Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
truth_n believe_v true_a word_n 6,623 5 4.5200 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A45823 A contention for truth: or, an impartial account, of two several disputations The one being on Munday, the 12th. of Feb. And the other on Munday, the 26. of the same month, in the year 1671. Between Mr. Danson of the one party, and Mr. Ives on the other, upon this question (viz) whether the doctrine of some true believers, falling away totally and finally from grace, be true or no? Published to prevent mistakes, and false reports, concerning the said conferences. By a lover of truth and peace. Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674. 1672 (1672) Wing I1095A; ESTC R222598 83,987 220

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character_n in_o heb._n 6._o be_v apply_v to_o any_o but_o true_a believer_n now_o that_o be_v deny_v and_o you_o tell_v i_o you_o will_v not_o undertake_v the_o whole_a but_o you_o make_v no_o doubt_n to_o show_v it_o in_o part_n if_o not_o in_o the_o whole_a give_v i_o therefore_o the_o first_o mr._n danson_n here_o be_v a_o plain_a place_n john_n 1.7_o that_o be_v the_o true_a light_n which_o light_v every_o man_n that_o come_v into_o the_o world_n mr._n ives_n this_o speak_v of_o such_o a_o light_n as_o light_v every_o man_n that_o come_v into_o the_o world_n either_o let_v we_o now_o be_v ingenious_a or_o let_v we_o all_o be_v quaker_n for_o the_o truth_n be_v if_o you_o believe_v all_o man_n in_o the_o world_n be_v enlighten_v with_o the_o light_n of_o christ_n i_o can_v understand_v how_o you_o or_o any_o that_o give_v such_o a_o sense_n of_o that_o text_n shall_v differ_v from_o their_o notion_n about_o the_o light_n within_o they_o so_o much_o speak_v of_o you_o be_v 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of_o the_o truth_n but_o not_o the_o whole_a truth_n i_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o take_v the_o word_n as_o our_o translation_n render_v they_o and_o according_a to_o the_o vulgar_a account_n of_o the_o exposition_n we_o affirm_v the_o thing_n but_o then_o we_o also_o affirm_v that_o there_o be_v no_o absurdity_n in_o it_o that_o paul_n shall_v use_v caution_n to_o prevent_v that_o which_o he_o know_v be_v impossible_a to_o come_v to_o pass_v and_o i_o also_o tell_v you_o that_o the_o word_n be_v capable_a of_o another_o sense_n i_o choose_v rather_o to_o stick_v to_o the_o last_o mr._n ives_n you_o tell_v i_o that_o the_o last_o be_v the_o true_a sense_n but_o come_v sir_n do_v any_o thing_n that_o will_v conclude_v the_o question_n if_o you_o will_v not_o i_o shall_v not_o answer_v you_o mr._n danson_n i_o will_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v not_o needless_a to_o give_v caution_n nor_o to_o make_v use_n of_o caution_n to_o prevent_v that_o which_o yet_o notwithstanding_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v or_o to_o come_v to_o pass_v mr._n ives_n that_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o question_n you_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o if_o you_o will_v not_o conclude_v that_o in_o your_o syllogism_n i_o will_v not_o dispute_v for_o i_o be_o now_o to_o dispute_v this_o question_n with_o you_o whether_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o i_o say_v some_o may_v you_o say_v none_o can_v do_v you_o not_o mr._n danson_n yes_o mr._n ives_n prove_v it_o then_o mr._n danson_n if_o some_o true_a believer_n may_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n then_o we_o may_v suppose_v that_o some_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o but_o