so much as members thereof G. Powel b Are they faithfull that fall from their rule of obedience Reply So long as we keepe our selues to Gods word we fall not from our rule or obedience For we acknowledge no other rule or obedience Luther left the rules and obedience of Monks so many other left other rules of Popery Yet I hope you will not deny thē to haue been faithfull or call them schismatikes As for your rule and obedience of Conformity in some perticulars many of us haue not fallen from them First because we never yelded to them 2 Because to leaue Conformity is not to fall that is to goe downward but to arise that is to goe upward Bittter rootes spring up that is come out of the earth frō beneath Heb 12 15 prov 15 24 Iames 1.17 But the way of life is on high and every good and perfect gift commeth from aboue They that haue left conformity are more ashamed and greived for having been Conformable then for leavyng it though they pay sweetly for it Further answer to the 12. Argument G. Powel 1 Neither are the prayers of Schismatiks much to be regarded 2 Neither will the Honorable court of Parliamēt altogether neglect the refractary ministers 3 Nether can the refractary ministers in charity but pray for the high court yea in case they did not satisfie their desire This answer consisteth of 3 parts according as I haue noted the same Concernyng the first Reply it is not much to be denyed if men be schismatikes indeed and not only in name Therefore touchyng that and the second neither the answerer nor all the Prelats in the world shall ever proue us schismatikes and refractaryes as they unjustly terme us For the third albeit the High Court of Parliament would doe nothing in our behalfe yet we will say with Samuell 1 Samuell 12 13 Genes 20 7 Ezra 6 10 God forbid that we should sinne against the Lord and cease praying for them Notwithstanding it cannot be denyed but that the more justice and kindnes we shall receiue from them or by them either at this Session or at any other heerafter the more we should be both bound and quickened to pray for them But the zeale of the Parliament in doeyng so much all ready for us as they haue doone is worthy our remēbrance whilst we liue Though it haue not that successe presently that we haue desired yet we know not what it may haue in tyme upon further consideration thereof by his most excellent Majesty and by his wise and most Honorable Counsell No seed groweth presently yea the best seed lyeth longest in ground for the most part before it appeare especially before it yeeld fruit agayne That that is doone also shall be a good evidence for us and for the equity of our cause as also against the Prelats to all posteritie whatsoever reproches and other indignityes in the meane time we susteyne eyther by their speeches or by their vnjust writyng vpon record against us Contradiction or cōtrarietie But here is further to be noted the contradiction or at the least the contrariety of this answerer even in this very part of his answer For in the first parte therof he sayth the prayers of Schismatikes are not much to be regarded Where his meaning by comparyng these words with other his termes of being rent cut of frō the Church obstinat wilfull etc must needes be that our prayers are of no regard In the third parte notwithstanding he sayth that we ought to pray for the Parliament though they should doe nothing for us accordyng to our desire Ought we to doe that which is of no regard of no use of no benefite to no purpose math 12 23 Shall not we giue account of every idle word much more of every idle prayer Yea are not the prayers of all obstinat wilfull impudent schismaticall and seditious persons and of all lyers and false Prophets such as he hath often called vs to be abominatiō to the Lord prov 15 8 How then are we bound to pray for the Parliament or for any other Are we bound to doe that tnat is sinne and wherof we shall giue an account 2 If they had still made conscience of their duety in their Ministery Reply their prayers had been much more effectuall Behold what conscience these men make of subscription Cross surplice conformity G. Powel and other perticular obedience that make no conscience of preachyng yea not of commyng to their flockes once in a yeare yea some not once in 3. or 4. yeares Is it not strange also that surplice and cross should ad such efficacie to prayers How merry then would it be with England if all men in all places were forced to were a red blue greene white or yellow cross vpon their hats sleeues or brests etc And if every man woman and child might never pray privatly or publikely but in a surplice Further I pray God that such as make so light account of our prayers for them doe not by their hard dealyngs with us force us to cry for help from God against them and then feele the virtue and efficacy of our prayers in this behalfe to their greife For shall not God aveng his elect which cry day and night unto him Luc 10 7 yea though he suffer long for them I tell you he will aveng them quickly Let not this be lightly thought on In the meane tyme also how vilesoever our prayers are in their judgements yet let this answerer all other our greatest adversaryes understand that they are not so in the sense feeling of those mercyes that they doe dayly enjoye as well by our prayers as by their owne For our consciences bearing witnes our prayers are of faith and in truth loue we doubt