no_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n ergo_fw-la no_o true_a believer_n can_v mr._n ives_n this_o be_v a_o false_a syllogism_n for_o mr._n danson_n say_v if_o some_o may_v fall_v than_o some_o have_v but_o none_o have_v ergo_fw-la none_n can_v and_o though_o the_o minor_a proposition_n may_v be_v detect_v if_o the_o conclusion_n bid_v be_v right_o infer_v from_o the_o premise_n yet_o however_o the_o consequence_n of_o the_o major_n be_v false_a therefore_o i_o deny_v your_o major_n mr._n danson_n i_o argue_v upon_o your_o own_o ground_n mr._n ives_n i_o deny_v the_o major_a do_v you_o prove_v it_o if_o you_o can_v upon_o what_o ground_n you_o will_v so_o it_o be_v prove_v upon_o a_o good_a ground_n i_o pass_v not_o mr._n danson_n whatever_o be_v potential_a have_v be_v do_v mr._n ives_n that_o be_v false_a but_o prove_v your_o major_a proposition_n for_o that_o be_v the_o thing_n deny_v and_o you_o beg_v when_o you_o shall_v dig_v a_o thing_n may_v be_v possible_a to_o be_v do_v though_o no_o body_n have_v do_v it_o therefore_o throw_v up_o your_o argument_n and_o say_v you_o can_v prove_v it_o or_o else_o prove_v that_o whatever_o have_v not_o be_v do_v be_v impossible_a to_o be_v do_v mr._n danson_n i_o argue_v upon_o yourself_o mr._n ives_n if_o you_o beg_v of_o i_o i_o will_v give_v you_o nothing_o i_o say_v prove_v your_o major_a proposition_n if_o you_o can_v mr._n danson_n i_o say_v i_o can_v prove_v it_o here_o mr._n danson_n confess_v he_o can_v prove_v his_o argument_n mr._n ives_n he_o that_o will_v use_v a_o medium_n to_o prove_v a_o argument_n must_v prove_v his_o medium_n mr._n danson_n i_o will_v prove_v then_o by_o a_o new_a argument_n mr._n ives_n come_v then_o mr._n danson_n if_o some_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n they_o be_v either_o those_o in_o the_o 2_o pet._n 2.19.20_o or_o heb._n 6.6_o that_o be_v some_o of_o those_o example_n but_o they_o be_v no_o example_n of_o person_n fall_v away_o from_o grace_n ergo_fw-la no_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n mr._n ives_n i_o deny_v the_o whole_a argument_n for_o you_o do_v not_o conclude_v right_o you_o must_v conclude_v ergo._n then_o if_o none_o have_v fall_v none_o can_v fall_v mr._n danson_n they_o be_v your_o confession_n therefore_o that_o be_v a_o proof_n mr._n ives_n i_o desire_v this_o gentleman_n to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n and_o he_o have_v no_o way_n to_o prove_v it_o but_o say_v i_o confess_v it_o when_o all_o this_o while_n i_o have_v be_v dispute_v against_o it_o mr._n danson_n these_o be_v the_o instance_n you_o urge_v of_o true_a believer_n fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n mr._n ives_n prove_v your_o major_n i_o say_v mr._n danson_n i_o here_o prove_v it_o if_o that_o the_o character_n that_o be_v give_v in_o these_o text_n that_o do_v carry_v the_o great_a likely_a hood_n of_o true_a believer_n fall_v away_o do_v not_o prove_v it_o then_o they_o can_v fall_v away_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo._n mr._n ives_n sir_n i_o deny_v this_o argument_n for_o it_o do_v not_o conclude_v the_o major_a that_o be_v deny_v in_o the_o former_a argument_n either_o prove_v that_o or_o else_o go_v back_o to_o the_o question_n and_o prove_v by_o some_o other_o text_n of_o scripture_n or_o argument_n and_o so_o conclude_v ergo_fw-la it_o be_v possible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o mr._n danson_n i_o appeal_v to_o all_o person_n if_o a_o retortion_n of_o a_o argument_n be_v not_o according_a to_o all_o the_o law_n of_o disputation_n mr._n ives_n i_o confess_v it_o retortion_n be_v good_a when_o you_o be_v respondent_fw-la that_o be_v your_o business_n last_o time_n but_o now_o you_o be_v to_o give_v i_o a_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o i_o do_v the_o last_o time_n endeavour_v as_o well_o as_o i_o can_v to_o give_v mr._n danson_n the_o best_a 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which_o be_v that_o if_o any_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o that_o it_o be_v true_a from_o those_o two_o text_n heb._n 6.2_o pet._n 2._o or_o else_o that_o it_o be_v impossible_a they_o can_v fall_v away_o mr._n danson_n i_o will_v prove_v your_o argument_n erroneous_a mr._n ives_n prove_v it_o or_o else_o prove_v your_o last_o consequence_n deny_v or_o go_v back_o to_o the_o consequence_n of_o the_o former_a argument_n which_o be_v not_o yet_o conclude_v which_o be_v this_o that_o if_o there_o be_v no_o example_n of_o any_o true_a believer_n fall_v away_o than_o none_o can_v fall_v away_o mr._n danson_n if_o there_o be_v any_o example_n of_o the_o fall_v away_o of_o true_a believer_n they_o be_v some_o of_o they_o that_o you_o allege_v mr._n ives_n that_o do_v not_o follow_v but_o i_o appeal_v to_o all_o the_o people_n whether_o this_o be_v any_o proof_n of_o what_o you_o shall_v prove_v mr._n danson_n if_o that_o some_o true_a believer_n may_v fall_v away_o or_o if_o there_o be_v any_o example_n of_o any_o true_a believer_n fall_v away_o they_o be_v either_o those_o that_o you_o allege_v or_o some_o other_o but_o neither_o they_o nor_o no_o other_o be_v example_n of_o true_a believer_n fall_v away_o therefore_o mr._n ives_n therefore_o what_o mr._n danson_n therefore_o then_o there_o be_v no_o example_n mr._n ives_n be_v that_o the_o question_n our_o question_n be_v this_o whether_o it_o be_v possible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o and_o not_o whether_o any_o of_o they_o have_v fall_v away_o for_o if_o there_o have_v not_o any_o of_o they_o fall_v away_o yet_o it_o be_v possible_a they_o may_v
the_o 19_o page_n of_o his_o treatise_n of_o the_o saint_n perseverance_n he_o say_v that_o this_o doctrine_n do_v not_o destroy_v all_o christian_a comfort_n but_o a_o life_n of_o much_o christian_a comfort_n may_v be_v have_v without_o assurance_n of_o salvation_n he_o mean_v in_o the_o sense_n contend_v for_o which_o say_v he_o i_o prove_v from_o adam_n comfort_n in_o innocency_n doubtless_o the_o possibility_n of_o his_o fall_n do_v not_o destroy_v his_o comfort_n while_o he_o stand_v second_o it_o be_v unreasonable_a and_o uncharitable_a to_o think_v that_o the_o ancient_a church_n that_o differ_v in_o this_o point_n have_v no_o christian_a peace_n and_o that_o such_o holy_a man_n as_o augustin_n and_o luther_n and_o multitude_n more_o be_v deprive_v of_o christian_a peace_n who_o have_v manifest_v so_o great_a confidence_n and_o joy_n both_o in_o their_o life_n and_o writing_n three_o if_o there_o be_v no_o joy_n nor_o peace_n except_o we_o receive_v it_o from_o the_o certainty_n of_o our_o perseverance_n than_o say_v he_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o exceed_v few_o of_o those_o that_o hold_v the_o perseverance_n of_o all_o the_o justify_v have_v joy_n or_o peace_n in_o believe_v four_o i_o argue_v a_o pari_fw-la there_o be_v no_o son_n of_o the_o wise_a and_o constant_a father_n that_o be_v certain_a he_o shall_v persevere_v in_o the_o love_n and_o favour_n of_o his_o parent_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v not_o fall_v into_o their_o very_a hatred_n and_o be_v disinherit_v by_o they_o yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o therefore_o all_o child_n shall_v uncomfortable_o vex_v