not but that the King and whole kingdome yea our greatest adversaryes doe dayly fare the better by them And this I feare would too soone appeare if they should or could suspend us from praying as they haue doone from preaching The 13 Argument We must pray the Lord of the harvest Math 9 23 38 to thrust forth laborers into the harvest God will not haue men onely to pray but also to use other meanes Ergo The High Court of Parliament must be the more carefull to provide what they may that godly and paynfull Ministers whose labours God hath already blessed may not by head and sholders be thrust out of the Church as they are There is but one marginall note upon this Argument which hath been often answered So also hath all his other answer to the said Argument touching the sowyng of the tares of sedition schisme faction and disturbing of the peace All which doe rather be long to them that teach that a true justifiyng faith may be lost that there is no certeinty of Salvation that plead for ignorance and an ignorant Ministery the mother of rebellion and treason and all other sinnes against God man and other such like things THE 14. ARGVMENT Luc 9 26 In the time of persecution men ought not to be ashamed of the word of Christ but to confesse and speake for the same Ergo. They ought much more so to doe in the tyme of peace in a kingdome and to a King and State professing the gospell Marginall notes G. Powel a As if that Disciplinarian giddines were Gods word Reply Though you take your pleasure of us yet take heed take heed you blaspheme not the ordinances of Christ Such certainly are litle better thē mad men who impute giddines to the Discipline of Christ commaunded to be kept without spot and unrebukeable untill his appearing 1 Tim 6 13 It is no newe thing for them that stands for Gods truth to be accounted mad men 2 King 9 11 Acts 26.24 Luc 15 17 or besides themselues and in these dayes Protestants scared out of their wits But let them that now offend this way and especially that account Gods ordinances to be giddines let them I say repent and come to themselues lest the Lord strike them with a farre worse spirit of giddines then yet they haue which will not be cast out by any meanes no not by prayer and fasting G. Powel b Here againe the Supplicants confesse that we professe Christ and his word Why doe they exclame then If you so call it we do exclame as we doe Reply that we may professe Christ and his word more sincerely without any traditions of men in Gods worship The Churches of Ephesus Pergamus and Thyatira professed Christ and his word and had many excellent things in them yet our Saviour himselfe exclameth and calleth them to reformation of the few thinges amisse with them So did Paule to the Churches of Corinth and Galatia G. Powel c Feare and weaknes forsooth because they will not partake with Schismatikes Let scoffers and mockers take heede Reply Psal 2.4 prov 1 26 that he that dwelleth in the heaven laugh not yea that the Lord haue them not in derision yea least he laugh at their destruction and mocke when their feare commeth etc. Further answer to the 14. Argument G. Powel The argument followeth not for refractary Ministers are neither Christ nor his word as hath been declared before It hath indeed been sayd before but by whom when Reply or where hath it been declared and proved Which of us hath ever sayde that we are Christ or his word As the Church is called Christ 1. Cor. 12.12 so both the Ministers all true beleevers are the Ministers of Christ Lastly they that striue against humane Ceremonyes in Gods worship and for the ordinances onely of Christ Iesus doe striue also for Christ and his word THE 15. ARGVMENT As the Parliament hath had a godly care of severity for the better converting of the Papists so likewise there ought to be the like godly care for their good instruction by such able Ministers as against whom they may haue no iust exception Ergo. In this respect the Parliament ought to doe the more for the liberty of the Ministers suspended etc. I defferr the reply to all the marginall notes to the further answer following G. Powel As if there were not able Ministers inough in both Vniversities in other partes of the kingdome if competent mayntenance might be procured for them for every Congregation without the small hand full of schismaticall Ministers Reply Part of this hath been answered before yet to help the answerers memory if it be weake I tell him agayne that if we had tentymes as many more as there are either in the universities or else where there would be use of them all The Lords harvest is great the day is farr spent the laborers that are are some so weake some such loyterers and some so unskilfull that they make no cleane worke but leaue as much behind them as they gather and carry before them Besides is it a small matter for the Minister to be acquainted with the people and the people with the Minister As likewise for the Minister to affect the people and the people the Minister Agayne are all fit to teach to governe the people that are learned and good schollers in the Vniversity It hath been justly blamed by learned wryters of our side that some Papists haue blasphemously called the scriptures a nose of waxe a shipmans hose But now would God it were not so made in open pulpit by some great schollers that are accounted great divines Yea it is lamētable that in some great places if not in the greatest men preach of the scriptures and yet never interpret the scripture wherof they preach yea that indeed so hammer the scripture as though it were a peece of mettall the which they might worke or cast into what forme themselues best liked who also make the Pulpite a place rather to sheew their owne witt wherby to win credit and prayse to themselues perhaps also to get a Bishopprike in the end then faithfully to deliver the message of God wherby to glorifie God and either to winne soules unto him or to confirme and further in godlines those that are already wonne Lastly who rather playe with the scripture as if it were some gue gawe then wisely handle the same As for competent maintenance I remember what one that hath now turned his coate and every where almost chafeth at vs like a Cooke I remember I say what he once answered a Bishop being asked where he would haue sufficient maintenance for preachers in every Congregation A good thong quoth he might be cut out of your hyde As also what Iohn Baptist sayd unto the people Luc 3 11 He that hath two coates let him part with him that hath
done by the other Let all Prelats that pleade more stoutly for superstitious Romish raggs then they doe duly regard Gods holy ordinances let such Prelats rather take heede that such things as are here threatned to the Parliament by the answerer doe not be fall unto them Whereas the answerer in his answer to the â—4 supposed Argument betwixt the third and the first reckoneth us up in the bitternes of his spirit with all Schismatikes Heretikes Papists Athists murtherers theues cutpurses etc therin he sheeweth his brotherly loue and kindnes towards us Esa 53 12 Mar 15 27. and how well he spareth us But sith Christ Iesus was couÌ„ted among the wicked yea crucified betwixt two theeues yea and had also a murderer preferred before him why should we his servants wretched men and great sinners be greeved or ashamed thus to be reckoÌ„ed with such vile persons 2 Tim 2.12 Iohn 17.24 Yea rather we may the more comfort our selues because if we suffer with him we are the better assured that we shall reigne with him who hath prayed the Father that we may be with him even where he is to behold his glory G. Powel For Siserae was a speciall enimy of the children of Israel Iudges 4.2 The instance of Iaeel is altogether different and Church of God but the ornaments the Supplicants speake of are the good creatures of God having no hurt at all in them Was not Sisera also the creature of God Reply and in that respect may it not be sayd that he had no evill in him And is not the Pope also an enimy to the people and Church of God as well as Sysera was Yea is he not much more in as much as he is enimy to their spirituall state and everlasting salvation Moreover touching the ornaments of Popery mentioned in the Argument doe we speake of them as they were the creatures of God or as they were and are still by many Papists abused to Idolatry What doth the answerer say for them that might not haue been sayd for the covering of the images of silver Isa 30 22 which the Iewes that should truely repent of Idolatry were to pollute that is to account as thinges polluted and for the rich ornaments of the images of gold which also they were to cast away as a menstrous cloth Sophistry and with great disdayne to say unto it get thee hence What fallacy this is the answerer knoweth G. Powel Neyther were the Popish Priests ever decked with our ornameÌ„ts neither are they now Neither were our ornaments ever worshipped or abused to Idolatry eyther are they yet Neyther if they had been is it absolutly necessary to destroy the substance of them etc but only to take away the abuse and to restore the right use The reasons are sheewed chap 11 De adiap horis Are you sure their is never a Surplice now in England Reply that was abused to Idolatry publikely in Queene Maryes time or secretly sithens that tyme If it be true of surplices are you sure it is true of all Coapes Nay rather I scarse thinke that there is not any Coape now that was not in the time of Popery Besides haue you forgotten the distinction of idem specie and idem numero Ahas sent not the same Alter to Ierusalem that was at Damascus 