themselves_o with_o fear_n lest_o their_o parent_n shall_v hate_v they_o or_o disinherit_v they_o yea_o or_o that_o no_o son_n can_v from_o hence_o take_v comfort_n in_o his_o father_n love_n and_o there_o be_v no_o man_n of_o the_o great_a holiness_n be_v certain_a he_o shall_v not_o fall_v into_o some_o fowl_n sin_n this_o be_v acknowledge_v by_o all_o he_o be_v not_o certain_a but_o he_o may_v be_v drink_v as_o noah_n be_v or_o incestuous_a as_o lot_n be_v commit_v adultery_n and_o murder_n as_o david_n do_v deny_v christ_n as_o peter_n do_v and_o if_o you_o be_v sure_a you_o shall_v fall_v thus_o will_v it_o not_o even_o break_v your_o heart_n but_o what_o must_v all_o christian_n live_v in_o doubt_n and_o he_o uncomfortable_a because_o of_o this_o you_o be_v not_o certain_a but_o you_o may_v for_o such_o capital_a crime_n be_v hang_v at_o a_o gallow_n and_o be_v make_v a_o public_a example_n to_o the_o world_n yet_o i_o hope_v we_o may_v live_v comfortable_o for_o all_o that_o and_o need_v not_o trouble_v ourselves_o with_o such_o fear_n save_v only_o by_o necessary_a caution_n to_o prevent_v the_o evil_a the_o same_o ground_n therefore_o that_o may_v give_v you_o comfort_n against_o the_o fear_n of_o such_o scandalous_a sin_n may_v give_v they_o comfort_v concern_v their_o salvation_n who_o either_o believe_v not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o perseverance_n of_o the_o saint_n or_o be_v not_o certain_a of_o their_o own_o sanctification_n page_n 22_o 23._o especial_o as_o he_o observe_v page_n 22._o if_o we_o consider_v the_o goodness_n of_o god_n nature_n his_o common_a mercy_n to_o mankind_n the_o fullness_n and_o freeness_n of_o his_o grace_n in_o christ_n the_o experience_n of_o his_o love_n both_o in_o common_a and_o special_a mercy_n which_o abundance_n of_o comfortable_a passage_n in_o scripture_n all_o these_o may_v do_v much_o to_o the_o support_n and_o comfort_n of_o the_o soul_n against_o apostasy_n think_v there_o have_v be_v no_o absolute_a promise_n make_v of_o the_o final_a perseverance_n of_o all_o the_o justify_v etc._n etc._n but_o what_o be_v these_o to_o the_o absurdity_n that_o follow_v upon_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o impossibility_n of_o true_a believer_n fall_v final_o and_o that_o will_v appear_v if_o we_o consider_v how_o much_o it_o border_n upon_o antomiavism_n and_o the_o tendency_n of_o it_o to_o promote_v ranterism_n that_o it_o border_n upon_o antomianism_n and_o at_o some_o turn_n strike_v hand_n with_o it_o will_v appear_v if_o we_o do_v consider_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o as_o we_o find_v they_o print_v and_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n though_o possible_o by_o man_n otherwise_o very_o godly_a and_o learned_a i_o shall_v instead_o of_o many_o that_o write_v for_o antinomianism_n only_o mention_v dr._n crisp_n i_o begin_v with_o some_o passage_n in_o his_o sermon_n page_n 174_o 175._o let_v i_o speak_v free_o say_v he_o and_o in_o so_o do_v tell_v you_o that_o the_o lord_n have_v no_o more_o to_o lay_v to_o the_o charge_n of_o a_o elect_a person_n in_o the_o height_n of_o iniquity_n and_o in_o the_o excess_n of_o riot_n and_o commit_v all_o the_o abomination_n that_o can_v be_v commit_v i_o say_v when_o a_o elect_a person_n run_v such_o a_o course_n the_o lord_n have_v no_o more_o to_o lay_v to_o the_o charge_n of_o that_o person_n then_o to_o the_o charge_n of_o a_o believer_n nay_o then_o to_o the_o charge_n of_o a_o saint_n triumphant_a in_o glory_n and_o in_o his_o sermon_n call_v christ_n the_o way_n pag._n 23_o 24._o i_o give_v this_o hint_n say_v he_o by_o the_o way_n when_o