2 Kings 16 10 but onely commanded the like thereof to be made By this reason also we may erect new images in Churches as some all ready are in some places and say that these images were never worshipped or abused Exceter Here therfore behold agaiÌ„e your sophistry Sophistry Touchyng the substance of things abused to Idolatry we urge not the destroying thereof neyther doe we deny the restoring of them to any good civill or naturall use from which they were first taken and imployed to Idolatry But we deny that we ought to haue any such honorable use as to haue any place in the service of God Deut 12.31 who expresly forbiddeth to be so worshipped I understand this of such thinges as God hath not commanded or wherof there is no necessary use Such are the ornaments in question The objections against this are plentifully answered in other books The 11. chapiter of your booke wherunto you referre us is not worth the reading of a learned man It conteyneth objections of your owne making not of ours Which of us was ever so mad as to say que ad Dei gloriam fiunt iis colitur Deus For are not the dutyes of the second table performed for the glory of God Is God worshipped by them This is to confound both the tables Who ever also saide Quicquid fit ex fide et Deo placet whatsoever is done of faith and pleaseth God is the worship of God So our eating drinking and whatsoever else we doe shall be the worship of God I wonder you blushed not to impute such thinges unto us and to cast your owne shame upon us The third objection indeede in that chapter touching the proposition is in part yet not wholly ours But your answer thereunto maketh more for us then against us as a child that hath well learned the principles of religion might easily shew But I for beare answer of them and leaue them to other to shew your childish weaknes there in and in that whole booke By the sight wherof I praye God you may see what it is to write against the truth In other things you haue written well and we thanke God for your paynes but in these causes your arguments are like fagots of thornes full of prickes without substance bound with bonds of strawe which by the fire of Gods truth are quickly burnt up though for a time they fill agreat roome and seeme to make a great blaze yea they are like to ignis fatuus which terrifieth simple men as if it were a spirit but is in truth but a litle fire of certeyne slymie exhalations at the most they are but like a Comet or blazing starr which though it seeme to ignorant men to be aboue in the starrie heavens with the fixed starres yet for all that is but in the highest region of the ayre and at the last is dissolved into winds Thus much for reply to the 17. Argument yea to all For to the conclusion of all which the Notary answerer unaptly call a distinct Argument their is nothing answered requyring any further reply then hath been already made This therefore shall suffice for defence of the former Arguments In the answer whereof though perhaps there be the more scoffes reproches cavils bitter speeches and uncharitable collections to haue provoked us unto the like that thereby some further advantage might haue been ministred unto them against our cause and against our selues yet as the author of the argumeÌ„ts used not any such word to provoke them so I thought good to walke in the like stepes of modestie that the defence of the Arguments
them Touching the answer to the consequence of the former Argument that the Pastors should rather returne to their people and comfort them obeying the wholsome ordinances of the Church etc I answer that we will so doe when such ordlnances are proved by Gods word to be wholsome THE 7 ARGVMENT All true Ministers 2 king 2 12 13.14 Prov. 3.16 psal 45.12 1 Sam. 4 21 Ephes 6. 5 Isai 2 4 and 65 25 2 chron 14 14 17.10 27.6 are as the Chariots and horsmen of those kingdomes where they are In the Ministery of the gospell and sincere worship of God therin commended consisteth the glory of Kings and kingdomes So also the peace yea also their whole outward prosperity And the contempt of the gospell and of the sincere worship of God procureth all outwarde calamityes of Kings and Kingdomes Ergo As men wil be faithfull to Kings and Kingdomes so they must maynteyne the sincere Ministery and Ministers of the gospell and therfore speake for them The Marginall Notes G. Powel a Is a handfull of refractary ministers the safety of the whole land 1 Cosmographers in some Maps describe a bird called a Ruc of such bignes that she taketh vp an Elephant with her talants very high into the ayre Reply and then letteth him fall to be broken and bruised for her to feed on It seemeth this Notary hath an hand as large as the foote or tallants of this bird sith he maketh but an handfull of all the Ministers suspended deprived or like so to be for these matters now in question Secondly As the loss of one of his Majesties shipps Royall or of one of his strongest holdes or of one of his most worthy warriors may be sayde to weaken the whole Kingdome especially in the time of great warre and as the cutting in sunder of one principall post or beame or piller of an house doth weaken the whole house so and much more is the losse cutting of of so many worthy ministers of the gospell the weakenyng of the whole land For is not Satan and are not Papists and all the rest of Satans army so much the more strenghtned 2 king 2 15 and 9.1 Elia was but one and accounted as we are a troubler of Israell and left Elisha behind him and yet the Argument telleth you how they were accoūted though in their tyme there were many other Prophets O therefore that the meanest able and godly Minister might not be lightly regarded in these last and dangerous tymes Howsoever they are esteemed of by the world yet they are of more price then great riches G. Powel b As if God never had defended any Pagan in case of innocency and justice etc c Outward prosperity consisteth in pure worship They speake so profoundly as an intelligent and sensible man cannot understand them As if the ungodly florished not ofttymes as a greene bay tree and the outward prospeity of the Persians and Romanes did not surpasse the meane estate of the Iewes the true Church of God Reply If there had been no name set to this booke these two notes and many other the like might haue brought it in suspition to haue been penned by some professed Atheist For who almost but smelling of religion would haue objected such things Yea who that had but tasted of logike would haue denyed the conclusion not regarding the proofes and premises The wicked doe indeed some times in joye outward prosperity either to molifie their owne hearts or to harden them the more to be the fitter for Gods judgmentes or to be scourges of God unto other or to make them the more in excusable yet they haue no assurance either of gettyng or of holdyng such prosperity Neyther can they haue any more comfort thereby then the godly may haue discomforte by their afflictions because indeed they haue no intrest thervnto from God It is also a shamefull untruth that the Persians Romans or any other in outward prosperity excelled the Iewes so long as the Iewes regarded the word honored the Prophets and other Ministers thereof and maynteyned the pure worship of God All that while they were even in outward things the glory of all the world What people ever had the like victoryes What Nation for all prosperity was comparable to Israell in the dayes of Salomon and to the Iewes afterward psal 48 2 87 2 12 Lamēt 1 1 and 2 1 in the time of many other Kings Of what Citie are so glorious things ever written as of Ierusalem Read the places in the margine Indeed after that they contemned the word of the Lord abused his prophets and neglected God his worship and that especially through the fault of their Preists etc. then the Lord forsaking them made their enimyes the cheife etc. Lament 1 5 The other notes upon this Argument I passe by as either answered before or being of no moment Further answer to the 7 Argument G. Powel VVhat can a sensible man make of this enthymem The refractary ministers are the safety of the whole land Ergo the Court of Parliament must speake for the gospell Reply The title refractary omitted he is a sensles man that can make nothing of that enthymem especially these ministers pleaded for being proved true and faithfull For though the gospell and Ministers thereof be distinct yet he that speaketh for one speaketh for both and he that speaketh for both speaketh for the land the safety wherof dependeth upon both But marke heere agayne the answerers sophistry Sophistry For wheras the author saith that the Parliament is to speake for the gospell Ministery thereof the answerer taketh the word gospell and altogeather leaveth out the other words and the ministery thereof G. Powel There are thowsandes of faithfull Ministers besids them in this kingdome that are Charets and horsemen etc. Ministers are therfore termed Charets and horsemen because they are Gods instruments for gathering of the Saincts Ergo The antecedent is improbable if not false Againe these men refuse their Ministery wherfore they cannot be called charets yea so farre are they from being the safety that would God they were not the sores of the Church and sowers of sedition I meane schisme and faction Reply As there are some other faithfull Ministers so there are not many thousands that are able much lesse faithfull besides us Generally throughout the land there are Sixe reading ministers for one preacher at the least by practis For there are some that are licensed to preach that never did are or were able to preach Many also that can preach seledome doe Preach Some also that doe preach and that often doe it so Popishly or otherwise so corruptly so foolishly and ridiculously to make sporte rather then to edifie so vaynly and unprofitably that it were better to hold their peace then so to preach That Ministers are called charets and horsmen for gathering the Saints viz out of the power