as_o i_o speak_v of_o the_o power_n of_o christ_n subdue_a sin_n because_o from_o the_o power_n of_o it_o in_o man_n they_o be_v apt_a to_o think_v their_o peace_n depend_v upon_o their_o subdue_a of_o sin_n if_o their_o sin_n be_v subdue_v then_o they_o think_v they_o may_v have_v peace_n and_o if_o they_o can_v be_v subdue_v than_o no_o peace_n let_v christ_n have_v his_o due_n it_o be_v he_o alone_o that_o speak_v peace_n pag._n 113_o what_o ado_n be_v here_o with_o man_n about_o break_v their_o heart_n and_o forsake_v their_o sin_n pag._n 157._o there_o be_v a_o comfortable_a difference_n between_o the_o new_a covenant_n and_o all_o other_o covenant_n the_o condition_n in_o the_o other_o covenant_n be_v such_o that_o in_o case_n man_n do_v fail_v to_o perform_v his_o condition_n the_o covenant_n be_v break_v and_o god_n be_v free_a from_o give_v life_n but_o in_o the_o new_a covenant_n man_n be_v tie_v to_o no_o condition_n that_o he_o must_v perform_v and_o that_o if_o he_o do_v not_o perform_v it_o will_v make_v the_o covenant_n void_a to_o he_o pag._n 189_o as_o the_o father_n look_v for_o nothing_o of_o man_n to_o partake_v of_o christ_n so_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o man_n though_o never_o so_o vile_a that_o can_v debar_v a_o person_n from_o a_o part_n in_o this_o christ_n again_o there_o be_v not_o say_v he_o that_o sinfulness_n that_o can_v be_v imagine_v in_o a_o creature_n that_o can_v be_v able_a to_o separate_v or_o debar_v any_o of_o you_o from_o part_n in_o christ_n even_o while_o you_o be_v thus_o sinful_a christ_n may_v be_v your_o christ_n pag._n 192._o man_n say_v he_o think_v righteousness_n bring_v they_o nigh_o ●o_o christ_n beloved_n righteousness_n be_v that_o which_o put_v a_o man_n away_o from_o christ_n stumble_v not_o at_o the_o expression_n it_o be_v the_o choice_a truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n upon_o which_o word_n a_o sober_a man_n cry_v out_o o_o prodigious_a profaneness_n it_o be_v the_o foul_a language_n of_o hell_n hell_n itself_o have_v not_o a_o more_o devilish_a expression_n this_o be_v on_o all_o hand_n allow_v for_o the_o height_n of_o antinomianism_n let_v we_o now_o see_v how_o man_n that_o will_v be_v think_v otherwise_o mind_v agree_v with_o it_o to_o this_o purpose_n see_v mr._n cotton_n treatise_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n with_o mr._n joseph_n caryl_n commendatory_a epistle_n to_o it_o print_v 1671._o pag_n 91._o if_o a_o man_n know_v himself_o under_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n than_o he_o do_v not_o fear_v damnation_n for_o his_o disobedience_n and_o pag._n 94._o a_o christian_n do_v not_o fear_v livorce_n for_o his_o disobedience_n for_o if_o we_o look_v for_o curse_v for_o our_o disobedience_n we_o be_v not_o under_o christ_n but_o under_o the_o law_n but_o he_o that_o be_v free_v from_o the_o covenant_n of_o work_n be_v free_v from_o expect_v salvation_n or_o fear_v damnation_n for_o what_o he_o do_v and_o p._n 96_o 97._o last_o the_o soul_n do_v not_o claim_v his_o right_n unto_o any_o conditional_a promise_n by_o his_o perform_v the_o condition_n nor_o do_v he_o deny_v himself_o the_o blessing_n that_o the_o promise_n may_v reach_v forth_o to_o he_o though_o he_o may_v be_v want_v in_o obedience_n to_o this_o or_o that_o commandment_n this_o be_v the_o freedom_n of_o a_o christian_n soul_n whereas_o another_o man_n if_o he_o have_v keep_v the_o commandment_n and_o perform_v the_o condition_n he_o than_o look_v for_o acceptance_n with_o god_n as_o if_o the_o lord_n have_v make_v this_o promise_n that_o he_o that_o confess_v and_o forsake_v his_o sin_n